I'm a true agnostic, and enjoy the benefits of both sides, without the constraints of either. I enjoy the idea that there may be deeper meanings to our existence without the BS of religion. It's kind of a great thing to not know, but allow yourself to wonder at the mysteries of life and the universe. Atheism seems flat - religions seem stupid.
Want to see the real Garden of Eden? Take a look at my videos. I'm the guy who discovered it. As far as religion goes- it does nothing for you, but Jesus will introduce you to His Father if you'll let Him. God is real and so is lucifer. Both want you, but only 1 loves you- figure it out
I saw a bumper sticker on a truck the other day that read "Relax, God is in control." And I could only think "Really? Then why don't you just let go of the steering wheel?"
I don't think most theists believe that their supernatural beliefs really do reflect reality.
DDA, I felt that experience that you mentioned as a Atheist after I converted from Christianity, ever since, I felt that Atheism is the best choice for me. The 72 virgins part sounds incredibly wrong in my persona. I believe Atheism is correct because it does not threaten you with torment at the same time toss a trinket in your face (hell and heaven).
@superx57 I thought he was particularly respectful in his personal opinion. It's just that, because his opinion is in opposition with your own, I'm assuming, you are offended.
@IanALane I find it interesting you can assume such a thing, considering I never gave a position on this matter. As for content in question, the muslim guy was just curious, but DasAmericanAtheist was kind of going about it the wrong way and behaved rudely in my opinion. I know a lot of atheists who are respectful and don't mind answering questions without being condescending and disrespectful towards those who are unfamiliar with atheism.
@superx57 I thought he was increadibly fair and respectful to everyone. It is you who is acting like the dick for accusing him of something he did not do.
@CorruptBeliefsDivine I wouldn't call, "don't ask dick questions," fair and respectful, but I guess along with different beliefs, we also have different standards.
@CorruptBeliefsDivine "he knows many religious idiots say dumb things for no reason".
That was a very unnecessary generalization, and it just proved that I wasn't wrong for believing that DasAmericanAtheist was condescending and rude.
For the record, I don't think the Muslim guy asked a stupid question at all. He's not an Atheist, so how could he possibly know what it means to be one? I think some people, including DasAmericanAtheist are too self-absorbed to see it that way.
@superx57 Stop acting like a dickhole with your technicalities. Seriously, it's extremely annoying. MOST RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ACT LIKE PRICKS! Anyhow, I wasn't talking about that muslim guy at all! I was talking about idiots who ask stupid questions! Like a Christian who asks an unnecessary question of an Atheist who's just trying to get along. He isn't self-absorbed, I thought he was very nice and clear. Lastly, how can he be rude if he calmly and respectfully made this video?
@CorruptBeliefsDivine Wow...compared to you, DasAmericanAtheist doesn't seem that bad. What I find annoying are your unecessary generalizations. It's interesting that you would say religious people act like pricks, when you're acting like one right now, just because my opinion is different from yours. This isn't about you or your personal experiences with Christians. I'm speaking clearly on context, and if my technicalities annoy you, just don't respond. It's that simple.
LOL, very well said. In all honesty I'm agnostic so I'm not the type to get caught up in all these arguments but I really liked the way you phrased everything. Nicely done.
It's a shame everyone can't just let people believe what they want. Believe in God? Terrific. You don't? Oh well. There's no point in trying to convince anyone of anything
i dont know why people worry about someone being a atheist. to me its like being in a garden and saying theres no garden tender .some people see him first others later.the ones who dont see are not going to be able to believe it,
i can see its all about having a right heart and bearing fruit by the plenty in these spiritual practices.how many people already have this even tho they haven't seen God yet.if there is a devil man hes the one making u hate atheists.and yes i am a Christian
@FriendOregon I don't think he was trying to answer the question; he explained how the question was irrelevant, as people don't believe things based on what the belief has to offer, but whether they think the belief is true. It does indeed offer "freedom from dogma" but that's not why atheists are atheists - it's the lack of belief that any gods exist. I think that was his point, anyway.
if an atheist is right...he dies and gets nothing.....if he's wrong...he's fkd.
Atleast a religious person has a chance when they die....i mean...these atheists are so amusing to me...who do they think they are?
Well, they must be on some higher level of intelligence than Christians,etc...living now and all since passed huh? lol....ridiculous to me...listen up...WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE PROOF! WOULDNT MAKE SENSE IF WE KNEW FOR SURE! ITS CALLED FAITH!
@BellmeisterGeneral - I am a human, a primate, monkey, in the same sense that a duck is a bird. I live on a pale blue dot, a speck of dust to the solar system and "atomic" to a galaxy, and beyond "subatomic" to a single super-cluster let alone the millions or billions that are. I get meaning from life that I am living, there are many deities throughout history which only care if you're a good person, not allegiances, everything you say fails horribly, and caps-lock doesn't make it any better.
your not the first to espouse this modern thinking of self worship...how did you put it? "I get meaning from life that I am living"...what a load!
lol...I'm sorry but it makes me laugh...you give yourself way too much credit there smart guy...who are you to denounce Christianity? That's what is so amusing to me...I know my limitations....but you...your so much smarter than us silly believers and the billions before us....wow, your like a diety!
@BellmGeneral It's pretty much the opposite of self-worship, taken what science has given us, it's a bit more like a humbling acceptance of our finiteness and the universes largess, how is that at all ado with empowerment or self-worship. You're projecting, not everyone must worship something like you do god, or at all, just because you do. I denounced nothing, except your liberal use of ellipsis. Furthermore I am arguing a humble attitude, you're actually arguing knowing all the big questions.
@BellmGeneral BTW, everyone gets meaning from the life they are living, it's a self evident fact, "smartguy." Meaning is more a feeling than it is anything else, and as for the average human it's simply something thats emergent from any cause which touts itself as good for the society culture or species. Meaning isn't something anyone has a monopoly on, though some try their hardest to make it seem that way for there own groups & it's self-evident that other than the mean motif it's subjective.
So where do you get your meaning from - a bronze age book? Just because you heard an argument before doesn't invalidate it.
What does knowing your limitations have to do with it, the commentor you responded to didn't claim to be superhuman, just human. Your'e the one with the arrogance to presume that you know the supreme power. Or rather you admit that you don't know but believe it anyway. Everything changes, religion has and will go on changing, maybe until it is no more. Open your mind.
Tell me, why is beliving by faith (hope) more important to your god than believing thru evidence? Do you go to a doctor for checu-ups, or do you have faith you won't acquire some really nasty disease?
Actually a theist has just as much chance of being in the shit when they die as anyone else, afterall not ALL religions can be right, so yu'd better make sure you choose the right supernatural entity to spend your life worshipping and grovelling.
Anyway if there is a hell then God is immoral and sick, I want nothing to do with Him/Her/It.
Faith is a cop out, instead of just saying you don't know you have to invent some ludicrous invisible power. You get one life, forget the next and LIVE now
way to represent Christ... by cursing at others... that'll get the message across... look u aint helpin Christianity with these statements so plz remain quiet
Brilliant. I often wonder if they're unionizing theology and going for bargaining away their faith. Soon you'll have to have each god post their Pay and Benefits packages. The question often seems to me to follow the thought, "what are the wages of your theology?" Hmmm. That gives me an idea.
BTW, when Brock said you were two ships passing in the night, the image that came to my mind was your ship floating past the wreckage of the titanic at the bottom of the sea.
Atheism offers NOTHING that religion cannot... because it offers NOTHING at all. No atheist 'world-view'... faith... beliefs... dogma... doctrine...
There are books of 'god-stories', from which people run around spouting verses, slogans, bon mots and threats, trying to get others to 'believe'. Those people who are not stupid and gullible enough to fall for such crap get labeled as 'atheists'. That is IT. That is ALL.
The question should be "What can SANITY offer me that religion cannot?"
This is a very intelligent argument, but I can answer the question in more practical terms. If we restrict theism to the three desert dogmas, then I can say that atheism offers non-theism, where said theism offers a perverted version of morality (behavior control through fear of reprisal), a perverted version of truth, justice and fairness, (there is nothing just about 'the fall', 'vicarious salvation, virgin sacrifice on wood posts or return to earth Hitler Jesus). And I'm not a "slave to god"
What does atheism offer? Freedom from the dogmas of religion, and not much else. Transhumanism offers the same freedom from religion, yet adds the prospect of freedom from death, suffering, and other limitations of the human condition. We can create heaven, attain transcendence, and become gods *ourselves*... with technology. Transhumanism is the only true 21st century philosophy, and supercedes all other secular philosophy. Time to upgrade!
@BellmeisterGeneral Suppose that's just about as cognitively salient as worshiping hereto self imagined invisible beings. But how about not worshiping anything at all, feeling humbled or awed in front of what it is we're surrounded by isn't worshiping it, its feeling humbled & awed by the implications of such a vast expanse, simple just what it is in fact, not ado with anything on your knees anthropomorphizing with vocal or ritual praise. Stop with the Freudian projection.
The question that was asked of you, was very stupid. comparing what is given after death to sway a person from one faith to another is just stupid. Im still an atheist, and christians have a "heaven" BUT there is also "hell", muslims have 72 VIRGINS but im gay........crap i mean there is also a "hell" hmm i wonder if there would be 72 gay virgins for gay people? lol
atheism has no rewards after death....well im my eyes there is. NOTHING ahhh i cant wait :)
Thank you for making this video! It's been frustrating to hear theists ask about the perks of atheism, as if they think that the truth isn't worth believing in itself.
At 2:40 you seem to make a sweeping generalization. You claim, if I'm not mistaken, that ALL people of faith came to their beliefs first, then rationalized it with reasons. Do you really think that's fair?
ohkay. that's still a generalization. it's weird for any one person believed something purely for emotional reasons without any intellectual considerations, and i'd say highly unlikely for most of them to do so in such a way. as with all important beliefs, the emotional and rational components are usually mixed.
Yes, but in the video I say that the justifications, the intellectual reasons, are AFTER the choice has already been made.
If there is a christian who decided to become a christian after reading the bible, studying theology and biblical archeology...BEFORE already committing to the religion...I have yet to meet that christian.
How many christians do you know that "reached an informed decision" regarding their religion?
Honestly.
Did you convert to christianity BECAUSE you studied the philosophical arguments, examined the historical evidence, read the bible...did you do all that BEFORE deciding to convert...or did you do all that AFTER converting.
It's rather hard for me to determine whether someone has reached a belief rationally.
I did it partly because of philosophy, partly because of personal and spiritual reasons. there are more dimensions to a belief than just the intellectual ones. and were i to be a Christian before having sophisticated reasons for being one doesn't discount the rationality of my belief now, just as someone who had believed something for less than good reasons may replace his basis for belief with
... replace his basis for belief with something better. what is important to determine the rationality of his beliefs now is why he believes in now, not how he may have originally came to it.
You're fixating a bit. The point of this video isn't why I think most Christians became Christians (and I DO acknowledge that there are people who become Christians for intellectual reasons)...the point is that REGARDLESS of what *I* think, we view our beliefs the same way.
How do you know how "much" an atheist he was, or what type he was? Was he always a propagandist? I was more or less just throwing his name out there.
Even so, that says nothing about C.S. Lewis or even Antony Flew (Thought not a christian, it was still evidence that lead to his belief, not emotional need)
So you do grant that there are atheists who do convert? Well, what TYPE of conversion?
LOL, loved that ending, brilliant delivery. Great points the religious justifying after the fact, but I would add that Atheism doesnt offer anything, because its not a belief, its a non belief. Atheism is the result of a way of thinking, not the determinant. Im an atheist because I require evidence to believe something, because I dont trust people blindly, and because I think the scientific method is the only way of knowing the world, and these qualities have led me to become an atheist.
Neither did I. I was raised Catholic, deconverted because I was going through rebellious teen phase, then converted to Christianity again, and now I'm a Muslim.
But my journey has been intellectual. If anything I see more Atheists deconverting for emotional reasons, but I have no evidence to say that most of them do so.
This is the most thorough answer to the age old question I have ever heard. "Nothing" is the answer Atheists usually answer. But it falls into the trap of the question. The motives for asking the question are what need to be answered.
Asking for the Benefits of Atheism as a means to changing belief, if the same as trying to convince someone of fairies by the benefits that my be derived from belief.
I think your last two thoughts, if brought just a touch closer to one statement, gets at the real reason theists ask this question. I think a lot of them assume they know the answer, that it is exactly that you are running away from god, and they are just trying to set up a gotcha of some kind.
It is a dick question. Not so much because they don't ask it of themselves... but because it isn't really a question at all.
Good video. The question is a silly one, at least taken at face value. Because whether atheism has nothing to offer, or all the greatest promises ever, it doesn't make it more or less true. The Christian, at least, should realize this because, though the Christian worldview does offer ultimate redemption, in the here-and-now it calls for sacrifice, giving to the poor, renouncing worldly possessions etc. Not exactly glitz and glam, "look at this extravagant lifestyle!"
my answer: "not a fucking thing", no promises, no lies, no truth claims, no leaps of faith, no suspention of disbelief, no heaven , no hell, no original sin, no unattainable goals no moral high ground no euphorical fill for the hole in your heart.
thats all i can think of , but you get the picture.
That said, I think its more helpful for Christians to start a question like, what does Christianity offer that they couldn't have w/out it? When Christians discovery there's practical nothing they can't have apart from their faith that they have w/ it... freedom needn't be far behind.
It's kind of silly when Christians ask this. Atheism is a lack of a belief. So the idea that if "offers" something seems misinformed from the start. A more informed version might ask what secular worldviews like humanism offer.
Das, isn't your atheism defined as a lack of belief in god?
If this is true then your atheism cannot reflect reality. A lack of belief in something does not state anything about what you think reality entails.
I am not really trying to make any conclusions from this observation, just pointing out that a lack of belief in a proposition is a psychological state that cannot even reflect reality to begin with. In other words, you cannot be WRONG about your lack of belief (or right).
I would have to say it offers the truth, but they don't believe it's the truth. But at least we don't start assuming things and then bombing people for it.
It's very telling when an individual, in attempting to determine what is true, is mostly concerned with which belief system offers the best payoffs. It's as if they have been conditioned to believe that feelings are the best way to determine reality, and not critical analysis.
Based on your explanation, why in the world would a Muslim living in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc,..leave their faith, families everything due to having dreams of JESUS or Visions of Jesus. Clearly in Saudi Arabia, Christianity is not cultural and to a large extent ANY Muslim Nation. Why would those people leave their faith that they are IMMERSED in from school, family, Government, Culture, Everything, to follow JESUS??? There are COUNTLESS examples of this you can find online....
Hey, James. I haven't watched many of your videos lately. Feels good to be back...
Nice video...I'm a part of the 'Muslim community', so I think you've had at least one Muslim viewer from almost the beginning. As cliche as the question was I don't think it was a 'dick' question. But whatever :)
And I would have given the same answer to this question; yours is of course more eloquently worded than what I could have done.
And now if only one Christian replies and tells me that Hitler was an atheist I will go insane !
1. No he fucking wasn't.
2. I'm German and my grandparents lived back then. They were Christians, everybody was Christian. They are still Christians and I personally met many old German Christians who defended Hitlers actions.
3. The church did JACK SHIT against the nazis.
4. Hitler himself claimed that by killing the jews he was helping God getting the job done.
FatGermanBastard, yeah, it's annoying that Christians will say he was an Atheist, but they can just throw Stalin at us, can't they? Anyway, you find those nutters in any belief, really.
Well but Stalin never did it because of atheism but because he was a greedy bastard. I don't see why he wouldn't have done the same if he was a Christian. So they can't really throw him at us. I never heard about anyone going into an atheism jihad and becomming an atheist suicide bomber.
None ! I didn't say Hitler was acting on behalf of Christianity. My point was that he did not act on behalf of atheism either. I could ask you: Which tenets of atheism was Hitler following ?
It's the same with Ted Bundy, Stalin or Mussolini. They used moral relativism to justify their actions. However, their actions are not part of a relativistic doctrine since relativism is purely descriptive. It contains no recommendations on how one ought to act. So atheism etc. CAN'T be blamed for anything.
I never said Hitler was an atheist either. But you specifically tried to tie Hitler to christianity, along with everyone else who lived back then, who agreed with Hitler.
So once again, what tenets identify Hitler and all of those who agreed with him, as christians?
As far as moral relativism goes, it CAN be blamed along with atheism, since it ALLOWS for such behavior to follow intellectually. It is also incapable of condemning such behavior.
Everybody back then was Christian in Germany, vbfl ! If Christians are so good and morally great why didn't they stop Hitler ? Why didn't the church give a shit about him but actually supported him ? If Christianity leads to better real life affects than atheism then why did that happen in a Christian community ?
not that i really think this discussion is relevant, but the church didn't simply support Hitler. That's a gross exaggeration of history. In response to the socialist party, the evangelical community broke down into three groups: "The Deutsche Christian" composed of three thousand pastors were the people that were organzied and manipulated by, and backed, Hitler. "The Lutheran Council" - nine thousand pastors who opposed the Nazi party, and
The Confessional Synod whose 5,000 pastors were militantly opposed to Nazi domination, fought it by every means in their power." In addition to that, many Catholic churches opposed Hitler, lead by the bishop of Munich.
Nazi Germany was CLEARLY a Christian community. The population was almost entirely Christian back then. I was born in Germany 1982. When I was a kid the people who lived back then were only 60 to 70 years old. And nearly all of them were devout Christians. They go to church regularly. When I was 19 I worked for the German Red Cross and I met those people every day... Trust me THEY WERE CHRISTIANS !!
Now the question I am asking you is: Isn't it obvious that blaming atheism for Hitler is BS ?
It didn't happen because the people were atheists and didn't bother. They were Christians and didn't bother. Let me add: Quite a few of the Christians I met defended Hitler and his actions and told me what a wonderful time it was and how the media is telling all the wrong stories. Nazi Germany was a CHRISTIAN community and it still happened. So Christianity does not stop these things. It's not like it makes people more courageous. That's bullshit. Atheists were even prosecuted by the Nazis.
The whole argument of the Christian community is that Christians have good values and atheists don't so things like the holocaust happen when we are atheists but that's obviously wrong because the holocaust happened in a CHRISTIAN community. Do you seriously believe that not 98 to 99% of the people were Christians back then and I mean real Christians that go to church and stuff ? And then the church who didn't give a crap blames it on atheism. That's utterly ridiculous.
Once again, please show me a Nazi ideology that corresponds to an actual christian tenet.
Stating that they were "christians" who didn't bother, says nothing about their belief system.
If I said to you that a group of police did nothing to stop a gang-rape, would this tell you anything about their ACTUAL legal duties, or would it merely address their behavior?
Look...if someone said: "Policemen are better people than others because they stop crimes" and then you have a whole nation of policemen and they don't give a crap about crime then that proves the theory wrong. That's all I ever wanted to say. The fact that it was a Christian community back then proves that Christianity does not prevent such things. It is not true that in a Christian community such things can't happen while they do happen in an atheist community. That's all I ever meant.
For me principles, ideologies and religions are never better than a rational decision on a case by case basis. So I disagree with you here.
It has been proven over and over again that mankind does not keep to ideologies anyway. They just interpret them to match their interests. What tenets of communism did Stalin follow ? What tenets of Islam did Saddam follow ? No matter what ideology you have. The rulers will make the interpretation and the masses will follow it blindly.
OP is a pussy. I'm an atheist...and I want to hit your face with a lead pipe.
TheAndyChandy 3 weeks ago
What can Atheism offer that Religion can not? Truth, a real world view, a universe rather than a book.
txguy1973 2 months ago
I'm a true agnostic, and enjoy the benefits of both sides, without the constraints of either. I enjoy the idea that there may be deeper meanings to our existence without the BS of religion. It's kind of a great thing to not know, but allow yourself to wonder at the mysteries of life and the universe. Atheism seems flat - religions seem stupid.
xplorva 3 months ago
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Want to see the real Garden of Eden? Take a look at my videos. I'm the guy who discovered it. As far as religion goes- it does nothing for you, but Jesus will introduce you to His Father if you'll let Him. God is real and so is lucifer. Both want you, but only 1 loves you- figure it out
downyourtube 7 months ago
At what point in this video were the pros of being atheist described? Someone help me out.
kateSusannahh 1 year ago
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can you tell me
i)are you here on this planet earth with your own will?
ii) you will get out of this world without your permit ion even when you are not willing to go?
iii)can you make a fly or a bee for me can any lab in the world do that?
iv)who manufactured you this good looking?
it happened automatically
nonsense then white house is also standing there automatically.
give me answers
and logical
no useless answer's
account5014 1 year ago
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account5014 1 year ago
You're right - the religionists make their explanations AFTER they make choice. While making choice they do not do those investigations.
It is a peculiarity of a religious Weltanshauung to find logical and reasonable explanations for illogical and unreasonable statements.
linguisticus 1 year ago
Fearlessness, freedom of thought, the will to explore, ect. Something we can all do but are so afraid of.
CorruptBeliefsDivine 1 year ago
I disagree.
I saw a bumper sticker on a truck the other day that read "Relax, God is in control." And I could only think "Really? Then why don't you just let go of the steering wheel?"
I don't think most theists believe that their supernatural beliefs really do reflect reality.
theguruofreason 1 year ago
@theguruofreason you said it all XD
TIMThisIsMusic 1 year ago
DDA, I felt that experience that you mentioned as a Atheist after I converted from Christianity, ever since, I felt that Atheism is the best choice for me. The 72 virgins part sounds incredibly wrong in my persona. I believe Atheism is correct because it does not threaten you with torment at the same time toss a trinket in your face (hell and heaven).
GBBWCETDF 1 year ago
I don't understand the Muslim mythos; after 72 days you'd be stuck with 72 non-virgin chicks and a bloody mess everywhere.
tipoomaster 1 year ago 2
@tipoomaster That's assuming that you only fuck one per day.
theguruofreason 1 year ago
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I'm sorry, this video was just plain condescending. The muslim guy may have been just curious. If anyone is acting like a dick, it's you...
superx57 1 year ago
I'm sorry, this video was just plain condescending. The muslim guy may have been just curious. If anyone is acting like a dick, it's you...
superx57 1 year ago
@superx57 I thought he was particularly respectful in his personal opinion. It's just that, because his opinion is in opposition with your own, I'm assuming, you are offended.
IanALane 1 year ago
@IanALane I find it interesting you can assume such a thing, considering I never gave a position on this matter. As for content in question, the muslim guy was just curious, but DasAmericanAtheist was kind of going about it the wrong way and behaved rudely in my opinion. I know a lot of atheists who are respectful and don't mind answering questions without being condescending and disrespectful towards those who are unfamiliar with atheism.
superx57 1 year ago
@superx57 I thought he was increadibly fair and respectful to everyone. It is you who is acting like the dick for accusing him of something he did not do.
CorruptBeliefsDivine 1 year ago
@CorruptBeliefsDivine I wouldn't call, "don't ask dick questions," fair and respectful, but I guess along with different beliefs, we also have different standards.
superx57 1 year ago
@superx57 He was saying don't ask stupid questions, but he said dick because he knows many religious idiots say dumb things for no reason.
CorruptBeliefsDivine 1 year ago
@CorruptBeliefsDivine "he knows many religious idiots say dumb things for no reason".
That was a very unnecessary generalization, and it just proved that I wasn't wrong for believing that DasAmericanAtheist was condescending and rude.
For the record, I don't think the Muslim guy asked a stupid question at all. He's not an Atheist, so how could he possibly know what it means to be one? I think some people, including DasAmericanAtheist are too self-absorbed to see it that way.
superx57 1 year ago
@superx57 Stop acting like a dickhole with your technicalities. Seriously, it's extremely annoying. MOST RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ACT LIKE PRICKS! Anyhow, I wasn't talking about that muslim guy at all! I was talking about idiots who ask stupid questions! Like a Christian who asks an unnecessary question of an Atheist who's just trying to get along. He isn't self-absorbed, I thought he was very nice and clear. Lastly, how can he be rude if he calmly and respectfully made this video?
CorruptBeliefsDivine 1 year ago
@CorruptBeliefsDivine Wow...compared to you, DasAmericanAtheist doesn't seem that bad. What I find annoying are your unecessary generalizations. It's interesting that you would say religious people act like pricks, when you're acting like one right now, just because my opinion is different from yours. This isn't about you or your personal experiences with Christians. I'm speaking clearly on context, and if my technicalities annoy you, just don't respond. It's that simple.
superx57 1 year ago
@superx57 I feel bad for your girlfriend (if you have one) or maybe your boyfriend if you're female.
CorruptBeliefsDivine 1 year ago
@CorruptBeliefsDivine ...Uh, okaaaaay?
superx57 1 year ago
@superx57 that's teh spirit :3
CorruptBeliefsDivine 1 year ago
LOL, very well said. In all honesty I'm agnostic so I'm not the type to get caught up in all these arguments but I really liked the way you phrased everything. Nicely done.
RevoltOfAges 1 year ago
So paranoid.
I mean, I have no belief in God, but you talk about "The Theists" like they're some sort of evil group who's coming to attack us all.
meshumekha 1 year ago
It's a shame everyone can't just let people believe what they want. Believe in God? Terrific. You don't? Oh well. There's no point in trying to convince anyone of anything
icrynuxfire 2 years ago 3
True. Christians are ABSOLUTELY annoying for that part.
So1id08 1 year ago
Not just Christians, all religions, including non-religious people, are guilty of this.
icrynuxfire 1 year ago
@icrynuxfire As long as your beliefs don't hurt others or yourself, I agree. But generally it goes too far.
UrieWhore68 1 year ago
Atheism do not offer anything and religion offers lies upon lies, so what do you prefer? do you want to hear the truth or lies? it is up to you
51cacheton 2 years ago 3
72 virgins? How in any way, shape or form is that a reward? That sounds like monumental frustration.
I'm holding out for the religion that offers one (1) experienced milf.
TheMegaTroll 2 years ago 27
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lies
TheIggy457 2 years ago
i dont know why people worry about someone being a atheist. to me its like being in a garden and saying theres no garden tender .some people see him first others later.the ones who dont see are not going to be able to believe it,
i can see its all about having a right heart and bearing fruit by the plenty in these spiritual practices.how many people already have this even tho they haven't seen God yet.if there is a devil man hes the one making u hate atheists.and yes i am a Christian
stablehorse123 2 years ago
man this a great video
DRogers1082 2 years ago
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Watching someone try to defend atheism is so fvcking hysterical, goddamn the absurdity, lol.
theDracoIX 2 years ago
More absurd then talking snakes and donkeys? More absurd then incest being the origin for the human species? More absurd then virgin birth?
AAL 2 years ago 4
No, more absurd than shapeshifting vampyres. Now, be gone.
theDracoIX 2 years ago
You believe in vampires too?
I bet you think Santa is going to bring you presents as well.
AAL 2 years ago
Wasn't the question, what does atheism offer that the muslim dudes religion does not?
It seem your saying that atheism offer that it is the right answer, however isn't that the same as the muslims guys religion offers him?
Maybe you should have said it offers freedom from dogma.
That would have been true and would make more sense.
I guess what i'm saying is your video doesn;t seem to answer the question.
FriendOregon 2 years ago
@FriendOregon I don't think he was trying to answer the question; he explained how the question was irrelevant, as people don't believe things based on what the belief has to offer, but whether they think the belief is true. It does indeed offer "freedom from dogma" but that's not why atheists are atheists - it's the lack of belief that any gods exist. I think that was his point, anyway.
Flyborg 2 years ago
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bloodrunsclear 2 years ago
so you are an atheist because you think it is right? excellent argument.
LARKSPURandLILY 2 years ago
Maybe you didn't catch what this video WAS arguing.
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago 6
@DasAmericanAtheist Atheist means beleiving there is not Gods. pretty simple and very stupid, kind of remind me oh christians and muslims
Vedati88 10 months ago
Relgion is for scared people, and young kids who become brained washed. think about it, what has god ever done for you?
nolahp1973 2 years ago
@nolahp1973
Such a simpleton point of view.
Do you know how many times I've seen this insult parroted among so many Atheists?
Think for yourself. Come up with something better to say. You're boring us now.
DawahFilms 2 years ago
uuuuggghh...boring....silly...okay.
if an atheist is right...he dies and gets nothing.....if he's wrong...he's fkd.
Atleast a religious person has a chance when they die....i mean...these atheists are so amusing to me...who do they think they are?
Well, they must be on some higher level of intelligence than Christians,etc...living now and all since passed huh? lol....ridiculous to me...listen up...WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE PROOF! WOULDNT MAKE SENSE IF WE KNEW FOR SURE! ITS CALLED FAITH!
BellmeisterGeneral 2 years ago
@BellmeisterGeneral - I am a human, a primate, monkey, in the same sense that a duck is a bird. I live on a pale blue dot, a speck of dust to the solar system and "atomic" to a galaxy, and beyond "subatomic" to a single super-cluster let alone the millions or billions that are. I get meaning from life that I am living, there are many deities throughout history which only care if you're a good person, not allegiances, everything you say fails horribly, and caps-lock doesn't make it any better.
Slip819 2 years ago
ya great response...brilliant....boring drivel!
your not the first to espouse this modern thinking of self worship...how did you put it? "I get meaning from life that I am living"...what a load!
lol...I'm sorry but it makes me laugh...you give yourself way too much credit there smart guy...who are you to denounce Christianity? That's what is so amusing to me...I know my limitations....but you...your so much smarter than us silly believers and the billions before us....wow, your like a diety!
BellmeisterGeneral 2 years ago
@BellmGeneral It's pretty much the opposite of self-worship, taken what science has given us, it's a bit more like a humbling acceptance of our finiteness and the universes largess, how is that at all ado with empowerment or self-worship. You're projecting, not everyone must worship something like you do god, or at all, just because you do. I denounced nothing, except your liberal use of ellipsis. Furthermore I am arguing a humble attitude, you're actually arguing knowing all the big questions.
Slip819 2 years ago
@BellmGeneral BTW, everyone gets meaning from the life they are living, it's a self evident fact, "smartguy." Meaning is more a feeling than it is anything else, and as for the average human it's simply something thats emergent from any cause which touts itself as good for the society culture or species. Meaning isn't something anyone has a monopoly on, though some try their hardest to make it seem that way for there own groups & it's self-evident that other than the mean motif it's subjective.
Slip819 2 years ago
So where do you get your meaning from - a bronze age book? Just because you heard an argument before doesn't invalidate it.
What does knowing your limitations have to do with it, the commentor you responded to didn't claim to be superhuman, just human. Your'e the one with the arrogance to presume that you know the supreme power. Or rather you admit that you don't know but believe it anyway. Everything changes, religion has and will go on changing, maybe until it is no more. Open your mind.
trifelgeputinage 2 years ago 3
Bell..
No, its called ignorance and wishful thinking.
Tell me, why is beliving by faith (hope) more important to your god than believing thru evidence? Do you go to a doctor for checu-ups, or do you have faith you won't acquire some really nasty disease?
Cootabux 2 years ago
Actually a theist has just as much chance of being in the shit when they die as anyone else, afterall not ALL religions can be right, so yu'd better make sure you choose the right supernatural entity to spend your life worshipping and grovelling.
Anyway if there is a hell then God is immoral and sick, I want nothing to do with Him/Her/It.
Faith is a cop out, instead of just saying you don't know you have to invent some ludicrous invisible power. You get one life, forget the next and LIVE now
trifelgeputinage 2 years ago 3
way to represent Christ... by cursing at others... that'll get the message across... look u aint helpin Christianity with these statements so plz remain quiet
MrKylehass 2 years ago
Great response! Praise Cheeses.
lc237 2 years ago
Brilliant. I often wonder if they're unionizing theology and going for bargaining away their faith. Soon you'll have to have each god post their Pay and Benefits packages. The question often seems to me to follow the thought, "what are the wages of your theology?" Hmmm. That gives me an idea.
BTW, when Brock said you were two ships passing in the night, the image that came to my mind was your ship floating past the wreckage of the titanic at the bottom of the sea.
RichardRoy2 2 years ago
Not your best video. For example the question of "what has atheism has to offer in comparison to..."
To me it is clear that the person asking this wants an answer in which the comparison is made between their current view and atheism.
deadlock1981 2 years ago
Why is all your videos in black and white??
massiebabe123 2 years ago
Atheism offers NOTHING that religion cannot... because it offers NOTHING at all. No atheist 'world-view'... faith... beliefs... dogma... doctrine...
There are books of 'god-stories', from which people run around spouting verses, slogans, bon mots and threats, trying to get others to 'believe'. Those people who are not stupid and gullible enough to fall for such crap get labeled as 'atheists'. That is IT. That is ALL.
The question should be "What can SANITY offer me that religion cannot?"
DuckPhup 2 years ago 12
@DuckPhup The one thing Atheism offers is freedom of thought and fearlessness.
CorruptBeliefsDivine 1 year ago
This is a very intelligent argument, but I can answer the question in more practical terms. If we restrict theism to the three desert dogmas, then I can say that atheism offers non-theism, where said theism offers a perverted version of morality (behavior control through fear of reprisal), a perverted version of truth, justice and fairness, (there is nothing just about 'the fall', 'vicarious salvation, virgin sacrifice on wood posts or return to earth Hitler Jesus). And I'm not a "slave to god"
Serpent257 2 years ago
Amen!
TheAlienGod 2 years ago
Nicely done. I have a completely off topic question - what's the DAS stand for?
Shestumbledin 2 years ago
Wow, your argument proves your point!
paleomike8 2 years ago 3
What does atheism offer? Freedom from the dogmas of religion, and not much else. Transhumanism offers the same freedom from religion, yet adds the prospect of freedom from death, suffering, and other limitations of the human condition. We can create heaven, attain transcendence, and become gods *ourselves*... with technology. Transhumanism is the only true 21st century philosophy, and supercedes all other secular philosophy. Time to upgrade!
Parapon3ra 2 years ago
transhumanism...ya.....or heck why not just worship a tree?
BellmeisterGeneral 2 years ago
@BellmeisterGeneral Suppose that's just about as cognitively salient as worshiping hereto self imagined invisible beings. But how about not worshiping anything at all, feeling humbled or awed in front of what it is we're surrounded by isn't worshiping it, its feeling humbled & awed by the implications of such a vast expanse, simple just what it is in fact, not ado with anything on your knees anthropomorphizing with vocal or ritual praise. Stop with the Freudian projection.
Slip819 2 years ago
Comment removed
WolfMoonX3 2 years ago
Very cool. I much agree with you.
SORCelement 2 years ago
The point is, that what it has to offer, is a higher likelihood of being in line with what is TRUE.
FSMhasRisen 2 years ago
Atheism isn't a "world view" and it isn't an "answer"... I really don't like the way you frame your argument :/
vickmackey24 2 years ago
pwned... :) very nice reply to a very stupid yet revealing question.
TheLazy0ne 2 years ago
BRAVO! Very well said.
onegaidragon 2 years ago
You might be interested in C. S. Lewis' story of his own conversion.
jericomovie 2 years ago
I've read his work. There are certainly outliers, which is why I don't claim that ALL Christians are such because they were depressed.
Your point is well noted good sir :o)
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago
Very well put. 5/5
Favourited.
kersedsaint 2 years ago
Comment removed
kersedsaint 2 years ago
Well that was a very good video.
The question that was asked of you, was very stupid. comparing what is given after death to sway a person from one faith to another is just stupid. Im still an atheist, and christians have a "heaven" BUT there is also "hell", muslims have 72 VIRGINS but im gay........crap i mean there is also a "hell" hmm i wonder if there would be 72 gay virgins for gay people? lol
atheism has no rewards after death....well im my eyes there is. NOTHING ahhh i cant wait :)
bobby472 2 years ago
Beautifully done. Top notch, my in-hell-roasting comrade!
anmpir 2 years ago
Haven't watched you in a bit, forgot how well spoken you were. Bravo, sir, very well put!
bananagraveyard 2 years ago
Bravo. "don't ask dick questions" that made me laugh so hard it hurts to breathe. A tip of my hat to you sir. Continue to good work.
Athiest2009 2 years ago
Thank you for making this video! It's been frustrating to hear theists ask about the perks of atheism, as if they think that the truth isn't worth believing in itself.
Spootmeister 2 years ago
Excellent, James.
TheoreticalBullshit 2 years ago
Atheism offers me nothing, but from atheism I get everything.
helloenemy 2 years ago 3
At 2:40 you seem to make a sweeping generalization. You claim, if I'm not mistaken, that ALL people of faith came to their beliefs first, then rationalized it with reasons. Do you really think that's fair?
legodesi 2 years ago
I say "by and large"...not all.
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago
ohkay. that's still a generalization. it's weird for any one person believed something purely for emotional reasons without any intellectual considerations, and i'd say highly unlikely for most of them to do so in such a way. as with all important beliefs, the emotional and rational components are usually mixed.
legodesi 2 years ago
Yes, but in the video I say that the justifications, the intellectual reasons, are AFTER the choice has already been made.
If there is a christian who decided to become a christian after reading the bible, studying theology and biblical archeology...BEFORE already committing to the religion...I have yet to meet that christian.
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago
"I have yet to meet that christian."
So you're basing this "by and large" description of the world's religious people by your personal encounters (and surveys, I'm sure) of Christians.
legodesi 2 years ago
How many christians do you know that "reached an informed decision" regarding their religion?
Honestly.
Did you convert to christianity BECAUSE you studied the philosophical arguments, examined the historical evidence, read the bible...did you do all that BEFORE deciding to convert...or did you do all that AFTER converting.
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago
It's rather hard for me to determine whether someone has reached a belief rationally.
I did it partly because of philosophy, partly because of personal and spiritual reasons. there are more dimensions to a belief than just the intellectual ones. and were i to be a Christian before having sophisticated reasons for being one doesn't discount the rationality of my belief now, just as someone who had believed something for less than good reasons may replace his basis for belief with
legodesi 2 years ago
... replace his basis for belief with something better. what is important to determine the rationality of his beliefs now is why he believes in now, not how he may have originally came to it.
legodesi 2 years ago
You're fixating a bit. The point of this video isn't why I think most Christians became Christians (and I DO acknowledge that there are people who become Christians for intellectual reasons)...the point is that REGARDLESS of what *I* think, we view our beliefs the same way.
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago
Lee Strobel?
Isn't that what he says he did as an atheist, in the Case for Christ?
vbfl920 2 years ago
C.S. Lewis?
vbfl920 2 years ago
Don't even give me that Less Strobel bullshit. He's a propagandist. He was as much an "atheist" as Kirk Cameron.
I DO grant that there ARE atheists who DO convert. I made NO presumption to speak for ALL conversions.
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago
And how do you know this James? lol!
How do you know how "much" an atheist he was, or what type he was? Was he always a propagandist? I was more or less just throwing his name out there.
Even so, that says nothing about C.S. Lewis or even Antony Flew (Thought not a christian, it was still evidence that lead to his belief, not emotional need)
So you do grant that there are atheists who do convert? Well, what TYPE of conversion?
You weren't so liberal about this in your video.
vbfl920 2 years ago
Awesome points James. I wish I could give you a 10 star rating for this one.
JebusBad 2 years ago
LOL, loved that ending, brilliant delivery. Great points the religious justifying after the fact, but I would add that Atheism doesnt offer anything, because its not a belief, its a non belief. Atheism is the result of a way of thinking, not the determinant. Im an atheist because I require evidence to believe something, because I dont trust people blindly, and because I think the scientific method is the only way of knowing the world, and these qualities have led me to become an atheist.
kosmoincalgary 2 years ago
I really feel like responding to this video...
DawahFilms 2 years ago
I didn't convert out of depression, and I think you were overgeneralizing there James.
I would, however, agree this isn't a good question (or argument) to use in a discussion.
jcrebel18 2 years ago
@jcrebel18
Neither did I. I was raised Catholic, deconverted because I was going through rebellious teen phase, then converted to Christianity again, and now I'm a Muslim.
But my journey has been intellectual. If anything I see more Atheists deconverting for emotional reasons, but I have no evidence to say that most of them do so.
DawahFilms 2 years ago
i think that atheism does have something to offer, a sense of freedom because you are not always doubting yourself at the back of your mind.
MonsterMo44 2 years ago
I'm sure you've had more than 72 chances--although its true all of them wouldn't have been virgins.
HConstantine 2 years ago
You're looking a little out of practice -- shows in the eye contact. Keep it polished, it's one of the most effective elements of your delivery.
More power.
PDXOutsider 2 years ago
This is the most thorough answer to the age old question I have ever heard. "Nothing" is the answer Atheists usually answer. But it falls into the trap of the question. The motives for asking the question are what need to be answered.
pookiehohn 2 years ago
Asking for the Benefits of Atheism as a means to changing belief, if the same as trying to convince someone of fairies by the benefits that my be derived from belief.
pookiehohn 2 years ago
golf clap
mtsac1 2 years ago
Nice ending their Das.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
I think your last two thoughts, if brought just a touch closer to one statement, gets at the real reason theists ask this question. I think a lot of them assume they know the answer, that it is exactly that you are running away from god, and they are just trying to set up a gotcha of some kind.
It is a dick question. Not so much because they don't ask it of themselves... but because it isn't really a question at all.
AutodidacticPhd 2 years ago
good points.
TruthSurge 2 years ago
Atheist offers nothing... hehehe
cguevara12 2 years ago
@cguevara12
That would be 'AN atheist offers nothing...' or 'Atheism offers nothing...'
Think before you type, it makes you look stupid if you don't...
MrNDSteinbach 2 years ago
@MrNDStienbach....
DasAmericanAtheist knows what I would say so we are both cool. I like his work so I'm just fucking with him.
cguevara12 2 years ago
Ah, okay, LOL
MrNDSteinbach 2 years ago
>:-( This video is naughty.
Take your fanboys/ cult and leave Britney Spears alone das.
cguevara12 2 years ago
I'm not a fan of das I'm just subed and watch his videos now and then.
MrNDSteinbach 2 years ago
Good video. The question is a silly one, at least taken at face value. Because whether atheism has nothing to offer, or all the greatest promises ever, it doesn't make it more or less true. The Christian, at least, should realize this because, though the Christian worldview does offer ultimate redemption, in the here-and-now it calls for sacrifice, giving to the poor, renouncing worldly possessions etc. Not exactly glitz and glam, "look at this extravagant lifestyle!"
TheIllegit 2 years ago
i love that question cause its easy.
my answer: "not a fucking thing", no promises, no lies, no truth claims, no leaps of faith, no suspention of disbelief, no heaven , no hell, no original sin, no unattainable goals no moral high ground no euphorical fill for the hole in your heart.
thats all i can think of , but you get the picture.
MpowerdAPE 2 years ago 3
sir, i bow down in obsequious awe.
gothatfunk 2 years ago
what does me not believeing in santa clause offer, nothing
roycesboy 2 years ago 3
Excellence.
aretz28 2 years ago
Awesome job James. Atheism offers something real. If you don't want that then I feel sorry for you.
Thejugglingbum 2 years ago
Atheists get free sprinkles at Baskin Robbins, and 30% off on ascots and monocles at Sears.
GoblinXXX 2 years ago 4
@GoblinXXX
Oooh, I could leave my tribal mythology for candy and a gentleman look!
kaminarigaston 2 years ago
(2 of 2)
That said, I think its more helpful for Christians to start a question like, what does Christianity offer that they couldn't have w/out it? When Christians discovery there's practical nothing they can't have apart from their faith that they have w/ it... freedom needn't be far behind.
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
(1 of 2)
It's kind of silly when Christians ask this. Atheism is a lack of a belief. So the idea that if "offers" something seems misinformed from the start. A more informed version might ask what secular worldviews like humanism offer.
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
Das, isn't your atheism defined as a lack of belief in god?
If this is true then your atheism cannot reflect reality. A lack of belief in something does not state anything about what you think reality entails.
I am not really trying to make any conclusions from this observation, just pointing out that a lack of belief in a proposition is a psychological state that cannot even reflect reality to begin with. In other words, you cannot be WRONG about your lack of belief (or right).
solid444 2 years ago
I would have to say it offers the truth, but they don't believe it's the truth. But at least we don't start assuming things and then bombing people for it.
seraphinapandora 2 years ago
I loved this video. Very well said!
itsmaxinthebox 2 years ago
What does truth have to offer that falsehood does not?
;)
philhellenes 2 years ago 4
It's very telling when an individual, in attempting to determine what is true, is mostly concerned with which belief system offers the best payoffs. It's as if they have been conditioned to believe that feelings are the best way to determine reality, and not critical analysis.
shadyvista 2 years ago
Atheism isn't a complete world view, so the comparison makes no sense.
Nice video by the way James!
Glo0myWizard 2 years ago
What does atheism offer? The same as not believing in astrology.
SchrodingersFinch 2 years ago
I concur, even if you grant them that atheism offers less than theism that doesn't make theism any more true.
Good point.
Shoemagic 2 years ago
Shoemagic
empty promises and false hope consoles most of humanity.for them its true enough.
10sodot 2 years ago
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
Shoemagic 2 years ago
I love my new car! It sort of goes with the toaster I got. You know, the one I got for coming out as gay.
TimCubUAkbar 2 years ago
The same has happend to many Hindu's etc...
Weallfart 2 years ago
Based on your explanation, why in the world would a Muslim living in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc,..leave their faith, families everything due to having dreams of JESUS or Visions of Jesus. Clearly in Saudi Arabia, Christianity is not cultural and to a large extent ANY Muslim Nation. Why would those people leave their faith that they are IMMERSED in from school, family, Government, Culture, Everything, to follow JESUS??? There are COUNTLESS examples of this you can find online....
Weallfart 2 years ago
It offers me null. A = 0g. T =+1g.
Mephistophilus 2 years ago
Why does atheism have to offer anything?
siefertma 2 years ago 3
Fiveses.
urbanelf 2 years ago
Hey, James. I haven't watched many of your videos lately. Feels good to be back...
Nice video...I'm a part of the 'Muslim community', so I think you've had at least one Muslim viewer from almost the beginning. As cliche as the question was I don't think it was a 'dick' question. But whatever :)
And I would have given the same answer to this question; yours is of course more eloquently worded than what I could have done.
saqib09 2 years ago 2
2:00 I said the exact same thing on stickam once.
You stole that from me bastard.
smpunditz 2 years ago 4
I think I said the same thing to TFP in stickam... so you stole it from me.
Apologize, now!
urbanelf 2 years ago
BULLSHIT!!
smpunditz 2 years ago
The one thing that bothers me about people asking this question is that they don't realize that atheism is not a religion.
blindkilla2 2 years ago
What does atheism have to offer ?
- Social freedom (gay marriage, liberal laws, nobody gets stoned for ridiculous reasons etc)
- Freedom of science (it is allowed to say that the earth is round and not the center of the universe, stem cell research etc.)
- Freedom of mind (I don't have to worry about going to hell when I have the wrong thoughts).
- Sexual freedom (nobody tells you what you can and can't do unless it harms others).
- Truth
- Safety (no atheistic suicide bombers)
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago
And now if only one Christian replies and tells me that Hitler was an atheist I will go insane !
1. No he fucking wasn't.
2. I'm German and my grandparents lived back then. They were Christians, everybody was Christian. They are still Christians and I personally met many old German Christians who defended Hitlers actions.
3. The church did JACK SHIT against the nazis.
4. Hitler himself claimed that by killing the jews he was helping God getting the job done.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago 2
FatGermanBastard, yeah, it's annoying that Christians will say he was an Atheist, but they can just throw Stalin at us, can't they? Anyway, you find those nutters in any belief, really.
seraphinapandora 2 years ago
Well but Stalin never did it because of atheism but because he was a greedy bastard. I don't see why he wouldn't have done the same if he was a Christian. So they can't really throw him at us. I never heard about anyone going into an atheism jihad and becomming an atheist suicide bomber.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago 2
Ill bite.
Which tenets of christianity was Hitler following?
vbfl920 2 years ago
None ! I didn't say Hitler was acting on behalf of Christianity. My point was that he did not act on behalf of atheism either. I could ask you: Which tenets of atheism was Hitler following ?
It's the same with Ted Bundy, Stalin or Mussolini. They used moral relativism to justify their actions. However, their actions are not part of a relativistic doctrine since relativism is purely descriptive. It contains no recommendations on how one ought to act. So atheism etc. CAN'T be blamed for anything.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago
Oh come on man!
I never said Hitler was an atheist either. But you specifically tried to tie Hitler to christianity, along with everyone else who lived back then, who agreed with Hitler.
So once again, what tenets identify Hitler and all of those who agreed with him, as christians?
As far as moral relativism goes, it CAN be blamed along with atheism, since it ALLOWS for such behavior to follow intellectually. It is also incapable of condemning such behavior.
vbfl920 2 years ago
Everybody back then was Christian in Germany, vbfl ! If Christians are so good and morally great why didn't they stop Hitler ? Why didn't the church give a shit about him but actually supported him ? If Christianity leads to better real life affects than atheism then why did that happen in a Christian community ?
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago
not that i really think this discussion is relevant, but the church didn't simply support Hitler. That's a gross exaggeration of history. In response to the socialist party, the evangelical community broke down into three groups: "The Deutsche Christian" composed of three thousand pastors were the people that were organzied and manipulated by, and backed, Hitler. "The Lutheran Council" - nine thousand pastors who opposed the Nazi party, and
legodesi 2 years ago
The Confessional Synod whose 5,000 pastors were militantly opposed to Nazi domination, fought it by every means in their power." In addition to that, many Catholic churches opposed Hitler, lead by the bishop of Munich.
legodesi 2 years ago
Do you have any sources for that or anything I can search on Google to verify that ?
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago
"If Christians are so good and morally great why didn't they stop Hitler"
It sounds clear to me, you already SEE the tenets those war time German christians should have adhered to.
From this statement, you basically admit that you know they weren't behaving as christians ought to have behaved.
And I'm saying the exact same thing FGB.
vbfl920 2 years ago
Nazi Germany was CLEARLY a Christian community. The population was almost entirely Christian back then. I was born in Germany 1982. When I was a kid the people who lived back then were only 60 to 70 years old. And nearly all of them were devout Christians. They go to church regularly. When I was 19 I worked for the German Red Cross and I met those people every day... Trust me THEY WERE CHRISTIANS !!
Now the question I am asking you is: Isn't it obvious that blaming atheism for Hitler is BS ?
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago 2
It didn't happen because the people were atheists and didn't bother. They were Christians and didn't bother. Let me add: Quite a few of the Christians I met defended Hitler and his actions and told me what a wonderful time it was and how the media is telling all the wrong stories. Nazi Germany was a CHRISTIAN community and it still happened. So Christianity does not stop these things. It's not like it makes people more courageous. That's bullshit. Atheists were even prosecuted by the Nazis.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago 2
The whole argument of the Christian community is that Christians have good values and atheists don't so things like the holocaust happen when we are atheists but that's obviously wrong because the holocaust happened in a CHRISTIAN community. Do you seriously believe that not 98 to 99% of the people were Christians back then and I mean real Christians that go to church and stuff ? And then the church who didn't give a crap blames it on atheism. That's utterly ridiculous.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago
Once again, please show me a Nazi ideology that corresponds to an actual christian tenet.
Stating that they were "christians" who didn't bother, says nothing about their belief system.
If I said to you that a group of police did nothing to stop a gang-rape, would this tell you anything about their ACTUAL legal duties, or would it merely address their behavior?
vbfl920 2 years ago
Look...if someone said: "Policemen are better people than others because they stop crimes" and then you have a whole nation of policemen and they don't give a crap about crime then that proves the theory wrong. That's all I ever wanted to say. The fact that it was a Christian community back then proves that Christianity does not prevent such things. It is not true that in a Christian community such things can't happen while they do happen in an atheist community. That's all I ever meant.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago
I understand what you mean.
But for the record, I don't say that certain "policemen" are better then others.
I say that ALL people do wrong and need Christ's provision because of it.
vbfl920 2 years ago
Well but that's what many other Christians say and that's what I was talking about in my first comment.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago
I understand, but do you realize that IF a group of people put their ideology into practice, chances are they will behave better as christians?
if "christians" who lived at the time of Hitler, actually put their beliefs into practice, you would see a completely different behavior here.
vbfl920 2 years ago
@vbfl920:
For me principles, ideologies and religions are never better than a rational decision on a case by case basis. So I disagree with you here.
It has been proven over and over again that mankind does not keep to ideologies anyway. They just interpret them to match their interests. What tenets of communism did Stalin follow ? What tenets of Islam did Saddam follow ? No matter what ideology you have. The rulers will make the interpretation and the masses will follow it blindly.
FatGermanBastard 2 years ago