Debate Panel on Israel: Norman Finkelstein & Wolf Blitzer- 2

[TheJonnyx1]

I was late learning about Norman Finkelstein. Can't get enough of him. Would love to see him talk about some other topics as well. Not sure he has surpassed Chomsky, but we are lucky to have him.

[blockhart]

finkelstein and chomsky are just the best. the BEST at intellectual pwnage. In a way finkelstein might even be better which is saying a LOT

[Salamwamat]

Muslims are ignorant. There is no really a Palestinian Arab state. Arafat was Egyptian. The Land of Israel belongs only to the People of Israel, the Jewish people. Lets the Muslims tribes eat themselves in "revolutions".

[ramonalejandrosuare]

LOL. Blitzer looks uber-annoyed 3:15-3:31

[ialrai]

wolf blittzer is a fucking moron

[elsblaugranas]

Blitzer thinks like a pig, and looks like a pig. Finkelstein thinks like an intellectual, and looks like an intellectual. Can't believe these two shared the same platform..it's like a football game between Micronesia and Brazil.

[mauroprovatos]

Finkelstein pwnage

[othishka]

I have long being watching Wolf on CNN well, he fool me cause I thought he was smart; then to hear all this shit talks from him, OMG! I am sorry,

[fctchk]

Meanwhile, Mr Blitzer goes on to a career hosting TV shows on mainstream US -standard bearer of freedom of speech® - media whereas Mr. Finkelstein is denied tenure at i.e. hounded out of his university. Moreover, Mr. Finkelstein, like fellow truth teller and fact furnisher Noam Chomsky, is kept at arms length by said media and was denied entry to Israel -The Only Democracy in the Middle East™ not to mention - Homeland of the Jews™.

[Iceland1944]

"Limited amount of Sitzfleisch?" What an assinine statement. If anything, they have a great quantity of "Sitzfleisch".

[USAneedsaChange]

I like Wolf a lot. His opinions here were right on. I think he was 100% correct in what he said. Finkelstein could express himself without sounding so mad all the time.

[NobelMan1000]

@USAneedsaChange i agree with u about Muslims and how ignorant they are. but one thing i don't really understand is that why the Zionist Jews have made their country in some one else's land ! after all the Arabs had nothing to do with holocaust. so it should be the Germans who has to give them a piece of their own land to make a country.

[zamil1996]

@NobelMan1000 im muslim and yet sadly im going to have to agree almost completely with your comment. Although it is pretty offensive how u group all muslims as ignorant, i can see where you're coming from but please try to understand how some other openminded muslim intellectual would feel if you put such statements towards them. As for your view on where the Jews shouldve been placed after their displacement by the Nazis- i agree 100%. Why(/how!) did the end up anywhre in middle east?

Peace.

[jmzimmerman1984]

my channel has some of the latest from Norman Finkelstein

[DARKNESS7STRIKE]

Israel will destroy itself

We Muslims are only Snhtse tea and watching it and its allies, terrorists are falling like flies

[USAneedsaChange]

@DARKNESS7STRIKE you muslims don't come with peace-suggestions or act constructive. You just wish for Israel's destruction, but still wants everybody to care for Palestinians. It's a sick attitude that I can't understand. Just stop commiting terrorist acts and build a peaceful democracy on the land you have, what's the f*cking problem?!

[DARKNESS7STRIKE]

@USAneedsaChange You are terrorists

Your government destroyed the twin towers to be fooled to think that we are devastated is

You are so stupid and foolish

There is not a peace prospects, and your government and Israel were still existing

Government of the United States of America = evil and the real terrorists

[USAneedsaChange]

@DARKNESS7STRIKE Typical disgusting talk of a muslim. Ignorant like hell too. Jews are better. Much smarter. You are wrong about where I am from. You are wrong about 9/11. You are completely wrong about USA. You are correct about one thing almost: there is no peace prospect in Israel because of MUSLIMS! Muslims never come up with peace-suggestions and always hate and attack and then we should feel sorry for you? What about the Iranian government who support these terrorists? or Saudi?

[DARKNESS7STRIKE]

USAneedsaChangeIgnorant like you is should we feel pity him

You are entirely wrong on all what you are saying

Saudi Arabia does not support terrorism and Iran is trying to defend itself

America and Israel have nuclear weapons, and pretending that they want peace

How many innocent killed by the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan, the name of defending its national security?

How much of the house was destroyed by Israeli terrorist forces?

[USAneedsaChange]

@DARKNESS7STRIKE No, I am right and there is a lot of evidence to prove it and nothing to prove the sh*t you claim. You are also a muslim who only wants to pretend muslims didn't do 9/11 when you know they did. Fucking liar. Iran supports terrorism in Palestine and in Iraq. Saudi-arabia was home to many of the 9/11-hijackers. If the governement there openly supports terrorism, I don't know though. Afghanistan had terrorist camps where Al Qaeda trained! Israelies are the ones defending themselves

[DARKNESS7STRIKE]

@DARKNESS7STRIKE

[meshzzizk]

Many thanks for posting this.

[allianceFiLifeDotCom]

Damn Finkelstein is a serious library

[AikidoTubeMe]

WOW! I've been reading these posts and have to say to most of you; Get a SPELL CHECKER! But on a more serious note, Finkelstein is a sincere and serious scholar of Palestinian and Jewish history. He's written several books and his sources are impeccable!

There has to be some semblance of international law in the region in order to have any peace there. As long as groups such as APAC control the situation there is no hope for anything but continued apartheid etc. in the region.

[ismaelOnTheGround]

Blitzer is getting RAAAAAAAPED 

[loveriddles]

Dr. Finkelstein has the logic, truth, proper knowledge and courage to tell.

[anddihier]

The PLO was funded by the Arabs,,,how can he say that...That murdering Arafat gets a peace prize---and then the Arabs kill him.....Norm is a joke. You can tell by looking at him that he has major problems--mental

[trollfinger]

@anddihier

Disagree with is views all you want, but don't be an ass and try and insult the way the man looks.

[anddihier]

@trollfinger ..His eyes roll back in his head..nothing to do with looks

[moomar1]

@anddihier Look . there is a holocuast in Palestine taking place right now... and Israeli jews and all who support them are responsible and so are people like you who spread mis truth... you're all holocaust deniers. Do some research before making these silly posts all over Youtube you moron

[deko916]

@anddihier Go and get some education , thats is what you are lacking...Finkelstein

is man of truths ..

[anddihier]

@deko916 ..How would u know?

[anddihier]

@deko916 No wrong...he speaks for a few...not all. Are u Islamic radical? Are u Nazi? HE proves it that u don't have to all act a certain way just because u are Israli. He hates them and he's one so whats that say---all but him are crazy? No--wrong.

He promotes hate, the worst kind of any race--shame on him..Fink

[moomar1]

@anddihier The jews are the murdering mad ones... you have no right to occupy Palestininan territory. no right to occupy jerusalem...its not your land...israel is your land... you got it for nothing tyou pushed out the arabs from it and expect em to be happy about it??? israeli are theiving murdering bastards and liers

[anddihier]

@moomar1 Arabs are the ones who won't share. No it wasnt free...its cost hundreds of thousands of lives. The white man zionists pushed the jews back to Israel becasue of anti-semitism in the Balfour declaration--they whites didnt want them, so they come home and get the same thing, maybe they are sick of the mortars and missiles and suicide bombers. They can't defend becasue its a crime? Turkey bombs Iran and no one says a word--Korea bombs China and no word--its a scam,its racism,religious war

[moomar1]

@anddihier The Arabs have shared a big chunk of palestine with Israel... during the 2001 peace talks thery were willing to give more for peace but the israeli walked away..Whites didnt force Jews back to the Middle east Jew wanted a homeland, they got one. Why do you think Hitler and most of the German people hated Jews so much? there must have been a reason, people don't just wake up and start hating..maybe the Jews back then were like the Jews in israel, what do you think?

[anddihier]

@moomar1 ..They --the Hama's are the ones doing it. Your deceived if you believe otherwise. The Egyptians kill more PLO's or Hamas than anyone--read the news, you obviously don't live there

[moomar1]

@anddihier Itry reading the facts , the record.. written by people who DO live there. it tells a different stroy to the one you advocate.

Israel is a terrorist nation, facts are facts.. and you can't change them

[anddihier]

@moomar1 ..And what about you? Do you live there? I have a friend informing me that this is all lies and he lives in Jerusalem so.... Why would he lie, he is a christian. He posts the news of the suicide bombers of the daily missles. yes they defend themselves as they are in a war with Hamas. They dont care about Gaza..they care about Jerusalem..Arabs dont so why they fight over it, they pray to mecca, its crazy..Why do you thin Norms name is Fink--becasue he is one.

[moomar1]

@anddihier The facts are the facts.. whats on record is on record... you can't change it.. Israel walked away from peace talks then broke cease fire. thats a fact you cannot change it... the facts are the dsame no matter where you live, you can be lied to just as easily in israel and in new zealand. when enought people like you start talking lies people believe them. but it doesnt make it true

[anddihier]

@moomar1 You hate jews--you hate this Fink then. So he's the only good jew? No others? Not all are bad in any nation, nor all good--thats the point and he makes it just by being a jew, no? Yes!

[moomar1]

@anddihier No I hate any Jew that supports what israel is doing names murder and terrorism, if they support it the same as pulling the triger themselves. You need to find the facts and niot make shit up mate.. people are dying because of lies like yours... grow the fuck up

[creativedream]

@moomar1 Mate, you should mean "hating Zionist" not "hate Jews".

[moomar1]

@creativedream No I hate ALL jews that support this not just the zionists... why single them out?

[wickedgame26]

filkenstein is not pro palestinian, its just that he is Just and Rational, and the zionist pig knows that and afraid of him.

[wickedgame26]

@wickedgame26 sorry correction Finkelstein lol

[frenchman203]

This is the real Situation Room and the situation for Wolf ain't pretty.

[GorterPoss]

@frenchman203 Wolf is awesome. He provides great grist for the Daily Show.

[frenchman203]

This is the real Situation Room and the situation for Wolf ain't pretty.

[frenchman203]

This is the real Situation Room and the situation for Wolf ain't pretty.

[DarthVeel]

go norm go!

[maxfedor1]

wolf blitzer, paul wolfovitz, same shit different pile. f israel f america the biggest terrorist in the world presently. facts dont lie just the respective goverments in those countries

[slanker786]

لا استسلام ، لا استسلام

[slanker786]

@asdqwezxc69 im a finkelstein fan but germany did suffer great losses at the hands of britain. they bombed dresden mercilessly and targeted refugees fleeing other towns. even the hospital was not spared in this mass murder, as england realised they must win by any means necessary including genocide [if they lost the war on the continent there was a good chance of invasion]. britain is a terrorist state as the royal navy took part in the blockade of gaza & help israhell and zionazism

[Thewizard4u]

Damn Finkelstein is good.

[hmanxy]

Norman's voice is so soothing. Unfortunately his logic is strained. The PLO deliberately with full intention targeted children. Anyone making such a comparison therefore is either mentally ill or operates in a moral vacuum. The casualty number argument is also quite dubious. Nazi Germany suffered greater losses than Britain, so I guess we can conclude that the UK were the terrorists. Norman is simply pathological.

[bananito2]

actually england was the bad guy, also the weak one

the russian were the bad guys also but the strong ones that won that war.

German were the good ones but the world was to coward to stand up for truth

you can see now with Israel, US and England actions who are the bad guys.

now fuck off bitch

hehe

[LSRochon]

It's becoming more difficult for the World to Ignore a nazified israel.....plain and simple.

[oldjoe5]

How the hell does a paid Zionist shill like Blitzer allowed to operate on US TV as a journalist?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@oldjoe5 He represents elite interests, that's why.

[o0abdo0o]

the zionist got debunked yet again

[terpis]

The Finkel-nator.

[holomage]

I see Blitzer was as much a chump then as he is now.

[whauffend]

I believe Blitzer believed his own words. I used to believe that too. Luckily, historical awareness, unbiased study and plain truth have pulled me back to earth. "The problem of facts", as Finkelstein so eloquently puts it, was my problem and I clearly see that that is the problem for anyone who tries to defend the indefensible position, strategies and actions of Israel.

[fagbert]

Yes this is precisely true for me as well. The more actual facts I become aware of, the more I must concede that the balance of responsibility falls more heavily upon Israel, not the Palestinians, for the continuation of the conflict.

[SweetDissident]

Oh brother, Finkelstein gives incisive, thoughtful answers to questions, and backs his claims with evidence, and all Blitzer can do is spout the same old Abba Eban rhetoric about "missing opportunities." How original. Finkelstein towers!

[hanysal]

Today in 2009 Our Choice is Armed Resistance and NOTHING ELSE, Natanyahu has gone too far and the building of settlements has gone too far.

[muslim610]

Professor finkelstein is excellent.Wolf got served on a plate,with a side order of fries.....LOL....thanks for the video bro.

[SilentComrade]

Wolf Blitzer is a douchebag.

[Steadno]

tricky zionist

[truefaith2]

What Wolf Blitzer is saying in a cheeky way, if the Palestinians were clever they should except them selves as slaves of Israel and except them Israeli Nazis as their masters the question is how Zionist European Jews get there in the first place because the muslims, jews, Christians were already living together peacefully so it shows Zionist israelis are the root cause of the problem. Also Israelis dont make mistakes majority of the times they intentionally inflict, we know why.

[brabon1]

for 20 plus years, finkelshit has been spewing the same bullshit stats

an apologist for terrorism

an apologist, for he bears the guilt of his parents not being murdered by the nazis and therefore, the accident of his birth

a very sad man who needs help

[mbleek2001]

it seems the only person who needs help here is you. you are full of hot air

[brabon1]

better air than shit...which is what norm is full of

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

How so? What exactly do you mean by "bullshit"?

[brabon1]

bullshit

as in, he doesnt know his ass from his head...and neither do i...they both look alike

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

"he bears the guilt of his parents not being murdered by the nazis"

???????????????

[brabon1]

i suggest that you read studies done on second generation survivors

this is a normal occurrence...norm's is just to the extreme

its a very sad case....but years of therapy could cure him

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

So, do these studies prove his points wrong? Just asking.

[brabon1]

this is a norman tact

and i will not play that game

norman has been found to play fast and loose with both history and real facts

there isnt enough room here to provide evidence....but it is out there if you google

you wont...cuz norman tells you not to

[truefaith2]

Wolf Blitzer- 2 is playing that game "play fast and loose with both history and real facts".

[truefaith2]

if yu don't like it then skip page yu zionist radical.

[brabon1]

why dont you blow me, you terrorist loving asshole

[truefaith2]

brabon1 truth is your the terrorist lover, you asshole who gives you the authority to falsely label anybody you want, radical nut jobs like you hear anybody talking truth about Israelis crime is labelled by nut jobs like you as anti-Semite but fail to realize Arabs are Semites to.

[hatimali04]

don't you think it's a bit odd that then israel was against the plo and supported hamas to weaken PLO? now it is vice versa, face it, israel is destroying itself and the whole world is there witnessing their atrocities. look at the facts and look at the statistics from israelis alone, you'll see a great bias.

so if you don't mind...i think i will continue to irritate muslim haters like you

makes my day a helluva lot brighter...

[truefaith2]

you mean your sad man who needs help.

[EKon235]

why are they muting the applause ovation for norman finklestein and not blitzer. second time now;can't be coincidence:(

[agp319]

israel will continue to kill children with regret, as long as they are used as human shields for gunmen. when we take fired, we will return it.

[rssesq]

i'd love to see Traitor Joe Lieberman debate Dr. Finkelstein.

God bless Dr. Finkelstein

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

That would be awesome!

I want to see Dr. Finkelstein debate a real idiot, someone like Joel Rosenberg or Jay Sekulow or any other right-wing zionist asswipe.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Why did I post that twice?

[300sooks]

god bless you Dr. Finkelstein

[vontrop]

Dr finkelstien owned blitzer

Finkelstien has his shit together - i have never seen any one pound home a point like finkelstien- he just is a stud -period

I will bet that blitzer will NEVER go up against him again.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Dr. F. needs to debate a real ziontard like Joel Rosenberg or Jay Sekulow or anyone else on the "neocon" rack. Of course, Norm would own them within 5 minutes.

[rssesq]

when is Harvard or Yale going to hire Dr. Finkelstein. He is a brilliant mind that should be teaching.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Sadly, Dr. Finkelstein will never be hired, because he speaks the truth which scares the fuck out of Israel and the USA.

[rencrow]

Not as long as dershowitz and his cronies are still floating around.

[sharshur]

First Wolf Blitzer said they should just be happy with what's given to them and then try to get more and then he said this will never work because the Palestinians will never be happy with a little. He talked out of both sides of his mouth. Obviously it's a successful strategy in this world.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Um, have you seen the maps of some of these "peace plans"? The Israelis want to turn the West Bank into swiss cheese. You would never accept a Jewish state like that, why should anyone accept a Palestinian state like that?

[sharshur]

I'm not Jewish. I was saying Wolf Blitzer was being disingenuous. How did you take that as an endorsement?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Sorry about that. I thought you were going after the Palestinians, not Shitzer.

[agp319]

" You would never accept a Jewish state like that, why should anyone accept a Palestinian state like that?" jews did accept a nation like that, in 47 and before in the 1930s. jews accepted arabs did not saying that they would not accept a jewish state even if ti was the size of a postage stamp

[ulipika]

finkelstein was a hot young man :)

can't say the same about blitzer.

[ulipika]

of course that's secondary to his superior intellect and sense of social justice compared to that tool blitzer.

[guillaumepirard]

wolf blitzer makes me think of that montesquieu phrase "about orators,when they lack in depth,they give it to you in length"

[hiwaymanx]

Wolf Shitzer

[gillies24]

I almost choked when he said Kissinger. You are repeater Blizter. A schill.

[jugganaut26]

It's sad, given the clear disparity of logical and analytical skill between them, that the lesser of the two (Blitzer) becomes the famed CNN correspondent. Shame.

[NefeshChaim]

Also what an evasion of a question by Blitzer. What does he mean, not giving advice to Israel? The whole thing is debating the situation? He completely ignores the question about Menachem Begin.

[NefeshChaim]

I suspect Dr. Finkelstein got his concept of "Same standard" from Prof. Chomsky. Why is it that Dr. Finkelstein seems far more proficient at applying it? The concept of same standard makes sense if your implying a moral judgement, which is the only way it could be used.

[procrastinator11]

Finkelstein is my hero.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

I second that.

[bullbunnies]

you all make me sick. nazism has nothing to with anything, this is just about inflammatory hatred.

finkelstiens 'same standards' is simplistic, and neglects to mention motive, means, and the responsibility of the deaths.

palestinian leadership want dead palestinian children for ignorant folk like you

[Tris10]

Holy shit Blitzer got burned in that last minute.

[Tangoman82]

Filkenstein was great. Blitzer, human garbage..You stink

[ill23will4]

weak bastard go watch barney for a month, get educated and then come back and talk, u might learn something u fucking fag

[rahul2col]

filthy kike, back to the sub sewers of kikestan.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

And who is your comment speaking of?

[rahul2col]

to jews like wolf blitser not a heroic freeedom fighter like morman finklestein.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

That's good. But please don't result to racial slurs; it makes you look uneducated.

And 9/11 wasn't an "inside job". They attacked us mainly because of the USA's support for terrorist Israel.

[RibEye4]

Finkelstein's Kung Fu is very strong.

[JoshF]

Haha.

[Raywilliams228]

"The whole loaf of bread?" Is this man fucking high?

[aktal]

haha...dr. finkelstein made a monkey out of wolf blitzer...

[armstrongplayer]

apply the same standards across the board.

[arturohd]

How can a people who suffered the holocaust complain about nazi criminal policies when they do the exact same thing to the palestinians. Most jewish people always find a thousand ways to excuse and justify Israel´s criminal policies instead of remembering how the holocaust was like.

[arturohd]

What Israel is doing will eventually come to haunt it. There is a thing called "Karma", if you harm someone destiny inevitably has a way of doing the same to you. So I guess that inevitably in the future there will be more jewish persecutions and maybe another holocaust (remember: history repeats itself)and people instead of standing against it, will remember what you have done to the palestinians.

[MopacMurtaza]

To be anti-jew is like being anti-satan.

The reign of Illuminati terror will end in the next decade, Chinese secret society has promised to change the ways of the Zionists and NWO...

[MopacMurtaza]

I didnt know Wolfie was a zionist fuck!!

[vtopa]

Blitzer worked for AIPAC before becoming a journalist.

[oldjoe5]

Since when is Blitzer a journalist?

[DrJackdaniels]

blitzer is lying through his teeth he is soooooooo A SOB

[thenewrapstyle]

i can smell you from here

[rahul2col]

911 was a jewish inside job. 5 mossad agents were found filming the wtc bombing bfore the first plane. right. why were they not questioned.jews own 97% of the media. so they hide the truth.

[athar077]

wow this Norm guy really knows his facts. how old is this debate ? Does wolf work for cnn ?

[LUNDI01]

YES

[dandude5008]

he doesnt know a thing. hes making half of the stuff up

[juliaisafilmbuff]

This interview is from 1989. And yes, Shitzer has been on CNN since forever, all while Dr. Finklestein has been let go from every university he's taught at, because of his political views.

Life is unfair...

[JustJoelyouassclown]

great Documentary - Occupation 101

[mingoi313]

You can actually watch the documentary online on aimislam . com

[JustJoelyouassclown]

or tv-links . co . uk under documentaries

[frits1234567890]

a lot o lies by the lawyer/former-aipac lobby man wolf, but fact is:israel is illegal in palestine!backed by america,as a foreward front to get the oil out of iraq/iran !

[mibrahim4471]

wolf blitzer is a zionist pig

[myapari]

Finkelstein backs up his arguments with documented facts. Blitzer is working on hypothesis and fortune-telling. Who is more credible? Hm...

[Keys1337]

Finkelstein, a rare and rational thinker

[unsobill]

legend !

[werebear1]

Now zionists have taken over colleges and the media to suppress discussion of these topics. They won't speak of any historical fact that exposes the zionist agenda and role today. There is no free speech thanks to them, and soon they will implant "thought crimes" just like they did in Canada, Australia and many European countries. It is time for Zionists and jews alike to start confronting the truth; They are worse than their fabled Hitler

[werebear1]

The descendants of the Canaanites- namely, the Palestinians, are the ones who own the place. The jews where in power for less than 80 yrs before they where kicked out by the Romans. The jews claiming Palestine as theirs today are natives of eastern Russian (Ashkenazim); They are claiming to return to a land their predecessors have never ever been to.

[andyman344]

no one really knows the exact numbers, but that 8 to 1 ratio is clearly out of proportion. you do realize that the people who the palestinians label as victims of israeli terror include: the suicide bombers themselves, armed Palestinian fighters, leaders of terrorist groups, including those who build bombs, terrorists shot in self defense while planting bombs, "collaborators" with israel killed by other palestinians, and anyone killed somehow in relation to trying to destroy israel

[RepublicanStones]

jews have no right to the land of palestine. they are not the only descendants of abraham.

[DoJaenin]

"...and a limited amount of Sitzfleisch" *lol*

Is that a common word in the US?

[fernandorosdav]

finklestein is a chomsky protege

[alphautubeone]

.SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIANS AT A RATIO OF "8 vs 1" AND THEN CLAIMING YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF TERROR-ISM AND ANTI-SEMITISM IS SIMPLY LAUGHABLE BY ANY RATIONAL, LOGIC, RELIGION OR CREED! NO EXCUSES ARE CREDIBLE` FOR THESE LEVELS OF TERRORISM. NOT EVEN THE JEWISH HOLY TORAH 'ALLOWS KILLING BEYOND AN EYE` FOR AN EYE!

PLEASE MEMORIZE- & HELP POST THIS COMMENT ON MANY OTHER ISRAEL RELATED VIDEOS.

[sysarchitect]

Follow in the foot steps of Jimmy Carter Huh? Isn't he that "Anti-Semite" that everybody's talking about nowadays? talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

[alza6ar]

Look for the root of the problem. Israel is an illegal state occupying Palestine. Remove Israel and keep authentic Jews and even immigrant Jews who want to live in peace, and that's it. I know this seems unrealistic, but I don't see any other solution.

[jacobk2]

The ROOT of the problem is that Arabs fraudlently calling themselves palestinians in order to uproot the owners of the land- the Jews, are ILLEGALY occuping the Jewish homeland. Palesitne has always meant the historical and existential Jewish homeland.

[9valkyrie]

The west questioning legitimacy of the PLO and Mr Arafat in 1989, legitimacy of elections and the Hamas government in 2006, the coalition government in 2007 - there´s nothing new under the sun...

[gazawi10]

not to mention the 3 famous conditions on hamas - renouncing terrorism, agreeing to past statements, and recognizing the state of israel - are identical to those placed on the plo in the 1980's.

and arafat then did cave and announce that he recognizes israel, and look what that brought us to.