Wing Chun - Outside Triangle Footwork (basic structure)

[cameronameri]

thats cool, we do the triangle with our leg in between the enemy

[xCeLExperience]

@enesog

Then why bother comment on this video?

[tepan234]

my teacher said i should learn shaolin kung fu, the grappling kung fu (forgot the name), and pak kwa (cmiiw) before i can learn wing chun. what do you think of it?

[Cryuss90]

no one in my class uses that stance so far that i've seen... but then again no one has been there for more than 6 months haha

[thewirah]

Great teaching, I love your videos.

Let me disagree about the advantage of your initial stance in this one vid. You don't have to raise your fists like you are ready to defend yourself but not offering your central line is the best way to protect yourself against a sucker punch, knee in the groin or whatnot. Don't ever let anyone get too close, and protect your center line.

[Menca199]

Nice Job Jin from Italy!

[enesog]

All Bullshitt compare to Shanso Kung Fu and pro Boxing

[HoldOnAndSmile]

thanks for showing this..in a very understandable way..

very clear..

thank you.

[dxmakina]

okay? okay. okay? okay.

[alejandrocastr]

Friends, usteds not know what they're talking about, do not share at all his style of wing-Tzun

[tatudharma]

Good teacher.

[littlecannon]

Thank you... it's good to see someone who doesn't drop into a low martial pose when speaking of street fighting.

[Markiiful]

aye umm the fight was siik as bro lol like i got hit a few times by trying to do that i cant mastr it very well lol but like now my friend wants to fight me man i actually hate fighting but i thought i might just get to know these things just in case lol buttake it easy njow man tcxx

[Markiiful]

thanks man ill be practise it all night lol cause i got a fight tomoz l9ike a massive brall

[chinaboxer]

doh, be careful!

[kaindrg]

wow

[sickness324]

@Markiiful Did you win?

[narayanadas]

so good form argentina!

[chinaboxer]

thanks!

[RyzER617]

The Pin Sun Wing Chun system consisted of thirty-six "core" San Sik, divided into twelve sections of fighting methods (with additional extensions, Jong Sao (Dummy Hands), Som Dim Boon Gwun (Three-and-a-half-Point Pole), and Yee Jee Yum Yeung Dit Ming Dao (Character = Yin Yang Life Taking Knives)).

[RyzER617]

P2

" Each of the twelve sets contained either three actions or had three cycles, which are similar to the actions of Dr. Leung Jan's original art...... were both straight and circular, were primarily in keeping with the Pin Sun methods, and were some of the skills he utilized to win over THREEE HUNDRED fights during his career."

World Wide Authority on Pin sun,

Master Jim Roselando. entitled "Koo Lo Village - Pin Sun Wing Chun@at VT Museum.

Research--don't blab and display your ignorance

[phoenixifist]

respect is the first thing i learn in a wing chun class and the last thing i learnt also and so many respects in between.

similar thing.. a lot have asked my sifu to teach them but the same as gary as long as they have a sifu already my sifu will not teach them out of respect for the sifu they are under already.

why they seek knowledge from my sifu because as far as i know they have seen him teach or may have heard about him. u may call me narrow minded.. but i will learn fr him anyday.

[phoenixifist]

to an outsider.. WC all look the same. but the deeper i learn the more i find out some are superior to others. my sihing once told me when he was at gary lam seminar. a leung ting lineage instructor was impressed with gary lam he want to switch and learn from him but gary said no. he said if i have to teach you u have to start all over again. it means he has to forget or unlearn all those years training with leung ting if he as to learn with gary.

there are big differences between lineages.

[phoenixifist]

YES WE DO SHARE SOMETHING & THAT IS WING CHUN.

apple analogy is great example about touching hands. u dont know what it "taste" like until u touch hand with some1. again there are so many varieties of apples the one i buy and the best so far is from china tho they grow them here in england.WC is the same they look the same but taste different. hehehe. (2nd best i tasted was australian apple).

U R doing a great job jin sifu at least U R trying to pass down what you know to others.

respect

[chinaboxer]

exactly, you got it, and even if you do touch hands with someone, you still will never know how it "tastes" to THEM. you can only know how it "tastes" to YOU. and because you've tried so many different apples (chi sau) you start to realize which you prefer and which you don't, but you can only do that through experience.

[chinaboxer]

in other words, you'd never know what a "great apple" is unless you've tasted many "bad apples" as well, but like i said before, it's only good or bad to YOU, but may be good or bad to someone else. Wing Chun is the same for everyone, but the "flavor" is unique to each individual. take care and peace!

[phoenixifist]

there are things that matters. youtube is full of crap wing chun and too many infightings. these things are real and facts of life. you dont have to agree with me i dont have to agree with you. if you can bring all wing chun practitioners together that is a brilliant idea and im sure a lot of good people thought if it before but that will just be a FANTASY. there used to be one JKA (karate) now you have taekwondo and hundreds of other versions out there.NONE will never be ONE.

[chinaboxer]

it's not about agreeing or disagreeing with other wing chun practitioners, it's about respecting each other's "methods" because on the "outside" we are all the same, what i mean is that we all know pak sau, tan sau, bong sau, etc..that doesn't. no matter what sifu you go to, they all know the same movements, so what makes them different isn't what's on the outside, it's what's on the "inside" the sensitivity.

[chinaboxer]

the wing chun community, if you think about it, isn't bickering over what it "looks" like, but rather what it "feels" like, but that's my point, how can you tell someone what you should "feel" like? you can't, because we are completely different and unique individuals. for example, if i hold up an apple in front of you, and you've never tasted an apple in your life, how can i explain it to you?

[chinaboxer]

how can i convey how it "tastes" to me? and how can i assume how it's going to "taste" to you? i can't, i can only share with you my experiences but that's it. only YOU can know what it "tastes" like but YOU that has to take a "bite" of the apple, and not your sifu or anyone else can do that for you. but once you do, the "flavor" becomes unique to you.

[chinaboxer]

i'm probably rambling on, but it's very very early now 5 am, i better get some sleep. i enjoyed our discussion, take care and peace!

[chinaboxer]

one more thing, my goal isn't to bring all wing chun practitioners together, my goal is to get all wing chun practitioners to "respect" each others unique methods. and yes, it might be a "fantasy" as you put it, but does that mean we should give up before we try? doesn't that contradict the "go straight" concept?

[sild123]

hey bro, thanks for the other day, the ufc fight was great. machida rocks. especially the knee kick if you remember, make ortiz down for a second. im watching your new video now. peace bro!

[chinaboxer]

yea, Machida is such an amazing MMA fighter, take care and peace!

[sild123]

i see. thanks for your suggestion. here's from me, ip man vs spider man (not). peace!

[chinaboxer]

hmm..i'd have to place my bet on ip man! =D

[phoenixifist]

ppol come on youtube because its free. nobody pays. some might be willing to pay but in general no one will pay. when you make a full length dvd you should charge so at least you get some of your expenses back. then those who wants to to follow you would definitely buy your dvd.

i pay my dues when i learn with my sifu. best way to learn is with a sifu where you touch hand. you may share opinions or get tips on youtube but you can never learn wing chun without hands on with a sifu.

respect.

[chinaboxer]

you make some good points, and i do agree that understanding wing chun without a "hands on" sifu is very difficult. but i have a question for you, Ng Mui (founder of wing chun) developed this entire method without the internet, she created chi sau without a "hands on" sifu, she didn't have the advantages of technology today and yet, she created something special. how was that possible without someone to show her the way, how without a "hands on" sifu?

[phoenixifist]

i thought you are deeper than this. kung existed in china over 5housand years even more. they were practiced long before bodidarma(spiritual leader) of shaolin came across them. my point is kung fu has been evolving/improving over time not just in one day or one year but thru thousands or years. wing chun evolved from the best cherry picked by shaolin masters from these many forms of kung fu into one. not developed by one person but many persons thru time & research. no need for internet then.

[phoenixifist]

... the heart of wing chun is chi sao. chi sao is basically sticking hands. sticking hands is basically touch hands experience. now how can you teach someone chi sao without touching? how do you learn sensitivity without touching?how do you feel energy without touching? how do you know what is soft or hard without touching hands? how do you know your structure holds without anyone giving you pressure/pushing or testing/touching you? impossible to learn wing chun without the presence of a sifu.

[xxdjcharlierockxx]

hey guys im new to the videos here and new to wing chun all together. i was following the conversation here and wanted to add...

its prob why they created the wooden dummy to practice by yourself,to repeat your forms/drills n so on? while i will admit you need hands on with a sifu to correct anything you might be doing wrong in order for you to advance,doing drills/forms will increase understanding,speed,strength etc

shaolin salute 0)

[phoenixifist]

ppol who learn the wooden dummy has already advanced knowledge in wing chun. progression is level 1 to level 2 to level 3 & so on. dummy form is level 5. dummy is not exactly a substitute to a partner because it has its own moves & merits u wont find with a partner. u dont kick or punch ur partner full power but u can with a dummy. teaches unique moves u can only find on a dummy form but applicable with a partner.

all part of making wing chun more complete system. then u move on to weapons.

[xxdjcharlierockxx]

ahhh i see. ty for the correction and explanation !shaolin salute 0)

[chinaboxer]

first of all, kung fu is not a "method" of fighting, it's a generic term which only means "accomplishment through great effort" which can refer to ANY subject and not just fighting. Wing Chun IS a specific "method" of fighting that is historically documented roughly 400 years ago.

[chinaboxer]

who created it is irrelevant, but what is, is that SOMEONE created it. wing chun did not evolve over 5thousand years from the best cherry picked by shaolin masters from many forms into one. this isn't true at all. i guess my point is, that Wing Chun is a specific "method" of martial arts that was created about 400 years ago by a very intelligent person, and has since been passed down over the years to what we have today.

[chinaboxer]

the "creator" of the "method" had to figure out all of this and a way to practice developing their skills, without the help of someone to say "do it this way, or do it that way", they used their brain and then found others to practice with and to help refine their "method". i'm definitely not saying it's easy to do without a "hands on" sifu, but i wouldn't say it's impossible.

[chinaboxer]

lastly, has wing chun "method" really improved over the years? or have we just "copy & paste" the original method. i think Ng Mui would want us to not follow in her footsteps but seek what she sought.

[phoenixifist]

there are no written documents about wing chun. it was passed down only thru sifu student basis. plus wing chun was also protected by secrecy, even deliberate sabotage to protect its real form. even today real shaolin kung fu remains in shaolin and the ones they teach outside shaolin are the watered down or basic garbage version. even today there are so many watered down versions of wing chun.

even yip man did not learn wing chun thru books only thru his sifus. again sifu to student basis.

[chinaboxer]

like i said before, i do agree with you that it is extremely difficult to learn without a "hands on" sifu. but impossible?

[phoenixifist]

hehehe i get you.. i know what you mean and not to worry its only my personal opinion. u dont have to agree and no one has to agree. i talk of my own experience. when i heard about wing chun i went and bought videos, books, magazines and i studied them over and over for 3 yrs. i thought i learnt something. but when i touched hands with a sifu then i realised i did not learn anything. then i realised its impossible to learn wing chun without a guidance and instructions of a sifu.

[chinaboxer]

don't think that i'm trying to attack you because i'm not. i really learned alot from this discussion which is IMO priceless. i want open debate on my channel and i appreciate your thoughts and comments!

[chinaboxer]

you're wrong, there ARE written documents about wing chun, the historical documents start with Leung Jan around the 1800's.

and if i were to believe everything you say, and i believe that there are no documents of wing chun and that it was created over 5000 years of kung fu progress by many kung fu masters, let's say i completely believe every bit of what you say, then tell me, what is the "real wing chun" and what is the "watered down wing chun"?

[chinaboxer]

don't get me wrong, i do believe that there's alot of sub par wing chun understanding in the world, and i'm not trying to say that i know the "truth" cause i don't. but i think what makes wing chun sub par is when a sifu "contradicts" the concepts and principles which is the "heart" of wing chun and not chi sau as you pointed out earlier.

[phoenixifist]

i also noticed from your earlier videos that you actually practice hard wing chun. i did not know what hard WC was but my sifu told me he taught it to one of my sihings. now that i have completed the system, i undertstand now. as far as i can see you practice HARD wing chun and it can be defeated by SOFT wing chun or vice versa. u might not be aware of it but it exist. u obviously wont know what i am talking about until you touch hand with me or any of my kung fu brothers..or with my sifu.

[chinaboxer]

come on, man. do you really think i don't know what you're talking about when you say "hard" or "soft" wing chun? Hawkins Cheung teaches both methods but he refers to them as "heavy" and "light". right now, in my life, at this time, the "heavy" method works for me, but like i always say, the method will most likely change in the future as i get older.

[chinaboxer]

your sifu also had to experience and practice the "heavy" method or else how can he teach it to a student? this doesn't mean one is superior to the other, just that as he's gotten older, his "method" has most likely changed. like i always say, if it works for you, then keep doing it.

[chinaboxer]

and this is just my opinion, but i think you have to go through the "heavy" method first, especially if you are young, and as you continue your martial arts journey as you get older, the method naturally becomes "softer" or "lighter".

[phoenixifist]

thats real easy. touch hands with them then you know who has the real deal.

the problem is even in yip man's lineage are not all the same.

there are many of yip mans lineage there in USA. if you try to touch hands with everyone masters then you can make a list who has the real one. not all of them are the same. you will be surprised what you will find out.

you are lucky to have a good sifu.. not every1 is as lucky as you.

im a yip man lineage too but my WC is not the same as yours.

[chinaboxer]

your comment here is very narrow minded, who's to say who knows the "real deal"? this mind set is the very reason for all the nonsense bickering within the wing chun community. i do agree with you that in ip man's lineage, they are not all the same on the "inside" but they are exactly the same on the "outside".

[chinaboxer]

but that's what i find to be fascinating about wing chun, that within the confined structure, many different "methods" come about, why? because we are all different, some are physically stronger, some weaker, some taller, some shorter, some faster, some slower, and as a result they create their own "method" within the confines of the structure.

[chinaboxer]

so who are you or I or anyone else to say that they are "right" or "wrong"? that's ridiculous thinking because we are all unique and have unique strengths and weaknesses and as we get older, those strengths and weaknesses change and as a result, we must also change.

"running water never grows stale." - Bruce Lee

[phoenixifist]

discussion is good but i think this one is going the wrong way. and actually there are right ways and wrong ways in wing chun.

when someone is doing it the wrong way we exploit it and when they do it the right way its either you are in trouble or find an answer quick.

on the other hand all wing chun whatever level is good. but there are better than others but generally all good and no bad ones. i may use the word crap but its only an opinion to make a point. hehehe

[phoenixifist]

i practice yip man wing chun ALSO i practice leung jan's gulao style wing chun. i did not see any book. i learnt leung jan's method thru my sifu... sifu learnt it from his sifu and yet still no books... still sifu to student basis. thats the tradition.

my sifu still teaches it the way his sifu taught him. tradition still lives on... in us.

[chinaboxer]

just curious, is the Yip Man method different or the same as the Leung Jan's method?

[phoenixifist]

when Dr Leung Jan retired to his village, he taught a different method of wing chun. its has many names but gulao wing chun is the most common name. its also called side body wing chun also called pien san.

i has only one form but longer than 108 movements.not the same as the 3 hand forms but some elements are familiar. i believe this is the original form before it got broken down into 3 hand forms.

but leung jan taught the classical wing chun we know 2day before he moved to his village.

[RyzER617]

This is False information.

there are only two known side Facing styles. Yeun kay San and Pin Sun [pien san]. After that its all watered down bullshit.

THERE ARE NO FORMS IN THESE--only San Sik [separate hands] consisting of 12,36, or 40 "points" depending on the system. Whatever you learned is pretty suspect to me. There are many who claim to teach "pien san"-but most of it is phoney.

Care to tell me your exact "pien san""lineage?

[RyzER617]

Phoenixfist:

"Care to tell me your exact "pien san""lineage?"-

These posts arent lining up correctly. Ill reeinterate my question because you said you learned "Pien San" in one long form (as i said /Gulao/Pien San/Pin sun/Yeun Kay San have NO forms.

[phoenixifist]

i know what i learnt and you obviously dont.

my gulao lineage is on my channel. the problem is there are things that can be shown on youtube but i dont need to do that. i speak for myself and if you have the time and money i can show you. im here in london just give me a call. i give you details when you are here. u can meet my sifu and my brothers as well. we all do gulao and do forms and chi sao gulao system also. the gulao i see on youtube are all rubbish not the one we do.

[phoenixifist]

how dare you say false information. if you dont know you better shut your trap.

if you want information ask properly. you are entitled to your knowledge but its limited.

if you have an open mind then you may learn something. our form is called dai lim tao meaning BIG idea. tell me how can i make these up? obviously you have no clue and have no respect.

besides wing chun has many lineages not only yip man not just yeun kay san.

i still give my... respect.

[RyzER617]

"how dare you say false information. if you dont know you better shut your trap"...

LMFAO--I TRAIN WITH A PIN SUN WING CHUN AUTHORITY--AND HIS NAME IS JIM ROSELANDO. MY SIGONG IS G-MASTER FUNG CHUN'S NEPHEW WHO IS STILL ALIVE. YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN GRASSHOPPER WHEN IT COMES TO SIDE FACING WC. I SEEN YOUR VIDS AND YOUR FOOTWORK IS FKING ATROCIOUS.

[phoenixifist]

hahahaha. you are full of shit and so does your lineage who teach you same crap. your lineage is not the only one existing. thanks heavens for that.

i never made a video so how can you see my footwork. you are a big laugh. what can i say. i just have to have laugh at you. hahaha but not the whole fung family only your sifu and your lineage. what a joke.

u dont know anything im glad i dont know & i dont want to know your lineage. everything is about forms & you dont have one so u dont exist

[phoenixifist]

imagine doing yip man's lineage without sui lim tao form, chum kui form, buill jee form, wooden dummy form, pole form and knives form.

gulao has hand form as well as dummy form and pole form and knives form. separate from traditional wing chun but complete fighting system just the same. from the forms are applications, theories and principles behind them.

i dont know what you are learning but im sure its NOT complete system.. one of many incomplete wing chun system flying about.

[runelord37]

no bit of knowledge shared or wisdom attempted to instill is wasted. whatever does not change grows stagnant and therefore dies. i everything evolves from everything else, just as all self defense forms evolve from human confrontation as well as imgaination and sometimes...pure kinetic genius. our energy flows through our spirits and while the form might be improtant...is the intent behind that act of funneling that really matters.intent and pure spirit bless us all. great video btw :)

[hardfugoo1]

@runelord37 Well said, cheers.

[chinaboxer]

thank you for the kind words, peace!

[IgaShinobis]

Hey Jin,i m sorry i cant made any donation(i m just 14,lol)but when the website in up...i will try to promote it to my school...Peace!

[chinaboxer]

bah, no worries, keep practicing and keep learning, that's the most important thing. take care and peace!

[chinaboxer]

nice, keep practicing and let me know how it works out for you, peace!

[chinaboxer]

when a tiger stalks it's prey in the thick brush, it has to "hide" it's power, by "shrinking" but behind it's structure lies a very confident "spirit". it does all this to get "close" to it's prey, but if it showed any power at all, while it's getting close, it would never land a strike, because the prey would see it coming a mile away.

[chinaboxer]

so during a confrontation, "conceal" your power by "shrinking", but this doesn't mean the spirit, the spirit must always be confident.

when a cobra coils and hoods up, is it afraid of you? no, it's ready, if you get close, it kills you, if you back away, there's no confrontation, but the decision is up to you, the cobra just maintains a "ready" position.

[sonnak]

Very awesome, thanks guys. Great to see all of you at once.

[chinaboxer]

i agree, they need to practice more! =D

[hiddenwingchun]

good footwork coverage.

i also like when you explained why we stand on neutral position. a lot of people do not believe that anyone can fight in a neutral position. to everyone they have to be in boxer stance or forward stance fighting position.

respect

[chinaboxer]

yea, alot of "ring fighters" don't understand that concept, of "hiding your power" within a neutral or seemingly non-aggressive stance.

[ataksch]

that was a very educational video

[chinaboxer]

for me as well, each video helps me to improve how to "convey" an idea or concept or movement in such a limited time for everyone of mixed levels of training.

[RoaringTiger281]

Another quality lesson Jin thanks to you and the guys!

[chinaboxer]

thanks for your support, peace!

[isnametaken]

Nice tutorial. Thanks.

[chinaboxer]

glad you're enjoying it, peace!

[sild123]

jin, can you recomend me another ufc fights that i can watch and learn? the machida vs rashad one is quite great. thanks!

[mrobin723]

Any Machida fight is great to watch. While I'm not Jin and there are possibly better fights for reference, I recommend Machida vs. Ortiz, because you can see just how frustrated Ortiz becomes when faced with Machida's distance tactics.

[archers101]

thank you again is all that i can say:)

[chinaboxer]

you're welcome!

[sild123]

lol, another motofox? anyways, nice job jin! and, oh, just my thought, there IS application, but i think, there is no 'technique', something like pre-set movement. what you're audience usually ask is you to show them some example of what you're teaching. chisao perhaps? well, just my opinion. keep it up jin! regards

[chinaboxer]

yea, i understand what you're saying, this video is just the isolation of the movement so that beginners can practice without any touch resistance. later, we will get into "why" this movement is done and "when".

[chinaboxer]

thanks!

[industrial6824]

Jin, thanks again. Just sent you a donation as my appreciation for the videos. Let me know if you need anything else bro!

[chinaboxer]

you're the first to donate and i really do appreciate that, thanks! it'll go into the piggy bank until i have enough to get an HD camcorder, which will help improve the video quality for everyone. thanks again and peace!

[ef8crxb16]

you are the best teacher ive seen! you really break it down when i get some more money i will donate some for ur website Thanks

[chinaboxer]

thanks for the kind words and your future donation is greatly appreciated, thanks and peace!

[industrial6824]

All you guys who bring negativity and try and call out Jin and challenge his theories should just go watch some other videos on some other pages. We don't really need that shit here. Jin is a classical and excellent wing chun instructor with amazing skill and insight into the art. He also takes the time out of his life to provide us with these valuable videos...and instead of saying thank you - you f'n insult him and all his loyal fans. So do us all a favour and f off. Fine work Jin Thanks!

[chinaboxer]

thanks, man. it's the support of subscribers such as yourself that encourage me to keep going. thanks and peace!

[murray3736]

Thank you Jin! It's great to see that not only are your thoughts, ideas and Wing Chun high quality, it's great to see that you are so enthusiastically sharing your knowledge! Cheers (A fellow wing chun guy)

[chinaboxer]

glad you're enjoying them, peace!

[Transatlanticism04]

Love all your video's,keep up the good work!

[chinaboxer]

appreciate that, peace!

[RyzER617]

8:50

Jin--i'll have to disaggree with you there. As soon as someone LAYS a HAND on me--this is A_S_S_A_U_L_T! You have every right to protect yourself. If that videao was shown in a court of law youd be justified whoopin his ass.

Secondly--I disagree with you theory of letting your oponent attack first-then going to your "V" step". Gary Lam would toungue lash you to smitherenes! ATTACK FIRST! If someone was threatening me in my "Personal Zone"-- Id whoop his ass after a warning.

[RyzER617]

..as far as Motofag is talking about--you can expect him to try to trash you as he is a fking moron. As you know I'm a Pin Sun [Side Facing] guy and I can't comment as to your explanation as I have no idea about your "Forward Facing" footwork. Pin Sun theory is vastly more simple-credit goes to Dr. Leung Jan [Yip Man's SiGong].

However I'll give you 4 Stars because IMHO it can be applied to Street Fighting rather easily--with a few mods to taste.... Again--this is my opinion.

[chinaboxer]

as long as you're moving foward in your search of finding your own way, that's all that matters, if it coincides with my own or not is irrelevent. keep going!

[peposo7]

Hey! I would like to know where can I find info on that side-facing stance being more simple by Dr.Leung Jan! In terms of what exactly he teached, its hard to find! :)

[RyzER617]

go to apricotforesthall dotcom to find out more about Pin Sun. Master Jim Roselando is a world wide authority and a really nice guy and a Kung Fu asswhoopin Machine. Drop him a line-tel him I sent you so i can get the free shirt! Yeun Kay San is also Dr. Leung Jan-but its more blended-but still nasty. He can give you info on all that depending where you live.

[taeim43]

Bullseye! :)

[chinaboxer]

lol..good one. peace!