God has not been adding ANYTHING to his word EVER. It is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending.
He is trying to explain the Holy Spirit, without having received the Holy Spirit. How can the blind lead the blind. Unknown tongues, Rom 8:26-28, 1 Cor 14, is given to you for speaking to God. Without using your intellect. You are praying in the spirit. Not with the understanding, because your understanding is unfruitful, when you are praying in the Spirit.
There is no timeline where tongues, knowledge and prophecy will cease before Jesus returns.
He says that, "the bible cannot be added on to today". But you can not take away anything from the bible either, i.e. tongues. Because God will take away from you, read book of Revelation.
He is saying that the Bible has been incomplete, but that it is now complete.
All the gifts will cease only when we see Jesus face to face. Not before
On the video he is saying that Paul reached a state of maturity and said, "he was putting away the childish gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge", where he no longer was praying in tongues. But Paul said, that I speak in tongues more than you all. The bible never said, that it is childish to speak in tongues. Why did then go around and laying his hands on people, and as they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit, they started to speak in other tongues.
By your reasoning, God's Word was at some point imperfect or incomplete. God is perfect and complete. His Word is perfect and revealed perfectly at any given point in time. How can you deny what the Scriptures say about manifestations of the holy spirit? We are in the church age. All the things that the apostles did are still available to believers today through the power of the holy spirit which you receive when you are born-again.
@Hoogz20 Hello there. You have misunderstood what was said. The text says that prophecy and knowledge were 'in part' not imperfect. The Bible was 'in part', incomplete, when 1 Corinthians was written as many more letters had yet to be written. The word Greek word translated 'perfect' does not refer to the perfection of God or such but is better translated as incomplete. In other parts of the Bible is it translated as mature. God bless, Mick
@christianissues I think you need to use more verses on the topic before you can come to the conclusions that you have. The devil wants to stop believers from manifesting the holy spirit because it takes away the power of God. That's why we see so few people actually using it. There are counterfeits of the holy spirit but they are easily discernable. I suggest you reconsider your position. You don't want to mislead people if you're wrong. Can we discuss this scripturally in a private message?
@Hoogz20 Hello there. My email is leeandmick@gmail.com if you want to contact me there to discuss tongues. I know one thing for sure, if you can refute the first two minutes of this video then you will have my attention. God bless, Mick
@bullawaya Yes, tongues were known languages. And, as you said, no one spoke in tongues of angels. Paul was using exaggerated language, in 1 Cor. 13:1-3, to show that love was greater than any gift or deed. God bless, Mick
But how then how can James address his listeners to do what the "perfect law" (according to you is the complete Bible) says when during his time there was no complete Bible yet? In fact, James was the first NT book that was written.
@edgartc17 Hello again. Tell me, what is the perfect law of James 1:25 if it is not the 'word' mentioned in vs.22-23? What other 'word' are we to listen to and follow? What other 'word' is like a mirror to us (to our soul)? The OT was perfect as is the NT. All of God's word is perfect and brings freedom. I think you need to refute the first two or three of minutes of the video before wrestling with these verses. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Hi. If the OT is "perfect" when did it "come"? 1 Cor. 13:10 talks about "when the perfect comes". So what exactly the "perfect" thing you are talking about here? Is it the Word of God as perfect (which I do agree) or the completion of the Canon? If it is the completion of the Canon, then you're confusing the Word as perfect in quality and the Word of God as a complete Canon. So which "perfect" are you talking about?
@edgartc17 Hello. What I believe is that when 1 Cor was written prophecy and knowledge were 'in part', incomplete, as it says in vs.9-10. After the last book of the Bible was written God had passed on all the prophecy and knowledge that is now contained in the Bible. It was then 'perfect'. The word 'perfect' can also be translated as 'complete'. This makes sense as we know that we cannot add to the Bible. God bless, Mick
But how then how can James address his listeners to do what the "perfect law" (according to you is the complete Bible) says when during his time there was no complete Bible yet? In fact, James was the first NT book that was written.
You mean Paul had only seen a poor reflection of God's salvation plan since the Bible was not yet complete during his time? That would make him unsure of what he was talking about in all his letters about salvation.
@edgartc17 Paul was a walking, talking New Testament. Remember that he wrote half of it but even he did not know God's full plan as Revelation was not written until years later. In general people only had the Old Testament so they had a poor understanding until the fullness of the Bible came to be. God bless, Mick
TONGUES ARE FOR TODAY!!! IT IS THE SEAL OF THE HOLY GHOST THAT ONE CAN PRAY IN THEIR MOST HOLY FAITH,. PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT MEANS PRAYING IN TONGUES. YOU ARE PARROTING TEACHINGS OF OTHERS WITHOUT SEEKING GOD FOR YOURSELF. FAST!!! PRAY!! AND SEEK HIM THATS HOW YOU GET TONGUES.
Obviously you are WRONG! 1. HIS name is NOT "Jesus" that name is Greek HIS NAME IS YESHUA which means 'SALVATION"; 2. You use a Greek system linear and God is Cycle thats how HE teaches and thats how we to teach others. Obviously you don't have the SEAL of the Holy Ghost the sign which HE gave to HIS CHILDREN. You are parroting others. Fast and pray and seek God so you TOO CAN BE SEAL AND SPEAK IN TONGUES.
speaking in tongues is speaking in other languages that were not taught to a person.example,i have never been taught french but if i were to be in france and God wanted me to speak to a group of people ,they would understand me in french even though i am speaking in english or suddenly and to make the people understand what God would have me say to them the words would come out in french.
@iamavampo1 Tongues sure were languages but simply as a sign to the Jews rather than for spreading the gospel. In two of the three cases where tongues are mentioned in Acts, the people who RECEIVED the gospel spoke in tongues. However is all three cases Jews were present and in each case tongues was a sign to them. The book All About Speaking In Tongues is free at my site, called ChristianIssues, and explains this. God bless, Mick
As Christians you folks sure do seem to be argumentative? That s whats wrong today people want to argue about scripture? And to top it off its usually about stuff that doesn't even need to be understood and has absolutely nothing to do with what our Lord Jesus would want you to be doing? I'm sorry but I find this very sad to me, pages and pages back and forth at each other. Very sad.
@AntThatitable I appreciate your comment but you would be wise to read Acts 15:1-2 to see the reaction Paul had to false doctrine. All false doctrine leads souls to hell and, as sad as it is that Christians fiercely debate doctrine, it is going to be considerably sadder for those who find themselves in hell. It would be easier to sit back but we are commanded, in Jude 1:3, to earnestly contend for the faith. Feel free to sit back but remember you are accountable to Jesus. God bless, Mick
Just watched the opening of the video again. There is nothing in verse 11 that implies that the imperfect things will cease before the coming of the Lord. Nothing about the English implies that. This particular chapter says nothing about faith and hope ceasing at all.
I have responded to you on Grace Centered forums, assuming you are the poster with the same handled, which is an easier form of communication for text messages. Have you seen my color coded message which colors phrases that correspond with the perfect in one color, and the imperfect in another. I think this clears up the passage a lot.
If James compares the word of God to a mirror, and Paul uses the mirror to describe our knowledge BEFORE the coming of the perfect, then it is obvious that Paul is not talking about the Bible. The word of God was perfect in the time of James, before Paul wrote about this. The believers already had the perfect word that James wrote about at this time. Paul is talking about something else that is perfect and complete, something that will perfect the believer's speech, knowledge and understanding
@SaudaraLink As I have said before, unless you can refute the first two minutes of the video then you are stuck with the fact that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before Jesus returns. That being the case, you have to rethink your interpretations even though it goes against your beliefs. God bless, Mick
@SaudaraLink If you can't see that 1 Pet. 1:9 tells us that faith ceases when Jesus returns to bring salvation (Heb.9:28) then I can't say any more on that. However our blessed hope is in the appearing of Jesus (Tit. 2:13) and it cannot be denied that once seen our hope will cease as Rom. 8:24 says, "hope that is seen is no hope at all". This can only mean that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before Jesus returns.
@christianissues At the Second Coming, there may still be room for faith for events to come, like delivering up the kingdom to God. It is taking a leap to say that faith is no more. The Bible doesn't come out and say that. Thomas saw the resurrected Lord, and believed. There are those who do not see, yet still believe.
@SaudaraLink As I said, if you can't convince yourself that faith ceases you are still left with the hopeless task of extending hope past Jesus' appearance. But there is a point about faith you have missed. Everyone agrees that the gifts to the church cease when Jesus returns ... well faith IS one of those gifts (1 Cor. 12:9). The only way around that is to say that the gifts won't disappear but will go on eternally. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Knowledge does not disappear. It is completed. Perhaps the same happens to other gifts. I prefer not to speculate, but you seem a little more eager to speculate and treat it as doctrine. I can see how you reach your conclusion about hope ceasing, for example, but I think you need to take a little leap beyond what is written to get there, especially when it comes to faith. I prefer not to speculate.
@SaudaraLink My friend, you refuse to accept what is written and then suggest that I "take a little leap beyond what is written". Haven't you read what God tells us in 1 Cor. 4:6 - "Do not go beyond what is written". Who am I to listen to ... you or God? God bless, Mick
@christianissues Sorry for the confusion. Let me rephrase. When I wrote, "but I think you need to take a little leap beyond what is written to get there"-- I meant in order to arrive at your conclusions, it is necessary to take a little leap beyond what the verses actually meant. I was not recommending that you take a leap beyond what was written.
@SaudaraLink Oops! Sorry I misinterpreted what you said. I thought you were telling me to go beyond rather than saying I was going beyond ... sorry, old age. God bless, Mick
@SaudaraLink They sure are. You ought to see me get lost in forums. People must think I am ignoring them as I often can't find their message so I broadcast on telling of my age and ignorance ... hope that pacifies them. YouTube messages also seem to get some sort of crossover as I see some of your messages that I (don't think) I have responded to. God bless, Mick
@christianissues I see no basis in the passage for saying 'knowledge' is some specific kind of knowledge that does not include our knowledge of the word. The fact that we know about Christ and can spiritually know about Him is supernatural. We know by the Spirit. Peter knew Jesus was the Christ by revelation. Knowledge does not cease in the passage. Knowing in part is replaced with knowing as we are known. The 'in part' is replaced with 'that which is perfect.' We will not have imperfect gifts.
@SaudaraLink I have to agree with you. Our God is a God of FAITH and without FAITH it is impossible to please him. Now our faith in believing for the second coming will cease, this does not demnand that all faith for other things as you say for things to come will cease. And as far as tongues having been done away with when the Bible was cannonized is absolute hogwash. I speak in other tongues as the Holy Spirit gives me utterance pretty much on a daily basis. This promise is to all who believe
@AMATTEROFTRUTH Saying that Faith and Hope continue eternally is redefining the biblical terms. Tit 2:13 says that our blessed hope is in the appearance of Jesus and hope that is seen is no hope at all (Rom 8:24). What scripture do you use to define heavenly faith and hope? We are going to be changed into the likeness of Jesus - what sort of faith and hope does He have? Will some have weak faith and little hope? Not at all, our faith and hope will be fulfilled in Christ. God bless,
@christianissues I totally agree with you Mick that our hope and faith that we are using in this present world for our redemption will be fulfilled and completed, because we will have obtained that which we were believing for, namely eternal life with our Lord and our God. But the Bible says that God does not change, so if God desires, no requires that we use faith in this life and world, then why would God suddenly change and cause ALL faith for any and everything in the world to come?
@AMATTEROFTRUTH God doesn't change but we will when our flesh becomes spirit. Faith and hope are sorely needed for our salvation but not when we are spirit beings. 1 Pet. 1:9 says we are "receiving the END of your faith, even the salvation of your souls" - our faith ends with our final salvation. Just as tongues, prophecy and knowledge had a limited lifespan in the church, faith and hope are limited to our lifetime. You redefine faith and hope only to match your doctrine. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Faith is the evidence of things not seen, but that doesn't prove if something is seen there cannot be faith. A black oil spot is evidence of which parking space is mine, even my van is not seen. When my van comes back, the spot is still there, and it is still evidence that my van exists, even though my van is there and you can see it exists. Seeing does not eliminate the need for faith. That is why Thomas could see and believe in the resurrection.
@christianissues All this is a tangent. If faith and hope do cease at the end-- if that is Paul's argument-- there is still no evidence that knowledge in part and prophecy in part cease BEFORE the Lord's return in the passage. Just because you make a chart and say one thing happens before another does not make it so.
christianissues, you can't be trapped unless there is a problem with your theory. I was only trying to point out a contradiction in your theory. and I am sure you saw it too. Until you can give me a reasonable answer I won't go to the other problems in your theory. Blessings to you and yours.
@justin202101315 I can't see the hole you see. The knowledge and prophecy given to Paul made him practically a living New Testament. God gave him so much, he wrote us the letters and then he 'put away' prophecy and knowledge. The word 'put away' is the same word translated 'cease or vanish away' in vs.8. The connection between the 3 items of v.11 and the 3 items of v.8 is glaringly obvious and was even obvious to the writer of an 1871 commentary, well before the tongues issues of today. GB Mick
@christianissues There was speaking in tongues in the 1840s, and an 1871 commentary could quite easily be reactionary. Warfield's was. Paul will put away childish things when the perfect comes. At that time, he will know as he is known. He was not alive for the completion of scripture to experience this, which rules out that option, but he will be alive at the resurrection.
@justin202101315 Sorry I couldn't it fit it all in one reply. Forgive me if I repeat myself but I have a lousy memory and often have several conversations going at once. One thing I would ask of you. Refute the first two minutes of the video. If that is wrong then you will have me chewing things over. God bless, Mick
@justin202101315 I sure agree that the gifts are not childish but Paul talks about putting away these things as they were needed for the infant church until the Bible was available, that is complete (The word perfect can be translated 'complete'). But we will continue to differ on interpretation of these verses because we have different starting points. If you can show me error in the first two minutes of the video then I will have to rethink my position. Can you do that? God bless, Mick
christianissues, are you saying that Paul has access to the complete NT (orally or through written letters) by the time he wrote the letter to the Philippians?
@justin202101315 He died before Rev was written. However, note the personal, first person pronoun in v.11. He said that he personally put these things away as he went on to maturity ... if this does not refer to tongues, prophecy and knowledge then what does it refer to? The connection is glaringly obvious. Also, rather than trying to trap me why not give me an alternative explanation of why the perfect only does away with ONLY prophecy and knowledge. God bless, Mick
@christianissues This refers to Paul's natural childhood. Like all of us, we put away childish things when we grow up. Paul uses this analogy to describe what it will be like in the future. Notice the next verses: NOW we know in part. He is still in the childish stage. But THEN-- the future after the perfect comes-- we will know even as we are known. Paul uses his past life experience as an analogy for the change that will come to him at the coming of the perfect.
@SaudaraLink That does not add up to me. Firstly, v.13 is smack in the middle of speaking of supernatural gifts so it's sensible to connect it's contents with gifts. Secondly, the 3 items of v.13 are glaringly connected to the 3 items of v.8. Further still, the Greek word for 'put away' is exactly the same word translated 'cease' in v.8. These points add up to tell us that the infant church was going to 'put away' the 'childish' gifts as it matured - the Bible would replace them. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Sure, he is talking about gifts. He is saying we won't use these partial gifts and have partial knowledge, but they will be replaced with something complete, when 'the perfect' comes. When perfection comes, imperfection is no more. When corruption puts on incorruption, immortality is swallowed up of life. Nothing in the Bible indicates that the gift of prophecy is 'childish.' There is no reason to read that into this passage.
@SaudaraLink The first 2 minutes of the video show that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before Jesus returns. I can't see my way around that and I have tried. Another point is that ONLY prophecy and knowledge are said to be in part and disappear when the perfect comes. This is verified when we see that the verb used for the ceasing of tongues is Middle Voice and this tell us that tongues will cease at a different time to prophecy and knowledge which have a different Greek voice. GB Mick
@christianissues The middle voice thing sounds like a spurious argument. Middle is something like reflexive or something like 'end by itself.' I do not see how this would tell which ends first. And you haven't shown anything in the passage that indicates that tongues, knowledge, and prophecy will cease BEFORE the coming of the perfect. Early in the letter (1:7) Paul writes, "So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
@SaudaraLink You seem to have missed what I am saying. The first 2 mins of the video say that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before JESUS returns, NOT before the perfect comes. I can see now why we are going in circles and you are not understanding what I am saying. Sorry if I have added to the confusion. As I said before, if you can refute the first 2 mins of the video then you will have me rehashing things because that is where I talk about the ceasing BEFORE JESUS COMES. God bless Mick
@christianissues I have pointed this out earlier, either here or on GC forums. In verse 11, Paul said he put away childish things--past tense. It already happened. You take this as proof that tongues, prophecy, and knowledge would be put away b4 faith and hope cease. (I don't say faith will cease. I think you are taking an unsupported leap here in your reasoning. Thomas saw AND believed.) We know Paul had NOT stopped speaking in tongues because in ch 14 he says he spoke in tongues.
@SaudaraLink Paul spoke in tongues because tongues was still a gift at the time he wrote. Respectfully, you are entirely missing the timing sequence that I show in the video .. absolutely missing it. Six things exist, three cease & three continue on then two more cease when Jesus returns and one continues forever. The timing sequence shows that the first three cease before Jesus returns. God bless, Mick
@christianissues And again, there is nothing to indicate that incomplete knowledge (replaced with complete knowledge) and incomplete prophecy will cease until the coming of the perfect. Your time line is an assumption, not something from the text of scripture. It is eisegesis-- reading an idea into the text. The text does not teach faith ceases either. Thomas shows us it is possible to see and believe. Seeing does not mean faith no longer exists.
@christianissues There is nothing here that creates a time line that indicates these gifts will cease B4 the perfect comes. There is nothing that puts a date that these things have ceased. It is not knowledge that ceases, but knowledge in part that ceases. 'That which is in part' ceases, and 'that which is perfect' comes. The passage does not talk about faith ceasing. There is nothing in the passage about tongues, prophecy and knowledge ending before Christ returns in this passage.
@christianissues I take 'I put away childish things' to refer to Paul's literal coming to adulthood. He uses this as analogy for the future. Our life during this time is like chidhood in comparison to after the resurrection. In comparison, our speech, knowledge, and understanding will be childish to what we have after the resurrection. Much of what we have in the Bible is Paul's knowledge from this time period, so what is coming is very great.
@christianissues While they were waiting for Jesus to come, Paul was expecting the saints to exercise spiritual gifts, and tongues and prophecy were certainly among the gifts he mentioned in the chapter. Paul brings up topics and expands on them later in the book. I Cor. 1:7 gives us a good window into what Paul talks about in chapters 13-17. We exercise these gifts till the perfect comes-- while we are waiting for Jesus to get back and our bodies to be transformed or resurrected.
christianissues, you mentioned that without the completed scriptures, a person's understanding would be poor. You also said that Paul matured in his day. How could Paul mature in his day if he has not the complete scriptures? Is there a contradiction? There is no contradiction if you say that a christian could mature EVEN if he has poor understanding of scriptures.
@justin202101315 Firstly, without the New Testament, understanding would be very poor. However, Paul and the Apostles passed the New Testament knowledge on both orally and through written letters and, as you know, those letters became the New Testament. Phil. 3:15 tells us that Paul was mature and we are told to imitate him as he imitated Christ (1 Cor. 11:1). I can't see how a person could be mature in the knowledge of the Word Himself without having the complete Word of God. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Paul wrote to the Ephesians 'that by reading this, you might understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ." The epistles are a supernatural transfer of the divine knowledge of the faith the apostles already possessed-- the faith once delivered to the saints-- knowledge possessed before the canon was written down. Yet, in the sense Paul describes in I Corinthians, even this knowledge is childish in comparison to the fuller knowledge of Christ that awaits us.
There is nothing in the passage that indicates tongues and prophecy will cease before the coming of the perfect. The passage does not say that knowledge and prophecy will cease. It is 'that which is part' that will be done away. Paul knew in part. But when the perfect comes, Paul will 'know even as I am known.' The knowledge he had in this current age is partial. When he is transformed at the coming of Christ, he will still have knowledge, just more complete.
@SaudaraLink Hello there. Tongues has nothing to do with the coming of the perfect. If you look carefully at vs.9-10 you will see that the perfect only does away with prophecy and knowledge. This is an important point. Why only prophecy and knowledge? Simply because the Bible is entirely prophecy and knowledge. Tongues was mentioned in v.8 but dropped from the verses dealing with the perfect and that is because tongues has nothing to do with today's perfect, complete Bible. God bless, Mick
@SaudaraLink When you study v.11 you will see that Paul is saying that he 'put away' tongues, prophecy and knowledge as he went on to maturit. The connection between the 3 items in v.8 and the 3 items in v.13 is unmistakable. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Rather, Paul compares childish speech, knowledge, and understanding that he had at that time with that of a child's. Partial knowledge (and perhaps we might infer prophecy) will be done away with, but Paul will have more complete knowledge and know as he is known. Perhaps the same is true of prophecy. Paul will do away with childish things when he becomes a man, which corresponds with the coming of the perfect, at the resurrection.
@SaudaraLink The verb in v.11 which is translated 'put away' is the same verb used in v.8 where it is translated 'cease'. Clearly Paul is referring to the cessation of speaking, which is tongues, thinking, which is knowledge and reasoning, which is prophecy. These things were said to be childish because they were for the infant church. As I said before, show me where the first 2 minutes of the video are wrong ... it's simply a logical conclusion of the English language. God bless, Mick
@christianissues He will put these things away when the perfect comes. His speech, knowledge, and understanding will be like an adult's at time time, in comparison to his speech, knowledge and understanding during the time he wrote portions of the New Testament, which were like a child's understanding by comparison.
@SaudaraLink I agree entirely that, without the completed scriptures, a person's understanding would be poor. The word 'perfect' in 1 Cor. 13:10 can be translated 'complete' and this is further proof that the perfect is referring to the completed scriptures. Also, Paul matured in his day ... not 2000 years future. But, I would ask you again to examine the first two minutes of the video. If my conclusion is wrong there then you will sway me to re-examine my position. God bless, Mick
@SaudaraLink 1Co 13:9-10 say, "For we know [knowledge] in part, and we prophesy [prophecy] in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away". From these two verses you can see that the 'in part' is done away with when the perfect (complete) comes. Also 1 Cor. 13:11 says that Paul will 'put away' tongues, prophecy and knowledge as he matured. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Maybe we are getting closer on the issue, since you now see these things are going away when the perfect comes rather than before it. But again, the passage is CRYSTAL CLEAR that KNOWLEDGE WILL NOT PASS AWAY. Rather knowing in part will be replaced with something greater, knowing as one is known. So it is not knowledge that passes away (nonsensical if you think about it) but 'in part' that passage away. Partial knowledge is replaced by perfect/mature/complete knowledge.
@SaudaraLink I don't agree that it is nonsensical for knowledge to pass away when you realise that it is talking about supernatural knowledge ... the discussion is regarding supernatural gifts, not head knowledge. The knowledge spoken of is like the knowledge Paul passed on to us in the Bible ... like how to run a church etc. Besides that it is nonsensical to say that normal knowledge will ever pass away ... otherwise it would mean that we would then be brian dead. God bless, Mick
@Aussiedler77 My friend, if you can show me the error in just the first 2 minutes of the video then you will go a long way in convincing me that the gifts are still around. The first part of the video is simply talking about ceasing and remaining and it is plain English. Something can't be said to cease and then still be around to cease later on. Please, watch the video again ... we don't need spiritual insight to see that things can't cease and still remain. God bless, Mick
@christianissues I am not your friend. How can I be your friend, if you twist the word of god? I have shown you that you twist the word of god, I will not convince you of anything. What good is it, to convince you of gifts, of you don't believe the word of god? You have to believe the word of god. as long as you don't do that, you are cursed.
Please don't call yourself christian, if you don't believe the bible.
@christianissues I am not your friend. How can I be your friend, if you twist the word of god? I have shown you that you twist the word of god (In my other comments if you scroll the page down, I guess you havent read them), I will not try to convince you of anything again. What good is it, to convince you of gifts, of you don't believe the word of god? You have to believe the word of god.
@Aussiedler77 You still haven't refuted the first two minutes of the video. Here is is simply put - There are six men, Mr. Tongues, Mr. Prophecy, Mr. Knowledge, Mr. Faith, Mr. Hope and Mr. Love. Mr. T, P & K die (cease to be) so only Mr. F, H & L remain alive. Then Mr. F & H die leaving Mr. Love to live on. So, we can see that Mr. T, P & K die and cease to be before Mr. F & H. In the same way, Tongues, Prophecy and Knowledge have already ceased leaving Faith & Hope to cease when Jesus returns.
@christianissues The video makes a lot of assumptions and assertions not supported by the text. It is hard to paste it all in a little box like this. I am going to attempt to post a video response if it is accepted, 'Did the gifts cease? That which is Perfect ' which deals with the issues in the chapter in more depth. The coming of the perfect that Paul mentions here is part of a longer argument that he expands on further in chapter 15 in the discussion of the resurrection at the parousia.
3 (contin.) The ministries are UNTIL HIS CHURCH will be PERFECT (same word as in Cor 13). From that we are very far away. Therefore we need the gifts now in this time. When the church is perfect, Jesus will com efor his bride without spots and wrinkles.
This is the WORD OF GOD. You cannot change it. The Word of God does not contradict itself. According to your interpretation it would contradict. The gifts are for the perfecting of the church. He will have a pure bride!
3. In Eph 4:11-13 it is written: He GAVE some apostles, prophets, ... TILL
This speaks of the exact time, when there will be ministries (and with the ministries also gifts) of the spirit will operate on earth. He gives this Operations, till something happens:
Eph 4,13 TILL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT man...(continued on next post)
2. In Eph 4 we read the purpose, for what the Holy Spirit gives us the gifts and ministries. First, the scriptures says in Eph 4,8 that Jesus died on the cross so that we can have spiritual gifts. If you deny the gifts or interpret in the scriptures that we don't need them, you are actually disregarding the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary. That is not a light thing, that speaks of a very evil heart! There you must repent.
1. How can you see FACE TO FACE with the bible? That is impossible. so the "Perfect" cannot be "scriptures" or "Bible" - it is only possible when JESUS HAS COME. That is the time when we don't need spiritual gifts. Until he hasn't come, we have the HOLY SPIRIT, who gives us gifts as he choses.
If you do a word study on "perfect" it never mentions the scritpures. Peter wrote "we have a more surer word of prophecy because we know Him." You are applying isogeses when you come up with a new concept based on one word. You are directly translating word for word "perfect" as Bible, or completion of scriptures. But no such concept exists that I know of, and the word "perfect" usually means "perfecting of the saints", "being made perfect". Never means scripture.
@harmono You have missed very important points in the video. The Bible is called "the perfect law of liberty" in James 1:23-25. The word perfect in those verses is the same word used in 1 Cor. 13:9-10. In those verses in James the Bible is also likened to a mirror just as it is in 1 Cor. 13:11. Look closely, the Bible fits all the verses in 1 Cor 13:8-13. One more thing, the word perfect in 1 Cor. 13:9-10 can be translated "complete". God bless, Mick
@christianissues The Bible was not complete at the time James wrote his epistle. So at that time prophecy, and knowledge had not ceased. So if James is saying the Bible is perfect then, then there would be no need for knowledge and prophecy then. I see alot of circular reasoning, and clever assumptions that don't amount to anything. We are still back to your flaw in 1 Corinthains 8-10 too.
@harmono My friend you overlook the simple fact that the Bible is full of prophecy. Don't you think that God knew what He was talking about when He, through James, called the Bible the perfect law of liberty? ... that is, the perfect law of freedom in Christ, the gospel. Please study v.11 and you will see that Paul clearly said that tongues, prophecy and knowledge were put away as he went on to maturity ... therefore this occurred in the 1st century. God bless, Mick
Paul writes in verse 13 "now abides faith, hope, love".
He doesn't say faith, and hope, will cease anywhere in the text. One could imply that hope, and faith will cease when Christ comes, but that is not in the text anywhere.
The only part of the Bible that I know of that says the Bible prophecy will be sealed is in Daniel 9:24. The verse in the Book of revelation about adding or taking away from this book is talkign about the book of Revelation itself. John is instructed to "write these things in a book". John didn't write the whole Bible.
The word Bible means "library". It's a library of scrolls that were collected into one book hundreds of years later. The perfect did not come when the Bible was bound.
You just now added to the Bible. No where in the context does it say that the completion of the Bible ends tongues and prophecy. You just add to the context, (isogesis) and read into it your preconcieved notions. We still need knowledge, so the perfect has not come. Knowledge is not written word, otherwise it would say.
So we don't need the Bible any more when we mature and are perfect? That's very scary. You need to continue to gain knowledge, because the perfect has not come.
@harmono You have misinterpreted what I said here also. Only prophecy and knowledge ceased when the Bible was completed. Tongues has nothing to do with the completion of the Bible. If you watch Part C carefully you will see that I say that we come to maturity through the Bible, so I am not so scary after all. Please watch the videos carefully as you are totally misinterpreting what I am saying. God bless my friend. Mick
@christianissues where is the distinction made between prophecy, and tongues int he text? So there is another problem. You make a distinction in time, that is not there. You say prophecy, and knowledge have ceased when the perfect has come, but not tongues, but the Bible says all three, not just two will cease when the perfect has come.
@harmono You need to look closer at the Bible. It clearly says that the coming of the perfect will do away with only prophecy and knowledge. Note that in verses 9-10 tongues is not mentioned. Only prophecy and knowledge are mentioned in these verses. Check it carefully and ask yourself why. God bless, Mick
@jacmam1 jac I took a close look and what I found was context. you mention verse 9 and 10, but the context starts in verse 8. And in verse 8 it includes tongues among knowledge, and prophecy that will cease. It would be more consistent, and more logical that all three will cease when the perfect comes, especially in light of the context of chapt 12, and 14. Don't use tunnel vision and pick and chose when reading. There is context there that is being entirely missed.
@harmono Today's tongue is an idol this is why its hard to for people to accept that tongues have ceased. You guys need to follow what Paul wrote by the Holy Spirit and pursue a more excellet way, love. Love is relatioship with Jesus Christ, abiding in Him that you might bear fruit that can only enable you to love another person. Some even believe they have the Holy Spirit but decieve themselves and live like the devil, what a foolishness.
@harmono The message from jacmam1 was actually from me. Here it is again ... You need to look closer at the Bible. It clearly says that the coming of the perfect will do away with ONLY prophecy and knowledge. Note that in verses 9&10 tongues is not mentioned. Only prophecy and knowledge are mentioned in these two verses. Tongues is in verse 8 but is excluded from verses 9&10 Check it carefully and ask yourself why ... there is an answer. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Verse 9 and 10 are not the whole Bible. You need to read it in context. Just above in verse 8 it does mention tongues. The very widespread "cessation' of tongues teaching is based on verse 8. I agree with the cessationists that all three cease at the same time, but I don't agree on when that is or will be. It's a big jump to say the "perfect' is the Bible. A careful word study shows that "perfect" usually has to do with personally being made perfect.
@harmono Yes, the widespread teaching is as you say, but it is wrong. God dropped tongues from the discussion of the coming of the perfect because the Bible is made up of just prophecy and knowledge and has nothing to do with tongues. At the time of writing of 1 Cor, prophecy and knowledge were said to be 'in part' because the Bible itself was still 'in part' . The word 'perfect' can be translated 'complete' and that describes today's Bible which cannot be added to. God bless, Mick
You ALL are a bunch of Holy Spirit Blaspheming demons. Satan knows just how to twist scripture up to have you foolish people calling that which is Holy evil. Tongue is not my idol. The real evidence of the Holy Spirit is LOVE. But forsake not tongues. It has not ceased. You folks need to train your demons to stay out of grown folks business. Shut up talking to me.
@DeeStinger1 I often ask the Lord why people are so eager to die clinging to the error of talking in tongue today and would not bother to find out, first, what the purpose of tongue is and why it had to stop. The reason is simply due to idolatory. People want a god they can feel and force into submitting to their will instead of seeking the fountain of living water. They want an idol they can cling onto and say " I have the Holy Spirit" Thus, they dig for themselves Wells that hold no water.
@readjohnchpt15 Since the apostles spoke in tongues, did miracles, and ministered in other gifts of the Holy Spirit, do you consider them to be idolators? I can't help but think your idea of Christianity is very different from what the apostles experienced in the first century.
@DeeStinger1 I believe in speaking in tongues and all the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in the Bible. But do you really think this approach is going to help anyone? Do you really think the posters are not humans, but rather demons who have committed the unpardonable sin?
@SaudaraLink That wasn't my approach originally. They sort of pushed me into that direction, talking down to me. If they want to continue to call that which is Holy an act of satan, then...oh well. They're set in their beliefs and the only thing that can help them is the Spirit. Someone told me the devil made me speak in tongue. Thats the spirit of antichrist, the spirit of satan, who knows scripture better than they do, and can twist it as he wills. All he needs is an audience. THEM.
I've spoken in tongue. I've witnessed others speak in tongue followed by someone who interpreted. You telling me, the devil made me do it? The Holy Spirit is still with us and so are His Gifts. He is not here Giftless. And the purpose of tongues is still for the Holy Spirit to decide when it's needed. As in all gifts they are led by Him. Itching ears will find a scratch. And that which is perfect is Jesus, not the Bible.
@DeeStinger1 Yes- the Devil made you talk the nonesense tongue because tongue have ceased. Pursue a more excellennt way as directed in 1 Cor 13. A more excellent way is the way of bearing fruit that glorifies God John 15.
In Jn 15:1, the Lord made it clear that "Any branch in me that bears no fruit, I will cut off" The Lord means what he said. He is speaking to all of you who do not pursue Love but are caught-up in Satan's lie of fake unholy ghost. The real tongue have ceased.
@BelovedSheep Your post is incredibly foolish. You don't know where some stranger on the Internet's tongues came from. Based on some false teachings you have accepted, you say it came from the Devil. What did Christ say to His opponents when they said that the Spirit He did His works by was Beelzebub, the prince of devils? He warned them that whoever spoke against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this age or the age to come. They erred by calling the Holy Spirit the prince of devils.
@SaudaraLink Hi Dear, I am glad that it made you angry so you might take it to God in prayer. The Christian life is too precious waste speaking absolute nonesense.
@DeeStinger1 Watch what you say young fella. The Word of God is Perfect. This teaching is absolutely correct. I can only bet that tongue has become your idol. The purpose of tongue is fulfiled and tongue ceased. Kick your tongue idol and "Present yourself a living sacrifice fully acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service" Rom 12:1, and abide in His Love "Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." Romans 12:2. Burn your tongue Idol.
@DeeStinger1May the Lord deliver these confused tongue-talking phonies. Who is this Pagan that dared to say that the Bible, God's Word, who is the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ Himself, is not perfect?
Because you have scriptures in which he wrote down his God-given thoughts, speech, and understanding? That does not make sense. How could prophecy have ceased if the 2 witnesses will prophesy? What of the prophets referred to in Revelation?
@SaudaraLink The Two Witness will, like all Christians, be witnessing (ie prophesying) about Jesus. They can't bring new prophecy as Rev.22:18-19 forbids it. The video Speaking In Tongues Part 3 talks about the the prophecy sealed when the Seven Thunders spoke.
@SaudaraLink Prophesy today is forth-telling which means the Gospel, the testimony or Witness of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is what the 2 witnesses will do, they will testify of Jesus. Fore-telling, which is God's plan of Salvation, did cease and so did tongue. People perish for lack of knowledge. If you do not understand Scriptures why don't you ask wisdom of God and not lean on your own understanding. The Lord said "The heart is deceitful above all things, who can know it"
@DiscernAllThings I take it you disagree with the idea in the video that prophecy has ceased. I suggest you do a bit deeper digging into the meaning of 'prophecy' in scripture.
1. The Greek word for 'prophecy' is used to translate the Hebrew word for prophecy, so simply taking a potential interpretation of the Greek morphemes is not sufficient.
2. Prophets in the OT spoke by revelation, often saying "Thus saith the Lord" followed by a message from God.
@SaudaraLink If you prophesy, you will accurately handle the word of God, telling someone about Jesus Christ without decieving them such as telling them to speak gibberish tongue, this is deception. Only the Holy Spirit can open a person's mind to His Word or else one remains in darkness & just argue & argue what they just don't understand & also lead others astray. This is why there are many false prophet & false believers today, they will NOT abide in the Vine, which is the more excellent way
@DiscernAllThings What I have written, I have backed up with the word of God. I do ask God for wisdom. As for calling gifts of the Spirit described in the Bible 'gibberish', that is not a respectful or spiritual way of describing God's gifts.
@SaudaraLink If you asked God for wisdom He would have helped you understand that "tongues of angels" is a rebuke to the nonsense people speak today.which started in Corinth, b/c there is nothing like tthe tongue/ language of Angels. Anyone who is born again understand that prophesy is telling people about Jesus, He is the reason we exist & prophesy. Rev 19:10 "If I be lifted up, I will drawall men unto me" Sorry, No one can mock God. Ask that you might propesy & save your neighbours.
@DiscernAllThings It seems you are wise in your own eyes. If you will notice, I have never said that telling people about Jesus is not or cannot be prophesying. Prophesying involves speaking or communicating and moved by the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Spirit testifies about Christ. It is also possible to testify about Christ without being moved of the Spirit, as may heretics have done throughout history.
@DiscernAllThings I do not mind continuing a conversation with you if you wish. But if you want to continue, please drop the condescending super-spiritual attitude. You imply you are right because you prayed for wisdom, and that I must not have prayed for wisdom because I believe something different. The irony here is that I am going by scripture, and you seem to rely on a kind of revelatory wisdom. I believe in revelatory wisdom, but you seem to be promoting a cessationist position.
@SaudaraLink Try to study the meaning of prophesy. Invest some time in study, this is where your problem lies. Prophesy has 2 types, (1) Foretelling & (2) Forthtelling. This teacher explained it on Parts 2 & 3. When you've understood the true meaning of Prophesy, then we will have a dialogue. You can't just rip Scriptures out of context & intimidate me to believe that you what you say is Scriptural & what I say is..?? Ask the Lord to give you wisdom, its FREE,
@DiscernAllThings I don't see where you get that I am intimidating you. I do see you doing the tactic of implying that your 'opponent' lacks wisdom you have, rather than focusing on dialog. I do pray for wisdom.You may too.But don't assume you have all of it. I have spent many hours on the subject of prophecy, going through a concordance, seeing how the Greek and Hebrew words are used, studying the usage of the words in context. Scripture does not divide prophecy into 'foretell' and 'forthtell'.
@DiscernAllThings The Bible shows prophecies about the past, present, and future state of things. We talk about past, present, and future, and so does God. True prophecy is whatever the Lord wants to say through someone. God's Spirit moves people to speak, sing, play instruments, and communicate in other ways (e.g. burning hair or wearing iron yokes.) The Spirit testifies of Christ. The prophecies of the New and Old Testament do point to Christ.
@SaudaraLink Brother, you have a long way to go. Write me when you gain more understanding and we will talk. May I say that the delusion of today's tongue-talking iand misunderstanding if Spiritual giftes s very strong .For this reason, I will not wrangle over words becasue you have become rude and abusive to those who seek to snatch you out of the Jaws of Satan. This is always the case. Thank You.
@DiscernAllThings I have not spoken rudely or abusively to you. I did point out that you come off as condescending and as if you consider yourself to be wiser than the person you are talking to. If you'd like to talk in the future, that's fine. Just leave the condescending attitude at the door. It doesn't get you anywhere.
@SaudaraLink They actually come off as a bunch of scribes and Pharisees. I know when I got filled with the Holy Spirit after a three day fast, that when the Spirit made intercession for me, it was not the spirit of satan. I cried and groaned for 10 minutes at least. My mind didn't know what I was saying to God but my heart did. I later spoke in tongues and witnesses others with translation. No matter how they interpret scripture to suit them, I KNOW tongues have not ceased.
@DeeStinger1 -It is blasphemy to artribute to the Holy Spirit what demonic forces worked and is still working in you. One sign that a man is born again is desire for God's word, Period 1 Peter 2 :2, and not talking gibberish moaning and groaning demonic tongues. What you did for 10 minutes was a typical demonic estacy that took over your mind. This is exactly the same demonic eratic estatic behavior that the Corintians brought into the Church causing Paul to rebuke them..
@BelovedSheep What a hypocrite. We know we're Born Again because we become a new creature. We're born of the Spirit from above so the Spirit dwells in us. We have a change of heart as a spiritual transformation takes place. The Spirit in us tells us what's real and what's garbage. YOU speak garbage. Cult members are in God's Word probably even more than you. Are they born again? You continually call that which is Holy, demonic forces. The Spirit isn't in you. You're one of those of (Matt.7:23)
@BelovedSheep (cont) who He never knew because you were never born into His Family. You have a nerve and talk as a fool. One of those more Holy than thou pharisees. Committing the unforgivable sin of speaking evil of The Holy Spirit, because of your misinterpretation of scripture. You couldn't even get 1 Pet. 2:2 right. And obviously know nothing of Romans 8:26 as you call my groanings an act of satan. I hope your dog doesn't follow you out in a lightning storm. You hypocrites disgust me. :-P
@DeeStinger1 Glad you got angry, I hope your anger provokes you to seek God's truth that you might be set you free. Pursue a better gift that you may prophesy. Those who spoke real tongues were filled with the Holy Spirit and preached the Gospel to unbelievers who heard them. What you spoke in your estasy to yourself moaning and groaning, is of demonic spirits. Tongues have CEASED. Eternity is foreever, make sure you are in the faith. God bless you.
@DeeStinger1 I believe you have gotten so drunk with your new wine and foolish tongues that you have lost your silly mind and opened your sick mouth to say that God's Word is not perfect. You have so commited fornication with demonic spirits that you have gone stone mad.
The Word of God is Jesus Christ who is also the Holy Spirit John 1: 1-3. This is the first knowledge given every true born again beliver causing them to trust God. The demonic spirit speaking tru you have driven you crazy.
@BelovedSheep The case of the UNFORGIVABLE SIN is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30. Blasphemy may be generally defined as defiant irreverence. We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or (willfully degrading things relating to Him). It is also denying Him good that we should attribute to Him. The Pharisees, witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that He was possessed by Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). THIS SOUND FAMILIAR?
@DeeStinger1 It sounds famliar that Paul ponted out that you'd rather speak 5 words that you understand than ten thousand words in gibberish tongue because Satan uses your tongue to throw curses at the Almighty and you willingly allow him to do so.
@BelovedSheep Me, angry?? Not at all. I don't bite my tongue about hypocrites and modern day pharisees who walk around claiming Jesus then call gifts of the Holy Spirit works of satan. Discern when satan immitates vs. The Holy Spirit at work. Prophecies will be accomplished, imperfect knowledge will vanish and become complete, and tongues will cease for there are no unbelievers. There's no need for any of these in the state of perfection. That state of being with Him Face to Face.
@BelovedSheep A house divided against itself shall not stand. It's impossible for the Holy Spirit to curse The Holy Spirit thru His gift of tongues. I have not spoken to you in one word of another tongue. I speak only what I assume you can understand, in plain english, avoiding big words, because...And I have not once cursed The Almighty. You, in your perfectly understandable english, is the one dishonoring and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Silense yourself before the Great I AM does it for you.
@DeeStinger1- What comes out of your mouth today is NOT from the Holy Spirit of God. The deception is that the Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit will do NOTHING of its own, but will only do that which God sent Him to do. Don't jump the fence. Get on your knees and cry to the Lord Jesus Christ ask Him to deliver you from today's tongue delusion. I agree with the other brother that tongue-talking have become your idol and snare. Do you see how difficult it is for you to free yourself from it?
@BelovedSheep It appears that you are the ones who needs to fall on your face and cry out for forgiveness of blaspheme. If it's not to late. Don't bother asking forgiveness if you persist. You're damned eternally. You know nothing of me to say tongues is my idol and snare. Tongues is a gift of the HS which you speak evil of. Its NOT required. It is NOT evidence of the HS, but Love. It is NOT a sign of spiritual maturity. It IS a gift of the HS and not to be blasphemed. You ALL HAVE BEEN WARNED.
@DeeStinger1 Jesus NEVER spoke in tongue. While He moaned and groaned to the Father in the garden of Gethsemane in John 17 before He went to the Cross, He spoke what you and I understood and can identify with, It was written down, you read it and I read it! Who have bewitched you to utter usless blabble and claim its from the Holy Spirit? How long will this generation fool themselves with satan's lie. Are we not supposed to take example from our Lord?
6. Paul shows a connection between revelation and prophesying in I Corinthians 14. He writes to let the PROPHETS speak two or three and let the other judge. If a REVELATION comes to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all PROPHESY on by one....
Prophesy involves speaking by revelation, under the moving of the Spirit. There is a distinction between evangelistic preaching and prophecy, and teaching and prophecy found in scripture.
@SaudaraLink-The Spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus Christ Rev 19:10. Get it dear. Prophesy about Salvation plan of God HAVE CEASED. Prophesy, today is telling someone about Jesus Christ our Lord. This is why Paul said to follow the more excellent way, That's to Abide in the Vine Jn 15. Please read my other responses. A problem with many is that they don't know & will not ask the Lord, they just argue, I used to be that way many years ago. I argued about everything I didn't know.
@DiscernAllThings You still seem to do plenty of arguing. How is it that you say that prophecy is telling someone about Jesus, but not salvation or the plan of God?
@SaudaraLink The prophesy of salvation plan of God is Completed and Ceased. Today, prophesy, "Forthtelling" Is to make Jesus Shine. This is why the Bible said "Study to show yourself approved unto God a workman who need not be ashamed, accurately handling the word of Truth" 2 Tim 2:15. The reason you din't believe that Prophesy is telling people about Jesus is b/c Satan wants you to believe the God is "lucky" to have you & deny that Victory in Jesus is the heart of the Gospel.
Your video assumes a timeline approach to the passage. The last verse ends 'and NOW abideth faith, hope and charity.' He does not say they continue to abide after some point in the future. Paul will experience something that will cause his then-current thoughts, speech, and understanding to be childish in comparison. Is your speech, knowledge, and understanding more mature than Paul's?
@SaudaraLink The NOW in v.13 is not the now of time but the now of argument. Like if I say, "Now, if John and Mary get married, then ... etc etc". Dictionaries and commentaries will verify this. Here is the JFB commentary: “now” does not express time, but opposition, as in 1Co_5:11.
God has not been adding ANYTHING to his word EVER. It is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending.
He is trying to explain the Holy Spirit, without having received the Holy Spirit. How can the blind lead the blind. Unknown tongues, Rom 8:26-28, 1 Cor 14, is given to you for speaking to God. Without using your intellect. You are praying in the spirit. Not with the understanding, because your understanding is unfruitful, when you are praying in the Spirit.
Curtlarsson 4 months ago
There is no timeline where tongues, knowledge and prophecy will cease before Jesus returns.
He says that, "the bible cannot be added on to today". But you can not take away anything from the bible either, i.e. tongues. Because God will take away from you, read book of Revelation.
He is saying that the Bible has been incomplete, but that it is now complete.
All the gifts will cease only when we see Jesus face to face. Not before
Curtlarsson 4 months ago
On the video he is saying that Paul reached a state of maturity and said, "he was putting away the childish gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge", where he no longer was praying in tongues. But Paul said, that I speak in tongues more than you all. The bible never said, that it is childish to speak in tongues. Why did then go around and laying his hands on people, and as they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit, they started to speak in other tongues.
Curtlarsson 4 months ago
By your reasoning, God's Word was at some point imperfect or incomplete. God is perfect and complete. His Word is perfect and revealed perfectly at any given point in time. How can you deny what the Scriptures say about manifestations of the holy spirit? We are in the church age. All the things that the apostles did are still available to believers today through the power of the holy spirit which you receive when you are born-again.
Hoogz20 4 months ago
@Hoogz20 Hello there. You have misunderstood what was said. The text says that prophecy and knowledge were 'in part' not imperfect. The Bible was 'in part', incomplete, when 1 Corinthians was written as many more letters had yet to be written. The word Greek word translated 'perfect' does not refer to the perfection of God or such but is better translated as incomplete. In other parts of the Bible is it translated as mature. God bless, Mick
christianissues 4 months ago
@christianissues I think you need to use more verses on the topic before you can come to the conclusions that you have. The devil wants to stop believers from manifesting the holy spirit because it takes away the power of God. That's why we see so few people actually using it. There are counterfeits of the holy spirit but they are easily discernable. I suggest you reconsider your position. You don't want to mislead people if you're wrong. Can we discuss this scripturally in a private message?
Hoogz20 4 months ago
@Hoogz20 Hello there. My email is leeandmick@gmail.com if you want to contact me there to discuss tongues. I know one thing for sure, if you can refute the first two minutes of this video then you will have my attention. God bless, Mick
christianissues 4 months ago
@bullawaya Yes, tongues were known languages. And, as you said, no one spoke in tongues of angels. Paul was using exaggerated language, in 1 Cor. 13:1-3, to show that love was greater than any gift or deed. God bless, Mick
christianissues 4 months ago
But how then how can James address his listeners to do what the "perfect law" (according to you is the complete Bible) says when during his time there was no complete Bible yet? In fact, James was the first NT book that was written.
edgartc17 5 months ago
@edgartc17 Hello again. Tell me, what is the perfect law of James 1:25 if it is not the 'word' mentioned in vs.22-23? What other 'word' are we to listen to and follow? What other 'word' is like a mirror to us (to our soul)? The OT was perfect as is the NT. All of God's word is perfect and brings freedom. I think you need to refute the first two or three of minutes of the video before wrestling with these verses. God bless, Mick
christianissues 5 months ago
@christianissues Hi. If the OT is "perfect" when did it "come"? 1 Cor. 13:10 talks about "when the perfect comes". So what exactly the "perfect" thing you are talking about here? Is it the Word of God as perfect (which I do agree) or the completion of the Canon? If it is the completion of the Canon, then you're confusing the Word as perfect in quality and the Word of God as a complete Canon. So which "perfect" are you talking about?
edgartc17 5 months ago
@edgartc17 Hello. What I believe is that when 1 Cor was written prophecy and knowledge were 'in part', incomplete, as it says in vs.9-10. After the last book of the Bible was written God had passed on all the prophecy and knowledge that is now contained in the Bible. It was then 'perfect'. The word 'perfect' can also be translated as 'complete'. This makes sense as we know that we cannot add to the Bible. God bless, Mick
christianissues 5 months ago
But how then how can James address his listeners to do what the "perfect law" (according to you is the complete Bible) says when during his time there was no complete Bible yet? In fact, James was the first NT book that was written.
edgartc17 5 months ago
You mean Paul had only seen a poor reflection of God's salvation plan since the Bible was not yet complete during his time? That would make him unsure of what he was talking about in all his letters about salvation.
edgartc17 5 months ago
@edgartc17 Paul was a walking, talking New Testament. Remember that he wrote half of it but even he did not know God's full plan as Revelation was not written until years later. In general people only had the Old Testament so they had a poor understanding until the fullness of the Bible came to be. God bless, Mick
christianissues 5 months ago
all the so called tongues we hear today are nothing but pure counterfeits
lunabranwen 9 months ago
TONGUES ARE FOR TODAY!!! IT IS THE SEAL OF THE HOLY GHOST THAT ONE CAN PRAY IN THEIR MOST HOLY FAITH,. PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT MEANS PRAYING IN TONGUES. YOU ARE PARROTING TEACHINGS OF OTHERS WITHOUT SEEKING GOD FOR YOURSELF. FAST!!! PRAY!! AND SEEK HIM THATS HOW YOU GET TONGUES.
brazilian777able 11 months ago
Obviously you are WRONG! 1. HIS name is NOT "Jesus" that name is Greek HIS NAME IS YESHUA which means 'SALVATION"; 2. You use a Greek system linear and God is Cycle thats how HE teaches and thats how we to teach others. Obviously you don't have the SEAL of the Holy Ghost the sign which HE gave to HIS CHILDREN. You are parroting others. Fast and pray and seek God so you TOO CAN BE SEAL AND SPEAK IN TONGUES.
brazilian777able 11 months ago
Wow, now that is breaking it all the way down! Anointed!!!!!
fredgold2g 11 months ago
awesome video! thanks! keep up the good work! may god bless you for the great work you are doing :)
samarjithrichomaster 1 year ago
speaking in tongues is speaking in other languages that were not taught to a person.example,i have never been taught french but if i were to be in france and God wanted me to speak to a group of people ,they would understand me in french even though i am speaking in english or suddenly and to make the people understand what God would have me say to them the words would come out in french.
iamavampo1 1 year ago
@iamavampo1 Tongues sure were languages but simply as a sign to the Jews rather than for spreading the gospel. In two of the three cases where tongues are mentioned in Acts, the people who RECEIVED the gospel spoke in tongues. However is all three cases Jews were present and in each case tongues was a sign to them. The book All About Speaking In Tongues is free at my site, called ChristianIssues, and explains this. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Amen, as a sign unto the Jews... Isa 28:11-14 make this very clear... Peace unto you
AchreousD 9 months ago
Awesome job!
Domodeath 1 year ago
As Christians you folks sure do seem to be argumentative? That s whats wrong today people want to argue about scripture? And to top it off its usually about stuff that doesn't even need to be understood and has absolutely nothing to do with what our Lord Jesus would want you to be doing? I'm sorry but I find this very sad to me, pages and pages back and forth at each other. Very sad.
Jesus Bless You!
AntThatitable 1 year ago
@AntThatitable I appreciate your comment but you would be wise to read Acts 15:1-2 to see the reaction Paul had to false doctrine. All false doctrine leads souls to hell and, as sad as it is that Christians fiercely debate doctrine, it is going to be considerably sadder for those who find themselves in hell. It would be easier to sit back but we are commanded, in Jude 1:3, to earnestly contend for the faith. Feel free to sit back but remember you are accountable to Jesus. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
Just watched the opening of the video again. There is nothing in verse 11 that implies that the imperfect things will cease before the coming of the Lord. Nothing about the English implies that. This particular chapter says nothing about faith and hope ceasing at all.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
I have responded to you on Grace Centered forums, assuming you are the poster with the same handled, which is an easier form of communication for text messages. Have you seen my color coded message which colors phrases that correspond with the perfect in one color, and the imperfect in another. I think this clears up the passage a lot.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink I'll have a look but can't promise to find it. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
This Video is false doctrine! You should repent and obey Acts 2:38!
praizingHIM 1 year ago
If James compares the word of God to a mirror, and Paul uses the mirror to describe our knowledge BEFORE the coming of the perfect, then it is obvious that Paul is not talking about the Bible. The word of God was perfect in the time of James, before Paul wrote about this. The believers already had the perfect word that James wrote about at this time. Paul is talking about something else that is perfect and complete, something that will perfect the believer's speech, knowledge and understanding
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink As I have said before, unless you can refute the first two minutes of the video then you are stuck with the fact that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before Jesus returns. That being the case, you have to rethink your interpretations even though it goes against your beliefs. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues I have refuted it time and time again, and you haven't responded to many of my points.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink If you can't see that 1 Pet. 1:9 tells us that faith ceases when Jesus returns to bring salvation (Heb.9:28) then I can't say any more on that. However our blessed hope is in the appearing of Jesus (Tit. 2:13) and it cannot be denied that once seen our hope will cease as Rom. 8:24 says, "hope that is seen is no hope at all". This can only mean that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before Jesus returns.
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues At the Second Coming, there may still be room for faith for events to come, like delivering up the kingdom to God. It is taking a leap to say that faith is no more. The Bible doesn't come out and say that. Thomas saw the resurrected Lord, and believed. There are those who do not see, yet still believe.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink As I said, if you can't convince yourself that faith ceases you are still left with the hopeless task of extending hope past Jesus' appearance. But there is a point about faith you have missed. Everyone agrees that the gifts to the church cease when Jesus returns ... well faith IS one of those gifts (1 Cor. 12:9). The only way around that is to say that the gifts won't disappear but will go on eternally. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Knowledge does not disappear. It is completed. Perhaps the same happens to other gifts. I prefer not to speculate, but you seem a little more eager to speculate and treat it as doctrine. I can see how you reach your conclusion about hope ceasing, for example, but I think you need to take a little leap beyond what is written to get there, especially when it comes to faith. I prefer not to speculate.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink My friend, you refuse to accept what is written and then suggest that I "take a little leap beyond what is written". Haven't you read what God tells us in 1 Cor. 4:6 - "Do not go beyond what is written". Who am I to listen to ... you or God? God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
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@christianissues Sorry for the confusion. Let me rephrase. When I wrote, "but I think you need to take a little leap beyond what is written to get there"-- I meant in order to arrive at your conclusions, it is necessary to take a little leap beyond what the verses actually meant. I was not recommending that you take a leap beyond what was written.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink Oops! Sorry I misinterpreted what you said. I thought you were telling me to go beyond rather than saying I was going beyond ... sorry, old age. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues And I caught this message after i wrote my reply. These little text boxes are an awkard form of communication, aren't they?
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink They sure are. You ought to see me get lost in forums. People must think I am ignoring them as I often can't find their message so I broadcast on telling of my age and ignorance ... hope that pacifies them. YouTube messages also seem to get some sort of crossover as I see some of your messages that I (don't think) I have responded to. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues I see no basis in the passage for saying 'knowledge' is some specific kind of knowledge that does not include our knowledge of the word. The fact that we know about Christ and can spiritually know about Him is supernatural. We know by the Spirit. Peter knew Jesus was the Christ by revelation. Knowledge does not cease in the passage. Knowing in part is replaced with knowing as we are known. The 'in part' is replaced with 'that which is perfect.' We will not have imperfect gifts.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink I have to agree with you. Our God is a God of FAITH and without FAITH it is impossible to please him. Now our faith in believing for the second coming will cease, this does not demnand that all faith for other things as you say for things to come will cease. And as far as tongues having been done away with when the Bible was cannonized is absolute hogwash. I speak in other tongues as the Holy Spirit gives me utterance pretty much on a daily basis. This promise is to all who believe
AMATTEROFTRUTH 1 year ago
@AMATTEROFTRUTH Saying that Faith and Hope continue eternally is redefining the biblical terms. Tit 2:13 says that our blessed hope is in the appearance of Jesus and hope that is seen is no hope at all (Rom 8:24). What scripture do you use to define heavenly faith and hope? We are going to be changed into the likeness of Jesus - what sort of faith and hope does He have? Will some have weak faith and little hope? Not at all, our faith and hope will be fulfilled in Christ. God bless,
Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues I totally agree with you Mick that our hope and faith that we are using in this present world for our redemption will be fulfilled and completed, because we will have obtained that which we were believing for, namely eternal life with our Lord and our God. But the Bible says that God does not change, so if God desires, no requires that we use faith in this life and world, then why would God suddenly change and cause ALL faith for any and everything in the world to come?
AMATTEROFTRUTH 1 year ago
@AMATTEROFTRUTH God doesn't change but we will when our flesh becomes spirit. Faith and hope are sorely needed for our salvation but not when we are spirit beings. 1 Pet. 1:9 says we are "receiving the END of your faith, even the salvation of your souls" - our faith ends with our final salvation. Just as tongues, prophecy and knowledge had a limited lifespan in the church, faith and hope are limited to our lifetime. You redefine faith and hope only to match your doctrine. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Faith is the evidence of things not seen, but that doesn't prove if something is seen there cannot be faith. A black oil spot is evidence of which parking space is mine, even my van is not seen. When my van comes back, the spot is still there, and it is still evidence that my van exists, even though my van is there and you can see it exists. Seeing does not eliminate the need for faith. That is why Thomas could see and believe in the resurrection.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@christianissues All this is a tangent. If faith and hope do cease at the end-- if that is Paul's argument-- there is still no evidence that knowledge in part and prophecy in part cease BEFORE the Lord's return in the passage. Just because you make a chart and say one thing happens before another does not make it so.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
christianissues, you can't be trapped unless there is a problem with your theory. I was only trying to point out a contradiction in your theory. and I am sure you saw it too. Until you can give me a reasonable answer I won't go to the other problems in your theory. Blessings to you and yours.
justin202101315 1 year ago
@justin202101315 I can't see the hole you see. The knowledge and prophecy given to Paul made him practically a living New Testament. God gave him so much, he wrote us the letters and then he 'put away' prophecy and knowledge. The word 'put away' is the same word translated 'cease or vanish away' in vs.8. The connection between the 3 items of v.11 and the 3 items of v.8 is glaringly obvious and was even obvious to the writer of an 1871 commentary, well before the tongues issues of today. GB Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues There was speaking in tongues in the 1840s, and an 1871 commentary could quite easily be reactionary. Warfield's was. Paul will put away childish things when the perfect comes. At that time, he will know as he is known. He was not alive for the completion of scripture to experience this, which rules out that option, but he will be alive at the resurrection.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@justin202101315 Sorry I couldn't it fit it all in one reply. Forgive me if I repeat myself but I have a lousy memory and often have several conversations going at once. One thing I would ask of you. Refute the first two minutes of the video. If that is wrong then you will have me chewing things over. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@justin202101315 I sure agree that the gifts are not childish but Paul talks about putting away these things as they were needed for the infant church until the Bible was available, that is complete (The word perfect can be translated 'complete'). But we will continue to differ on interpretation of these verses because we have different starting points. If you can show me error in the first two minutes of the video then I will have to rethink my position. Can you do that? God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
christianissues, are you saying that Paul has access to the complete NT (orally or through written letters) by the time he wrote the letter to the Philippians?
justin202101315 1 year ago
@justin202101315 He died before Rev was written. However, note the personal, first person pronoun in v.11. He said that he personally put these things away as he went on to maturity ... if this does not refer to tongues, prophecy and knowledge then what does it refer to? The connection is glaringly obvious. Also, rather than trying to trap me why not give me an alternative explanation of why the perfect only does away with ONLY prophecy and knowledge. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues This refers to Paul's natural childhood. Like all of us, we put away childish things when we grow up. Paul uses this analogy to describe what it will be like in the future. Notice the next verses: NOW we know in part. He is still in the childish stage. But THEN-- the future after the perfect comes-- we will know even as we are known. Paul uses his past life experience as an analogy for the change that will come to him at the coming of the perfect.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink That does not add up to me. Firstly, v.13 is smack in the middle of speaking of supernatural gifts so it's sensible to connect it's contents with gifts. Secondly, the 3 items of v.13 are glaringly connected to the 3 items of v.8. Further still, the Greek word for 'put away' is exactly the same word translated 'cease' in v.8. These points add up to tell us that the infant church was going to 'put away' the 'childish' gifts as it matured - the Bible would replace them. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Sure, he is talking about gifts. He is saying we won't use these partial gifts and have partial knowledge, but they will be replaced with something complete, when 'the perfect' comes. When perfection comes, imperfection is no more. When corruption puts on incorruption, immortality is swallowed up of life. Nothing in the Bible indicates that the gift of prophecy is 'childish.' There is no reason to read that into this passage.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink The first 2 minutes of the video show that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before Jesus returns. I can't see my way around that and I have tried. Another point is that ONLY prophecy and knowledge are said to be in part and disappear when the perfect comes. This is verified when we see that the verb used for the ceasing of tongues is Middle Voice and this tell us that tongues will cease at a different time to prophecy and knowledge which have a different Greek voice. GB Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues The middle voice thing sounds like a spurious argument. Middle is something like reflexive or something like 'end by itself.' I do not see how this would tell which ends first. And you haven't shown anything in the passage that indicates that tongues, knowledge, and prophecy will cease BEFORE the coming of the perfect. Early in the letter (1:7) Paul writes, "So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink You seem to have missed what I am saying. The first 2 mins of the video say that tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease before JESUS returns, NOT before the perfect comes. I can see now why we are going in circles and you are not understanding what I am saying. Sorry if I have added to the confusion. As I said before, if you can refute the first 2 mins of the video then you will have me rehashing things because that is where I talk about the ceasing BEFORE JESUS COMES. God bless Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues I have pointed this out earlier, either here or on GC forums. In verse 11, Paul said he put away childish things--past tense. It already happened. You take this as proof that tongues, prophecy, and knowledge would be put away b4 faith and hope cease. (I don't say faith will cease. I think you are taking an unsupported leap here in your reasoning. Thomas saw AND believed.) We know Paul had NOT stopped speaking in tongues because in ch 14 he says he spoke in tongues.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink Paul spoke in tongues because tongues was still a gift at the time he wrote. Respectfully, you are entirely missing the timing sequence that I show in the video .. absolutely missing it. Six things exist, three cease & three continue on then two more cease when Jesus returns and one continues forever. The timing sequence shows that the first three cease before Jesus returns. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues And again, there is nothing to indicate that incomplete knowledge (replaced with complete knowledge) and incomplete prophecy will cease until the coming of the perfect. Your time line is an assumption, not something from the text of scripture. It is eisegesis-- reading an idea into the text. The text does not teach faith ceases either. Thomas shows us it is possible to see and believe. Seeing does not mean faith no longer exists.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@christianissues There is nothing here that creates a time line that indicates these gifts will cease B4 the perfect comes. There is nothing that puts a date that these things have ceased. It is not knowledge that ceases, but knowledge in part that ceases. 'That which is in part' ceases, and 'that which is perfect' comes. The passage does not talk about faith ceasing. There is nothing in the passage about tongues, prophecy and knowledge ending before Christ returns in this passage.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@christianissues I take 'I put away childish things' to refer to Paul's literal coming to adulthood. He uses this as analogy for the future. Our life during this time is like chidhood in comparison to after the resurrection. In comparison, our speech, knowledge, and understanding will be childish to what we have after the resurrection. Much of what we have in the Bible is Paul's knowledge from this time period, so what is coming is very great.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@christianissues While they were waiting for Jesus to come, Paul was expecting the saints to exercise spiritual gifts, and tongues and prophecy were certainly among the gifts he mentioned in the chapter. Paul brings up topics and expands on them later in the book. I Cor. 1:7 gives us a good window into what Paul talks about in chapters 13-17. We exercise these gifts till the perfect comes-- while we are waiting for Jesus to get back and our bodies to be transformed or resurrected.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
christianissues, are you saying that Paul has access to the complete NT by the time he wrote the letter to the Philippians?
justin202101315 1 year ago
christianissues, you mentioned that without the completed scriptures, a person's understanding would be poor. You also said that Paul matured in his day. How could Paul mature in his day if he has not the complete scriptures? Is there a contradiction? There is no contradiction if you say that a christian could mature EVEN if he has poor understanding of scriptures.
justin202101315 1 year ago
@justin202101315 Firstly, without the New Testament, understanding would be very poor. However, Paul and the Apostles passed the New Testament knowledge on both orally and through written letters and, as you know, those letters became the New Testament. Phil. 3:15 tells us that Paul was mature and we are told to imitate him as he imitated Christ (1 Cor. 11:1). I can't see how a person could be mature in the knowledge of the Word Himself without having the complete Word of God. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Paul wrote to the Ephesians 'that by reading this, you might understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ." The epistles are a supernatural transfer of the divine knowledge of the faith the apostles already possessed-- the faith once delivered to the saints-- knowledge possessed before the canon was written down. Yet, in the sense Paul describes in I Corinthians, even this knowledge is childish in comparison to the fuller knowledge of Christ that awaits us.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@christianissues We are waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our bodies. We shall be like Him for we shall see Him as he is.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
There is nothing in the passage that indicates tongues and prophecy will cease before the coming of the perfect. The passage does not say that knowledge and prophecy will cease. It is 'that which is part' that will be done away. Paul knew in part. But when the perfect comes, Paul will 'know even as I am known.' The knowledge he had in this current age is partial. When he is transformed at the coming of Christ, he will still have knowledge, just more complete.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink Hello there. Tongues has nothing to do with the coming of the perfect. If you look carefully at vs.9-10 you will see that the perfect only does away with prophecy and knowledge. This is an important point. Why only prophecy and knowledge? Simply because the Bible is entirely prophecy and knowledge. Tongues was mentioned in v.8 but dropped from the verses dealing with the perfect and that is because tongues has nothing to do with today's perfect, complete Bible. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink When you study v.11 you will see that Paul is saying that he 'put away' tongues, prophecy and knowledge as he went on to maturit. The connection between the 3 items in v.8 and the 3 items in v.13 is unmistakable. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Rather, Paul compares childish speech, knowledge, and understanding that he had at that time with that of a child's. Partial knowledge (and perhaps we might infer prophecy) will be done away with, but Paul will have more complete knowledge and know as he is known. Perhaps the same is true of prophecy. Paul will do away with childish things when he becomes a man, which corresponds with the coming of the perfect, at the resurrection.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink The verb in v.11 which is translated 'put away' is the same verb used in v.8 where it is translated 'cease'. Clearly Paul is referring to the cessation of speaking, which is tongues, thinking, which is knowledge and reasoning, which is prophecy. These things were said to be childish because they were for the infant church. As I said before, show me where the first 2 minutes of the video are wrong ... it's simply a logical conclusion of the English language. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues He will put these things away when the perfect comes. His speech, knowledge, and understanding will be like an adult's at time time, in comparison to his speech, knowledge and understanding during the time he wrote portions of the New Testament, which were like a child's understanding by comparison.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink I agree entirely that, without the completed scriptures, a person's understanding would be poor. The word 'perfect' in 1 Cor. 13:10 can be translated 'complete' and this is further proof that the perfect is referring to the completed scriptures. Also, Paul matured in his day ... not 2000 years future. But, I would ask you again to examine the first two minutes of the video. If my conclusion is wrong there then you will sway me to re-examine my position. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink 1Co 13:9-10 say, "For we know [knowledge] in part, and we prophesy [prophecy] in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away". From these two verses you can see that the 'in part' is done away with when the perfect (complete) comes. Also 1 Cor. 13:11 says that Paul will 'put away' tongues, prophecy and knowledge as he matured. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Maybe we are getting closer on the issue, since you now see these things are going away when the perfect comes rather than before it. But again, the passage is CRYSTAL CLEAR that KNOWLEDGE WILL NOT PASS AWAY. Rather knowing in part will be replaced with something greater, knowing as one is known. So it is not knowledge that passes away (nonsensical if you think about it) but 'in part' that passage away. Partial knowledge is replaced by perfect/mature/complete knowledge.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink I don't agree that it is nonsensical for knowledge to pass away when you realise that it is talking about supernatural knowledge ... the discussion is regarding supernatural gifts, not head knowledge. The knowledge spoken of is like the knowledge Paul passed on to us in the Bible ... like how to run a church etc. Besides that it is nonsensical to say that normal knowledge will ever pass away ... otherwise it would mean that we would then be brian dead. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
This are enough reasons to repent. it is very evil to twist the word of god.
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
@Aussiedler77 My friend, if you can show me the error in just the first 2 minutes of the video then you will go a long way in convincing me that the gifts are still around. The first part of the video is simply talking about ceasing and remaining and it is plain English. Something can't be said to cease and then still be around to cease later on. Please, watch the video again ... we don't need spiritual insight to see that things can't cease and still remain. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
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@christianissues I am not your friend. How can I be your friend, if you twist the word of god? I have shown you that you twist the word of god, I will not convince you of anything. What good is it, to convince you of gifts, of you don't believe the word of god? You have to believe the word of god. as long as you don't do that, you are cursed.
Please don't call yourself christian, if you don't believe the bible.
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
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Aussiedler77 1 year ago
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Aussiedler77 1 year ago
@christianissues I am not your friend. How can I be your friend, if you twist the word of god? I have shown you that you twist the word of god (In my other comments if you scroll the page down, I guess you havent read them), I will not try to convince you of anything again. What good is it, to convince you of gifts, of you don't believe the word of god? You have to believe the word of god.
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
@Aussiedler77 You still haven't refuted the first two minutes of the video. Here is is simply put - There are six men, Mr. Tongues, Mr. Prophecy, Mr. Knowledge, Mr. Faith, Mr. Hope and Mr. Love. Mr. T, P & K die (cease to be) so only Mr. F, H & L remain alive. Then Mr. F & H die leaving Mr. Love to live on. So, we can see that Mr. T, P & K die and cease to be before Mr. F & H. In the same way, Tongues, Prophecy and Knowledge have already ceased leaving Faith & Hope to cease when Jesus returns.
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues The video makes a lot of assumptions and assertions not supported by the text. It is hard to paste it all in a little box like this. I am going to attempt to post a video response if it is accepted, 'Did the gifts cease? That which is Perfect ' which deals with the issues in the chapter in more depth. The coming of the perfect that Paul mentions here is part of a longer argument that he expands on further in chapter 15 in the discussion of the resurrection at the parousia.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
3 (contin.) The ministries are UNTIL HIS CHURCH will be PERFECT (same word as in Cor 13). From that we are very far away. Therefore we need the gifts now in this time. When the church is perfect, Jesus will com efor his bride without spots and wrinkles.
This is the WORD OF GOD. You cannot change it. The Word of God does not contradict itself. According to your interpretation it would contradict. The gifts are for the perfecting of the church. He will have a pure bride!
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
3. In Eph 4:11-13 it is written: He GAVE some apostles, prophets, ... TILL
This speaks of the exact time, when there will be ministries (and with the ministries also gifts) of the spirit will operate on earth. He gives this Operations, till something happens:
Eph 4,13 TILL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT man...(continued on next post)
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
2. In Eph 4 we read the purpose, for what the Holy Spirit gives us the gifts and ministries. First, the scriptures says in Eph 4,8 that Jesus died on the cross so that we can have spiritual gifts. If you deny the gifts or interpret in the scriptures that we don't need them, you are actually disregarding the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary. That is not a light thing, that speaks of a very evil heart! There you must repent.
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
1. How can you see FACE TO FACE with the bible? That is impossible. so the "Perfect" cannot be "scriptures" or "Bible" - it is only possible when JESUS HAS COME. That is the time when we don't need spiritual gifts. Until he hasn't come, we have the HOLY SPIRIT, who gives us gifts as he choses.
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
this is from below. repent!
Aussiedler77 1 year ago
@Aussiedler77 I will most certainly repent of my error if you can show it to me ... scripturally that is and not emotionally.
christianissues 1 year ago
If you do a word study on "perfect" it never mentions the scritpures. Peter wrote "we have a more surer word of prophecy because we know Him." You are applying isogeses when you come up with a new concept based on one word. You are directly translating word for word "perfect" as Bible, or completion of scriptures. But no such concept exists that I know of, and the word "perfect" usually means "perfecting of the saints", "being made perfect". Never means scripture.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono You have missed very important points in the video. The Bible is called "the perfect law of liberty" in James 1:23-25. The word perfect in those verses is the same word used in 1 Cor. 13:9-10. In those verses in James the Bible is also likened to a mirror just as it is in 1 Cor. 13:11. Look closely, the Bible fits all the verses in 1 Cor 13:8-13. One more thing, the word perfect in 1 Cor. 13:9-10 can be translated "complete". God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues The Bible was not complete at the time James wrote his epistle. So at that time prophecy, and knowledge had not ceased. So if James is saying the Bible is perfect then, then there would be no need for knowledge and prophecy then. I see alot of circular reasoning, and clever assumptions that don't amount to anything. We are still back to your flaw in 1 Corinthains 8-10 too.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono My friend you overlook the simple fact that the Bible is full of prophecy. Don't you think that God knew what He was talking about when He, through James, called the Bible the perfect law of liberty? ... that is, the perfect law of freedom in Christ, the gospel. Please study v.11 and you will see that Paul clearly said that tongues, prophecy and knowledge were put away as he went on to maturity ... therefore this occurred in the 1st century. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
They will cease when the perfect has come. These things
should be easy to understand. We know the difference
between the temporal and the eternal. Paul shows that only
Love is eternal, and is greater than faith and hope.
No distinction is made between Faith, and Hope, and the
gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowlede. And that makes
sense because one is a spritual gift, the other is a
virtue.
harmono 1 year ago
Paul even makes this personal saying in verse 11 "when I was a child I spake as a child".
Take into consideration what Paul writes to the Galatians:
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
harmono 1 year ago
Paul writes in verse 13 "now abides faith, hope, love".
He doesn't say faith, and hope, will cease anywhere in the text. One could imply that hope, and faith will cease when Christ comes, but that is not in the text anywhere.
harmono 1 year ago
It is a great leap to say that "that which is perfect is come" means the Bible is that which is perfect.
The Bible usually says what it means and means what it says, and is written in context.
No prophecy of scripture is subject to private interpretation.
harmono 1 year ago
The only part of the Bible that I know of that says the Bible prophecy will be sealed is in Daniel 9:24. The verse in the Book of revelation about adding or taking away from this book is talkign about the book of Revelation itself. John is instructed to "write these things in a book". John didn't write the whole Bible.
The word Bible means "library". It's a library of scrolls that were collected into one book hundreds of years later. The perfect did not come when the Bible was bound.
harmono 1 year ago
You just now added to the Bible. No where in the context does it say that the completion of the Bible ends tongues and prophecy. You just add to the context, (isogesis) and read into it your preconcieved notions. We still need knowledge, so the perfect has not come. Knowledge is not written word, otherwise it would say.
So we don't need the Bible any more when we mature and are perfect? That's very scary. You need to continue to gain knowledge, because the perfect has not come.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono You have misinterpreted what I said here also. Only prophecy and knowledge ceased when the Bible was completed. Tongues has nothing to do with the completion of the Bible. If you watch Part C carefully you will see that I say that we come to maturity through the Bible, so I am not so scary after all. Please watch the videos carefully as you are totally misinterpreting what I am saying. God bless my friend. Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues where is the distinction made between prophecy, and tongues int he text? So there is another problem. You make a distinction in time, that is not there. You say prophecy, and knowledge have ceased when the perfect has come, but not tongues, but the Bible says all three, not just two will cease when the perfect has come.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono You need to look closer at the Bible. It clearly says that the coming of the perfect will do away with only prophecy and knowledge. Note that in verses 9-10 tongues is not mentioned. Only prophecy and knowledge are mentioned in these verses. Check it carefully and ask yourself why. God bless, Mick
jacmam1 1 year ago
@jacmam1 jac I took a close look and what I found was context. you mention verse 9 and 10, but the context starts in verse 8. And in verse 8 it includes tongues among knowledge, and prophecy that will cease. It would be more consistent, and more logical that all three will cease when the perfect comes, especially in light of the context of chapt 12, and 14. Don't use tunnel vision and pick and chose when reading. There is context there that is being entirely missed.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono Today's tongue is an idol this is why its hard to for people to accept that tongues have ceased. You guys need to follow what Paul wrote by the Holy Spirit and pursue a more excellet way, love. Love is relatioship with Jesus Christ, abiding in Him that you might bear fruit that can only enable you to love another person. Some even believe they have the Holy Spirit but decieve themselves and live like the devil, what a foolishness.
Hehatesugly 1 year ago
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@Hehatesugly You don't know anything about me, so don't get personal. Let's keep this discussion about the Bible.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono The message from jacmam1 was actually from me. Here it is again ... You need to look closer at the Bible. It clearly says that the coming of the perfect will do away with ONLY prophecy and knowledge. Note that in verses 9&10 tongues is not mentioned. Only prophecy and knowledge are mentioned in these two verses. Tongues is in verse 8 but is excluded from verses 9&10 Check it carefully and ask yourself why ... there is an answer. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
@christianissues Verse 9 and 10 are not the whole Bible. You need to read it in context. Just above in verse 8 it does mention tongues. The very widespread "cessation' of tongues teaching is based on verse 8. I agree with the cessationists that all three cease at the same time, but I don't agree on when that is or will be. It's a big jump to say the "perfect' is the Bible. A careful word study shows that "perfect" usually has to do with personally being made perfect.
harmono 1 year ago
@harmono Yes, the widespread teaching is as you say, but it is wrong. God dropped tongues from the discussion of the coming of the perfect because the Bible is made up of just prophecy and knowledge and has nothing to do with tongues. At the time of writing of 1 Cor, prophecy and knowledge were said to be 'in part' because the Bible itself was still 'in part' . The word 'perfect' can be translated 'complete' and that describes today's Bible which cannot be added to. God bless, Mick
christianissues 1 year ago
You ALL are a bunch of Holy Spirit Blaspheming demons. Satan knows just how to twist scripture up to have you foolish people calling that which is Holy evil. Tongue is not my idol. The real evidence of the Holy Spirit is LOVE. But forsake not tongues. It has not ceased. You folks need to train your demons to stay out of grown folks business. Shut up talking to me.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 I often ask the Lord why people are so eager to die clinging to the error of talking in tongue today and would not bother to find out, first, what the purpose of tongue is and why it had to stop. The reason is simply due to idolatory. People want a god they can feel and force into submitting to their will instead of seeking the fountain of living water. They want an idol they can cling onto and say " I have the Holy Spirit" Thus, they dig for themselves Wells that hold no water.
readjohnchpt15 1 year ago
@readjohnchpt15 Since the apostles spoke in tongues, did miracles, and ministered in other gifts of the Holy Spirit, do you consider them to be idolators? I can't help but think your idea of Christianity is very different from what the apostles experienced in the first century.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 I believe in speaking in tongues and all the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in the Bible. But do you really think this approach is going to help anyone? Do you really think the posters are not humans, but rather demons who have committed the unpardonable sin?
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink That wasn't my approach originally. They sort of pushed me into that direction, talking down to me. If they want to continue to call that which is Holy an act of satan, then...oh well. They're set in their beliefs and the only thing that can help them is the Spirit. Someone told me the devil made me speak in tongue. Thats the spirit of antichrist, the spirit of satan, who knows scripture better than they do, and can twist it as he wills. All he needs is an audience. THEM.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
I've spoken in tongue. I've witnessed others speak in tongue followed by someone who interpreted. You telling me, the devil made me do it? The Holy Spirit is still with us and so are His Gifts. He is not here Giftless. And the purpose of tongues is still for the Holy Spirit to decide when it's needed. As in all gifts they are led by Him. Itching ears will find a scratch. And that which is perfect is Jesus, not the Bible.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 Yes- the Devil made you talk the nonesense tongue because tongue have ceased. Pursue a more excellennt way as directed in 1 Cor 13. A more excellent way is the way of bearing fruit that glorifies God John 15.
In Jn 15:1, the Lord made it clear that "Any branch in me that bears no fruit, I will cut off" The Lord means what he said. He is speaking to all of you who do not pursue Love but are caught-up in Satan's lie of fake unholy ghost. The real tongue have ceased.
BelovedSheep 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep Your post is incredibly foolish. You don't know where some stranger on the Internet's tongues came from. Based on some false teachings you have accepted, you say it came from the Devil. What did Christ say to His opponents when they said that the Spirit He did His works by was Beelzebub, the prince of devils? He warned them that whoever spoke against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this age or the age to come. They erred by calling the Holy Spirit the prince of devils.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink Hi Dear, I am glad that it made you angry so you might take it to God in prayer. The Christian life is too precious waste speaking absolute nonesense.
BelovedSheep 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 Watch what you say young fella. The Word of God is Perfect. This teaching is absolutely correct. I can only bet that tongue has become your idol. The purpose of tongue is fulfiled and tongue ceased. Kick your tongue idol and "Present yourself a living sacrifice fully acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service" Rom 12:1, and abide in His Love "Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." Romans 12:2. Burn your tongue Idol.
fastmay 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1May the Lord deliver these confused tongue-talking phonies. Who is this Pagan that dared to say that the Bible, God's Word, who is the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ Himself, is not perfect?
gladmenarenotGod 1 year ago
Because you have scriptures in which he wrote down his God-given thoughts, speech, and understanding? That does not make sense. How could prophecy have ceased if the 2 witnesses will prophesy? What of the prophets referred to in Revelation?
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink The Two Witness will, like all Christians, be witnessing (ie prophesying) about Jesus. They can't bring new prophecy as Rev.22:18-19 forbids it. The video Speaking In Tongues Part 3 talks about the the prophecy sealed when the Seven Thunders spoke.
christianissues 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink Prophesy today is forth-telling which means the Gospel, the testimony or Witness of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is what the 2 witnesses will do, they will testify of Jesus. Fore-telling, which is God's plan of Salvation, did cease and so did tongue. People perish for lack of knowledge. If you do not understand Scriptures why don't you ask wisdom of God and not lean on your own understanding. The Lord said "The heart is deceitful above all things, who can know it"
DiscernAllThings 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings I take it you disagree with the idea in the video that prophecy has ceased. I suggest you do a bit deeper digging into the meaning of 'prophecy' in scripture.
1. The Greek word for 'prophecy' is used to translate the Hebrew word for prophecy, so simply taking a potential interpretation of the Greek morphemes is not sufficient.
2. Prophets in the OT spoke by revelation, often saying "Thus saith the Lord" followed by a message from God.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings
3. The NT tells us that OT prophets spake as 'moved by the Holy Ghost.'
4. The example we have in Acts of a prophet prophesying starts with "Thus saith the Holy Ghost.'
5. Paul distinguishes between gifts of prophesying and teaching (Rm. 12) and between teachers, prophets and evangelists (I Cor. 12, Eph. 4:11.).
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink If you prophesy, you will accurately handle the word of God, telling someone about Jesus Christ without decieving them such as telling them to speak gibberish tongue, this is deception. Only the Holy Spirit can open a person's mind to His Word or else one remains in darkness & just argue & argue what they just don't understand & also lead others astray. This is why there are many false prophet & false believers today, they will NOT abide in the Vine, which is the more excellent way
DiscernAllThings 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings What I have written, I have backed up with the word of God. I do ask God for wisdom. As for calling gifts of the Spirit described in the Bible 'gibberish', that is not a respectful or spiritual way of describing God's gifts.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink If you asked God for wisdom He would have helped you understand that "tongues of angels" is a rebuke to the nonsense people speak today.which started in Corinth, b/c there is nothing like tthe tongue/ language of Angels. Anyone who is born again understand that prophesy is telling people about Jesus, He is the reason we exist & prophesy. Rev 19:10 "If I be lifted up, I will drawall men unto me" Sorry, No one can mock God. Ask that you might propesy & save your neighbours.
DiscernAllThings 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings It seems you are wise in your own eyes. If you will notice, I have never said that telling people about Jesus is not or cannot be prophesying. Prophesying involves speaking or communicating and moved by the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Spirit testifies about Christ. It is also possible to testify about Christ without being moved of the Spirit, as may heretics have done throughout history.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings I do not mind continuing a conversation with you if you wish. But if you want to continue, please drop the condescending super-spiritual attitude. You imply you are right because you prayed for wisdom, and that I must not have prayed for wisdom because I believe something different. The irony here is that I am going by scripture, and you seem to rely on a kind of revelatory wisdom. I believe in revelatory wisdom, but you seem to be promoting a cessationist position.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink Try to study the meaning of prophesy. Invest some time in study, this is where your problem lies. Prophesy has 2 types, (1) Foretelling & (2) Forthtelling. This teacher explained it on Parts 2 & 3. When you've understood the true meaning of Prophesy, then we will have a dialogue. You can't just rip Scriptures out of context & intimidate me to believe that you what you say is Scriptural & what I say is..?? Ask the Lord to give you wisdom, its FREE,
DiscernAllThings 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings I don't see where you get that I am intimidating you. I do see you doing the tactic of implying that your 'opponent' lacks wisdom you have, rather than focusing on dialog. I do pray for wisdom.You may too.But don't assume you have all of it. I have spent many hours on the subject of prophecy, going through a concordance, seeing how the Greek and Hebrew words are used, studying the usage of the words in context. Scripture does not divide prophecy into 'foretell' and 'forthtell'.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings The Bible shows prophecies about the past, present, and future state of things. We talk about past, present, and future, and so does God. True prophecy is whatever the Lord wants to say through someone. God's Spirit moves people to speak, sing, play instruments, and communicate in other ways (e.g. burning hair or wearing iron yokes.) The Spirit testifies of Christ. The prophecies of the New and Old Testament do point to Christ.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink Brother, you have a long way to go. Write me when you gain more understanding and we will talk. May I say that the delusion of today's tongue-talking iand misunderstanding if Spiritual giftes s very strong .For this reason, I will not wrangle over words becasue you have become rude and abusive to those who seek to snatch you out of the Jaws of Satan. This is always the case. Thank You.
DiscernAllThings 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings I have not spoken rudely or abusively to you. I did point out that you come off as condescending and as if you consider yourself to be wiser than the person you are talking to. If you'd like to talk in the future, that's fine. Just leave the condescending attitude at the door. It doesn't get you anywhere.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink They actually come off as a bunch of scribes and Pharisees. I know when I got filled with the Holy Spirit after a three day fast, that when the Spirit made intercession for me, it was not the spirit of satan. I cried and groaned for 10 minutes at least. My mind didn't know what I was saying to God but my heart did. I later spoke in tongues and witnesses others with translation. No matter how they interpret scripture to suit them, I KNOW tongues have not ceased.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 -It is blasphemy to artribute to the Holy Spirit what demonic forces worked and is still working in you. One sign that a man is born again is desire for God's word, Period 1 Peter 2 :2, and not talking gibberish moaning and groaning demonic tongues. What you did for 10 minutes was a typical demonic estacy that took over your mind. This is exactly the same demonic eratic estatic behavior that the Corintians brought into the Church causing Paul to rebuke them..
BelovedSheep 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep What a hypocrite. We know we're Born Again because we become a new creature. We're born of the Spirit from above so the Spirit dwells in us. We have a change of heart as a spiritual transformation takes place. The Spirit in us tells us what's real and what's garbage. YOU speak garbage. Cult members are in God's Word probably even more than you. Are they born again? You continually call that which is Holy, demonic forces. The Spirit isn't in you. You're one of those of (Matt.7:23)
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep (cont) who He never knew because you were never born into His Family. You have a nerve and talk as a fool. One of those more Holy than thou pharisees. Committing the unforgivable sin of speaking evil of The Holy Spirit, because of your misinterpretation of scripture. You couldn't even get 1 Pet. 2:2 right. And obviously know nothing of Romans 8:26 as you call my groanings an act of satan. I hope your dog doesn't follow you out in a lightning storm. You hypocrites disgust me. :-P
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 Glad you got angry, I hope your anger provokes you to seek God's truth that you might be set you free. Pursue a better gift that you may prophesy. Those who spoke real tongues were filled with the Holy Spirit and preached the Gospel to unbelievers who heard them. What you spoke in your estasy to yourself moaning and groaning, is of demonic spirits. Tongues have CEASED. Eternity is foreever, make sure you are in the faith. God bless you.
BelovedSheep 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 I believe you have gotten so drunk with your new wine and foolish tongues that you have lost your silly mind and opened your sick mouth to say that God's Word is not perfect. You have so commited fornication with demonic spirits that you have gone stone mad.
The Word of God is Jesus Christ who is also the Holy Spirit John 1: 1-3. This is the first knowledge given every true born again beliver causing them to trust God. The demonic spirit speaking tru you have driven you crazy.
askonething 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep The case of the UNFORGIVABLE SIN is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30. Blasphemy may be generally defined as defiant irreverence. We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or (willfully degrading things relating to Him). It is also denying Him good that we should attribute to Him. The Pharisees, witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that He was possessed by Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). THIS SOUND FAMILIAR?
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 It sounds famliar that Paul ponted out that you'd rather speak 5 words that you understand than ten thousand words in gibberish tongue because Satan uses your tongue to throw curses at the Almighty and you willingly allow him to do so.
BelovedSheep 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep Me, angry?? Not at all. I don't bite my tongue about hypocrites and modern day pharisees who walk around claiming Jesus then call gifts of the Holy Spirit works of satan. Discern when satan immitates vs. The Holy Spirit at work. Prophecies will be accomplished, imperfect knowledge will vanish and become complete, and tongues will cease for there are no unbelievers. There's no need for any of these in the state of perfection. That state of being with Him Face to Face.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep A house divided against itself shall not stand. It's impossible for the Holy Spirit to curse The Holy Spirit thru His gift of tongues. I have not spoken to you in one word of another tongue. I speak only what I assume you can understand, in plain english, avoiding big words, because...And I have not once cursed The Almighty. You, in your perfectly understandable english, is the one dishonoring and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Silense yourself before the Great I AM does it for you.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep It is Done.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1- What comes out of your mouth today is NOT from the Holy Spirit of God. The deception is that the Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit will do NOTHING of its own, but will only do that which God sent Him to do. Don't jump the fence. Get on your knees and cry to the Lord Jesus Christ ask Him to deliver you from today's tongue delusion. I agree with the other brother that tongue-talking have become your idol and snare. Do you see how difficult it is for you to free yourself from it?
BelovedSheep 1 year ago
@BelovedSheep It appears that you are the ones who needs to fall on your face and cry out for forgiveness of blaspheme. If it's not to late. Don't bother asking forgiveness if you persist. You're damned eternally. You know nothing of me to say tongues is my idol and snare. Tongues is a gift of the HS which you speak evil of. Its NOT required. It is NOT evidence of the HS, but Love. It is NOT a sign of spiritual maturity. It IS a gift of the HS and not to be blasphemed. You ALL HAVE BEEN WARNED.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 Despite overwhelming Scriptural evidence, you still hold on to your Idol of speaking in tongues. This is why it is a delusion.
BelovedSheep 1 year ago
@DeeStinger1 Jesus NEVER spoke in tongue. While He moaned and groaned to the Father in the garden of Gethsemane in John 17 before He went to the Cross, He spoke what you and I understood and can identify with, It was written down, you read it and I read it! Who have bewitched you to utter usless blabble and claim its from the Holy Spirit? How long will this generation fool themselves with satan's lie. Are we not supposed to take example from our Lord?
cedarpictures 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings
6. Paul shows a connection between revelation and prophesying in I Corinthians 14. He writes to let the PROPHETS speak two or three and let the other judge. If a REVELATION comes to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all PROPHESY on by one....
Prophesy involves speaking by revelation, under the moving of the Spirit. There is a distinction between evangelistic preaching and prophecy, and teaching and prophecy found in scripture.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink-The Spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus Christ Rev 19:10. Get it dear. Prophesy about Salvation plan of God HAVE CEASED. Prophesy, today is telling someone about Jesus Christ our Lord. This is why Paul said to follow the more excellent way, That's to Abide in the Vine Jn 15. Please read my other responses. A problem with many is that they don't know & will not ask the Lord, they just argue, I used to be that way many years ago. I argued about everything I didn't know.
DiscernAllThings 1 year ago
@DiscernAllThings You still seem to do plenty of arguing. How is it that you say that prophecy is telling someone about Jesus, but not salvation or the plan of God?
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink The prophesy of salvation plan of God is Completed and Ceased. Today, prophesy, "Forthtelling" Is to make Jesus Shine. This is why the Bible said "Study to show yourself approved unto God a workman who need not be ashamed, accurately handling the word of Truth" 2 Tim 2:15. The reason you din't believe that Prophesy is telling people about Jesus is b/c Satan wants you to believe the God is "lucky" to have you & deny that Victory in Jesus is the heart of the Gospel.
DiscernAllThings 1 year ago
Your video assumes a timeline approach to the passage. The last verse ends 'and NOW abideth faith, hope and charity.' He does not say they continue to abide after some point in the future. Paul will experience something that will cause his then-current thoughts, speech, and understanding to be childish in comparison. Is your speech, knowledge, and understanding more mature than Paul's?
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink The NOW in v.13 is not the now of time but the now of argument. Like if I say, "Now, if John and Mary get married, then ... etc etc". Dictionaries and commentaries will verify this. Here is the JFB commentary: “now” does not express time, but opposition, as in 1Co_5:11.
christianissues 1 year ago