Its a good thing that God and Jesus don't lie. For there truth has stood the test of time of all eternity. Which we can trust His Holy Word and not men who always try to change it.
@ProfMTH I'm curious about your position. His responses are somewhat childish and not very professional in that regard but are nevertheless informative.
Why don't you think that his videos refute some of the videos you made?
I'm not a scholar but his representation of the Bible passages you attack seems plausible enough.
@d007ization When TektonTV initially started making responses to some of my videos, I tried to engage him in public discussion in the comments under those reponses. In those discussions, I attempted to set forth some rejoinders to his claims and to question him on the some of the points he made. My comments were very quickly placed on restriction (many were deleted). Tekton's responses were largely invective-laden attempts to avoid the issues. And he wanted me to go to some website that he...
(con't) ...frequents (which I'd never heard of) in order to continue the discussions--away from YouTube, of course. It became clear that further attempts at substantive engagement would be a waste of time. (Assuming he hasn't deleted all or most of my comments, you should be able to see some of what I wrote in the comments sections.) This was a while ago, so I don't recall all the specific weaknesses in his responses and I've stopped watching. If you'd like to identify a specific video...
@ProfMTH First of: He said himself he wouldn't allow continoued messages. That's his policy...
Let's take for example your vid on easter: Your entire argument is based on that Deuteronomy passage. He addresses this pretty well when he says that this only refers to the service to a particular god(s).
Man Lee Strobel is a nut job ....a wing nut .....lunatic ...do you see the difference ...NO.I do not mean to seem mean on this but I trully think the guy is Functionally Insane.One thing I notice in watching many debates and doucumentaries,is that they argue in circles.Every last one of them.From Apologetics..Creationism..Christians in general arguing facts and discrepencies in the bible,arguing about the gospells,and the historical evidence for even the existence of Jesus.They distort and lie
BUT... none of these people actually existed so no-one died for anything. It is a completely ridiculous argument.
The Romans invented Jesus Christianity and therefore invented Jesus Christ. The gospels where written after 70 AD and the story was back-dated to a generation before.
This means that Paul never existed and his letters where back-dated to before 70 AD also.
Interesting series. I had never really considered this. Of course I'm not much of a Biblical scholar either so that has a lot to do with it. Even going through Catholic school all 12 (13 with kindergarten) I never really got into the study of the Bible. We got the watered down "good" version only. When I finally began reading the Bible I read the OT and quit after the Gospels. Tired of the nonsense. I was never devout, but reading the Bible made me a devout unbeliever in less than a day.
Your mentioing the "good version" made me laugh. I'm wondering whether you mean the old "Good New for Modern Men." If so, that was the Bible I was given in my early years in Catholic school, too. But unlike you, as time went on, my Catholic education did have a significant biblical component.
@ProfMTH We didn't even have our own Bibles. We had our religious classes and honestly I can barely remember what they were about. Some were themed like "Death and Dying", but others were like a weird cartoon book sort of class. We'd get Noah, Lent, stations of the cross, etc. Never real Bible reading. Half of the time we watched movies. Disney movies more often than not. Our books were always thin paperbacks with the major holiday stories and child reading. I'm laughing just thinking about it.
@Reip187 I remember one class was called "Mind, Body, and Soul". You will love this. We had to make a video showing all 3. My group put it off and even got an extension because we didn't care. Eventually we made the move and it was 4 of us guys. I wore a belt around my nipples and a the other guy wore a dress and we had a gay marriage, although it was supposed to be traditional. Our effort was too poor so it looked gay. Teacher gave us a D- and said "there are no gay marriages in the Bible."
@Reip187 I remember one class was called "Mind, Body, and Soul". You will love this. We had to make a video showing all 3. My group put it off and even got an extension because we didn't care. Eventually we made the move and it was 4 of us guys. I wore a belt around my nipples and a the other guy wore a dress and we had a gay marriage, although it was supposed to be traditional. Our effort was too poor so it looked gay. Teacher gave us a D- and said "there are no gay marriages in the Bible."
@Reip187 He gave us the D- because someone dressed up and wore a dress. LOL
They were all like religious art classes. Make silly themed stories on religious principles and that sort of thing. Never Bible study. Just condensed versions of Bible stories and lessons on the "morals of the story".
@Reip187 I mean we meant it to be traditional, but we had 2 men getting married with little effort to show one was female. He assumed we were doing a gay marriage. Wouldn't even show it to the class. Tried to convince him that even if it were a gay marriage the assignment was to show the 3 elements, which we did. He was not amused. I believe he told us about how gay people go to Hell after that and we just took it.
All the Jews would have done to abrogate Christianity was to simply produce the body of Jesus. What they, nor the Romans could not do, YouTubers want to do today; deny Jesus as the messiah; the saviour of the world; the Son of the living God. Well, God help us.
You know what bothers me about this crucifixion nonsense? The whole thing was supposed to be "the ultimate sacrifice", right? Well, WTF did he sacrifice? Jesus dies, spends three days in Heaven (the ultimate paradise), then comes back completely alive.
Isn't this whole argument begging the question? "The disciples did, in fact, see a bodily resurrected Jesus, therefore Jesus rose from the dead." Of course! If you grant the former half of that statement, then you've already proven your point. But these apologists have not proven the former half.
You will not be moved.You have faith in your own beliefs,but not for the USA. As long as that shows free speech.Be thankful you have it.China would shoot you if you exercised any there.
"If he came back from the dead he is authenticating his claim to be the son of god." -Lee Strobel
Uh. No. Even if he died and came back from the dead, if would have no voracity to his claim to be the son of a god. And it wouldn't be proof that there was even a god. And it certainly shouldn't be used as a moral compass to follow and do whatever he said.
@yillow1 We know Lazarus didn't come back from the dead. Otherwise we'd see Lazarus in his deathless body would walk the earth in 2011 like a character from "Highlander."
I dont think we even have the evidence that Jesus was even real, none the less had 12 disciples. The entire Christian story is nothing more then an astrology story. The 12 disciples representing the 2 signs of the zodiac. Lee Stroble whom I read his works in college, were nothing more the straw man arguments. Once one digs deeper into all this his entire augments can be easily disputed
Who cares how or why these most likely fictional characters died, at least they're dead. They supported one of the most evil lies to ever plague mankind.
How do we know the apostles died WILLINGLY? After they were blamed for the great fire of Rome, they were considered a terrorist organization, so Rome quickly rounded up their leaders (the apostles) and executed them, like any state would do. They weren't given a choice to recant their religious beliefs, because it wasn't a religious issue. It was political. Their crime was treason, not blasphemy, which makes that first wave of persecutions fundamentally different from future ones.
@slickwick45 After rereading my comment, it sounds like I'm claiming those things as facts, but they're not. I just used logic. If Rome thought that the Christians deliberately set the fire, then they would be considered terrorists, and if they're considered terrorists, Rome isn't going to let them off just for recanting their faith. Would the USA let Bin Laden off if he recanted his faith in Islam? Not a chance. So why would Rome, a civilization that CRUCIFIED people, do it?
@slickwick45 There's nothing in Roman history, as far as I know, that says that Christians were killed for not recanting their faith in that first wave of executions immediately preceding the first Jewish Revolt. It just says that Nero blamed the fire on the Christians.
If I made up a lie and went around spreading it, and the authorities captured me and told me they were going to crucify me or burn me at the stake unless I recanted -- I'd recant. That's a no-brainer.
@OneEyedJack1970 unless you considered your lie was in fact a "spiritual" truth...but..a literal lie..you might be inclined to think your "lie" was going to help people...and since you had already built your reputation on this...you could recant..but youd be destroying the life you had worked so hard to build...given this desperation...one might feel forced to die...not because your convicitons were true or false...but because they were YOUR convictions
Yes I saw the later sections. Very well done sir. It totally obliterates the "wouldn't die for a lie" argument. I can't imagine even Lee Strobel making this argument in the face of these arguments..
what about some cults - there are several examples of people dying for a cult they belong to, is the cult a lie? do they think it's truth? do they know the cult is lying to them? why does it even matter? aren't we to believe in the Risen Lamb of GOD the CREATOR rather than what the disciples did or didn't do? what about the thousands of early Christian martyrs who willingly died for their faith in Jesus Christ? did their deaths not count or were they not as important as the disciples?
@33point3 It seems you don't understand the "they wouldn't die for a lie" argument, which is troubling since it was explained in some detail in this portion of the series. Did you watch the video? The idea is that, as Lee Strobel said, the original apostles--"the Twelve" as it were--were in, as Strobel says, a unique position because, unlike other believers, they didn't merely believe that Jesus had been raised from the dead, but they saw and interacted with a physically resurrected Jesus. ...
(con't) @33point3 ... Advocates of the "they wouldn't die for a lie" argument are willing to concede--as Strobel does in the video clip I played in this part of the series--that every other religious believer who has not had the (purportedly) unique experience of the original apostles could have been wrong, could have been misled. But those original apostles, Strobel says, "they knew the truth" because they'd witnessed and interaacted with the resurrected Jesus and knowing this "truth", the...
We shouldnt ignore the element of Panterro's influence. General Panterro. Jesus' natural father(suggested) It had been suggested that there may have been a recovery from the cross rather than a resurection. Was this indeed the man who offered Jesus Nations(tempter). Would they die for a lie? Doubtful, but its all to plausible they would die for a false belief. The difference being that they may not have been aware of the suckerplay. Doesnt make them liars, but doesnt make them correct either.
People that stir up trouble for the government end up dead. They are not given the option of changing their minds, or recanting their claims, and then set free. WHEN has that EVER happened in all of recorded history?
Everything you say is based on the assumption that the Bible is true but there is no proof that it is. Don't you think a god who is powerful enough to create the universe could come up with a better way to communicate with his creatures then an old book written by people? We never see god, hear god, or have any kind of interaction with god but you believe in him. You claim we will find out about god after death, well that's really convenient. There is no virtue in lying in the name of god.
LOL. 10s of millions died for a belief/lie in the 1940s. Doesnt make it true, its only a belief. None of the apostles ever wrote anything so it is never factually recorded anyway.
1.There is insufficient evidence to qualify there even being eye witness accounts.
2.Eye witness accounts are among the worst kinds of evidence.
3.Fugue states are an example of where someone can not only actively engage in double think to fool their conscious, but even fool their sub conscious.
4.People can be extremely mistaken about personal experiences, and groups often enhance this effect.
5.Mental illness is linked to religiosity, and at that time nobody understood mental illness.
Those people were in the opium field. They could easily have all been completly hallucinating. Dying for something you believe you saw means nothing without proper psychologic analyse of their states.
@xeena67 I can't believe why anyone would put a smiley face behind THE END OF THE WORLD.
And they've been saying he's coming 'soon' since the very first years of Christianity. Jesus himself even says in the Bible, when he was supposedly "alive", that "this generation will not pass away until all of this has come to pass" and you know what? They're all dead.
I'm not going to waste my life waiting with glee for the utter ANNIHILATION and DESTRUCTION of our planet. Let's move on, shall we?
@viridismonasteriense you can move on if you like BUT if you know anything about the Bible then you would know that the things that must come to pass started with Israel becoming a nation which didn't happen until 1948 so I'll keep waiting. :))
@xeena67 There's no reason to believe anything in scripture is actually referring to Israel becoming a nation. So dream on.
It's one thing to just observe, it's another to gleefully await. People who can't wait for the world to end are dangerous. MYou revel in apocalypse and the deaths of millions? More smiley faces? Please stay away from me.
@viridismonasteriense don't worry, I will never cross your path. Christians don't literally sit & wait. We do live our lives in joy & happiness in peace
@xeena67 Yet you still talk with glee about the apocalypse you think is just around the corner, which you "know", because it says so in your holy book, will involve countless deaths and the end of everything we know and hold dear.
What disgusts me is that you think of millions dying and suffering and you picture this as a happy event deserving of a smiley face. How does that make you different from a serial killer?
@viridismonasteriense you have NO clue what I think. I'll dare you judge me! There is a reason there is many suffering & dying. I pray for them a lot. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME. I have had enough of your comments so I am blocking you. You obviously, from the looks of your channel, are bored again. Why don't YOU try reading the Bible then you just might understand & YES I long for the day that Jesus comes & takes his people from this miserable existence.
@xeena67 No, I don't know you. All I said is based on your comments. All I said was, basically: "How can anyone look forward to mass-destruction and slaughter and think that's a good thing and how does this desire for destruction make you any different from a psychopath longing for blood?" Is that not an honest question?
You focus on the so-called positive aspect of the apocalypse, the salvation part, but I know that you know what happens to everyone who is not saved and you're okay with that
@ProfMTH Some Christians believe that Mary had to remain virginal and to consider James to be the "brother" of Jesus (as the NT clearly states) is blasphemous... so they insert "Step" in front of "Brother" to imply that Jesus' brothers and sisters MUST have been the children of (supposedly widower) Joseph from a previous marriage... Since Christians are accustomed to making up things as they go, it is perfectly in line with their delusion.
@xephyr1000 Catholics claim that James was step brother of Jesus because the Gospels admit that Joseph was not the only husband to Mary consider reading Mark 3;18. I hold that Alphaeus father of James is actually Zacharias, which makes John the Baptist and James the Just brothers.
@beholdtheageofold I know what catholics "claim", and don't care. The texts do NOT imply any "step" in the relationship. PERIOD. I also find it hilarious that christians of any flavor will use apologetics (the ART OF MAKING UP EXCUSES) to explain away obvious contradictions such as names.
@xephyr1000 Considering that Alphaeus being another name used other then Joseph quoted in Matt 1. A step must be used if a person is going to use the Catholic perspective of separating the two characters. Its not an excuse there allegation is seen in Mark 3;18.
@caseagainstfaith I tried to lay out as thorough a case against this argument as possible. If I were to do it again, I would probably shorten it up, but at the time it seemed important to cover the salient angles as meticulously and thoroughly as possible.
"It is claimed the group was composed of eyewitnesses..."
The key word in that sentence is CLAIMED. The evidence of these so-called eyewitness accounts of the resurrected Jesus is flimsy at best. In fact, the only evidence AT ALL for these accounts can be found in the Gospels...mutually contradicting accounts, written decades after the events they describe. By any legal definition, that would be classed as extremely weak and unreliable evidence.
"Did the disciples die for a lie"? This is a blatant false dichotomy. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that the only possibilities here are a) Jesus rose from the dead, or b) Jesus didn't rise from the dead, but the disciples deliberately lied and said that he did? The most likely scenario is neither of those two options. What IS likely is that no one actually saw Jesus resurrected - they merely heard rumours about the event, and let the strength of their belief convince them it was true.
The 12 men contributed to the NT? Does he mean by inspiring scriptures? The writers of the NT never met Christ or his 12 disciples, correct me if I'm wrong. Mark 16, John 20, Matthew 28, and Luke 24 aren't the same. So much for trust.
@truthforchrist You were talking about the apostles and NT writers. I explained that the NT writers got their stories from hearsay. What's there not to understand? I have other fun stuff to do bye.
"The fact is, the writters of the NT did meet and learn from Jesus."
The fact is, that's bullshit. All the evidence points to the Gospels being written several decades after Jesus died, by people who never knew him, and relied on unsubstantiated stories to write about him. The last Gospel was written 70-80 years after Jesus died. If John was a contemporary of Jesus, he would have been 110 years old...during a time when the average life expectancy was only 30!
@garethac81 All of the NT writtings (except John) were written before 70 AD. ALl the evidence supports that. We have a fragment of Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings).
Sorry, that simply isn't true. The majority of neutral scholars date the Gospels as follows:
Mark: 65-73 AD
Matthew: 70-85 AD
Luke: 80-100 AD
John: 90-110 AD
That dates the earliest Gospel at least 35 years after Jesus' death. Which begs the question: Why would any eyewitness of the resurrection wait over THREE DECADES (let alone 40-80 years) to write about it?
@garethac81 Having seen the manuscript with my own eyes, and having attended several scholar conventions, I can tell you exactly what the majority of scholars have concluded. 1) None of the Gospels mention the destruction of the second temple (and even some writtings alude to it still standing) is very strong evidence that they were all written before 70 AD. 2) to answer your other question, the Gospels were never supposed to the written. They were always supposed to be oral tradition.
Were your "scholarly conventions" hosting Christian theologians, or neutral, unbiased historians? "The Gospels were never supposed to be written"? That answer would suffice if the Gospels were NEVER written down...however, it does nothing to explain why the Gospel writers would wait several decades and then, suddenly, decide to start writing.
@garethac81 I broad range of people attended. Anyone who is a scholar, or in the process of becomming a scholar were invited. Some of the people there are Christian theologians with a PHD in Koine Greek / Hebrew / History ect... Other people were athiests who also had (or are in the process of getting) a PHD in the above subjects. I don't have a PHD, but I'm in the program. There are ususally a very wide range of beliefs at these conventions.
@truthforchrist "We have a fragment of Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
Please cite your source for this claim, Truthforchrist. I know it's inaccurate so I'd like to know where you're getting this false information (or if you're just making it up on your own). Thanks.
@ProfMTH This information comes from a convention I was at about 3 years ago. I will try to find a website that talks about it. However, why would you think I'm making it up? I have no interest in lieing to people.
@truthforchrist "This information comes from a convention I was at about 3 years ago. I will try to find a website that talks about it. However, why would you think I'm making it up?"
You've either gotten incorrect information OR you're making it up. Before I can make a reasonable determination about which is the case, I'll need to know whether you have a source for the claim. I know it's not true. As the maker of the claim, the burden is on your to prove it. I'm waiting. Thanks.
@truthforchrist I'm still waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that there exists " a fragment of [the Gospel of] Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
@truthforchrist Still waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that there exists " a fragment of [the Gospel of] Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
@truthforchrist Still waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that there exists " a fragment of [the Gospel of] Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
@ProfMTH Sorry about the late responce. My youtube is glitched that I only see 1 responce (meaning if you respond to a post of mine after someone else, I have no idea you responded to me). I couldn't find a non apologetical webpage (which I'm not about to use as a source). So, the only thing I can do is the next convention I attend, I will have to talk to a few people I know and ask for any information. I wish I could give you a better answer. Again, sorry if you thought I was ignoring you
"I couldn't find a non apologetical webpage (which I'm not about to use as a source)."
Three things. 1st, why did you state the claim so emphatically if you weren't prepared to back it up? 2nd, doesn't the absence of neutral sources for this claim give you reason to doubt its veracity? It should. 3rd, I'd be VERY interested in the apologetic sources that make this claim. Would you identify them? Thanks again.
Lee - "I've looked all throughout history, and can't find anyone that died for a lie..."
I just spilt my beer because its just too funny. I can name 2 examples off the top of my head without a moments thought. Heavens gate + jonestown cult
Lee was born before 1978 and must of heard of that cult on the news, I can't believe he is that dishonest. I was born in 1990 in the UK and know this!
Jim Jones had more than 12 people in his cult too, so I guess he fucking pwnd jesus just on pure numbers.
@DavidTheCatholic All right, David, I've given you enough chances NOT to be a douche bag, but you can't seem to help yourself. So fuck you very much. Have a good life.
@DavidTheCatholic Great argument to defend your ideology!!! wow, you used 80% of your brain.... you destroyed ProfMTH. Thank dog, I mean dog, I mean god... praize jesus goretex.
Well, assuming the huge statement that 11 of 12 of these disciples were killed for their faith, that they wouldn't have escaped it by recanting, etc., my question is this: why did they die at all? Skip "die for a lie" for a second...these people were eyewitnesses to GOD himself walking around. Apparently even Peter is not convincing enough to escape death, with all the miracles he and others were supposedly capable of. They probably pissed the wrong people off and couldn't pray their way out
@charliesplinter According to Acts he was, yes. But he doesn't fulfill the other criteria for the "would they have died for a lie" crowd. I go through this in LAVISH detail in the series, so you should continue to watch.
not the roamans that wanted him dead they had no problen with jesus they were just trying to quiet the jews in that area ? if any one can give me a answer to this question thanks:)
interesting I have a question thought any one can answer it for me ? The jews i think compained to the romans about jesus and wanted him dead right ? after he died and these disciples roamed around the roaman empire after telling there stories about him jesus werent the romans open to other people belifes and religions? so the disciples were not afaid of being killed for them but stayed away from jewish temples of they be stoned or something ?i mean it was the jewish bosses that wanted him dead
How do i know Jesus lives?He lives inside my heart!!!! i feel His presence every day! I see the change he has made in my life.I hear His sweet,tender voice speaking to me every day.That's proof enough for me!
How do you know it's not just another one of his deceitful illusions? May be there was never a Crucifixion? may be there was - and was part of the Devil's plan?
may be the Bible was inspired by the Devil - to trick us into thinking we're on the "good" side while we're not?!!...
So,you think all of us christians are crazy?That's okay.Because when all is aid and done,we will be forever with our Savior and King.......where there is no more pain,fear or turmoil.Then,what will people say?It really won't matter.I hope you are up there with us.I really do.You need to repent and come to Him with a humble heart,man.
That so?Because i have been to many churches,many different denominations,watched much christian TV,had many christian friends and listened to much christian radio.ALL of them believed God could speak to people.Perhaps it is something else you are referring to,because it certainly is not christianity!Peace
@steelersteve36 The speaking is a metaphor for the euphoria they get from their sense of community and acceptance, not actual voices, as you claim to hear.
@Sh0nin nothing personal,but you must think I am a new christian or that I am new to this rodeo.I grew up Assemblies of god,have attended Baptist churches,Church of God in Christ,numerous non-denominational churches,Pentecostal,Charismatic,Presbyterian.....not to mention have had many good teachers that I have sat under such as T.D.Jakes and Pastor John Lindell.The bible teaches very clearly that god speaks to people,as does the christian church.You are sadly mistaken.What religion are you?
Perhaps you don't realize that the description you just gave me denotes a severe obsession, which is a sign of psychosis. Even in your Bible God speaking audibly to the prophets is the exception, not the ordinary (1 Samuel 3:1-10).
Severe obsession,you say?That is an understatement!I am happily and wonderfully in love with Jesus! He has saved my soul,and fills me with His love every day! you can call it what you want,man!
Also,there were periods of time when god was silent,but God indeed spoke to His people on many occasions.From the garden,with Adam and Eve(in which God had very close fellowship with them)to Abraham and the promises He gave,to the disciples to even us today.Call us crazy,psychotic,extremist,whatever you want to call us.We as children of God know him,and He knows us! God bless!
I don't know how I couldn't call you crazy when you equate yourself with Abtraham, a man who almost killed his son because the voices in his head told him to.
shOnin Sure....if you value integrity more than eternity that would make sense.However,pridefully keeping dignity over salvation may not be the wisest course of action! Sure,people will hate you,sure things will not always go well or right.but,in the scope of eternity it is meaningless!
Are you dense? The reasons you think you'll achieve salvation for eternity are dishonest, which is why my integrity keeps me from accepting them. I'm not losing anything by recognizing a lie.
@Sh0nin Oviously you are pretty set in your feelings.God is reaching out to you,but you resist Him.I just hope you find out about Him before it's too late for you.I will pray for you.God bless.
@steelersteve36 Steve...I am on your side. "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!" (Matthew 10:14-15)
@steelersteve36 "Hearing voices" means you "know" what someone is thinking. Like you "know" what your wife is thinking, so you stop and get some bread and milk on the way home. So we know what Jesus is thinking...we "hear" His voice. God bless you brother.
The Messiah was declared to be cut off and then the destruction would come. The destruction came in 70 a.d., so where is your Messiah, doubting Israel?
Daniel 9:26"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
Isa. 53: 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
The whole "Peter as the first pope" thing always a little fishy to me. I mean, the Catholic Church is a SIGNIFICANT departure from "true" christianity as taught in the New Testament. Wafers and wine, the Eucharist, etc. etc. are inventions of man. Why would one of Jesus' closest disciples head a church like this?? It makes no fucking sense!
...What if none of the 12 disciples existed, either? That throws their "wouldn't die for a lie" argument out!
don't even waste your time with a debate cos not all the time you are correct. these wise have already made up there minds to live a life of faith and truth. kee
Friends in the boiler room, repent and believe the Gospel. Above 500 eye witnesses.
Check it out.
1 Corinthians 15:6
Then he (Lord Jesus Christ) appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time
God have mercy on you all and save you from eternal torture.
at987ta 7 hours ago
We don't know that the disciples knew that it was a lie because the words they allegedly spoke were written after they had died.
jcgadfly 2 weeks ago
@jcgadfly YES ! Great point, but xtians won't admit it.
somthinjustaintright 2 weeks ago
Its a good thing that God and Jesus don't lie. For there truth has stood the test of time of all eternity. Which we can trust His Holy Word and not men who always try to change it.
starryskye6829 1 month ago
@starryskye6829 Depending, of course, on which part of the Bible you read...
jcgadfly 1 week ago
Did you watch tektontv's refutation of some of your videos?
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization "Did you watch tektontv's refutation of some of your videos?"
I've seen a few of his responses. I wouldn't call them refutations--they're not. Why do you ask?
ProfMTH 2 weeks ago
@ProfMTH I'm curious about your position. His responses are somewhat childish and not very professional in that regard but are nevertheless informative.
Why don't you think that his videos refute some of the videos you made?
I'm not a scholar but his representation of the Bible passages you attack seems plausible enough.
d007ization 2 weeks ago
@d007ization When TektonTV initially started making responses to some of my videos, I tried to engage him in public discussion in the comments under those reponses. In those discussions, I attempted to set forth some rejoinders to his claims and to question him on the some of the points he made. My comments were very quickly placed on restriction (many were deleted). Tekton's responses were largely invective-laden attempts to avoid the issues. And he wanted me to go to some website that he...
ProfMTH 2 weeks ago
(con't) ...frequents (which I'd never heard of) in order to continue the discussions--away from YouTube, of course. It became clear that further attempts at substantive engagement would be a waste of time. (Assuming he hasn't deleted all or most of my comments, you should be able to see some of what I wrote in the comments sections.) This was a while ago, so I don't recall all the specific weaknesses in his responses and I've stopped watching. If you'd like to identify a specific video...
ProfMTH 2 weeks ago
(con't) ...I'll go back and have another look at it and let you know what my "position" is. Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 weeks ago
@ProfMTH First of: He said himself he wouldn't allow continoued messages. That's his policy...
Let's take for example your vid on easter: Your entire argument is based on that Deuteronomy passage. He addresses this pretty well when he says that this only refers to the service to a particular god(s).
d007ization 2 weeks ago
It just makes you wish that Lee Strobel would be so pious as to die for what he believes in, Ah well, we live in hope
daverigby23 1 month ago
Amazing, 500 people witnessed it, and nobody wrote it down, AT THE TIME
daverigby23 1 month ago
God watches you piss.
Strangerinasland 1 month ago
Man Lee Strobel is a nut job ....a wing nut .....lunatic ...do you see the difference ...NO.I do not mean to seem mean on this but I trully think the guy is Functionally Insane.One thing I notice in watching many debates and doucumentaries,is that they argue in circles.Every last one of them.From Apologetics..Creationism..Christians in general arguing facts and discrepencies in the bible,arguing about the gospells,and the historical evidence for even the existence of Jesus.They distort and lie
copycoonie 3 months ago
BUT... none of these people actually existed so no-one died for anything. It is a completely ridiculous argument.
The Romans invented Jesus Christianity and therefore invented Jesus Christ. The gospels where written after 70 AD and the story was back-dated to a generation before.
This means that Paul never existed and his letters where back-dated to before 70 AD also.
Simple.
Franknarfable 3 months ago
You don't get many Zebedees nowadays, do you. Loads of Peters, Andrews, Matthews and Jameses, but no Zebedees. Shame.
USERNAMEfieldempty 4 months ago
Interesting series. I had never really considered this. Of course I'm not much of a Biblical scholar either so that has a lot to do with it. Even going through Catholic school all 12 (13 with kindergarten) I never really got into the study of the Bible. We got the watered down "good" version only. When I finally began reading the Bible I read the OT and quit after the Gospels. Tired of the nonsense. I was never devout, but reading the Bible made me a devout unbeliever in less than a day.
Reip187 4 months ago in playlist More videos from ProfMTH
@Reip187 I'm glad you found it interesting.
Your mentioing the "good version" made me laugh. I'm wondering whether you mean the old "Good New for Modern Men." If so, that was the Bible I was given in my early years in Catholic school, too. But unlike you, as time went on, my Catholic education did have a significant biblical component.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH We didn't even have our own Bibles. We had our religious classes and honestly I can barely remember what they were about. Some were themed like "Death and Dying", but others were like a weird cartoon book sort of class. We'd get Noah, Lent, stations of the cross, etc. Never real Bible reading. Half of the time we watched movies. Disney movies more often than not. Our books were always thin paperbacks with the major holiday stories and child reading. I'm laughing just thinking about it.
Reip187 4 months ago
@Reip187 I remember one class was called "Mind, Body, and Soul". You will love this. We had to make a video showing all 3. My group put it off and even got an extension because we didn't care. Eventually we made the move and it was 4 of us guys. I wore a belt around my nipples and a the other guy wore a dress and we had a gay marriage, although it was supposed to be traditional. Our effort was too poor so it looked gay. Teacher gave us a D- and said "there are no gay marriages in the Bible."
Reip187 4 months ago
@Reip187 I remember one class was called "Mind, Body, and Soul". You will love this. We had to make a video showing all 3. My group put it off and even got an extension because we didn't care. Eventually we made the move and it was 4 of us guys. I wore a belt around my nipples and a the other guy wore a dress and we had a gay marriage, although it was supposed to be traditional. Our effort was too poor so it looked gay. Teacher gave us a D- and said "there are no gay marriages in the Bible."
Reip187 4 months ago
@Reip187 He gave us the D- because someone dressed up and wore a dress. LOL
They were all like religious art classes. Make silly themed stories on religious principles and that sort of thing. Never Bible study. Just condensed versions of Bible stories and lessons on the "morals of the story".
Reip187 4 months ago
@Reip187 I mean we meant it to be traditional, but we had 2 men getting married with little effort to show one was female. He assumed we were doing a gay marriage. Wouldn't even show it to the class. Tried to convince him that even if it were a gay marriage the assignment was to show the 3 elements, which we did. He was not amused. I believe he told us about how gay people go to Hell after that and we just took it.
Reip187 4 months ago
All the Jews would have done to abrogate Christianity was to simply produce the body of Jesus. What they, nor the Romans could not do, YouTubers want to do today; deny Jesus as the messiah; the saviour of the world; the Son of the living God. Well, God help us.
73geneva 4 months ago
You know what bothers me about this crucifixion nonsense? The whole thing was supposed to be "the ultimate sacrifice", right? Well, WTF did he sacrifice? Jesus dies, spends three days in Heaven (the ultimate paradise), then comes back completely alive.
What exactly did he give up?
TheSmackerlacker 5 months ago
Isn't this whole argument begging the question? "The disciples did, in fact, see a bodily resurrected Jesus, therefore Jesus rose from the dead." Of course! If you grant the former half of that statement, then you've already proven your point. But these apologists have not proven the former half.
ThatGuyWithHippyHair 5 months ago
You will not be moved.You have faith in your own beliefs,but not for the USA. As long as that shows free speech.Be thankful you have it.China would shoot you if you exercised any there.
Mr7777ELVIS 5 months ago
Patriotic spies stick to their cover stories even under torture. So in a sense they die for a lie.
MrAdvancedAtheist 5 months ago
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williemetoyer1 5 months ago
@williemetoyer1 Care to be specific?
ProfMTH 5 months ago
@ProfMTH sorry made a mistake
williemetoyer1 5 months ago
"If he came back from the dead he is authenticating his claim to be the son of god." -Lee Strobel
Uh. No. Even if he died and came back from the dead, if would have no voracity to his claim to be the son of a god. And it wouldn't be proof that there was even a god. And it certainly shouldn't be used as a moral compass to follow and do whatever he said.
yillow1 5 months ago
@yillow1 We know Lazarus didn't come back from the dead. Otherwise we'd see Lazarus in his deathless body would walk the earth in 2011 like a character from "Highlander."
MrAdvancedAtheist 5 months ago
They suffered and died for the truth.(to conceal)
TheIAMINU 7 months ago
I dont think we even have the evidence that Jesus was even real, none the less had 12 disciples. The entire Christian story is nothing more then an astrology story. The 12 disciples representing the 2 signs of the zodiac. Lee Stroble whom I read his works in college, were nothing more the straw man arguments. Once one digs deeper into all this his entire augments can be easily disputed
BestLion75 7 months ago
Didn't the terrorist of 9/11 died for a lie?
yourjunk420 8 months ago
@yourjunk420 Yes. But so far as we can tell, they believed it was the truth.
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@ProfMTH Exactly! My apologies. I posted the comment prior to you getting to that point in the video. Thanks thought...
yourjunk420 8 months ago
@ProfMTH As the diciples did.
Yahweigh 6 months ago
I doubt they ever saw a ressurected physical jesus
Yahweigh 6 months ago
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danwazhere7 8 months ago in playlist 'DID the disciples die for a lie?' Series
@yourjunk420 Truths are different from facts. Truths are relative, facts are not.
HimesInu 6 months ago
@yourjunk420
Who cares how or why these most likely fictional characters died, at least they're dead. They supported one of the most evil lies to ever plague mankind.
Ryakki 6 months ago
How do we know the apostles died WILLINGLY? After they were blamed for the great fire of Rome, they were considered a terrorist organization, so Rome quickly rounded up their leaders (the apostles) and executed them, like any state would do. They weren't given a choice to recant their religious beliefs, because it wasn't a religious issue. It was political. Their crime was treason, not blasphemy, which makes that first wave of persecutions fundamentally different from future ones.
KayBeeEee1983 8 months ago
@KayBeeEee1983 Ive never heard of this. Interesting comment.
slickwick45 8 months ago
@slickwick45 After rereading my comment, it sounds like I'm claiming those things as facts, but they're not. I just used logic. If Rome thought that the Christians deliberately set the fire, then they would be considered terrorists, and if they're considered terrorists, Rome isn't going to let them off just for recanting their faith. Would the USA let Bin Laden off if he recanted his faith in Islam? Not a chance. So why would Rome, a civilization that CRUCIFIED people, do it?
KayBeeEee1983 8 months ago
@KayBeeEee1983 Ah ok.
slickwick45 8 months ago
@slickwick45 There's nothing in Roman history, as far as I know, that says that Christians were killed for not recanting their faith in that first wave of executions immediately preceding the first Jewish Revolt. It just says that Nero blamed the fire on the Christians.
KayBeeEee1983 8 months ago
If I made up a lie and went around spreading it, and the authorities captured me and told me they were going to crucify me or burn me at the stake unless I recanted -- I'd recant. That's a no-brainer.
OneEyedJack1970 9 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970 Did you watch the series?
ProfMTH 9 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970 unless you considered your lie was in fact a "spiritual" truth...but..a literal lie..you might be inclined to think your "lie" was going to help people...and since you had already built your reputation on this...you could recant..but youd be destroying the life you had worked so hard to build...given this desperation...one might feel forced to die...not because your convicitons were true or false...but because they were YOUR convictions
arkee71 5 months ago
What evidence is there that the disciples died martyr's deaths? Or how they died at all?
bwconklin 10 months ago
@bwconklin "What evidence is there that the disciples died martyr's deaths? Or how they died at all?"
It's all addressed in the series.
ProfMTH 10 months ago
@ProfMTH
Yes I saw the later sections. Very well done sir. It totally obliterates the "wouldn't die for a lie" argument. I can't imagine even Lee Strobel making this argument in the face of these arguments..
bwconklin 10 months ago
Silly pseudo-intellectual atheist.
Christlovesanimals 10 months ago
@Christlovesanimals "Silly pseudo-intellectual atheist."
Let me know if you ever have anything of substance to say.
ProfMTH 10 months ago
@ProfMTH Silly pseudo-intellectual atheist and your silly ultimatums...
Christlovesanimals 10 months ago
Where the hell are Greece and Turkey on the world map behind Josh McDowell? Way to bolster stereotypes of the geographically challenged American.
benben42 10 months ago
Comment removed
KayBeeEee1983 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@benben42 "Where the hell are Greece and Turkey on the world map behind Josh McDowell?"
LMAO XD
KayBeeEee1983 8 months ago
Yes alot of people will die have died believing in a lye that Jesus is white is the lie you wrote for people to believe.You are of Ssatans House
gt1085 11 months ago
Yea but who is the white dude??????
gt1085 11 months ago
yea but who is the white do ???
gt1085 11 months ago
I think it's a moot point. What fictional characters supposedly believed or did proves nothing.
gupsphoo 11 months ago
Quite a few people have claimed to see and have spent time with Elvis several years after his death.
Sweddude 11 months ago
@Sweddude Indeed.
ProfMTH 11 months ago
It's often asked if they died for a lie. I often ask if they even existed.
Hermetiqa 1 year ago
@Hermetiqa Then you should make a video about that. :-)
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@Hermetiqa then, sir, are most desperate.
Christlovesanimals 10 months ago
what about some cults - there are several examples of people dying for a cult they belong to, is the cult a lie? do they think it's truth? do they know the cult is lying to them? why does it even matter? aren't we to believe in the Risen Lamb of GOD the CREATOR rather than what the disciples did or didn't do? what about the thousands of early Christian martyrs who willingly died for their faith in Jesus Christ? did their deaths not count or were they not as important as the disciples?
33point3 1 year ago
@33point3 It seems you don't understand the "they wouldn't die for a lie" argument, which is troubling since it was explained in some detail in this portion of the series. Did you watch the video? The idea is that, as Lee Strobel said, the original apostles--"the Twelve" as it were--were in, as Strobel says, a unique position because, unlike other believers, they didn't merely believe that Jesus had been raised from the dead, but they saw and interacted with a physically resurrected Jesus. ...
ProfMTH 1 year ago
(con't) @33point3 ... Advocates of the "they wouldn't die for a lie" argument are willing to concede--as Strobel does in the video clip I played in this part of the series--that every other religious believer who has not had the (purportedly) unique experience of the original apostles could have been wrong, could have been misled. But those original apostles, Strobel says, "they knew the truth" because they'd witnessed and interaacted with the resurrected Jesus and knowing this "truth", the...
ProfMTH 1 year ago
(con't) @33point3 ...apostles were willing to die for it.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
We shouldnt ignore the element of Panterro's influence. General Panterro. Jesus' natural father(suggested) It had been suggested that there may have been a recovery from the cross rather than a resurection. Was this indeed the man who offered Jesus Nations(tempter). Would they die for a lie? Doubtful, but its all to plausible they would die for a false belief. The difference being that they may not have been aware of the suckerplay. Doesnt make them liars, but doesnt make them correct either.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
People that stir up trouble for the government end up dead. They are not given the option of changing their minds, or recanting their claims, and then set free. WHEN has that EVER happened in all of recorded history?
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
worship GOD not Jesus
jojonobo 1 year ago
Everything you say is based on the assumption that the Bible is true but there is no proof that it is. Don't you think a god who is powerful enough to create the universe could come up with a better way to communicate with his creatures then an old book written by people? We never see god, hear god, or have any kind of interaction with god but you believe in him. You claim we will find out about god after death, well that's really convenient. There is no virtue in lying in the name of god.
temdatli 1 year ago
@temdatli Nothing you've said here has anything to do with the case I've presented in this series.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
LOL. 10s of millions died for a belief/lie in the 1940s. Doesnt make it true, its only a belief. None of the apostles ever wrote anything so it is never factually recorded anyway.
shagster1970 1 year ago
1.There is insufficient evidence to qualify there even being eye witness accounts.
2.Eye witness accounts are among the worst kinds of evidence.
3.Fugue states are an example of where someone can not only actively engage in double think to fool their conscious, but even fool their sub conscious.
4.People can be extremely mistaken about personal experiences, and groups often enhance this effect.
5.Mental illness is linked to religiosity, and at that time nobody understood mental illness.
dookiecheez 1 year ago
Those people were in the opium field. They could easily have all been completly hallucinating. Dying for something you believe you saw means nothing without proper psychologic analyse of their states.
Flem1337 1 year ago
don't worry you can ask Jesus because he will soon return :))
xeena67 1 year ago
@xeena67 I can't believe why anyone would put a smiley face behind THE END OF THE WORLD.
And they've been saying he's coming 'soon' since the very first years of Christianity. Jesus himself even says in the Bible, when he was supposedly "alive", that "this generation will not pass away until all of this has come to pass" and you know what? They're all dead.
I'm not going to waste my life waiting with glee for the utter ANNIHILATION and DESTRUCTION of our planet. Let's move on, shall we?
viridismonasteriense 1 year ago
@viridismonasteriense you can move on if you like BUT if you know anything about the Bible then you would know that the things that must come to pass started with Israel becoming a nation which didn't happen until 1948 so I'll keep waiting. :))
xeena67 1 year ago
@xeena67 There's no reason to believe anything in scripture is actually referring to Israel becoming a nation. So dream on.
It's one thing to just observe, it's another to gleefully await. People who can't wait for the world to end are dangerous. MYou revel in apocalypse and the deaths of millions? More smiley faces? Please stay away from me.
viridismonasteriense 1 year ago
@viridismonasteriense don't worry, I will never cross your path. Christians don't literally sit & wait. We do live our lives in joy & happiness in peace
& love. :))
xeena67 1 year ago
@xeena67 Yet you still talk with glee about the apocalypse you think is just around the corner, which you "know", because it says so in your holy book, will involve countless deaths and the end of everything we know and hold dear.
What disgusts me is that you think of millions dying and suffering and you picture this as a happy event deserving of a smiley face. How does that make you different from a serial killer?
That's why I don't want to cross paths with you.
viridismonasteriense 1 year ago
@viridismonasteriense you have NO clue what I think. I'll dare you judge me! There is a reason there is many suffering & dying. I pray for them a lot. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME. I have had enough of your comments so I am blocking you. You obviously, from the looks of your channel, are bored again. Why don't YOU try reading the Bible then you just might understand & YES I long for the day that Jesus comes & takes his people from this miserable existence.
xeena67 1 year ago
@xeena67 No, I don't know you. All I said is based on your comments. All I said was, basically: "How can anyone look forward to mass-destruction and slaughter and think that's a good thing and how does this desire for destruction make you any different from a psychopath longing for blood?" Is that not an honest question?
You focus on the so-called positive aspect of the apocalypse, the salvation part, but I know that you know what happens to everyone who is not saved and you're okay with that
viridismonasteriense 1 year ago
9.James stepbrother of jesus.
panterguy 1 year ago
@panterguy What?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Some Christians believe that Mary had to remain virginal and to consider James to be the "brother" of Jesus (as the NT clearly states) is blasphemous... so they insert "Step" in front of "Brother" to imply that Jesus' brothers and sisters MUST have been the children of (supposedly widower) Joseph from a previous marriage... Since Christians are accustomed to making up things as they go, it is perfectly in line with their delusion.
xephyr1000 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 Catholics claim that James was step brother of Jesus because the Gospels admit that Joseph was not the only husband to Mary consider reading Mark 3;18. I hold that Alphaeus father of James is actually Zacharias, which makes John the Baptist and James the Just brothers.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
@beholdtheageofold I know what catholics "claim", and don't care. The texts do NOT imply any "step" in the relationship. PERIOD. I also find it hilarious that christians of any flavor will use apologetics (the ART OF MAKING UP EXCUSES) to explain away obvious contradictions such as names.
xephyr1000 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 Considering that Alphaeus being another name used other then Joseph quoted in Matt 1. A step must be used if a person is going to use the Catholic perspective of separating the two characters. Its not an excuse there allegation is seen in Mark 3;18.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
Exodus 21:17, KJV:
"And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death."
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
@caseagainstfaith I tried to lay out as thorough a case against this argument as possible. If I were to do it again, I would probably shorten it up, but at the time it seemed important to cover the salient angles as meticulously and thoroughly as possible.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
"Die for a Lie", sounds like the war Bush forced us in too!!!
Man Made god, Not, god Made Man - Lies, Lies and more Lies, the bible and religion is based on people lying to others for personal gains and power...
stevethul1 1 year ago
@stevethul1 speak it brotha!
only2nocrew 1 year ago
"It is claimed the group was composed of eyewitnesses..."
The key word in that sentence is CLAIMED. The evidence of these so-called eyewitness accounts of the resurrected Jesus is flimsy at best. In fact, the only evidence AT ALL for these accounts can be found in the Gospels...mutually contradicting accounts, written decades after the events they describe. By any legal definition, that would be classed as extremely weak and unreliable evidence.
garethac81 1 year ago
"Did the disciples die for a lie"? This is a blatant false dichotomy. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that the only possibilities here are a) Jesus rose from the dead, or b) Jesus didn't rise from the dead, but the disciples deliberately lied and said that he did? The most likely scenario is neither of those two options. What IS likely is that no one actually saw Jesus resurrected - they merely heard rumours about the event, and let the strength of their belief convince them it was true.
garethac81 1 year ago
The 12 men contributed to the NT? Does he mean by inspiring scriptures? The writers of the NT never met Christ or his 12 disciples, correct me if I'm wrong. Mark 16, John 20, Matthew 28, and Luke 24 aren't the same. So much for trust.
HybridD91 1 year ago
@HybridD91 THe Gosple of John tells us that the Apostles witnessed Christ's life. The fact is, the writters of the NT did meet and learn from Jesus.
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist I know what the Gospel says about the Apostles and hearsay, what the unknown writers of the Gospels received, isn't convincing,
HybridD91 1 year ago
@HybridD91 I have no idea what you are saying.
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist You were talking about the apostles and NT writers. I explained that the NT writers got their stories from hearsay. What's there not to understand? I have other fun stuff to do bye.
HybridD91 1 year ago
@HybridD91 What is not to understand is your very poor grasp at english grammer.
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist
"The fact is, the writters of the NT did meet and learn from Jesus."
The fact is, that's bullshit. All the evidence points to the Gospels being written several decades after Jesus died, by people who never knew him, and relied on unsubstantiated stories to write about him. The last Gospel was written 70-80 years after Jesus died. If John was a contemporary of Jesus, he would have been 110 years old...during a time when the average life expectancy was only 30!
garethac81 1 year ago
@garethac81 All of the NT writtings (except John) were written before 70 AD. ALl the evidence supports that. We have a fragment of Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings).
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist
Sorry, that simply isn't true. The majority of neutral scholars date the Gospels as follows:
Mark: 65-73 AD
Matthew: 70-85 AD
Luke: 80-100 AD
John: 90-110 AD
That dates the earliest Gospel at least 35 years after Jesus' death. Which begs the question: Why would any eyewitness of the resurrection wait over THREE DECADES (let alone 40-80 years) to write about it?
garethac81 1 year ago
@garethac81 Having seen the manuscript with my own eyes, and having attended several scholar conventions, I can tell you exactly what the majority of scholars have concluded. 1) None of the Gospels mention the destruction of the second temple (and even some writtings alude to it still standing) is very strong evidence that they were all written before 70 AD. 2) to answer your other question, the Gospels were never supposed to the written. They were always supposed to be oral tradition.
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist
Were your "scholarly conventions" hosting Christian theologians, or neutral, unbiased historians? "The Gospels were never supposed to be written"? That answer would suffice if the Gospels were NEVER written down...however, it does nothing to explain why the Gospel writers would wait several decades and then, suddenly, decide to start writing.
garethac81 1 year ago
@garethac81 I broad range of people attended. Anyone who is a scholar, or in the process of becomming a scholar were invited. Some of the people there are Christian theologians with a PHD in Koine Greek / Hebrew / History ect... Other people were athiests who also had (or are in the process of getting) a PHD in the above subjects. I don't have a PHD, but I'm in the program. There are ususally a very wide range of beliefs at these conventions.
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist "We have a fragment of Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
Please cite your source for this claim, Truthforchrist. I know it's inaccurate so I'd like to know where you're getting this false information (or if you're just making it up on your own). Thanks.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH This information comes from a convention I was at about 3 years ago. I will try to find a website that talks about it. However, why would you think I'm making it up? I have no interest in lieing to people.
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist "This information comes from a convention I was at about 3 years ago. I will try to find a website that talks about it. However, why would you think I'm making it up?"
You've either gotten incorrect information OR you're making it up. Before I can make a reasonable determination about which is the case, I'll need to know whether you have a source for the claim. I know it's not true. As the maker of the claim, the burden is on your to prove it. I'm waiting. Thanks.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@truthforchrist I'm still waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that there exists " a fragment of [the Gospel of] Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@truthforchrist Still waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that there exists " a fragment of [the Gospel of] Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@truthforchrist Still waiting for you to provide a source for your claim that there exists " a fragment of [the Gospel of] Matthew that dates to 67 AD (the new current oldest portion of NT writtings)."
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Sorry about the late responce. My youtube is glitched that I only see 1 responce (meaning if you respond to a post of mine after someone else, I have no idea you responded to me). I couldn't find a non apologetical webpage (which I'm not about to use as a source). So, the only thing I can do is the next convention I attend, I will have to talk to a few people I know and ask for any information. I wish I could give you a better answer. Again, sorry if you thought I was ignoring you
truthforchrist 1 year ago
@truthforchrist Thanks for the response.
"I couldn't find a non apologetical webpage (which I'm not about to use as a source)."
Three things. 1st, why did you state the claim so emphatically if you weren't prepared to back it up? 2nd, doesn't the absence of neutral sources for this claim give you reason to doubt its veracity? It should. 3rd, I'd be VERY interested in the apologetic sources that make this claim. Would you identify them? Thanks again.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Most christians would say that Joseph Smith died for a lie (and I agree with them). Why should these fools be any different?
ElectricUte666 1 year ago
Lee - "I've looked all throughout history, and can't find anyone that died for a lie..."
I just spilt my beer because its just too funny. I can name 2 examples off the top of my head without a moments thought. Heavens gate + jonestown cult
Lee was born before 1978 and must of heard of that cult on the news, I can't believe he is that dishonest. I was born in 1990 in the UK and know this!
Jim Jones had more than 12 people in his cult too, so I guess he fucking pwnd jesus just on pure numbers.
AtheismandSkepticism 1 year ago
Let me rephrase that last statement. I enjoy the MUSIC used in Catholic liturgy. The rest is rather boring. So what is the song in the beginning?
GuyMontag92 1 year ago
What is the video in the beginning? I enjoy Catholic masses (even though I am not Catholic).
GuyMontag92 1 year ago
Why when I see this guys intro and his yellow hair and fucked up face I think of a man who was sent from satan?
DavidTheCatholic 1 year ago
@DavidTheCatholic All right, David, I've given you enough chances NOT to be a douche bag, but you can't seem to help yourself. So fuck you very much. Have a good life.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@DavidTheCatholic Great argument to defend your ideology!!! wow, you used 80% of your brain.... you destroyed ProfMTH. Thank dog, I mean dog, I mean god... praize jesus goretex.
lapiz1969 1 year ago
Let's talk about sects baby......
RadarKat73080 1 year ago
fuckin sexy @0:43
johnnythesailorman 1 year ago
Well, assuming the huge statement that 11 of 12 of these disciples were killed for their faith, that they wouldn't have escaped it by recanting, etc., my question is this: why did they die at all? Skip "die for a lie" for a second...these people were eyewitnesses to GOD himself walking around. Apparently even Peter is not convincing enough to escape death, with all the miracles he and others were supposedly capable of. They probably pissed the wrong people off and couldn't pray their way out
11111011 1 year ago
Did you strategically leave out the Stephen of ACTS or did it just slip your mind?
charliesplinter 1 year ago
@charliesplinter Why should he be included?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH
Wasn't he a matyr who died for preaching about Jesus? Acts 7:54
charliesplinter 1 year ago
@charliesplinter According to Acts he was, yes. But he doesn't fulfill the other criteria for the "would they have died for a lie" crowd. I go through this in LAVISH detail in the series, so you should continue to watch.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
I guess the question is did the desciples really had to fear for there lives or not and why ?thanks :)
fallbread 1 year ago
not the roamans that wanted him dead they had no problen with jesus they were just trying to quiet the jews in that area ? if any one can give me a answer to this question thanks:)
fallbread 1 year ago
interesting I have a question thought any one can answer it for me ? The jews i think compained to the romans about jesus and wanted him dead right ? after he died and these disciples roamed around the roaman empire after telling there stories about him jesus werent the romans open to other people belifes and religions? so the disciples were not afaid of being killed for them but stayed away from jewish temples of they be stoned or something ?i mean it was the jewish bosses that wanted him dead
fallbread 1 year ago
well done great job
fallbread 1 year ago
How do i know Jesus lives?He lives inside my heart!!!! i feel His presence every day! I see the change he has made in my life.I hear His sweet,tender voice speaking to me every day.That's proof enough for me!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
What does "His presence" feel like, Steelersteve36? How does "His sweet, tender voice speaking" sound?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@steelersteve36
Nope= That's just the mighty evil Satan deceiving you and pretending to be Jesus!
grozde 1 year ago
"Mighty evil satan"is a defeated chump.He is a defeated foe,thanx to what Jesus did on the cross!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36
How do you know it's not just another one of his deceitful illusions? May be there was never a Crucifixion? may be there was - and was part of the Devil's plan?
may be the Bible was inspired by the Devil - to trick us into thinking we're on the "good" side while we're not?!!...
grozde 1 year ago
@grozde I'll send you a video,and i'll tell you what i think!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36 you know there is medication(for the voice(s))
FrostbiteQc 1 year ago
That's pretty funny!lol They thought Jesus was crazy too.I'll take it.Just as long as I know He loves me and lives in my heart! God bless,man!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
They also thought Charles Manson was crazy.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
Fortunately,my name is Steve! lol
steelersteve36 1 year ago
Point is, most people who get called crazy are crazy.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
So,you think all of us christians are crazy?That's okay.Because when all is aid and done,we will be forever with our Savior and King.......where there is no more pain,fear or turmoil.Then,what will people say?It really won't matter.I hope you are up there with us.I really do.You need to repent and come to Him with a humble heart,man.
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36 I think the ones who hear voices are. And dont be fooled, youre a distinct minority, even among your Christian bretheryn.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
That so?Because i have been to many churches,many different denominations,watched much christian TV,had many christian friends and listened to much christian radio.ALL of them believed God could speak to people.Perhaps it is something else you are referring to,because it certainly is not christianity!Peace
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36 The speaking is a metaphor for the euphoria they get from their sense of community and acceptance, not actual voices, as you claim to hear.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin nothing personal,but you must think I am a new christian or that I am new to this rodeo.I grew up Assemblies of god,have attended Baptist churches,Church of God in Christ,numerous non-denominational churches,Pentecostal,Charismatic,Presbyterian.....not to mention have had many good teachers that I have sat under such as T.D.Jakes and Pastor John Lindell.The bible teaches very clearly that god speaks to people,as does the christian church.You are sadly mistaken.What religion are you?
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36
Perhaps you don't realize that the description you just gave me denotes a severe obsession, which is a sign of psychosis. Even in your Bible God speaking audibly to the prophets is the exception, not the ordinary (1 Samuel 3:1-10).
Sh0nin 1 year ago
Severe obsession,you say?That is an understatement!I am happily and wonderfully in love with Jesus! He has saved my soul,and fills me with His love every day! you can call it what you want,man!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
Also,there were periods of time when god was silent,but God indeed spoke to His people on many occasions.From the garden,with Adam and Eve(in which God had very close fellowship with them)to Abraham and the promises He gave,to the disciples to even us today.Call us crazy,psychotic,extremist,whatever you want to call us.We as children of God know him,and He knows us! God bless!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36
I don't know how I couldn't call you crazy when you equate yourself with Abtraham, a man who almost killed his son because the voices in his head told him to.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin so when all is said and done,do you believe in God? You seem so sure it is not true.Why would that be?There must be a story behind all this?
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36
Why don't I believe in God? Because I'm honest and value my integrity.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
shOnin Sure....if you value integrity more than eternity that would make sense.However,pridefully keeping dignity over salvation may not be the wisest course of action! Sure,people will hate you,sure things will not always go well or right.but,in the scope of eternity it is meaningless!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36
You equate integrity with being prideful?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@steelersteve36
Are you dense? The reasons you think you'll achieve salvation for eternity are dishonest, which is why my integrity keeps me from accepting them. I'm not losing anything by recognizing a lie.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin Oviously you are pretty set in your feelings.God is reaching out to you,but you resist Him.I just hope you find out about Him before it's too late for you.I will pray for you.God bless.
steelersteve36 1 year ago
@steelersteve36 Steve...I am on your side. "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!" (Matthew 10:14-15)
caycug1 1 year ago
caycug1 Thanx man! Appreciate the words of blessing and encouragement!
steelersteve36 1 year ago
Comment removed
caycug1 1 year ago
@steelersteve36 "Hearing voices" means you "know" what someone is thinking. Like you "know" what your wife is thinking, so you stop and get some bread and milk on the way home. So we know what Jesus is thinking...we "hear" His voice. God bless you brother.
caycug1 1 year ago
The Messiah was declared to be cut off and then the destruction would come. The destruction came in 70 a.d., so where is your Messiah, doubting Israel?
Daniel 9:26"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
Isa. 53: 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
Jesusknowsyou1 1 year ago
The whole "Peter as the first pope" thing always a little fishy to me. I mean, the Catholic Church is a SIGNIFICANT departure from "true" christianity as taught in the New Testament. Wafers and wine, the Eucharist, etc. etc. are inventions of man. Why would one of Jesus' closest disciples head a church like this?? It makes no fucking sense!
...What if none of the 12 disciples existed, either? That throws their "wouldn't die for a lie" argument out!
whoo689 2 years ago
don't even waste your time with a debate cos not all the time you are correct. these wise have already made up there minds to live a life of faith and truth. kee