as an atheist it is against the law to hold public office in quite a few states still,including my own of sc.and as you already stated the whole gay rights issue...justice and liberty they say? for all they say?...hmmm what about the millions of americans who have been convicted of a crime in the past,served there time and turned there lives around.who can't vote and can be legally discriminated against by employers.taxation without representation comes to mind.we are not a free society.
I'm Canadian, and I love my country and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I will say that Canadians in general are not very patriotic. We don't idolize our leaders, we make fun of them. Canadians are not flag wavers. We are proud of our country, but it's not a cult with us.
The Pledge affirms the idea that everyone can pursue “liberty and justice,” not that they have it right now. I’m sure its words helped inspire many to do just that--insist on and gain more liberty and justice. I don’t say the Pledge, because I think it makes much more sense to have the populace recite the Preamble of the Constitution before school, meetings and events, so we remember why we created this nation. As others say the Pledge, I’ll recite the Preamble.
Agreed on this. The under god part could be changed to "of it's people" or something like that. I totally agree with the blind allegiance thing as well. It's a dangerous path to walk.
Sadly our armed forces are christian based which is why most chaplains are christians, even the army song says "faith in god" its sick. The pledge having under god, fucks up the caydence.
As an atheist that serves in our armed forces I can say honestly that overly concerning ourselves with past faults is nihilistic. Our country has blood on its hands to be sure, however, nothing can change the past. We can't even truly make up for it. What was done was done and reparations are merely a gesture, not repayment. We need to as a nation instead work to remember past faults and not repeat them. That is the greatest way we can soothe the pain inflicted by past wrongs.
@mcalsip As an interesting side note, when a person enlists we swear on oath of enlistment. We promise to support and defend the constitution and obey the orders of the president and officers appointed over us. This also means that certain things are compulsory while serving to include saluting the flag during the anthem and when it passes in a parade. However, because of our oath it is optional to say the pledge with civilians, but the default position is to not do so.
I believe that imaginary borders are a contrivance of a barbaric past that we must evolve out of in order to ensure the survival of our species. With that being said, I've composed a new "pledge"... I pledge allegiance to the people of all walks of humanity. And to the earth on which we live upon. One planet, irreplaceable. With freedom and abundance for all!
I don't think soldiers gave their lives for the preservation of "freedom" as you say in this video. Wars are instigated over acquisition of resources, with propaganda like "freedom" used to justify the elites' war games.
I agree with to a certain extent, but keep in mind the section of video you're citing shows soldiers of the Revolutionary and Civil Wars. The Founding Fathers wanted freedom from England and the Civil War was fought largely to free an entire class of people. Modern-day wars might be based on other, more insidious factors, but that's not the statement I made. The foundation of this county is based on war for freedom and the liberty we enjoy today is the fruit of that sacrifice.
I vow to uphold and defend what is best about America, and to endeavor to change what it worst about America, so that my country of birth may achieve its full potential, and so that it may be a shining beacon to everyone else, around the world, now and for centuries to come.
Excellent video, you made a lot of good points. I've actually seen this post on Facebook before, I responded by pointing out that the Pledge of Allegiance is still recited every morning and the American flag is still flown out front of just about every public school in this country. The post itself is a total fabrication. I ought to know, I'm a school teacher.
Dude, there's not anyone on youtube that likes your videos more than I do. I didn't like this one so much though. While I agree with most everything you posted, I still love the flag. Not because I follow it blindly. We cant blame the flag for Indian genocide, slavery or the KKK. We can only blame our ignorance and religion was a big part of that ignorance. I love the flag for what it "could" represent. Unfortunately all you and I can do is wait for evolution to weed out the retards.
I still don't think it makes any sense to be proud of your nationality. You had nothing to do with the place you were born, so what is there to be proud of exactly? The fact that you share the country with people who have actually accomplished great things? I find that odd.
Those would be prisoners of war kinda war. Those people were viewed as a crediable threat to the USA. Either with intent to kill people or in supporting the people who intend to kill people. I dont think it was handled properly but it still was was not a concentration camp.
I like your response to the post, actually.. I honestly think my only response would be something like:
"You have the freedom to speak this pledge whenever you like. Luckily, you (and everyone else) also have the freedom to not speak it, whenever you like. And it's this freedom I'm fighting for, on both sides. I wouldn't want anyone to be forced to say anything they didn't believe in."
I've actually had this remark come up on my facebook news feed more than once. I always ignore it but it does irk me. I personally don't consider myself an "american" anymore because I don't support anything the government does. I consider myself an "earthling" and that's where it ends. I also find is kind of scary how obsessed most americans are with nationalism.
It's amazes me how many people actually believe the U.S is a Christian Nation. Sarah Palin says it often. My bad Sarah Palin has zero credibility anyways.
I Pledge allegiance to the CONSTITUTION of the United States of America. And to the Republic, which it establishes. One nation with Liberty And Justice for those who can afford a good lawyer.
Are they saying the schools don't have the pledge anymore? In Texas (yeah, I know) the kids have it through middle school (and high school, I believe) and they even added a pledge to the Texas flag, complete with "under god." If they're saying that adults should have to say it every day, that's kinda stupid.
RE: If you are really interested in retaining the ways of the founding fathers, why not change the pledge to the way it was before the 50's? What could that possibly hurt?
Not a bad video but to be honest being proud or ashamed of anything beyond your own actions is ridiculous to me. I didn't save or kill anyone by choosing to be born a white American citizen. Actions are where people should be looking for one's true worth instead of one's color, nationality or religious affiliation.
Whenever i said the pledge as a kid, i took it to be a daily reminder of how my conduct should be, that i should be fair and just to all. though i apparently i might be the only one to look at it that way.
I look forward to the day when i can say the pledge and have it be true, that i can say " liberty and justice for all " and know it to be true.
Just because i am not overtly flag waving, that does not mean i don't love my country.
I can't think of a single response that would be fitting. Honestly, I would have a whole bunch of responses that I'd want to give. I think, though, that I would most likely end up explaining that America wasn't founded as a christian nation, and I'd inform that one guy that we are kind of forced to use money, regardless of what's written on it. And yeah, I'd point out what all they're offended by, first and foremost the fact that they're offended about people being offended.
@DruzzillandRo Oh no! Someone un-subbed! What are you expecting? Do you think the guy will cry about it? Un-sub and shut up. Nobody cares if you stay or go.
I would have responded that "under God" was not in the pledge in the first place, that it was invented by a socialist pastor who would have included "under God" if he thought it should be there. Then add basically what you said about how it's a giant lie in the first place and just a loyalty oath that nobody should just blindly accept.
Ive always found Americans obsession with their flag quite strange, Even when I was a kid watching Hulk Hogan on tv he enters the Areana with "I am a real American" theme song playing carrying a huge American flag, and wearing a small one as a bandanna. Why does he do that? who was questioning he was an American? Maybe he just doesnt want Donald Trump is on his case.
I always made fun of the pledge when I was a kid. Instead of putting my hand over my heart it would go under my armpit to make fart noises... well actually I could never make the noise so I would say stuff like "one nation under peanut butter" or something lol.
My problem with the pledge, beyond the god reference, is that it is a damned loyalty oath. If you were born in this country and are a loyal american, no oath is necessary. Anybody remember Joe McCarthy and his damned, ARE YOU NOW OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY crap. America is a free country and that means you're free to be a commie if you want. But commies were prosecuted by the FBI under McCarthy. It's not just exclusionary, it's just plain WRONG. Put it to bed.
Being proud of one's country is as stupid as it is funny in a sense.
"I'm proud to be XYZ, because my people invented this and introduced that."
"And what part have you in all this?"
"Uh..."
I'm German and I'm not PROUD of it - I rather feel LUCKY about it. I could as well have been born and died in some hellhole of a failed state.
How can anyone be proud of anything he has not achieved himself? I have a master's degree and I'm proud of that because I saw it through while many others failed.
how to end the "This country was founded on Christianity" bullshit: Treat of Tripoli; Drafted by George Washington, signed by John Adams - 1796-1797. In quote: "As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;...."
I would have replied by posting the original pledge of allegiance. They point out that people are offended by under god, and they are somehow wrong for being so, but anytime there is a billboard or promo that omits under god from the pledge, it's the ones who apparently "don't care" who are making a fuss about it.
Nationalism or patriotism is only acceptable for conservatives who feel they are MORE American than those who are non-white, educated, and non-christian. No one ( in their eyes) may love this country as much as they do (while bashing this government).
Isn't it odd how they scream for freedom while endorsing a religion which is intolerant of it.
this country is fucked i really don't know how we can fix it is what i hate to say "beyond the point of no return" America is a an old building that stood for centuries but now is gonna fall this country it is a ticking time bomb trying to fix it would stall but leaving it alone is dangerous i mean you can't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers we need a government change and fast!!!! - that's probably the best chance now (in my opinion)
My first reaction wouldve been a more fact-based rebuttal. I wouldve went on there & stating how "under god" wasnt originally in the pledge. I would've stating how many of our founding fathers were not only non-Christians, but diest, atheists, & even ant-Christian. But that wouldve only been my first reaction... I wouldve then caught myself & realized that those people dont care about the actual history or equality for all people. They only care about what society bending to their preferences.
I would've posted: "Gods aren't real." hoping to elicit a reaction with which I could reply: "Oh, so you're offended? Perhaps YOU should leave the country, then?"
My thanks to DR, Faithcheck, Fishhead, Living Dinosaur and your other YT friends for inspiring me to be a free thinker. I am 51 years old, and have never felt better about my self than I do now, since I discovered you guys. Bravo, keep up the great work.
When this nation was founded there was no national pledge, even up to and after the civil war that was no official oath or pledge. Many of these phrases that people love to pick up on had not been a part of the foundations of America. The Framers- or the Founding Fathers- never actually put in God We Trust on the money, or even wrote the pledge. It is sad that it took me this long to be able to realize this. I think we need to learn the history of the pledge before we are demaned to recite it.
The history of the pledge is interesting. The original pledge went something like this; "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all." The history of the pledge can be found on various sites like wikipedia and others. To boil it down "under God" was not added til 1954 a long 62 years after the first writing of the original pledge. I never actually learned about this until I got into college. (part 2)
The only problem I have with the Pledge of Allegiance is the part where is states that it is a "Republic for Richard Stans". Who is this Richard Stans, anyway? Was he one of the Founding Fathers?
So this is going to be drawn out in a few posts here. One thing that most people don't bring up is that Francis Bellamy the author of the Pledge of Allegiance was a socialist. The roots of his socialism came from Christian Socialism. He was a leftist pastor whose theology actually lead to such this as Liberation Theology and Social Theology, all very left leaning liberal theologies. (all things that the aforementioned Glenn Beck has railed about). (part 1)
SPOT ON! Unfortunately, too much of your rational, reasonable, and correct response to The Pledge just goes right over the heads of far too many Americans who are blinded by their ideology and do not WANT to think for themselves.
FACT: "Under God" was added to The Pledge in the 1950's during a moment of national weakness in regards to separation of church and state. The Pledge today violates the 1st Amendments "Freedom of Religion" as it implies USA authorization of a particular religion.
I have never once said the pledge. Even in school I just stood up and was silent for the 20 secs in take to finish saying it. I always found the pledge kind of weird, it's like something Nazi Germany does.
The flag is a symbol. If one pledges their allegiance, it should be to the nation or the values of that nation, not to the symbol of the nation. But that's not a big deal. I understand intent.
bb1televator is right re: the oxymoron of "One nation under god".
I would be proud to say the pledge of allegiance if not for the fact that, as an atheist, it makes me a liar. I'm furious that the Christian majority has polluted the official pledge to the country I love. I am an American too dammit!
I would say that "under God" wasn't added until the 50's and if you think that this is a nation founded under Christian Principal's you're wrong. The settlers came here seeking religious freedom and that very freedom they were looking for you are now trying to take away buy imposing your god on everyone else. Have a little compassion and realize everything isn't about you.
I saw some "fat ignorant Americans" in Italy some years ago. They were really obnoxious and demanded they should be able to pay for the food with dollars, shouting loudly that if not for them everyone would be Nazis and the usual. So sometimes they do have passports! ;)
The Pledge creates a religion out of the state. I wonder how all the good Christians who are so indignant about idol worship and false gods can sleep at night.
i am sick of this "if you dont like it leave" mentality. it seems to me that many of th people claiming to be patriotic are rejecting the true bedrocks we were founded on. this country was designed not to be static, that if the people didnt like something they could try an change it, not run away to some other country.
I am glad I bailed out of america. Europe is where it's at. Germany is a REAL christian nation, founded or formed by christians and more than half the ppl here don't believe in 'any' god. They too smart to be fooled like the rest of the western world....minus the states.
Flags are meaningless symbols. The Constitution, and your rights are what you should be proud of, or in support of.
@helltrackrider Anarchy doesn't mean liberty or justice either. It's just admitting that the big dog rules all. It's a bully's paradise. Government is not the enemy, the problem with government of the people, is that the people need to be more involved in their own governing. The reality is that as people are not involved, the government is more and more resembling anarchy
It's so nice when you finally hear someone talk about something that's been weighing on you for quite some time here. I agree with you on the big picture here. I'd be happy to pledge my allegiance to ideals or to certain people but not to a country that doesn't represent the ideals that it only pretends to stand for. I could even probably pledge my allegiance to the Constitution, but not to the undefined blob that is "America" today.
Even when I was a Christian, I stopped saying the pledge in High School, because I recognized that the "liberty and justice for all" part was a lie. But I'm also opposed to the "one nation under God" part, because that part is unconstitutional. One thing I never got is what it means to pledge allegiance to a flag. A flag is an inanimate object. It's about as senseless as worshiping a golden calf.
I've upset family members over the fact that I said that "under god" should be removed since it wasn't added in until the 1950's. That this country isn't a christian nation and that we should respect everybodys views.
Yes, that's exactly what the stereotype is, I'm not kidding. I always have trouble readjusting my ideas. I mean when I think america I really think obese and stupid. My next thought is, well they aren't ALL like that, they can't be, right ? And to some extent that's true, but it still feels like that :/ The problem is not that you are this proud, the problem is that your politicians and media are downright retarded. I'm sorry, there is no other way to put it.
Good Video. I'd prefer that we return to the original form of the pledge which is as follows: I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all. It's much more inclusive and was written by a Christian Socialist. You won't find that in your school's American history textbook. The current form of the pledge only promotes Christian-American Imperialism.
As a Canadian I can recall a time when we used to swear an oath to Queen in school thankfully that practice ended in 89. As this country more to the right and becomes more conservative I find issues patriotism here as well the gov't here tried to change anthem to make it more politically correct however, they learned that majority of Canadians do not want God in the anthem they closed that discussion fast.
Great entry in the DDOJ contest! And some of the other comments here are good ones, too! I can't think of any better ones. I hope The Faith Channel links to everyone's response to his contest.
I'd say, "We should say, 'One nation *over* God,'" not because I blasphemously think humans are above God (as an atheist, I respectfully don't believe the bronze-age rock-thrower exists), but because we all- Christians included- behave as though we are above God. C'mon Christians, stop coveting stuff and working on Sat/Sunday as if it's okay!
You said "fucking"! You've been watching too many of my videos. Always nice to see a new DR in my sub box. Great comeback. I would probably have shot off a rant about "who's god?" in the heat of the moment. You were wise to wait, calm down and think about it. I've been here 10 years now, and the thing I find strange is how much the kind of American you portray here "loves" their country and yet how much they don't give a fuck about their fellow countrymen (No taxes! Socialized healthcare! etc).
Thanks! I do tend to cuss when I get mad. :) It's true what you say about Americans loving their country but being indifferent to their countrymen. Everyone is up-in-arm about socialized healthcare, but you don't see the Tea Party attempting to topple the socialized police and fire departments or public school system. No, just on the issue that really matters, healthcare, is when the evil term "socialism" invoked and fears raised that America will go the way of Nazi Germany.
Imho, that's exactly the kind of mind-set people find contradictory outside the US. At least in Germany, I think, the pledge of allegiance to a flag, as a nationalist symbol, and flag waving on every occasion, is what people immediately connect to the kind of exaggerated nationalism the US liberated us from decades ago, whereas socialized healthcare is considered a perfectly normal topic of a democratic country, where the majority of people really participates in politics.
Still, both types of nationalism are a little bit different, though. You have to keep in mind, that Nazi Germanys swastika-flag was the flag of the national-socialist movement, not the 'Reich'. That's a fact, a lot of Germans don't even recognize.
Apart from that, any kind of collectivism on a national scale has a nationalist, but also socialist, connotation in both our countries, I think, as both national-socialism and communism overemphasized collective thinking.
The flag reminds me of Americans willing to sacrifice their freedom for a symbol of freedom. Texas made a law that you can't burn the flag. The supreme court said the law was unconstitutional. Immediately our president said we should make a national law that banned burning of the flag. wtf? The flag is a SYMBOL of our freedom and not more important than our freedom. So now the flag reminds me of stupid Americans who don't deserve their freedom.
I think the fact that it was added in the 50s under the cloud of fear of godless communism and not at the foundation of our country with our deist forefathers is highly relevant.
I would've said the same as you, but probobly add "FYI; I'm an Atheist and I'm not offended by the pledge. In fact, I want Liberty and Justice for ALL, so it seems I am more american than those yes on 8 people!"
I'm not American of course, but I certainly am more than the shit stains who fit the stereotype :P.
1) "your PROUD to be an American"? why? it takes nothing to be an one, except being born. I could understand if you proud of those that made it what it is today.
2) you "love America" I feel saying you love a country again is twisted, in the same terms that the religious call each other brothers. - its emotive.
@marcarmstrong88 ... You talk about blindly following actions such as pledging allegiance to a flag however have you thought about why you are using these kind of terms, when talking about a country. From what I have seen I only hear this rhetoric in the "west" from Americans.
I'm proud because it's the country of my birth and I have great affection for its people. Just the same, I am proud to be half Iranian and I carry on the traditions of father's culture as well. I cook Persian food all the time and I am still trying to learn to speak Farsi. I love America because it is unique and has many opportunities. I appreciate living here very much, especially since I've traveled the world several times and realize how different opportunities are elsewhere.
@DiscoveringReligion Yep I figured that much, but all I'm pointing out is Americans are constantly proclaiming the love for the country, as if anyone is doubting. But why use such an evocative term? I don't think its a term that spawned spontaneously from YOU, rather its become a chant.
And since I'm not born in American should I be ashamed? or maybe just proud to be born as a human?
Its not just you but many Americans SOUND like Nationalist. and that's not to dissimilar to the religious.
Because america allows it's citizens to own guns, while many nations do not. America has the separation of church and state, while many nations do not. America guarantees a constitutional right to free speech, free expression, etc., while many nations do not.
@Drgamedood Well I've seen on many occasions how America does not uphold the any of what you said was "guaranteed". But anyway you tend to be proud of some ones actions, not your self because of others actions. When 2 babies are born and put side by side, one from America and one not, do you look at on more proudly? As an American that sits on my ass and do not all my life can I still be proud to be an American?
P.S. you can keep your guns and all the deaths that comes with it.
@marcarmstrong88 You look at the bad, and use that as a basis for your hatred of america. While I look at the good, and use that as a basis for love of america. Sure, america's not perfect, but no country is.
The "Pledge" was written when a lot of European immigrants were coming into this country ( many of them Catholics whom the protestants feared would become a political force) The pledge was designed to make sure that the children of these immigrants would be loyal to the United States and not the countries of their parents. We don't allow children to enter into contracts until they are 18. It is ridiculous to force children to recite a pledge they do not understand. Wait until they are 18.
Indivisible - "Incapable of undergoing division", god - "A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions" So you non - religious, polythestic, nature worshipers ect are not real Americans, yes that's completely indivisible >>
I disagree with you. Not on your major points, by the way, simply with how you view the pledge. I am a patriotic American and a veteran. The way I view the pledge and the flag as ideals more than what is real. We as a country have done terrible things that we cannot forget. We are still doing terrible things to, as pointed out, homosexuals amongst others.
The government changes, presidents, congressmen, and others. I have loyalty to the flag for the ideals I feel it represents.
Being a veteran I am sure you have a much different perspective and I cannot pretended to empathize with the experiences you've had. I believe nationalism and pride on one's nation is good to a certain point, but when it is a blind, unquestioning loyalty, where anything the countries does is accepted by its people, then that can be very dangerous! Elected gov officials change, but the best interests of its people are hardly top priority for many of them, especially in org like the CIA.
No words have any more meaning than we give them. The Pledge (well, any pledge) should be voluntary. Requiring the Pledge is nationalism, but voluntarily taking the Pledge (and meaning it) is patriotic. Taking the Pledge means the taker is dedicating themselves to righting those wrongs you mentioned. There is nothing wrong with an agreed upon unified message. "Under God" was added by Congress 62 years after the Pledge was written. It should be returned to its original form
@DiscoveringReligion I too am a veteran, and I got in a big argument in the military for admitting that I think people are more important than a flag. It was a terrible experience, you'd think I was goose-stepping shouting "hail Hitler!" The flag is a cloth, but the people who died for our freedom are real, and deserve to be honored. So are the people who live in this country, as well as others. The flag should never be placed above any human life.
@rykoodasr That being said, the Pledge of Allegiance violates our right to dissent. As ironic as it may sound, those who died for our freedom also died for the freedom to disagree with our government. Forcing any part of the pledge on people dishonors the soldiers who fought for America.
I'm with george carlin, when I say I find patriottism absurd, especially when people say they're proud to be (insert country here). So you're proud to be born and/or raised in a country without having had any control in the matter whatsoever? You're going to defend your country just because you're born in it? That's not patriottism, that's arrogance, saying the country is lucky to have you to defend it. If your country was so great, it wouldn't need you to defend it or praise it.
Apart from the "under God part, I have nothing bad to say about the pledge of allegiance. Actually, it may help immigrant children to integrate better and feel American like everyone else. In western Europe we have huge problems with immigrant kids who don't want to integrate. Such a pledge could have a positive effect. Also, I don't believe it's remotely comparable to nazism considering "Republic, liberty, justice" words which means it's an allegiance to the free USA, not a dictatorship.
yea in a way I don't see a problem with it, and also in the US students still do the pledge every morning, and they aren't forced to do it. They are allowed to be respectful, and allow others to do so if they so choose. Trust me this is what conservatives are getting up in arms about they just want pure conformity. And that having the choice to say it or not is a very American value. So in a way you are right this helps immigrants integrate easily. but US is use to immigrants
excellent video, it reminds me of the narrative of the life of Fredrick Douglas, a book I think every american should read. take care and thanks kindly for sharing these videos, cheers from san diego
I'm from Canada but when I've gone down to the Southern parts of the US I find the extreme blind patriotism disturbing; not because they love their country but I find being prideful for where they were born instead of your personal accomplishments to be incredibly foolishly egocentric, sort of like "racial pride"
ftr I do not lump all Americas, or even most, into this mindset.
lol I live in oklahoma right now, my dad in Atlanta. Anyway dude. I will have to say that yea its pretty frightful, but luckily not a lot of people are like the stereotypes in the cities in the south, but rural areas are very much conformist, and if you don't agree 100% they pretty much call you the odd ball. I don't see how ppl live in rural areas now. Anyway fun fact: Oklahomans refer to soda as pop. Yes we call it pop. just like Canadians. I don't know why.
The Philippines have something like a "pledge," The Panatang Makabayan ("Patriot's Oath") is used in flag ceremonies in a way similar to the USA's "Pledge of Allegiance." I think Indonesia has one also.
The pledge was reworked in 1954 when "god" was added to fend off the "godless" communist enemy and it should be re-worked again to reflect our current plutocracy. Perhaps something like:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Empire of the United States of America, and to the global hegemony for which it stands, one plutocratic nation indivisible, with tyranny and injustice for just about all."
I agree with your FB post, it's quite true. I had an argument with a friend a couple of weeks ago about patriotism (Ireland), just because he was born here he seems to have a blind loyalty to a piece of land. I'm grateful for the men and women who won freedom from Britain so I could live a better life but in this country they fought the Brits only for later politicians to basically give the country to the EU. Ireland isn't really self governed any more but he just couldn't accept it.
Blind loyalty to anything is wrong. I love our culture and history as much as he does but I see that what our founding fathers, just like the U.S.A's, fought for has been tainted, bastardized so that big business can get bigger and self elected European politicians can protect the business agenda, not the peoples. After what happened with the Lisbon Treaty I don't even vote any more, this country is so bad now that not even the vote of the people counts and if they disagree with the EU they're
1. Thomas Paine, who provided the ideological impetus for the Revolution, was a vocal critic of Christianity.
2. The Pledge was originally composed by Bellamy in 1892, who happened to be a fervent Socialist, and despite being a Baptist Minister made no mention of god in either the pledge or his commentary.
3. The Supreme Court ruling precluding the Pledge occurred in 1943, before the addition of "under God", and involved Jehovah's Witnesses, not secularists.
FUCK THE US! I'm Native! I'd say... let this nation rot in hell so that we can start claiming the lands as our own! NATIVE PRIDE! Anyways..I would have responded by PWNING them with facts but jackasses like that love to censor because they don't really believe in freedom of speech because they are cunts and I hope they get skinned alive for blocking people
@managarm1349 For the most part I agree, but there's a difference between a patriot and and a nationalist. A patriot is someone who loves their country but can recognize when there are things wrong with it and tries to change it for the better, whereas a nationalist thinks their country is all perfect and believes it can do no wrong and doesn't accept the big problems it has and creates for the rest of the world.
I was an army brat but I still had issues with the pledge. I saw early on that it was a way to keep us committed to the country. First time I have ever heard someone else say it. Thanks
I loved the heavy dose of "couldn't care less" this time around, since last video had two hiccups.
I had a few posts like this as well, mostly on the "this country was founded on Christianity". I have to say I burned a few bridges with post wars, which ended with people deleting me. A few quotes and history lessons pissed off a few of family/friends, but ending with 1Peter 3:15, and Founding Father quotes, tipped them over the edge. I do thank you for some of that knowledge. Cheers.
First, I fucking LOVE this series and I'm impressed you thought of it first. Everyone should do this. Second, I'd respond with "hey, I know we used to be friends ten years ago, but the level of ignorance on my Facebook news feed from your shallow, redneck friends isn't even worth reading, so no hard feelings, but I'm dropping you off my friends list. If you want to have a legit conversation about this, I'm available for a pint or three. I wish you the best."
I'm not sure on the allegiance part pushing us towards possible dictatorship, although I will give you that yes giving up freedoms under the patriot act for a little safety is scary, let our troops go out and protect us its what those of us who served and are serving signed up to do. I swore to uphold and defend the constitution of the US, and if a pres. Became a dictator I would be on the peoples side. For the people by the people.
There are two things that eats me up with Facebook posts, one the fact people are offended just because the word God is on the Pledge. My first time when I read the Pledge, after 7 years, the first thing that came on my mind was that the word God in the Pledge was just a symbolic word use. It is not that United States is Christianity, heck if it was, Hell would have brought apon United States. My respond would be the similar to yours that homosexuals are not given equal rights.
The Pledge of Allegiance should be replace "to the flag" with "to the Constitution." If there was ever something worth pledging myself to, it is the ideals encapsulated by the Constitution of the United States of America.
The words in the Pledge itself indicate that the flag represents "the Republic." So in a sense you have a point. But maybe it would be better to just say it directly. For example, those who enlist in military service will swear an oath to the Constitution and not to any flag or Republic.
I find it funny those who understand indoctrination can be patriotic. The parallels to religion seems obvious. To be define by imaginary lines in the ground is sad. Just another way for the us vs them mentality to show its ugly head
I was taught in Boy scouts that "...one nation under god..." (no comma in my first hand book.) was to mean any belief in a spiritual or supernatural deity, or for any force greater then ourselves. I've always treated it like that as well, no associating it with any specific god. I do think that maybe returning it to it's original form would be a good move.
I also believe that the pledge is a promise to be better citizens, and that all of our missteps our us failing at that promise of equality.
as an atheist it is against the law to hold public office in quite a few states still,including my own of sc.and as you already stated the whole gay rights issue...justice and liberty they say? for all they say?...hmmm what about the millions of americans who have been convicted of a crime in the past,served there time and turned there lives around.who can't vote and can be legally discriminated against by employers.taxation without representation comes to mind.we are not a free society.
bryankorth 3 days ago
I'm Canadian, and I love my country and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I will say that Canadians in general are not very patriotic. We don't idolize our leaders, we make fun of them. Canadians are not flag wavers. We are proud of our country, but it's not a cult with us.
8698gil 2 months ago
man i'm so glad i live in australia. america is full of douche knuckles!
halflifeproductionz 3 months ago
The Pledge affirms the idea that everyone can pursue “liberty and justice,” not that they have it right now. I’m sure its words helped inspire many to do just that--insist on and gain more liberty and justice. I don’t say the Pledge, because I think it makes much more sense to have the populace recite the Preamble of the Constitution before school, meetings and events, so we remember why we created this nation. As others say the Pledge, I’ll recite the Preamble.
Cathmoytura 3 months ago
Agreed on this. The under god part could be changed to "of it's people" or something like that. I totally agree with the blind allegiance thing as well. It's a dangerous path to walk.
ThePowerfulPanda 3 months ago
Sadly our armed forces are christian based which is why most chaplains are christians, even the army song says "faith in god" its sick. The pledge having under god, fucks up the caydence.
SpecterWSA 3 months ago
As an atheist that serves in our armed forces I can say honestly that overly concerning ourselves with past faults is nihilistic. Our country has blood on its hands to be sure, however, nothing can change the past. We can't even truly make up for it. What was done was done and reparations are merely a gesture, not repayment. We need to as a nation instead work to remember past faults and not repeat them. That is the greatest way we can soothe the pain inflicted by past wrongs.
mcalsip 3 months ago
@mcalsip As an interesting side note, when a person enlists we swear on oath of enlistment. We promise to support and defend the constitution and obey the orders of the president and officers appointed over us. This also means that certain things are compulsory while serving to include saluting the flag during the anthem and when it passes in a parade. However, because of our oath it is optional to say the pledge with civilians, but the default position is to not do so.
mcalsip 3 months ago
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I believe that imaginary borders are a contrivance of a barbaric past that we must evolve out of in order to ensure the survival of our species. With that being said, I've composed a new "pledge"... I pledge allegiance to the people of all walks of humanity. And to the earth on which we live upon. One planet, irreplaceable. With freedom and abundance for all!
AquaticApe1 4 months ago
I don't think soldiers gave their lives for the preservation of "freedom" as you say in this video. Wars are instigated over acquisition of resources, with propaganda like "freedom" used to justify the elites' war games.
MrStillmans 4 months ago 5
@MrStillmans
I agree with to a certain extent, but keep in mind the section of video you're citing shows soldiers of the Revolutionary and Civil Wars. The Founding Fathers wanted freedom from England and the Civil War was fought largely to free an entire class of people. Modern-day wars might be based on other, more insidious factors, but that's not the statement I made. The foundation of this county is based on war for freedom and the liberty we enjoy today is the fruit of that sacrifice.
DiscoveringReligion 4 months ago 5
I vow to uphold and defend what is best about America, and to endeavor to change what it worst about America, so that my country of birth may achieve its full potential, and so that it may be a shining beacon to everyone else, around the world, now and for centuries to come.
TheWombat1138 4 months ago 3
the redneck voices offended me please remove this video
XXflapjaxXX 4 months ago
Excellent video, you made a lot of good points. I've actually seen this post on Facebook before, I responded by pointing out that the Pledge of Allegiance is still recited every morning and the American flag is still flown out front of just about every public school in this country. The post itself is a total fabrication. I ought to know, I'm a school teacher.
DickJohnsonRocks 4 months ago
I think it's funny how we can say "under god" and then "indivisible". That phrase divides us.
azbadfish 4 months ago
I love the vid buddy....i feel the same way
mrtruthfinder1975 4 months ago
Dude, there's not anyone on youtube that likes your videos more than I do. I didn't like this one so much though. While I agree with most everything you posted, I still love the flag. Not because I follow it blindly. We cant blame the flag for Indian genocide, slavery or the KKK. We can only blame our ignorance and religion was a big part of that ignorance. I love the flag for what it "could" represent. Unfortunately all you and I can do is wait for evolution to weed out the retards.
TheMassdistortion 4 months ago
Thank you DR! It needed to be said. You sure are in the right place in forward thinking I'm right here with you mate.
EDWARDKILE 4 months ago
I still don't think it makes any sense to be proud of your nationality. You had nothing to do with the place you were born, so what is there to be proud of exactly? The fact that you share the country with people who have actually accomplished great things? I find that odd.
Loliciousfuga 4 months ago
I wonder how many times Glenn Beck jacks off between takes.
k7leetha 4 months ago
I cant believe you compared us to the Natzies !
We have much better tanks and planes ! We have not put anyone in concentration camps since WW2 when it was en vogue .
torrid426 4 months ago
@torrid426 What about Guantanamo Bay?
Loliciousfuga 4 months ago
@Loliciousfuga
Those would be prisoners of war kinda war. Those people were viewed as a crediable threat to the USA. Either with intent to kill people or in supporting the people who intend to kill people. I dont think it was handled properly but it still was was not a concentration camp.
torrid426 4 months ago
Under God wasn't even added to the pledge until 1954 and was only done because of a misunderstanding of an add-lib in the Gettysburg Address.
downeyb 4 months ago in playlist More videos from DiscoveringReligion 2
@downeyb
Thank You!
TheMassdistortion 4 months ago
4 people that watched this are religious morons
gargantacortador 4 months ago
I like your response to the post, actually.. I honestly think my only response would be something like:
"You have the freedom to speak this pledge whenever you like. Luckily, you (and everyone else) also have the freedom to not speak it, whenever you like. And it's this freedom I'm fighting for, on both sides. I wouldn't want anyone to be forced to say anything they didn't believe in."
Well, either that, or unfriend the person...
TheAnMish 4 months ago
I've actually had this remark come up on my facebook news feed more than once. I always ignore it but it does irk me. I personally don't consider myself an "american" anymore because I don't support anything the government does. I consider myself an "earthling" and that's where it ends. I also find is kind of scary how obsessed most americans are with nationalism.
jestrrr101 4 months ago
It's amazes me how many people actually believe the U.S is a Christian Nation. Sarah Palin says it often. My bad Sarah Palin has zero credibility anyways.
imsayn77 4 months ago
I Pledge allegiance to the CONSTITUTION of the United States of America. And to the Republic, which it establishes. One nation with Liberty And Justice for those who can afford a good lawyer.
nanerrat 4 months ago 24
Are they saying the schools don't have the pledge anymore? In Texas (yeah, I know) the kids have it through middle school (and high school, I believe) and they even added a pledge to the Texas flag, complete with "under god." If they're saying that adults should have to say it every day, that's kinda stupid.
Yeah, yeah, I know. It's Texas.
tctheunbeliever 4 months ago
were did you get that map with the crimson omen in it ?
MrThaininja 4 months ago
@MrThaininja
I made it. :)
DiscoveringReligion 4 months ago 6
RE: If you are really interested in retaining the ways of the founding fathers, why not change the pledge to the way it was before the 50's? What could that possibly hurt?
TheOmegadusk 4 months ago
They need a damn dislike button on fb. People are so fucking ignorant.
brongarago 4 months ago
I don't use Facebook.
GreatG0dOm 4 months ago
Not a bad video but to be honest being proud or ashamed of anything beyond your own actions is ridiculous to me. I didn't save or kill anyone by choosing to be born a white American citizen. Actions are where people should be looking for one's true worth instead of one's color, nationality or religious affiliation.
theoxymoronfromtexas 4 months ago
I just find it incredible that they decided that the under god part should be inserted right before indivisible, thereby dividing the nation.
tdurran 4 months ago
Whenever i said the pledge as a kid, i took it to be a daily reminder of how my conduct should be, that i should be fair and just to all. though i apparently i might be the only one to look at it that way.
I look forward to the day when i can say the pledge and have it be true, that i can say " liberty and justice for all " and know it to be true.
Just because i am not overtly flag waving, that does not mean i don't love my country.
FattyMcFox 4 months ago
Last I heard, they still make kids recite the pledge.
Nagneto 4 months ago
I can't think of a single response that would be fitting. Honestly, I would have a whole bunch of responses that I'd want to give. I think, though, that I would most likely end up explaining that America wasn't founded as a christian nation, and I'd inform that one guy that we are kind of forced to use money, regardless of what's written on it. And yeah, I'd point out what all they're offended by, first and foremost the fact that they're offended about people being offended.
genobahamut1337 4 months ago
Un-subbed
DruzzillandRo 4 months ago
@DruzzillandRo Oh no! Someone un-subbed! What are you expecting? Do you think the guy will cry about it? Un-sub and shut up. Nobody cares if you stay or go.
genobahamut1337 4 months ago
I would have responded that "under God" was not in the pledge in the first place, that it was invented by a socialist pastor who would have included "under God" if he thought it should be there. Then add basically what you said about how it's a giant lie in the first place and just a loyalty oath that nobody should just blindly accept.
Mabuza14 4 months ago
Ive always found Americans obsession with their flag quite strange, Even when I was a kid watching Hulk Hogan on tv he enters the Areana with "I am a real American" theme song playing carrying a huge American flag, and wearing a small one as a bandanna. Why does he do that? who was questioning he was an American? Maybe he just doesnt want Donald Trump is on his case.
groovyengineer 4 months ago
Hypocricy is only evil that exists in the world.
there is or way to come co any conclusion if t least one of participants is hypocrite.
My response to such comments would be "What do you really want?"
deltaxcd 4 months ago
I always made fun of the pledge when I was a kid. Instead of putting my hand over my heart it would go under my armpit to make fart noises... well actually I could never make the noise so I would say stuff like "one nation under peanut butter" or something lol.
MatchCard 4 months ago
My problem with the pledge, beyond the god reference, is that it is a damned loyalty oath. If you were born in this country and are a loyal american, no oath is necessary. Anybody remember Joe McCarthy and his damned, ARE YOU NOW OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY crap. America is a free country and that means you're free to be a commie if you want. But commies were prosecuted by the FBI under McCarthy. It's not just exclusionary, it's just plain WRONG. Put it to bed.
TheDano1947 4 months ago
Being proud of one's country is as stupid as it is funny in a sense.
"I'm proud to be XYZ, because my people invented this and introduced that."
"And what part have you in all this?"
"Uh..."
I'm German and I'm not PROUD of it - I rather feel LUCKY about it. I could as well have been born and died in some hellhole of a failed state.
How can anyone be proud of anything he has not achieved himself? I have a master's degree and I'm proud of that because I saw it through while many others failed.
42317 4 months ago
@42317 Could NOT agree more.
yatter1 4 months ago
Great video. It actually changed my opinion. That's not an easy thing to do. Well done.
GeneticsGuy 4 months ago
Well done and well said, loved your video and couldn't agree more.
crazyworld05 4 months ago
how to end the "This country was founded on Christianity" bullshit: Treat of Tripoli; Drafted by George Washington, signed by John Adams - 1796-1797. In quote: "As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;...."
Bodywrecker 4 months ago
no tengo Ni patria Ni dios Ni rey... pero tengo corazon!
N0g0dzN0masterz 4 months ago
I would have replied by posting the original pledge of allegiance. They point out that people are offended by under god, and they are somehow wrong for being so, but anytime there is a billboard or promo that omits under god from the pledge, it's the ones who apparently "don't care" who are making a fuss about it.
rykoodasr 4 months ago
Nationalism or patriotism is only acceptable for conservatives who feel they are MORE American than those who are non-white, educated, and non-christian. No one ( in their eyes) may love this country as much as they do (while bashing this government).
Isn't it odd how they scream for freedom while endorsing a religion which is intolerant of it.
realoldguy1969 4 months ago
this country is fucked i really don't know how we can fix it is what i hate to say "beyond the point of no return" America is a an old building that stood for centuries but now is gonna fall this country it is a ticking time bomb trying to fix it would stall but leaving it alone is dangerous i mean you can't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers we need a government change and fast!!!! - that's probably the best chance now (in my opinion)
GeniusAtheist 4 months ago
Great video. I live in Georgia, which is Christian Taliban hell, so I can relate.
goosed1 4 months ago
under god is the most recent alteration to its original...
tewster 4 months ago
My first reaction wouldve been a more fact-based rebuttal. I wouldve went on there & stating how "under god" wasnt originally in the pledge. I would've stating how many of our founding fathers were not only non-Christians, but diest, atheists, & even ant-Christian. But that wouldve only been my first reaction... I wouldve then caught myself & realized that those people dont care about the actual history or equality for all people. They only care about what society bending to their preferences.
88Keyz101 4 months ago
Why anyone would pledge allegiance to a flag is beyond me. I agree that pledging to support and defend the constitution is a much better thing to do.
kshackleton 4 months ago
I would've posted: "Gods aren't real." hoping to elicit a reaction with which I could reply: "Oh, so you're offended? Perhaps YOU should leave the country, then?"
illuzion30 4 months ago
My thanks to DR, Faithcheck, Fishhead, Living Dinosaur and your other YT friends for inspiring me to be a free thinker. I am 51 years old, and have never felt better about my self than I do now, since I discovered you guys. Bravo, keep up the great work.
mmmorno1 4 months ago
When this nation was founded there was no national pledge, even up to and after the civil war that was no official oath or pledge. Many of these phrases that people love to pick up on had not been a part of the foundations of America. The Framers- or the Founding Fathers- never actually put in God We Trust on the money, or even wrote the pledge. It is sad that it took me this long to be able to realize this. I think we need to learn the history of the pledge before we are demaned to recite it.
ChA0sK1ttEn 4 months ago
The history of the pledge is interesting. The original pledge went something like this; "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all." The history of the pledge can be found on various sites like wikipedia and others. To boil it down "under God" was not added til 1954 a long 62 years after the first writing of the original pledge. I never actually learned about this until I got into college. (part 2)
ChA0sK1ttEn 4 months ago
The only problem I have with the Pledge of Allegiance is the part where is states that it is a "Republic for Richard Stans". Who is this Richard Stans, anyway? Was he one of the Founding Fathers?
comingatchu 4 months ago
@comingatchu There is no evidence for the existence of Richard Stans.
1marcelo 4 months ago
@comingatchu
If you think that's confusing, what is meant by "One nation under god invisible."?;)
lDrownded 4 months ago
I feel as offended by nationalism and patriotism as I am by religion. And no, I'm not an american.
breakaleg10 4 months ago
So this is going to be drawn out in a few posts here. One thing that most people don't bring up is that Francis Bellamy the author of the Pledge of Allegiance was a socialist. The roots of his socialism came from Christian Socialism. He was a leftist pastor whose theology actually lead to such this as Liberation Theology and Social Theology, all very left leaning liberal theologies. (all things that the aforementioned Glenn Beck has railed about). (part 1)
ChA0sK1ttEn 4 months ago
SPOT ON! Unfortunately, too much of your rational, reasonable, and correct response to The Pledge just goes right over the heads of far too many Americans who are blinded by their ideology and do not WANT to think for themselves.
FACT: "Under God" was added to The Pledge in the 1950's during a moment of national weakness in regards to separation of church and state. The Pledge today violates the 1st Amendments "Freedom of Religion" as it implies USA authorization of a particular religion.
brentj30 4 months ago
I have never once said the pledge. Even in school I just stood up and was silent for the 20 secs in take to finish saying it. I always found the pledge kind of weird, it's like something Nazi Germany does.
skeptictom818 4 months ago
@skeptictom818 As could be seen in the video, the pledge used to use a strikingly similar arm position to what the Nazis used.
Due to it being WAY too similar in basically every respect, they changed it to going over the heart so it superficially seems different.
gimmethegepgun 4 months ago
The flag is a symbol. If one pledges their allegiance, it should be to the nation or the values of that nation, not to the symbol of the nation. But that's not a big deal. I understand intent.
bb1televator is right re: the oxymoron of "One nation under god".
I would be proud to say the pledge of allegiance if not for the fact that, as an atheist, it makes me a liar. I'm furious that the Christian majority has polluted the official pledge to the country I love. I am an American too dammit!
Qillz 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I would say that "under God" wasn't added until the 50's and if you think that this is a nation founded under Christian Principal's you're wrong. The settlers came here seeking religious freedom and that very freedom they were looking for you are now trying to take away buy imposing your god on everyone else. Have a little compassion and realize everything isn't about you.
sfm073 4 months ago
most of our founding fathers were atheists.
mrsvinarich26 4 months ago
we could just swithch back to E. pluribus unum "out of many one" just as patriotic and not biased.
mrsvinarich26 4 months ago
I saw some "fat ignorant Americans" in Italy some years ago. They were really obnoxious and demanded they should be able to pay for the food with dollars, shouting loudly that if not for them everyone would be Nazis and the usual. So sometimes they do have passports! ;)
Holammer 4 months ago
What if I just pledged allegiance to the flagpole?
stevenweir76 4 months ago
The Pledge creates a religion out of the state. I wonder how all the good Christians who are so indignant about idol worship and false gods can sleep at night.
deepashtray 4 months ago
i am sick of this "if you dont like it leave" mentality. it seems to me that many of th people claiming to be patriotic are rejecting the true bedrocks we were founded on. this country was designed not to be static, that if the people didnt like something they could try an change it, not run away to some other country.
arithine 4 months ago
They're....oops
JosephW99 4 months ago
I am glad I bailed out of america. Europe is where it's at. Germany is a REAL christian nation, founded or formed by christians and more than half the ppl here don't believe in 'any' god. They too smart to be fooled like the rest of the western world....minus the states.
JosephW99 4 months ago
which episode of South Park were those clips from?
thefallenangel18 4 months ago
nice vid. thx.
seededfury 4 months ago
Flags are meaningless symbols. The Constitution, and your rights are what you should be proud of, or in support of.
@helltrackrider Anarchy doesn't mean liberty or justice either. It's just admitting that the big dog rules all. It's a bully's paradise. Government is not the enemy, the problem with government of the people, is that the people need to be more involved in their own governing. The reality is that as people are not involved, the government is more and more resembling anarchy
Cayvmann 4 months ago
"Liberty and Justice"...this cannot coexist with Government.
So long as there is a Government; there is NO Liberty...period.
Anarchy is the only system (or lack thereof a system) that is predicated on Liberty.
helltrackrider 4 months ago
EXCELLENT VIDEO!
tiamat1296 4 months ago
It's so nice when you finally hear someone talk about something that's been weighing on you for quite some time here. I agree with you on the big picture here. I'd be happy to pledge my allegiance to ideals or to certain people but not to a country that doesn't represent the ideals that it only pretends to stand for. I could even probably pledge my allegiance to the Constitution, but not to the undefined blob that is "America" today.
RealityFoundNet 4 months ago
Even when I was a Christian, I stopped saying the pledge in High School, because I recognized that the "liberty and justice for all" part was a lie. But I'm also opposed to the "one nation under God" part, because that part is unconstitutional. One thing I never got is what it means to pledge allegiance to a flag. A flag is an inanimate object. It's about as senseless as worshiping a golden calf.
fortheloveofwisdom 4 months ago
I've upset family members over the fact that I said that "under god" should be removed since it wasn't added in until the 1950's. That this country isn't a christian nation and that we should respect everybodys views.
lautz73 4 months ago
I would have mentioned that the pledge of allegiance didn't say "under god" in it until it was last changed in 1954.
zmasterdevil 4 months ago
"Pride should be something you achieve or attain on your own. Not for something that happens by accident of birth".
George Carlin.
PakistaniAtheist 4 months ago
Yes, that's exactly what the stereotype is, I'm not kidding. I always have trouble readjusting my ideas. I mean when I think america I really think obese and stupid. My next thought is, well they aren't ALL like that, they can't be, right ? And to some extent that's true, but it still feels like that :/ The problem is not that you are this proud, the problem is that your politicians and media are downright retarded. I'm sorry, there is no other way to put it.
ForYeensSake 4 months ago
This video makes me proud to be Canadian...but not too proud.
r2k85 4 months ago
Good Video. I'd prefer that we return to the original form of the pledge which is as follows: I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all. It's much more inclusive and was written by a Christian Socialist. You won't find that in your school's American history textbook. The current form of the pledge only promotes Christian-American Imperialism.
pard216 4 months ago
You responded a lot nicer than I would have.
TheHigherVoltage 4 months ago
As a Canadian I can recall a time when we used to swear an oath to Queen in school thankfully that practice ended in 89. As this country more to the right and becomes more conservative I find issues patriotism here as well the gov't here tried to change anthem to make it more politically correct however, they learned that majority of Canadians do not want God in the anthem they closed that discussion fast.
apple2018 4 months ago
Great entry in the DDOJ contest! And some of the other comments here are good ones, too! I can't think of any better ones. I hope The Faith Channel links to everyone's response to his contest.
awreslr2 4 months ago
I'd say, "We should say, 'One nation *over* God,'" not because I blasphemously think humans are above God (as an atheist, I respectfully don't believe the bronze-age rock-thrower exists), but because we all- Christians included- behave as though we are above God. C'mon Christians, stop coveting stuff and working on Sat/Sunday as if it's okay!
BigIdeaSeeker 4 months ago
You said "fucking"! You've been watching too many of my videos. Always nice to see a new DR in my sub box. Great comeback. I would probably have shot off a rant about "who's god?" in the heat of the moment. You were wise to wait, calm down and think about it. I've been here 10 years now, and the thing I find strange is how much the kind of American you portray here "loves" their country and yet how much they don't give a fuck about their fellow countrymen (No taxes! Socialized healthcare! etc).
TheLivingDinosaur 4 months ago 8
@TheLivingDinosaur
Thanks! I do tend to cuss when I get mad. :) It's true what you say about Americans loving their country but being indifferent to their countrymen. Everyone is up-in-arm about socialized healthcare, but you don't see the Tea Party attempting to topple the socialized police and fire departments or public school system. No, just on the issue that really matters, healthcare, is when the evil term "socialism" invoked and fears raised that America will go the way of Nazi Germany.
DiscoveringReligion 4 months ago 4
@DiscoveringReligion
Imho, that's exactly the kind of mind-set people find contradictory outside the US. At least in Germany, I think, the pledge of allegiance to a flag, as a nationalist symbol, and flag waving on every occasion, is what people immediately connect to the kind of exaggerated nationalism the US liberated us from decades ago, whereas socialized healthcare is considered a perfectly normal topic of a democratic country, where the majority of people really participates in politics.
IsaakHunt 4 months ago
@IsaakHunt
Still, both types of nationalism are a little bit different, though. You have to keep in mind, that Nazi Germanys swastika-flag was the flag of the national-socialist movement, not the 'Reich'. That's a fact, a lot of Germans don't even recognize.
Apart from that, any kind of collectivism on a national scale has a nationalist, but also socialist, connotation in both our countries, I think, as both national-socialism and communism overemphasized collective thinking.
IsaakHunt 4 months ago
The flag reminds me of Americans willing to sacrifice their freedom for a symbol of freedom. Texas made a law that you can't burn the flag. The supreme court said the law was unconstitutional. Immediately our president said we should make a national law that banned burning of the flag. wtf? The flag is a SYMBOL of our freedom and not more important than our freedom. So now the flag reminds me of stupid Americans who don't deserve their freedom.
WarmWeatherGuy 4 months ago
Lol. I've had a number of Facebook friends post the same thing, usually with just "UNDER GOD" in caps.
PJDolan1 4 months ago
I think the fact that it was added in the 50s under the cloud of fear of godless communism and not at the foundation of our country with our deist forefathers is highly relevant.
Roenazarrek 4 months ago
I've lost friends, friends I'd had for many years, because I wouldn't support those stupid face book claims like this one.
Moontanman 4 months ago
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." - Albert Einstein
ENGLISHBL0KE 4 months ago 4
gears of war skull :D
undergroundboy 4 months ago
I would've said the same as you, but probobly add "FYI; I'm an Atheist and I'm not offended by the pledge. In fact, I want Liberty and Justice for ALL, so it seems I am more american than those yes on 8 people!"
I'm not American of course, but I certainly am more than the shit stains who fit the stereotype :P.
Nightmare060 4 months ago
I have two issues with you on this;
1) "your PROUD to be an American"? why? it takes nothing to be an one, except being born. I could understand if you proud of those that made it what it is today.
2) you "love America" I feel saying you love a country again is twisted, in the same terms that the religious call each other brothers. - its emotive.
marcarmstrong88 4 months ago 5
@marcarmstrong88 ... You talk about blindly following actions such as pledging allegiance to a flag however have you thought about why you are using these kind of terms, when talking about a country. From what I have seen I only hear this rhetoric in the "west" from Americans.
marcarmstrong88 4 months ago
@marcarmstrong88
I'm proud because it's the country of my birth and I have great affection for its people. Just the same, I am proud to be half Iranian and I carry on the traditions of father's culture as well. I cook Persian food all the time and I am still trying to learn to speak Farsi. I love America because it is unique and has many opportunities. I appreciate living here very much, especially since I've traveled the world several times and realize how different opportunities are elsewhere.
DiscoveringReligion 4 months ago 9
@DiscoveringReligion Yep I figured that much, but all I'm pointing out is Americans are constantly proclaiming the love for the country, as if anyone is doubting. But why use such an evocative term? I don't think its a term that spawned spontaneously from YOU, rather its become a chant.
And since I'm not born in American should I be ashamed? or maybe just proud to be born as a human?
Its not just you but many Americans SOUND like Nationalist. and that's not to dissimilar to the religious.
marcarmstrong88 4 months ago
@marcarmstrong88 //"your PROUD to be an American"? why?//
Because america allows it's citizens to own guns, while many nations do not. America has the separation of church and state, while many nations do not. America guarantees a constitutional right to free speech, free expression, etc., while many nations do not.
Drgamedood 4 months ago in playlist More videos from DiscoveringReligion
@Drgamedood Well I've seen on many occasions how America does not uphold the any of what you said was "guaranteed". But anyway you tend to be proud of some ones actions, not your self because of others actions. When 2 babies are born and put side by side, one from America and one not, do you look at on more proudly? As an American that sits on my ass and do not all my life can I still be proud to be an American?
P.S. you can keep your guns and all the deaths that comes with it.
marcarmstrong88 4 months ago
@marcarmstrong88 You look at the bad, and use that as a basis for your hatred of america. While I look at the good, and use that as a basis for love of america. Sure, america's not perfect, but no country is.
Drgamedood 4 months ago
@Drgamedood OK you have moved well off topic now. Nothing you just said had anything to do with what I just or had done, previously.
marcarmstrong88 4 months ago
The "Pledge" was written when a lot of European immigrants were coming into this country ( many of them Catholics whom the protestants feared would become a political force) The pledge was designed to make sure that the children of these immigrants would be loyal to the United States and not the countries of their parents. We don't allow children to enter into contracts until they are 18. It is ridiculous to force children to recite a pledge they do not understand. Wait until they are 18.
KasparHauser6 4 months ago
Indivisible - "Incapable of undergoing division", god - "A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions" So you non - religious, polythestic, nature worshipers ect are not real Americans, yes that's completely indivisible >>
9CrystalDragon2 4 months ago
Agreed man! not an american but lived there!
YOU Guys have good things in your country-but never say you are perfect it leads to no progress and brings regress.
sagabhcrew 4 months ago
I disagree with you. Not on your major points, by the way, simply with how you view the pledge. I am a patriotic American and a veteran. The way I view the pledge and the flag as ideals more than what is real. We as a country have done terrible things that we cannot forget. We are still doing terrible things to, as pointed out, homosexuals amongst others.
The government changes, presidents, congressmen, and others. I have loyalty to the flag for the ideals I feel it represents.
Good video.
azdvldog 4 months ago
@azdvldog
Being a veteran I am sure you have a much different perspective and I cannot pretended to empathize with the experiences you've had. I believe nationalism and pride on one's nation is good to a certain point, but when it is a blind, unquestioning loyalty, where anything the countries does is accepted by its people, then that can be very dangerous! Elected gov officials change, but the best interests of its people are hardly top priority for many of them, especially in org like the CIA.
DiscoveringReligion 4 months ago 9
@DiscoveringReligion
No words have any more meaning than we give them. The Pledge (well, any pledge) should be voluntary. Requiring the Pledge is nationalism, but voluntarily taking the Pledge (and meaning it) is patriotic. Taking the Pledge means the taker is dedicating themselves to righting those wrongs you mentioned. There is nothing wrong with an agreed upon unified message. "Under God" was added by Congress 62 years after the Pledge was written. It should be returned to its original form
manoric82 4 months ago
@DiscoveringReligion I too am a veteran, and I got in a big argument in the military for admitting that I think people are more important than a flag. It was a terrible experience, you'd think I was goose-stepping shouting "hail Hitler!" The flag is a cloth, but the people who died for our freedom are real, and deserve to be honored. So are the people who live in this country, as well as others. The flag should never be placed above any human life.
rykoodasr 4 months ago
@rykoodasr That being said, the Pledge of Allegiance violates our right to dissent. As ironic as it may sound, those who died for our freedom also died for the freedom to disagree with our government. Forcing any part of the pledge on people dishonors the soldiers who fought for America.
rykoodasr 4 months ago
I'm with george carlin, when I say I find patriottism absurd, especially when people say they're proud to be (insert country here). So you're proud to be born and/or raised in a country without having had any control in the matter whatsoever? You're going to defend your country just because you're born in it? That's not patriottism, that's arrogance, saying the country is lucky to have you to defend it. If your country was so great, it wouldn't need you to defend it or praise it.
viridismonasteriense 4 months ago
I rarely rate any videos about politics vs religion but I truly like this video.
Humanity0destroyer 4 months ago
Apart from the "under God part, I have nothing bad to say about the pledge of allegiance. Actually, it may help immigrant children to integrate better and feel American like everyone else. In western Europe we have huge problems with immigrant kids who don't want to integrate. Such a pledge could have a positive effect. Also, I don't believe it's remotely comparable to nazism considering "Republic, liberty, justice" words which means it's an allegiance to the free USA, not a dictatorship.
Wotanraven 4 months ago
@Wotanraven
yea in a way I don't see a problem with it, and also in the US students still do the pledge every morning, and they aren't forced to do it. They are allowed to be respectful, and allow others to do so if they so choose. Trust me this is what conservatives are getting up in arms about they just want pure conformity. And that having the choice to say it or not is a very American value. So in a way you are right this helps immigrants integrate easily. but US is use to immigrants
lordblazer 4 months ago
excellent video, it reminds me of the narrative of the life of Fredrick Douglas, a book I think every american should read. take care and thanks kindly for sharing these videos, cheers from san diego
jeremyshambles 4 months ago in playlist 4-3-11
I'm from Canada but when I've gone down to the Southern parts of the US I find the extreme blind patriotism disturbing; not because they love their country but I find being prideful for where they were born instead of your personal accomplishments to be incredibly foolishly egocentric, sort of like "racial pride"
ftr I do not lump all Americas, or even most, into this mindset.
LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 4 months ago
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn
lol I live in oklahoma right now, my dad in Atlanta. Anyway dude. I will have to say that yea its pretty frightful, but luckily not a lot of people are like the stereotypes in the cities in the south, but rural areas are very much conformist, and if you don't agree 100% they pretty much call you the odd ball. I don't see how ppl live in rural areas now. Anyway fun fact: Oklahomans refer to soda as pop. Yes we call it pop. just like Canadians. I don't know why.
lordblazer 4 months ago
i always never understood why Americans pledge to the flag and are so serious about it., and if they didn't do it they are "un-American"
i mean, wtf?
theUKatheist 4 months ago
The Philippines have something like a "pledge," The Panatang Makabayan ("Patriot's Oath") is used in flag ceremonies in a way similar to the USA's "Pledge of Allegiance." I think Indonesia has one also.
zarkoff45 4 months ago
"This country was based on Christianity."
I have to agree with this. This country was founded on theft, murder, and slavery- all very Christian values.
1125899906842620 4 months ago 36
@1125899906842620 How do you remember your user name? o.o
dismo77 4 months ago
huge balls for posting this video and speaking your mind.
please keep updating your channel
Zgembo1223 4 months ago 2
The pledge was reworked in 1954 when "god" was added to fend off the "godless" communist enemy and it should be re-worked again to reflect our current plutocracy. Perhaps something like:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Empire of the United States of America, and to the global hegemony for which it stands, one plutocratic nation indivisible, with tyranny and injustice for just about all."
0gods 4 months ago
Very well done, my friend! And thank you for the plug :-)
TheFaithCheck 4 months ago
Your comparison to the Nazi movement is strengthened by the use of the Bellamy Salute until the early 40s.
duffry 4 months ago
I agree with your FB post, it's quite true. I had an argument with a friend a couple of weeks ago about patriotism (Ireland), just because he was born here he seems to have a blind loyalty to a piece of land. I'm grateful for the men and women who won freedom from Britain so I could live a better life but in this country they fought the Brits only for later politicians to basically give the country to the EU. Ireland isn't really self governed any more but he just couldn't accept it.
Pazma1 4 months ago
Blind loyalty to anything is wrong. I love our culture and history as much as he does but I see that what our founding fathers, just like the U.S.A's, fought for has been tainted, bastardized so that big business can get bigger and self elected European politicians can protect the business agenda, not the peoples. After what happened with the Lisbon Treaty I don't even vote any more, this country is so bad now that not even the vote of the people counts and if they disagree with the EU they're
Pazma1 4 months ago
forced to vote again. What my ancestors died for has all been in vain. Sad but true.
Pazma1 4 months ago
This issue is replete with irony.
1. Thomas Paine, who provided the ideological impetus for the Revolution, was a vocal critic of Christianity.
2. The Pledge was originally composed by Bellamy in 1892, who happened to be a fervent Socialist, and despite being a Baptist Minister made no mention of god in either the pledge or his commentary.
3. The Supreme Court ruling precluding the Pledge occurred in 1943, before the addition of "under God", and involved Jehovah's Witnesses, not secularists.
DorakoftheHillPeople 4 months ago
"One nation, indivisible."
As circa anno 1953.
Then wait for the rage posts.
TheWeiWuWei 4 months ago
5:53 Is that the Gears of War logo in my country?
waltonky 4 months ago
FUCK THE US! I'm Native! I'd say... let this nation rot in hell so that we can start claiming the lands as our own! NATIVE PRIDE! Anyways..I would have responded by PWNING them with facts but jackasses like that love to censor because they don't really believe in freedom of speech because they are cunts and I hope they get skinned alive for blocking people
NeCacaluXuxultic 4 months ago
i hate patriotism / nationalism. a dumb concept for dumb people
managarm1349 4 months ago 3
@managarm1349 For the most part I agree, but there's a difference between a patriot and and a nationalist. A patriot is someone who loves their country but can recognize when there are things wrong with it and tries to change it for the better, whereas a nationalist thinks their country is all perfect and believes it can do no wrong and doesn't accept the big problems it has and creates for the rest of the world.
ChrisTheAspergerGuy 4 months ago
I was an army brat but I still had issues with the pledge. I saw early on that it was a way to keep us committed to the country. First time I have ever heard someone else say it. Thanks
Hobagification 4 months ago
I loved the heavy dose of "couldn't care less" this time around, since last video had two hiccups.
I had a few posts like this as well, mostly on the "this country was founded on Christianity". I have to say I burned a few bridges with post wars, which ended with people deleting me. A few quotes and history lessons pissed off a few of family/friends, but ending with 1Peter 3:15, and Founding Father quotes, tipped them over the edge. I do thank you for some of that knowledge. Cheers.
hp4e 4 months ago
First, I fucking LOVE this series and I'm impressed you thought of it first. Everyone should do this. Second, I'd respond with "hey, I know we used to be friends ten years ago, but the level of ignorance on my Facebook news feed from your shallow, redneck friends isn't even worth reading, so no hard feelings, but I'm dropping you off my friends list. If you want to have a legit conversation about this, I'm available for a pint or three. I wish you the best."
mediadrone01 4 months ago
I wouldn't have been able to post as well thought at and to the core of the argument as well as you did....
Your question disarmed their argument in handful of words. Well done.
SecularMentat 4 months ago
I'm not sure on the allegiance part pushing us towards possible dictatorship, although I will give you that yes giving up freedoms under the patriot act for a little safety is scary, let our troops go out and protect us its what those of us who served and are serving signed up to do. I swore to uphold and defend the constitution of the US, and if a pres. Became a dictator I would be on the peoples side. For the people by the people.
wakcedout 4 months ago
There are two things that eats me up with Facebook posts, one the fact people are offended just because the word God is on the Pledge. My first time when I read the Pledge, after 7 years, the first thing that came on my mind was that the word God in the Pledge was just a symbolic word use. It is not that United States is Christianity, heck if it was, Hell would have brought apon United States. My respond would be the similar to yours that homosexuals are not given equal rights.
XxIcyMizuxX 4 months ago
one of your best videos so far
mazdaplz 4 months ago
The Pledge of Allegiance should be replace "to the flag" with "to the Constitution." If there was ever something worth pledging myself to, it is the ideals encapsulated by the Constitution of the United States of America.
AntiCitizenX 4 months ago
@AntiCitizenX
Eh, I think the Flag is a personification of the country and it's laws in general.
Mectrixctic 4 months ago
@Mectrixctic
The words in the Pledge itself indicate that the flag represents "the Republic." So in a sense you have a point. But maybe it would be better to just say it directly. For example, those who enlist in military service will swear an oath to the Constitution and not to any flag or Republic.
AntiCitizenX 4 months ago
I find it funny those who understand indoctrination can be patriotic. The parallels to religion seems obvious. To be define by imaginary lines in the ground is sad. Just another way for the us vs them mentality to show its ugly head
moety2 4 months ago
I was taught in Boy scouts that "...one nation under god..." (no comma in my first hand book.) was to mean any belief in a spiritual or supernatural deity, or for any force greater then ourselves. I've always treated it like that as well, no associating it with any specific god. I do think that maybe returning it to it's original form would be a good move.
I also believe that the pledge is a promise to be better citizens, and that all of our missteps our us failing at that promise of equality.
Dakota2063 4 months ago
The Westboro Baptist Church is actually correct in its observation that Americans worship their flag, not so much the gawd described in the Bible.
ParaParagon 4 months ago