Thank god people are waking up to the capitalist propaganda and re-realizing and deprograming the illusion. Such a perversion of free trade is criminal.
If you hadn't said you don't endorse any system, I'd have figured you a classical (left) anarchist (anarcho-communist, anarcho-syndicalist or libertarian socialist etc.).
@videomakerman1232 Socialism is forced by whom? Socialism is democracy in the purest sense. Your understanding of political theory is the product of deliberate mind control by your government.
History over and over again has disproved this. In the Socialist system there many, many more have nots and the ruling class are their cronies are the only ones who own anything or have anything worth while. Check your history. No need to go back to far.just the 20th century will prove how socialism "spreads" not equally, but over many more people misery and want and lack of.
Exactly where did history prove this? Your example, please?
I don't even need history to prove the bankruptcy of capitalism.
Answer me one question. Where do property rights come from? What gives you the right to claim part of the Earth and exclude others from it with force, depriving them of the resources?
@cinde4322 What socialist society are you refering to? The only nation that are socialist are nations who claim socialism for its postive moral associations to legitimize a totalitarian one party dictatorship. The total opposite of socialism. In fact, everytime is has been attempted capitalist central bankers funded a deliberate civil war factioning and "mysteriously" the statists won everytime. Lenin and Trotsky have ample financial ties to JP Morgan, Melon and the central bank.
What is this guy talking about, we are free (in America, we have basicaly enslaved most of Latin America, and we are now working in the middle east. "God bless America!!!!" We get the stuff on wallmart cheap because of this)
@rxcort@rxcort I work 75 hours in a week (in avarage), and I still have little money for food. FOR FOOD! I am angry to the system. It has been going on about 5 years. Since I work. (And I can't break out.)
So am I free: I have a job (and I am a lucky guy), I have enough money to keep my housing, and remain a little money to food. Is this freedom?
My payment is about 293-296 USD (converted)... 260 USD is goes to my home, and the rest is for food. Bright prospects...
Capitalism is the freest philosophy we have, a system of living that should be separated from the state and the economy, much like we have separation of state and church. The big business we have today is not Capitalism, it is an unholy marriage of Government and Economy, it is Mercantilism, Protectionism, it is Political Entrepeneurship. I have responded to this video at watch?v=ChBE5EFKREE
@limewireb you are mistaking Communism as an economic system. it is a political system first and foremost. Democratic Socialism is where its at. It can make sure that people that don't contribute to society don't get anything from the rest of society. Perfected Socialism without the Communist Dictators. lol
Capitalism is dead in the United States. Capitalism is a person going out and starting a business to make a living with. What we have is a sick corruption of what Capitalism really is.
@BrettDunbar Instead of calling people names and engaging in fallacious "arguments" perhaps you should read. May a suggest starting with the concept of wage slavery?
Capatalism is the worst government system. It breeds selfishness and seperates classes as differant. True equality is not found in a system where your life revolves around money.
Capitalism doesn't have to maintain a class of "owners" and a class of "workers"... in most modern capitalist societies, the workers own and the owners work. There is no real distinction and hasn't been since World War II in the western world. Communism has a much more dramatic class system of controllers and workers, even if nobody 'owns' anything.
I can't believe how many communist there are who are believing capitalism is a bad idea. The reason we got ourselves into this deficit is, because Woodrow Wilson brought the Federal Reserve into existence in 1913 and the encroachment of big Federal gov. If you can't understand how we got into this mess then you will be enslaved because of it.
You know, I find it funny that people who dropped out of high school or partied their life away or did not pursue a higher education are the only ones complaining. Everyone has the same opportunities to succeed, you just have to take the leap of faith. Not everyone will make it and a lot will fail. That is life. People who succeed should not have to take care of the people who failed. Government is the last thing we should turn to. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. Look at
why we left Europe. We were not FREE. The government stuck their hand into everyone's business. They told us what we were suppose to believe. We did not want that kind of life. You speak out against big business and special interest groups, but what do you think big government is? I think that when you give up the will to succeed you want to take the successes of other for your-self. I am not against helping people who can't provide for themselves, but other need to work hared and make their
own money. Everyone is so caught up in suing people so they can get "free money". But when you sue someone or their business it not only comes from them but from everyone. I find it shocking that people still want to turn to the government for answers but every government run program has failed and failed miserably. Does that not make you stop and think for at least a second? I know there are bad apples in everything but when The People have the will to succeed then good things happen.
I woke up not 30 minutes ago with that exact thought on my brain.
For those who aren't sure or disagree, go to wikipedia and look up "Human Capital" (it's basically the workforce - laborers - the working class). Then go and look up the definition of Capitalism (an economic system where the means of production, CAPITAL - HUMAN CAPITAL included - are privately OWNED or CONTROLLED.)
It's as plain as the nose on your face, and just as difficult to see without a mirror...
We are all Slaves just that some are better paid slaves than others and begg for bigger crumbs.
Goverments exsist to Tax you they dont care about you lol, Why do people think they are free? Are you going to work tomorrow? why? To pay debts and pay Tax? I know this but what choice do we have?
EVERYONE IS SCARED OF THE GOVERMENT !
If your not........try not paying your slave master his money !
There is a flip side to that - the government is also the only thing that has stood between us and the abuses of Capitalism (child labor?? minimum wage?? racial discrimination??). Capitalism maintains order by forcing you to choose between poverty and the rat race. You don't even have the freedom of any common animal to put your two feet on the ground and drink water - nope - you have to work for somebody FIRST. Basically you are born OWING everything you are, to the people who OWN everything.
Check out Elizabeth Warren's book "The Two Income Trap" and there is a 1 hr lecture from her on youtube about how the middle class is slowly disappearing and becoming part of the working poor. People should not be scared of government - they should go participate in it! After all, democracy only works for those who participate in it, and right now, big corporations & special interest groups are the only ones participating. The rest of us sit at home and yell at the tv.
This begs its own question. You state, without giving any definition of slavery, that capitalism is slavery, then you go on to describe capitalism in those terms. It's drivel. Class structure does not equal slavery, and you are redefining slavery. Not only that, slavery is the historic norm in all economic systems EXCEPT CAPITALISM. You are either implicitly arguing that (by your definition) slavery is unavoidable, or you are defining any inferior or subordinate position as enslavement.
If you concede that you define tenancy of any such position as a state of enslavement, I would like to hear your definition of freedom. I suspect that freedom does not exist in your paradigm. Feel free to debate me on these terms or to refute the premise of my argument by explicating your original assertions.
@RedMenace43 No, freedom will never die. It;s socialism and regulations that caused the financial collapse. All communists deserve to die for putting humanity in slavery. Kill yourself.
The point of capitalism is that everyone is a worker. The owning class is not sitting on its ass drinking campaign and watching TV. Most CEOs, corporate lawyers, ect, work 12+ hours a day, they have no social lives, or leasure time whatsoever, Generally, in our society, as opposed to feudal society, the wealthier you are the more work you do.
oh they're working 12+ hours i feel so fucking sorry for them,you take a look at those poor people that are working in mines or rigs,risking their lives for shitty paycheck
Do you really believe that? You should come to Ireland. Our judges work twenty hours a week, get 120 euros per hour and have recently refused to take a paycut. Meanwhile the government is going to cut social welfare.
@eamonncake Poverty is subjective. Wealth is created not distributed. You're fucking brainwashed and an idiot. Capitalism is freedom whether you like it or not.
Socialism and Anarchy are two different things. If anything Anarchy is extreme liberalism, liberalism something u more likely find in capitalism than socialism which regulates so yea try robbing the shit outta someone and be prepared to be shot for being a total div i dont care
The answers you are all seeking is in Buckmeister Fuller and the other elite of the world, the scientists and economists, bankers, there is a much bigger picture. Step out of the US Education box. It's all a hoax, on 303 million people. No one gets anywhere without stepping on the next person in some form or fashion, understand?
too late to change, some of you are missing the biggest picture. the resources were all drained under your dream of the system, u gave it all away under a belief in a piece of paper that was adjusted years later by the new owners, the bankers. now 303 mil people + no resources = peace be with u.
How is this fair that some people are born intelligent and some are born stupid? If someone tells me that I will vote for whatever economic system he/she tells me to.
Capitalism is not fair, communism and socialism is not fair and world is not fair. Lots of people are born only to die in poor conditions and some are born to rule others. Everything is pre-determined. That's how the universe works and universe doesn't give a shit if you are marxist or cappitalist, because in the long run it's all the same - poor are born poor and rich are born rich (or they will be because parents will send them to expensive schools).
I think you want the prohibition of private property to be total. Please reconsider. If I don't own my own body then I am not allowed to make decisions regarding my body and my life. I don't want to be owned by either a corporation or a society. You must allow me to take care of myself. Can you do that? I want full responsibility. That requires self ownership.
I am not calling for prohibition. I am saying we need to stop thinking in terms of ownership.
We, as civilized humans, think that everything that exists is subject to being human property. We are not gods, but our culture tells us we are the gods of this earth.
Tribal people didn't own their land, they were part of it. They understood that one cannot own the earth, like one cannot own the sky.
It is not my place to force you to believe anything. Realize that you have been coerced your whole life into believing your species has the divine right to own the universe.
If you are unwilling to force me to give up my right to own property, then you cannot possibly succeed. Fortunately for you, there are a multitude of people who ARE willing to force me. The age of the individual is in danger, the age of the group is taking hold. And the group will be controlled from the shadows by a handful of elitists. Every person, every tree, every animal will suffer because your fellow comrades are unable to live in freedom. You can't have peace without freedom.
You have mistaken me for someone else. This isn't about group or individual. It is about recognizing that it IS "controlled from the shadows by a handful of elitists. Every person, every tree, every animal," IS suffering because we refuse to shed the chains of this culture and its hierarchy.
Freedom is not to blame, nor is individuality. The blame is on our culture, that dictates our image as being tainted divinity.
"The blame is on our culture, that dictates our image as being tainted divinity"
Then you wish to persuade rather than force everyone to adopt a different approach to life. Do you really think that people will freely give up their modern lifestyle in an attempt to avoid the chains of hierarchy? I don't buy it. Pre-industrial societies were saturated with hierarchy. What we really need to do is work toward banishing all forms of coercion from society--especially government coercion.
You are very wrong my friend, your belief is that it is your property based on paper, based on a bank. You're forgetting a few laws over the years that were added to the constitution by those you elected. Those you elected were put into position by the elite and bank owners.
The ownership of my belongings, especially my body, doesn't come from a bank or a god or a govt. It comes from my mind and my will to protect myself. Humans can be a dangerous species which is why we use locks. And that is why we teach our children to respect other people's property, because a civilized society is much more prosperous than a barbaric one. But with the help of Bush and Obama, our property is being tampered with more than ever.
Freedom, in a political context, means freedom from government coercion. It does not mean freedom from the landlord, or freedom from the employer, or freedom from the laws of nature which do not provide men with automatic prosperity. It means freedom from the coercive power of the state—and nothing else. - Ayn Rand
Everywhere there is socialism, people are ruled by despots and live in chains. Everywhere there is capitalism, socialists rail against capitalist despots and slavery.
I would no more listen to a socialist on the topic of freedom than I would a pirate on the topic of ethics.
I don't understand why everyone attacks capitalism. Nothing in this world is perfect. Do people honestly think if we resort to communism or socialism we will all magically become equal and free? I highly doubt that.. seeing as the elite class is also pushing for these economic/ government ideologies. Truth is capitalism has shown the most progress.. while as communism is to blame for over 100million deaths.. but no one likes to hear the truth so they just zone it out.
Exactly.. some capitalists are hardcore like Dubya. If it was up to him we'd still have children working in coal mines. I knew someone who worked for one of Ross Perot's companies. Perot treated his workers well. There is such a thing as compassionate capitalism but there aren't many examples of it.
I wasn't trying to make any form of logical argument.
I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
Yes, I know I'm being very petty. I just don't feel like talking politics on YouTube for now; it gets boring fast. That and I know neither of us are going to change our viewpoints.
A totally free market has never existed in recorded history, so you cannot say anything of the sort. Every failure I've seen you complain about on this website was caused by somebody with power doing something completely stupid.
You always cry "DOOM" when you think something has been deregulated (when usually it hasn't been) and proceed to blame every crisis in history on a lack of government control.
I'm pro communist but the capitalist own nukes and the commies doesn't...(except N korea but they're pretty much cornered)
the countries with citizens rich enough to purchase guns bans em and watches the citizen's every move.Poor countries...well they'll never be able to beat the puppet govt placed by US with stick and stones
Capitalists don't own nukes. Governments own nukes. By reducing the size of government you will reduce the ability of the US gov't to put in place puppet govt's, and reduce the amount of corporate welfare flowing to large corporations.
This how perverted this guy's philosophy is. Suppose the owner of a company wanted his little "slave workers" to be free and he told each one to leave and he fired them as worker slaves. Would they be free? Yes they are free to leave. But they have to do something to survive right? The world is their home they could hunt and fish right? Wait . Altruism is slavery of the worst kind if it is forced because the giver becomes a slave to the bum.
You have put forth nothing substantial. All you have done is call me names and tell me I am wrong.
Capitalism revolves around the production of goods and services. It also requires, in modern times, currency.
The production of goods in the current system is unsustainable. And, if there is money, there are going to be controllers. That can be proven historically.
You can continue to tell me I am wrong, but it is arrogant and foolish if you don't present any information to make your case.
There is no way to explain all of this in a 500 character comment.
Production leads to the depletion of resources.
Any economic or social system that does not benefit the natural communities on which it is based is unsustainable, immoral, and stupid. Sustainability, morality, and intelligence (as well as justice) requires the dismantling of any such economic or social system, or at the very least disallowing it from damaging your landbase.
kikarok - There is absolutely nothing to support a claim that production leads to an abundance of resources and plenty for the opposite
Actually some animals have gone extinct and near extinction that people relied on because of pursuing a profit motive. The oceans are over fished because of it, the forests and amazon itself is threatened with vanishing from those who live by the profit motive. It is hazardous to eat some fish due to pollution from others profiting
Production which has been thought through leads to abundance, my mistake. If any production leads to the permanent destruction of the resources it relies on, the person behind it is an idiot. He won't be fulfilling his "profit motive" for long at that rate.
Also, you assume we live under capitalism, which we don't, and that capitalism means a businessman is allowed to harm anyone in his way, which it doesn't.
Kikarok - That is one of the points, many are destroying the resources and are idiots. But they are motivated by the profit motive, get as much as they can now and if the resource is gone move onto another. That is one of the biggest problems with the profit motive/capitalism.
No I dont assume we live under capitalism, we do. It isn't the imaginary libertarian version but it is capitalism nonetheless or corporatism to be more specific which is capitalism too.
If you say this is capitalism, you automatically don't know what capitalism is. Capitalism is an ideal. It is not practiced in the world today. What we live under is a perverted form of the term, tainted by statism.
Kikarok - I automatically don't know? Spare me the grade school silliness ok.
Of course it is capitalism but in case you missed it I said its not the imaginary Libertarian version and that it could be called corporatism which hate to break it to you, is a version of capitalism. Its not the fictional pure unfettered kind that Libertarians always hype but it is nonetheless.
Plus why its "tainted" is because of capital not in spite of it. Wealth does it because...yes, the profit motive.
I've taken to actually calling things by what they are. When I say "capitalism," I am referring to capitalism, not some perversion thereof. When I do refer to a perverse, hideous form, I will say so. This is why I do not refer to our system as "capitalism," because it's not.
And no, it is tainted because too much power has been given to the government, not because of your "profit motive" bullshit. The government is stepping in where it doesn't belong.
Kikarok - Well what you call a perversion is laregely what capitalism has been for an extremely long time throughout the world. It has been correctly called capitalism for centuries and what you refer to as capitalism doesn't exist, nor ever could or ever will
Yes Its all about profit motive, those with wealth seek to concentrate and control and that is where Gov. comes in as Gov. is largely bought by economic interests. The corrupt financing of elections and who benefits is testement to that
Yes, it has been called capitalism, but not correctly. I use political terms according to their definitions, even though most of the world, including you, apparently, doesn't.
I agree that the current system is shit, but it's not capita... ugh... I have better things to do than type words at an obviously closed-minded YouTube douche.
Kikarok - Your not saying anything new. No correctly? As I already said yes its not the pure idealized version repeated by Libertarian type of a non-existant capitalism but it is a form of capitalism nonetheless thats existed for centuries, just not your preferred version, yes we get it.
As per your last part, I'm afraid your looking in the mirror.
You haven't said anything new either; I repeat myself because you refuse to understand the purpose of my retorts.
I don't care what people THINK a term means. I don't want people falsely calling the current system "capitalism" because that unjustly gives capitalism a bad image. Call it by what it actually is: statism.
That is ALL I ask. It's fine if you don't believe in my ideal, just don't misname it.
If you still don't get it, leave me alone. I don't feel like talking to a brick wall.
You can't refute with logic, so you resort to name calling? Not understanding a political system is no excuse for making fun of it. Shame on you. *wags finger* But really, back to the serious business: Automotives Flight Photography Film Electricity Everything that has ever been invented They were all fantasies too. What's your point?
Kikarok - I dont refuse to understand anything. You've repeated and I've clarified. We get it, you just want the fantasy laissez-faire version of capitalism to be called that but thats not the only form of capitalism. Just saying others aren't doesnt make it so
The system actually is corporatism which is capitalism too
You criticise bootme for resorting to "name calling" yet almost everything you've replied with to me has either an insult or name calling in it
Pure laissez-faire capitalism is the ONLY form which actually fits the definition of the term. Therefore, it IS the ONLY form which can correctly be called by it.
Other forms can't be accurately called capitalism, not because I say so, but because they don't fit the definition of the term.
Actually, bootme was being the hypocrite; I was criticizing him for doing exactly what he scolded me for two week ago. Had he not first criticized me, I wouldn't care.
Of course I'm going to ignore and clarify what needs clarification. No, laissez-faire capitalism is not the only form which fits the definition of the term. Just because you don't like something and want it a certain way doesn't change anything.
This nonsense about semantics is getting really ridiculous. laissez-faire is not the only thing that is capitalism, deal with it!
It doesnt change the fact that what you did is hypocritical with insults and name calling, look it up if unsure
Actually no, but to reciprocate you do nothing but prattle nonsense about what you want the word capitalism to mean despite things like the real world, too busy focused on an imaginary form of capitalism that has never and will ever exist, too busy trying to deny the facts, too busy beating your head on a brick wall of the fantasy of laisserz-faire being worth a damn, and too busy slinging insults and name calling.
When did I call you a name? I may have criticized something, or called it propaganda...
Do you know what propaganda is?
No way is right for all people. Some people might live well in a laissez-faire society, but what about those that choose not to? Any idea that imposes itself is tyranny. Not all people want to live the same way.
As long as people see themselves as separate from their environment, we are fucked. The End.
I was referring to the fact that you simply called capitalism a fantasy, and left it at that. No logic, just labeling. I only used your exact words for effect.
I have already answered that several times. You just don't get it, and at this point, whether or not you get it is none of my concern.
Off topic, but now that you bring it up, I need a healthy environment to thrive. I would benefit to keep it so. Because I am dependent on my environment, I suppose I'm not really separate from it...
The Capitalism that has existed has not done well by the world around it.
The oceans of the world are contaminated with plastic. The life in the ocean is contaminated with plastic. There is a continent of plastic the size of the US, 30 feet deep in the Pacific Ocean.
We can argue about this bullshit all day or realize there are real problems that actually NEED our attention right NOW.
Capitalism isn't going to solve many problems. We need something better than capitalism.
I agree. I don't like the so-called "capitalism" which has existed.
Let's start by not littering. And if we can figure out a way to recover and recycle all that plastic down there before it either decomposes or gets eaten by a fish/microbe which has developed the ability to digest it, all the better.
With that, the property of those higher on the hierarchy is more valuable than the lives of those below. It is acceptable for those above to increase the amount of property they control—in everyday language, to make money—by destroying or taking the lives of those below. This is called production. If those below damage the property of those above, those above may kill or otherwise destroy the lives of those below. This is called justice.
More to know about capitalism than I would ever post in a video's text comment.
So no, I did not respond only with questions.
And still, there's not much substance behind anything you're saying. You've yet to say WHY money causes hierarchy. You've only said it does, as if it's a physical property. I'm not convinced.
Do you not understand that capitalism is just a myth? There is no capitalism by its own definition.
That system does not exist. What are you defending?
Even slaves defend the master and the system that enslaves them because they have been taught that that is the only way for things to be. The idea of capitalism is a utopian fantasy.
The system in which we live, called capitalism, is a twist on the traditional institution of slavery.
I once believed the propaganda of capitalism. It's a lie
THE SYSTEM UNDER WHICH WE LIVE IS NOT FUCKING CAPITALISM
If you actually browsed that website, rather than just looking at the first part of the fucking TOUR and dismissing the entire thing as propaganda like a closed-minded moron, you'd know that.
YOU'VE BASED EVERYTHING YOU SAY ON THAT FALSE, COMPLETELY STUPID ASSUMPTION
Pure Capitalism has not existed in the USA. The closest we've ever gotten was in the late 1800's and early 1900's.
According to everything you've said, you don't know.
You constantly misdefine capitalism. You're closer with "based on-"
Capitalism IS freedom.
If someone doesn't want to be free to do anything other than infringe on another's freedom, there is something wrong with them. They must WANT to be a slave or a slaver.
It doesn't fucking matter what people THINK a term means. By lumping the current system in with capitalism, you encourage ignorance.
So, what about the people that have no choice but to live in a capitalist society and wish to live in another way?
Capitalism is not the only way for people live freely, actually capitalism cannot exist. People don't act in a way that will allow capitalism to work. In order for capitalism to work, people would have to be knowledgeable about the places they spend their money. There are people in the US who think Wal*Mart still sells all American goods.
If a community wants to be socialist, for example, they can, provided they don't infringe on anyone's freedom. "Socialist" can be replaced with any other system.
If people are too lazy to get off their asses to find out if their purchase is a good one, too bad for them. If they blindly believe an advertisement, too bad for them. Freedom to succeed comes with the freedom to fail.
If you don't think capitalism works, don't call it a good idea. Good ideas work. That's why they're good ideas.
"You can say that I don't have to live in a capitalist society, but think about how you can get out of it..."
People do it all the time,..they go on welfare.
Capitalism has nothing to do with control. Does anyone make you work for them? The worker is on the same equal ground as the company they work for. If there are more jobs than workers, the worker has the upper hand and vice versa; just like anything you buy or sell that is the nature of the free market.
Look at this fucking jerk off spewing his ignorance. This is the problem with Americans, they have no grasp of history, not even their own. If it wasn't for capitalism; if it wasn't for Menger, Mises, Hayek, we would all be serfs working for some lunatic with an Hereditary title. Our freedoms are not being stripped from us by Capitalism, but by drooling oligarchs disguised as "Patriots."
Capitalism equals compettion therefore if you aint comppetive get the fuck out of america , just like all those pussies arguing over illegal immirgration, competion is the key. if you dont like it move to a socialist or better yet comunist country
A person can work all he wants but he's not really free under capitalism. He doesnt decide how to live, his income, circumstances do. In that sense, an ownership class determines that person's way of life, a class that is unaccountable and whom no one voted for in the first place. If slavery means profiting off the labor of others, then capitalism IS a form of slavery. A working class builds the products and the owner profits from a real, physical labor he did not contribute to in the least.
What I am trying to say is no matter what you will have to work for others and they will have to work for you. Capitalism is a way to regulate that so you don't end up doing more work than you receive from society. Socialism believes everyone deserves the same from society no matter how much they put in (in simplest terms ok). What you seem to be saying is that no matter when you work for someone else (or that person has command over you) you are their slave.True in a way but that is life. Sorry
Without any suggestions all your talk is pointless. Man must work to survive and no matter what that work is, in your eyes, slavery. So if I must be a slave I prefer capitalism where I can choose where I will work, what I will buy, and how I will live my life.
I didn't say don't work for anyone, or yourself. I said that capitalism is a form of slavery.
Your point is moot, you can choose some things, but overall, the decisions of how you are going to live have been decided. If you try to live a way that this system does not accept, they will keep you from living that way.
There is no solution because someone somewhere will have to work so you can eat, be clothed, and drink water. Under your logic that person would be a slave (no matter if you pay them under capitalism or if they do it for free under socialism).
The things I am not able to do are mainly because society has felt that they are harmful, ie I can't kill someone. I don't see many things that I would be able to do in your non-slavery utopia that I can't do in capitalism.
why dont you move to russia where the life expectancy is substantially lower than ours? capitalism drives us to become better because of competition; to advance in this world, you must compete with all the others and therefore better yourself. communism, socialism, ect. are doomed to fail because if you cannot advance in the workforce, then why bother improving yourself? if you're paycheck has a ceiling because the gov't mandates it, then whats the point of working harder?
So, I don't like capitalism, I must be a commie, right?
How about looking at how capitalism, communism, and socialism are all based on the same mythological ideas. Understand that if you believe the myth, you can't see it as a myth...
These economic systems are based on the idea that the earth belongs to man. They are based on the idea that everything that exists is subject to being human property. They are based on the idea that there is one right way for all people to live.
Stop clinging to what your culture tells you is the only way. There is no "one right way" for all people to live. And any idea that maintains that it's the only way is definitely going to be tyrannical to those upon whom it is imposed.
Why not just get a decent job and try to make something of yourself??? BTW you just answered all your own questions! YOU ARE JUST DENYING THE TRUTH AND YOU KNOW IT. THINK. Earth does belong to man, and in case you haven't noticed this is proven. Who is highest on the food chain? Thats right, humans. God has given you a mind, use it.
If your a capitalist when your 20 you don't have a heart, if your not a capitalist by 40 you don't have a brain. What kind of economic system would you use to replace Capitalism? The working class has the choice and the opportunity to advance based on their own effort, intelligence and tenacity. What system doesn't have a working class and a ruling class?You're not the 1st person to think like this, everyone does, then we use logic and think it through. You can't condemn, without solutions
Absolutely, you can condemn without solutions. If the problem is not recognized, no one can offer a solution.
I think the idea of economy is a problem. Production is necessary in an economy. But, except for very few things, production is unnecessary for humans. We spend our lives producing things that lead to our death as a species.
Do you know what it was like for people before a civilized society was formed? And no you can't condemn it and not have any better solutions. Capitalism is the best we have right now, but I'm open to any new suggestions. Until you have a well thought out suggestion, quit bitchin.
I do know what it was like for people before civilization. The reason I don't have a solution is because there is no way that is perfect. There are so many ways to live. No way is going to fit to all people. If you think you can find the way for all people to live, it will be tyrannical.
What you need to understand is that a true free market , free from government intervention is part of nature. Adam Smith was right, there is an invisible hand that works for all parties involved. Socialist think that I pay my employees and run a fair and ethical biz because of government mandates. The truth is I pay my employees more because I want the best employees, I run my biz the way I do so customers will return again and again. Gov should only protect rights.
Well said dude, capitalism was, is, and can only be a failure that serves a few at the expence of the many in an unsustainable way that is currently threatening the very fabric of life itself.
I ascribe to no "ism" or ideology, only an understanding that capitalism and other top-down systems of control do not work and considering the state of things, human suffering, dwindling resources, the environment in decay, things need to change desperately or I doubt people will make it
well said! capitalism did not come about by legitimate means. if not for slavery, imperialism, colonialism, the displacement of native lands under the banner of white supremacy, etc. there would never have been the incredilbe amassment of wealth experienced by the usa and europe. the ends do not justify the means. therefore, capitalism is always componential to these concomitant negative "isms." the word "wealth" itself implies inequity and maldistribution of valued resources.
society has always been the illusion, despite the ideals upon which it is founded. there will always be a ruling class. there will always be a ruled class. hierarchy is inevitable as a body organizes, and it comes about as a result of the social individual. all individuals have competing interests, so the rulers and the ruled will arise under any circumstances with the creation of a group, regardless of size. one healthy individual is capable of self-sufficiency, even today.
Thank god people are waking up to the capitalist propaganda and re-realizing and deprograming the illusion. Such a perversion of free trade is criminal.
ped200014 3 weeks ago
If you hadn't said you don't endorse any system, I'd have figured you a classical (left) anarchist (anarcho-communist, anarcho-syndicalist or libertarian socialist etc.).
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 1 month ago
Aristotle supports slavery so fail.
Trimbler00 3 months ago
Socialism is slavery because it's forced.
videomakerman1232 3 months ago
@videomakerman1232 Socialism is forced by whom? Socialism is democracy in the purest sense. Your understanding of political theory is the product of deliberate mind control by your government.
ped200014 3 weeks ago
@ped200014
A pure democracy is not a good notion, we need a republic. Pure democracies enforce the majority's opinion to the minority.
videomakerman1232 3 weeks ago
History over and over again has disproved this. In the Socialist system there many, many more have nots and the ruling class are their cronies are the only ones who own anything or have anything worth while. Check your history. No need to go back to far.just the 20th century will prove how socialism "spreads" not equally, but over many more people misery and want and lack of.
cinde4322 5 months ago
@cinde4322 Socialism is stateless, so I don't see how history has "proved this."
60SecondAssassin1 3 months ago
@cinde4322
Exactly where did history prove this? Your example, please?
I don't even need history to prove the bankruptcy of capitalism.
Answer me one question. Where do property rights come from? What gives you the right to claim part of the Earth and exclude others from it with force, depriving them of the resources?
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 1 month ago 2
@cinde4322 What socialist society are you refering to? The only nation that are socialist are nations who claim socialism for its postive moral associations to legitimize a totalitarian one party dictatorship. The total opposite of socialism. In fact, everytime is has been attempted capitalist central bankers funded a deliberate civil war factioning and "mysteriously" the statists won everytime. Lenin and Trotsky have ample financial ties to JP Morgan, Melon and the central bank.
ped200014 3 weeks ago
What is this guy talking about, we are free (in America, we have basicaly enslaved most of Latin America, and we are now working in the middle east. "God bless America!!!!" We get the stuff on wallmart cheap because of this)
rxcort 6 months ago
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Zimanko1988 4 months ago
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Zimanko1988 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rxcort @rxcort I work 75 hours in a week (in avarage), and I still have little money for food. FOR FOOD! I am angry to the system. It has been going on about 5 years. Since I work. (And I can't break out.)
So am I free: I have a job (and I am a lucky guy), I have enough money to keep my housing, and remain a little money to food. Is this freedom?
My payment is about 293-296 USD (converted)... 260 USD is goes to my home, and the rest is for food. Bright prospects...
Zimanko1988 4 months ago
It's times like this I'm proud to sell illegal substances
69salford69 9 months ago
Capitalism is the freest philosophy we have, a system of living that should be separated from the state and the economy, much like we have separation of state and church. The big business we have today is not Capitalism, it is an unholy marriage of Government and Economy, it is Mercantilism, Protectionism, it is Political Entrepeneurship. I have responded to this video at watch?v=ChBE5EFKREE
caniacstanleycup 9 months ago
@limewireb you are mistaking Communism as an economic system. it is a political system first and foremost. Democratic Socialism is where its at. It can make sure that people that don't contribute to society don't get anything from the rest of society. Perfected Socialism without the Communist Dictators. lol
CloverfieldMonster95 10 months ago
@thehighlife755 Luxembourg. no it doesn't.
CloverfieldMonster95 10 months ago
Capitalism - An economic system based on the “Survival of the fittest”.
Socialism – An economic system based on “You get your share no matter what your contribution is”.
Communism – An economic system based on “You put in your fair share, you get your fair share”.
limewireb 10 months ago 2
Socialism is beautiful in theory but fails miserably in practice.
thehighlife755 1 year ago
Capitalism is dead in the United States. Capitalism is a person going out and starting a business to make a living with. What we have is a sick corruption of what Capitalism really is.
HoundofOdin 1 year ago
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH HOW EXACTLY DO CORPORATIONS FUCKING OWN YOU WHEN THEY PROVIDE YOU WITH PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND JOBS? You're so fucking retarded.
Nobody enslaves you. In communism everyone is enslaved and nobody is allowed to create or invent. Learn the truth you retard.
BrettDunbar 1 year ago
@BrettDunbar Corporations don't provide people with serviices and products.. Working people do.
seigneurvoland666 1 year ago 2
@BrettDunbar shut up you fucking buffoon. every crudity you right indicates you haven't got a clue what your talking about .
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
@BrettDunbar Instead of calling people names and engaging in fallacious "arguments" perhaps you should read. May a suggest starting with the concept of wage slavery?
60SecondAssassin1 3 months ago
Capatalism is the worst government system. It breeds selfishness and seperates classes as differant. True equality is not found in a system where your life revolves around money.
BiddaBiddaCherryPie 1 year ago
@BiddaBiddaCherryPie The alternative to capitalism is slavery. Quit whining.
BrettDunbar 1 year ago
Dude, what book is this from? where can i find further readings of this?
LostInThought11 1 year ago
This is still a feudalistic mindset. The great attractor of modern capitalism is class fluidity. Anyone from any class can move up or down.
Fittykent 1 year ago
mmm because under socialism and communism every one is free!! wow people. Good book. Thomas Sowells "basic economics" read it.
ACOLLEGECONSERVATIVE 1 year ago
Capitalism doesn't have to maintain a class of "owners" and a class of "workers"... in most modern capitalist societies, the workers own and the owners work. There is no real distinction and hasn't been since World War II in the western world. Communism has a much more dramatic class system of controllers and workers, even if nobody 'owns' anything.
Joebycool 1 year ago
I can't believe how many communist there are who are believing capitalism is a bad idea. The reason we got ourselves into this deficit is, because Woodrow Wilson brought the Federal Reserve into existence in 1913 and the encroachment of big Federal gov. If you can't understand how we got into this mess then you will be enslaved because of it.
antimatter7629 1 year ago
I'll take the greediest capitalist over a government sponsored do-gooder anyday.
nightflight83 2 years ago
You know, I find it funny that people who dropped out of high school or partied their life away or did not pursue a higher education are the only ones complaining. Everyone has the same opportunities to succeed, you just have to take the leap of faith. Not everyone will make it and a lot will fail. That is life. People who succeed should not have to take care of the people who failed. Government is the last thing we should turn to. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. Look at
fckliberalS7 2 years ago
why we left Europe. We were not FREE. The government stuck their hand into everyone's business. They told us what we were suppose to believe. We did not want that kind of life. You speak out against big business and special interest groups, but what do you think big government is? I think that when you give up the will to succeed you want to take the successes of other for your-self. I am not against helping people who can't provide for themselves, but other need to work hared and make their
fckliberalS7 2 years ago
own money. Everyone is so caught up in suing people so they can get "free money". But when you sue someone or their business it not only comes from them but from everyone. I find it shocking that people still want to turn to the government for answers but every government run program has failed and failed miserably. Does that not make you stop and think for at least a second? I know there are bad apples in everything but when The People have the will to succeed then good things happen.
fckliberalS7 2 years ago
A government that is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have.
fckliberalS7 2 years ago
lol slavery is a great form of cheap labor the only thing that has changed is instead of black people we use mexicans
skinnyman1423 2 years ago
I woke up not 30 minutes ago with that exact thought on my brain.
For those who aren't sure or disagree, go to wikipedia and look up "Human Capital" (it's basically the workforce - laborers - the working class). Then go and look up the definition of Capitalism (an economic system where the means of production, CAPITAL - HUMAN CAPITAL included - are privately OWNED or CONTROLLED.)
It's as plain as the nose on your face, and just as difficult to see without a mirror...
Aspetta17 2 years ago
SO TRUE,
We are all Slaves just that some are better paid slaves than others and begg for bigger crumbs.
Goverments exsist to Tax you they dont care about you lol, Why do people think they are free? Are you going to work tomorrow? why? To pay debts and pay Tax? I know this but what choice do we have?
EVERYONE IS SCARED OF THE GOVERMENT !
If your not........try not paying your slave master his money !
Lisa281977 2 years ago
There is a flip side to that - the government is also the only thing that has stood between us and the abuses of Capitalism (child labor?? minimum wage?? racial discrimination??). Capitalism maintains order by forcing you to choose between poverty and the rat race. You don't even have the freedom of any common animal to put your two feet on the ground and drink water - nope - you have to work for somebody FIRST. Basically you are born OWING everything you are, to the people who OWN everything.
Aspetta17 2 years ago 2
Check out Elizabeth Warren's book "The Two Income Trap" and there is a 1 hr lecture from her on youtube about how the middle class is slowly disappearing and becoming part of the working poor. People should not be scared of government - they should go participate in it! After all, democracy only works for those who participate in it, and right now, big corporations & special interest groups are the only ones participating. The rest of us sit at home and yell at the tv.
Aspetta17 2 years ago 2
This begs its own question. You state, without giving any definition of slavery, that capitalism is slavery, then you go on to describe capitalism in those terms. It's drivel. Class structure does not equal slavery, and you are redefining slavery. Not only that, slavery is the historic norm in all economic systems EXCEPT CAPITALISM. You are either implicitly arguing that (by your definition) slavery is unavoidable, or you are defining any inferior or subordinate position as enslavement.
conwict7 2 years ago
If you concede that you define tenancy of any such position as a state of enslavement, I would like to hear your definition of freedom. I suspect that freedom does not exist in your paradigm. Feel free to debate me on these terms or to refute the premise of my argument by explicating your original assertions.
conwict7 2 years ago
I agree with your comments.
The meaning of the word slavery has been expanded to include any situation in which you must actively sustain your survival.
By this definition, we are all born into the slavery of our hunger, of our thirst, of our need for shelter, etc.
TheNonAntiAnarchist 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
we are all slaves from the illuminatis......
TheLovingPrince 2 years ago
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lilromeodanny 2 years ago
anyways capitalism is dead
RedMenace43 2 years ago 8
@RedMenace43 No, freedom will never die. It;s socialism and regulations that caused the financial collapse. All communists deserve to die for putting humanity in slavery. Kill yourself.
BrettDunbar 1 year ago
The point of capitalism is that everyone is a worker. The owning class is not sitting on its ass drinking campaign and watching TV. Most CEOs, corporate lawyers, ect, work 12+ hours a day, they have no social lives, or leasure time whatsoever, Generally, in our society, as opposed to feudal society, the wealthier you are the more work you do.
jacobins3000 2 years ago
oh they're working 12+ hours i feel so fucking sorry for them,you take a look at those poor people that are working in mines or rigs,risking their lives for shitty paycheck
RedMenace43 2 years ago
Wen ur wealthy u work hard and return to a comfy life
Many who aren't wealth work hard and don't return to a comfy life
notice the difference?
ElectricEdgewave192 2 years ago
Yeah, In a developed country, the wealthy are those who didn't sit on their ass during school.
Kobywan007 2 years ago
Do you really believe that? You should come to Ireland. Our judges work twenty hours a week, get 120 euros per hour and have recently refused to take a paycut. Meanwhile the government is going to cut social welfare.
One law for the rich and one for the poor.
eamonncake 2 years ago 8
@eamonncake Poverty is subjective. Wealth is created not distributed. You're fucking brainwashed and an idiot. Capitalism is freedom whether you like it or not.
BrettDunbar 1 year ago
Unchecked Capitalism is evil,
"The strong rule the weak, the weak are at the strong's mercy, the strong devour the weak..."
That is what capitalism is all about
ElectricEdgewave192 2 years ago
no problem you want jungle system no problem,just don't panic when i break in to your house and rob the shit out of ya
RedMenace43 2 years ago
Socialism and Anarchy are two different things. If anything Anarchy is extreme liberalism, liberalism something u more likely find in capitalism than socialism which regulates so yea try robbing the shit outta someone and be prepared to be shot for being a total div i dont care
ElectricEdgewave192 2 years ago
The answers you are all seeking is in Buckmeister Fuller and the other elite of the world, the scientists and economists, bankers, there is a much bigger picture. Step out of the US Education box. It's all a hoax, on 303 million people. No one gets anywhere without stepping on the next person in some form or fashion, understand?
PsychoTrophyWifey 2 years ago
too late to change, some of you are missing the biggest picture. the resources were all drained under your dream of the system, u gave it all away under a belief in a piece of paper that was adjusted years later by the new owners, the bankers. now 303 mil people + no resources = peace be with u.
PsychoTrophyWifey 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
How is this fair that some people are born intelligent and some are born stupid? If someone tells me that I will vote for whatever economic system he/she tells me to.
Kozor999 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Capitalism is not fair, communism and socialism is not fair and world is not fair. Lots of people are born only to die in poor conditions and some are born to rule others. Everything is pre-determined. That's how the universe works and universe doesn't give a shit if you are marxist or cappitalist, because in the long run it's all the same - poor are born poor and rich are born rich (or they will be because parents will send them to expensive schools).
Kozor999 2 years ago
I think you want the prohibition of private property to be total. Please reconsider. If I don't own my own body then I am not allowed to make decisions regarding my body and my life. I don't want to be owned by either a corporation or a society. You must allow me to take care of myself. Can you do that? I want full responsibility. That requires self ownership.
hapspir 2 years ago
I am not calling for prohibition. I am saying we need to stop thinking in terms of ownership.
We, as civilized humans, think that everything that exists is subject to being human property. We are not gods, but our culture tells us we are the gods of this earth.
Tribal people didn't own their land, they were part of it. They understood that one cannot own the earth, like one cannot own the sky.
bootme21 2 years ago
How far are you willing to go to stop me from thinking in terms of ownership? I guarantee that I won't do it voluntarily.
hapspir 2 years ago
It is not my place to force you to believe anything. Realize that you have been coerced your whole life into believing your species has the divine right to own the universe.
bootme21 2 years ago
If you are unwilling to force me to give up my right to own property, then you cannot possibly succeed. Fortunately for you, there are a multitude of people who ARE willing to force me. The age of the individual is in danger, the age of the group is taking hold. And the group will be controlled from the shadows by a handful of elitists. Every person, every tree, every animal will suffer because your fellow comrades are unable to live in freedom. You can't have peace without freedom.
hapspir 2 years ago
You have mistaken me for someone else. This isn't about group or individual. It is about recognizing that it IS "controlled from the shadows by a handful of elitists. Every person, every tree, every animal," IS suffering because we refuse to shed the chains of this culture and its hierarchy.
Freedom is not to blame, nor is individuality. The blame is on our culture, that dictates our image as being tainted divinity.
bootme21 2 years ago
"The blame is on our culture, that dictates our image as being tainted divinity"
Then you wish to persuade rather than force everyone to adopt a different approach to life. Do you really think that people will freely give up their modern lifestyle in an attempt to avoid the chains of hierarchy? I don't buy it. Pre-industrial societies were saturated with hierarchy. What we really need to do is work toward banishing all forms of coercion from society--especially government coercion.
hapspir 2 years ago
You are very wrong my friend, your belief is that it is your property based on paper, based on a bank. You're forgetting a few laws over the years that were added to the constitution by those you elected. Those you elected were put into position by the elite and bank owners.
PsychoTrophyWifey 2 years ago
"property based on paper, based on a bank"
The ownership of my belongings, especially my body, doesn't come from a bank or a god or a govt. It comes from my mind and my will to protect myself. Humans can be a dangerous species which is why we use locks. And that is why we teach our children to respect other people's property, because a civilized society is much more prosperous than a barbaric one. But with the help of Bush and Obama, our property is being tampered with more than ever.
hapspir 2 years ago
Civilization...
Watch this: watch?v=vuXTZIKJtUw
bootme21 2 years ago
That is not a real link.
hapspir 2 years ago
post youtube com / in front of it
bootme21 2 years ago
hippie
ssahagun 2 years ago
Freedom, in a political context, means freedom from government coercion. It does not mean freedom from the landlord, or freedom from the employer, or freedom from the laws of nature which do not provide men with automatic prosperity. It means freedom from the coercive power of the state—and nothing else. - Ayn Rand
libertypursuit 2 years ago
Everywhere there is socialism, people are ruled by despots and live in chains. Everywhere there is capitalism, socialists rail against capitalist despots and slavery.
I would no more listen to a socialist on the topic of freedom than I would a pirate on the topic of ethics.
DrCruel 2 years ago
We don't really know what so called socialist countries are like. All you hear is propaganda from a corporate controlled media.
hirofan 2 years ago
I don't understand why everyone attacks capitalism. Nothing in this world is perfect. Do people honestly think if we resort to communism or socialism we will all magically become equal and free? I highly doubt that.. seeing as the elite class is also pushing for these economic/ government ideologies. Truth is capitalism has shown the most progress.. while as communism is to blame for over 100million deaths.. but no one likes to hear the truth so they just zone it out.
oblivion292 2 years ago
Why, if one points out the problems with capitalism, must he be a commie or socialist?
All economic systems in "civilized" society are inherently corrupt.
bootme21 2 years ago
Exactly.. some capitalists are hardcore like Dubya. If it was up to him we'd still have children working in coal mines. I knew someone who worked for one of Ross Perot's companies. Perot treated his workers well. There is such a thing as compassionate capitalism but there aren't many examples of it.
hirofan 2 years ago
I wasn't trying to make any form of logical argument.
I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
Yes, I know I'm being very petty. I just don't feel like talking politics on YouTube for now; it gets boring fast. That and I know neither of us are going to change our viewpoints.
Make of me what you will.
Kikarok 2 years ago
I've seen your arguments with others, and I really don't feel like duking it out with somebody as thick and stubborn as you right now.
I honestly don't care if you use this opportunity to say I'm a coward and an idiot; coming from you, it means absolutely nothing.
Kikarok 2 years ago
A totally free market has never existed in recorded history, so you cannot say anything of the sort. Every failure I've seen you complain about on this website was caused by somebody with power doing something completely stupid.
You always cry "DOOM" when you think something has been deregulated (when usually it hasn't been) and proceed to blame every crisis in history on a lack of government control.
Fuck you, I'd like to keep my freedom.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Untill exist money, it will exist owners and slaves.
AzoreanProud 2 years ago
Capitalism and Anarchy are the only 2 systems that can work
minatorus 2 years ago
Capitalism works on profit, doesnt care about people starving to death, nether war, or health, is all about profit.
By this only fact, doesnt work.
AzoreanProud 2 years ago
I'm pro communist but the capitalist own nukes and the commies doesn't...(except N korea but they're pretty much cornered)
the countries with citizens rich enough to purchase guns bans em and watches the citizen's every move.Poor countries...well they'll never be able to beat the puppet govt placed by US with stick and stones
minatorus 2 years ago
Capitalists don't own nukes. Governments own nukes. By reducing the size of government you will reduce the ability of the US gov't to put in place puppet govt's, and reduce the amount of corporate welfare flowing to large corporations.
Maxx4446 2 years ago
This how perverted this guy's philosophy is. Suppose the owner of a company wanted his little "slave workers" to be free and he told each one to leave and he fired them as worker slaves. Would they be free? Yes they are free to leave. But they have to do something to survive right? The world is their home they could hunt and fish right? Wait . Altruism is slavery of the worst kind if it is forced because the giver becomes a slave to the bum.
elar4563 2 years ago
Actually, they'd have to buy a license to fish or hunt. So, yes. They are slaves.
bootme21 2 years ago
ohhhhh boy some real deep shit hear ohhhhhhhhh boy.
Jonny0Colorado 3 years ago
You are an idiot.
Kikarok 3 years ago
You can't refute with logic, so you resort to name calling?
bootme21 3 years ago
No, there is just so much wrong with your logic that it would take too much space just to explain it.
Educate yourself on capitalism; you obviously are completely oblivious.
Kikarok 3 years ago
I know enough about it to know that it is a system that is inherently flawed.
bootme21 3 years ago
Because you say that, I know you don't.
Kikarok 3 years ago
You have put forth nothing substantial. All you have done is call me names and tell me I am wrong.
Capitalism revolves around the production of goods and services. It also requires, in modern times, currency.
The production of goods in the current system is unsustainable. And, if there is money, there are going to be controllers. That can be proven historically.
You can continue to tell me I am wrong, but it is arrogant and foolish if you don't present any information to make your case.
bootme21 3 years ago
Capitalism revolves around freedom. Production results from that.
How is production unsustainable?
Why are you using the "current system" as an example of capitalism? (it's a bad one)
Why does money automatically make controllers? Prove it without using history.
Why not try being substantial yourself, rather than just making unsupported claims? Fork up some evidence.
There's this website called capitalism,org.
It's where I am now directing you for self-education.
Is that substantial enough?
Kikarok 3 years ago
There is no way to explain all of this in a 500 character comment.
Production leads to the depletion of resources.
Any economic or social system that does not benefit the natural communities on which it is based is unsustainable, immoral, and stupid. Sustainability, morality, and intelligence (as well as justice) requires the dismantling of any such economic or social system, or at the very least disallowing it from damaging your landbase.
bootme21 3 years ago
Actually, production leads to the abundance of resources (provided they're renewable).
No animal mankind uses for some sort of production goes extinct. Why? The industry would die if they let that happen.
The lumber industry makes sure there will always be enough trees. Why? The industry would die without them.
Private property tends to be kept in great shape. Why? It's more valuable that way. Any sensible landowner would know this.
Capitalists benefit from nature's benefit.
Kikarok 3 years ago
kikarok - There is absolutely nothing to support a claim that production leads to an abundance of resources and plenty for the opposite
Actually some animals have gone extinct and near extinction that people relied on because of pursuing a profit motive. The oceans are over fished because of it, the forests and amazon itself is threatened with vanishing from those who live by the profit motive. It is hazardous to eat some fish due to pollution from others profiting
capitalism is a failure
Navywxman 2 years ago
Correction:
Production which has been thought through leads to abundance, my mistake. If any production leads to the permanent destruction of the resources it relies on, the person behind it is an idiot. He won't be fulfilling his "profit motive" for long at that rate.
Also, you assume we live under capitalism, which we don't, and that capitalism means a businessman is allowed to harm anyone in his way, which it doesn't.
Learn what capitalism is before attacking it.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Kikarok - That is one of the points, many are destroying the resources and are idiots. But they are motivated by the profit motive, get as much as they can now and if the resource is gone move onto another. That is one of the biggest problems with the profit motive/capitalism.
No I dont assume we live under capitalism, we do. It isn't the imaginary libertarian version but it is capitalism nonetheless or corporatism to be more specific which is capitalism too.
Uhhh I already know what it is
Navywxman 2 years ago
If you say this is capitalism, you automatically don't know what capitalism is. Capitalism is an ideal. It is not practiced in the world today. What we live under is a perverted form of the term, tainted by statism.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Kikarok - I automatically don't know? Spare me the grade school silliness ok.
Of course it is capitalism but in case you missed it I said its not the imaginary Libertarian version and that it could be called corporatism which hate to break it to you, is a version of capitalism. Its not the fictional pure unfettered kind that Libertarians always hype but it is nonetheless.
Plus why its "tainted" is because of capital not in spite of it. Wealth does it because...yes, the profit motive.
Navywxman 2 years ago
I've taken to actually calling things by what they are. When I say "capitalism," I am referring to capitalism, not some perversion thereof. When I do refer to a perverse, hideous form, I will say so. This is why I do not refer to our system as "capitalism," because it's not.
And no, it is tainted because too much power has been given to the government, not because of your "profit motive" bullshit. The government is stepping in where it doesn't belong.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Kikarok - Well what you call a perversion is laregely what capitalism has been for an extremely long time throughout the world. It has been correctly called capitalism for centuries and what you refer to as capitalism doesn't exist, nor ever could or ever will
Yes Its all about profit motive, those with wealth seek to concentrate and control and that is where Gov. comes in as Gov. is largely bought by economic interests. The corrupt financing of elections and who benefits is testement to that
Navywxman 2 years ago
Yes, it has been called capitalism, but not correctly. I use political terms according to their definitions, even though most of the world, including you, apparently, doesn't.
I agree that the current system is shit, but it's not capita... ugh... I have better things to do than type words at an obviously closed-minded YouTube douche.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Kikarok - Your not saying anything new. No correctly? As I already said yes its not the pure idealized version repeated by Libertarian type of a non-existant capitalism but it is a form of capitalism nonetheless thats existed for centuries, just not your preferred version, yes we get it.
As per your last part, I'm afraid your looking in the mirror.
Navywxman 2 years ago
You haven't said anything new either; I repeat myself because you refuse to understand the purpose of my retorts.
I don't care what people THINK a term means. I don't want people falsely calling the current system "capitalism" because that unjustly gives capitalism a bad image. Call it by what it actually is: statism.
That is ALL I ask. It's fine if you don't believe in my ideal, just don't misname it.
If you still don't get it, leave me alone. I don't feel like talking to a brick wall.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Capitalism is a fantasy. It is a utopian idealism.
bootme21 2 years ago
Kikarok 2 years ago
I disagree i think it accepts that there will be a class of rulers and and class of the ruled. It doesn't claim to be perfect by any means.
Communism, now that is a fantasy that will never, ever work. Simply because humans are too self absorbed to accept and work with it. Shame really.
JessyIdol017 2 years ago
Kikarok - I dont refuse to understand anything. You've repeated and I've clarified. We get it, you just want the fantasy laissez-faire version of capitalism to be called that but thats not the only form of capitalism. Just saying others aren't doesnt make it so
The system actually is corporatism which is capitalism too
You criticise bootme for resorting to "name calling" yet almost everything you've replied with to me has either an insult or name calling in it
look up 'hypocrite'
Navywxman 2 years ago
No, I've repeated and you've ignored.
Pure laissez-faire capitalism is the ONLY form which actually fits the definition of the term. Therefore, it IS the ONLY form which can correctly be called by it.
Other forms can't be accurately called capitalism, not because I say so, but because they don't fit the definition of the term.
Actually, bootme was being the hypocrite; I was criticizing him for doing exactly what he scolded me for two week ago. Had he not first criticized me, I wouldn't care.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Of course I'm going to ignore and clarify what needs clarification. No, laissez-faire capitalism is not the only form which fits the definition of the term. Just because you don't like something and want it a certain way doesn't change anything.
This nonsense about semantics is getting really ridiculous. laissez-faire is not the only thing that is capitalism, deal with it!
It doesnt change the fact that what you did is hypocritical with insults and name calling, look it up if unsure
Navywxman 2 years ago
You do nothing but ignore what you disagree with.
You refuse to even consider the notion that you could be wrong.
Nothing gets through to you.
You are a waste of time for anyone seeking an intelligent debate.
This discussion is over.
I am done talking to this brick wall.
Goodbye.
Kikarok 2 years ago
Oh is that what I do?
Actually no, but to reciprocate you do nothing but prattle nonsense about what you want the word capitalism to mean despite things like the real world, too busy focused on an imaginary form of capitalism that has never and will ever exist, too busy trying to deny the facts, too busy beating your head on a brick wall of the fantasy of laisserz-faire being worth a damn, and too busy slinging insults and name calling.
A waste of time?...again look in the mirror.
Navywxman 2 years ago
When did I call you a name? I may have criticized something, or called it propaganda...
Do you know what propaganda is?
No way is right for all people. Some people might live well in a laissez-faire society, but what about those that choose not to? Any idea that imposes itself is tyranny. Not all people want to live the same way.
As long as people see themselves as separate from their environment, we are fucked. The End.
bootme21 2 years ago
I was referring to the fact that you simply called capitalism a fantasy, and left it at that. No logic, just labeling. I only used your exact words for effect.
I have already answered that several times. You just don't get it, and at this point, whether or not you get it is none of my concern.
Off topic, but now that you bring it up, I need a healthy environment to thrive. I would benefit to keep it so. Because I am dependent on my environment, I suppose I'm not really separate from it...
Kikarok 2 years ago
The Capitalism that has existed has not done well by the world around it.
The oceans of the world are contaminated with plastic. The life in the ocean is contaminated with plastic. There is a continent of plastic the size of the US, 30 feet deep in the Pacific Ocean.
We can argue about this bullshit all day or realize there are real problems that actually NEED our attention right NOW.
Capitalism isn't going to solve many problems. We need something better than capitalism.
bootme21 2 years ago
I agree. I don't like the so-called "capitalism" which has existed.
Let's start by not littering. And if we can figure out a way to recover and recycle all that plastic down there before it either decomposes or gets eaten by a fish/microbe which has developed the ability to digest it, all the better.
What's better than a utopian ideal? ;3
Kikarok 2 years ago
Like?
JessyIdol017 2 years ago
Any system that uses money will be hierarchical.
With that, the property of those higher on the hierarchy is more valuable than the lives of those below. It is acceptable for those above to increase the amount of property they control—in everyday language, to make money—by destroying or taking the lives of those below. This is called production. If those below damage the property of those above, those above may kill or otherwise destroy the lives of those below. This is called justice.
bootme21 3 years ago
In your reply, you provided nothing but questions.
I am not saying that I know the way to live. My goal is freedom, as well as yours is...
Capitalism is a system of control. Any system that maintains that it is THE way to live is tyrannical to the people who wish not to live that way.
You can say that I don't have to live in a capitalist society, but think about how you can get out of it...
What the united States was in the 1790's MIGHT have been OK, but only if you were a white male.
bootme21 3 years ago
I provided a fucking GOLDMINE of information.
Did you even read my entire comment?
Capitalism dot-fucking-org
More to know about capitalism than I would ever post in a video's text comment.
So no, I did not respond only with questions.
And still, there's not much substance behind anything you're saying. You've yet to say WHY money causes hierarchy. You've only said it does, as if it's a physical property. I'm not convinced.
Kikarok 3 years ago
Capitalism is NOT a system of control; go to the fucking website.
How can you call a system which allows ANYONE to do ANYTHING without infringing on another's rights tyranny? Go to the fucking website.
Capitalism did not cause racism or slavery, etc. It inherited them.
Go to the fucking website.
Kikarok 3 years ago
That website is propaganda. The first thing on the "Tour" is:
Reality is Absolute
Reality is that which exists. It is absolute.
It is the standard of the true, the false, and the arbitrary.
Things are what they are, independent of our or anyone else's feelings, ideas, wishes, desires, and emotions.
Or, in the immortal words of Aristotle: A is A. To be, is to be something: finite, limited, and non-contradictory.
bootme21 3 years ago
Do you not understand that capitalism is just a myth? There is no capitalism by its own definition.
That system does not exist. What are you defending?
Even slaves defend the master and the system that enslaves them because they have been taught that that is the only way for things to be. The idea of capitalism is a utopian fantasy.
The system in which we live, called capitalism, is a twist on the traditional institution of slavery.
I once believed the propaganda of capitalism. It's a lie
bootme21 3 years ago
And now back to my original comment:
You are an idiot.
Why?
THE SYSTEM UNDER WHICH WE LIVE IS NOT FUCKING CAPITALISM
If you actually browsed that website, rather than just looking at the first part of the fucking TOUR and dismissing the entire thing as propaganda like a closed-minded moron, you'd know that.
YOU'VE BASED EVERYTHING YOU SAY ON THAT FALSE, COMPLETELY STUPID ASSUMPTION
Pure Capitalism has not existed in the USA. The closest we've ever gotten was in the late 1800's and early 1900's.
Kikarok 3 years ago
Look, you need to stop the name-calling bullshit. I know what Capitalism is. I know that it is based on the "Philosophy of Liberty."
I KNOW that stuff. How can you not understand that? I campaigned for Ron Paul BECAUSE I knew all that.
Capitalism might work for some people, but not everyone wants to live under capitalism.
You can say that this system isn't capitalism, and it's not, it is mercantilism, but almost EVERYONE thinks it is capitalism.
Capitalism is a utopian fantasy.
bootme21 3 years ago
According to everything you've said, you don't know.
You constantly misdefine capitalism. You're closer with "based on-"
Capitalism IS freedom.
If someone doesn't want to be free to do anything other than infringe on another's freedom, there is something wrong with them. They must WANT to be a slave or a slaver.
It doesn't fucking matter what people THINK a term means. By lumping the current system in with capitalism, you encourage ignorance.
Being ideal is not the same as being impossible.
Kikarok 3 years ago
So, what about the people that have no choice but to live in a capitalist society and wish to live in another way?
Capitalism is not the only way for people live freely, actually capitalism cannot exist. People don't act in a way that will allow capitalism to work. In order for capitalism to work, people would have to be knowledgeable about the places they spend their money. There are people in the US who think Wal*Mart still sells all American goods.
Capitalism is a good idea, but no more.
bootme21 3 years ago
If a community wants to be socialist, for example, they can, provided they don't infringe on anyone's freedom. "Socialist" can be replaced with any other system.
If people are too lazy to get off their asses to find out if their purchase is a good one, too bad for them. If they blindly believe an advertisement, too bad for them. Freedom to succeed comes with the freedom to fail.
If you don't think capitalism works, don't call it a good idea. Good ideas work. That's why they're good ideas.
Kikarok 3 years ago
Freedom can't exist under Capitalism. We're all wage slaves excepting the slavers.
Syoles 2 years ago
"You can say that I don't have to live in a capitalist society, but think about how you can get out of it..."
People do it all the time,..they go on welfare.
Capitalism has nothing to do with control. Does anyone make you work for them? The worker is on the same equal ground as the company they work for. If there are more jobs than workers, the worker has the upper hand and vice versa; just like anything you buy or sell that is the nature of the free market.
Capitalism is freedom.
jjenson2006 3 years ago
Look at this fucking jerk off spewing his ignorance. This is the problem with Americans, they have no grasp of history, not even their own. If it wasn't for capitalism; if it wasn't for Menger, Mises, Hayek, we would all be serfs working for some lunatic with an Hereditary title. Our freedoms are not being stripped from us by Capitalism, but by drooling oligarchs disguised as "Patriots."
Questfortruth86 3 years ago
Capitalism equals compettion therefore if you aint comppetive get the fuck out of america , just like all those pussies arguing over illegal immirgration, competion is the key. if you dont like it move to a socialist or better yet comunist country
17opp7 3 years ago
Did you even watch or listen?
bootme21 3 years ago
Yeah i did both, but your title was a bit misleading
17opp7 3 years ago
capitalists are like Ferengi from Star Trek just without big ears. greedy and selfish sons of the bitches thinking only about the profit.
Capitalism must be destroyed !!!
zoltan656 3 years ago
A person can work all he wants but he's not really free under capitalism. He doesnt decide how to live, his income, circumstances do. In that sense, an ownership class determines that person's way of life, a class that is unaccountable and whom no one voted for in the first place. If slavery means profiting off the labor of others, then capitalism IS a form of slavery. A working class builds the products and the owner profits from a real, physical labor he did not contribute to in the least.
cobrafifty818 3 years ago
What I am trying to say is no matter what you will have to work for others and they will have to work for you. Capitalism is a way to regulate that so you don't end up doing more work than you receive from society. Socialism believes everyone deserves the same from society no matter how much they put in (in simplest terms ok). What you seem to be saying is that no matter when you work for someone else (or that person has command over you) you are their slave.True in a way but that is life. Sorry
demexii1 3 years ago
Without any suggestions all your talk is pointless. Man must work to survive and no matter what that work is, in your eyes, slavery. So if I must be a slave I prefer capitalism where I can choose where I will work, what I will buy, and how I will live my life.
demexii1 3 years ago
I didn't say don't work for anyone, or yourself. I said that capitalism is a form of slavery.
Your point is moot, you can choose some things, but overall, the decisions of how you are going to live have been decided. If you try to live a way that this system does not accept, they will keep you from living that way.
bootme21 3 years ago
There is no solution because someone somewhere will have to work so you can eat, be clothed, and drink water. Under your logic that person would be a slave (no matter if you pay them under capitalism or if they do it for free under socialism).
The things I am not able to do are mainly because society has felt that they are harmful, ie I can't kill someone. I don't see many things that I would be able to do in your non-slavery utopia that I can't do in capitalism.
demexii1 3 years ago
why dont you move to russia where the life expectancy is substantially lower than ours? capitalism drives us to become better because of competition; to advance in this world, you must compete with all the others and therefore better yourself. communism, socialism, ect. are doomed to fail because if you cannot advance in the workforce, then why bother improving yourself? if you're paycheck has a ceiling because the gov't mandates it, then whats the point of working harder?
goldeneye061493 3 years ago
So, I don't like capitalism, I must be a commie, right?
How about looking at how capitalism, communism, and socialism are all based on the same mythological ideas. Understand that if you believe the myth, you can't see it as a myth...
These economic systems are based on the idea that the earth belongs to man. They are based on the idea that everything that exists is subject to being human property. They are based on the idea that there is one right way for all people to live.
bootme21 3 years ago
Stop clinging to what your culture tells you is the only way. There is no "one right way" for all people to live. And any idea that maintains that it's the only way is definitely going to be tyrannical to those upon whom it is imposed.
bootme21 3 years ago
Why not just get a decent job and try to make something of yourself??? BTW you just answered all your own questions! YOU ARE JUST DENYING THE TRUTH AND YOU KNOW IT. THINK. Earth does belong to man, and in case you haven't noticed this is proven. Who is highest on the food chain? Thats right, humans. God has given you a mind, use it.
Gabe7g 3 years ago 2
So, I use reason, and you come back with mumbo jumbo. Can't argue with that....
If God gave you Earth, treat it with respect.
bootme21 3 years ago
If your a capitalist when your 20 you don't have a heart, if your not a capitalist by 40 you don't have a brain. What kind of economic system would you use to replace Capitalism? The working class has the choice and the opportunity to advance based on their own effort, intelligence and tenacity. What system doesn't have a working class and a ruling class?You're not the 1st person to think like this, everyone does, then we use logic and think it through. You can't condemn, without solutions
jjrglobal 3 years ago
Absolutely, you can condemn without solutions. If the problem is not recognized, no one can offer a solution.
I think the idea of economy is a problem. Production is necessary in an economy. But, except for very few things, production is unnecessary for humans. We spend our lives producing things that lead to our death as a species.
bootme21 3 years ago
Do you know what it was like for people before a civilized society was formed? And no you can't condemn it and not have any better solutions. Capitalism is the best we have right now, but I'm open to any new suggestions. Until you have a well thought out suggestion, quit bitchin.
jjrglobal 3 years ago
I do know what it was like for people before civilization. The reason I don't have a solution is because there is no way that is perfect. There are so many ways to live. No way is going to fit to all people. If you think you can find the way for all people to live, it will be tyrannical.
bootme21 3 years ago
What you need to understand is that a true free market , free from government intervention is part of nature. Adam Smith was right, there is an invisible hand that works for all parties involved. Socialist think that I pay my employees and run a fair and ethical biz because of government mandates. The truth is I pay my employees more because I want the best employees, I run my biz the way I do so customers will return again and again. Gov should only protect rights.
jjrglobal 3 years ago
Well said dude, capitalism was, is, and can only be a failure that serves a few at the expence of the many in an unsustainable way that is currently threatening the very fabric of life itself.
I ascribe to no "ism" or ideology, only an understanding that capitalism and other top-down systems of control do not work and considering the state of things, human suffering, dwindling resources, the environment in decay, things need to change desperately or I doubt people will make it
Navywxman 3 years ago
well said! capitalism did not come about by legitimate means. if not for slavery, imperialism, colonialism, the displacement of native lands under the banner of white supremacy, etc. there would never have been the incredilbe amassment of wealth experienced by the usa and europe. the ends do not justify the means. therefore, capitalism is always componential to these concomitant negative "isms." the word "wealth" itself implies inequity and maldistribution of valued resources.
salahudeen1962 3 years ago
society has always been the illusion, despite the ideals upon which it is founded. there will always be a ruling class. there will always be a ruled class. hierarchy is inevitable as a body organizes, and it comes about as a result of the social individual. all individuals have competing interests, so the rulers and the ruled will arise under any circumstances with the creation of a group, regardless of size. one healthy individual is capable of self-sufficiency, even today.
behindtheparadigm 3 years ago
people should form co-ops or cooperative corporations. Workers own and control the business democratically. People are put first before capital.
sh0rt4 3 years ago
Finally someone who believes that Capitialism is Slavery! There needs to be more people who know this!
Anarchofolkpunk9 3 years ago
I think there are many people who know this without realizing.
Timverbaz 3 years ago
Comment removed
Canadiansnowy 3 years ago
Hey Bootme21, capitalism is a not a "system". It'