Lost features are often reversable. They experimented with a chicken embry once and by adding certain proteins, they could produce an ambryo with a longer tail and very small teeth. This means that our genes can be turned on and off through mutations. There's also another bird called the Seriema that possesses a sickle shaped claw on its toe much like a dromaeosaur.
@Jingign1: I'm not saying it has to be EITHER evolution OR creation. I'm asking why it has to be either/or. And of course we can't comprehend the idea of a creator. If there really was such a creator, someone who has the ability to create entire universes, how would we, insignificant humans, be able to understand it? We can't. So trying to understand a creator logically is pointless.
@ARKSOLDIER7: The best evidence is microscopic; after all, genes are microscopic, so it's fitting.
But I presume you want something anyone can verify. Perhaps the best of this kind is biological taxonomy, originated by a creationist, Karl of Linne (Germany, aka Linnaeus). A hundred years before Darwin he examined all living things with the idea of putting order to the seeming chaos. Using only appearance, some investigations in anatomy through dissection, and observation of function, ...
he drew together a scheme that made sense. He was the one who originated the binomial nomenclature, and used it to name our species Homo sapiens, Latin for "wise man", proving they had a sense of humor even in the 18th century. He also placed our species in the system within the family of great apes, within the class of primates, tree-dwelling mammals. That this aroused no problems in the intensely religious 18th century should ring bells somewhere. ...
Notice that Linnaeus imputed no meaning to his classification than just that it seemed to work. Also, it included only extant plants and animals; fossils at the time were too sparse and fragmented to allow coherence with live species.
Later on, of course, more philosophical people started wondering if there was some reason that it seemed to work out so well. More fossil finds began to add some depth to Carl's system, and were no small part in stirring Darwin's ideas. ...
... The great anatomists in England and elsewhere (like Darwin's nemesis Richard Owen and his "bulldog", Thomas Huxley) started fitting these beasts into the scheme where they seemed to go.
Indeed, they fit together so neatly that even creationists admit that there must be a reason for it. ...
... They grudgingly allow for "micro-evolution" (which incidentally helps them immensely when trying to explain Noah's flood), but refuse to believe that their kinds could have been produced by exactly the same sort of undirected activity. This requires that they eschew "transitional species", even as they refuse to define the limits and extent of their kinds.
Cool illogical religious arguments, bro. Can't you just enjoy the fucking video, or do you need to rub your beliefs all over everything you ever encounter?
Only misinformed people are doing us harm. Those who are ignorant to the subject or take it to the extreme. To say all faith is bad, in my opinion, is a poor argument.
@ShowMeAr15 Faith, by definition, is belief in something that is not supported by overwhelming evidence. If people have faith in somethings that they WANT to be true, but AREN'T true, then you are likely to run in to problems. Faith IS a problem when people create it to serve their own needs.
Can you show me where the bible says December 25th is Christ birthday? If your going to argue that the bible is false at least use examples that are in the bible.
I really don't give a fuck what the bible says man. It's reflection on society says enough. It's just fiction took as fact by the dull and defeated masses. The dates are irrelevant, the prayers are irrelevant, and the whole book is irrelevant. This is the same for any holy text. We are just a species of animal that I still consider primitive. The acceptance of facts and only facts is helping us get away from that. Faith is only doing us harm.
David Attenborough is one of the few people I can think of who will never cease to astound me, both with all his achievements and his ability to concisely deliver the facts. An excellent video.
"Jingign1: If Adam and Eve only birthed Cain and Able, who did they reproduce with to make future generations of people?
OWNED."
Owned? Ha, not quite. If you're going to use the Bible to try and disprove God (ridiculous), perhaps you should try reading it first. Adam and Eve had one other famous son named Seth, so already your argument has been revealed as ignorant. Also, Genesis 5:4 states they had sons AND daughters.
Let me guess, you're between 19 and 22 in age? You don't know shit.
THE BIBLE IS FUCKING BULLSHIT. I thought we established that. Wow, I'm not knowledgeable about a fucking fairy tale. Give me a break. Little Red Riding Hood is more credible than that hunk of shit. It's so upsetting how far religion has come. It makes me lose faith in humanity. It's like a bunch of adults who believe in Santa Claus. Pathetic.
Reading comprehension fail. I didn't say whether or not the Bible should be believed, I suggested that if you are going to use it in an argument then perhaps you should know what it actually says. No one should take any of your spewed inane ramblings seriously.
I wasn't using the Bible to prove or disprove anything. The bible is literally worthless. Just because I haven't read the bible, doesn't mean that my arguments aren't valid when it comes to science and organized religion. Religion is a bad joke that has gone on long enough. it's 2010 already. Come on.
you're all wrong, xemu brought us to earth and blew us up to battle overpopulation. evolution occurred so we could return to our genetic identity but has since stopped. Don't you guys know anything. Watch out though, if you ask too many questions you'll die of pneumonia or something.
So what initiated the initial replication of cells? It just happened by chance? Not buying that. I believe in a God because I believe life is meaningful and purposeful.
@SHowMeAr15 do you really think that the initial replication of cells is how life started? ...and you can buy that as "God's creation of life"? So he was standing there nudging things along... even though once you accept that sort of a scenario (proto-life on the verge of becoming real) you don't need a God at all... just a few billion years of rolling the dice? You must really be trying hard to please your parents (who would flip out if you you admitted that you don't really buy it).
You believe in a god because you have been conditioned and socialized to believe in one. You're also discussing your beliefs and your feelings while everyone else is discussing observable science. It's sad that so many Christians reject evolution because it contradicts their holy book written 2000 years ago when ignorant desert tribesmen were trying to figure out what that shiny orb in the sky was and how best to sacrifice virgins or if eating pork would land you in Hell.
I believe in God because, How could nature (chance) produce a being that would have such a deep longing for meaning and morality, if meaning and morality were arbitrary?
Is this the same moral god who turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for the simple act of turning around and looking at his wrathful hatred vengeance on Sodom and Gomorrah? Or the one who punishes Job and murders his entire family because God just has to prove something to Satan? Or the same moral god who implores me to kill anyone who works on a Sunday, or that it's ok to have slaves as long as they're a different nationality?
I dont agree with everything in the bible. I think anyone that does is foolish. I think people take some things in the bible to literally and then use partial quotes to meet their agenda.
I think statements like this are just cop-outs.I argue with your statement and the opposite of your statement, that people pick and choose things from the bible to meet their agenda as well. Nothing in the bible is concrete at all to be considered worth as a theory. So go ahead and pick and choose to make your view seem reasonable. You're only delaying the inevitable, EDUCATION, that will open the eyes of the masses and hopefully end the bullshit.
There is so much of the bible that is false man. For one, December 25th wasn't the day "Christ" was born. It was a previous holiday for the birth of the Sun god which Christians felt convenient to keep the date around. The bible is a book of conveniences. If you steal my shit.....youre gonna burn in hell.... If you fuck my wife....youre gonna burn in hell. It is a tool to inject fear in people to always be moral. People can be moral without religion but I guess it is there for a JUST IN CASE.
Because we have evolved a large brain mass and are now rational and autonomous beings. Stop talking philosophy and science when you don't know anything. Face it, you are a moron dude. It's kinda fun answering your retarded questions, keep em comin'. It's not like we evolved a need to find answers, we evolved large brains that ask more intellectual questions than other species.
So your argument is that we have evolved large brains. Wow. I find it funny that anyone that has an opposing view is "retarded". Way to make your side of the argument look foolish. Congrats.
Me calling you a retard isn't strengthening or weakening my argument at all. It's just my opinion. It's not that you have an opposing view, it's that you have an irrational view. I would consider a view opposing if it had anything to back it up.
so its irrational because you dont agree with it? I have posted a link to your savior Dawkins, out of his own mouth, saying that at the root there has to be a higher power involved. You said the bible was completely false but yet no proof. So dont talk to me about irrational. Keep to your talking points and name calling. It seems to be what your best at.
It's extremely irrational to think that the Christian God is the only higher power in existence, if any. Let me see this link you are talking about. I understand how the name calling isn't helping my argument but with that nonsense aside, I feel like I have somewhat refuted all of your statements. Of course we haven't figured out all the facts about what is well....fact in our universe, but I recommend taking the scientific approach rather than any other.
At what point did I say that the Christian God is the only higher power? Maybe you should stop assuming what I believe and instead ask. I at no point said that. Also I stated that I believe that both Theism and Naturalism coexist. I stated that there had to be a higher power that initiated the creation. Also like i said, how is your leap of faith and my leap of faith different. We both agree there had to be some kind of action done to start the process.
Scientist have not found concrete evidence for what happened before the big bang, but astronomers, physicists, and mathematicians are looking to work it out. String theory may uncover some facts in a few years HOPEFULLY. But dont think for a second that because we don't know.....it's God. Because we dont know, we dont know. Leave it at that.
And I love how you avoided answering my Adam and Eve statement below.
What is the least logical is to claim that you have knowledge about it. Even stating that God could have done it is saying that you are more knowledgeable about the subject than someone who doesn't believe in a god. That, my friend, is completely false.
Your 'argument' for god was written in great detail by David Hume in the 1700s. He wrote it with the express intent to prove that it is absolutely false. Read "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion", and you'll see that the Intelligent design argument holds no water. If you can't or won't get through a short book written in the 1700s, then your belief in god is based on willful ignorance.
@ShowMeAr15:And that's cool; no one is particularly taking notice of what you believe. It's only when you want your belief to be given equal footing with science *in science classes*, with the avowed purpose of undermining science's place in society (proof under your fingers) and maintaining your beliefs in perpetuity regardless of effects upon future generations, when people start taking some umbrage. ...
... We don't yet know all the details of abiogenesis as well as we do for evolution, but that doesn't mean we won't find them out in the next 50-100 years, nor that you can assert your faith on the matter *in science classrooms*.
Because theism is stupidity. People should not sympathize with religion because religion doesn't sympathize with anything itself. I understand people who are religious are just trying to be good people and follow their beliefs but when their beliefs do things such as oppress gays, atheists, and various other groups and lets not forget, FACTS, then religion can GO. FUCK. ITSELF. Faith is bullshit and is a horrible tool to keep people hypnotized. Think for youself, dont subscribe to anything.
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So even thou Dawkins says that there is some kind of intelligent design at the root of creating life, they still cannot coexist? I believe there has to be a mix of both. I believe in Theism and Naturalism. Has evolution happened without a doubt it has but something had to start the process, a higher being had to initiate it.
@ShowMeAr15, if one studies the facts (evolution, physics, etc) in detail for long enough, one must have to do some real mental gymnastics to still believe in an intervening god. If our species has been around for at least 100, 00 years you'd have to believe that your god waited around for 95, 000 of it to swoop down and offer help. That's cruel when you consider how much suffering must have taken place. Why add a god when a god is not necessary, nor is it a sufficient explanation.
A higher being did not have to initiate anything. Just because you don't understand what scientifically happened, you shouldn't say you have knowledge about what must have happened. Dont just give up and say, "oh, god did it." That is such a retarded cop-out answer. Religion brings out such a defeatist frame of mind. "I don't know exactly what happened, so God must have did it". That will get the human race no where in our existence and quest for knowledge. Religion is just slowing us down.
And for the record, Dawkins has and will never say there was "some sort of intelligent design at the root of creating life". That's fucking hilarious that you would think that, because in pretty much every single one of his talks and books, he states clearly that he completely denies intelligent design. Intelligent design is a clever term coined by creationists to try to inject God into science. Clever bastards. Evolution by Natural Selection babyyyyy.
I'm really not trying to be a dick or anything, I just hope you eventually stop believing all that religious bullshit and open your eyes to some of the most beautiful things this world has to offer. Not by the boring theory of creation, but by the incredible processes of nature and evolution. Our universe is more beautiful than you can ever imagine. No story made up by shepards could ever top the awe inspiring facts of life, nature, physics, etc.
@ShowMeAr15: the only reason as far as I know is an insistence among some religions that the Bible, written by committee with axes to grind during the Babylonian exile, (or the Koran) must necessarily be absolutely true in all respects, even as it contradicts itself and the current state of scientific knowledge. Other religions without that specific stricture find no problems with accepting the Theory of Evolution, Big Bang or even abiogenesis.
If only it was a simple as "to each their own" but unfortunately american Christian radicals fund millions of dollars each year to discredit evolution and science in general. I hate to break it to all "ye faithful" but religions didn't get us out of the caves, science did.
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Just because they call something "evidence" does not actually make it evidence. The process of which these animals reproduce, grow and live has nothing to do with imaginary creatures created out of a bone fragment. If Science was a family, evolution would be the retarded cousin.
Yo, you know what I'd bet you'd like? Reading a book about tangible scientific evidence, rather than fairy tales. Some people call these science-based books big kid stories. They are pretty information dense, though. You might find yourself learning too much.
Here is how I see it. The universe is approx. 40 billion years old, and humanity is about 40,000. It is not super important about the amount of exact years, just the difference - which is enormous. So in universe time, humanity will have lived (because if nothing else gets us, the sun will eventually go out) we will have existed for a blink of an eye. Now look at religion and creationism again, stop being a narcissist, it is not about us. if we are so important then what is the rest all about?
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Just because the President of the United States does not come to your house for dinner or calls you on the phone, does not mean he doesn't exist. And he is just a puny human. Imagine the same logic with any other celebrity, king or rock star.
God does not need to prove to you that he exists, who do you think you are? To Him you are no different than the other billions of people who live here. God already proved his existence, he left all the information you need to know.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster does not need to prove to you that he exists, who do you think you are? To Him you are no different than the other billions of people who live here. The Flying Spaghetti Monster already proved his existence, he left all the information you need to know.
What an incredibly fallacious argument by ChickenBot. We have physical, concrete evidence that the President and "any other celebrity, king or rock star" exists. Nobody is arguing whether or not actual human beings exist.
Yet there is just as much evidence for the existence of Yahweh as there is for Osiris, Thor, Jupiter, Xenu, Yoruba or any other host of thousands of gods people have worshipped in our ~200,000 years. What "proof" do you have of your God's existence? That manwritten book?
if I may add, it's a collection of fairy tales and family records for the jews. All founded by a delusional mentally ill person that heard voices that told him to kill his son and that he was super special... in fact he and his offspring are forever super special and better than all other people... forever.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster came to me in a dream and left all the information that I needed to know. He's real even though He does not come to your house for dinner or calls you on the phone...Prove me wrong.
@ChickenBot By that logic, just because I have never seen Jack or his beanstalk, doesn't mean he doesn't exist! He's left all his evidence in a book!!! BRB worshiping Jack and his beanstalk
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I don't quite understand why belief in God and belief in evolution have to be separate. What if God had a hand in evolution and actually helped guide it? Besides, I don't think a creator would really want his creation to be the same century after century. It would be much more fun to watch it change and grow.
Sadly, many people believe that since the Christian bible says that a god made Earth in a week and that god made Adam and friends, that evolution can't be true since that would make the bible wrong. We have nothing written that a god did have a hand in evolution. There is no proof, just guesses and supposition. To think about it, I really do not want people who hadn't yet invented internal plumbing telling me their opinion about the nature of how we came to be.
Actually, it's not. It's reasonable; trying to find a comprise between two radically different beliefs that actually makes sense is not naive. Refusing to even consider other possibilities is foolish.
Evolution makes sense. Creation does not. Read "The Greatest Show on Earth". It explains why creation doesn't make sense. For one, who made the creator?
@ryanlaing: Where in the world did you get that? The platypus is not technically (or any other way) a dinosaur; the best that can be said is that they share a amphibian as a common ancestor. The platypus is a monotreme mammal, meaning that it is a mammal for all features, but that it lays eggs rather than giving live birth. Phylogenetically it is a primitive (meaning early) mammal, even earlier than marsupials.
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Isn't it more depressing to believe that there is nothing after death? That we come from nothing and go in to nothing when it's all said and done? I personally find that idea much more depressing than being created by a higher being and having multiple lives and going back to Him after death one day.
Yes, but the eternal I speak of is not punishment. It is immortality unlike any a scientist can attempt to make. It is a spiritual form unlike the material body. It is who we once were, before we decided we wanted to be God. God, in His mercy, gave us freewill, and it is with this free will that the scientists are creating, making "the modern world," and forgetting God. Spiritual teachers are also trying to bring us back to God, and religious are only listening to these teachers.
@theultimateotaku No. What that should tell you is that this is all you have got. Like a carton of milk, you have a shelf life. Knowing that we all have a limited time here, do bigger and greater than you think you can and give the world an excuse to justify your existence. And then in the end, when it's all over, you can look back and realize that You did it all. If you realize it's just you looking out for you and not some god makes your choices for you, you can do great things.
I'm sure you can. But you didn't tell my why my view is incorrect. I'm telling Morphinemoniza, that if you act like there isn't a god looking out for you, and you choose to accomplish more, then at the end of it all, you realize that you did do it all yourself. What's wrong with that? I go to Africa every year and drink beer and help out kids not because a god wants me to, but because it is AWESOME. Self determination is a wonderful and powerful thing. Try it sometime. 100% Jesus free.
You can do so many great things, but when you die, you do not take any of those things with you. Don't lump me into a stereotype of religious people. I choose to believe what I believe in, based on holy writ and people I respect, just like you believe in the Big Bang because of textbooks and scientists. As for happiness, we each seek it, religious or not. If I find mine in an eternal figure of authority and goodness, so? At least my happiness has a chance of lasting longer than 1 human life.
That's the point. You're DEAD after all. Contribute to humanity by leaving the place a better place because you were there. Also I do not "believe" in or have faith in science. Valid science is supported by evidence that has been tested and validated. I simply follow that results of that evidence. I stopped believing in Thor, Vishnu, Xenu, the forest spirit and the Christian/Catholic god a long time ago.
You cannot see proof of God until you are willing to listen to people who know God. They have His "license," what He looks like, what He does, etc. But you are a stranger. Would you show a stranger your friend's personal information? No. First, you must be willing to listen. That's great that you want to contribute to humanity; but even an animal dies having contributed to others. I think humans, w/ higher intelligence, can strive for more in life, and reach beyond material boundaries.
@theultimateotaku I'm not an outsider. I was raised Catholic. But if you've been paying attention to Ireland, Germany and Brazil, many of those who have "his license" are also child molesters. This brings up the point of why would a god let and of his mouthpieces be molesters and why would he allow the pope in 1964 to shield these abusers? The fish stinks as if it were rotten from the head down. Or at least parts of it. Honestly, I think I can do a better job on my own.
When I say license, I am not meaning every single priest or guru or shaman or what have you that may outwardly appear to be an agent of God. I am talking about people who are pure, as those men who have abused children obviously aren't. Those child abusers are like wolf wearing the skin of a sheep - they are false agents. Unfortunately it is not easy to find true agents of God, but that is one reason to read scripture - the highest scriptures define for us, who is a true agent, and who is not.
@theultimateotaku The fact that these pedophiles hide in the church and are actually sheltered by the church should tell you something. I've read scripture and even if it is true and doesn't conflict itself and doesn't even include all the gospels of the day, the organization called the Catholic Church is corrupt. And if there is a god and he lets this happen in THE organization that speaks for him, well, he's a lazy bastard or he is morally corrupt or he's simply not there. Camon man. Think.
@zavatone I believe religion's purpose is to revive our innate love for God; those organizations that go corrupt lose sight of this purpose. It is not that God "lets this happen," it is that the people in these organizations are misusing free will. God gave us free will and this world because we wanted a place where we could exert our power. It is not God's fault; it is ours. True spiritual agents of God who know Him have been sent by Him to bring those willing back home, to God.
@theultimateotaku And I believe that religion served(es) as an attempt to explain the unknown and as a set of guides to allow tribal, warring groups to live together in a society without killing themselves, now to do basic sanitation and how to eat foods that would not leave you full of worms.
We are WAAAY past those times now. And many religions' basic concepts serve as guides for these principles. Let's move past old religions, each of which says it is the only ultimate truth.
@zavatone Let's agree to disagree. Lumping religions together tho, to me, seems as stupid as chickenbot's comment on atheists.
My religion is not "behind" or "the only way." The way I see the "behind" ness is that spiritual agents, i.e. Jesus, preached according to their times; so not everything they said is appropriate for right now.
I believe that there ARE current spiritual agents of God residing on-earth. People are taking instruction from them, not just holy books.
@theultimateotaku You know that God does not exist, it's just a pure power of Imagination. Why do you force it ? If some people in the past had the possibility to imagine things which afterwards they advertised it and boosted until the point that more people believed it than those who didn't believed then why shouldn't anybody else imagine and advertise the same way like these "poets" (prophets) did ? So I can easily say that in the night while you sleep, your TV goes for a walk in the city :-j
@ theultimateotaku: I think life is more precious because we only get to live and experience this world once. And in a way, we continue to live on through our species. Which is why it's scientists trying to prevent the devastating effects of problems like global warming while most religious nutcases refuse to even acknowledge there's a problem. Also, human beings come from a rich and complex history of evolution. We are a part of a natural history greater than ourselves.
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@ morphinemoniza, I think that human life specifically is extra precious because we have the intelligence to seek God. By not seeking spirituality, we are no better than the animals, eating, mating, fighting and defending. Scientists are trying to help the material bodies of humans, but religious figures (SOME) are trying to help our souls, which survive forever, unlike our bodies. God gave humanity his intelligence, his body, and the wonders of the world. They are here due to God, not you.
@theultimateotaku: Religion is the result of fear not sprirituality of intelligence. When confronted with the inexplicable human beings turned to religion to either explain it or to find some way of protecting themselves. We have better and more rational means of doing so now because as a species we accumulated enough knowledge to understand the natural phenomenons that occur around us without having to turn to mythology and fiction.
@ morphine, MY religion is not about fear. You say religion = ignorance. But science continually rejects anything immaterial, whereas religion accepts + knows the material + transcends it. A scientist cannot even see into a closed-off room without devices. God sees + knows all (ex: our purpose. Do scientists know it? No). Who, then, is more powerful + intelligent? God. He is even kind enough to give you freewill to turn against Him. I would put my trust in God over you or any scientist.
religion is MADE UP. God is as fictional as donald duck. Science is based on proof, You can't compare the two because there is no basis for comparison. If I want to read a good story I'll read the bible but if I want to find out about how this world came to be the way it is I;ll watch documentaries about evolution rather than reading Genesis.
just to clarify, When I say "god" i mean the entity created by man. There might be some sort of creator out there somewhere. but it is highly unlikely he/it/she/they have anything to do with organised religion.
Well, at least you believe in God. One question: So if you believe there is a creator, then why can't that creator have arranged evolution and Darwin discovered it? I can understand having problems with people's methods of religion, which may seem lackluster or dogmatic. But do you have a problem with the idea that people are trying to get closer to this creator? Surely you can't object to their intent, since you acknowledge an inward belief in a higher being.
You are generalizing, saying religion = dogma and greed. I think real religions are different frames by which people try to see + know the same thing: God. Scientists are experts in science; similarly, why cannot there be experts in spirituality? I believe that true knowers of God exist, and they can prove things, if people just listen. They do not care for the outside trappings of religion - God's names, creation, whatever. All they want is to get you closer to God.
@puncheex hi, I watched your video. It's a typical atheist argument that religion is "old fashioned" and that "people back then" took it up because they were fearful and ignorant. I've already discussed this; see my discussion with morphinemoniza. The author of your linked video says, "But a good parent never fills its child with shame, or an inferiority complex." What this says to me, is that people want to blame God for their problems, instead of admitting that things might be their fault.
@puncheex "But a good parent never fills its child with shame, or an inferiority complex." says this to me: Because mainstream Christian religion has the idea of "we are all sinners", atheists have decided to say that, "Oh that is so cruel, so I'm not going to believe in your God." But atheists believe in cause and effect, right? So therefore, what you do affects what will happen to you in the future. The "shame and inferiority" we may feel, that's not God's punishment. It's your mind.
@puncheex The maker of your link vid is trying to blame God by saying "He's a bad parent, so he doesn't exist, so we must've created Him b/c of fear," but why would we feel fear, unless we knew something was wrong? Wouldn't you agree that you feel fear when something is "off"? IMO we know, inherently, that we don't belong here. The crap that we go thru in life, you can say it's God's fault or just life, but ppl wouldn't be so fearful if we were w/ God, where we belong.
@theultimateotaku: I don't know what video you were watching but there are no such quotes in it. He says at one point, after talking about the universe's impartiality: "We are not born into any shame. To say we are is a crime against humanity. We inflict shame on ourselves to atone for our imperfections, while trying to be more perfect than we can be." He says nothing of parents, nor of blaming anyone for it other than ourselves. ...
... And as you noted he doesn't believe in god, so what would be the point in saying he's a bad parent, or anthropomorphizing him at all? Neither of us blame god for anything.
So,
- You logic needs some work; you even sound somewhat paranoid, as if he were attacking you.
- You evidence nothing of your beliefs, particularly that last statement.
- You need to learn that when you put something in quotes, it had better be a literal quote, not what you heard through your Bible glasses.
@puncheex First of all, I am not a Bible reader. Secondly, the quote that I used was in his vid description. I don't know why he called God whom he doesn't believe "parent", but it's probably b/c he's talking to religious ppl. I am not attacking him; I am merely replying to his video, which you linked me to, assumedly b/c you desired a response.
@theultimateotaku: The remark about Bible glasses is a Ken Ham reference. Ignore it, but hold the rest.
I must apologize; Philhellenes does mention parents in his intro, and I missed that. However, note what he says exactly: "Like children, we WILL love what takes our fear away as if it WERE our parent. But a good parent never fills its child with shame, or an inferiority complex." He didn't say god is bad parent; he's saying: ...
@puncheex I argued in my last comment against the linked vid's idea that we created God to protect us from our fear of the unknown and that, being more knowledgeable than we were in the past, we need fear less and don't need God anymore. What I am saying is that fear and other negative emotions are not God's fault, they are ours. I vouched for the concepts of reincarnation and karma, which suggest that we have multiple bodies as an eternal soul, and in each body we rack up karma.
@theultimateotaku Let me clarify: by "multiple bodies", I obviously don't mean we have multiple bodies all at once! Our souls travels from body to body according to our karma.
@puncheex Therefore by the law of karma, we follow the rule of cause and effect. Atheists believe in cause and effect, right? Well, as you cause miseries to others, so you gain misery. Reincarnation expands this cause+effect concept by saying, the miseries we suffer in this body which may seem to be undeserved or "God's fault", are in fact the effect of our having caused miseries to others in *previous lives*.
@puncheex I also argued that rather than God being something we made up which orginated from our fear and ignorance, our *need*, that our *need* for God and our separation from Him, whom we are meant to be with, is the *cause* of our having fear at all. God gave us free will b/c we asked for it, we wanted power. This world was made just for us to have our powerplay. But now we are miserable. Instead of seeking God to help us out of our misery, we blame Him.
@puncheex If we truly had power to control this material universe and its energies, to control our lives, wouldn't we be happy all the time? You want to be happy, don't you? I am arguing that people, who are *still* fearful regardless of all our knowledge and advancement, should seek God, b/c God, being *truly* all-powerful, can help us gain eternal happiness. This eternal happiness can be ours when we seek a true agent of God who can guide us back to our original home, where God is.
@puncheex I watched the video you linked me to, called "God: The Love Born of Terror" by philhellenes. Isn't this what you meant me to watch? It has UcrJ2HFKogs at the end of the URL. His quote that I used is in his vid description, and it *IS* similar to the quote of his that you gave, *not* contrary. He is arguing against the religionists that say, "We were born sinners", and is saying that God is not loving, but a product of fear. I have already discussed this with you in my above comments.
@theultimateotaku: Yes, that is the video that I invited you to watch. Again, I apologize for not recognizing what you said as part of his introduction. Further, I still think that your conclusions drawn from what he said were erroneous, as I said above. I agree that fear is our own fault, in the same way as having two hands is, but it is part of our nature and guilt shouldn't play into it. The fear was necessary in times past. ...
... I think I agree with your sinner conclusion, though I think it goes deeper than that. Do you think what he says in the video applies to your religion (Hindu, I would guess) or not?
@puncheex Btw, YouTube is not posting my comments in order; my analogy comment begins w/ "here's my analogy" and continues w/ "God wants us back." You say you may agree w/ my sinner conclusion, but you think it goes deeper. Say more? I think that nothing philhellenes says applies to my religion or *any* religion. I do not believe that, as he argues, we evolved fearful and God is our "monster under the bed", or that Thales' eclipse prediction means we are more/equally powerful as God. I disagree.
@puncheex I took notes on philhellenes vid this time. He says that we suffer w/o logic, so the gods are cruel, and Thales' eclipse prediction, since God or priests didn't predict it, means a regular human has God's power. I think that's total BS. I believe any power we have comes from God. All of our traits, even our features, come from God himself. And all of our miseries come from the impermanency of this world we chose to come to. Our miseries are part of life, yes, but we make them worse.
Lost features are often reversable. They experimented with a chicken embry once and by adding certain proteins, they could produce an ambryo with a longer tail and very small teeth. This means that our genes can be turned on and off through mutations. There's also another bird called the Seriema that possesses a sickle shaped claw on its toe much like a dromaeosaur.
Pssybart 1 year ago
Dear, can you share your English captions with me ? I would like to use them as basis for a Chinese translation of this series!
yellowlynx 1 year ago
i collected fossil too when i was younger with my grandad and we gave them to the local hostory musem ,
jmm1233 1 year ago
@Jingign1: I'm not saying it has to be EITHER evolution OR creation. I'm asking why it has to be either/or. And of course we can't comprehend the idea of a creator. If there really was such a creator, someone who has the ability to create entire universes, how would we, insignificant humans, be able to understand it? We can't. So trying to understand a creator logically is pointless.
smeegle24 1 year ago
We are surrounded by overwhelming evidence that supports evolution. I believe the burden of PROOF is on your shoulders, religious people.
B4rK0d3 1 year ago 25
@B4rK0d3 tell me what proof is around us then maybe some people would believe that evolution is real
ARKSOLDIER7 1 year ago
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@ARKSOLDIER7 did you not watch this video?
iluvfatbuds 1 year ago
@ARKSOLDIER7: The best evidence is microscopic; after all, genes are microscopic, so it's fitting.
But I presume you want something anyone can verify. Perhaps the best of this kind is biological taxonomy, originated by a creationist, Karl of Linne (Germany, aka Linnaeus). A hundred years before Darwin he examined all living things with the idea of putting order to the seeming chaos. Using only appearance, some investigations in anatomy through dissection, and observation of function, ...
puncheex 1 year ago
he drew together a scheme that made sense. He was the one who originated the binomial nomenclature, and used it to name our species Homo sapiens, Latin for "wise man", proving they had a sense of humor even in the 18th century. He also placed our species in the system within the family of great apes, within the class of primates, tree-dwelling mammals. That this aroused no problems in the intensely religious 18th century should ring bells somewhere. ...
puncheex 1 year ago
...
Notice that Linnaeus imputed no meaning to his classification than just that it seemed to work. Also, it included only extant plants and animals; fossils at the time were too sparse and fragmented to allow coherence with live species.
Later on, of course, more philosophical people started wondering if there was some reason that it seemed to work out so well. More fossil finds began to add some depth to Carl's system, and were no small part in stirring Darwin's ideas. ...
puncheex 1 year ago
... The great anatomists in England and elsewhere (like Darwin's nemesis Richard Owen and his "bulldog", Thomas Huxley) started fitting these beasts into the scheme where they seemed to go.
Indeed, they fit together so neatly that even creationists admit that there must be a reason for it. ...
puncheex 1 year ago
... They grudgingly allow for "micro-evolution" (which incidentally helps them immensely when trying to explain Noah's flood), but refuse to believe that their kinds could have been produced by exactly the same sort of undirected activity. This requires that they eschew "transitional species", even as they refuse to define the limits and extent of their kinds.
puncheex 1 year ago
(Part 6 of a six part reply to ARKSOLDIER7).
puncheex 1 year ago
Cool illogical religious arguments, bro. Can't you just enjoy the fucking video, or do you need to rub your beliefs all over everything you ever encounter?
Kaephuin 1 year ago
Only misinformed people are doing us harm. Those who are ignorant to the subject or take it to the extreme. To say all faith is bad, in my opinion, is a poor argument.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
@ShowMeAr15 Faith, by definition, is belief in something that is not supported by overwhelming evidence. If people have faith in somethings that they WANT to be true, but AREN'T true, then you are likely to run in to problems. Faith IS a problem when people create it to serve their own needs.
zavatone 1 year ago
Can you show me where the bible says December 25th is Christ birthday? If your going to argue that the bible is false at least use examples that are in the bible.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
I really don't give a fuck what the bible says man. It's reflection on society says enough. It's just fiction took as fact by the dull and defeated masses. The dates are irrelevant, the prayers are irrelevant, and the whole book is irrelevant. This is the same for any holy text. We are just a species of animal that I still consider primitive. The acceptance of facts and only facts is helping us get away from that. Faith is only doing us harm.
Jingign1 1 year ago 4
David Attenborough is one of the few people I can think of who will never cease to astound me, both with all his achievements and his ability to concisely deliver the facts. An excellent video.
ispofdoom 1 year ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
"Jingign1: If Adam and Eve only birthed Cain and Able, who did they reproduce with to make future generations of people?
OWNED."
Owned? Ha, not quite. If you're going to use the Bible to try and disprove God (ridiculous), perhaps you should try reading it first. Adam and Eve had one other famous son named Seth, so already your argument has been revealed as ignorant. Also, Genesis 5:4 states they had sons AND daughters.
Let me guess, you're between 19 and 22 in age? You don't know shit.
Man0rMonster 1 year ago
THE BIBLE IS FUCKING BULLSHIT. I thought we established that. Wow, I'm not knowledgeable about a fucking fairy tale. Give me a break. Little Red Riding Hood is more credible than that hunk of shit. It's so upsetting how far religion has come. It makes me lose faith in humanity. It's like a bunch of adults who believe in Santa Claus. Pathetic.
Jingign1 1 year ago
Reading comprehension fail. I didn't say whether or not the Bible should be believed, I suggested that if you are going to use it in an argument then perhaps you should know what it actually says. No one should take any of your spewed inane ramblings seriously.
Man0rMonster 1 year ago
I wasn't using the Bible to prove or disprove anything. The bible is literally worthless. Just because I haven't read the bible, doesn't mean that my arguments aren't valid when it comes to science and organized religion. Religion is a bad joke that has gone on long enough. it's 2010 already. Come on.
Jingign1 1 year ago
@ GlryX - he must be handling a female platypus - they have the spur but no poison.
flampoo 1 year ago
you're all wrong, xemu brought us to earth and blew us up to battle overpopulation. evolution occurred so we could return to our genetic identity but has since stopped. Don't you guys know anything. Watch out though, if you ask too many questions you'll die of pneumonia or something.
lojack72 1 year ago 3
Eat that christains! HAHAHA, we all laugh in your general direction. (yes I said stains)
I'll be over here with the intelligent people.
aegisgfx 1 year ago
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@superwolf76
So what initiated the initial replication of cells? It just happened by chance? Not buying that. I believe in a God because I believe life is meaningful and purposeful.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
@SHowMeAr15 do you really think that the initial replication of cells is how life started? ...and you can buy that as "God's creation of life"? So he was standing there nudging things along... even though once you accept that sort of a scenario (proto-life on the verge of becoming real) you don't need a God at all... just a few billion years of rolling the dice? You must really be trying hard to please your parents (who would flip out if you you admitted that you don't really buy it).
ObserverImpartial 1 year ago
insults thats the way to go.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
You believe in a god because you have been conditioned and socialized to believe in one. You're also discussing your beliefs and your feelings while everyone else is discussing observable science. It's sad that so many Christians reject evolution because it contradicts their holy book written 2000 years ago when ignorant desert tribesmen were trying to figure out what that shiny orb in the sky was and how best to sacrifice virgins or if eating pork would land you in Hell.
Quasiqueasy 1 year ago 5
Do you believe that people. life. have a purpose or meaning?
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
I believe in God because, How could nature (chance) produce a being that would have such a deep longing for meaning and morality, if meaning and morality were arbitrary?
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
Is this the same moral god who turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for the simple act of turning around and looking at his wrathful hatred vengeance on Sodom and Gomorrah? Or the one who punishes Job and murders his entire family because God just has to prove something to Satan? Or the same moral god who implores me to kill anyone who works on a Sunday, or that it's ok to have slaves as long as they're a different nationality?
Quasiqueasy 1 year ago 6
I dont agree with everything in the bible. I think anyone that does is foolish. I think people take some things in the bible to literally and then use partial quotes to meet their agenda.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
I think statements like this are just cop-outs.I argue with your statement and the opposite of your statement, that people pick and choose things from the bible to meet their agenda as well. Nothing in the bible is concrete at all to be considered worth as a theory. So go ahead and pick and choose to make your view seem reasonable. You're only delaying the inevitable, EDUCATION, that will open the eyes of the masses and hopefully end the bullshit.
Jingign1 1 year ago
ok so where is your proof. Your the one that is saying its not truth so prove it wrong. Dont just say something to say something.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
There is so much of the bible that is false man. For one, December 25th wasn't the day "Christ" was born. It was a previous holiday for the birth of the Sun god which Christians felt convenient to keep the date around. The bible is a book of conveniences. If you steal my shit.....youre gonna burn in hell.... If you fuck my wife....youre gonna burn in hell. It is a tool to inject fear in people to always be moral. People can be moral without religion but I guess it is there for a JUST IN CASE.
Jingign1 1 year ago
Because we have evolved a large brain mass and are now rational and autonomous beings. Stop talking philosophy and science when you don't know anything. Face it, you are a moron dude. It's kinda fun answering your retarded questions, keep em comin'. It's not like we evolved a need to find answers, we evolved large brains that ask more intellectual questions than other species.
Jingign1 1 year ago
So your argument is that we have evolved large brains. Wow. I find it funny that anyone that has an opposing view is "retarded". Way to make your side of the argument look foolish. Congrats.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
Me calling you a retard isn't strengthening or weakening my argument at all. It's just my opinion. It's not that you have an opposing view, it's that you have an irrational view. I would consider a view opposing if it had anything to back it up.
Jingign1 1 year ago
so its irrational because you dont agree with it? I have posted a link to your savior Dawkins, out of his own mouth, saying that at the root there has to be a higher power involved. You said the bible was completely false but yet no proof. So dont talk to me about irrational. Keep to your talking points and name calling. It seems to be what your best at.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
It's extremely irrational to think that the Christian God is the only higher power in existence, if any. Let me see this link you are talking about. I understand how the name calling isn't helping my argument but with that nonsense aside, I feel like I have somewhat refuted all of your statements. Of course we haven't figured out all the facts about what is well....fact in our universe, but I recommend taking the scientific approach rather than any other.
Jingign1 1 year ago
At what point did I say that the Christian God is the only higher power? Maybe you should stop assuming what I believe and instead ask. I at no point said that. Also I stated that I believe that both Theism and Naturalism coexist. I stated that there had to be a higher power that initiated the creation. Also like i said, how is your leap of faith and my leap of faith different. We both agree there had to be some kind of action done to start the process.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
Of course there was some sort of action done to start the process. The Big Bang maybe? Sorry for assuming you were Christian.
Jingign1 1 year ago
So what caused the big bang theory to happen? Chance?
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
Scientist have not found concrete evidence for what happened before the big bang, but astronomers, physicists, and mathematicians are looking to work it out. String theory may uncover some facts in a few years HOPEFULLY. But dont think for a second that because we don't know.....it's God. Because we dont know, we dont know. Leave it at that.
And I love how you avoided answering my Adam and Eve statement below.
Jingign1 1 year ago
in a similar token, what made god? the big bang just skips a step. Nothing -> everything is less logically taxing that nothing -> god -> everything.
gambatteeee 1 year ago
What is the least logical is to claim that you have knowledge about it. Even stating that God could have done it is saying that you are more knowledgeable about the subject than someone who doesn't believe in a god. That, my friend, is completely false.
Jingign1 1 year ago
Your 'argument' for god was written in great detail by David Hume in the 1700s. He wrote it with the express intent to prove that it is absolutely false. Read "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion", and you'll see that the Intelligent design argument holds no water. If you can't or won't get through a short book written in the 1700s, then your belief in god is based on willful ignorance.
fritzguy 1 year ago 4
I will read this, see unlike you all I am open to everything.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
It probably isn't and your beliefs will not have any effect.
grenangle 1 year ago
@ShowMeAr15:And that's cool; no one is particularly taking notice of what you believe. It's only when you want your belief to be given equal footing with science *in science classes*, with the avowed purpose of undermining science's place in society (proof under your fingers) and maintaining your beliefs in perpetuity regardless of effects upon future generations, when people start taking some umbrage. ...
puncheex 1 year ago
... We don't yet know all the details of abiogenesis as well as we do for evolution, but that doesn't mean we won't find them out in the next 50-100 years, nor that you can assert your faith on the matter *in science classrooms*.
puncheex 1 year ago
Wait.......so in a year 2010 people actually STILL don't accept the fact of evolution?!?!?!?! This world is fucked.
biorobotmachine 1 year ago 7
So why is it that Theism and Naturalism cannot coexist?
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
Because theism is stupidity. People should not sympathize with religion because religion doesn't sympathize with anything itself. I understand people who are religious are just trying to be good people and follow their beliefs but when their beliefs do things such as oppress gays, atheists, and various other groups and lets not forget, FACTS, then religion can GO. FUCK. ITSELF. Faith is bullshit and is a horrible tool to keep people hypnotized. Think for youself, dont subscribe to anything.
Jingign1 1 year ago 6
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So even thou Dawkins says that there is some kind of intelligent design at the root of creating life, they still cannot coexist? I believe there has to be a mix of both. I believe in Theism and Naturalism. Has evolution happened without a doubt it has but something had to start the process, a higher being had to initiate it.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
@ShowMeAr15, if one studies the facts (evolution, physics, etc) in detail for long enough, one must have to do some real mental gymnastics to still believe in an intervening god. If our species has been around for at least 100, 00 years you'd have to believe that your god waited around for 95, 000 of it to swoop down and offer help. That's cruel when you consider how much suffering must have taken place. Why add a god when a god is not necessary, nor is it a sufficient explanation.
superwolf76 1 year ago 4
A higher being did not have to initiate anything. Just because you don't understand what scientifically happened, you shouldn't say you have knowledge about what must have happened. Dont just give up and say, "oh, god did it." That is such a retarded cop-out answer. Religion brings out such a defeatist frame of mind. "I don't know exactly what happened, so God must have did it". That will get the human race no where in our existence and quest for knowledge. Religion is just slowing us down.
Jingign1 1 year ago 5
So your leap of faith that it happened by chance and my leap of faith that a higher being had to be involved differs how?
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
I don't need faith when it comes to evolution buddy. You are just ignorant and mildly retarded.
Jingign1 1 year ago 2
And for the record, Dawkins has and will never say there was "some sort of intelligent design at the root of creating life". That's fucking hilarious that you would think that, because in pretty much every single one of his talks and books, he states clearly that he completely denies intelligent design. Intelligent design is a clever term coined by creationists to try to inject God into science. Clever bastards. Evolution by Natural Selection babyyyyy.
Jingign1 1 year ago 5
I'm really not trying to be a dick or anything, I just hope you eventually stop believing all that religious bullshit and open your eyes to some of the most beautiful things this world has to offer. Not by the boring theory of creation, but by the incredible processes of nature and evolution. Our universe is more beautiful than you can ever imagine. No story made up by shepards could ever top the awe inspiring facts of life, nature, physics, etc.
Jingign1 1 year ago 3
can you disprove "the story made up by shepards"
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
Yes.
Jingign1 1 year ago
Then please do.
ShowMeAr15 1 year ago
If Adam and Eve only birthed Cain and Able, who did they reproduce with to make future generations of people?
OWNED.
Jingign1 1 year ago
@ShowMeAr15: the only reason as far as I know is an insistence among some religions that the Bible, written by committee with axes to grind during the Babylonian exile, (or the Koran) must necessarily be absolutely true in all respects, even as it contradicts itself and the current state of scientific knowledge. Other religions without that specific stricture find no problems with accepting the Theory of Evolution, Big Bang or even abiogenesis.
puncheex 1 year ago
If only it was a simple as "to each their own" but unfortunately american Christian radicals fund millions of dollars each year to discredit evolution and science in general. I hate to break it to all "ye faithful" but religions didn't get us out of the caves, science did.
1984x2008 1 year ago 16
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Just because they call something "evidence" does not actually make it evidence. The process of which these animals reproduce, grow and live has nothing to do with imaginary creatures created out of a bone fragment. If Science was a family, evolution would be the retarded cousin.
ChickenBot 1 year ago
Something tells me you know a lot about being the retarded cousin.
kklein25 1 year ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Something tells me you are still a virgin.
ChickenBot 1 year ago
I hope for your sake you are trolling, because you sound like a moron.
v1ch 1 year ago 2
Yo, you know what I'd bet you'd like? Reading a book about tangible scientific evidence, rather than fairy tales. Some people call these science-based books big kid stories. They are pretty information dense, though. You might find yourself learning too much.
wonderhat7 1 year ago 2
I'm gonna quote Fluffee now: "What if god CREATED evolution?"
Hahahah xD
KalKyuLayTor 1 year ago
Reddit you sexy thang you.
jimmyslaysdragons 1 year ago 6
yo reddit!!
roranjan33 1 year ago 7
sup reddit
hc1153 1 year ago 7
How is he holding onto that platypus without getting smacked with that poisonous spur?
GlryX 1 year ago 6
i'm guessing it's female since males are the ones with venom in their spurs.
defacedlawngnome 1 year ago 4
Only the males have the spur the females do not have it.
kiwiboi55 1 year ago 2
@GlryX practice.
486609 1 year ago
Perhaps it was de-spurred.
eXcommunicate1979 1 year ago
@GlryX Only one sex has the spur. Females possibly?
domazocine 1 year ago
@GlryX I wikipedia'd it. They both have spurs but only the males have venom.
domazocine 1 year ago
@GlryX All the animals love David Attenborough and would never harm him!
dotzvbjnp 1 year ago 2
he might be holding a female. their spurs aren't venomous but i imagine it would still hurt...
stevenr21 1 year ago
@GlryX
Only male platypi have the poisonous spur, so he is likely holding on to a female.
leafsfan416 1 year ago
@GlryX
Just a guess, but it could either be a female platypus (only males have the spur) or it's possible that that platypus has been despurred.
Xenogyst 1 year ago
@GlryX It is only the males that are venomous, so he may have been holding a female.
dRedN 1 year ago
only the one sex have the poisonous spur, i'm 50% sure it's the male
esbenablack 1 year ago
@GlryX
Good question. It's most likely a female. Only the males have spurs.
BeggsieJ 1 year ago
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i am fucking sick of seeing hateful debates of creationism / evolution whenever i watch these kinds of films. to each his own, FFS!
tsutomukun 1 year ago
Evolution has been proven to exist; creationism has not. Why hasn't God created more? And why is there no evidence of this?
BECAUSE ITS NOT REAL.
ovenroastedDC 1 year ago 40
Here is how I see it. The universe is approx. 40 billion years old, and humanity is about 40,000. It is not super important about the amount of exact years, just the difference - which is enormous. So in universe time, humanity will have lived (because if nothing else gets us, the sun will eventually go out) we will have existed for a blink of an eye. Now look at religion and creationism again, stop being a narcissist, it is not about us. if we are so important then what is the rest all about?
nowayandnohowx 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Just because the President of the United States does not come to your house for dinner or calls you on the phone, does not mean he doesn't exist. And he is just a puny human. Imagine the same logic with any other celebrity, king or rock star.
God does not need to prove to you that he exists, who do you think you are? To Him you are no different than the other billions of people who live here. God already proved his existence, he left all the information you need to know.
The rest is up to you.
ChickenBot 1 year ago
The Flying Spaghetti Monster does not need to prove to you that he exists, who do you think you are? To Him you are no different than the other billions of people who live here. The Flying Spaghetti Monster already proved his existence, he left all the information you need to know.
The rest is up to you.
lownotelee 1 year ago 7
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Ah, yes. The good old Flying Spagetti Monster...also known as the imbecile demi-god.
An imbecil god for an imbecil crowd, the atheists.
Keep praying to your FSM maybe he'll molest you with his noodle appendage. ;P
ChickenBot 1 year ago
or we could go to churches and be molested by priests
gambatteeee 1 year ago 5
What an incredibly fallacious argument by ChickenBot. We have physical, concrete evidence that the President and "any other celebrity, king or rock star" exists. Nobody is arguing whether or not actual human beings exist.
Yet there is just as much evidence for the existence of Yahweh as there is for Osiris, Thor, Jupiter, Xenu, Yoruba or any other host of thousands of gods people have worshipped in our ~200,000 years. What "proof" do you have of your God's existence? That manwritten book?
Quasiqueasy 1 year ago 2
if I may add, it's a collection of fairy tales and family records for the jews. All founded by a delusional mentally ill person that heard voices that told him to kill his son and that he was super special... in fact he and his offspring are forever super special and better than all other people... forever.
o0flip0o 1 year ago
The Flying Spaghetti Monster came to me in a dream and left all the information that I needed to know. He's real even though He does not come to your house for dinner or calls you on the phone...Prove me wrong.
palmer045 1 year ago 2
I, too, have been touched by his noodly appendage.
B4rK0d3 1 year ago 2
@ChickenBot By that logic, just because I have never seen Jack or his beanstalk, doesn't mean he doesn't exist! He's left all his evidence in a book!!! BRB worshiping Jack and his beanstalk
ovenroastedDC 1 year ago 2
That's creepy as hell.
ru2118 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I don't quite understand why belief in God and belief in evolution have to be separate. What if God had a hand in evolution and actually helped guide it? Besides, I don't think a creator would really want his creation to be the same century after century. It would be much more fun to watch it change and grow.
smeegle24 1 year ago
Sadly, many people believe that since the Christian bible says that a god made Earth in a week and that god made Adam and friends, that evolution can't be true since that would make the bible wrong. We have nothing written that a god did have a hand in evolution. There is no proof, just guesses and supposition. To think about it, I really do not want people who hadn't yet invented internal plumbing telling me their opinion about the nature of how we came to be.
zavatone 1 year ago 19
Because that is naive.
goletasb 1 year ago
Actually, it's not. It's reasonable; trying to find a comprise between two radically different beliefs that actually makes sense is not naive. Refusing to even consider other possibilities is foolish.
smeegle24 1 year ago
Evolution makes sense. Creation does not. Read "The Greatest Show on Earth". It explains why creation doesn't make sense. For one, who made the creator?
Jingign1 1 year ago 4
its so cool that platapus is technically a dinosaur! i always thought platapus was baby manatee XD
ryanlaing 1 year ago
@ryanlaing: Where in the world did you get that? The platypus is not technically (or any other way) a dinosaur; the best that can be said is that they share a amphibian as a common ancestor. The platypus is a monotreme mammal, meaning that it is a mammal for all features, but that it lays eggs rather than giving live birth. Phylogenetically it is a primitive (meaning early) mammal, even earlier than marsupials.
puncheex 1 year ago
That platypus is friggin' cute.
monkeyman1140 1 year ago 2
Perspicacity! What a great word. Intellectual vocabularies FTW!!!
RDLoehrke 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
Sweetmon89 1 year ago
@Sweetmon89 lol... religion
DavidXG360 1 year ago 2
i bet if you dig far enough in your medicine cabinet you will find your pills to help fight off your craziness
midbc 1 year ago 5
no. all you would find is heat and magma.
man, what is WITH you people?
blackmanfu 1 year ago
I find it so depressing that there are people living today who believe in creationism as ardently as people from the victorian era.
morphinemoniza 2 years ago 31
Even more so, it's horrifying.
IMMUNEHUMAN 1 year ago
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Isn't it more depressing to believe that there is nothing after death? That we come from nothing and go in to nothing when it's all said and done? I personally find that idea much more depressing than being created by a higher being and having multiple lives and going back to Him after death one day.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
that's sad.........do you have the ability to use simple reasoning
midbc 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku that's not depressing at all. like, at all at all. eternity is a punishment. Ever hear of Sisyphus?
Pocketlint3 1 year ago 3
Yes, but the eternal I speak of is not punishment. It is immortality unlike any a scientist can attempt to make. It is a spiritual form unlike the material body. It is who we once were, before we decided we wanted to be God. God, in His mercy, gave us freewill, and it is with this free will that the scientists are creating, making "the modern world," and forgetting God. Spiritual teachers are also trying to bring us back to God, and religious are only listening to these teachers.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku No. What that should tell you is that this is all you have got. Like a carton of milk, you have a shelf life. Knowing that we all have a limited time here, do bigger and greater than you think you can and give the world an excuse to justify your existence. And then in the end, when it's all over, you can look back and realize that You did it all. If you realize it's just you looking out for you and not some god makes your choices for you, you can do great things.
zavatone 1 year ago
@zavatone you do realize you can believe in evolution AND God. your polarization of these two things is incorrect.
killmypcd 1 year ago
I'm sure you can. But you didn't tell my why my view is incorrect. I'm telling Morphinemoniza, that if you act like there isn't a god looking out for you, and you choose to accomplish more, then at the end of it all, you realize that you did do it all yourself. What's wrong with that? I go to Africa every year and drink beer and help out kids not because a god wants me to, but because it is AWESOME. Self determination is a wonderful and powerful thing. Try it sometime. 100% Jesus free.
zavatone 1 year ago 18
Existentialism. WOOT WOOT
Jingign1 1 year ago
You can do so many great things, but when you die, you do not take any of those things with you. Don't lump me into a stereotype of religious people. I choose to believe what I believe in, based on holy writ and people I respect, just like you believe in the Big Bang because of textbooks and scientists. As for happiness, we each seek it, religious or not. If I find mine in an eternal figure of authority and goodness, so? At least my happiness has a chance of lasting longer than 1 human life.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago 2
That's the point. You're DEAD after all. Contribute to humanity by leaving the place a better place because you were there. Also I do not "believe" in or have faith in science. Valid science is supported by evidence that has been tested and validated. I simply follow that results of that evidence. I stopped believing in Thor, Vishnu, Xenu, the forest spirit and the Christian/Catholic god a long time ago.
zavatone 1 year ago 3
You cannot see proof of God until you are willing to listen to people who know God. They have His "license," what He looks like, what He does, etc. But you are a stranger. Would you show a stranger your friend's personal information? No. First, you must be willing to listen. That's great that you want to contribute to humanity; but even an animal dies having contributed to others. I think humans, w/ higher intelligence, can strive for more in life, and reach beyond material boundaries.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku I'm not an outsider. I was raised Catholic. But if you've been paying attention to Ireland, Germany and Brazil, many of those who have "his license" are also child molesters. This brings up the point of why would a god let and of his mouthpieces be molesters and why would he allow the pope in 1964 to shield these abusers? The fish stinks as if it were rotten from the head down. Or at least parts of it. Honestly, I think I can do a better job on my own.
zavatone 1 year ago 3
When I say license, I am not meaning every single priest or guru or shaman or what have you that may outwardly appear to be an agent of God. I am talking about people who are pure, as those men who have abused children obviously aren't. Those child abusers are like wolf wearing the skin of a sheep - they are false agents. Unfortunately it is not easy to find true agents of God, but that is one reason to read scripture - the highest scriptures define for us, who is a true agent, and who is not.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku The fact that these pedophiles hide in the church and are actually sheltered by the church should tell you something. I've read scripture and even if it is true and doesn't conflict itself and doesn't even include all the gospels of the day, the organization called the Catholic Church is corrupt. And if there is a god and he lets this happen in THE organization that speaks for him, well, he's a lazy bastard or he is morally corrupt or he's simply not there. Camon man. Think.
zavatone 1 year ago
@zavatone I believe religion's purpose is to revive our innate love for God; those organizations that go corrupt lose sight of this purpose. It is not that God "lets this happen," it is that the people in these organizations are misusing free will. God gave us free will and this world because we wanted a place where we could exert our power. It is not God's fault; it is ours. True spiritual agents of God who know Him have been sent by Him to bring those willing back home, to God.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku And I believe that religion served(es) as an attempt to explain the unknown and as a set of guides to allow tribal, warring groups to live together in a society without killing themselves, now to do basic sanitation and how to eat foods that would not leave you full of worms.
We are WAAAY past those times now. And many religions' basic concepts serve as guides for these principles. Let's move past old religions, each of which says it is the only ultimate truth.
zavatone 1 year ago
@zavatone Let's agree to disagree. Lumping religions together tho, to me, seems as stupid as chickenbot's comment on atheists.
My religion is not "behind" or "the only way." The way I see the "behind" ness is that spiritual agents, i.e. Jesus, preached according to their times; so not everything they said is appropriate for right now.
I believe that there ARE current spiritual agents of God residing on-earth. People are taking instruction from them, not just holy books.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku You know that God does not exist, it's just a pure power of Imagination. Why do you force it ? If some people in the past had the possibility to imagine things which afterwards they advertised it and boosted until the point that more people believed it than those who didn't believed then why shouldn't anybody else imagine and advertise the same way like these "poets" (prophets) did ? So I can easily say that in the night while you sleep, your TV goes for a walk in the city :-j
neobarockloki86 1 year ago
holy writ = fail textbooks = education
grenangle 1 year ago
@ theultimateotaku: I think life is more precious because we only get to live and experience this world once. And in a way, we continue to live on through our species. Which is why it's scientists trying to prevent the devastating effects of problems like global warming while most religious nutcases refuse to even acknowledge there's a problem. Also, human beings come from a rich and complex history of evolution. We are a part of a natural history greater than ourselves.
morphinemoniza 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@ morphinemoniza, I think that human life specifically is extra precious because we have the intelligence to seek God. By not seeking spirituality, we are no better than the animals, eating, mating, fighting and defending. Scientists are trying to help the material bodies of humans, but religious figures (SOME) are trying to help our souls, which survive forever, unlike our bodies. God gave humanity his intelligence, his body, and the wonders of the world. They are here due to God, not you.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku: Religion is the result of fear not sprirituality of intelligence. When confronted with the inexplicable human beings turned to religion to either explain it or to find some way of protecting themselves. We have better and more rational means of doing so now because as a species we accumulated enough knowledge to understand the natural phenomenons that occur around us without having to turn to mythology and fiction.
morphinemoniza 1 year ago
@ morphine, MY religion is not about fear. You say religion = ignorance. But science continually rejects anything immaterial, whereas religion accepts + knows the material + transcends it. A scientist cannot even see into a closed-off room without devices. God sees + knows all (ex: our purpose. Do scientists know it? No). Who, then, is more powerful + intelligent? God. He is even kind enough to give you freewill to turn against Him. I would put my trust in God over you or any scientist.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
religion is MADE UP. God is as fictional as donald duck. Science is based on proof, You can't compare the two because there is no basis for comparison. If I want to read a good story I'll read the bible but if I want to find out about how this world came to be the way it is I;ll watch documentaries about evolution rather than reading Genesis.
morphinemoniza 1 year ago 3
just to clarify, When I say "god" i mean the entity created by man. There might be some sort of creator out there somewhere. but it is highly unlikely he/it/she/they have anything to do with organised religion.
morphinemoniza 1 year ago
Well, at least you believe in God. One question: So if you believe there is a creator, then why can't that creator have arranged evolution and Darwin discovered it? I can understand having problems with people's methods of religion, which may seem lackluster or dogmatic. But do you have a problem with the idea that people are trying to get closer to this creator? Surely you can't object to their intent, since you acknowledge an inward belief in a higher being.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
You are generalizing, saying religion = dogma and greed. I think real religions are different frames by which people try to see + know the same thing: God. Scientists are experts in science; similarly, why cannot there be experts in spirituality? I believe that true knowers of God exist, and they can prove things, if people just listen. They do not care for the outside trappings of religion - God's names, creation, whatever. All they want is to get you closer to God.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
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puncheex 1 year ago
@puncheex your link doesn't work, sorry.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
Comment removed
puncheex 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku: It would appear that YouTube is puncturing their own URLs. Wierd.
Use this key: UcrJ2HFKogs
Or use the one above, and where the capital K is in the URL, type in a capital K right over it.
puncheex 1 year ago
@puncheex hi, I watched your video. It's a typical atheist argument that religion is "old fashioned" and that "people back then" took it up because they were fearful and ignorant. I've already discussed this; see my discussion with morphinemoniza. The author of your linked video says, "But a good parent never fills its child with shame, or an inferiority complex." What this says to me, is that people want to blame God for their problems, instead of admitting that things might be their fault.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@puncheex "But a good parent never fills its child with shame, or an inferiority complex." says this to me: Because mainstream Christian religion has the idea of "we are all sinners", atheists have decided to say that, "Oh that is so cruel, so I'm not going to believe in your God." But atheists believe in cause and effect, right? So therefore, what you do affects what will happen to you in the future. The "shame and inferiority" we may feel, that's not God's punishment. It's your mind.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@puncheex The maker of your link vid is trying to blame God by saying "He's a bad parent, so he doesn't exist, so we must've created Him b/c of fear," but why would we feel fear, unless we knew something was wrong? Wouldn't you agree that you feel fear when something is "off"? IMO we know, inherently, that we don't belong here. The crap that we go thru in life, you can say it's God's fault or just life, but ppl wouldn't be so fearful if we were w/ God, where we belong.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku: I don't know what video you were watching but there are no such quotes in it. He says at one point, after talking about the universe's impartiality: "We are not born into any shame. To say we are is a crime against humanity. We inflict shame on ourselves to atone for our imperfections, while trying to be more perfect than we can be." He says nothing of parents, nor of blaming anyone for it other than ourselves. ...
puncheex 1 year ago
Comment removed
puncheex 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
... And as you noted he doesn't believe in god, so what would be the point in saying he's a bad parent, or anthropomorphizing him at all? Neither of us blame god for anything.
So,
- You logic needs some work; you even sound somewhat paranoid, as if he were attacking you.
- You evidence nothing of your beliefs, particularly that last statement.
- You need to learn that when you put something in quotes, it had better be a literal quote, not what you heard through your Bible glasses.
puncheex 1 year ago
@puncheex First of all, I am not a Bible reader. Secondly, the quote that I used was in his vid description. I don't know why he called God whom he doesn't believe "parent", but it's probably b/c he's talking to religious ppl. I am not attacking him; I am merely replying to his video, which you linked me to, assumedly b/c you desired a response.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku: The remark about Bible glasses is a Ken Ham reference. Ignore it, but hold the rest.
I must apologize; Philhellenes does mention parents in his intro, and I missed that. However, note what he says exactly: "Like children, we WILL love what takes our fear away as if it WERE our parent. But a good parent never fills its child with shame, or an inferiority complex." He didn't say god is bad parent; he's saying: ...
puncheex 1 year ago
@puncheex I argued in my last comment against the linked vid's idea that we created God to protect us from our fear of the unknown and that, being more knowledgeable than we were in the past, we need fear less and don't need God anymore. What I am saying is that fear and other negative emotions are not God's fault, they are ours. I vouched for the concepts of reincarnation and karma, which suggest that we have multiple bodies as an eternal soul, and in each body we rack up karma.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku Let me clarify: by "multiple bodies", I obviously don't mean we have multiple bodies all at once! Our souls travels from body to body according to our karma.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@puncheex Therefore by the law of karma, we follow the rule of cause and effect. Atheists believe in cause and effect, right? Well, as you cause miseries to others, so you gain misery. Reincarnation expands this cause+effect concept by saying, the miseries we suffer in this body which may seem to be undeserved or "God's fault", are in fact the effect of our having caused miseries to others in *previous lives*.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@puncheex I also argued that rather than God being something we made up which orginated from our fear and ignorance, our *need*, that our *need* for God and our separation from Him, whom we are meant to be with, is the *cause* of our having fear at all. God gave us free will b/c we asked for it, we wanted power. This world was made just for us to have our powerplay. But now we are miserable. Instead of seeking God to help us out of our misery, we blame Him.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@puncheex If we truly had power to control this material universe and its energies, to control our lives, wouldn't we be happy all the time? You want to be happy, don't you? I am arguing that people, who are *still* fearful regardless of all our knowledge and advancement, should seek God, b/c God, being *truly* all-powerful, can help us gain eternal happiness. This eternal happiness can be ours when we seek a true agent of God who can guide us back to our original home, where God is.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@puncheex I watched the video you linked me to, called "God: The Love Born of Terror" by philhellenes. Isn't this what you meant me to watch? It has UcrJ2HFKogs at the end of the URL. His quote that I used is in his vid description, and it *IS* similar to the quote of his that you gave, *not* contrary. He is arguing against the religionists that say, "We were born sinners", and is saying that God is not loving, but a product of fear. I have already discussed this with you in my above comments.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@theultimateotaku: Yes, that is the video that I invited you to watch. Again, I apologize for not recognizing what you said as part of his introduction. Further, I still think that your conclusions drawn from what he said were erroneous, as I said above. I agree that fear is our own fault, in the same way as having two hands is, but it is part of our nature and guilt shouldn't play into it. The fear was necessary in times past. ...
puncheex 1 year ago
... I think I agree with your sinner conclusion, though I think it goes deeper than that. Do you think what he says in the video applies to your religion (Hindu, I would guess) or not?
puncheex 1 year ago
@puncheex Btw, YouTube is not posting my comments in order; my analogy comment begins w/ "here's my analogy" and continues w/ "God wants us back." You say you may agree w/ my sinner conclusion, but you think it goes deeper. Say more? I think that nothing philhellenes says applies to my religion or *any* religion. I do not believe that, as he argues, we evolved fearful and God is our "monster under the bed", or that Thales' eclipse prediction means we are more/equally powerful as God. I disagree.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago
@puncheex I took notes on philhellenes vid this time. He says that we suffer w/o logic, so the gods are cruel, and Thales' eclipse prediction, since God or priests didn't predict it, means a regular human has God's power. I think that's total BS. I believe any power we have comes from God. All of our traits, even our features, come from God himself. And all of our miseries come from the impermanency of this world we chose to come to. Our miseries are part of life, yes, but we make them worse.
theultimateotaku 1 year ago