The truth is Obama's tax plan is better according to CNN

[blueboyblue]

This country has massive debt, & a huge portion of that debt is the unfunded tax cuts given to the rich. Because of that created debt, poor people are paying for money that was given to the rich. This is the largest redistribution of wealth in history. The poor are paying for the Rich.

Some one has to pay the debt, either the poor working man or the rich who benefited from it. By the way, to pay off the debt is $778/mo for 30yrs per tax payer.

Can you afford that?

No, I didn't think so.

[bradensmagic]

Obamas plan will work. He is using a progressive tax system that balances the taxing so that all can afford it. The rich can afford a tax raise. While the middle class can only afford the rich. My Parents are both doctors and admit that the tax raise would not affect them that much. But the poor need a tax cut. Plus the tax dollars goes into benefits for everyone. The investment Obama makes with the tax dollars will help save money on other things like health care

[santanaramostarango]

Obama is doing nothing to cut taxes! His new bill makes taxes HIGHER!!!! Watch my video" Obama goes green"

[heknowsitall]

pssst-nobody at Walmart gets paid $4.00 an hour moron.

[heknowsitall]

have you ever had a job? Bezos salary is about $60K he's abillionaires jackass. It doesn't matter how many people work to keep a house working-they don't own it. The person on the mortgage owns it.

Yea, Ben and Jerry are really tremendous business people and you can really extrapolate a lot from the makers of ice cream.

Sheesh-how stupid.

[Twiggy269]

look at the world. The countries that are run with more central planning (Govt determined markets i.e. socialism) are doing the worst, and have the worst standard of living. The less central planning,(the closer to a capitalist system) the more prosperity within the country.

[Twiggy269]

your theory of socialism inevitably always turns into these forms of govt you claim to despise. It IS a tyranny, and it will never work, because it goes against human nature. Leaving your citizens open to explotation by not giving them exacting rights on property, and the fruits of their labor, leaves power up to the most ruthless thug who can take it. Someone always has to act or enforce the "Will of the people" you love so much.

[Twiggy269]

you love to talk about the "Slave wages" that people are paid. But you still dont understand that those wages are voluntarialy accepted by those people, and it actually INCREASES their standard of living. Without those "Slave wage jobs" most of those people wouldn't have existed because their parents wouldn't have food or money to keep them alive. Without those greedy money grubbing capitalists you'd still be living in a grass hut praying to the stars and dying from tooth decay at age 29.

[Twiggy269]

So how does, the "Will of the people" get enforced if not by a dictatorship?

Should there be any rules on what the will of the people are allowed to enforce? If they all vote to kill your second child to keep the population down, does that make it morally justifiable?

How can you have inalienable rights as a human if every aspect of production and property is up to vote?

This is not an issue of economics, it is one of morality. You have none, but claim the upper hand on it.

[Twiggy269]

you've done a good enough job of making yourself sound stupid by saying theres property rights under socialism.

There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism-by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.

[Twiggy269]

"Companies aren't designed for any other purpose than themselves. They are only concerned about THERE profits, and THERE well being. Not yours. They only want your money."

Couldn't have put it any better myself. If that is not a companies goal, they will fail miserably. You're forgetting to mention the 2nd half of that statement though. How do they get that money?

By creating a good or service that you deem desirable! They don't take your money, YOU GIVE IT TO THEM because you want to.

[Twiggy269]

Btw, look at Walmart, sales are up...they're doing great, no need for a govt. bailout there. Hm, did you know that companies like Walmart have a lot less govt. regulation than some other industries? What industries you ask? Oh, the financial ones, and the car ones, and the airlines, and telecommunications, yea, you know, all those industries that are sucking ass because of govt. strings pulling them. And to suggest I'm in favor of a dictatorship makes me laugh.

[Twiggy269]

Socialism in its nazi usage this term is not restricted to a theory of economics; it is to be understood in a fundamental sense. it was the principle of collectivism as such and its corollary, statism, in every field of human action. Goebbels said "To be a socialist, is to submit the i to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole." They just happened to also practice what they preached.

[Twiggy269]

there is no difference between the principles, policies and practical results of socialism. (and yes mr. smarty, socialism is a tyranny) Do not try and fool yourself about its nature. there is no such dichotomy as human rights vs. property rights. You cannot have one without the other. Since material goods,(money) are produced by the mind and effort of individual men, and are needed to sustain their OWN lives, if the producer does not own the result of his effort, he does not own his life.

[Twiggy269]

Since you attempted to teach me something with all your garble, ill do the same.

Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good.

[SpookeyR]

....I've come back!!? Where did I go?! When did this happen?!?

I've never been a paultard! I've been insulting Ron Paul and the paultards on youtube for over a year!!

[Twiggy269]

first off, America is NOT (or was not at least) a Democracy, it WAS a constitutional republic. Democracy = mob rule, (i.e. majority gets to vote your rights away). Btw, Socialism is no different than any other historical or even pre-historical tyranny. It can be established by force, (USSR), or by vote (Nazi's) The degree(of socialism)can be total (russia) or partial, (England or United States) The differences are superficial, in the end it all becomes the same. Socialism = economic collapse

[ezyccn30]

obama is a socialist and me too... i am proud of it!!!!!

[Twiggy269]

you must have forgotten that socialism is an old, tried & tested formula, its result? Very large piles of dead bodies.

Good luck.

[ModuSublime]

Obama's tax plan makes sense.

Joe the plumber will never reach a business worth 250,000$ because Americans can't afford to pay for his services. Americans need to wake up and think about the global economy. You need a Government that will help 95% of Americans with a low income.

Note: The only reason why an American business is successful is because people can afford to purchase your service/products.

That is the American dream. You must give everyone a chance to succeed.

[puahhh1]

well with Obamas record of taxing shows he voted 2 times on raising taxes for people earning 42k. I've also heard him say 96k is upper class. And the title of the video made me laugh. "according to CNN" oh no shit they think BHO's plan is better

[roaches146]

puahhh1, he dismissed that false claim you just made on the third debate. he never said that about the 42k.

[Twiggy269]

Spread the truth .....By allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire Obama will be letting YOUR taxes increase. He wont "Increase" them himself by legislation, but allowing cuts to "Expire" IS THE SAME RESULT. Here are the numbers. IF you make $75,000 a year you will pay $3,074 more in 2010 than you did in 2007. 50,000 a year? You'll pay 1,512 more. Just 25,000 a year you say? You'll be paying more too!! $715 more. He isn't "Raising" your taxes directly, he is just allowing them to go up!!!

[SpookeyR]

What planet do you live on?!

If you make less than $250,000 a year your taxes won't go up at all!! You are fear mongering!

[Twiggy269]

really?  Is that why, Obama said 200,000 in a speech once....and joe biden said 150,000 later on, then another democrat said you'd be safe as long as you're not making over 120,000? All that is moot though, cuz once the bush tax cuts expire EVERYONE'S taxes go up, not just the "Super Rich" like obama says. EVERYONES TAXES GO UP WHEN THE BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE. duhhhh.....

this isn't brain science kids, stop listening to speeches and look for yourself.

[SpookeyR]

Fear mongering is also NOT a virtue, you politically ignorant fool!

[Twiggy269]

i'm not sure what exactly that means....but....the only thing i've done here is told the truth, which seems a bit foreign to y'all. so lets see here....

honesty = virtue

theft(i.e. socialism/taxes) = not a virtue

[SpookeyR]

Soo, your ideology is that ...fear mongering (i.e. about taxes and socialism) = virtue.

The truth (i.e. responsible gov't/taxes, which we would all be paying, in one form or another, regardless of who was president, i.e. Paul, McCain, Obama, etc..) = not a virtue, bc it tells the truth, right?

[Twiggy269]

yes you're correct that we would be paying taxes no matter whom entered office. That is not the point. I could argue that if Paul got into office he would attempt to repeal the 16th amendment and dismantle the IRS, but that is neither here nor there. I'm simply speaking of the proper role of govt. in a free society. If you think we have responsible govt, i've got a bridge in New York i'd like to sell you! :)

[SpookeyR]

Well thank God Paul shoved a cyanide pill down the throat of his own campaign, I was getting tired of hearing him explain how he would like to destroy this country by abolishing half the federal gov't.

Not that he would have become president even if he hadn't! The American ppl as a whole aren't that stupid!!

[nebaioth]

Barack will give a TAX CUT to 95% of Americans; that is, those who make less than a quarter of a million dollars: $250,000.00 - that number has not changed.

McCain is so desperate, he has resorted to doing what he does best...LYING!

[Weslo2]

Obama for pres!!

[AnywhereCamping]

It's funny to see the same people who voted for Bush.. TWICE, now knocking Obama as if he's the one who screwed up the economy or will screw up the economy. Here is the truth. Bush and the republican party ALREADY screwed up the economy - and that's a fact.

[lyricalmaniac]

WOW the Clinton News Network (CNN). Come on this is the same network that kept grillin a conservative citizen in an interview just because the party he supports, not politician, but a citizen.

[SnarfBanks]

you're absolutely right, we should be distrusting of all news, no information is reliable!

[AnarchPrince]

That's what I've been trying to tell all the obamadingdongs.

If Obama wins, I'd find it tragically humorous if the only people to loose their jobs were those who voted for him.

[beamerdreamer]

The $250,000 here is NET income, not gross income: "As a small business owner who claims small business income on your individual tax return (whether through a sole proprietorship, partnership, or S-corp) you pay individual income taxes only on your net income — or profit — not on your firms gross revenue. Accordingly, when Obama says that he would roll back the Bush tax cuts for all couples earning more than $250,000 a year... only net income that a small business owner takes home."

[bradleymw19]

sounds good but his tax plan would screw over small businesses.

[kyekye217]

the rich are bloatedly rich. force them to pay more....

[volcombillx3]

First off CNN is prolly the most objective news on tv, as they always give you the rep and dem pundit. Second Small buisnesses employ the most people and very few make a NET INCOME over 250K. From a macro perspective, as income levels rise marginal propensity to consume drops increasing demand in the markets. Progressive taxes are automatic stabilizers so your point makes little sense to me. Obama also proposes a 3k tax cut for every small buisness that hires a new employee.

[natavobi]

everyone check out the Obama-Biden Tax Calculator at the official Obama web site. you can compare McCain's and Obama's tax savings there. it's awesome.

[ashgarcia123]

who cares about how much the rich pay... THEIR RICH THEY CAN AFFORD it im pretty sure i would be complaing if i were loaded.

[wsoxman]

Add Barney Franks and Chris Dobbs on the Prison list. These 2 dopes are just lying for vote. The looked the other way. McCain warned the Congress in 2006 that regulation should be put on the mortgage companies.

[wsoxman]

I'm no great fan of McCain, But Obama's lack of leading anything, should scare citizens. This guy might be a great speaker, but his resume shows nothing in a leadership, management, supervisor position. American needs better then 2 Senators from a stinking Congress.

[wsoxman]

Obama,Nancy Pelosi,and Harry Reid are now called the Alliance of Scare. This will make our country a 1 party country. Democrat should know that Rep both President & Congress, was bad. No balance of power!

[wsoxman]

Obama "promise" without talking to the Congress, is to give 95% of the taxpayers a $1000. The problem is that 40% of the 95% don't pay any tax. So Obama wants to GIVE a welfare check and share someone else's wealth.

SOCIALISM.

[Schwarznasen]

Nonsense. There is absolutely no doubt that Obama will tax each and every one of the 60% of Americans who pay income taxes. This will be equal to hardworking Americans, already taxed to the hilt, writing a check to the unproductive and lazy 40% for doing nothing. Obama's principal objective is redistribution of wealth. This will result in nothing but "trickle-up poverty".

[stme2008]

Obama reduces taxes on anyone making under 250k a year including small business

also if any small business hires in USA and not over seas get a tax cut if they have health care or want health care another tax cut,

if they create a job in the company another cut. bush cuts in place now did it trickle down to us nope big oil uped there prices at pumps and in our homes i suport my troops paying taxes do they nope

[Grandus11]

If Obama gets elected the rich will get taxed how wonderful that also includes the company you work at, this has some side affects. Companies are in business to make money, if they start losing money what happens? They lay people off. Those people then have to get unemployment and foodstamps to survive, many may just lose their homes or businesses.

Liberal or Conservative those jobs will make up for that lost revenue and a layoff is far easier than increasing prices to a customer.

[maniac55555]

Umm doesn't the government end up paying if they go to prison? Because the gov. pays for prison supplies and the salaries of the workers. So wouldn't that just be worse?

[maniac55555]

Why did they skip, when showing the income and how much taxcut each campaign would give, the margin between 112k and 227k?

[maniac55555]

Umm... when they showed McCain's tax plan notes, why did they say the same thing twice?

[derphill]

How can Obama cut taxes for 80% of Americans?

40% don't pay taxes as is...

Oh, I know how, he's going to give them handouts.

[nulife022]

You think you'll get a tax cut from Obama? That's a knee slapper. Just like Bill Clinton's "tax cut." After the election it turned into the biggest tax increase in history.

[donnie1221]

Wait, you'll like this plan even better.... I was listening to Mancow on the way home the other day, and the math of dividing up 700billion would be almost 400 thousand dollars for each adult over 18 in the US. Why didn't they just do that and have people pay off debts and etc. etc.?

[MrChamp321]

just because some1 is poor, doesnt mean they arent hardworking, and just because some1 is rich doesnt mean they are hardworking...i can give several reasons to back it up, just sayin, and your statement sounds very ignorant..

[ragincaucasian319]

Then please show me a hardworking poor person that isnt blowing money on big screeen tvs, PS3s, car loans and eating out 4 or 5 times a week. Dont confuse poor people on social programs with people bad with money.

[roodingle]

Ragin you are right on! The people complaining are the ones who want something for nothing they're wearing bling, $200 air jordans, with a newer cell phone than anyone else, an Ipod, Xbox, chrome rims, slicks, CD collection...the list goes on.  I don't have half of all that and I work my ass off to bring in good money. Peoples values are all screwed up. They make hero's out of Barack Obama and Paris Hilton, both of whom have done nothing but appear in front of a camera to achieve success...

[kswiss111]

I guess the whole united states economy is bad with money!? Considering the stock Market broke 8000 last week. Gotta tell AIG not to spend $400,000 on vacations. Get realistic.

[Rosetteismyname]

nope, I never said it was fair--- I was lucky and grew up in the suburbs, earned a BA and now in graduate school...However, certain cousins of mine grew up on welfare- I think that the welfare system is a trap & that there are different ways to reform it but my remaining character count won't allow all of my suggestions so I shall state one. Change the program 2 forcing individuals 2 prove that they tried when they interviewed & force them to apply for jobs-audit them each week or cut them off

[Rosetteismyname]

BESIDES what a wonderful person that must make you to talk to someone that you believe to be a minor in such a foul way..

[Rosetteismyname]

I DID NOT say obama was helping the rich, I said he would...and so says his corporate campaign donations as well..His oath to serve the people is as good as Bush's...YouCant prove your legal age...we are online...idiot... "I don't know my math" You are the idiot...

[Rosetteismyname]

"I'm not of legal age" wow! I thought legal age was 18?!?! "stupid monkey" The rich won't see a rise in taxes b/c congress congress will receive lobby money that will allow tax code amendments for more write offs for the rich DUMMY... "look at your profile" that makes sense...give you more hits on your page? oh brother

[Rosetteismyname]

I am black, I don't vote for Obama b/c he is like McCain to me...."all blacks are racist?" Really, you haven't seen the world or you are sadly misguided....Obama WON'T raise a welfare check...Obama has "impressed to many rich people, so that he can't help the poor"

[kimpony]

Obama's 95% tax cut lie is so lame. He claims he's giving a TAX CUT to 95% of Americans, but half of those DO NOT PAY ANY TAXES NOW. He's actually planning on mailing them a check!

[Rosetteismyname]

interesting thoughts....kimpony...I also think that any tax increases on the rich will go hand and hand with new tax codes that will provide the rich with new tax write offs

[tmh2939]

I Obama is going to have to rethink his "plans" with what is going on in the economy.

[Rooting4Humanity]

McCain may start out as a so called maverick but he ends up folding in the end. He has folded / lost his spine during this election process and instead of coming up with concrete solutions resorted to negative attack strategies.[ Not to mention Palin.] I am voting for Obama because he is responsible, prepared. His team continues to be pro-active with solutions. [Including focusing on several aspects which will all are part of improving economic as well as social relations here & abroad.]

[rvisaac]

What good does a tax cut do you if your "RICH" boss lays you off because his taxes went up.Or worse yet he moves his company abroad.

[natavobi]

under Obama's plan taxes for small businesses will stay the same or lower.so many jobs are not affected. Taxes on big corporates are just small part of why jobs have been moved to overseas. Giving big corporates more tax cuts won't solve the issue - it just profits them more. High overall production and labor costs here in US & giving tax cut reward to companies that shift jobs overseas are the main reasons more jobs are lost under the bush admin. Obama will not give tax cuts to those companies.

[Rosetteismyname]

OBAMA = McCAIN

[natavobi]

McCain + Palin = (Bush)^2

Obama + Biden = Hope*(Change)^2

Go Obama-Biden!

[Rosetteismyname]

Obama beats McCain on sending more money and troops to Afghanistan. Neither are willing to repeal the UNCONSTITUTIONAL patriot act. Neither are willing to evacuate ALL troops out of Iraq. Obama does NOT stand for change, HE IS BOUHGT...Neither are for universal single payer healthcare Neither are for any of the key issues that the american people want... watch in 2012, "I want change" you will be saying Obama does NOT represent change!

[natavobi]

At least obama's giving us hope. The next president will need to finish the job in Afghanistan and get rid of bin laden & his followers. Iraq war started by lies - it wasn't about fighting terrorists it was supposed to be about weapon of mass destruction (it's clearly about oil).yet more lies from GOP and they have no idea how to end the war. and the war is costing 10 bil per week, a lot of lives, and yet GOP's talking about victory, which nobody cares - we just want it to end.

[Rosetteismyname]

Oh my gosh you are brainwashed...what do you think the war in Afghan is going to costs...OBAMA brings no hope when he is more of the same...especially when others state that Obama is running for Bush's 3rd term...Obama takes more money from corporate special interests...the only hope for this nation is peple like me. 3rd party all the way!

[cromagnan]

Republicans are jumping ship and backing Obama because republicans know they will make MORE MONEY...Hmmm...Repubs like money, go figure.

[savanny1976]

If you vote for McCain and your income is 70k/year or less you are: Racist or stupid. I can find other word to describe you.Even If Obama increase my taxes,how much more I will pay? maybe $100O OR $2000?. I will pay that

over 6% unemployment that republican George

or McCain tax cut and inflation that our country is suffering today!If you make more

than 100k a year McCain is your men and that's the end of middle class in America!

Republican for Wall street Democrats for Main street forever.

[adelyn123]

I wonder what will happen to professional sports in this country if Obama wins. Their taxes will go up a lot forcing the players to want more money which will in turn make the already high ticket prices skyrocket even more! Wow - If Obama gets in most of americans won't be able to afford to go to a professional sports game.

[natavobi]

Common!! Is this what you'll vote on?

[adelyn123]

Nope! I vote because all democrats say they are going to cut taxes and when they get into office they raise taxes. Clinton said he'd cut taxes on the middle class and raised them. Bush said he'd cut taxes and he did! Obama tells you what you want to hear. The scary part is Obama wants such a large government that he will drastically raise taxes to the point that he will cripple this country!

I was just pointing out that his "plan" of raising taxes will affect a lot more than people think!

[JetJagger]

From Obama's Site: "Enact a Windfall Profits Tax to Provide a $1,000 Emergency Energy Rebate to American Families"

There are 134 million wage earners in American. 134mm x $1m = $134,000,000,000 ($134 Billion). Chevron posted a $17 billion profit is '07. It would take EIGHT Chevron-sized companies forfeiting their ENTIRE PROFITS to satisfy Obama's plan. Don't forget that petroleum is also used in the manufacturing of plastics and synthetics.

Good for America? I think not.

-

[owchywawa]

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,

Force the entire village to give him their fish and he will vote for democrats forever."

[natavobi]

Home foreclosures are skyrocketing, and home values are plunging. Gas prices are at an all-time high, and we're still spending more than $10 billion every month on a war in Iraq that should never have been waged.

John McCain's campaign is doing everything it can to focus attention on false personal attacks and distractions -- but there's too much at stake for that kind of politics.

[natavobi]

The recent financial disasters, from the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to the historic drop in the stock market, are not just a string of bad luck. They are the result of years of bad decisions made in favor of big corporate special interests instead of America's working families. More than 600,000 Americans have lost their jobs since January.

[SunnyKid975]

AARP (American Assoc of Retired People) states: McCains budget, while providing huge tax cuts for the wealthy and higher healthcare premiums for workers, will cost $100 Billion MORE than Obama's budget, which will provide LOWER taxes for average Americans, more affordable healthcare, and ease access to higher education.

McCain will borrow money to pay for his budget shortfall, Obama will pay for it through higher taxes on upper income earners and corporations that move jobs offshore.

[owchywawa]

"McCains budget, while providing huge tax cuts for the wealthy and higher healthcare premiums for workers"

Why would there be higher healthcare costs?

"McCain will borrow money to pay for his budget shortfall"

Nope. He stop spending so much money. Obama wants to tax, and spend.

[electrodyne1]

McCains TAX INCREASE on the working man (and woman):

The McCain health plan would treat employer-paid health benefits as income that employees would have to pay taxes on.

What is this man thinking?

[natavobi]

The culture of corruption and dishonesty that has hurt America so badly the last eight years is playing an even larger role in McCain's campaign. Just this past week, John McCain hired a Washington super-lobbyist to fill positions in a potential McCain-Palin White House. At least 177 lobbyists have been on McCain's campaign staff, and apparently he hopes to run the White House the same way.

[natavobi]

Even Karl Rove had to admit yesterday that the McCain campaign's lies and negative attacks have gone "too far." John McCain is running the most negative and dishonest campaign in modern presidential history. He has demonstrated that he'd rather lose his integrity than lose this election. It's right out of the Bush-Rove playbook. Unfortunately, as Karl Rove knows better than anyone, these shameful tactics have worked in the past. This year, we can't let that happen.

[cobwebhead]

Of course in 1960, folks making over $400k paid 90%. Class warfare is over (my friends) and the middle class has already lost.

[stealth63]

McCain's own chief economic advisor,Douglas Holtz-Eakin, in his soon to be released book, says that the next pres will have to raise taxes. Even with McCains pie in the sky idea of cutting all earmarks, it won't begin to cover the budget shortfall. I thought repubs were supposed to be fiscally conservative. Why does the deficit always explode when they are in office? Why is McSame still pretending he will make the Bush tax breaks permanent? Where's the straight talk? What BS

[natavobi]

And how many houses does McCain own? about 7 or 9 he's not so sure. And how much are the shoes McCain's wearing?

[natavobi]

The truth: Under Clinton admin: + Record surpluses + more health care benefits + 22 million new jobs + increasing working family incomes to nearly $7500 a year + almost 8 million Americans lifted out of poverty Under Bush admin: + $407 billion budget deficit + Millions more losing their health insurance + only 5 million new jobs + declined working family incomes of more than $2000/year + 5.5 million people driven into poverty And now the Reps want another 4 more years?

[zzzxxyy]

Wake up America! Would you vote for a man that will save you a $1000 a year on taxes, or a man that will give the rich a $45,000 tax break! Read it up folks! Obama has my vote!

[natavobi]

The very recent figures:

84,000 jobs lost in August 08;

unemployment rate at 1.6% - the highest in 5 years;

$407 Billion in budget deficit.

[stewart0312]

Anyone who earns less than $112,000 and votes for McCain is a fucking idiot. Good thing for McCain is that there are plenty of idiots who vote.

[stewart0312]

Good to see the media finally calling these guys out on their lies!

[ebleyes]

the figures are skewed in the upper bracket, the real increase in taxes for Obama is for 2.8 mil or more. For 600K-2M it is much lower than 116K increase.

[intron1]

Wait... I remember the McCain/Bush plan... Reagan called it "trickle down economics", people I knew called it "pissed on economics". It sucked then and it sucks now (unless you are rich that is - depending on your definition of rich).

[StoneSoupVideos]

Nothing Johnny McWingNut says is believable any longer; he crashed the "straight talk express" into lipstick wearing viper in Wasilla...

[abaxteria]

Well, if CNN says Obama's plan is the best, doesn't that settle it? Because when I think of impartial reporting, I think CNN!

[natavobi]

At least, unlike McCain's, Obama's tax plan is going to be 'different' from Bush's. We already know how well McCain's tax plan will work - no difference from Bush's. The thing is McCain used to stand against making Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy Americans but now he's supporting it. Obama's plan may not be the best but it's clearly better for most Americans.

[abaxteria]

Actually, every time taxes are increased on the so-called wealthy, government revenues decrease. And Obama's proposed tax credits aren't credits at all, since it's not money the recipients have paid into the system. It's money taken from others and distributed. Obama has serious socialist leanings that, sadly, appeal to our growing freeloader culture.

[natavobi]

I disagree. McCain's huge tax cuts for the wealthy (people who make 600K or more a year) won't help the gov revenues either. Bush admin's leaving about $407 billion of budget deficit. Now who's gonna take care of that? Next generations? McCain's tax cut message is only good for political purposes just like the way he picked his VP (it's obviously a political game). Tax credits, though not a long term solution, will work like a stimulus package to help people during the economic downturn.

[abaxteria]

Tax cuts, including those to the wealthy, do result in increased government revenue. An ambitious business owner invests in his organization, which results in jobs and increased sales, etc. Whereas a tax credit to a welfare mother basically gives her money to buy extra cigarettes and lottery tickets. Redistribution of wealth is pure socialism and never helped an economy thrive.

[natavobi]

The McCain campaign's so good at name calling, associating Obama with socialism, or calling him a celebrity for his ability to inspire people. But the truth is: giving tax credits does not imply socialism. McCain wants a gas tax break during summer, and Bush just signed a stimulus package; these are also more or less 'wealth distribution', so does McCain/Bush have socialist leanings too? One thing, now Palin's become a real celebrity & she doesn't even have to do much, just to remain unknown.

[abaxteria]

I completely agree that the stimulus packages are stupid -- nothing but vote-buying attempts. But a gas tax holiday isn't a tax credit, but rather a temporary tax reduction. If the government took the gas taxes you and I paid and gave them to other people who met certain inane criteria, they would qualify as tax credits. And if you did some reading about Obama, you'd find he's always been enamored with Marxism. He admits it proudly in his first biography.

[blacknosugarnocream]

That is simply untrue. You cannot cut the amount of taxes paid into the system and then claim revenue is increased. The taxes ARE the revenue. Additionally, unless you cut spending more than you decrease taxes you cannot get an increase in revenue. And, we all know that the gov't has grown under this administration (and other GOP admins) so the spending has NOT decreased.

[natavobi]

Good point, blacknosugarnocream!! thanks.

[natavobi]

abaxteria, I start to like you. The thing about the McCain campaign is that they want people to associate Obama with socialism or being unpatriotic, which is simply not true. The Reps think if you're not with them you're unpatriotic & keep telling people how much they love this country during the RNC but this election's never been about patriotism or experience. Both Reps & Dems are equally patriotic but who's going to bring about the real change? McCain? he voted with Bush 90% of the time.

[abaxteria]

Actually, that 90% stat that just surfaced isn't quite accurate. McCain has been kind of a healthy (at least in my opinion) thorn in Bush's side. He does that so people will call him "maverick" -- a term he finds appealing the way a geek does when someone casually refers to him him as "stud." Obama links himself to Marxism in his first book (and with the Global Poverty Act).

[natavobi]

McCain said that himself that he's in agreement with Bush most of the time and that he voted with Bush 90% of the time. He was a healthy thorn in Bush's side when he ran against Bush in 2000. But since then, he's not with Bush only 10%. McCain may be a maverick but he's a very ambitious one who would do or say anything to get elected. Enough about socialism already. Marxism is just a theory but it doesn't always mean socialism. Calling Obama a socialist is simply not true.

[BrezhnevIsMyCoPilot]

abaxteria, if you actually knew what Marxism is, then you wouldn't be accusing Obama of being one. And if you actually knew what the Global Poverty Act was, then you'd realize you have no point at all. Unless of course you want to accuse George W. Bush and the other G8 leaders (who set the Milennium targets for which that bill is concerned) of being Marxists, that is, if redistribution of income is what Marxism is about, which it is not...

[abaxteria]

You're dead wrong. Lower tax rates result in increased economic activity, which means more taxes are collected. Check out the "Irish Miracle" -- taxes were reduced and now the once-destitute country is drawing business from around the world. I'd suggest you take a basic economics course.

[blacknosugarnocream]

No, I'm right and you know it. US census data and *economists* back up my assertions. Even pundits like Kudlow occasionally have to admit the truth and they, too, back up my assertions.

[blacknosugarnocream]

*lol* ... Neo-cons, evangelicals and conservatives could NEVER pull off an Irish Miracle because it would mean doing what the Irish did, in part:

1) Investing in higher education. Ireland simultaneously bolstered is ability both to generate & to attract top talent. Since the 60s, the Irish government invested heavily in higher education. Specifically, it supported the formation of technical skills in electronics & computer-related disciplines thru a system of regional tech colleges.

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[abaxteria]

I don't think any party in this country is capable of duplicating the Irish Miracle. If you think Obama's neo-Marxism will help, you're gleefully delusional. Obama is enamored with European-style economics, despite the fact that the economies of most European nations are tanking.

[blacknosugarnocream]

The only one bringing up the Irish Miracle is YOU! You suggested/implied that the goodness of GOP-style tax cuts was proven by the Irish-Miracle. I pointed out that there were other things going on in Ireland (like investment of tax revenue into higher education and technical training accessible to the masses) that brought about that miracle. Clearly the delusion is on your part.

As for your obsession with linking Marxism to Barack Obama, it is apparent that you do not know Obama's platform.

[abaxteria]

The government has doubled in size under Bush. It's hideous. But don't fool yourself by thinking government growth is exclusively a GOP thing! Obama wants to increase spending exponentially, too.  That trait seems universal among politicians.

[blacknosugarnocream]

IT is the GOP that claims to be against big government and yet it is with this administration that government has grown the most. In 2004 *discretionary* spending grew by  31.5 percent. "Overall, federal spending grew on average by 7.6 percent in each of the last two years, more than double the 3.4 percent average annual growth under the Clinton administration."

Growth is one thing, an explosion, like under this new crop (last 15 years) of republicans, is quite another.

[abaxteria]

Actually, I'm claiming both parties are guilty as sin of growing government. The government has doubled in size under Bush. A republican congress kept Clinton in check, but then betrayed voters by allowing Bush's reckless spending. And now the democrat congress is allowing it. If you think democrats are going to stop it, you are deluded. And where did you get the idea I think republicans will? Both parties are guilty as hell.

[blacknosugarnocream]

There is no equivalency there, as supported by the figures of 7.6% avg. under the GOP versus 3.4% avg. under the Democratic party.

No one mentioned anything about who could or would stop it. That is a strawman argument you're welcome to debate alone.

[integral]

Good god, those Repug hate-trolls can stretch just about any economic policy into a socialism slam if it suits their needs. Oooooo, scary, oooo, socialism. We hates it.

[integral]

Well, let's head on over to Fox and hear what they have to say. I understand they're fair and balanced.

[natavobi]

even though I don't think Fox's any more fair than CNN, let's hear about what hey have to say between Obama and McCain/Bush's tax plan, and most importantly, whose ads are telling the truth?

[OolTube]

Well, they *are* fair and balanced, actually. They look at all issues from both sides--corporatist *and* neoconservative.

Haven't you ever seen the scene from the Blues Brothers, where they ask the waitress what kind of music is played in her joint, and she replies, "we play both kinds, country *and* western."

That's what "fair and balanced" means to Fox...

[Rosetteismyname]

wow...those democrats don't like you spreading the truth about networks that claim to be "fair & balanced"...

[iamthejake2000]

john mccain is a liar.

[TylerNull]

"lies, lies, liar, ... lies, liar, ... "

Ever since their horny-hick was impeached and disbarred for perjuring himself in federal court, Liberals have been like a 2 yr old with a new word.

DemocRATs -- stuck on stupid

[dill9145]

It is buffoons like you who desperately want to believe McCain and the Republicans and continually hurt the rest of us by voting these idiots into office--then whining because the economy has gone to hell. You then turn around and blame the Democrats for your stupidity.

[TylerNull]

Not even close. McCain's a R.I.N.O.; the only reason to vote for McCain was Obama ... and now Palin, of course.

As for your recital of Obama's gospel of misery -- it's a lie:

* +7 MILLION jobs created since 2000.

* Latest GDP figure, GDP growing at over 3% annually.

* Household wealth at all-time high; +31% Since 2000.

[dill9145]

Did you pull these figures out of your ass?

[TylerNull]

"Did you pull these figures out of your ass? " -- Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, Congress, Joint Economic Committee, ...

It's not the pristine ignorance of Democrats that so impress, but the pride and gaiety they seem to take in demonstrating it.

[natavobi]

The very recent figures:

84,000 jobs lost in August 08;

unemployment rate at 1.6% - the highest in 5 years;

$407 Billion in budget deficit.

[TylerNull]

Actually, unemployment is around 6%. (In the best of times, it's around 5%.) Wall Street types can't even decide if we're in a recession.

The numbers I gave are the broader picture, and over Bush's TWO TERMS, e.g., +7,000,000 vs. -84,000.

Finally, why do Democrats keep pretending they don't like squandering other people's money? When actually discussing his plans, Obama promises lots & lots more free stuff & "investments". That's just Marxist-speak for government spending INCREASES.

[cooperson84]

squandering other people's money? free stuff?

the government isn't playing robin hood in any case...

and people who make less than 200k still pay taxes under Obama's plan. they just see the most benefits... and America has the actual budget to provide this kinda break to 80% of tax paying citizens.

McCain's welfare-plan for the rich cannot account for the 3.3 trillion dollars it will require, i think they explain cutting "pork" programs which doesnt account for 1% of that huge number

[TylerNull]

Yes. Yes.

And the government will continue to "play robin hood" under either candidate, as they have been doing since FDR's New (Socialist) Deal. That's why economists call them "wealth redistribution" programs.

Finally, contrary to the Obama-nomics lingo you recited, allowing people to keep some fraction of their earnings isn't "welfare".

[dill9145]

After checking your home page I realize there is no need to reason with you. You are a skinhead spewing hatred for any person who doesn't think as you do. The Republican party, home to all the hate mongers and mentally unbalanced.

[TylerNull]

Leftists love to distract from the message by berating the messenger.

[blacknosugarnocream]

Probably from the whitehouse website. The Economic Policy Institute (EPI), found that jobs created since 2001 pay 21% less than the jobs that were lost during that period.

dill9145, everyone not wearing 'la-la lenses' on their eyes knows that if household wealth had increased since 2000, no one would be complaining about the state of the economy. Job loss, wage reductions, healthcare premiums, food prices & an inability to keep up with housing costs would not be in the news either.

[Rosetteismyname]

TYLER...the median income has been the same within the past ten years, which means many people are working for thousands less than they did before or they haven't received any pay raises.

with that said I am not for democrats or republiCONs

3rd party for me

[TylerNull]

Regardless of what you are, your nation is a 2 party system. Some infer symmetry thereof, and get frustrated when Republicans fail to entirely oppose the never-ending bloat of government authority & spending.

The reality, however, is that there is no symmetry between advancing or even maintaining an advanced civilization, and killing it.

Given that Democrats have almost entirely criminalized most manufacturing processes, it's surprising that we maintain zero; that we haven't collapsed.

[blacknosugarnocream]

You are dead on about the economy dill9145. According to Alan S. Blinder, a professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton and former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve, "...from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats."

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[blacknosugarnocream]

Alan S. Blinder, cont...

"That 1.14-point difference, if maintained for eight years, would yield 9.33 percent more income per person, which is a lot more than almost anyone can expect from a tax cut."

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