You do not understand the basics of logic, and thus cannot form an informed opinion on the subject. You do not see that your worship is illogical, unsupported and weak-spirited or that you are exhibiting every quality your criticise others for.
I'm tired of having arguments with someone as insane as yourself. There is nothing new in your speech I haven't heard from other mentally challenged fundamentalists, in fact, it's the all the same.
"You do not understand the basics of logic, and thus cannot form an informed opinion on the subject. You do not see that your worship is illogical, unsupported and weak-spirited"
Don't just talk talk. Show me your evidence.
"or that you are exhibiting every quality your criticise others for."
Such as?
"I'm tired of having arguments with someone as insane as yourself."
Your problem is your presuppositions about the supernatural. You assume the notion of God from the beginning and then start from there, which leads to some absurd claims like this your comments here.
No, I do not assume the presence of God from the beginning. I have a book that claims to be from God. There are only two possibilities. Either that book is indeed from God, or it is man made. But we know that that book contains information that could not have been known to man, and thus it cannot be man-authored. We are then left with the other option, that it is indeed the word of God.
First is an Argument from Ignorance, a logical fallacy. A simple Google search will tell more about it than I care to.
Second you won't get anyway, since it only seems completely ridiculous to people who don't share your crazy beliefs. Which would probably include a good number of Muslims.
1. Regarding the argument from ignorance. If the correct shape of the earth was not known in Arabia and even in most of the world in the 7th century, then how did the Quran get it right?
2. "Second you won't get anyway, since it only seems completely ridiculous to people who don't share your crazy beliefs."
You are so arrogant and full of yourself boy, are not you? Get off your intellectual high ground because so far you have not contributed very much meaningfully.
1. Mohammad himself adopting Greek's common knowledge at the time or Quaran being edited to insert such things is what I'd say would be most plausible if it didn't get it wrong to begin with.
The point being, just because you don't know how it happened, doesn't mean God did it.
2. Yes, but I couldn't hold the candle to you in this regard. Hence, I'd advise you to take your own preaching and shove it, because you clearly wouldn't even consider following it, or even as much as acknowledge it.
1. Muhammad could not have adopted Greek common knowledge because Greece has never had any influence over Arabia, and neither was Muhammad a speaker of Greek.
2. Your problem is your presuppositionalism about the supernatural. You reject the notion of God from the beginning and then start from there, which leads to some absurd claims like this your comments here.
3. It is either the Quran is man made, or it is not. If we prove that the Quran contains information that could not have been known by muhammad, then it could not be man made. Simple, is it not?
4. I am neither arrogant nor full of myself. I am open to every possibility. I have no problem with changing my convictions as my username indicates. It is you who are full of prejudice and presuppositionalism which blind you to the facts.
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? "
lol
"He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night:"
1. The earth being spherical was not known to the general population of Europe at the time of the Quran. Only to numbered scientists.
2. People in Arabia believed the earth to be flat. If they did know it to be spherical then the Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it metaphorically. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!! Seriosuly do you guys believe this nonsense?
3. How could prophet Muhammad know that the earth was spherical when the predominant notion of his time was that of a flat earth? The only logical answer is that he was inspired by the omniscient God.
Let me see if I get your logic correct. Mohammed could have heard the world was spherical from A): scholars that knew about this for already 900 years up to that point and were in contact with the people of Arabia or B): An invisible all powerful being.
You partially got it there. Those Greek scholars were not in contact with the people of Arabia. There is no evidence for this. You cannot find any Greek influence on pre-Islamic Arabia. The Arabs at the time were very primitve people.
Thus Muhammad could have only got this information from an omniscient being = God.
Do you have evidence? Do you even have evidence they went to Arabia? I have an overwhelming evidence against this.
My point is that 7th century Arabia firmly believed the earth to be flat, not spherical. The Quran, however, says that it is spherical. Thus the Quran cannot be the product of that culture, but from someone else = God.
"muhammed included'
The Holy Quran describes a spherical earth. Watch the video again.
No, it has strong basis. If the Arabs knew the earth to be spherical then the Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. However, the Holy Quran says in a symbolic way that the earth is spherical. Thus this concept must have been foreign to those Arabs.
"oh, how do you know ? since it's an error ?"
It is not an error. The verse clearly says that the earth is spherical in a symbolic way. Watch the video again.
Interesting... Could it not also be possible that language has changed somewhat due to the Quran? English has changed much over the last 1400 years, as have other languages. Possibly reading the Quran with the knowledge of the round earth could have given those words new meaning. Just a thought.
Finally a reasonable comment! Language has indeed evolved but we are discussing the Holy Quran here according to its own terminology. The words in this video have always had the same meaning. Only two words are symbolic. When we combine them altogether we get a spherical earth.
i think you need to read the prophecies of Nostradamus or the three little pigs and the big bad wolf. analyzing those with the same "accuracy" will either make you a bad muslim or a good story teller. i think its time you are "saved" by realizing that those interpretations are the exact thing fortune tellers do. i bet if earth was discovered to be flat by modern science you would interpret the "holy" quran in a way to prove that it says earth is flat. /bored
Just thought I'd share my opinion of religion. If anyone's god eternally punishes me for my finite life then he'd be an unjust and immoral god, and I'd have doubts he would be rewarding anyone. I'm not particularly worried about the after life.
If someone proves to you that the Quran is the word of God, who created you and the whole universe, and you still refuse to acknowledge God, then God would be fair in punishing you as He sees fit. Don't you agree?
Someone couldn't prove to me the quran is the word of god by words, god would have to manifest himself somehow and show his existence, people lie and make stuff up all the time. If I was god I wouldn't see a need to have people believe in me and certainly wouldn't punish them for it. I would create for myself a hot wife and some good friends and hang out with them. I wouldn't even see a need to create an earth to begin with.
5. God would not create a hot wife and some good friends for Him because that is not in consonant with His majesty.
6. Do you agree that those who acknowledge God deserve to be rewarded and that those who reject Him despite the evidence provided to them deserve to be punished?
Fisrtly I loved this video and may allah bless u for sharing it.. SUBHANALLAH Look at the language it so fantastic.. do u know in my english exam when i use metaphors, similes and allietrations etc i get excellent marks but if i just use simple english i wont get good marks.. so the mircle of the quran is that it was also suitable for the ppl before us.. and allah did not say it directly so that those pp lbefore us dont get shock becoz they were aneducated.
He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night. He committed the sun and the moon, each running for a finite period. Absolutely, He is the Almighty, the Forgiving.
The translation is not very accurate. Please go watch the video once again. I explain how this verse says that the earth is spherical using correct exegetical methods.
[39:5] He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night. He committed the sun and the moon, each running for a finite period. Absolutely, He is the Almighty, the Forgiving.
The translation is not very accurate. Please go watch the video once again. I explain how this verse says that the earth is spherical using correct exegetical methods.
No matter how you want to put it, still your Quran and the Tafsirs still say the earth is FLAT. Isn't that sad Muslim like you Ex, ashame to admit your own book and try to make a twist here and there. But, that won't be new, isn't it? :))
1. I proved that verse 39:5 says that earth is spherical. I challenge you to find one erorr or mistake in this video. Come one, go and do it if you can!
2. I also challenge you to give me one verse that says the earth is flat! Do not bring the tafsirs because they are the works of fallible men. They are no authority. Our only evidence would be what the Holy Quran says.
It is spherical. How could prophet Muhammad know that the earth was spherical when the predominant notion of his time was that of a flat earth? The only logical answer is that he was inspired by the omniscient God.
You claim the translation of Qu'ran 39:5 says the earth is spherical. Lets check
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?
There are few mistakes in the translation. Go watch the video once again. I explain how this verse says that the earth is spherical using correct exegetical methods.
not only was it known to be spherical long before mohammed, but Eratosthenes, a greek librarian living in the then greek city of alexandria (in egypt about 240 BC) accurately measured the earth obtaining a circumference of about 40000 kilometers.
1. It was not known to the general population of Europe. Only to numbered scientists.
2. People in Arabia firmly believed the earth to be flat. If they did indeed know it to be spherical then the Holy Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it in metaphorical terms. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!! Seriosuly do you guys believe this nonsense?
bronze age sheep herders had no concept of planets when they say earth they mean the ground so if they said the ground is round they were talking about something else not the planet probably rocks or some sheepherderish bullshit
1. the Holy Quran was revealed in 7th century, not bronze age. I think you are speaking of the Bible here.
2. Verse 39:5 does not explicitely mention the word earth. It mentions the words "layl" and "Nahar" as metaphorical to the earth. Please watch the video again as I explain this in detail.
3. The verse says spherical, not round. So your point is moot here.
its not really that I'd put faith in a book from the 7th century or the bronze age the people back then were cave men in my book.
The whole world is round thing was no new idea it had been around about 500 years BCE Good thing the koran got one thing right but the rest is crap beat your wife burn your child very nasty amputations for thieves horrible barbaric cult if you ask me but the world is round yep =D
1. Why would you not put faith in a book from the 7th century? Because you do not like their way of living? This is a very weak argument. Do not shoot the messenger!
2. I know that some Greek scientists knew the earth to be spherical 500 years BCE. However, this information was not known to the lay people of Europe who cintuned to believe in flat earth until the medieval ages! it certainly was not known in Arabia either.
3. If the Arabs did indeed know it to be spherical then the Holy Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it in metaphorical terms. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!!
4. The Holy Quran does not tell us to beat our wives. I debunk this here watch?v=cYJomMNli90&feature=channel_page
5. The Holy Quran nowhere says to burn our children. Where did you get that from?
6. There is no amputation for anything in the Holy Quran. The verse you talk about regarding thieves actaully means to prevent their means of robbery, not to physically cut off their hands. You are under severe Christian propaganda.
It was not known to Muhammed or in Arabia as a whole. That's why the Quran says it in symbolic terms, not in direct terms. If it said in direct terms then none would have believed in Islam, since the predominant thought of that era was a flat earth.
I did! I said if those people at the time of Muhammed knew that the earth was a sphere, then the Quran would have said it in direct terms. However, the Quran says that the earth is a sphere in symbolic terms as not to cause a shock to those people, which proves that the people at the time of Muhammed did not know that the earth was sphere, but flat.
In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history. Recent scholarship finds that since about the 3rd century BC, virtually no educated person in Western civilization has believed in a flat Earth.
The general notion in Europe, especially among lay men, was still that of a flat earth. I do know that scientists knew that the earth was spherical, but they were numbered people.
In Arabia in the 7th century they believed in a flat earth until the Quran came. That is a fact.
It's far from miraculous to demonstrate a book mentions a detail that has been known for over 900 years. I mean it doesn't even matter if the book got it right or not. It's a weak arguement to state the wording was meant to not offend people yet it supports the death penalty for certain acts. Doesn't really sound like it was written as the feel good book of the summer if you know what I'm saying.
"how did Muhammad know that the earth was spherical". I worded my reply poorly. It was known the world was spherical 900 years 'before' the Quran. Not everyone accepted it but it was far from old news. So no points for 'miraculous'.
I know that some Greek scientists knew the earth to be spherical 500 years BCE. However, this information was not known to the lay people of Europe who continued to believe in flat earth well after the 7th century! It certainly was not known in Arabia either.
If the Arabs did indeed know it to be spherical then the Holy Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it in metaphorical terms. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!!
I bet all those verses which say earth is flat like a carpet,...or this one
88:20
{ وَإِلَى ٱلأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ
the tafsir read ;
his on a literal reading suggests that the eEarth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-haya) have it
The word ٱلأَرْضِ here means the land or ground. It does not mean planet earth.
Tafsirs are the works of fallible men. They are not sacred and actually many of them contradict what the Holy Quran says. Just go by what the Holy Quran says.
I did not say that Allah was scared to say it directly. I said that He did not say it directly because none would have accepted Islam if He did so. This is because they firmly believed in a flat earth. It would be like someone claiming to be a prophet coming to you today and tells you that the earth is larger than the sun. Of course you are going to disbelieve and ridicule him. That is why the Holy Quran says the earth is spherical in poetic/metaphorical terms.
I did not say that the Holy Quran (Not "koran") was afraid of the popular view. I said that it did not say it directly because none would have accepted Islam if it did so. This is because people at the time firmly believed in a flat earth. It would be like someone claiming to be a prophet coming to you today and tells you that the earth is larger than the sun. Of course you are going to ridicule him. That is why the Holy Quran says the earth is spherical in poetic/metaphorical terms.
1. So the Holy Quran did not cause the people of 7th century Arabia to reject it
2. And still it clearly stated a scientific fact in metaphorical terms that was unknown at all in that part of the world at the time. Win win situation.
Again, how did Muhammad know this fact? Be honest.
يُكَوِّرُ in that verse has nothing to do with the earth, يُكَوِّرُ means turning around something(in this case the earth) ,and it's regarding the day and night.
No, يُكَوِّرُ means to make a ball. It is physical. The word for turning around is "تدور" or "تلف".
Layl and Nihar here are metaphores for the earth. Layl is for the dark side of the earth and Nihar is for the bright one. That's the only logical reason since day and night do not "travel", but the earth does.
I explained above. Please note that I consider this Hadith and all the other Hadiths to be fake and authentic since they were authored 150-200 years after the death of prophet Muhammed.
Even though I consider the Hadiths fake and unauthentic, I think what the Hadith means is that the throne of Allah is the whole universe, and the sun prostrates in its orbit in its own way (Not like us humans), and then rises again around the milky way.
Yes. I am a Quran only Muslim, and thus I do not believe the Hadith, tafsirs and the books of Tabari and Ibn Isaac etc... to be authentic. Even the Hadith that you mentioned doesn't contradict science when you examine it.
I said people cannot go to the ends of the universe except by authority from God. Cosmonauts will never reach the ends of the universe. That's relativity 101 friend.
Stars do not shoot/attack anything. It's the meteorites that shoot evil demons (Invisible creatures).
These are all mistranslations. What the Quran says is that the sun moves/swims in a round orbit, runs around a specific point (The center of the Milky Way) and that it was Thul Qarnayn who saw the sun disappearing at sunset when he reached at a murky spring. Stars do not shoot. It's some meteorites who attack some invisible evil creatures.
What the Quran says is that we cannot reach the ends of heaven without God's authority. This is perfectly correct according to the relativity theory.
"It is He who created the night and the day (Earth), and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
Quran clearly says earth is round and moves around in orbits. Night and the day is earth, sun and moon each one travelling in its own orbit.
"It is He who created the night and the day (Earth), and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
Quran clearly says earth is round and moves around in orbits. Night and the day is earth, sun and moon each one travelling in its own orbit.
Pickthal, Shakir and Ali have many errors in their translations.
What 39:5 says is that planet earth is spherical because God causes both its sides (The light and the dark) to flow into each other shaping a sphere. Day (Nahar) and night (Layl) in the verse are metaphors for the bright and dark sides of the earth. I explained this in the video.
Ex..your explanation obviously is wrong. Sura 39:5 (NQ) "He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term..."
Obviously the Sura talks about allah created cycle from day to night and vice versa. Read the Tafseer cause it explain the same thing. Nice try but you fail my friend :)
No, your explanation is very wrong. The jist of the matter is in the word "yukawwir", which means to make something into a sphere. It's physical. I also explained that night and day are metaphors for the earth (One represents its bright side, the other its dark one). Tafsir is outdated and I do not have to read it. The Quran can only be interpreted using the Quran itself.
Ex: I"m not wrong but you are. Cause accusing as being wrong is just like saying those Islamic Scholars (Al-Jalalayn, Ibn. Abbas, etc..) are wrong. Are you better than those scholars? You can interpret the sura any how you want that to be but the fact of the matter even your scholars in their Tafsirs agree to what I said. This only proof that you are wrong. Sorry to disappoint you.
There are no official scholars on Islam. There is no priesthood in Islam. Jalalayn is an outdated tafsir. Ibn Abbas did not write any tafsir and the work attributed to him is a forgery. I interpret the sura according to the Holy Quran and that's how scripture should be interpreted.
LoL.. suddenly I heard a Muslim you said that those Tafsirs are outdated when they are speaking against your will.. This is new and shows how foolish you are in the religion of Islam. Trust me kid I have been there before so I know my own ex-books.
You are a typical Christian who curses and becomes angry when confronting with the truth. You were never a Muslim and this is very apparent from your knowledge and style. Go play this game with someone else, because I know you Christians by heart.
Regarding the tafsirs. They are all outdated, not only those speaking against my will. This is not just my view but the view of several Muslim scholars. I am a Quran only Muslim and interpret scripture by scripture only.
Ex: calling you foolish is not a curse since you try to interpret the Qur'an according to your will. You even mocked the Muslim scholars by saying what the have in the Tafsir is outdated cause ythey don't go with what you want. This is absurb. Those scholars are approved by most Muslims and what about you? You are not even a scholar. why should we trust you? You see how weak your argument on that video then :)
Calling someone you do not know foolish is an insult in any sane person's book, but else to expect from a christian whose book is full of curses, insults and all kinds of colourful/graphic language?
As I said, those scholars represent their opinions. Whether Sunnis or Shias consider them authentic then that is their problem. I am neither Sunni nor Shia. I go by the Quran alone according to its terminology.
Ex, I do not hv to meet you to know about you. I can see on how you commented. Something that is obviously WRONG for you to say that those Tafsirs are outdated just bcz they do not support your false argumentations. Do u even know who wrote those Tafsirs? Obviously NOT. Let me tell u that those Tafsirs are written not only by Muslim scholars but they are also ppl whom r close to ur "prophets" while Ibn. Abbas was a cousin to Muhammad. See how u miss all these ;)
Say whatever you want but the FACT is Too Many Suras in the Quran that Confirm that the Earth is FLAT and as for the record that those Tafsirs are not out of date. It is just you who can't handle the truth even when the truth are written by your own scholars.. How sad that must be to be Muslims ..lol..
Do you suffer from comprehension problems? Is that how Christianity affects the minds of its followers?
1. Show me one sura that confirms that the earth is flat! I have showed one clear verse that says that the earth is spherical.
2. Those tafsirs represent the views of its authors. They do not represent the views of Islam or all Muslims. There are several modern tafsirs that expose these old tafsirs. It's the Quran that rules over these tafsirs, not the other way around.
3. The truth is written in the Quran which says the earth is spherical. It's not written by "our own scholars". Every scholar represents himself only.
Afraid of of showing my last comments on your page? lol.. See... I come to you with lots of proves, not just one.. I understand why you are afraid of showing that comment on the page. Aren't Muslims always afraid of the truth, huh? lol..
Why not I give a few examples of FLAT Earth according to Quran.
1.Sura 2:22 (AA)"Who made the earth a bed for you, the sky a canopy,.." Who has made the earth AS FLAT & comfortable as a bed & placed upon it mountains standing firm... (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Part 1).
2.Sura 13:3 (NQ)"And it is He Who spread out the earth, and placed therein firm mountains.."
3.Sura 15:19(YU)"And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet).." & the earth We hv stretched it out,SPREAD IT FLAT (Al Jalalayn)
The examples you provided do not talk about planet earth, they talk about the land/lands that we walk on. The word "Ard" in Arabic language means earth or land. In these verses it means land.That is even what those tafsirs say.
I gave an example in this video that proves that the Quran speaks of a spherical earth. End of argument.
I would LOVE to see these tafasir where these schoolars claim that =) that's really intressting and why have you not responded to exChristian... at least you cóuld in public withdraw you'r mistake that would be more honourble inshaallah. may allah guide you
Whatever those scholars said hundreds of years ago does not matter today. We should always go by the Quran, and the Quran speaks of a spherical earth.
the clear fact is the bible explain Earth as a quadrangular(( Eze 7:2 Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land))
even if the koran says the Earth is spherical,it would not prove anything since the ancient Greeks discovered this about 1000 years before the life of Mo
It does prove a lot. Because even if the ancient Greeks knew the earth was spherical, the rest of the world, including the Middle East, was ignorant of this and believed the earth to be flat. Even as late as the 14th-15th century, the church was persecuting Galileo for daring to say the earth was spherical, and we are talking about the Catholic church which was very close to Greece.
In conclusion, the Holy Quran says the earth is a sphere, which was certainly unknown to Middle Easterners.
actually the Greek empire of Alexander penetrated the Middle East and the surroundings a very long time before Islam,so this concept was there before Mo.....
Alexander did not penetrate the Arabian peninsula. None has ever conquered Arabia. I am challenging you to provide one single evidence from pre-Islamic Arabia that proves that those people living in the middle of the desert knew that the earth is spherical. Heck, if people in Europe as late as the 15th century believed the earth to be flat (They were far closer to the Greeks than Arabs), then how is it at all possible that people in the middle of the desert would know the correct shape of earth?
Galileo was not prosecuted for saying the earth was round; he was prosecuted for saying the earth was not stationary and the universe not centered around the earth. There were apostolic figures that seem to say the earth is flat, it was not dogma and no one as far as I can find was prosecuted for saying the earth was round. Besides, Christians incorporated a lot of Aristotle, especially Aquinas, and Aristotle argued for a round earth. As such, your statements are historically wrong.
1. Even if Galileo was persecuted for saying that the earth was not stationary and the universe not centerd around the earth, it still proves that the Bible contradicts science.
2. The Bible says the earth is flat or implies that it is flat in several passages. In the book of Isaiah I believe it says that the earth is a circle!
3. Christians did not incorporate all of Aristotle! Because several of his thoughts contradicted Christianity, which of course includes the shape of the earth.
My point still stands perfectly that you were in error on the historical circumstances of these times. Again, church figures in the medieval period were not fighting for a flat earth interpretation, even from the Bible, though there were plenty of Christians in the past that did believe the earth was flat based on the Bible. So, a flat earth was never a staple of Christian dogma. I do agree that passages exist that suggest a flat earth, but that's different that what other Christian leaders said
john 17:5 jesus said And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. so if he is befor the world he is befor man and the is him sayin he is god . and ther menny more god bless
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand
You obviously think you know what your talking about so why should I sit here trying to convince a donkey to go down to the river to drink when he's not thirsty.
You do not understand the basics of logic, and thus cannot form an informed opinion on the subject. You do not see that your worship is illogical, unsupported and weak-spirited or that you are exhibiting every quality your criticise others for.
I'm tired of having arguments with someone as insane as yourself. There is nothing new in your speech I haven't heard from other mentally challenged fundamentalists, in fact, it's the all the same.
May you waste your life on a pitiful delusion.
SexyMelon 3 years ago
"You do not understand the basics of logic, and thus cannot form an informed opinion on the subject. You do not see that your worship is illogical, unsupported and weak-spirited"
Don't just talk talk. Show me your evidence.
"or that you are exhibiting every quality your criticise others for."
Such as?
"I'm tired of having arguments with someone as insane as yourself."
Thanks for your ad hominems.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
"There is nothing new in your speech I haven't heard from other mentally challenged fundamentalists, in fact, it's the all the same."
And yet you cannot respond well in a civilized manner.
"May you waste your life on a pitiful delusion."
May God bless and guide you and your loved ones.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Your problem is your presuppositions about the supernatural. You assume the notion of God from the beginning and then start from there, which leads to some absurd claims like this your comments here.
SexyMelon 3 years ago
No, I do not assume the presence of God from the beginning. I have a book that claims to be from God. There are only two possibilities. Either that book is indeed from God, or it is man made. But we know that that book contains information that could not have been known to man, and thus it cannot be man-authored. We are then left with the other option, that it is indeed the word of God.
So logical, easy and simple.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
"The only logical answer is that he was inspired by the omniscient God."
Actually that's completely and utterly illogical (it's an argument from ignorance), but you kinda missed the point of my post anyway, so... Whatever.
SexyMelon 3 years ago
OK elaborate.
1. How is it completely and utterly illogical?
2. How did I miss the point of your post?
Peace.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
First is an Argument from Ignorance, a logical fallacy. A simple Google search will tell more about it than I care to.
Second you won't get anyway, since it only seems completely ridiculous to people who don't share your crazy beliefs. Which would probably include a good number of Muslims.
SexyMelon 3 years ago
1. Regarding the argument from ignorance. If the correct shape of the earth was not known in Arabia and even in most of the world in the 7th century, then how did the Quran get it right?
2. "Second you won't get anyway, since it only seems completely ridiculous to people who don't share your crazy beliefs."
You are so arrogant and full of yourself boy, are not you? Get off your intellectual high ground because so far you have not contributed very much meaningfully.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
1. Mohammad himself adopting Greek's common knowledge at the time or Quaran being edited to insert such things is what I'd say would be most plausible if it didn't get it wrong to begin with.
The point being, just because you don't know how it happened, doesn't mean God did it.
2. Yes, but I couldn't hold the candle to you in this regard. Hence, I'd advise you to take your own preaching and shove it, because you clearly wouldn't even consider following it, or even as much as acknowledge it.
SexyMelon 3 years ago
1. Muhammad could not have adopted Greek common knowledge because Greece has never had any influence over Arabia, and neither was Muhammad a speaker of Greek.
2. Your problem is your presuppositionalism about the supernatural. You reject the notion of God from the beginning and then start from there, which leads to some absurd claims like this your comments here.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
3. It is either the Quran is man made, or it is not. If we prove that the Quran contains information that could not have been known by muhammad, then it could not be man made. Simple, is it not?
4. I am neither arrogant nor full of myself. I am open to every possibility. I have no problem with changing my convictions as my username indicates. It is you who are full of prejudice and presuppositionalism which blind you to the facts.
May God bless and guide you.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
"039.005
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? "
lol
"He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night:"
lol night OVERLAP the day ?
AceoIogy 3 years ago
Watch the video. It debunks you on this.
You do not seem to be serious at all. I pray for you.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Earth is spherical? Wow, what amazing advanced godly knowledge. What's next, earth actually rotates around the sun and not the other way around?
SexyMelon 3 years ago
1. The earth being spherical was not known to the general population of Europe at the time of the Quran. Only to numbered scientists.
2. People in Arabia believed the earth to be flat. If they did know it to be spherical then the Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it metaphorically. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!! Seriosuly do you guys believe this nonsense?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
3. How could prophet Muhammad know that the earth was spherical when the predominant notion of his time was that of a flat earth? The only logical answer is that he was inspired by the omniscient God.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Let me see if I get your logic correct. Mohammed could have heard the world was spherical from A): scholars that knew about this for already 900 years up to that point and were in contact with the people of Arabia or B): An invisible all powerful being.
sfehrenbach 3 years ago
You partially got it there. Those Greek scholars were not in contact with the people of Arabia. There is no evidence for this. You cannot find any Greek influence on pre-Islamic Arabia. The Arabs at the time were very primitve people.
Thus Muhammad could have only got this information from an omniscient being = God.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
"1. The earth being spherical was not known to the general population of Europe at the time of the Quran. Only to numbered scientists"
no actually it was the merchants who knew it. but what's your point ?
"2. People in Arabia believed the earth to be flat"
muhammed included
" If they did know it to be spherical then the Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. "
baseless claim
" It does not and instead it says it metaphorically. "
oh, how do you know ? since it's an error ?
AceoIogy 3 years ago
"no actually it was the merchants"
Do you have evidence? Do you even have evidence they went to Arabia? I have an overwhelming evidence against this.
My point is that 7th century Arabia firmly believed the earth to be flat, not spherical. The Quran, however, says that it is spherical. Thus the Quran cannot be the product of that culture, but from someone else = God.
"muhammed included'
The Holy Quran describes a spherical earth. Watch the video again.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
"baseless claim"
No, it has strong basis. If the Arabs knew the earth to be spherical then the Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. However, the Holy Quran says in a symbolic way that the earth is spherical. Thus this concept must have been foreign to those Arabs.
"oh, how do you know ? since it's an error ?"
It is not an error. The verse clearly says that the earth is spherical in a symbolic way. Watch the video again.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
even egg shaped would be wrong... the earth is flattened at its poles... an egg is "streched" at its poles [axis of symmetry]...
.... the scholars trapped themselves....
...nice...
atheism will dominate the world...
TheLiquidLight 3 years ago
The verse says the earth is spherical or like a ball, not egg shaped.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
nope it says flat
AceoIogy 3 years ago
What verse is that?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Interesting... Could it not also be possible that language has changed somewhat due to the Quran? English has changed much over the last 1400 years, as have other languages. Possibly reading the Quran with the knowledge of the round earth could have given those words new meaning. Just a thought.
jgoemat 3 years ago
Finally a reasonable comment! Language has indeed evolved but we are discussing the Holy Quran here according to its own terminology. The words in this video have always had the same meaning. Only two words are symbolic. When we combine them altogether we get a spherical earth.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
i think you need to read the prophecies of Nostradamus or the three little pigs and the big bad wolf. analyzing those with the same "accuracy" will either make you a bad muslim or a good story teller. i think its time you are "saved" by realizing that those interpretations are the exact thing fortune tellers do. i bet if earth was discovered to be flat by modern science you would interpret the "holy" quran in a way to prove that it says earth is flat. /bored
trashbuster 3 years ago
Nostradamus and his likes predicted nothing. Their "prophecies" were vague at best. We are talking about clear cut prophecies here.
Instead of saysing ifs and buts please show me one error in this prophecy or any other verse in the Holy Quran for that matter.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Just thought I'd share my opinion of religion. If anyone's god eternally punishes me for my finite life then he'd be an unjust and immoral god, and I'd have doubts he would be rewarding anyone. I'm not particularly worried about the after life.
mathmexican4234 3 years ago
Eternal punishment is not for everyone.
If someone proves to you that the Quran is the word of God, who created you and the whole universe, and you still refuse to acknowledge God, then God would be fair in punishing you as He sees fit. Don't you agree?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Someone couldn't prove to me the quran is the word of god by words, god would have to manifest himself somehow and show his existence, people lie and make stuff up all the time. If I was god I wouldn't see a need to have people believe in me and certainly wouldn't punish them for it. I would create for myself a hot wife and some good friends and hang out with them. I wouldn't even see a need to create an earth to begin with.
mathmexican4234 3 years ago
1. What would be the word of God for you? I mean what qualifications must a certain book have in order for you to consider it the word of God?
2. God will not manifest Himself to anybody because you will just perish at His sight.
3. People do indeed lie and make stuff up. That's why we have brain to use and distinguish between the genuine and the deceiving.
4. God does not need anything. He does not need to create anything [3:97]. god created all of this because He loves us.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
5. God would not create a hot wife and some good friends for Him because that is not in consonant with His majesty.
6. Do you agree that those who acknowledge God deserve to be rewarded and that those who reject Him despite the evidence provided to them deserve to be punished?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Fisrtly I loved this video and may allah bless u for sharing it.. SUBHANALLAH Look at the language it so fantastic.. do u know in my english exam when i use metaphors, similes and allietrations etc i get excellent marks but if i just use simple english i wont get good marks.. so the mircle of the quran is that it was also suitable for the ppl before us.. and allah did not say it directly so that those pp lbefore us dont get shock becoz they were aneducated.
peace be on u
afghan303 3 years ago
Thank you brother and God bless you.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night. He committed the sun and the moon, each running for a finite period. Absolutely, He is the Almighty, the Forgiving.
sheajsheaj 3 years ago
The translation is not very accurate. Please go watch the video once again. I explain how this verse says that the earth is spherical using correct exegetical methods.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
[39:5] He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night. He committed the sun and the moon, each running for a finite period. Absolutely, He is the Almighty, the Forgiving.
i dont see any hints about earth being spherical
sheajsheaj 3 years ago
The translation is not very accurate. Please go watch the video once again. I explain how this verse says that the earth is spherical using correct exegetical methods.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
No matter how you want to put it, still your Quran and the Tafsirs still say the earth is FLAT. Isn't that sad Muslim like you Ex, ashame to admit your own book and try to make a twist here and there. But, that won't be new, isn't it? :))
vterroe 3 years ago
1. I proved that verse 39:5 says that earth is spherical. I challenge you to find one erorr or mistake in this video. Come one, go and do it if you can!
2. I also challenge you to give me one verse that says the earth is flat! Do not bring the tafsirs because they are the works of fallible men. They are no authority. Our only evidence would be what the Holy Quran says.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
SUBHANALLAH!!! EARTH IS ROUND!
valerienanh 3 years ago
It is spherical. How could prophet Muhammad know that the earth was spherical when the predominant notion of his time was that of a flat earth? The only logical answer is that he was inspired by the omniscient God.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
he said it's fucking flat
AceoIogy 3 years ago
No, he never said it is flat. Nowhere. This video proves that the earth is spherical according to the Holy Quran.
And behave yourself. No curse words are allowed here. This is serious discussion. Why are you angry anyway?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
You claim the translation of Qu'ran 39:5 says the earth is spherical. Lets check
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?
No mention of the earth being spherical
Massive Fail!!! Flat Earther
DontBendOverForAllah 3 years ago
There are few mistakes in the translation. Go watch the video once again. I explain how this verse says that the earth is spherical using correct exegetical methods.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
not only was it known to be spherical long before mohammed, but Eratosthenes, a greek librarian living in the then greek city of alexandria (in egypt about 240 BC) accurately measured the earth obtaining a circumference of about 40000 kilometers.
yewt 3 years ago
1. It was not known to the general population of Europe. Only to numbered scientists.
2. People in Arabia firmly believed the earth to be flat. If they did indeed know it to be spherical then the Holy Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it in metaphorical terms. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!! Seriosuly do you guys believe this nonsense?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
bronze age sheep herders had no concept of planets when they say earth they mean the ground so if they said the ground is round they were talking about something else not the planet probably rocks or some sheepherderish bullshit
GodKillerAtheist 3 years ago
There are many errors in your comment here:
1. the Holy Quran was revealed in 7th century, not bronze age. I think you are speaking of the Bible here.
2. Verse 39:5 does not explicitely mention the word earth. It mentions the words "layl" and "Nahar" as metaphorical to the earth. Please watch the video again as I explain this in detail.
3. The verse says spherical, not round. So your point is moot here.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
its not really that I'd put faith in a book from the 7th century or the bronze age the people back then were cave men in my book.
The whole world is round thing was no new idea it had been around about 500 years BCE Good thing the koran got one thing right but the rest is crap beat your wife burn your child very nasty amputations for thieves horrible barbaric cult if you ask me but the world is round yep =D
GodKillerAtheist 3 years ago
There are many errors again here.
1. Why would you not put faith in a book from the 7th century? Because you do not like their way of living? This is a very weak argument. Do not shoot the messenger!
2. I know that some Greek scientists knew the earth to be spherical 500 years BCE. However, this information was not known to the lay people of Europe who cintuned to believe in flat earth until the medieval ages! it certainly was not known in Arabia either.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
3. If the Arabs did indeed know it to be spherical then the Holy Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it in metaphorical terms. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!!
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
4. The Holy Quran does not tell us to beat our wives. I debunk this here watch?v=cYJomMNli90&feature=channel_page
5. The Holy Quran nowhere says to burn our children. Where did you get that from?
6. There is no amputation for anything in the Holy Quran. The verse you talk about regarding thieves actaully means to prevent their means of robbery, not to physically cut off their hands. You are under severe Christian propaganda.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
7. Islam is not a cult because it is based on God alone, not nay human bings. There is no priesthood in Islam like Christianity or Judaism.
May God bless you and guide you.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
oh and since 300 bc it was known that earth is spherical.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
It was not known to Muhammed or in Arabia as a whole. That's why the Quran says it in symbolic terms, not in direct terms. If it said in direct terms then none would have believed in Islam, since the predominant thought of that era was a flat earth.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
your belief is least of interest.support your claim by evidence.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
I did! I said if those people at the time of Muhammed knew that the earth was a sphere, then the Quran would have said it in direct terms. However, the Quran says that the earth is a sphere in symbolic terms as not to cause a shock to those people, which proves that the people at the time of Muhammed did not know that the earth was sphere, but flat.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Thus the people at the time of Muhammed knew the earth to be flat.
The Quran, supposedly a product of that culture, says that the earth is a sphere, challenging the predominant notion of that time.
Conclusion: Quran = word of God, not man.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history. Recent scholarship finds that since about the 3rd century BC, virtually no educated person in Western civilization has believed in a flat Earth.
porbello9 3 years ago
The general notion in Europe, especially among lay men, was still that of a flat earth. I do know that scientists knew that the earth was spherical, but they were numbered people.
In Arabia in the 7th century they believed in a flat earth until the Quran came. That is a fact.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
and that's why quran says earth is flat, muhammed didnt know any better.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
Nowhere does the Quran say that the earth is flat. Nowhere.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
It's far from miraculous to demonstrate a book mentions a detail that has been known for over 900 years. I mean it doesn't even matter if the book got it right or not. It's a weak arguement to state the wording was meant to not offend people yet it supports the death penalty for certain acts. Doesn't really sound like it was written as the feel good book of the summer if you know what I'm saying.
sfehrenbach 3 years ago
The Holy Quran does not support the death penalty for certain acts. Killing/fighting in the Holy Quran is only allowed in self defense.
Again, how did Muhammad know that the earth was spherical when the predominant notion at his time was that of a flat earth.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
"how did Muhammad know that the earth was spherical". I worded my reply poorly. It was known the world was spherical 900 years 'before' the Quran. Not everyone accepted it but it was far from old news. So no points for 'miraculous'.
sfehrenbach 3 years ago
I know that some Greek scientists knew the earth to be spherical 500 years BCE. However, this information was not known to the lay people of Europe who continued to believe in flat earth well after the 7th century! It certainly was not known in Arabia either.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
If the Arabs did indeed know it to be spherical then the Holy Quran would have said it in clear cut terms. It does not and instead it says it in metaphorical terms. This is a strong proof against the atheist position that the Arabs of 7th century Arabia knew the earth to be spherical!!
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
I bet all those verses which say earth is flat like a carpet,...or this one
88:20
{ وَإِلَى ٱلأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ
the tafsir read ;
his on a literal reading suggests that the eEarth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-haya) have it
AceoIogy 3 years ago
The word ٱلأَرْضِ here means the land or ground. It does not mean planet earth.
Tafsirs are the works of fallible men. They are not sacred and actually many of them contradict what the Holy Quran says. Just go by what the Holy Quran says.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
what? u think 'allah' was scared to say it directly?
fuck islam
101Scarface101 3 years ago
I did not say that Allah was scared to say it directly. I said that He did not say it directly because none would have accepted Islam if He did so. This is because they firmly believed in a flat earth. It would be like someone claiming to be a prophet coming to you today and tells you that the earth is larger than the sun. Of course you are going to disbelieve and ridicule him. That is why the Holy Quran says the earth is spherical in poetic/metaphorical terms.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
it in symbolic terms, not in direct terms. If it said in direct terms then none would have believed in Islam"
you my friend are going to become a great fictional writer.
so your koran is afraid of the popular view lol , lol , lol
you just ridiculed your own koran , lol
hmt444 3 years ago
I did not say that the Holy Quran (Not "koran") was afraid of the popular view. I said that it did not say it directly because none would have accepted Islam if it did so. This is because people at the time firmly believed in a flat earth. It would be like someone claiming to be a prophet coming to you today and tells you that the earth is larger than the sun. Of course you are going to ridicule him. That is why the Holy Quran says the earth is spherical in poetic/metaphorical terms.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
1. So the Holy Quran did not cause the people of 7th century Arabia to reject it
2. And still it clearly stated a scientific fact in metaphorical terms that was unknown at all in that part of the world at the time. Win win situation.
Again, how did Muhammad know this fact? Be honest.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
يُكَوِّرُ in that verse has nothing to do with the earth, يُكَوِّرُ means turning around something(in this case the earth) ,and it's regarding the day and night.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
No, يُكَوِّرُ means to make a ball. It is physical. The word for turning around is "تدور" or "تلف".
Layl and Nihar here are metaphores for the earth. Layl is for the dark side of the earth and Nihar is for the bright one. That's the only logical reason since day and night do not "travel", but the earth does.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Not a single word that you used has the meaning u suggested, as for people read the translation and..
AceoIogy 3 years ago
Instead of this useless discourse, why do not you show me one single error in the video?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Thank you very much for your wonderful Islamic response
irfan0sakib 3 years ago 2
No problem. God bless you.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
The only shape that is extended to a wide expanse and spread to a wide extend as humans can observe must be spherical (a sphere or a ball).
Compare with bibles descriptions, a definite flat shape of four corners?
UChannels 3 years ago
True.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
I agree with you.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
I explained above. Please note that I consider this Hadith and all the other Hadiths to be fake and authentic since they were authored 150-200 years after the death of prophet Muhammed.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Even though I consider the Hadiths fake and unauthentic, I think what the Hadith means is that the throne of Allah is the whole universe, and the sun prostrates in its orbit in its own way (Not like us humans), and then rises again around the milky way.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
because you thaught the atmosephere is the lowest heaven!
ThankU4this 3 years ago
What do you mean? who are you talking to?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
i really cant remeber maybe the post was deleted ...? brother!
ThankU4this 3 years ago
OK no problems.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Yes. I am a Quran only Muslim, and thus I do not believe the Hadith, tafsirs and the books of Tabari and Ibn Isaac etc... to be authentic. Even the Hadith that you mentioned doesn't contradict science when you examine it.
I said people cannot go to the ends of the universe except by authority from God. Cosmonauts will never reach the ends of the universe. That's relativity 101 friend.
Stars do not shoot/attack anything. It's the meteorites that shoot evil demons (Invisible creatures).
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
You comments have been posted.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
These are all mistranslations. What the Quran says is that the sun moves/swims in a round orbit, runs around a specific point (The center of the Milky Way) and that it was Thul Qarnayn who saw the sun disappearing at sunset when he reached at a murky spring. Stars do not shoot. It's some meteorites who attack some invisible evil creatures.
What the Quran says is that we cannot reach the ends of heaven without God's authority. This is perfectly correct according to the relativity theory.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
"It is He who created the night and the day (Earth), and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
Quran clearly says earth is round and moves around in orbits. Night and the day is earth, sun and moon each one travelling in its own orbit.
AkshayKumarfan23 3 years ago
"It is He who created the night and the day (Earth), and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
Quran clearly says earth is round and moves around in orbits. Night and the day is earth, sun and moon each one travelling in its own orbit.
AkshayKumarfan23 3 years ago
True. The Quran is the only scripture that conforms with modern science.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Pickthal, Shakir and Ali have many errors in their translations.
What 39:5 says is that planet earth is spherical because God causes both its sides (The light and the dark) to flow into each other shaping a sphere. Day (Nahar) and night (Layl) in the verse are metaphors for the bright and dark sides of the earth. I explained this in the video.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex..your explanation obviously is wrong. Sura 39:5 (NQ) "He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term..."
Obviously the Sura talks about allah created cycle from day to night and vice versa. Read the Tafseer cause it explain the same thing. Nice try but you fail my friend :)
vterroe 3 years ago
No, your explanation is very wrong. The jist of the matter is in the word "yukawwir", which means to make something into a sphere. It's physical. I also explained that night and day are metaphors for the earth (One represents its bright side, the other its dark one). Tafsir is outdated and I do not have to read it. The Quran can only be interpreted using the Quran itself.
Watch the video again.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex: I"m not wrong but you are. Cause accusing as being wrong is just like saying those Islamic Scholars (Al-Jalalayn, Ibn. Abbas, etc..) are wrong. Are you better than those scholars? You can interpret the sura any how you want that to be but the fact of the matter even your scholars in their Tafsirs agree to what I said. This only proof that you are wrong. Sorry to disappoint you.
vterroe 3 years ago
There are no official scholars on Islam. There is no priesthood in Islam. Jalalayn is an outdated tafsir. Ibn Abbas did not write any tafsir and the work attributed to him is a forgery. I interpret the sura according to the Holy Quran and that's how scripture should be interpreted.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex:
LoL.. suddenly I heard a Muslim you said that those Tafsirs are outdated when they are speaking against your will.. This is new and shows how foolish you are in the religion of Islam. Trust me kid I have been there before so I know my own ex-books.
vterroe 3 years ago
You are a typical Christian who curses and becomes angry when confronting with the truth. You were never a Muslim and this is very apparent from your knowledge and style. Go play this game with someone else, because I know you Christians by heart.
Regarding the tafsirs. They are all outdated, not only those speaking against my will. This is not just my view but the view of several Muslim scholars. I am a Quran only Muslim and interpret scripture by scripture only.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex: calling you foolish is not a curse since you try to interpret the Qur'an according to your will. You even mocked the Muslim scholars by saying what the have in the Tafsir is outdated cause ythey don't go with what you want. This is absurb. Those scholars are approved by most Muslims and what about you? You are not even a scholar. why should we trust you? You see how weak your argument on that video then :)
vterroe 3 years ago
Calling someone you do not know foolish is an insult in any sane person's book, but else to expect from a christian whose book is full of curses, insults and all kinds of colourful/graphic language?
As I said, those scholars represent their opinions. Whether Sunnis or Shias consider them authentic then that is their problem. I am neither Sunni nor Shia. I go by the Quran alone according to its terminology.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex, I do not hv to meet you to know about you. I can see on how you commented. Something that is obviously WRONG for you to say that those Tafsirs are outdated just bcz they do not support your false argumentations. Do u even know who wrote those Tafsirs? Obviously NOT. Let me tell u that those Tafsirs are written not only by Muslim scholars but they are also ppl whom r close to ur "prophets" while Ibn. Abbas was a cousin to Muhammad. See how u miss all these ;)
vterroe 3 years ago
Those tafsirs are outdated and this is confirmed by many modern Muslim scholars.
Ibn Abbas did not write any tafsirs. Those tafsirs attributed to him were invented after his death by 150 years.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
EX:
Say whatever you want but the FACT is Too Many Suras in the Quran that Confirm that the Earth is FLAT and as for the record that those Tafsirs are not out of date. It is just you who can't handle the truth even when the truth are written by your own scholars.. How sad that must be to be Muslims ..lol..
vterroe 3 years ago
Do you suffer from comprehension problems? Is that how Christianity affects the minds of its followers?
1. Show me one sura that confirms that the earth is flat! I have showed one clear verse that says that the earth is spherical.
2. Those tafsirs represent the views of its authors. They do not represent the views of Islam or all Muslims. There are several modern tafsirs that expose these old tafsirs. It's the Quran that rules over these tafsirs, not the other way around.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
3. The truth is written in the Quran which says the earth is spherical. It's not written by "our own scholars". Every scholar represents himself only.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex:
Afraid of of showing my last comments on your page? lol.. See... I come to you with lots of proves, not just one.. I understand why you are afraid of showing that comment on the page. Aren't Muslims always afraid of the truth, huh? lol..
vterroe 3 years ago
What on earth are you talking about? All your comments have been approved. Christians fear the truth, not Muslims.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex:
Why not I give a few examples of FLAT Earth according to Quran.
1.Sura 2:22 (AA)"Who made the earth a bed for you, the sky a canopy,.." Who has made the earth AS FLAT & comfortable as a bed & placed upon it mountains standing firm... (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Part 1).
2.Sura 13:3 (NQ)"And it is He Who spread out the earth, and placed therein firm mountains.."
3.Sura 15:19(YU)"And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet).." & the earth We hv stretched it out,SPREAD IT FLAT (Al Jalalayn)
4.etc
vterroe 3 years ago
The examples you provided do not talk about planet earth, they talk about the land/lands that we walk on. The word "Ard" in Arabic language means earth or land. In these verses it means land.That is even what those tafsirs say.
I gave an example in this video that proves that the Quran speaks of a spherical earth. End of argument.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
I would LOVE to see these tafasir where these schoolars claim that =) that's really intressting and why have you not responded to exChristian... at least you cóuld in public withdraw you'r mistake that would be more honourble inshaallah. may allah guide you
AbuIsaSalafi2 3 years ago
Whatever those scholars said hundreds of years ago does not matter today. We should always go by the Quran, and the Quran speaks of a spherical earth.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
the clear fact is the bible explain Earth as a quadrangular(( Eze 7:2 Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land))
believergod3 3 years ago 2
Thank you so much brother for the excellent vedio
MAY ALLAH REWARD YOU
AMEEN
Asiaofegypt 3 years ago
The Earth is round (elipsoid) according to Quran:
79:30 He made the earth egg-shaped(The Rashad Khalifa translation)
The word used in the arabic to decribe the roundness of the Earth is "Daha"
Ample vocabularies from dictionaries regarding "Dah" and its circular shape and activities:
Asiaofegypt 3 years ago 2
In the following ample Arabic and English vocabularies below, it is clear that the Arabic word "Dah" refers to:
1- An egg or spherical shape.
2- A squatted, dumpy, pushed down or pressed spherical object.
3- A circular motion.
4- Causing to become egg-shaped(ellipsoid)
Asiaofegypt 3 years ago
is not rashad khalifah a dajjal? A kaffir who claimed to be a prophet or a messenger of Allah?
AbuIsaSalafi2 3 years ago
He did not claim to be a prophet, but I agree that he was heretic.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
even if the koran says the Earth is spherical,it would not prove anything since the ancient Greeks discovered this about 1000 years before the life of Mo
LovingEverynody 3 years ago
It does prove a lot. Because even if the ancient Greeks knew the earth was spherical, the rest of the world, including the Middle East, was ignorant of this and believed the earth to be flat. Even as late as the 14th-15th century, the church was persecuting Galileo for daring to say the earth was spherical, and we are talking about the Catholic church which was very close to Greece.
In conclusion, the Holy Quran says the earth is a sphere, which was certainly unknown to Middle Easterners.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
actually the Greek empire of Alexander penetrated the Middle East and the surroundings a very long time before Islam,so this concept was there before Mo.....
LovingEverynody 3 years ago
Alexander did not penetrate the Arabian peninsula. None has ever conquered Arabia. I am challenging you to provide one single evidence from pre-Islamic Arabia that proves that those people living in the middle of the desert knew that the earth is spherical. Heck, if people in Europe as late as the 15th century believed the earth to be flat (They were far closer to the Greeks than Arabs), then how is it at all possible that people in the middle of the desert would know the correct shape of earth?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Galileo was not prosecuted for saying the earth was round; he was prosecuted for saying the earth was not stationary and the universe not centered around the earth. There were apostolic figures that seem to say the earth is flat, it was not dogma and no one as far as I can find was prosecuted for saying the earth was round. Besides, Christians incorporated a lot of Aristotle, especially Aquinas, and Aristotle argued for a round earth. As such, your statements are historically wrong.
kirk703 3 years ago
1. Even if Galileo was persecuted for saying that the earth was not stationary and the universe not centerd around the earth, it still proves that the Bible contradicts science.
2. The Bible says the earth is flat or implies that it is flat in several passages. In the book of Isaiah I believe it says that the earth is a circle!
3. Christians did not incorporate all of Aristotle! Because several of his thoughts contradicted Christianity, which of course includes the shape of the earth.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
My point still stands perfectly that you were in error on the historical circumstances of these times. Again, church figures in the medieval period were not fighting for a flat earth interpretation, even from the Bible, though there were plenty of Christians in the past that did believe the earth was flat based on the Bible. So, a flat earth was never a staple of Christian dogma. I do agree that passages exist that suggest a flat earth, but that's different that what other Christian leaders said
kirk703 3 years ago
That is irrelevant really. You cannot deny that as late as the 15th century the dominant notion in Europe was that of a flat earth.
And the earth is a circle in the Bible, so it is flat according to that book.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Why dont you watch my video you fricking idoit and take the challenge and also see what your manmade bible says lol!
lnvestigatelslam 3 years ago 4
No, the Quran says the earth is spherical, and this video proves it. Do you have any proof to the contrary?
Have a nice day.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Ex, obviously in many verses the Qur'an states that the earth is FLAT lol..
vterroe 3 years ago
No, that's in the Bible, not in the Quran. The Quran describes the land that we walk on as flat. The word Ard means land as well as planet earth.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
jesus said i am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the father except through me john 14:6
al147316 3 years ago
Still this does not prove that he is God. It just says that you have to follow Jesus to believe in the Father (Yahweh).
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
john 17:5 jesus said And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. so if he is befor the world he is befor man and the is him sayin he is god . and ther menny more god bless
al147316 3 years ago
I believe Isaiah (Or another Israelite prophet) was with God before the world was, yet obviously Isaiah was not God.
Also, the many Jews at the time believed their Messiah had been created before all creation, yet they did not believe him to be God.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
At the time of Noah it was Noah and at the time of Abraham it was Abraham and at the time of Moses it was Moses (pbuht)
But if Jesus was the last one he would never teach his followers how to reconize a real prophet from a false one!!
he coud have simply said im the final send by God so dont trust any one!
but instead he talked about Ahmed the Arabic Prophet and the final spirit of God
So try again
lnvestigatelslam 3 years ago 4
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand
al147316 3 years ago
The funny thing is that Jesus himself was a false Christ/Messiah according to the Bible.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
very very good work brother ,Thank to Allah because you become a Muslims and defend about Islam,Allah bless you .
believergod3 3 years ago
Thank you and God bless you.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
I don't need to prove anything.
GospelTruth777 3 years ago
It's because you cannot prove anything. This video talks about the spherical earth in the Holy Quran. Do you have anything to say about that?
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Where are the other comments that you deleted or blocked eh liar deciever of satan bow down to your Lord Jesus Christ.
GospelTruth777 3 years ago
I approved all of your comments.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Yes you must your own bible says proof al things so bring your proof idoit allow me to destroy you!
The foundation of the pagan christianity is the divinity of Jesus without it there is NO christianity!
Jesus was a Prophet for the Jews and not for the doggs or swines wich Jesus called the gentiles lol
lnvestigatelslam 3 years ago 2
You obviously think you know what your talking about so why should I sit here trying to convince a donkey to go down to the river to drink when he's not thirsty.
GospelTruth777 3 years ago
If you have something meaningful then say it. Clearly Christianity has destroyed your brain cells.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Read this book son it destroys christianity bit by bit by using the bible
w w w. abdurrahman. org/comprel/what_did_jesus_really_say.pdf
I suggest you take a good look at it
but i warn you it might destroy your faith hahahaha
lnvestigatelslam 3 years ago 4
Allow my videoresponse it destroys the lie of Allah saying the earth is flat!
Salamou3laikom
lnvestigatelslam 3 years ago 4
Done.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Yes He is. You are devoid of the Holy Spirit, satan has deceived you. In the name of Jesus Christ. I rebuke you.
GospelTruth777 3 years ago
Do you have any proof for what you are saying? Obviously Christianity has destroyed your last brain cells.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Jesus is LORD
GospelTruth777 3 years ago
No, he is not.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Yes he is, and you are devoid of the Holy Spirit. Satan has deceived you. In the name of Jesus Christ I rebuke you.
GospelTruth777 3 years ago
Do you have any proof for what you are saying? Obviously Christianity has destroyed your last brain cells.
ExChristian2716 3 years ago
Can you proof that to us please
in full detailand him saying he is God?
how can God eat and come out of a vagina???
Jesus never said im God!
Christianity is pagan romam myth!
The religion of christianity is NOT in the bible NOT A SINGLE SENTENCE proofs the foundation of christianity the divinity of Jesus in the bible
I think its sad that your "holy" manmade bible doesnt speak about the foundation of your faith hahahahahaha
lnvestigatelslam 3 years ago 5
R U the christian prince?
Kite207 3 years ago
Ofcourse not! watch my video's and see how i refute and destroy his lies about Allah Muhammad (saaws) Quran and Islam!
And he is not a prince but a cowardly princesse who doesnt allow comments or videoresponses!
lnvestigatelslam 3 years ago 3