Anything that went agains what Jesus said was not accepted. It was't offical till the 3rd Cen but they only accepted what the church has always used nothing else. 2th they only accepted it if it was well known it was one of the writings of 1 of t 12 Apostles. They where divinly inspired to write it. The Koran contadicts both the Hebrew prophets, Jesus n his apostles. This makes the Koran wrong,sorry if that offends you. Go and read and see t importance of t cross and ressur there t way of God
Dr Badawi trie to say the writings of the N T have been changed. This is competley untrue. Historical evidence shows they have not been changed although they have been translated into many languages no important meanings have been changed. The Koran was not written down until the 3rd Capihs so it could easily been wrong. The N T was written 30 yrs after Christ's death. The Church only put in the N T what the early believers held what had been accepted as the real teachings of Jesus
There where good points on each side yet it is clear that Craig won the debate. Dr Badawi accepts the part of the Gospels but twists the parts he doesn't accept. His arguments where weak. The whole Gospel of John is a declaration of Jesus's divinity. Yes it says he was a man but in Jn 8 Jesus claims to have pre-existed. Dr B says the Hadith are divine intepertations in the Prophets own words yet try's to write of the very same argument when it comes to Jesus' intimate disciples.
statement by craig-response by badaw-response to badawi's statements that he misinterpreted-badawi refuting those statements-craig repeating the process-badawi repeating the process. i find only the first part of the exchnage to be the good sum of both. the other seemed like craig saying something and badawi refuting it and craig doing it again sometimes of the same statements. i found this not to be neither useful nor informative for both faiths.
I personally don't see the point of presenting this to the end of the debate, knowing that there will be no response. Also he didn't answer the rest, so we have a crucified Christ. and probably risen. While this serves to support the point that Jesus is human, to which all Christians believe, this can't prove Qur'anic Jesus Leaving aside that he didn't has defended the Jesus of the Koran. It doesn't help attack the biblical Jesus and not provide defense of the Quran, cuz it doesn't make it true.
Is notable what things he says, he says Dr Craig you have the burden of proof. That's absurd, both of them have the burden of proof, to show that one conception is correct. Furthermore he claim that Jesus was human, and that is a statement, therefore, you have to give some reason to think that is correct, not presupose that the muslim view is correct at least we show that is not.
And moreover Badawi says when he talks about the jews, who took up stones to kill Jesus. He says that if a man says that he is god, then all could say that he was crayz and could left him alone. So if he grant this, he can't say that Jesus don't afirm divinity and thereof don't be divine. He collapsed his own accusatory argument.
I don't know why badawi accuses Dr Craig to say something that he never said. Dr Craig didn't say that Jesus striking was found in the pages of the quran. Moreover, i think badawi seems to be in another tuning. As if he wasn't in the debate, it seems that he doesn't hear what Craig says. He didn't refute anything. and misinterpreted things.
Dr. Badawi raises the point that the Trinity is not even in the Tanakh, or OT. He should probably try and explain Genesis' "Let us make man in our image" in hebrew as well as Deuteronomy 6 "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad" - Hear, oh Israel, the Lord our God, He is One, with "echad" meaning (very literally) a unity... hmmm...
I think Badawi really doesn't grasp that Christian's believe that Jesus was fully man as well as fully God...if he wanted to debate he should have argued about that rather than say "Jesus prayed to God"...because, well, of course Jesus prayed to the Father. Craig explained his view on the nature of God-man previously, and yet Badawi ignores it.
@abacabbabacabb1 Watch Badawi vs Dr Anis. Dr anis is far better than craig in debating. But badawi defeated him like a child in 4 day debate. Nearly all of the points which both sides didn't even touch are completely discussed in IT.
@HLVsasori i do not deny that he is best christian debater but he talk about religious philosophy and he is Good in proving the existence of God. But tbh, he can't prove Christian Trinity theory. As i mentioned earlier, Dr Anis and Dr Badawi. This current debate is NOTHING as compare to that debate of em.
@vicachcoup naik is only good in rhetoric, he's not a serious philosopher.. yah he has good talking points but he cannot frame his arguments in a logically coherent manner
Jamal Badawi wins this debate. Craig starts to sound nauseatingly repetitive. This is an old debate – but Craig is best against Hitchens and hopefully – Richard Dawkins in the near future. ;)
@sethdbeeb yes and if you see the word "HE" and "HIMSELF" you will notice 8 masculine nouns... are you referring that to the ghost ? How is the ghost said to be that ? Think about it bro, its Talking about Mohamad (PBUH)
Also, the orignal Hebrew Bible, clearly has the word "Mohamadem" ...This is more than sufficient prove brothers..Also did Jesus say he was the last prophet /
@traveling bro retribution of sins is that it is forgiven if repented. God just wants u to accept his divinity..
@travelinghermit: Also consider this sight, if you are married, and you have your own Son .. will you sacrifice him, slaughter him for the sake of others... if asked ?
Jesus said, for i have alot of things to tell u, but i cant bare them now, for HE shall come and HE shall say HIMSELF, for HE will not say anything from himself but what will be Told to HIM..
who is he referring to ? Ofcourse Mohamad (PBUH) .. Who is the last prophet and Quran clearly reveals about Jesus & Mary & all Prophets..
@travelinghermit Thanks for clearing that up ! so basically unrepentant will still go to hell ? thts wat you are saying right ?
However, it still is not carrying sense. Sins of Adam, were they carried forward to humanity ? No he had to repent ! Y would God want to sacrifice his only son to make it right for others ? He is all merciful ? Wont he simply forgive upon asking for forgiveness ?
So if Jesus is innocent & pure, y is he crucified /sacrificed ? is tht Justice to jesus (PBUH ) ?
It completely illudes my mind Why Dr Craig doesn't understand one simple logic (in all my due respect). tht is to say why would God be "All-Loving" in this that he will forgive the sinners also cos Christ has already taken the punishment !
Doesnt tht come to mind as Morally inadequate cos, tht suggests, to all Christian faith followers to do watever SIN they have to as they r all going to Heaven ? What is the purpose of this world if no one is to be tested of their deeds ? plsss..do explain !
1. the law requires innocent blood for the remission of sin
2. All will be judged according to the law
3. In his current state Man is incapable of being perfect
4. Man requires perfect sacrifice
5. There is a difference between repentant and unrepentant sinners.
You make the assumption that they are the same which results in fallacy. You are lost because you assume christianity says that god will save the unrepentant.
@Maqyt And you would call the Muslim God just? He requires only that sinners repent, turn to him and live by the law. But where is the retribution for sins already committed? If your god does not reward all deeds appropriately then he is not just.
Dr. Craig lacks logic only when he debates Muslims, because Islam is rational, and he finds it difficult fighting against his own logic to confute the logical arguements put forth by Islam.
The reason Badawi wins the argument is not because he is a great legendary outspoken scholar, but cos ne1 standing against Quran / Islam cannot stand for long..Afterall how can you refute a word of God to the word of Human ! Humans mind r limited and so the edited Bible can never reach the glory of Quran !
I am outsider to both these religeons but I heard many times from non-believers who studied religeons that Coran is well written but falls short on simple human quality as mercy and honesty. Whereas Bible has full of contradictions and inconsistancy which accounts up to 316 or so. Followers of Corans are clear cut when it comes to directives, but Bible followers doesn't have clear picture of Bible because it is not well written and well-versed person would see all mistakes. Simple golden rule no
@symmetry08 The Qur'an has major problems. It contains the infancy gospel of Thomas' account of Jesus creating a bird from clay and making it come to life. This gospel is a well-known forgery, written nearly 200 years after Jesus' death, and yet it is included in the Qur'an as if it's true. The Qur'an also makes the assertion that the Christian 'trinity' consists of God as Father, Jesus as son, and Mary as mother ... which is utterly false. Lastly, most biblical contradictions are reconcilable.
It's funny how he added that last point so conveniently that Craig could not debate it because he doesn't have time for rebuttal. That's really cowardly.
I believe that there wasn't a clear winner. Both were very respectful and also both gave very good arguments. But as a catholic, I must say that JB's interpretations of the Bible verses he mentioned were obviously misunderstood. I don't know anything about the Coran, to be honest, but JB didn't corrected any of WLC interpretations. Anyway, God has a salvation plan for everyone. God bless.
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Jamal Badawi is very well spoken and had facts to back up his argument. Dr. Craig kept talking about the same 3 topics. Even if there was another reply answer Dr. Craig would not have been able to come back with any good arguments on Jamal Badawi's closing remarks. Jamal Badawi won this hands down!
Dr. Badawi doesn't seem to listen when he describes how the story of Jesus striking a child to death isn't in the Qur'an. Dr. Craig was stating that if you affirm the legendary gospel of Thomas as true, stories of which are found within the Qur'an, then you must affirm that the document is inspired by God. The consequent of such a categorical statement implies that Christ striking the child to death is true.
Badawi lost this debate in such a terrible manner.
@dimic Although some of Dr. Craigs' assertions aren't completely consistent (Paul quotes from Greek writers, and few people would ascribe inspiration to those), they hold much more water than Dr. Badawis'. The fact that he misinterprets direct rebuttals time and time again, and doesn't concede any points that he has lost quite badly undercuts his side of the argument.
As I Christian I have obvious bias, but Dr. Badawi did many of his arguments a disservice during this debate.
@dimic what badawi said was that you there was was a form of truth in that gospel not that it was authentic.that was earlier in the debate but it seems doctorl craig ignored that statemment.
`Abdullah reported that Allah's Messenger ... said: "Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood [sperm?], after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends his angel to it ..."
Go ahead and ask any neutral embryologist whether this is true: That sperm would hold for 40 days, and then turned into clot of blood..
If you think the debate gone trough with another winer than a wider point of view for both religions, i think you didn't happen to think after any of those arguments.
@jum187 Badawi was crushed. And Craig was generous enough to respect a blabber like Badawi; had Craig been too cruel, he would have raised even more serious moral dilemmas in the Quran itself like Muhammad sexing a prepubescent girl or lying to advance Islam. If Craig did so, Badawi would have suffered a perhaps more humiliating defeat.
And if you want to learn the truth of Keith Moore's 'amazing discovery in the Koran', which Badawi refers to (9/11, at 4.00), check this out on Youtube;
Famous embryologist confirms miracle of Quran and becomes Muslim 2011. Scientist convert to Islam.
WLC was completely unruffelled whereas JB was losing it towards the end. I couldn't believe it when he brought up that charlatan Keith Moore. Miracles in the Koran my eye! It always astonishes me how someone as highly intelligent as Badawi could be so deluded. But such is the nature of cults I suppose.
unreliable*also it wasnt mentioned con the Gospel on John in chapter 1 when it says that the word was Jesus, and the word was in the biggining with God and the word is God.off corse badawi cannot validate Jesus as God, because the old testament speaks of a new convenant in Isaiah brought by the messiah,and if he accepts Jesus as prophet then he must accept that no more prophets would be sent after him because thats what he said.therefore mohamed cannot be considered as prophet and sent byGod
Badawi cant acknowledge the fact that the coran being incorrect about the facts on Jesus and also that the coran was not preserved as the bible or writen by wittnesses of mohameds teachings, renders it as completely unaccurate and reliable as a book..yes, it contains the penthatude, and because of that you can prove that God speakes in plural, HE has been seen by men as oposed as he stated. Moses saw Gods back, Jacob saw God, fought and lived..abraham saw God and 2more before he destroyed Sodom
@GamerFTW21 : Yes I care, of course. But I don't see people in hell but those who are really driving believers towards atheism. One may keep his faith but avoid destroying others faith, that's what I think. If debates do not lead to a mutual understanding it does not worth anything. As a Muslim, I accepted every monotheistic religion and the prophets. God does not punish a human being because he believes in Him. Rather than opposing we should work together because real evil is winning every day.
@GamerFTW21 : Well Deedat is dead and my point is what he tried to communicate to us. But I still think that it is a mistake to try to convince or oppose christians. They should be left with their beliefs. For me, sharing one God, the same one is enough, if of course a christian consider Allah as the same God. If not, even the debate is useless :-)
@GamerFTW21 : May be, it was then other ways of debating. But Deedat brought many lights to Muslims, specially warning them to read everything, to be able to talk with a prepared opponent and not to be afraid to investigate and even learn Greek. However, Islam is lacking of debater even if it does not seem to be the case.
@GamerFTW21 : Yes indeed, I did not say otherwise for all debates :-). But Shabir is very scientific and that his power. He does not get intimidated if facts and history are involved.
No, I don't think he went away from the topic. The problem is the perception of God by Christians. A debate is always hard to maintain because each side thinks that the other is talking about non-related issue. If a Muslim or a jew claims that God is one with no associates... it is clear. It is like each one is talking and debating in a different level.
John the Baptist insisted that Jesus was not in need of baptism (meaning He was sinless). Jesus' choice to be baptised was only to fulfill the law. He didn't need to be baptised due to His divinity, but insisted upon it because it was His duty as a man. Fully God and fully man. Son of God, Son of Man.
@THEEVANTHETOON : He is tired of convincing Christians that they got away from God. Jews and Muslims have the true concept of God and none of them is changing that. Also, it is YOUR perception that he is desperate: you are not familiar with the way of speaking of eastern people. They are not evangelical stars, they speak with their heart and with emotions. Peace.
@THEEVANTHETOON : no, I think he tries to make his point about the uniqueness of God and he did. The rest is conjecture as to know if Paul really saw Jesus, if witnesses are real witnesses..and that will never be proved.
seem like Bawdawi left the main evidences for the end, to conclude to show that Jesus was a messenger and not divine... well done Badawi... Dr craig tried hard, good speaker... but all his evidences came to nothing right at the end.. good upload.
@Dissimul Well what you said about the beauty of the Quran... It truly is an error free peice of beautiful Arabic text, but when you add the fact that the Prophet Muhammed couldn't read nor right adds some interest to it
I have great respect for both of them, but I have to say that through out this whole debate, Dr. Craig try's to prove his belief of Jesus (PBUH) through the Bible... Lol he's trying to convince a NON-Christian that jesus (PBUH) is divine through a book that the Muslims don't even find is authentic! Thats like me telling an atheist that God exists, when the atheist asks why, I simply say "Well it says that in the Quran!" Its not a valid way to prove a point
@DORC101 Thats a misunderstanding. Craig doesnt use the authority of the Bible to support his points, he uses the historical authenticity of Paul's letters and the earliest gospel manuscripts (which were records of independent oral traditions written long before Constatine included them in the Bible, while the eyewitnesses they name were still alive, and while Christians were a small, persecuted band).
He's using them, not as divine documents, but as historical records, to support his arguments
@relarerfhjk Well if you look at it that way you are completly correct, but i recommend you to do your research with an open mind. I wanted to send you some links of videos that are about ancient bibles that were found in palestine but for some reason youtubes not allowing me, ill try to send you the links seperatly. Until then Peace
@DORC101 I have researched with an open mind, I was referring to the fact that most NT historians accept that the gospels are historically reliable. For example, Gerd Ludeman is not only a top NT scholar, he's also an atheist! Yet he has written "it may be taken as historically certain that the disciples and others had experiences of appearances of Jesus after his death" even though Ludeman thinks these were hallucinations, he doesnt dispute the historicity of the gospel accounts!
KORAN ONLY FOR ARAB SPEAKING PEOPLE, Y IS THAT?2 Peter ". there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping
No the Quran isn't for ARAB speaking people only, it was revealed in that language from Allah... exactly the same why the bible was not revealed in English u silly man lol... tell me, what language was the original bible revealed in?... English or Aramaic? God tells us in the Quran: "And We have not sent you except as a MERCY TO MANKIND" (Qur'an 21:107) Compare that to what bible says: "It is not meet to take the children's(Jews) bread and cast it to the DOGS (none-Jews) (Matt 15:24-26)
@DiLxThief Be respectful of me like I am of you, I am not silly. I speak the word of GOD. My language is not English, I am not American. Isaiah 9:6 says : For to us a child is born,to us a son is given,and the government will be on his shoulders.And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
(This was written about 600 to 700 years before JESUS was born by the prophet ISAIAH. )
Mr Badawi fails to show Koran verses to state his beliefs instead he relies on his own judgment and opinion. Where are the verse that are in your Koran???
THE RELIGION OF JESUS IS NO RELIGION!!!! JESUS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION, YOU HAVE IT WRONG. INVITE HIM IN YOUR HEART AND LIFE ONLY THEN WILL YOU KNOW HIM AND WHO IS REALLY IS
Is that why Jesus said "GO NOT into the way of the GENTILES!!!... who are the GENTILES? the GENTILES Jesus is referring to are the None-Jews... But go ye rather unto the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL (ie only go to the Jews) (Matt:10:5-6)
Dr. Badawi mentioned many Quranic verses and Ahadith to prove his point, he even used ration and logic unlike Craig... Craig believes a rapist and a pious person both deserve to be in heaven without punishment LOL
@DiLxThief You dont understand the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ (YaHuShua). he was crucified for the sins of all, by faith in him our sins are washed away with his blood. He died for you, if you Repent of your sins no matter what they are , YaHuSHUA IS JUST AND WILL FORGIVE YOU. If you deny him you will suffer punishment indeed. 1 john 1 :19 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
YES JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE FLESH !!!!!! ALL GLORY BE TO GOD
JESUS IS GOD
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation
.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(the bible), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh(Jesus), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
THE HOLY BIBLE OF JESUS CHRIST THE WORD OF GOD WARNED ABOUT FALSE TEACHERS.
Mohamed lived after Jesus. The chapters of the Old Testament were written over a thousand years before Jesus was born. The Bible was written several centuries before the Quran.
That is, are there are two kinds of carnal humans those with the heart of an adult and the mind of a child, or the heart of an adult and the mind of an adult and there are two kinds of spiritually minded humans, those who have the heart of a child and the mind of a child and those who have the heart of a child and the mind of a mature adult. The only acceptable choice to a committed Christian is the last.
Trio implies three parts, God has a Will, a Word and a Voice and we being made in God's image have a will, a word and a voice, the will is in our nature, our word is an index of our character, and our voice is an index of our degree of volition for good or evil. We describe the part of us that houses our nature as our hear, the character as our soul, the personality or volition as our mind and our strength depends on whether we are ruled by inclination or principle which is the fourth principle
perpendicular to each other. We are all familiar with the terms,physical world, mental world, spiritual world and clelestial world, and have five senses with which to function in the physical,seven powers of thinking:noticing, noticing differences in apparent likenesses,noticing likenesses in apparent differences, categorizing or putting order into all of this, prioritizing,applying and metabolizing all of this food for thought, then nine powers of volition, and sixtieen levels of phys existence
Jesus as our Creator tells us what we are made of a heart, soul, mind and strenght and we are to worship God with all of these four faculties. 1 John1:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and teh Holy Ghost: and these three are one." So the term God refers to the relationship betweem three infinite and uncreate Alpha and Omegas, first and lasts, beginnig and endings, just as the term cube refers to the ideal relationship between three infinite straight lines
The Old Testament has apparent contradictions which are not resolved until the New Testament was written.Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image..." and verse 27 "And God made man in is own image..." Colossians 1:16, John1:1-3 and Hebrews 1:2, all declare that Christ, the Word, is God and made all things that were made. So in verse 26 all three are discussion but the executive creation only refers to Jesus. So the Lord God in Genesis 2:7 is Jesus. We are made in the image of God
my christherian brotherin why do you insult god saying he has abegotten son,jesus was born like any other human being,he had to come out of 9 months.quran says he was born by gods word,which doesnt mean god sent his sperm or spirit,but his commandon up which thisworld functions
And i pose one simple question which in my life no christhian by name can answer me,...............................................god died,then he got resurrecte ,
@jspankin first: the word "Allah" is generaly used for god in Arabic languages. arabe christians and jews call their god "Allah",, its not just an islamic word
as for ur arguments: god started christianity with jesus as his prophet, he didnt trick them, they misunderstood and deceived, as u would say about jews,, why did they kill jesus? why did god deceive them?
2-the language: God's word is the same , but it reaches each prophet in the language he understands
@plzgoaway Allah is a MODERN translation for god but Allah is the NAME of a specific god in pre-Islamic Arabia. Arab Christians/Jews use "Allah" for God today because it evolved to mean god after the spread of Islam and all translations of the bible to Arabic happened after islam
The KORAN SAYS Allah is the greatest deceiver for causing people to believe Jesus died when he didn't.
IN ISLAM the Koran is Arabic only and no translation is the true Koran. All Muslims are supposed to learn Arabic
@jspankin yes, Allah is the name of god, but as for arabe Christians , they claim thats the name of god, and its not just translation, but i dont stress this point, cuz i frankly dont care about that, but there were arabic versions of the bible b4 islam
as for " the great deceiver" wht??? where is quran god says he his a deceiver for causing jesus to be falsely believed as sth other than himself?,
and koran as a holy word is in arabic, u can translate the meaning to understand,
@jspankin language continue: god sent many prophets, ones we know about and ones we dont, their are prophets who didnt speak hebrew nor aramaic
as for Ishmael: he was a prophet , just like isaac, and not god nor we differentiate between them, and gods lesson is, we sent many prophets to the people of israel, they never learn, and they keep killing prophets and saying bad stuff about god, so the last prophet , the seal will be in the line of ishmael
@plzgoaway IN ISLAM the true Koran exists IN ARABIC ETERNALLY with Allah in heaven. The Arabic language itself is considered to be holy. Yet Biblical God has no Arabic revelations.
Mohammad has zero (Monotheistic) prophets in his lineage (unless you consider Noah). Isaac and Ishmael were NOT prophets.
There is nothing reliable whatsoever to link Ishmael to Mohammad. Just him claiming to be descended from him 3000 years later. Abraham had other children
@jspankin stays in arabic, to be conserved and not lost in translation,, and the arabic langyage is not considered holy,, where do u get ur info?? as for the language part again, god simply deliver his word to his prophets in the langyage they understand,
muhammad is the descendant of ishmael , and both ishmael and isaac are prophets , and even if u consider them not,, then they r the sons of ibraham,, as for the line of muhammad,, in the arabe regions we know our lines till adam,,
@plzgoaway The Koran does not just stay in arabic, to be conserved, it exists eternally in heaven with Allah. That means before Adam was created and the Arabic language developed the Koran was already there in Arabic. Arabic is holy islam because Muslims consider the original Arabic verbal text to be the final revelation of God, Hence God speaks Arabic as his official languages. Muslims are supposed to learn Arabic to properly recite the Koran in that Language.
@jspankin since u like this point ill further explain: God's word (all) are preserved b4 time in heavnes, and we dont know wht was its language, and god is not bounded by language, and through time god sends his words to his prophets , piece by piece, until the final word is delivered , in arabic, and we beleive god talked personally to moses in his language, so we dont argue over trivial points like "language holiness" and ye,, all moslems must learn at least to read one passage of Quran
@plzgoaway God is not bound by language but Allah is. The Koran says the Koran is the Word of God. But the Bible says Jesus is the word of God. We the Koran Allah has is in Arabic. The Hebrew scriptures did not exist B4 time in heaven. It was written by men under the anointing and spirit of God. But the men wrote it based of their personal writing style, understanding, culture, experiences ect. Jesus is the word of God not the bible. The bible is a tool to get a revelation of who God is.
@jspankin if u read my comment, Allah is not bounded by language, and the hebrew scriptures (the ones sent from god) already existed in heavens, as for the other scriptures written by normal men , we dont beleive in them, i beleive every word said by moses, jesus,, not other"saints" who claim receiving words from god,
@plzgoaway part of the Islamic doctrine is to unite the world under one religion & language(Arabic).
Koran has a challenge to other non-Muslims to read the Koran & the reader would conclude that Koran is the most beautiful/literary superior of all books. this is supposed to prove the Koran is divine.
However some might honestly think Iliad, Shakespeare ect are literary superior to Koran. The response all Muslim apologist give is you have to read it in Arabic to see how beautiful it is.
@jspankin all that prove that Arabic is a beautiful rich language , not divine,, wht do u wanna prove? muslims dont say arabic is divine,, do u want to make it divine against our will?, what is the importance of a language!!
Arabic itself isn't divine but, The Koran in any language but ARABIC is not the Koran. Hence only the Arabic Koran is divine and all Muslims who recite the Koran by heart must do this in Arabic, ONLY ARABIC COUNTS. My point WAS that the IDEA that the Koran is so linguistically perfect it must be divine and the no one can ever write anything as beautiful as the Koran is a lie, it is stupid and it is a joke only taken seriously my biased Muslims.
@jspankin ,thanks u finally got it,, arabic is not divine, only the arabic quran is divine, and any translation, is just of meanings, but not as divine,, thats it,, as for the linguistic miracle,, u see it as a joke, cuz u r not arabe, but even non muslims, arabe scholars witness its perfectness ,, and u r no position to say its a lie, since u dont have the tools to judge on that point!!!
@plzgoaway It is a challenge for NON-Muslims.I have to read in Arabic to see it's beauty? That's how why I the idea Arabic is holy. Because only in this language I can see the linguistic beauty of the Koran. I don't think this makes sense at all. Many other books are beautiful in multiple languages. And the entire assertion of the challenge that it is impossible to write something as beautiful as the Koran and it has been tried and no one has ever been able to do it, is what I think is a joke.
@plzgoaway I don't see the Koran as a Joke at all. I see the claim of its linguistic literary "perfection" in terms of it's beauty(not just grammar) that no one has ever been able to write anything as beautiful as the Koran a joke. . I don't doubt that non-Muslims Arabs think the Quran is beautiful/ perfect, but I am certain if they really thought it was the MOST uniquely beautiful/ perfect thing in the world they would have converted to Islam by now after reading it.
@plzgoaway The very fact that there are non-Muslim Arabic speaking people who have access to and read the Koran is proof that the Koran is not as marvelous as Muslims imagine it to be.
I think Non-Christian people are more impressed with the bible than the Koran also. Everyone from Christians to Hindus to Buddhist to Rastafarians to Orisha devotees use the bible. Plus Jesus is taught to be a prophet or a god is all major religions. Even in Hinduism he is a God and in Buddhism he is a Buddha.
@plzgoaway I have no confidence Mohammad's claim to be deceded from Ishmael. That part of the world was populated before Abraham. There is no Ancient PRE-ISLAMIC document that reliably traces or connects Mohammad to Ishmael (if you have such a source kindly share it with me ). To a prophet you need a prophecy. Whats has Isaac or Ishmael prophetic to their people? They were not prophets. Only Jews have an ancient record of their entire history. Being a son doesn't make you a prophet.
@jspankin as i said, in this region we know our blood lines, as i can trace my blood line, with names till the time of ibraham and even b4, and even unbeleivers, christiians and jews at the time of muhammad dont deny this fact, as for proof, there is the family tree of muhammad till Abraham,, moreover, all arabe tribes of this region are descendants of Ishmael, he is the father of arabes,, then,, as soliman, isaac, jacob, joseph,,etc were prophets, so is Ishmael,
@plzgoaway Ishmael is the father of the Arabs according to the Koran and Muslim tradition only. This can not be shown beyond doubt. Huh The family of Mohammad. Any record that connects Adnan son of Add son of Send son of Napyot, son of Ishmael to Mohammad are ISLAMIC SOURCES. Written 200 years within the lifetime of Mohammad. There is no ancient PRE-ISLAMIC source that connect Ishmael to Mohammad. Joseph was a prophet. Not Issac or ishmael
@jspankin the trace of the blood line id PRE ISLAMIC,, and the christians and jews in Mecca and Medina that time acknowledged that , then wht is the proof that joseph was the son of jacob,, or any two of these prophets for that matter
@jspankin and btw, i just asked a christian friend of mine, and he told me he beleives both isaac and ishmael are prophets,,, i dont know if his church is different than yours or what, and ye,, being son doesnt make u prophet, only god makes you one,,,
@plzgoaway I would love to answer your arguments previously mentioned but you are throwing a lot at me. I guess the problem is the definition of a prophet . Unless you have a prophecy from God to deliver to the people. IMO you are not a prophet. Being highly regarded in the scripture/ Talking to God does not make you a prophet. God wants to talk to everyone but does that make us all prophets? NO. Which argument haven't I answered, (I don't know everything I only act like I do)
@jspankin prophet or messenger of god, that means u receive revelation from god through his archangel Gibrael, and both isaac and ishmael received revelations from god, i think wht u mean is the messengers who received books,, like moses , jesus and muhammad, well i dont know the difference in english but in arabic there is "rasool" messenger, holds book like moses. and "naby" a prophet with no book, but sent to remind his people
@plzgoaway All biblical prophets heard DIRECTLY from God himself at least at some point. I can't think of one who God never spoke to directly (except Mohammad).
Prophecy is not for private interpretation. All prophecies are for the people not for the prophet. Isaac and Ishmael never had such prophecies. What book did Jesus receive?
@jspankin we beleive , that all prophets received god's message through Gibrael,, and why didnt muhammad just say , i heard God,!!, beacause he is true!!, and muhammad talked to god directly in the miracle os "israa2 and mearage",
the book of jesus is "engeel" we translate it as "gosspels"
@plzgoaway Don't you supposedly believe Adam, Moses, Abraham and Jesus were Muslim prophets? Well guess what, they all spoke directly to God and God spoke directly to them. If Mohammad is the greatest and final prophet I would think it would follow simple protocol for God to speak directly to him. the Gospel Jesus preached was the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of heaven. It was written in his "hearts and soul" not in a book. Jesus was never given a book. Stop talking nonsense please.
@jspankin again, we dont beleive all the prophets heard from god directly,,but i believe muhammad talked to god (and met him) directly in a speacial occasion, which puts him above all,, as for the gospels,, try to open ur mind a little,, i dont mean a book like a physical object with papers, i mean a words,, like the torah with moses, the gospels with jesus, and the quran with muhammad
@plzgoaway Now you just said you don't believe all prophets heard directly from God. But you believe Muhammad talked to (and met him) directly in a special occasion. How does this put him above ALL? How? this is no way does that. It would at most put him equal to other you also meet God. And below those who committed no sin in the eyes of God. You view point of Mohammad is biased because you are a Muslim and not thing objectively.
@jspankin ah, replying to an earlier post of urs, u said muhammad commited sins, like praying for idols and drinking,etc,, that is utterly nonsense,, he never prayed to anything other than god, never drinked, never committed adultery, plz check ur sources
@plzgoaway Mohammad committed sins according to the Koran and has to the be forgiven. This is in the Koran. I never said he committed adultery or drank. I believe he was a pagan Arab before he became a Muslim. I believe he worshiped these Idols before becoming a Muslim. I said he was a warlord, a murderer, a rapist and a pedophile. Please check you sources and critically research the life of Mohammad. And don't do this research as a Muslim but as a student.
@jspankin dude, WHAT SINS did he commit according to Quran? wht nonsense is this??? thats rediculus,, and wht u believe is ur problem, but its a FACT he didnt pray to any stone,, for that matter, some ppl thought he was a christian b4 receiving the messsage from god , cuz of that,, What r ur sources, dude, even christians, jews, unbeleivers in madina, all say that too,, HE NEVER WAS A PAGAN, nor the other outrageous things u say,,
@plzgoaway Proof in the Koran that Muhammad had SIN and needed forgiveness.
40:55 Then have patience (O Muhammad). Lo! the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness of thy sin,
48:1-2 Lo! We have given thee (O Muhammad) a signal victory, That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favour unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path
47:19 So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin
@plzgoaway Bukhari’s Hadith 8.379: Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet used to say, "O Allah! I seek refuge with You from laziness and geriatric old age, from ALL KINDS OF SINS and from being in debt;...Allah! Wash away my sins with the water of snow and hail, and cleanse my heart from all the sins as a white garment is cleansed from the filth, and let there be a long distance between me and my sins, as You made East and West far from each other
@plzgoaway Bukhari’s Hadith 8.407: Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet used to invoke Allah with the following invocation: O my Lord! Forgive my sins and my ignorance and my exceeding the limits of righteousness in all my deeds .... O Allah. Forgive my mistakes, those done intentionally or out of my ignorance or without or with seriousness, and I confess that all such mistakes are done by me. O Allah! Forgive my sins of the past and of the future with I did openly or secretly.
Respond to this video... Some of the Koranic verses/ Hadith references were shorted by me so they could fit in the comment space. You can check them out fully on your own. But I think the only fair thing to do after reading the Koranic verses and Hadith references I wrote you, is conclude and admit that both the Koran and Hadith show that Muhammad had sin and needed forgiveness. The specific sins I will write in another comment. But I think I did mention them already to someone else.
@plzgoaway My mins is open. I was talking about when YOU SAID all prophets Received god's revelation through Gabriel. Then YOU SAID the book of Jesus is the gospel. That's why I asked what book did Jesus receive (from Gabriel). Jesus did not receive any book/ message/ gospel from any angel. Jesus got the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven from GOD himself. Jesus is the Gospel in fact. The first prophet to preach this message was John the Baptist. Then Jesus started to preach it.
@jspankin never talked to muhammad: god didnt talk directly to any of his prophets, except Moses, and that was one of his key miracles,, as for muhammad, like the other prophets , the message was through Gibrael.
Mecca was the holiest place way b4 muhammad,, it was the first house built on earth by the angels, and rebuilt by abraham and ishmael later , and we consider both locations sacred
@jspankin we beleive he didnt but even that,, god gave muhammad a higher honor,, he met him!!, in the trip of "israa' and mirage" god miraculously elevated muhammad to the higher heaven,,
@jspankin now answer me: if jesus is gods son,, does god have other sons? if not , why only one? there is nothing in the bible says he has only one!! so he may have 2, 3, does god have a mother, father, grandmother ,,,
where did jesus say" pray to the cross". where did he even mention cross??, jesus himself fell of his face praying to god,,, he didnt even knew the time of the day of judgment !!!
@plzgoaway God has many children, he is our father in heaven. Jesus was the first man to be completely filled with Holy Spirit (The manifestation of God's presence), he committed no sin in the eyes of God. we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus has not, he obeyed God to the fullest hence God has exalted him above the angels and above all men (including Mohammad).
Christians should prey to God in Jesus name. meaning with the spiritual authority Jesus had on earth.
@jspankin good,, then may be there are other sons of god that reached this level,, if no,, why?, and if yes, then maybe after a while we will find out god has 13 sons and 4 grandparents?? and if jesus is god,, does god fall on his face praying to the other part of himself?? and how is god (jesus ) doesnt know the time of the judgment day!!!
@plzgoaway There are other sons of God. But Jesus was the first to be totally filled with the holy spirit living in him. God wants all of us to reach that level of "Christ likeness" but God has before the foundations of the world exalted Jesus above all men and angels. God Exists eternally he has to Parents. The spirit of Jesus existed eternally in God and then became flesh. Praying with your face to the floor is biblical and very good, many Christians do this (privately) it is only not Muslim.
@jspankin what prevents god to have other sons in the same level?? if so then you would pray to a dozen entity , not three, if jesus's spirit existed etrnally inside god,, we dont both god and jesus exist etrnally olso inside another entity of grandfather?
praying on your face,, i was not saying its about islam, i was wondering , if jesus is god, then how would jesus fall on his face praying to the other part of himself!! and how could he not know the time of the judgment day. !!!
@plzgoaway I think history and society very clearly screams, left to his own devices, mankind is very sinful. So I think this prevents us from being like Jesus.
The bible says the wages of sin death. Hence the implication is Man deserve to die but Jesus does not deserved to die though he died. That's why God has exhaled him to sit at his "right hand". Jesus prayed to God, God is in him but he is distinct from God. Even in heaven Jesus continues to pray to God
@jspankin well, in islam prophets dont do sins,,so no normal humans are in the same level as the prophets, )moses, jesus, muhammad.etc) as for the praying part: prayed to god, he is god, god part of him, still praying to god,,,a simple question jesus is god or not? no god prays to god, AND WHY didnt jesus knew the time of the judgment day, why did god (father) hide this info from hi other part god (jesus)?
@plzgoaway I now quoting you "well, in islam prophets dont do sins" this would mean Mohammad is CERTAINLY NOT A PROPHET OF ISLAM. Mohammad worshiped Idols . Mohammad had more than 4 wives . Not to Mention Mohammad con't tell the difference between an Angel and a Demon. Hence the The Satanic Verses found in Sura 53:19-20. Mohammad was able to be put under a spell. (This was never possible for any biblical prophet).
@plzgoaway Jesus never preach the cross, he mentioned the cross and his death to his disciples.Jesus rebuked peter for saying he would not die saying (get behind me Satan, you are not mindful of the things of God). Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. The Christian church of today unfortunately preaches the Gospel of Jesus (which is not bad but misses the point). By the way Jesus never associated with Abraham. He associated with KING David. Jesus is Royal (not Mohammad)
@jspankin jesus mentioned the cross? did he say " thats the trinity pray to that cross" where in the bible does it pray to cross
second , the gospels,, i dont care they teach wht, am not that expert,
third, as i believe, both muhammad and jesus are descendants of Abraham, and all prophets are equal in the eyes of god, and there is nothing called royal , these r human ideas added to favorite prphets over others, but even tho all that are not the point, talk about theology, not meaningless titles
@plzgoaway Jesus Mentioned dieing. Nowhere is trinity mentioned in the Scripture. Jesus said pay to God the Father in heaven. Who prays to the cross? are referring to Catholics or something? It's not about what "they" teach, Jesus taught repent for the Kingdom of Heaven has arrived.
Royalty is a God sanctioned idea. Jesus was asked if he was a king and he replied positively. David was King of Israel. What are you talking about. Jesus is King of Kings. God calls himself the ancient King.
@jspankin none of that proves he is god, as for the cross, christians put cross every where and pray to it,, as what i have seen,, if u acknowledge that there is nothing divine about the cross, then good, we r 1 step closer,, but i dont know about catholics or other,
and i salute u for choosing wht jesus said , not what the church say,
God is the King, and david was a ruling king of his people, as was soliman,but jesus was not, not that makes him any less!! he was way higher than these titles
@plzgoaway I don't know why SOME Christians pray to the cross. I'm not trying to prove Jesus is God, but the unique Son of God (We all can be sons of God but not like Jesus in his exalted nature). there is NOTHING divine about the cross. The cross is a symbol of Rome. Jesus was in the blood line of Kings, low in the eyes of the Jews because they could not see who he was, They wanted a warrior king to free them from earthly bondage. Jesus a King in the Kingdom Heaven
@jspankin let me get this straight, i seem lost on wht u believe in,,so u believe Jesus is not god,, just son of god,, who god choose from all humans because he is uniquely exceptionally unsinnful and great?
@plzgoaway Jesus = Son of God, but he was not chosen from among humans just because he was sinless. He was Slain BEFORE the foundation of the world, meaning Jesus' spirit was in heaven with and in God all the time. God took part of himself and put it in the body of Jesus in his mothers womb. Jesus (though he was 100% human and was tempted like everyone else committed no sin). Jesus did the will of God and died for his family. Jesus is the salvation of the world. Mohammad is a false prophet.
@jspankin so why dont god have 3 children? and 4 grandparents?? what proof do u have that he doesnt have these family members?? and the jesus story doesnt prove that muhammad is a false prophet,, we can debate but at least have the minimum respect!!!
now, again, if jesus is god (part god or,,,) why didnt he know the time of the judgment day???
@plzgoaway God has many children. Those who do his will are his children. God has no forefather because. by him all things we made and without him nothing was made. God is the Beginning and the Ending. In other worlds God didn't start when the universe began. God started the Universe. "the Beginning and the Ending"also means you can't fully know or understand God (he is a complex being, not simple like the Koran falsely presents him). You are finite he is infinite.
@plzgoaway I don't you what you mean by "so why dont god, as an infinite entity has within him,(as jesus) othe parts of grand parents and other children"
God has no forefathers. He predates every living being. All humans came out of God. Mary is the mother of Jesus NOT of God.
PS please don't ask me "Since Mary is the mother of Jesus NOT of God, does that mean Jesus is not God then?" Well can ask but I think I answered the question of who Jesus is already.
@jspankin , now a simple question to focus our discussion,, IF i am amuslim, a good man, helping the poor, no adultry, no alcohol, not stealing or killing,, and beleiving in all prophets, and in god, and believing and loving jesus (but not as a god), what would jesus say about me?? am i going to hell!!???
@plzgoaway I truthfully am in no position to say who is going to heaven or hell, that if for God to judge and believe he will Judge justly. But I will say this, in the Canonized Gospels about Jesus. Jesus preached about the Kingdom of Heaven of earth. His message was not about going to heaven. Jesus to his disciples to pray for the will of God to be done on earth just like it is done in heaven. I would also if anyone goes to heaven it is because of Jesus.
@jspankin let me be clearer . what criteria jesus made for us to be "good"? did he say go to church every sunday? did he say , kiss the hands of another man and call him father , and build a big palace for him (the vatican) did he say, build statues for me and crosses every where??, or he did say, be good, pay the poor, dont commit adultry,, from my point of view, i follow jesus more than many christians
@plzgoaway Jesus said no one is good but the father. Going to church does not make you "good". Haven't you heard the phrase "standing in a garage does not make you a car. "? i think you have issues with the Catholicism and rightfully so. It is good that you follow Jesus more than many Christians.
I think YOU should humbly ask the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to reveal himself to YOU in your private timeS of prayer. Don't stop until HE tells you who HE is.
@jspankin well i dont know wht christian r u,, and how should i debate all christians at once where they have 1000 different point of view about everything!!, second, i really feel am following all the prophets, starting from adam, ibraham, moses, jesus , muhammad,etc,, and i am trying to be as good as i can, am trying to help anybody in need,, i never drank alcohol, i never had sex outside marriage,, conclusion, am feeling right with my beliefs!!!
@plzgoaway I can only repeat what I said before. YOU should humbly ask the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to reveal himself to YOU in your private timeS of prayer. Don't stop until HE tells you who HE is.
Making pilgrimages, facing mecca, declaring Mohammad is God's messenger, stoning the devil ect were Never done by ANY prophet before Mohammad. The truth is Islam is completely foreign to the Bible and the prophets. It is a completely new religion.
Respond to this video... The fact is believing in one God, kindness, generosity, not drinking, not committing adultly, not stealing ect are all good traits but they don't make you a Muslim. Being a Muslim (As in the Religion of Islam) is tied by the navel to Mohammad, Koran, and Mecca and Medina, and these elements are contrary to the Prophets. Also the idea that Mohammed is the last prophet is foreign to the Bible. I believe there are still many prophets alive today.
@jspankin Ibraham lived in Mecca for a while, and he rebuilt the "kaaba" as for the prophets, moses was not mentioned in the books b4 him, nor jesus, and i believe muhammad was mentioned in the Bible,,but the bible was corrupted, and changed many times, one of these, when the roman emperor ordered all christian factions to agree on a united belief, and they burned every thing else, including Arious, he belived jesus was a prophet, not son of god
@plzgoaway These ideas that Abraham lived in Mecca for a while, Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba, Muhammad mentioned in the bible really only exist in the minds of Muslims. I don't think any None Muslim who looks at the evidence for this could believe this. The first time in history anybody says Abraham live in Mecca is when Islam was invented. The first time in History anybody ever said Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba was when Islam was invented. Muhammad is not mentioned in the bible at all either
Respond to this video...There is really is no reason to think that Mohammad is mentioned in the bible unless you are a Muslim with an agenda to prove Islam is true. But seriously Mohammad is not mentioned by historical character anywhere in the bible at all. When the Jews asked John "are you that prophet?" there is no reason at all what to ever to think this prophet is Muhammad (unless you are desperate to find a link for Muhammad and the bible)
Respond to this video...I am bewilder by why Muslims think Muhammad has anything to do with the bible. Just accept that Muhammad started a new religion and had to make it palatable to the Christians and Jews living in Arabia at that time. There were many Christians and Jews living in Mecca and Medina at the time when the Koran was revealed to Muhammad. Muhammad had to make his new religion palatable to them as well as the pagan Arabs.
This is like watching a debate about wether the creator of the universe is a pink unicorn or a blue unicorn. Both are idiots
Hermy1138 1 day ago
Anything that went agains what Jesus said was not accepted. It was't offical till the 3rd Cen but they only accepted what the church has always used nothing else. 2th they only accepted it if it was well known it was one of the writings of 1 of t 12 Apostles. They where divinly inspired to write it. The Koran contadicts both the Hebrew prophets, Jesus n his apostles. This makes the Koran wrong,sorry if that offends you. Go and read and see t importance of t cross and ressur there t way of God
Jen8973 1 week ago
Dr Badawi trie to say the writings of the N T have been changed. This is competley untrue. Historical evidence shows they have not been changed although they have been translated into many languages no important meanings have been changed. The Koran was not written down until the 3rd Capihs so it could easily been wrong. The N T was written 30 yrs after Christ's death. The Church only put in the N T what the early believers held what had been accepted as the real teachings of Jesus
Jen8973 1 week ago
There where good points on each side yet it is clear that Craig won the debate. Dr Badawi accepts the part of the Gospels but twists the parts he doesn't accept. His arguments where weak. The whole Gospel of John is a declaration of Jesus's divinity. Yes it says he was a man but in Jn 8 Jesus claims to have pre-existed. Dr B says the Hadith are divine intepertations in the Prophets own words yet try's to write of the very same argument when it comes to Jesus' intimate disciples.
Jen8973 1 week ago
reviewing this debate i only see this:
statement by craig-response by badaw-response to badawi's statements that he misinterpreted-badawi refuting those statements-craig repeating the process-badawi repeating the process. i find only the first part of the exchnage to be the good sum of both. the other seemed like craig saying something and badawi refuting it and craig doing it again sometimes of the same statements. i found this not to be neither useful nor informative for both faiths.
blackosw22 3 weeks ago
Isaiah 53:1
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the *arm of the LORD revealed*?
malikzzzzz 1 month ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
I personally don't see the point of presenting this to the end of the debate, knowing that there will be no response. Also he didn't answer the rest, so we have a crucified Christ. and probably risen. While this serves to support the point that Jesus is human, to which all Christians believe, this can't prove Qur'anic Jesus Leaving aside that he didn't has defended the Jesus of the Koran. It doesn't help attack the biblical Jesus and not provide defense of the Quran, cuz it doesn't make it true.
NomiVoluntad 1 month ago
Is notable what things he says, he says Dr Craig you have the burden of proof. That's absurd, both of them have the burden of proof, to show that one conception is correct. Furthermore he claim that Jesus was human, and that is a statement, therefore, you have to give some reason to think that is correct, not presupose that the muslim view is correct at least we show that is not.
NomiVoluntad 1 month ago
And moreover Badawi says when he talks about the jews, who took up stones to kill Jesus. He says that if a man says that he is god, then all could say that he was crayz and could left him alone. So if he grant this, he can't say that Jesus don't afirm divinity and thereof don't be divine. He collapsed his own accusatory argument.
NomiVoluntad 1 month ago
I don't know why badawi accuses Dr Craig to say something that he never said. Dr Craig didn't say that Jesus striking was found in the pages of the quran. Moreover, i think badawi seems to be in another tuning. As if he wasn't in the debate, it seems that he doesn't hear what Craig says. He didn't refute anything. and misinterpreted things.
NomiVoluntad 1 month ago
Dr. Badawi raises the point that the Trinity is not even in the Tanakh, or OT. He should probably try and explain Genesis' "Let us make man in our image" in hebrew as well as Deuteronomy 6 "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad" - Hear, oh Israel, the Lord our God, He is One, with "echad" meaning (very literally) a unity... hmmm...
raulthejewban 1 month ago
I think Badawi really doesn't grasp that Christian's believe that Jesus was fully man as well as fully God...if he wanted to debate he should have argued about that rather than say "Jesus prayed to God"...because, well, of course Jesus prayed to the Father. Craig explained his view on the nature of God-man previously, and yet Badawi ignores it.
abacabbabacabb1 2 months ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
@abacabbabacabb1 Watch Badawi vs Dr Anis. Dr anis is far better than craig in debating. But badawi defeated him like a child in 4 day debate. Nearly all of the points which both sides didn't even touch are completely discussed in IT.
flexpape 1 month ago
@flexpape wrong dr craig is the best christian debater and richard dawkins is for atheist for muslims never won an arguement on both ofthem
HLVsasori 1 month ago
@HLVsasori i do not deny that he is best christian debater but he talk about religious philosophy and he is Good in proving the existence of God. But tbh, he can't prove Christian Trinity theory. As i mentioned earlier, Dr Anis and Dr Badawi. This current debate is NOTHING as compare to that debate of em.
flexpape 1 month ago
Badawi is not a great talker - Craig is good.
So not a good match for a debate.
It would be better to see Zakir Naik vs Craig.
Craig is fantastic on proof of God - but even he can't convince me on the convoluted Christian [more accurately, Paulian] theology
vicachcoup 2 months ago
@vicachcoup naik is only good in rhetoric, he's not a serious philosopher.. yah he has good talking points but he cannot frame his arguments in a logically coherent manner
lovellespice 2 months ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
@lovellespice
I partly agree.
The same goes for Craig when he discusses Paulianity/Christianity
vicachcoup 2 months ago
@vicachcoup haha dr zair naik? the liar? hahaha Craig would destroy him and also richard dawkins
HLVsasori 1 month ago
@HLVsasori said
'haha dr zair naik? the liar?'
Hi
Do you want to point out some of his lies?
vicachcoup 1 month ago
well craig does it again, he failed and puts words in peoples mouths
Grohlx 2 months ago
Jamal Badawi wins this debate. Craig starts to sound nauseatingly repetitive. This is an old debate – but Craig is best against Hitchens and hopefully – Richard Dawkins in the near future. ;)
Charismatic789 3 months ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
@sethdbeeb yes and if you see the word "HE" and "HIMSELF" you will notice 8 masculine nouns... are you referring that to the ghost ? How is the ghost said to be that ? Think about it bro, its Talking about Mohamad (PBUH)
Also, the orignal Hebrew Bible, clearly has the word "Mohamadem" ...This is more than sufficient prove brothers..Also did Jesus say he was the last prophet /
@traveling bro retribution of sins is that it is forgiven if repented. God just wants u to accept his divinity..
-Peace
Maqyt 3 months ago
@travelinghermit: Also consider this sight, if you are married, and you have your own Son .. will you sacrifice him, slaughter him for the sake of others... if asked ?
Jesus said, for i have alot of things to tell u, but i cant bare them now, for HE shall come and HE shall say HIMSELF, for HE will not say anything from himself but what will be Told to HIM..
who is he referring to ? Ofcourse Mohamad (PBUH) .. Who is the last prophet and Quran clearly reveals about Jesus & Mary & all Prophets..
Maqyt 3 months ago
@Maqyt Read the rest of the context and you will see Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit fulfilled on the day of Pentecost - Acts 2
sethdbeebe 3 months ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
@travelinghermit Thanks for clearing that up ! so basically unrepentant will still go to hell ? thts wat you are saying right ?
However, it still is not carrying sense. Sins of Adam, were they carried forward to humanity ? No he had to repent ! Y would God want to sacrifice his only son to make it right for others ? He is all merciful ? Wont he simply forgive upon asking for forgiveness ?
So if Jesus is innocent & pure, y is he crucified /sacrificed ? is tht Justice to jesus (PBUH ) ?
Maqyt 3 months ago
It completely illudes my mind Why Dr Craig doesn't understand one simple logic (in all my due respect). tht is to say why would God be "All-Loving" in this that he will forgive the sinners also cos Christ has already taken the punishment !
Doesnt tht come to mind as Morally inadequate cos, tht suggests, to all Christian faith followers to do watever SIN they have to as they r all going to Heaven ? What is the purpose of this world if no one is to be tested of their deeds ? plsss..do explain !
Maqyt 3 months ago
@Maqyt The christian bible makes very clear:
1. the law requires innocent blood for the remission of sin
2. All will be judged according to the law
3. In his current state Man is incapable of being perfect
4. Man requires perfect sacrifice
5. There is a difference between repentant and unrepentant sinners.
You make the assumption that they are the same which results in fallacy. You are lost because you assume christianity says that god will save the unrepentant.
travelinghermit 3 months ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
@Maqyt And you would call the Muslim God just? He requires only that sinners repent, turn to him and live by the law. But where is the retribution for sins already committed? If your god does not reward all deeds appropriately then he is not just.
travelinghermit 3 months ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
Dr. Craig lacks logic only when he debates Muslims, because Islam is rational, and he finds it difficult fighting against his own logic to confute the logical arguements put forth by Islam.
The reason Badawi wins the argument is not because he is a great legendary outspoken scholar, but cos ne1 standing against Quran / Islam cannot stand for long..Afterall how can you refute a word of God to the word of Human ! Humans mind r limited and so the edited Bible can never reach the glory of Quran !
Maqyt 3 months ago
02:01_ when you speak words, do your words speak of their own or because you as a person makes them come out?
Are your words/voice 'You', or are they a separate entity, that are independent of self....?
if your words were to turn around and make the statement that they cannot do anything without you,would that be false? no
But are they still very much a part of you? Yes
When thinking about Jesus, think in this manner and it will make more sense.Now go and re read scripture in this light!!
kudzy11 3 months ago
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kudzy11 3 months ago
I am outsider to both these religeons but I heard many times from non-believers who studied religeons that Coran is well written but falls short on simple human quality as mercy and honesty. Whereas Bible has full of contradictions and inconsistancy which accounts up to 316 or so. Followers of Corans are clear cut when it comes to directives, but Bible followers doesn't have clear picture of Bible because it is not well written and well-versed person would see all mistakes. Simple golden rule no
symmetry08 4 months ago
@symmetry08 The Qur'an has major problems. It contains the infancy gospel of Thomas' account of Jesus creating a bird from clay and making it come to life. This gospel is a well-known forgery, written nearly 200 years after Jesus' death, and yet it is included in the Qur'an as if it's true. The Qur'an also makes the assertion that the Christian 'trinity' consists of God as Father, Jesus as son, and Mary as mother ... which is utterly false. Lastly, most biblical contradictions are reconcilable.
gmn545 3 months ago
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wonderwall62 4 months ago
It's funny how he added that last point so conveniently that Craig could not debate it because he doesn't have time for rebuttal. That's really cowardly.
TheAntiochus 5 months ago
I believe that there wasn't a clear winner. Both were very respectful and also both gave very good arguments. But as a catholic, I must say that JB's interpretations of the Bible verses he mentioned were obviously misunderstood. I don't know anything about the Coran, to be honest, but JB didn't corrected any of WLC interpretations. Anyway, God has a salvation plan for everyone. God bless.
LaloPorPramuk 5 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 5 months ago
Jamal Badawi is very well spoken and had facts to back up his argument. Dr. Craig kept talking about the same 3 topics. Even if there was another reply answer Dr. Craig would not have been able to come back with any good arguments on Jamal Badawi's closing remarks. Jamal Badawi won this hands down!
KEMIBA1 5 months ago
Dr. Badawi doesn't seem to listen when he describes how the story of Jesus striking a child to death isn't in the Qur'an. Dr. Craig was stating that if you affirm the legendary gospel of Thomas as true, stories of which are found within the Qur'an, then you must affirm that the document is inspired by God. The consequent of such a categorical statement implies that Christ striking the child to death is true.
Badawi lost this debate in such a terrible manner.
Christ is Risen!
dimic 6 months ago 20
@dimic Although some of Dr. Craigs' assertions aren't completely consistent (Paul quotes from Greek writers, and few people would ascribe inspiration to those), they hold much more water than Dr. Badawis'. The fact that he misinterprets direct rebuttals time and time again, and doesn't concede any points that he has lost quite badly undercuts his side of the argument.
As I Christian I have obvious bias, but Dr. Badawi did many of his arguments a disservice during this debate.
Senshidayo 5 months ago
@dimic I kind of feel bad for badawi in this. T'was quite a beatdown.
9pt9 1 month ago
@dimic what badawi said was that you there was was a form of truth in that gospel not that it was authentic.that was earlier in the debate but it seems doctorl craig ignored that statemment.
blackosw22 3 weeks ago
`Abdullah reported that Allah's Messenger ... said: "Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood [sperm?], after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends his angel to it ..."
Go ahead and ask any neutral embryologist whether this is true: That sperm would hold for 40 days, and then turned into clot of blood..
Imbossu 6 months ago
@Imbossu Rather than just debating on youtube....
Imbossu 6 months ago
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jum187 6 months ago
@jum187
If you think the debate gone trough with another winer than a wider point of view for both religions, i think you didn't happen to think after any of those arguments.
vichirukun 6 months ago
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jum187 6 months ago
@jum187 I'm n0t ur mate. l34rN 2 pr0p3er 3eng1ish br0....
Of course you understood what i said, you are just confused because you probably think i have a contrary point of view, pal.
God Bless you.
vichirukun 6 months ago
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jum187 6 months ago
@jum187 Badawi was crushed. And Craig was generous enough to respect a blabber like Badawi; had Craig been too cruel, he would have raised even more serious moral dilemmas in the Quran itself like Muhammad sexing a prepubescent girl or lying to advance Islam. If Craig did so, Badawi would have suffered a perhaps more humiliating defeat.
gatsbyfaulkner 5 months ago
And if you want to learn the truth of Keith Moore's 'amazing discovery in the Koran', which Badawi refers to (9/11, at 4.00), check this out on Youtube;
Famous embryologist confirms miracle of Quran and becomes Muslim 2011. Scientist convert to Islam.
Brendan47051 6 months ago
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Brendan47051 6 months ago
WLC was completely unruffelled whereas JB was losing it towards the end. I couldn't believe it when he brought up that charlatan Keith Moore. Miracles in the Koran my eye! It always astonishes me how someone as highly intelligent as Badawi could be so deluded. But such is the nature of cults I suppose.
Brendan47051 6 months ago 8
unreliable*also it wasnt mentioned con the Gospel on John in chapter 1 when it says that the word was Jesus, and the word was in the biggining with God and the word is God.off corse badawi cannot validate Jesus as God, because the old testament speaks of a new convenant in Isaiah brought by the messiah,and if he accepts Jesus as prophet then he must accept that no more prophets would be sent after him because thats what he said.therefore mohamed cannot be considered as prophet and sent byGod
Jonathanavila138 7 months ago
Badawi cant acknowledge the fact that the coran being incorrect about the facts on Jesus and also that the coran was not preserved as the bible or writen by wittnesses of mohameds teachings, renders it as completely unaccurate and reliable as a book..yes, it contains the penthatude, and because of that you can prove that God speakes in plural, HE has been seen by men as oposed as he stated. Moses saw Gods back, Jacob saw God, fought and lived..abraham saw God and 2more before he destroyed Sodom
Jonathanavila138 7 months ago
@GamerFTW21 : Yes I care, of course. But I don't see people in hell but those who are really driving believers towards atheism. One may keep his faith but avoid destroying others faith, that's what I think. If debates do not lead to a mutual understanding it does not worth anything. As a Muslim, I accepted every monotheistic religion and the prophets. God does not punish a human being because he believes in Him. Rather than opposing we should work together because real evil is winning every day.
swiftspy 7 months ago
@GamerFTW21 : Well Deedat is dead and my point is what he tried to communicate to us. But I still think that it is a mistake to try to convince or oppose christians. They should be left with their beliefs. For me, sharing one God, the same one is enough, if of course a christian consider Allah as the same God. If not, even the debate is useless :-)
swiftspy 7 months ago
@GamerFTW21 : May be, it was then other ways of debating. But Deedat brought many lights to Muslims, specially warning them to read everything, to be able to talk with a prepared opponent and not to be afraid to investigate and even learn Greek. However, Islam is lacking of debater even if it does not seem to be the case.
swiftspy 7 months ago
@GamerFTW21 : Yes indeed, I did not say otherwise for all debates :-). But Shabir is very scientific and that his power. He does not get intimidated if facts and history are involved.
swiftspy 7 months ago
No, I don't think he went away from the topic. The problem is the perception of God by Christians. A debate is always hard to maintain because each side thinks that the other is talking about non-related issue. If a Muslim or a jew claims that God is one with no associates... it is clear. It is like each one is talking and debating in a different level.
swiftspy 7 months ago
John the Baptist insisted that Jesus was not in need of baptism (meaning He was sinless). Jesus' choice to be baptised was only to fulfill the law. He didn't need to be baptised due to His divinity, but insisted upon it because it was His duty as a man. Fully God and fully man. Son of God, Son of Man.
55k3v1n 7 months ago
Dr. Badawi seemed pretty desperate at the end. He attacked things that were completely irrelevant to the debate.
THEEVANTHETOON 7 months ago
@THEEVANTHETOON : He is tired of convincing Christians that they got away from God. Jews and Muslims have the true concept of God and none of them is changing that. Also, it is YOUR perception that he is desperate: you are not familiar with the way of speaking of eastern people. They are not evangelical stars, they speak with their heart and with emotions. Peace.
swiftspy 7 months ago
@swiftspy
"it is YOUR perception that he is desperate: you are not familiar with the way of speaking of eastern people"
I thought he was desperate because of the fact that he was attacking topics that were irrelevant to the debate, not because of his voice tone.
THEEVANTHETOON 7 months ago
@THEEVANTHETOON : no, I think he tries to make his point about the uniqueness of God and he did. The rest is conjecture as to know if Paul really saw Jesus, if witnesses are real witnesses..and that will never be proved.
swiftspy 7 months ago
This was a very good video of a good debate. Both men made their points, but to me, Dr.Craig, was better in providing evidence in his arguments.
Look forward to viewing more of Dr.Craig s debates. Thanks for posting these videos.
TMSKILZ 7 months ago
seem like Bawdawi left the main evidences for the end, to conclude to show that Jesus was a messenger and not divine... well done Badawi... Dr craig tried hard, good speaker... but all his evidences came to nothing right at the end.. good upload.
DiLxThief 7 months ago
@Dissimul Well what you said about the beauty of the Quran... It truly is an error free peice of beautiful Arabic text, but when you add the fact that the Prophet Muhammed couldn't read nor right adds some interest to it
DORC101 7 months ago
I have great respect for both of them, but I have to say that through out this whole debate, Dr. Craig try's to prove his belief of Jesus (PBUH) through the Bible... Lol he's trying to convince a NON-Christian that jesus (PBUH) is divine through a book that the Muslims don't even find is authentic! Thats like me telling an atheist that God exists, when the atheist asks why, I simply say "Well it says that in the Quran!" Its not a valid way to prove a point
DORC101 7 months ago
@DORC101 Thats a misunderstanding. Craig doesnt use the authority of the Bible to support his points, he uses the historical authenticity of Paul's letters and the earliest gospel manuscripts (which were records of independent oral traditions written long before Constatine included them in the Bible, while the eyewitnesses they name were still alive, and while Christians were a small, persecuted band).
He's using them, not as divine documents, but as historical records, to support his arguments
relarerfhjk 7 months ago
@relarerfhjk Well if you look at it that way you are completly correct, but i recommend you to do your research with an open mind. I wanted to send you some links of videos that are about ancient bibles that were found in palestine but for some reason youtubes not allowing me, ill try to send you the links seperatly. Until then Peace
DORC101 7 months ago
@DORC101 I have researched with an open mind, I was referring to the fact that most NT historians accept that the gospels are historically reliable. For example, Gerd Ludeman is not only a top NT scholar, he's also an atheist! Yet he has written "it may be taken as historically certain that the disciples and others had experiences of appearances of Jesus after his death" even though Ludeman thinks these were hallucinations, he doesnt dispute the historicity of the gospel accounts!
relarerfhjk 7 months ago
Jamal Badawi is a humiliation to the Islamic scholarship. He has no understanding of Christian doctrine.
Ilive4Allah2011 8 months ago in playlist ISLAM DEBATE! William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi Debate
KORAN ONLY FOR ARAB SPEAKING PEOPLE, Y IS THAT?2 Peter ". there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping
lovelightandpraise 9 months ago
No the Quran isn't for ARAB speaking people only, it was revealed in that language from Allah... exactly the same why the bible was not revealed in English u silly man lol... tell me, what language was the original bible revealed in?... English or Aramaic? God tells us in the Quran: "And We have not sent you except as a MERCY TO MANKIND" (Qur'an 21:107) Compare that to what bible says: "It is not meet to take the children's(Jews) bread and cast it to the DOGS (none-Jews) (Matt 15:24-26)
DiLxThief 7 months ago
@DiLxThief Be respectful of me like I am of you, I am not silly. I speak the word of GOD. My language is not English, I am not American. Isaiah 9:6 says : For to us a child is born,to us a son is given,and the government will be on his shoulders.And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
(This was written about 600 to 700 years before JESUS was born by the prophet ISAIAH. )
lovelightandpraise 7 months ago
Mr Badawi fails to show Koran verses to state his beliefs instead he relies on his own judgment and opinion. Where are the verse that are in your Koran???
THE RELIGION OF JESUS IS NO RELIGION!!!! JESUS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION, YOU HAVE IT WRONG. INVITE HIM IN YOUR HEART AND LIFE ONLY THEN WILL YOU KNOW HIM AND WHO IS REALLY IS
lovelightandpraise 9 months ago
JESUS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION?
Is that why Jesus said "GO NOT into the way of the GENTILES!!!... who are the GENTILES? the GENTILES Jesus is referring to are the None-Jews... But go ye rather unto the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL (ie only go to the Jews) (Matt:10:5-6)
Dr. Badawi mentioned many Quranic verses and Ahadith to prove his point, he even used ration and logic unlike Craig... Craig believes a rapist and a pious person both deserve to be in heaven without punishment LOL
DiLxThief 7 months ago
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@DiLxThief You dont understand the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ (YaHuShua). he was crucified for the sins of all, by faith in him our sins are washed away with his blood. He died for you, if you Repent of your sins no matter what they are , YaHuSHUA IS JUST AND WILL FORGIVE YOU. If you deny him you will suffer punishment indeed. 1 john 1 :19 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
lovelightandpraise 7 months ago
JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY
“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”
lovelightandpraise 9 months ago
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YES JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE FLESH !!!!!! ALL GLORY BE TO GOD
JESUS IS GOD
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation
.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(the bible), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh(Jesus), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
lovelightandpraise 9 months ago
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JESUS IS GOD
John 10:27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.
”28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
lovelightandpraise 9 months ago
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THE HOLY BIBLE OF JESUS CHRIST THE WORD OF GOD WARNED ABOUT FALSE TEACHERS.
Mohamed lived after Jesus. The chapters of the Old Testament were written over a thousand years before Jesus was born. The Bible was written several centuries before the Quran.
lovelightandpraise 9 months ago
John 8:58 Jesus says, "before Abraham was, I Am
falesian23 9 months ago
That is, are there are two kinds of carnal humans those with the heart of an adult and the mind of a child, or the heart of an adult and the mind of an adult and there are two kinds of spiritually minded humans, those who have the heart of a child and the mind of a child and those who have the heart of a child and the mind of a mature adult. The only acceptable choice to a committed Christian is the last.
proSpiritofTruth 9 months ago
Trio implies three parts, God has a Will, a Word and a Voice and we being made in God's image have a will, a word and a voice, the will is in our nature, our word is an index of our character, and our voice is an index of our degree of volition for good or evil. We describe the part of us that houses our nature as our hear, the character as our soul, the personality or volition as our mind and our strength depends on whether we are ruled by inclination or principle which is the fourth principle
proSpiritofTruth 9 months ago
perpendicular to each other. We are all familiar with the terms,physical world, mental world, spiritual world and clelestial world, and have five senses with which to function in the physical,seven powers of thinking:noticing, noticing differences in apparent likenesses,noticing likenesses in apparent differences, categorizing or putting order into all of this, prioritizing,applying and metabolizing all of this food for thought, then nine powers of volition, and sixtieen levels of phys existence
proSpiritofTruth 9 months ago
Jesus as our Creator tells us what we are made of a heart, soul, mind and strenght and we are to worship God with all of these four faculties. 1 John1:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and teh Holy Ghost: and these three are one." So the term God refers to the relationship betweem three infinite and uncreate Alpha and Omegas, first and lasts, beginnig and endings, just as the term cube refers to the ideal relationship between three infinite straight lines
proSpiritofTruth 9 months ago
The Old Testament has apparent contradictions which are not resolved until the New Testament was written.Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image..." and verse 27 "And God made man in is own image..." Colossians 1:16, John1:1-3 and Hebrews 1:2, all declare that Christ, the Word, is God and made all things that were made. So in verse 26 all three are discussion but the executive creation only refers to Jesus. So the Lord God in Genesis 2:7 is Jesus. We are made in the image of God
proSpiritofTruth 9 months ago
my christherian brotherin why do you insult god saying he has abegotten son,jesus was born like any other human being,he had to come out of 9 months.quran says he was born by gods word,which doesnt mean god sent his sperm or spirit,but his commandon up which thisworld functions
And i pose one simple question which in my life no christhian by name can answer me,...............................................god died,then he got resurrecte ,
callmeon000 9 months ago
Badawi just couldn't get this idea that Jesus was fully God and fully man.
TheCyclingsaint 10 months ago
IF Islam is true, Allah started Christianity by tricking people to think Jesus was crucified
Then Suddenly made Arabic holy after spending 2000 years speaking Hebrew & Aramaic in the bible
Remembered Ishmael(though he ignored his descendants for 2000 years & exclusively gave scripture to Isaacs')
Never bothered to talk directly to Mohammed(like he did every other prophet) rather sending Gabriel
Now Mecca is the holiest place on earth(God demoted Jerusalem when he became Arabic)
ISLAM = FALSE
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin first: the word "Allah" is generaly used for god in Arabic languages. arabe christians and jews call their god "Allah",, its not just an islamic word
as for ur arguments: god started christianity with jesus as his prophet, he didnt trick them, they misunderstood and deceived, as u would say about jews,, why did they kill jesus? why did god deceive them?
2-the language: God's word is the same , but it reaches each prophet in the language he understands
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Allah is a MODERN translation for god but Allah is the NAME of a specific god in pre-Islamic Arabia. Arab Christians/Jews use "Allah" for God today because it evolved to mean god after the spread of Islam and all translations of the bible to Arabic happened after islam
The KORAN SAYS Allah is the greatest deceiver for causing people to believe Jesus died when he didn't.
IN ISLAM the Koran is Arabic only and no translation is the true Koran. All Muslims are supposed to learn Arabic
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin yes, Allah is the name of god, but as for arabe Christians , they claim thats the name of god, and its not just translation, but i dont stress this point, cuz i frankly dont care about that, but there were arabic versions of the bible b4 islam
as for " the great deceiver" wht??? where is quran god says he his a deceiver for causing jesus to be falsely believed as sth other than himself?,
and koran as a holy word is in arabic, u can translate the meaning to understand,
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@jspankin language continue: god sent many prophets, ones we know about and ones we dont, their are prophets who didnt speak hebrew nor aramaic
as for Ishmael: he was a prophet , just like isaac, and not god nor we differentiate between them, and gods lesson is, we sent many prophets to the people of israel, they never learn, and they keep killing prophets and saying bad stuff about god, so the last prophet , the seal will be in the line of ishmael
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway IN ISLAM the true Koran exists IN ARABIC ETERNALLY with Allah in heaven. The Arabic language itself is considered to be holy. Yet Biblical God has no Arabic revelations.
Mohammad has zero (Monotheistic) prophets in his lineage (unless you consider Noah). Isaac and Ishmael were NOT prophets.
There is nothing reliable whatsoever to link Ishmael to Mohammad. Just him claiming to be descended from him 3000 years later. Abraham had other children
Isaac was NOT a prophet.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin stays in arabic, to be conserved and not lost in translation,, and the arabic langyage is not considered holy,, where do u get ur info?? as for the language part again, god simply deliver his word to his prophets in the langyage they understand,
muhammad is the descendant of ishmael , and both ishmael and isaac are prophets , and even if u consider them not,, then they r the sons of ibraham,, as for the line of muhammad,, in the arabe regions we know our lines till adam,,
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway The Koran does not just stay in arabic, to be conserved, it exists eternally in heaven with Allah. That means before Adam was created and the Arabic language developed the Koran was already there in Arabic. Arabic is holy islam because Muslims consider the original Arabic verbal text to be the final revelation of God, Hence God speaks Arabic as his official languages. Muslims are supposed to learn Arabic to properly recite the Koran in that Language.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin since u like this point ill further explain: God's word (all) are preserved b4 time in heavnes, and we dont know wht was its language, and god is not bounded by language, and through time god sends his words to his prophets , piece by piece, until the final word is delivered , in arabic, and we beleive god talked personally to moses in his language, so we dont argue over trivial points like "language holiness" and ye,, all moslems must learn at least to read one passage of Quran
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway God is not bound by language but Allah is. The Koran says the Koran is the Word of God. But the Bible says Jesus is the word of God. We the Koran Allah has is in Arabic. The Hebrew scriptures did not exist B4 time in heaven. It was written by men under the anointing and spirit of God. But the men wrote it based of their personal writing style, understanding, culture, experiences ect. Jesus is the word of God not the bible. The bible is a tool to get a revelation of who God is.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin if u read my comment, Allah is not bounded by language, and the hebrew scriptures (the ones sent from god) already existed in heavens, as for the other scriptures written by normal men , we dont beleive in them, i beleive every word said by moses, jesus,, not other"saints" who claim receiving words from god,
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway part of the Islamic doctrine is to unite the world under one religion & language(Arabic).
Koran has a challenge to other non-Muslims to read the Koran & the reader would conclude that Koran is the most beautiful/literary superior of all books. this is supposed to prove the Koran is divine.
However some might honestly think Iliad, Shakespeare ect are literary superior to Koran. The response all Muslim apologist give is you have to read it in Arabic to see how beautiful it is.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin all that prove that Arabic is a beautiful rich language , not divine,, wht do u wanna prove? muslims dont say arabic is divine,, do u want to make it divine against our will?, what is the importance of a language!!
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I have nothing against Arabic .
Arabic itself isn't divine but, The Koran in any language but ARABIC is not the Koran. Hence only the Arabic Koran is divine and all Muslims who recite the Koran by heart must do this in Arabic, ONLY ARABIC COUNTS. My point WAS that the IDEA that the Koran is so linguistically perfect it must be divine and the no one can ever write anything as beautiful as the Koran is a lie, it is stupid and it is a joke only taken seriously my biased Muslims.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin ,thanks u finally got it,, arabic is not divine, only the arabic quran is divine, and any translation, is just of meanings, but not as divine,, thats it,, as for the linguistic miracle,, u see it as a joke, cuz u r not arabe, but even non muslims, arabe scholars witness its perfectness ,, and u r no position to say its a lie, since u dont have the tools to judge on that point!!!
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway It is a challenge for NON-Muslims.I have to read in Arabic to see it's beauty? That's how why I the idea Arabic is holy. Because only in this language I can see the linguistic beauty of the Koran. I don't think this makes sense at all. Many other books are beautiful in multiple languages. And the entire assertion of the challenge that it is impossible to write something as beautiful as the Koran and it has been tried and no one has ever been able to do it, is what I think is a joke.
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I don't see the Koran as a Joke at all. I see the claim of its linguistic literary "perfection" in terms of it's beauty(not just grammar) that no one has ever been able to write anything as beautiful as the Koran a joke. . I don't doubt that non-Muslims Arabs think the Quran is beautiful/ perfect, but I am certain if they really thought it was the MOST uniquely beautiful/ perfect thing in the world they would have converted to Islam by now after reading it.
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway The very fact that there are non-Muslim Arabic speaking people who have access to and read the Koran is proof that the Koran is not as marvelous as Muslims imagine it to be.
I think Non-Christian people are more impressed with the bible than the Koran also. Everyone from Christians to Hindus to Buddhist to Rastafarians to Orisha devotees use the bible. Plus Jesus is taught to be a prophet or a god is all major religions. Even in Hinduism he is a God and in Buddhism he is a Buddha.
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Mohammad and the Koran is not recognized in ANY major religion (that I know of) out side of Islam
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I have no confidence Mohammad's claim to be deceded from Ishmael. That part of the world was populated before Abraham. There is no Ancient PRE-ISLAMIC document that reliably traces or connects Mohammad to Ishmael (if you have such a source kindly share it with me ). To a prophet you need a prophecy. Whats has Isaac or Ishmael prophetic to their people? They were not prophets. Only Jews have an ancient record of their entire history. Being a son doesn't make you a prophet.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin as i said, in this region we know our blood lines, as i can trace my blood line, with names till the time of ibraham and even b4, and even unbeleivers, christiians and jews at the time of muhammad dont deny this fact, as for proof, there is the family tree of muhammad till Abraham,, moreover, all arabe tribes of this region are descendants of Ishmael, he is the father of arabes,, then,, as soliman, isaac, jacob, joseph,,etc were prophets, so is Ishmael,
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Ishmael is the father of the Arabs according to the Koran and Muslim tradition only. This can not be shown beyond doubt. Huh The family of Mohammad. Any record that connects Adnan son of Add son of Send son of Napyot, son of Ishmael to Mohammad are ISLAMIC SOURCES. Written 200 years within the lifetime of Mohammad. There is no ancient PRE-ISLAMIC source that connect Ishmael to Mohammad. Joseph was a prophet. Not Issac or ishmael
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin the trace of the blood line id PRE ISLAMIC,, and the christians and jews in Mecca and Medina that time acknowledged that , then wht is the proof that joseph was the son of jacob,, or any two of these prophets for that matter
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@jspankin and btw, i just asked a christian friend of mine, and he told me he beleives both isaac and ishmael are prophets,,, i dont know if his church is different than yours or what, and ye,, being son doesnt make u prophet, only god makes you one,,,
and plz answer my arguments previously mentioned
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I would love to answer your arguments previously mentioned but you are throwing a lot at me. I guess the problem is the definition of a prophet . Unless you have a prophecy from God to deliver to the people. IMO you are not a prophet. Being highly regarded in the scripture/ Talking to God does not make you a prophet. God wants to talk to everyone but does that make us all prophets? NO. Which argument haven't I answered, (I don't know everything I only act like I do)
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin prophet or messenger of god, that means u receive revelation from god through his archangel Gibrael, and both isaac and ishmael received revelations from god, i think wht u mean is the messengers who received books,, like moses , jesus and muhammad, well i dont know the difference in english but in arabic there is "rasool" messenger, holds book like moses. and "naby" a prophet with no book, but sent to remind his people
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway All biblical prophets heard DIRECTLY from God himself at least at some point. I can't think of one who God never spoke to directly (except Mohammad).
Prophecy is not for private interpretation. All prophecies are for the people not for the prophet. Isaac and Ishmael never had such prophecies. What book did Jesus receive?
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin we beleive , that all prophets received god's message through Gibrael,, and why didnt muhammad just say , i heard God,!!, beacause he is true!!, and muhammad talked to god directly in the miracle os "israa2 and mearage",
the book of jesus is "engeel" we translate it as "gosspels"
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Don't you supposedly believe Adam, Moses, Abraham and Jesus were Muslim prophets? Well guess what, they all spoke directly to God and God spoke directly to them. If Mohammad is the greatest and final prophet I would think it would follow simple protocol for God to speak directly to him. the Gospel Jesus preached was the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of heaven. It was written in his "hearts and soul" not in a book. Jesus was never given a book. Stop talking nonsense please.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin again, we dont beleive all the prophets heard from god directly,,but i believe muhammad talked to god (and met him) directly in a speacial occasion, which puts him above all,, as for the gospels,, try to open ur mind a little,, i dont mean a book like a physical object with papers, i mean a words,, like the torah with moses, the gospels with jesus, and the quran with muhammad
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Now you just said you don't believe all prophets heard directly from God. But you believe Muhammad talked to (and met him) directly in a special occasion. How does this put him above ALL? How? this is no way does that. It would at most put him equal to other you also meet God. And below those who committed no sin in the eyes of God. You view point of Mohammad is biased because you are a Muslim and not thing objectively.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin ah, replying to an earlier post of urs, u said muhammad commited sins, like praying for idols and drinking,etc,, that is utterly nonsense,, he never prayed to anything other than god, never drinked, never committed adultery, plz check ur sources
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Mohammad committed sins according to the Koran and has to the be forgiven. This is in the Koran. I never said he committed adultery or drank. I believe he was a pagan Arab before he became a Muslim. I believe he worshiped these Idols before becoming a Muslim. I said he was a warlord, a murderer, a rapist and a pedophile. Please check you sources and critically research the life of Mohammad. And don't do this research as a Muslim but as a student.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin dude, WHAT SINS did he commit according to Quran? wht nonsense is this??? thats rediculus,, and wht u believe is ur problem, but its a FACT he didnt pray to any stone,, for that matter, some ppl thought he was a christian b4 receiving the messsage from god , cuz of that,, What r ur sources, dude, even christians, jews, unbeleivers in madina, all say that too,, HE NEVER WAS A PAGAN, nor the other outrageous things u say,,
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Proof in the Koran that Muhammad had SIN and needed forgiveness.
40:55 Then have patience (O Muhammad). Lo! the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness of thy sin,
48:1-2 Lo! We have given thee (O Muhammad) a signal victory, That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favour unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path
47:19 So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Bukhari’s Hadith 8.379: Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet used to say, "O Allah! I seek refuge with You from laziness and geriatric old age, from ALL KINDS OF SINS and from being in debt;...Allah! Wash away my sins with the water of snow and hail, and cleanse my heart from all the sins as a white garment is cleansed from the filth, and let there be a long distance between me and my sins, as You made East and West far from each other
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Bukhari’s Hadith 8.407: Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet used to invoke Allah with the following invocation: O my Lord! Forgive my sins and my ignorance and my exceeding the limits of righteousness in all my deeds .... O Allah. Forgive my mistakes, those done intentionally or out of my ignorance or without or with seriousness, and I confess that all such mistakes are done by me. O Allah! Forgive my sins of the past and of the future with I did openly or secretly.
jspankin 10 months ago
Respond to this video... Some of the Koranic verses/ Hadith references were shorted by me so they could fit in the comment space. You can check them out fully on your own. But I think the only fair thing to do after reading the Koranic verses and Hadith references I wrote you, is conclude and admit that both the Koran and Hadith show that Muhammad had sin and needed forgiveness. The specific sins I will write in another comment. But I think I did mention them already to someone else.
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway My mins is open. I was talking about when YOU SAID all prophets Received god's revelation through Gabriel. Then YOU SAID the book of Jesus is the gospel. That's why I asked what book did Jesus receive (from Gabriel). Jesus did not receive any book/ message/ gospel from any angel. Jesus got the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven from GOD himself. Jesus is the Gospel in fact. The first prophet to preach this message was John the Baptist. Then Jesus started to preach it.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin never talked to muhammad: god didnt talk directly to any of his prophets, except Moses, and that was one of his key miracles,, as for muhammad, like the other prophets , the message was through Gibrael.
Mecca was the holiest place way b4 muhammad,, it was the first house built on earth by the angels, and rebuilt by abraham and ishmael later , and we consider both locations sacred
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway God spoke DIRECTLY to Adam, Eve, Cain, Enoch, Noah, Arabam, Isaac, (an Angel appeared to Ishmael), Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Jesus, Elijah, Job ect
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin we beleive he didnt but even that,, god gave muhammad a higher honor,, he met him!!, in the trip of "israa' and mirage" god miraculously elevated muhammad to the higher heaven,,
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@jspankin now answer me: if jesus is gods son,, does god have other sons? if not , why only one? there is nothing in the bible says he has only one!! so he may have 2, 3, does god have a mother, father, grandmother ,,,
where did jesus say" pray to the cross". where did he even mention cross??, jesus himself fell of his face praying to god,,, he didnt even knew the time of the day of judgment !!!
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway God has many children, he is our father in heaven. Jesus was the first man to be completely filled with Holy Spirit (The manifestation of God's presence), he committed no sin in the eyes of God. we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus has not, he obeyed God to the fullest hence God has exalted him above the angels and above all men (including Mohammad).
Christians should prey to God in Jesus name. meaning with the spiritual authority Jesus had on earth.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin good,, then may be there are other sons of god that reached this level,, if no,, why?, and if yes, then maybe after a while we will find out god has 13 sons and 4 grandparents?? and if jesus is god,, does god fall on his face praying to the other part of himself?? and how is god (jesus ) doesnt know the time of the judgment day!!!
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway There are other sons of God. But Jesus was the first to be totally filled with the holy spirit living in him. God wants all of us to reach that level of "Christ likeness" but God has before the foundations of the world exalted Jesus above all men and angels. God Exists eternally he has to Parents. The spirit of Jesus existed eternally in God and then became flesh. Praying with your face to the floor is biblical and very good, many Christians do this (privately) it is only not Muslim.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin what prevents god to have other sons in the same level?? if so then you would pray to a dozen entity , not three, if jesus's spirit existed etrnally inside god,, we dont both god and jesus exist etrnally olso inside another entity of grandfather?
praying on your face,, i was not saying its about islam, i was wondering , if jesus is god, then how would jesus fall on his face praying to the other part of himself!! and how could he not know the time of the judgment day. !!!
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I think history and society very clearly screams, left to his own devices, mankind is very sinful. So I think this prevents us from being like Jesus.
The bible says the wages of sin death. Hence the implication is Man deserve to die but Jesus does not deserved to die though he died. That's why God has exhaled him to sit at his "right hand". Jesus prayed to God, God is in him but he is distinct from God. Even in heaven Jesus continues to pray to God
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin well, in islam prophets dont do sins,,so no normal humans are in the same level as the prophets, )moses, jesus, muhammad.etc) as for the praying part: prayed to god, he is god, god part of him, still praying to god,,,a simple question jesus is god or not? no god prays to god, AND WHY didnt jesus knew the time of the judgment day, why did god (father) hide this info from hi other part god (jesus)?
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I now quoting you "well, in islam prophets dont do sins" this would mean Mohammad is CERTAINLY NOT A PROPHET OF ISLAM. Mohammad worshiped Idols . Mohammad had more than 4 wives . Not to Mention Mohammad con't tell the difference between an Angel and a Demon. Hence the The Satanic Verses found in Sura 53:19-20. Mohammad was able to be put under a spell. (This was never possible for any biblical prophet).
jspankin 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Jesus never preach the cross, he mentioned the cross and his death to his disciples.Jesus rebuked peter for saying he would not die saying (get behind me Satan, you are not mindful of the things of God). Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. The Christian church of today unfortunately preaches the Gospel of Jesus (which is not bad but misses the point). By the way Jesus never associated with Abraham. He associated with KING David. Jesus is Royal (not Mohammad)
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin jesus mentioned the cross? did he say " thats the trinity pray to that cross" where in the bible does it pray to cross
second , the gospels,, i dont care they teach wht, am not that expert,
third, as i believe, both muhammad and jesus are descendants of Abraham, and all prophets are equal in the eyes of god, and there is nothing called royal , these r human ideas added to favorite prphets over others, but even tho all that are not the point, talk about theology, not meaningless titles
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Jesus Mentioned dieing. Nowhere is trinity mentioned in the Scripture. Jesus said pay to God the Father in heaven. Who prays to the cross? are referring to Catholics or something? It's not about what "they" teach, Jesus taught repent for the Kingdom of Heaven has arrived.
Royalty is a God sanctioned idea. Jesus was asked if he was a king and he replied positively. David was King of Israel. What are you talking about. Jesus is King of Kings. God calls himself the ancient King.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin none of that proves he is god, as for the cross, christians put cross every where and pray to it,, as what i have seen,, if u acknowledge that there is nothing divine about the cross, then good, we r 1 step closer,, but i dont know about catholics or other,
and i salute u for choosing wht jesus said , not what the church say,
God is the King, and david was a ruling king of his people, as was soliman,but jesus was not, not that makes him any less!! he was way higher than these titles
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I don't know why SOME Christians pray to the cross. I'm not trying to prove Jesus is God, but the unique Son of God (We all can be sons of God but not like Jesus in his exalted nature). there is NOTHING divine about the cross. The cross is a symbol of Rome. Jesus was in the blood line of Kings, low in the eyes of the Jews because they could not see who he was, They wanted a warrior king to free them from earthly bondage. Jesus a King in the Kingdom Heaven
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin let me get this straight, i seem lost on wht u believe in,,so u believe Jesus is not god,, just son of god,, who god choose from all humans because he is uniquely exceptionally unsinnful and great?
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Jesus = Son of God, but he was not chosen from among humans just because he was sinless. He was Slain BEFORE the foundation of the world, meaning Jesus' spirit was in heaven with and in God all the time. God took part of himself and put it in the body of Jesus in his mothers womb. Jesus (though he was 100% human and was tempted like everyone else committed no sin). Jesus did the will of God and died for his family. Jesus is the salvation of the world. Mohammad is a false prophet.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin so why dont god have 3 children? and 4 grandparents?? what proof do u have that he doesnt have these family members?? and the jesus story doesnt prove that muhammad is a false prophet,, we can debate but at least have the minimum respect!!!
now, again, if jesus is god (part god or,,,) why didnt he know the time of the judgment day???
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway God has many children. Those who do his will are his children. God has no forefather because. by him all things we made and without him nothing was made. God is the Beginning and the Ending. In other worlds God didn't start when the universe began. God started the Universe. "the Beginning and the Ending"also means you can't fully know or understand God (he is a complex being, not simple like the Koran falsely presents him). You are finite he is infinite.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin so why dont god, as an infinite entity has within him,(as jesus) othe parts of grand parents and other children
plzgoaway 10 months ago
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@plzgoaway I don't you what you mean by "so why dont god, as an infinite entity has within him,(as jesus) othe parts of grand parents and other children"
God has no forefathers. He predates every living being. All humans came out of God. Mary is the mother of Jesus NOT of God.
PS please don't ask me "Since Mary is the mother of Jesus NOT of God, does that mean Jesus is not God then?" Well can ask but I think I answered the question of who Jesus is already.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin , now a simple question to focus our discussion,, IF i am amuslim, a good man, helping the poor, no adultry, no alcohol, not stealing or killing,, and beleiving in all prophets, and in god, and believing and loving jesus (but not as a god), what would jesus say about me?? am i going to hell!!???
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway I truthfully am in no position to say who is going to heaven or hell, that if for God to judge and believe he will Judge justly. But I will say this, in the Canonized Gospels about Jesus. Jesus preached about the Kingdom of Heaven of earth. His message was not about going to heaven. Jesus to his disciples to pray for the will of God to be done on earth just like it is done in heaven. I would also if anyone goes to heaven it is because of Jesus.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin let me be clearer . what criteria jesus made for us to be "good"? did he say go to church every sunday? did he say , kiss the hands of another man and call him father , and build a big palace for him (the vatican) did he say, build statues for me and crosses every where??, or he did say, be good, pay the poor, dont commit adultry,, from my point of view, i follow jesus more than many christians
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway Jesus said no one is good but the father. Going to church does not make you "good". Haven't you heard the phrase "standing in a garage does not make you a car. "? i think you have issues with the Catholicism and rightfully so. It is good that you follow Jesus more than many Christians.
I think YOU should humbly ask the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to reveal himself to YOU in your private timeS of prayer. Don't stop until HE tells you who HE is.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin well i dont know wht christian r u,, and how should i debate all christians at once where they have 1000 different point of view about everything!!, second, i really feel am following all the prophets, starting from adam, ibraham, moses, jesus , muhammad,etc,, and i am trying to be as good as i can, am trying to help anybody in need,, i never drank alcohol, i never had sex outside marriage,, conclusion, am feeling right with my beliefs!!!
plzgoaway 10 months ago
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@plzgoaway I can only repeat what I said before. YOU should humbly ask the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to reveal himself to YOU in your private timeS of prayer. Don't stop until HE tells you who HE is.
Making pilgrimages, facing mecca, declaring Mohammad is God's messenger, stoning the devil ect were Never done by ANY prophet before Mohammad. The truth is Islam is completely foreign to the Bible and the prophets. It is a completely new religion.
jspankin 10 months ago
Respond to this video... The fact is believing in one God, kindness, generosity, not drinking, not committing adultly, not stealing ect are all good traits but they don't make you a Muslim. Being a Muslim (As in the Religion of Islam) is tied by the navel to Mohammad, Koran, and Mecca and Medina, and these elements are contrary to the Prophets. Also the idea that Mohammed is the last prophet is foreign to the Bible. I believe there are still many prophets alive today.
jspankin 10 months ago
@jspankin Ibraham lived in Mecca for a while, and he rebuilt the "kaaba" as for the prophets, moses was not mentioned in the books b4 him, nor jesus, and i believe muhammad was mentioned in the Bible,,but the bible was corrupted, and changed many times, one of these, when the roman emperor ordered all christian factions to agree on a united belief, and they burned every thing else, including Arious, he belived jesus was a prophet, not son of god
plzgoaway 10 months ago
@plzgoaway These ideas that Abraham lived in Mecca for a while, Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba, Muhammad mentioned in the bible really only exist in the minds of Muslims. I don't think any None Muslim who looks at the evidence for this could believe this. The first time in history anybody says Abraham live in Mecca is when Islam was invented. The first time in History anybody ever said Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba was when Islam was invented. Muhammad is not mentioned in the bible at all either
jspankin 10 months ago
Respond to this video...There is really is no reason to think that Mohammad is mentioned in the bible unless you are a Muslim with an agenda to prove Islam is true. But seriously Mohammad is not mentioned by historical character anywhere in the bible at all. When the Jews asked John "are you that prophet?" there is no reason at all what to ever to think this prophet is Muhammad (unless you are desperate to find a link for Muhammad and the bible)
jspankin 10 months ago
Respond to this video...I am bewilder by why Muslims think Muhammad has anything to do with the bible. Just accept that Muhammad started a new religion and had to make it palatable to the Christians and Jews living in Arabia at that time. There were many Christians and Jews living in Mecca and Medina at the time when the Koran was revealed to Muhammad. Muhammad had to make his new religion palatable to them as well as the pagan Arabs.
jspankin 10 months ago