VIR Crash 2009 involving Jack Hall (black vette going slowly)

[gpcirillo]

What a shame. He's entitled to the racing line, but I cannot imagine what would inspire him to hit the brakes. Prime directive is to behave predictably.

[wtknght1]

It's just him. We never really could figure out why he'd just go drive around and not at least push the car a little...but for several years, that's all he did. The car itself was fine...I checked it over personally at a Roebling event. I guess he just wanted to say that he raced a Corvette. I think his fastest lap in the VIR race was a 2:17, while Johnny and I were doing 2:01s!  Very irritating...and expensive.

[0966534]

@wtknght1 you checked halls car over or your car?



[Nastypsychoboy]

What a dumbass in the braking Vette, shouldnt be on a track

[wtknght1]

I haven't seen or heard from him. I sure hope not!!!! Man, that dude was clueless on the track!

Glad to see you (and a few others) that understand you can't just jerk the car left or right when the car is at the limit...and especially not after cresting a hill! That was my 2d big wreck in 11 years racing...neither were my fault thankfully.

[itr0000]

So, two years later, is Hall still "racing?" I agree completely that someone in a C5 shouldn't be racing if they're running 2:17s. Having gotten hairy at the top of the hill there myself, I would never try to yank the car to the left or right to avoid someone doing something like that.

[wtknght1]

No, there's no wing on my car. It's just a T1 car similar to his (C5 vs C6). Jack is always 10-20 seconds per lap slower than the top T1 guys, and is basically just out there joyriding. Hopefully he will not return to T1 as he could have seriously hurt someone with his boneheaded move.

[0966534]

@wtknght1 he cant do t1 cause i have his car.

[wtknght1]

@0966534 I checked over Hall's car years ago at Roebling. I'm glad you have his car...so he's not racing it!! :) Good luck...hope to see you on track somewhere.

cwi

[AntDX316]

also the possibility that he cannot see what is on the otherside of the crest and assumes there is a car there and slowed down and/or he looked in the mirror of you coming so fast he didn't know what to do and just braked

[AntDX316]

do u have a Wing on your car? I assume the reason why he brakes before the crest of the road is because his wheels won't slow the car down cause he will be in the air which will cause him to miss the corner

[AntDX316]

lesson here is to stay away from the invisible racing line if your car is significantly slower

[jhonatan1742]

the guy in front of the Corvette and an idiot, how can he do that was slow and quickly changed his line, he slowed at the same time in a curve where the pilot has extreme difficulty controlling the car, he must be very new at this or and very clueless. what was with the camera did not even do that unless brake and see what happened, that's unfortunate, the front could have taken a life with such irresponsibility.

[wtknght1]

Nope...not for wheel to wheel racing! Some insurance companies will cover DE events...but not all.

[gr4381582]

does insurance cover this type of thing?

[abrahao777]

douche!

[DriftwiseS15]

Hey, maybe Jack ran a 2:16 after the big bump you gave him! Ha! Just kidding bud.

[botch13]

I watch more events at VIR than I partake in. The first time I ever crapped my pants in an HPDE was on that same turn, taking it at South course speeds one day, and then coming up on it on the Grand course the next day. That said, not knowing either of you, the car in front was definitely at fault here. More as a fan than a driver, I can't understand what his train of thought must have been.

[Deathykins]

While the line he took there maybe wasn't the line he should have taken, it seems like a simple enough mistake. It's the part where he stood on the brakes that seems like the deciding factor to me. It looked like if he had just kept his speed up, even if he was in the "wrong" line, then it would have given the driver time to react and adjust accordingly.

Making a line mistake while you are nervous about cars approaching quickly is forgivable. Braking too much in an incorrect place, not so much.

[robweenerpi]

@Deathykins If you are at all 'nervous' about race pace traffic then you should not possess a racing license. A 2:17 at VIR is pathetic in a car like that, extremely pathetic. He was on the wrong line. Proper line is to stay drivers right and setup for the brake zone and turn in for the fast left hander 'south bend'.

[68ray]

Scary to think that guys like that are allowed on track during competition. Even most HPDE drivers know to hold your line when being overtaken. You can bet I'll be checking the registration sheet for the name Jack Hall when I'm at VIR next month with NASA.

[rayfl502]

I have watched this thing over and over again and perhaps if he had not hit brakes you may have one. But perhaps had you slowed earlier made yourself more room to the right you might have mised him. He was not out of control so this is a hard one.

[wtknght1]

If you've ever driven VIR, you'd know that turn 9 goes up and over a small rise. I was at the limit there and couldn't turn much. I did a little, but that was all I could do. Plus, considering the fact that he should have stayed to the right, I anticipated what he SHOULD have done and early apexed 9 so I'd have a straighter line entering 10 (on the left)...making the pass easier. The point of all this is that he should have STAYED ON LINE. That's the racing rule.

[nitish21]

@wtknght1

im no racing driver so i cant really say much but if i was about to rear end another driver i would just pull my car off the track to the right onto the grass.

[wtknght1]

@nitish21 1. I had no idea I was about to rear end him. I assumed he would do the correct thing and stay on the racing line...and certainly not slam on his brakes.

2. If you're not "at the limit", then it's easy to just "pull your car off the track to the right onto the grass." However, once you do some racing, you'll realize that racing is all about pushing the car (and yourself) to the limits. Any sudden move there on my part would have meant a spin and worse wreck.

[nitish21]

@wtknght1

Yea ure right I see what ur saying...well good thing no one was hurt

[coolstorydude]

I realized that by the time the vette hit his brakes you were already off the throttle but you didnt do a dam thing to move to the right or use your brakes.

Seems like you thought he would let off his breaks, but by the time you hit his bumper you realized you should have turn the steering wheel just a LITTLE bit to the right to avoid that. Thats when you started pointing fingers.

[VTGDoubleVanosATTESA]

@coolstorydude both points u made are incorrect! From your comment i know for a fact u have never raced at VIR or driven a race car at any track for that matter.

Please stay off all tracks or you will force pros to crash.

[bob12312357]

@coolstorydude

When your at 100% of that little pie that is cornering,braking,and acceleration where do you get that extra 15% from to to cut that turn inside a little more? As for hitting the brakes, lift throtle oversteer and departing the track sideways into a wall at 100+mph are a promise. Jave u ever driven a car to it's limits and flirted with them for 20 minutes at a time on a closed course?

[xp3rth4x0r]

why did that guy in the slow corvette brake.. idiot lol

[JDMGTP]

that was in no way at all your fault...........idiot slams on his brakes!!

[wtknght1]

There's no doubt he was trying to move out of the way and did it incorrectly. The rule goes that the slower car should stay ON LINE and the faster car will move off line to go around. Considering in the lap previous to this one, the Camaro did what he was supposed to do (and stayed on line), I assumed that Jack would do the same. I intentionally kept my speed up, early apexed, and anticipated my pass to the inside of the next turn. He unexpectedly moved off line and slammed on his brakes.

[RandomTask008]

Did you ever geat a reason why he braked? Lifting on those uphill s's is a great way to lose the rear and find the wall.

[RandomTask008]

@RandomTask008  Honestly - It looks like he was trying to give you the line into the next turn and you were running really hot into those turns.

[1maddoggs]

Right or wrong it seemed pretty clear to me that he was trying to get out of your way and off the racing line for you. He already was way over to the left when you crested the hill. Though he shouldn't have hit his brakes, you were barreling right through the middle. There was NO room on either side for him to have avoided you. He was obviously ceding the racing line to you. If you had kept to your right to set up for the next turn there'd have been no crash. Patience-and you'd have won.

[1maddoggs]

@1maddoggs I do stand corrected to myself. You were right that he should have maintained the racing line, though I think he was trying to do the right thing in the wrong way. Your responsibility though was to realize how careful you'd have to be around him. You already knew that you could not depend on his judgment or actions. Too bad, you were "right" but that shouldn't have superseded your being cautious around him. And yes, he didn't belong there, a danger to himself and others.

[cmnsense]

That first corvette? What the hell was he doing stopping in the middle of the track? There were no cars in front... he was obviously day dreaming or stopping to talk with someone in the hotel next to the track. LOL. Maybe he say a woman undressing? LOL - DUH

[94STANG562]

the vette that got hit should of taken his ass to cuise by the beaCH NOT AT A FUCKING RACE TRACK BUT THE OTHER GUY DRIVING THE VETTE SHOULD ALWAYS LOOK AHEAD NOT WATS INFRONT OF U LOOK AHEAD!!!!!!

THATS THE MAIN RULE WHEN RACING AT A TRACK

[douafreedomgtmuaytha]

this why you buy vette..... fucker

[ThaSupraMan]

shitty corvette driver

[wtknght1]

Why not...it's not top secret info. And quite honestly, I want everyone who gets on track with this moron to know who he is, where he is and watch out for his actions...'cause he's gonna end up killing somebody. He's out on a Sunday drive while the rest of us are racing. He shouldn't be out there. If you aren't going to race, then go do an HPDE or your own track day.

[schumiisking]

i feel for you man, that sucked ass.

i presume you guys need a race license tho before you can race on track tho?? over here you have to set a minimum lap time to get your race license so youre not a slow danger to other cars.

[nezy37]

So the guy can't drive, do you really have to call him out by name on YOutube?

[niamin]

he could turn right , there was time :)

[WestonP22]

That sucks, but like most on track incidents, you can't blame either driver 100%, and hindsight tends to be 20/20. I bet this is a case where both drivers place the blame on each other. Sunday drivers can definitely create some problems, but that's an issue with every club and every type of racing that a person can buy their way into. Try to make it more exclusive and the club can't really survive. It sounds like it was already known that this guy is someone to be cautious around.

[metalslaw]

Sure it's the faster cars responsibility to make a clean pass.

But it's always the slower cars responsibility to maintain the racing line as fast as they can _til the faster car makes it obvious in your mirrors which side he will pass on_.

As soon as the faster car picks an obvious overtaking line, not in line with you, you can slow down.

In this case, the slower car slowed down on the racing line.... a big no-no.

[redhot916spd]

you were hauling

[alexserra11]

its de corvette's fault. y the hell did he break dat much in dat place.

[RTS182PEDI]

Well, actually, the car being passed has the responsibility of holding his line, not to make room for someone behind him. Who knows if that was his line? Or if he got loose and braked? it is not his responsibility to look in his rearview for someone, which is why it was your responsibility to pass safely. I think youre both at fault, it was an unfortunate accident. Shit happens sometimes...

[wtknght1]

Actually I (driving the white Corvette) wanted to kick his (Jack Hall driving the black C5) ass for that little stunt.

And yes, I realize it's the passing car's responsibility to pass safely, but it's also the car being passed' responsibility to drive safe and give racing room. The stewards of the meet recognized his errors and penalized him (the C5 - Jack Hall).

Once you start racing, you'll realize what he did was idiotic...and very dangerous.

[ActionJeans5000]

Nah man, you're completely in the right; you were going to wait to pass him, because of the distance you had coming into the esses, and fell into the normal racing line, but what in the hell did he think about slamming on his brakes like that?

My Mom drives better, and she's 61. You can tell Jack I said so : )

[RTS182PEDI]

While it was a bonehead move, its always the passing cars job to get safely around the car they are passing.

[skyman95946]

Sorry that your could brake in time; I bet that guy wanted to kick your ass. Anyway was that a corvette you were in or a comaro?

[TrackMonkey327]

Nevermind, I just realized it's a 'vette!

[TrackMonkey327]

Is the camera car a Subaru WRX/STI? How much damage to the front end? I'm just curious as there seems to be a lot of expensive parts up fron (e.g., intercooler, STI hood, sealed headlights, etc.). Anyway, best of luck with the repair. You were doing some good driving there!

[wtknght1]

Actually Hall is the bonehead driving the black and yellow car...and was at fault.

For those who don't race and have never been to VIR, the proper thing to do is to maintain your line and let the passing car (me in this case) move off line to pass. Jack Hall moved from the normal line into the "passing area" and then slammed on his brakes. If you don't know, the proper line to enter the next turn is on the right side of the track. He was reprimanded .....for his actions.

[zYzmrZIzYz]

sucks for you man.

I really did NOT see why he had to hit the brake.

[chrisrhere]

anyone that thinks this is Halls fault has never driven a "race car" Hall was doing every bit of 80mph and to have an inexperienced driver do what he did infront of him.. from halls point it was completely unavoidable. hall did the right thing and aimed at a glance off point so he did not kill him and the guy in front. good save for what its worth.

[snaedwiev]

At 49 seconds, watch the rear view mirror reflection ... it looks like the driver looks down at something in the center of the dash area. (gauge or shifter?) just as the lead car hits it's brakes, and then the driver looks up a split second before the impact.

But only the driver knows for sure what happened.

[wtknght1]

I"m not looking down...I'm trying to keep my head from going left. I'm hitting about 1.6 Gs there and have to "lean" my head over a bit to accommodate for the forces.

[meanmitsu]

Looks to me like the guy in front who was just coming out of the right hand turn let his car drift out to the left side of the track and so did you. You were the overtaking car and it's your responsibility to ensure you make a clean pass, not the guy in fronts fault.

[eschantra]

How is it not Hall's fault? Watch the first pass again. Never mind that you learn at your first HPDE not to go off line when being overtaken, but he also slammed on his brakes in the middle of a turn - which you also learn not to do at your first HPDE.

[Canimakeit]

Noway dude, id be peed off. I would have beat the brakes off that Hall dude, absoLUTELY no excuse for that.

None, no matter what he says there is no excuse for that crap.

Dude, seriously?

[jamesnwilson1982]

Brake Check!

[AnonEspana]

wow. shame. at least you weren't hurt.

[rmachucaa]

Aww man, i've had that happen to me too... In IRacing :P. Thanks for the vid.

[mybludrunsorange]

Must have been a piss ant crossing the road in front of him.