although jordan's athleticism will decline a bit after his first retirement 96-98 (this is natural when you age playing sports) his skill is prolific as well, thus creating perimeter shots and setting an example for KOBE to play for his career. remember, most of KOBE's plays he emulates from jordan's career post 1st-retirement, eg. fadeaways, three point shots, circus shots, etc
unlike KOBE, jordan has a blast full of talent (as a bull) from the day he was drafted to the NBA to the day he retires in 98. he had many options other than just creating tough shots on the perimeter, which involves innumerous hangtime, change directions in mid air to create layups and dunks, and ability to create something out of nothing. he did this constantly in ever game, especially when considering that KOBE up and unders in some games he does it every game.
@psychomajoreflex again, like i said, KOBE does up and unders and reverses in SOME games, i use the term strongly, as jordan (if you watch basketball in the 80's and 90's)...in fact, almost every player back then does that. so which in fact, due to the defenses and the no 3-second rule back then, you would see many players (ie magic larry, clyde) and especially jordan do this often.
it is easy to execute layups and dunks because of the free-movement initiative: the no 3 second rule, the no handcheck from the perimeter: basically eliminating all contact in the game, thus you dont see up-and unders as often as you would back in the day
KOBE does wield the skills to create shots from the perimeter, but that is the best he is able to do especially when he is in decline, meaning that he no longer has the agility and the quick 1st step to drive the basket as much as he did in the past. even then, his talent in the past when driving to score is his up and under move, and thats about that, other than that, his drive is not as advance as jordan's.
I can also say how much more physically and athletically developed players r 2day. Its another technicality sure, but its no different than just looking @ the change in the rule book. My point is that players 4rm both eras would be able 2 adjust 2 playing n a different era. MJ would adjust 2 playing against taller, bigger, stronger, players & more zone defenses. Kobe would adjust 2 more physical play. It would be impossible not 2.
I disagree, and I use history as my guide. This is WHY he's NEVER scored 50+ vs the #1 or 2 ranked 'D at ANY point in his career & WHY his FG%'s in the playoffs/finals vs teams under the OLD rules are PITIFUL.
"The mentality has to change a little bit playing against these teams. These teams are [physical], tough-minded, [hard-nosed]. That's [not] part of [our] DNA."
-- Kobe Bryant; Lebron Outduels Kobe in Cleveland; msn . foxsports . com, Jan 21, 2010
U misunderstood when I said that he'd adjust. I kno he wouldnt be able 2 adjust if teams just started playing more physical 2morrow. Im saying that if he was drafted in2 the league during the physical era, he would have no choice but 2 adjust. It would be a part of profession 2.
@moneymarc3 how would he adjust? he only played as a bench as his two years in the NBA. had SHAQ not been in the center drawing the defense the attention for 80% per se of KOBE's fg attempts, KOBE would be able to score as much and as efficiently as he could judging by the fact that KOBE is not strong enough to penetrate through handchecking let alone sizable defenders that can defend properly in the perimeter. Not saying he wouldnt score, but he would have a hard time doing so.
And I just hate how people take the defenses of a couple of teams 4rm an era and try 2 generalize them 2 every team. EX. The Bad Boy Pistons, Celtics, Knicks. Kobe would play these teams 6 times a year. Still 76 games left in the season. People mention these three teams and act as if every team in the league played like this. Another EX. Raptors, Mavericks, Suns. People mention these teams when and act like there r no good defensive teams now. Celtics, Cavs, 04 Pistons.
From 1999-04, he avg'd MORE FG's & mins per game in BOTH the reg season & playoffs than Shaq, so the old "he played with shaq" excuse is out the window.
I keep saying this, it's NOT a coincidence that his BEST offensive season ('05), as well as the MAJORITY of his BEST offensive games, have ALL occurred AFTER the rules changed..
Youre not even listening 2 me anymore. @ least Im being open-minded 2 wut youre saying. Let me explain what Im trying 2 say.
EX.KOBE GETS DRAFTED IN 1984 RATHER THAN 1996. Chances r that KOBE IN THE 80'S performs better against physical defenses than he has over the last 13 years. Im not implying that he would be doing more than MJ or even the same amount, so plz dont put words in my mouth.
@moneymarc3 when you state that KOBE in eh 80's would perform better against the physical defenses than he had over the last 13 years meant that he would do more than MJ. again, KOBE is not physically stong and quick enough to penetrate through such physical detainments. If you clearly take a look at the CELTICS 08 and PISTONS 04, KOBE was not able to penetrate through tough defenses, thus forcing him to take long range jumpshots, and coherently shoots about 40% for both finals.
The Celtics & '04 Pistons? Look what kobe's DONE vs them when he faced 'em. Neither of those teams are as aggressive, physical or tough as the 90's knicks, heat or PRIME Bad Boy Pistons..
The Celtics were about as "physical" as the new rules would ALLOW & kobe shot 39% vs them in the finals. The Pistons were allowed to mix it up under the old rules & look how kobe disappeared vs them..he shot 38% vs them! The 76ers & Pacers under the old rules, made him shoot 41% & 36% vs them respectively.
U also don't find it odd, that 1 yr AFTER the changes to the rules, that vaunted '04 Piston 'D fell off quickly?
And I am listening to U, its just that it sounds like more of the same apologetic rhetoric of "if's" & coulda-shoulda-wouldas, that don't make any sense because there's NO precedence for it whatsoever..
The defense U "claim" he'd adapt to, he consistently showed a penchant for STRUGGLING against in the past, which conflicts with your "claims"..
How can u criticize me 4 using "if's" and "coulda's" when youre from the same breed of fans who claim Jordan would average 50 ppg if he played 2day? *I DIDNT SAY THAT U SAID IT. I JUST KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE U AND HAVE MADE THAT CLAIM.
"youre from the same breed of fans who claim Jordan would average 50ppg if he played 2day?"
Again, there's PRECEDENCE to make that assumption (although I don't subscribe to that personally). Look at what a 39-40 yr old MJ did vs today's so called "more athletic" guards.
In 2 yrs, a grandpa MJ that was on a bad knee, put up avg's that are virtually IDENTICAL to kobe's career avgs. On the flip side of that, kobe vs the rules MJ played his ENTIRE career against, did NOTHING of the sorts..
@moneymarc3 a lot of people think of this because either they have watched how jordan play, or they know how to execute through defenses as well as jordan when they play a physical game of basketball, you cannot compare KOBE to jordan when both eras of different, as well as their individual talents as well
But thats my point tho. Its easy 2 just look @ a technicality (not saying rules didnt affect performances bcuz they did). I can just as easily say zone defense was illegal in the 80's-even tho I kno teams still got away with it. Just like some players get away with hand-checking 2day. And how often do refs actually call def. 3 secs anyway? Maybe once a game. Players do it all the time but if u touch someone while in the paint the time you're in there doesnt count.
@moneymarc3 they would basically take a look at that every time a big stays in the paint for more than 3 seconds. zone defense was not illegal back then, they still do it, and they do it all the time, not to mention the handckecking and the physicality in the paint. go watch games in the 80's then compare games int he 80's to today's game, you know what i mean by this
I LOVE watching the other guys play, I just HATE how these homers try to sell their tickets using the legacy of the legends, while trying to discredit them. I NEVER look for a dispute, but these homers will send me these derogatory private messages with a video link, claiming that if I show up, they'll quote: "educate" my "dumb ass" LOL!!
So when I go to the link & see them "callin' me out", I respond, only to then listen to them "claim" that I'm "hating", when they ASKED me to show up LOL!!
That's because like myself, he's an avid sports fan, particularly when it comes to the NBA & has WATCHED it for 30+ years. When U have that going for U, plus knowledge of the rules that governs the game, it gives U a certain historical perspective to keep & put things in their PROPER context.
This is what's SORELY lacking from MANY of the homers here on YouTube. They say the most ABSURD things about the Legends & their era of players. This is WHY longtime fans get SERIOUSLY annoyed by them..
Like honestly I respect your longevity as a sports fan, but sometimes I think people give legends too much respect rather than giving them their due respect. Not saying u do but older sports fans have a tendency 2 try 2 downplay modern players' talent off of technicalities. ex. "U could hancheck then." "There was no defensive 3 sec." I talked to one guy on here who said Kobe is only as good as Dominique Wilkins! Wut? Tho some younger fans r guilty of downplaying legends' talent as well.
That's said for good reason. There's a WORLD of difference between what we have today vs then, when U had defenders who were able to place a STRONG forearm/hand on U, causing the offensive guy to have to turn his back, just to shield the ball due to defensive pressure. Being able to aggressively body the shooters keeps them from CONSISTENTLY gettin' off CLEAN looks.
And the def 3-sec rule has OPENED UP the lanes more than they've EVER been, makin it EASIER to drive.
"Our rules are [focused] on keeping the middle [open] to offer [more opportunities] for players to cut to the basket. When we [disallowed] the use of the [hand] & [forearm] to the [body], the defensive 3-second rule in [conjunction] with the [hand check] interpretation, [gave] offensive players on the [perimeter], [more] offensive [freedom]."
-- Stu Jackson; NBA Exec. VP of Operations; "Season Review with Stu Jackson", May 5, 2007
Now U see WHY us longtime fans feel the way we do..
The rules changes have CHEAPENED the accomplishments of the Legends in the eyes of these kids today. They see today's guards EASILY puttin' up 25+ppg without the SKILL it took in yrs past & are TOTALLY unaware of WHY this is so.
And I gotta be BRUTALLY honest, as good as they are, your kobe's, T-mac's, Wade's & Lebron's are the bi-product of this. The new rules have given kids today the ILLUSION that those guys are as dominant & have the same kinda' effect on the game that B4, only MJ had.
kobe, lebron, and wade are excellent and i still think kobe and james are a step above wade but jordan is the bar, that bar has yet to be reached and maybe it never will.....
HEY BLACK ADAM I WILL DEBATE WITH YOU, YOUR MOM IS A HOE
indiana4ever72 2 months ago
although jordan's athleticism will decline a bit after his first retirement 96-98 (this is natural when you age playing sports) his skill is prolific as well, thus creating perimeter shots and setting an example for KOBE to play for his career. remember, most of KOBE's plays he emulates from jordan's career post 1st-retirement, eg. fadeaways, three point shots, circus shots, etc
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
unlike KOBE, jordan has a blast full of talent (as a bull) from the day he was drafted to the NBA to the day he retires in 98. he had many options other than just creating tough shots on the perimeter, which involves innumerous hangtime, change directions in mid air to create layups and dunks, and ability to create something out of nothing. he did this constantly in ever game, especially when considering that KOBE up and unders in some games he does it every game.
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
@psychomajoreflex again, like i said, KOBE does up and unders and reverses in SOME games, i use the term strongly, as jordan (if you watch basketball in the 80's and 90's)...in fact, almost every player back then does that. so which in fact, due to the defenses and the no 3-second rule back then, you would see many players (ie magic larry, clyde) and especially jordan do this often.
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
lebron does this and so soes wade, but it is rare you would see them do that
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
it is easy to execute layups and dunks because of the free-movement initiative: the no 3 second rule, the no handcheck from the perimeter: basically eliminating all contact in the game, thus you dont see up-and unders as often as you would back in the day
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
KOBE does wield the skills to create shots from the perimeter, but that is the best he is able to do especially when he is in decline, meaning that he no longer has the agility and the quick 1st step to drive the basket as much as he did in the past. even then, his talent in the past when driving to score is his up and under move, and thats about that, other than that, his drive is not as advance as jordan's.
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
I can also say how much more physically and athletically developed players r 2day. Its another technicality sure, but its no different than just looking @ the change in the rule book. My point is that players 4rm both eras would be able 2 adjust 2 playing n a different era. MJ would adjust 2 playing against taller, bigger, stronger, players & more zone defenses. Kobe would adjust 2 more physical play. It would be impossible not 2.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
Kobe would adjust 2 physical 'D?
I disagree, and I use history as my guide. This is WHY he's NEVER scored 50+ vs the #1 or 2 ranked 'D at ANY point in his career & WHY his FG%'s in the playoffs/finals vs teams under the OLD rules are PITIFUL.
"The mentality has to change a little bit playing against these teams. These teams are [physical], tough-minded, [hard-nosed]. That's [not] part of [our] DNA."
-- Kobe Bryant; Lebron Outduels Kobe in Cleveland; msn . foxsports . com, Jan 21, 2010
blackadam06 2 years ago
U misunderstood when I said that he'd adjust. I kno he wouldnt be able 2 adjust if teams just started playing more physical 2morrow. Im saying that if he was drafted in2 the league during the physical era, he would have no choice but 2 adjust. It would be a part of profession 2.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
@moneymarc3 how would he adjust? he only played as a bench as his two years in the NBA. had SHAQ not been in the center drawing the defense the attention for 80% per se of KOBE's fg attempts, KOBE would be able to score as much and as efficiently as he could judging by the fact that KOBE is not strong enough to penetrate through handchecking let alone sizable defenders that can defend properly in the perimeter. Not saying he wouldnt score, but he would have a hard time doing so.
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
And I just hate how people take the defenses of a couple of teams 4rm an era and try 2 generalize them 2 every team. EX. The Bad Boy Pistons, Celtics, Knicks. Kobe would play these teams 6 times a year. Still 76 games left in the season. People mention these three teams and act as if every team in the league played like this. Another EX. Raptors, Mavericks, Suns. People mention these teams when and act like there r no good defensive teams now. Celtics, Cavs, 04 Pistons.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
Kobe under the old def rules
561 games - 21.77ppg on 42.3 FG%
Kobe under the new rules
300+ games - 31.75ppg on 46.4 FG%
From 1999-04, he avg'd MORE FG's & mins per game in BOTH the reg season & playoffs than Shaq, so the old "he played with shaq" excuse is out the window.
I keep saying this, it's NOT a coincidence that his BEST offensive season ('05), as well as the MAJORITY of his BEST offensive games, have ALL occurred AFTER the rules changed..
blackadam06 2 years ago
Youre not even listening 2 me anymore. @ least Im being open-minded 2 wut youre saying. Let me explain what Im trying 2 say.
EX.KOBE GETS DRAFTED IN 1984 RATHER THAN 1996. Chances r that KOBE IN THE 80'S performs better against physical defenses than he has over the last 13 years. Im not implying that he would be doing more than MJ or even the same amount, so plz dont put words in my mouth.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
@moneymarc3 when you state that KOBE in eh 80's would perform better against the physical defenses than he had over the last 13 years meant that he would do more than MJ. again, KOBE is not physically stong and quick enough to penetrate through such physical detainments. If you clearly take a look at the CELTICS 08 and PISTONS 04, KOBE was not able to penetrate through tough defenses, thus forcing him to take long range jumpshots, and coherently shoots about 40% for both finals.
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
The Celtics & '04 Pistons? Look what kobe's DONE vs them when he faced 'em. Neither of those teams are as aggressive, physical or tough as the 90's knicks, heat or PRIME Bad Boy Pistons..
The Celtics were about as "physical" as the new rules would ALLOW & kobe shot 39% vs them in the finals. The Pistons were allowed to mix it up under the old rules & look how kobe disappeared vs them..he shot 38% vs them! The 76ers & Pacers under the old rules, made him shoot 41% & 36% vs them respectively.
blackadam06 2 years ago
U also don't find it odd, that 1 yr AFTER the changes to the rules, that vaunted '04 Piston 'D fell off quickly?
And I am listening to U, its just that it sounds like more of the same apologetic rhetoric of "if's" & coulda-shoulda-wouldas, that don't make any sense because there's NO precedence for it whatsoever..
The defense U "claim" he'd adapt to, he consistently showed a penchant for STRUGGLING against in the past, which conflicts with your "claims"..
blackadam06 2 years ago
How can u criticize me 4 using "if's" and "coulda's" when youre from the same breed of fans who claim Jordan would average 50 ppg if he played 2day? *I DIDNT SAY THAT U SAID IT. I JUST KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE U AND HAVE MADE THAT CLAIM.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
"youre from the same breed of fans who claim Jordan would average 50ppg if he played 2day?"
Again, there's PRECEDENCE to make that assumption (although I don't subscribe to that personally). Look at what a 39-40 yr old MJ did vs today's so called "more athletic" guards.
In 2 yrs, a grandpa MJ that was on a bad knee, put up avg's that are virtually IDENTICAL to kobe's career avgs. On the flip side of that, kobe vs the rules MJ played his ENTIRE career against, did NOTHING of the sorts..
blackadam06 2 years ago
@moneymarc3 a lot of people think of this because either they have watched how jordan play, or they know how to execute through defenses as well as jordan when they play a physical game of basketball, you cannot compare KOBE to jordan when both eras of different, as well as their individual talents as well
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
But thats my point tho. Its easy 2 just look @ a technicality (not saying rules didnt affect performances bcuz they did). I can just as easily say zone defense was illegal in the 80's-even tho I kno teams still got away with it. Just like some players get away with hand-checking 2day. And how often do refs actually call def. 3 secs anyway? Maybe once a game. Players do it all the time but if u touch someone while in the paint the time you're in there doesnt count.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
@moneymarc3 they would basically take a look at that every time a big stays in the paint for more than 3 seconds. zone defense was not illegal back then, they still do it, and they do it all the time, not to mention the handckecking and the physicality in the paint. go watch games in the 80's then compare games int he 80's to today's game, you know what i mean by this
psychomajoreflex 6 months ago
Great way to honor these cats bruce. Hell, i'm subscribe to these cats!
80s90sRealBasketball 2 years ago
I LOVE watching the other guys play, I just HATE how these homers try to sell their tickets using the legacy of the legends, while trying to discredit them. I NEVER look for a dispute, but these homers will send me these derogatory private messages with a video link, claiming that if I show up, they'll quote: "educate" my "dumb ass" LOL!!
So when I go to the link & see them "callin' me out", I respond, only to then listen to them "claim" that I'm "hating", when they ASKED me to show up LOL!!
blackadam06 2 years ago 3
LOL. I love your commentary bro. I hope you never retire. You put the fear of an undertaker into these cats bro.
thelebronjamesblitz 2 years ago
@ blackadam06, r u and Bruce Blitz the same person?
moneymarc3 2 years ago
Of course not..
blackadam06 2 years ago
O ok..Just wondering bcuz u guyz have similar outlooks on the game.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
That's because like myself, he's an avid sports fan, particularly when it comes to the NBA & has WATCHED it for 30+ years. When U have that going for U, plus knowledge of the rules that governs the game, it gives U a certain historical perspective to keep & put things in their PROPER context.
This is what's SORELY lacking from MANY of the homers here on YouTube. They say the most ABSURD things about the Legends & their era of players. This is WHY longtime fans get SERIOUSLY annoyed by them..
blackadam06 2 years ago
Like honestly I respect your longevity as a sports fan, but sometimes I think people give legends too much respect rather than giving them their due respect. Not saying u do but older sports fans have a tendency 2 try 2 downplay modern players' talent off of technicalities. ex. "U could hancheck then." "There was no defensive 3 sec." I talked to one guy on here who said Kobe is only as good as Dominique Wilkins! Wut? Tho some younger fans r guilty of downplaying legends' talent as well.
moneymarc3 2 years ago
"U could handcheck then"
That's said for good reason. There's a WORLD of difference between what we have today vs then, when U had defenders who were able to place a STRONG forearm/hand on U, causing the offensive guy to have to turn his back, just to shield the ball due to defensive pressure. Being able to aggressively body the shooters keeps them from CONSISTENTLY gettin' off CLEAN looks.
And the def 3-sec rule has OPENED UP the lanes more than they've EVER been, makin it EASIER to drive.
blackadam06 2 years ago
"Our rules are [focused] on keeping the middle [open] to offer [more opportunities] for players to cut to the basket. When we [disallowed] the use of the [hand] & [forearm] to the [body], the defensive 3-second rule in [conjunction] with the [hand check] interpretation, [gave] offensive players on the [perimeter], [more] offensive [freedom]."
-- Stu Jackson; NBA Exec. VP of Operations; "Season Review with Stu Jackson", May 5, 2007
Now U see WHY us longtime fans feel the way we do..
blackadam06 2 years ago
The rules changes have CHEAPENED the accomplishments of the Legends in the eyes of these kids today. They see today's guards EASILY puttin' up 25+ppg without the SKILL it took in yrs past & are TOTALLY unaware of WHY this is so.
And I gotta be BRUTALLY honest, as good as they are, your kobe's, T-mac's, Wade's & Lebron's are the bi-product of this. The new rules have given kids today the ILLUSION that those guys are as dominant & have the same kinda' effect on the game that B4, only MJ had.
blackadam06 2 years ago
LOL!!!
This is hillarious LOL!!
blackadam06 2 years ago
kobe, lebron, and wade are excellent and i still think kobe and james are a step above wade but jordan is the bar, that bar has yet to be reached and maybe it never will.....
achillesbeast 2 years ago