Re: Re: RE: SPIRITUAL..........atheist?

[sk8liftlive]

I dont know how I came across your videos but I'm glad I did. A lot of people don't realize that they are living in an illusion- The American Dream. Everything is about money. I almost want to say it's inhumane but when you look around yourself you can see this mindset is everywhere. unfortunately the institutions we have in place in our society breed people to see life this way. We put so many limits on ourselves when we could be doing so much better as a species. keep thinking strong man!

[peazythatsmeazy]

this is pseudo intellectualism at it's finest. no original thoughts; just a string of terms gleaned from first year poli-sci and philosophy classes.

[lparsons17]

you're smart and beautiful

[mellowmaromi1]

Overpopulation is the biggest myth. There's plenty of room for everyone on the planet, the resources and technology exists to provide over 18 billion people with a decent standard of living. There's so much inefficiency and waste in our society, along with a scarcity that's artificially maintained. This whole system is so irrational, it's based on a series of contradictions that make it inherently unstable and leads to crisis after crisis.

[mellowmaromi1]

socialism is that planetary system.. But it takes a global revolution to establish it. It isn't just spontaneous, it can't come out of the ashes of a destroyed system, it must be built upon the shoulders of mankind's greatest achievements. I agree with you that going "back" to a "simpler" way of living is reactionary. We must look forward, not back. But capitalism offers no way forward.

[PiL182]

i love it when dumb shits try to sound smart

[peazythatsmeazy]

@PiL182 ha. you are 100% right, my friend. this guy has no clue what he's saying.

[ArrogantAtheist]

Atheists FTW!!

[daveeol]

we are industrial we are destructive we are human fossil fuels gooooooooooooood thay make us stronger they are just a foot in our ladder of greatness

[daveeol]

industrial civilation is the key to technological advancement.humans are designed to create and multiply.if you dont like it tuff were going forward no matter what.fuck meditation this earth needs action

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

This is a given for 0thouartthat0.

[daveeol]

dont know what that means

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

A given.

[daveeol]

zoom zoom zoom

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Industrial civilization was and is good and baaaaaad. zoom zoom zoom

[daveeol]

yes gooooooooooooooood and bad

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Baaaaaaaad: reliance on fossil fuelzzzzz, ECT.

[uanimale]

Whos this fagget?

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

You should get a prize.

[KingCrimson776]

What would a "planetary" civilization look like compared to this industrialized one? Would we all just be in tune with nature and shit and not be overpopulated and just... help each other out? I can't really picture what you have in mind here. Would there still be technological advancement? Not that you have accounted for all of this, it's a lot of questions. :P

[nikkidikki1]

MAAN i totaly agreeee! but there are so many people in this world that are hooked on the whole materialistic way of living. and they can't see outside of it. some people don't even think about there place in the universe, and they just go on living their lives as if there's nothing more to it.

Is it possible to have a civilization that is balanced between the materialistic and more conscious way of living? because I think that is our best bet, unfortunantly...

[mans0nh]

Agreed. Infact this was my first comment on the video.

However I think we are all comming from the same side.

We want ... need this to change.

However civilization before the industrial revolution was also destructive to the planet.

I do hope that what comes after the collapse is a conscious culture, and not a civilization.

Thanks for the video.

[feralkevin]

Amen, brother!

[wholethinker]

"Industrial civilization may have already dug its own grave"

I don't believe all countries are industrial enough and ready to be transformed (we have cannibalism at some places).

What if the transformation was successful in one country and then another country started becoming industrial with all consequences?

The attempt to build communism in one particular country failed as you remember.

[bgrist18]

pretty sure population will decrease by vast numbers when momma earth cleanses herself...that goes for industrial civilization aswell..

just hope im around to tell about it!

[eightwillwontcannot]

your hand gestures are incredibly annoying.

[outoftheboxinsight]

How can we gain consciousness if we aren't confronted with uncounsciousness. Just as we now discover that Life is illusionary formplay, so much the current world order is an illusion. Jobs cannot be created in the traditional sense, the rise of consciousness needs to be integrated in a new economic paradigm.......but for that old has to collapse, out of that comes the new...change of era.....the great transformation

[BlazzingSun]

Eternity...

The lover turned to me...and said.

Look at Me...at every turn i see a different face...my songs been heard.

my Lover dances in those eyes...and speaks thruogh many lips...it is he, that calls my song his heart and sings back his own...thruogh those lips.

i have looked deeply though the deep pale blue, with many stars...

into a God who Welcomed me...

Eternity in the Beholders eye...

but who is this?

[fordalulz123]

ooooooooooooooadjksflkadfgljkf­jkfjf

[SOCRATES012]

i thinh we need to open our minds further. imagination is the key. if you can imagine the world you want to live in, you can contribute towards creating it. It all starts with a rule of non-violence. creation as opposed to destruction. the challenge is electrifying. But are we up to it?????

[offwiththehats]

We can medicate our pains away, and I feel safe saying we do. As well as the only way to ignore the 'death and destruction' around us, is to look inward. We are witnessing the collapse of industrial civilization, in what sense?

[0ThouArtThat0]

we are witnessing the death of industrial civilization in the sense that its underlying assumptions concerning the nature of the relationship between the earth, the cosmos, and the human being are no longer relevant to our current cultural and ecological situation.

[offwiththehats]

You think there is no relevance between cultural situations and the earth? Not to mention human beings. Don't human beings create culture?

[0ThouArtThat0]

Human beings create culture and culture creates human beings, it is difficult to say which comes first. Of course our cultural situation is relevant to the earth, that is precisely my point. The industrial mindset only begrudgingly acknowledges that our economy takes place within a planetary ecosystem, a living community including other non-human beings. Because it ignores our planetary context, industrialism has gone on destroying it and only in the past few decades have we begun to notice.

[offwiththehats]

Obviously humans creation of culture came first. "Because it ignores our planetary context, industrialism has gone on destroying it and only in the past few decades have we begun to notice. " So your saying because our industrial civilization (by the war define industrial civilization) is unaware of itself, it is in turn causing it's own collapse?

[0ThouArtThat0]

Well, who is to say what human even means before a culture is there to provide a definition? And I think culture can be extended to many species that pass on learned knowledge across generations (chimps with termite sticks, dolphins with bubble rings, bears with fish-catching skills, etc.).

[offwiththehats]

That's a half-interesting point, I'm not sure. But that's not my question. Nor does the strange association of tools used by wild animals in respect to culture suffice as an answer.

What does the collapse of an industrial civilization imply? And if you dare, define industrial civilization.

[0ThouArtThat0]

The collapse can imply many things... it is a shift similar in scope to the Neolithic revolution, where the basic context of human existence is transformed. I won't oversimplify by trying to define a cultural epoch in this text box. I'll send you a link to an essay by cultural historian William Irwin Thompson that does it greater justice.

[offwiththehats]

I know what a collapse is. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm sorry for the rude remark before. I just feel that my understanding of what your saying, being very vague, is shared by you. And I'd like you to clear it up. I'll rephrase it-

What does the collapse of an industrial civilization, in your strict interpretation, mean and how are we (world citizens?) witnessing this?

[0ThouArtThat0]

Well, it is vague because there is not yet much historical distance between us and the collapse, but I think the economic situation is a good example of the shift. The meaning of "value" is changing, and the symbolic exchange of "money" (that which stands for value) has become unstable because we are not yet sure what our new values are. I'm putting together a presentation on this for a course I'm enrolled in and will put up a video soon where I clear up some of the ideas. Possibly tonight.

[offwiththehats]

Oh Okay.

You think after this economic situation, we will adopt a new 'value'? and if so, what do you think could take it's place? And are you speaking minding the paradox of commodity fetishism?

[0ThouArtThat0]

I think capitalism has certainly obscured the value of labor. So too has it obscured the value of the so called "state of nature" (Locke). I think the basis of our new values, if we expect to survive the next century as a civilization, would need to be the earth as conceived by the Gaia hypothesis as a living system. Instead of earth being abstractly conceived of as external to our economic relations, it would become the common ground we all share (both figuratively and literally).

[offwiththehats]

Word.

Revolution without Revolution (Robespierre) as it were?

But I mean, realistically, we both know our mixed economy has fluctuations that both call for times of surplus-1993 and deficit-now. I mean, do you really believe this so called collapse is, approaching in the near future, or as catastrophic as you make you out to be? So much so to rid everyone's commodity fetishism and instill mutual respect of the earth?

[0ThouArtThat0]

I don't think there are any guarantees of successful transformation. I just think we've reached a point where business as usual will bring the human species to the brink of extinction within the next 50-100 years.

[offwiththehats]

Well let's hope not.

Where are you studying?

[0ThouArtThat0]

I'm studying philosophy at CIIS in San Francisco.

[offwiththehats]

Interesting.

Is the stress on spirituality overwhelming? It seems strange to me.

[0ThouArtThat0]

The stress is on finding a way of countering the tragedy of disenchantment that doesn't require regressing into superstition. It is a struggle, because we are dealing with psychological and sociological factors that are not always open to conscious re-molding. But I think the mechanistic picture of the universe that brought about disenchantment is based on science that is now outdated. So there is room to re-think the dominant worldview.

[Manicpanicanticant]

your very good looking

[bionaught]

The new paradigm would then be a civilized civilisation!

Sharing the absolute bounty, given to us from the sun and following the laws of thermodynamics would be insanely cool. The news would be totally boring without the death and destruction and fear mongering.

Of coarse completely incomprehensible for the monkeys that are doped up...... following the alfa male. I hope you really know how much of a waste of time it is trying to awaken a pothead hiphop pretend gangster like Zack.

[LimpLoser]

wow a sane video from Matt

[isforbliss]

what to do about the population....

HOW ABOUT FEEDING THEM

HOW ABOUT INSTEAD OF PAYING FOR WARS PAYING FOR FOOD?!?!!?!?!?!!

[MaBu888]

Best suggestion so far...

[Elsocarath]

david, unless you think even more people running around is fine and dandy feeding them isn't the answer. It has to be done, but in combination with efforts to limit the growth.

THIS society growing isn't going to work. Maybe if we had a more home-grown organic life like the one you support then we could have even more people, but not the way we're moving currently.

Great video 0ThouArtThat0.. I'm going to check out some more of what you have to say.

[NowHaveaGreatDay]

isforbliss: Can you explain how feeding a population is a solution to overpopulation?

[phcou]

too utopian matt. thought you would of known better.

[dreaminginnoother]

Meditation can ease pain in multiple ways. Doing emotional work is very powerful in meditation for helping to resolve past issues and hang ups. It's good for lowering stress in general, improving will, raising 'intuition', and actually making you more capable of learning. For pain in the present, it helps you to learn to accept, and while that is the fucking hardest thing to do, that is spiritual strengthening. Cultivating presence is cultivating power.

[dreaminginnoother]

I need to specify that by accept I do not mean give up, I mean remain steadfast and unmoved or undaunted. Recognize fear or pain for what it is and do act in whatever way you can to overcome it.

[HaleyMary]

I think the inner spiritual transformation has already begun in this world. Not only valuing things like consciousness and meditation like you said, but also when I look at where science is in this day in age in terms of physics and medicine, society and culture is transforming before our very eyes.

[TheObnubilators]

i like the way you dress

[GrowthSpiral]

Matt, do you have a lighter side??? :) Are you always in the head?

[smoking3co]

all animals... i have an owl residing next to my window.....

[hepdotShrugged]

We are creating a new culture, right now...it is already started, its end is already determined. haha. maybe. damn i love this conversation and all of you...awesome time to be alive, to engage, to think, and to DO. thank you thank you thank you. badass.

[BlazzingSun]

Spoken word from within the heart of All...

You are the seeker ...bringing back to yourself what was sent beyond...Rapture of Love...you gave lips to your wings...and enlighten the discovery...that All is still Within your Heart.

[zzz33333]

how do we address population without addressing civilization?

dug otherwise

[0ThouArtThat0]

It is a question I ask myself. I don't have a good answer to it yet. Of course any answer will require addressing "civilization." If you read the article about James Lovelock in the description, it seems he thinks there is nothing to be done about over-population on our end because climate change will soon devastate our species' ability to survive in such numbers. Industrial civilization may have already dug its own grave.

[57worldwide]

You mean grow in such numbers, not survive. Humans will always survive (my opinion). Climate change is a natural process (in my opinion, maybe accelerated by humans but not caused by or avoidable).

I have replied (originally) to your comment on not being able to meditate or medicate to escape pain. Doctor is from the latin docere, meaning to teach. Educate, don't medicate (the last 2 sentences are someone else's opinion I have wisely just recycled).