STEREO Toms test of Glyn Johns method

[RaychSeldon33]

Hey there! Great sound.... great drumer, too. Which pelusos did you use ?

[basiliobasilio]

Killed 2 birds with 1 stone.

1. Heard a great Glyn Johns method recording

2. Heard a great drum performance.

GREAT JOB!

[IdahoAngler2]

Btw... Great drumming. Smooth triplets!

[IdahoAngler2]

Can you come over and do light shows for my solo's too.

[Evinger]

@IdahoAngler2 HAhahaha! I just noticed that! Too funny. I'd left the four par running in sound-activation mode. oops. ;-)

[PalabraViva3]

Have you ever used this for a live gig?

[Evinger]

@PalabraViva3- to date, no I have not. Usually for live situations the sound tech sets up a spaced pair.

[DANnJORDAN]

how do you get your toms to sound like that?

i have been trying to get that sound for ages

[Evinger]

@DANnJORDAN - tnx! The batter heads are Taye's stock heads, very similar to Remo coated Ambassadors. The sound we got here was a combination of the thin maple shells, coated heads, the room, the position of the mics and taking time to tune!

[CrawfordDrummer]

Is there any other reason this sounds better than the XY config. other than the positioning? such as mic, video, or interface quality? just wondering

[Evinger]

Same mics, same video specs, etc. IMHO It's the wider distance between the mics, the phase relationship, and the room. I suggest you always experiment, but I've always liked this config and ORTF better. Things change with more mics, but those just work better for me with just 3 (one on Bass drum).

[CrawfordDrummer]

Thanks I'm pretty new to using mics but on my kit I got 5 because the mixer can only hold that many but I just use two overheads, snare, hi hat, and bass drum and it's pretty good IMO

And I was just wondering (ik its a noob questions sry!) what's phase and ORTF?

And if you could check out my newest video and give me some tips that'd be killer!

Thanks,

Trevor

[Evinger]

Wow- tough question for me answer but I'll try to explain- and any real sound engineer will probably correct me here- but "Phase" is basically a relationship between two or more sounds, and in this case the time it takes for the drums to reach each of the mics. Keep in mind the room plays a HUGE part in this relationship, with sounds bouncing around the room and into the mics... Depending on the pick-up pattern of the mics, you can run into problems.

[Evinger]

ORTF is one of a few techniques used for mic placement. Do a search for stereo miking techniques. I basically arrived @ this pattern on my own before I learned about it. One day I stood up while still hitting the drums and it sounded great, so I simply placed two pencil mics right there in a V shape, spaced as wide as my ears are on my head. A little trial and error on angles, height, etc. and voila! Then I learned about ORTF (French), and NOS (Dutch) and others like this Glyn Johns.

[foketesz]

Great wrk with this vids, veeery clear and useful!! i'm trying inverting the phase of overheads and every mic facing the top of cymbals and drumheads, and keeping in phase the kick and under snare. The reason being that at the time of hitting the drum, the head moves away from the mic, producing a negative transient in the mic. I find a subtle increase in focus. Anybody tried it? comments? I'd appreciate it!

[Evinger]

Thank you very much for your comments. I like your phase concept but I don't know enough yet to say whether you are on the right track. Any one else care to enlighten us? When recording amps it seems to make sense the air is moving toward the mics... Basically it's always a good idea to check the phase of mics- especially in relation to each other.

[psychobollox]

OMFG...

that is bloody good coverage for four mics!

[BigCheeseMC26280]

In studio I go: kick, snare, toms (hi and floor panned about 66), 2 overheads xy, and a room mic. At home I do Glyn Johns and throw in a snare sometimes...

[spijtig]

nice sound but weird spread

[Evinger]

That's most likely the the Mpeg compression killing the spread.

[phistool]

just curious,what kind of sound do u usually want from the overheads?is it cymbal's sound?toms panning?room sound?thanks

[Evinger]

I try to get a good overall picture of how the kit sounds from the drummer's perspective.

[dcaccavo]

The "Glyn" micing works sometimes, but it can be rather "defocused" - sure, the toms pan, but the snare doesn't focus well, and I sort of like the hat to be off to one side slightly. Wouldn't mind hearing this with the snares turned on, and playing a regular rock beat with fills.

[Evinger]

I agree this technique is not always the "best" way to go, but it's a really good starting point. Adding close mics would help you place things in the soundfield where you prefer to hear them.

My personal favorite set up is similar to ORTF. I plan on doing more tests when I get the chance and will try to add video as you suggested. Thanks for listening and your input. Cheers!

[deanrhodes]

im really impressed with the sounds and quality of this Nice One!!! Check out my recordings !!

[zepvhrule]

What kind of mics are you using? and where?

Thanks

[Evinger]

A Pair of Peluso CEMC6 SDCs 1)directly above the snare about 40 inches above the snare drum. 2) is about 40 inches from the center of the snare diagonally to my left (over my shoulder). The bass drum mic is an Audio Technica AE2500 half in the port facing the beater.

[phistool]

so the hats would sound on centre?

[Evinger]

pretty close. Then you can add other mics to fill out the sound and/or work with the panning of each overhead mic.

[BillyC15]

one of the few youtube videos in stereo

[Evinger]

That's sad. There should be a lot more considering on the visual side we're up to HD now.

[BillyC15]

I agree

[vismund9]

smoooooth

[Evinger]

Cool tnx. Curious to know if these files are actually pushing any energy down in the subwoofer.

[oilertay]

great spead!

[Evinger]

tnx. Did you listen on monitors or headphones? Which kind?

[oilertay]

I listened on my home computer logitech 5.1 speakers. Oh and I meant to say "spread" :P

[leswatts1]

Neat thing about the 179s is the directivity control is continuously variable. So you can go from figure 8 to omni and any combination in between.

I'm liking Dean's sound with those Rodes. Seriously looking into a pair of NT5s. I wonder how they sound on acoustic guitar?

[simonpca]

NT5s sound pretty good on acoustics :) NT3s have some more low end I find. Rode mikes are the way to go! :P

[leswatts1]

Well, we did some tracks this weekend with the glyn johns setup. In general we got a big big sound. I like it.

One problem I had was a really weak hi hat.

I ended up having to put a spot mic on it.

Also, this didn't catch snare snap very well

with one spot mic on top. It was ok for the song we were doing, but If I wanted a lot of snap I might want the snare mic at the shell or underneath.

[Evinger]

If you were using the CADs as hypercardioid that might've been too narrow of a beam. Also I think the room and the player have a big influece on what gets to the mics. Glyn Johns often started with the 3-mic set up THEN added other mics as needed.

[apujols2194]

pearl reference = best drum set out

[Evinger]

Pearl Reference drums have a good thing going, yes. Not sure the best, but worth checking out.

These are Taye Studio Maple drums in the video made from North American Sugar Maple. High quality shells at an awesome price.

[leswatts1]

I'm gonna try this at a drum session tommorow. I'm kinda wondering if I'm going to

catch much of the snare strainer sound with

just one accent mic at the snare batter head.

I'll use CAD M179 LDC for overheads. This is a case where the continuously variable pattern (hypercardioid to omni and everything in between) may come in very handy.

Snare accent SM57...kick a vintage Shure ES 615. It's an unusual pencil omni dynamic with

condenser like response.

Les

[Evinger]

Post a link if you can. Cheers, Evinger

[amaurythewarrior]

after listening to the mono, i can hear it really sounds better

[angelfirephoenix]

wow!!! great sound

[Evinger]

Thanks! I'm using a pair of Peluso CEMC6 pencil condensers. So far I've had good results with those as well as Oktava and Josephson mics. Try it with your Rode mics, you might like what you hear. Also try the Recorderman technique, which is similar. As always, don't be afraid to experiment.

[Mfiguk]

great sound man,

what mics are you using for this technique,

i think my rodes are to bright for it

[simonpca]

Which Rode mics do yo own? NT5?