I have a love hate relationship with being flat rate.I work for a Ford dealer and its getting more red tape from warranty thay makes it harder to get paid.It won't be long will need prior approval on everything we do and every part we replace.It's one of the reasons I'm losing my love for the trade.I feel burned out and wish I could get my passion back.
I also now of a flat rate shop that rewards for efficent techs. If they make there 40hrs, there wage increases by $2 and after 50hrs it goes up $5. Its another incentive to work more efficient.
I have worked flat rate for 16yrs and when the dealership ownership changed hands, well we went to hourly wage and I still had this urge to produce as much hours in one day as I can. Maybe its because i am use to flat rate. But at the end of the year at tax time, I made the same amount of money,give or take alittle. getting a steady pay chg every two weeks has been easier to manage bills, ect
HEY ETCG LOVE UR VIDEOS THERE ALL A GREAT HELP WHEN I NEED IT ,.. BUT UM I WAS WONDERING IF U CAN ANSWER A QUESTION I HAVE ABOUT FLAT RATE I MIGHT WORK FOR FIRESTONE TOMORROW BUT I STILL DONT GET THE FLAT RATE SYSTEM THEY HAVE, THEY TOLD ME IM GONA BE WORKING 12 DOLLARS AN HOUR BUT IDK HOW IF IM ON FLAT RATE IDK IF THERE SOME TYPE OF HOURLY PAY WITH FLAT RATE COMBINED IF THERE IS THAT WOULD BE AWESOME BUT IF NOT THEN IS FLAT RATE ALL THE SAME BESIDES THE BUDDIE SYSTEM ? I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW
@MrGotVic That pretty much means that you'll be getting paid $12 an hour for every hour you bill, you won't get a set paycheck but rather you'll get paid $12 an hour for the hours you bill on the vehicles you work on and at the end of the pay period you'll get paid for the total hours you billed NOT the hours you were at work, this could be more or less depending on the work you did.
I just got promoted to a flat rate tech from being on express lube at my toyota dealer i work at. I must say it is a complete 180, its a reality check because when there is a slow day and your just sitting around, holy shit im not getting paid right now! Becoming a Flat rate Tech has made me want to work harder, willing to learn new things, and dive into any job. Stay focused when your working as a flat rate, be on time, stay late whatever. Hard work will pay off and be efficient. - Dave
@StratusCams That is a way to approach it but there may come a point where you start to ask yourself if you're really getting out what you're putting in, flat rate has a way of bringing out the worst in some people, it may not be you that it effects in a negative way but if those around you are effected they will end up effecting you in the long run. Good luck and stay positive.
at my shop one dude bitches out loud when he has to grab a bottle of water and throw it in the cup holder of the customers car. And he's been flat rate for just a month ..
thank you very much for you clarification,well done ,but,, my opinion FR is sucks because it resulting 2 major problems''first, bad quality work''short cut'' and second'' feed the hate between techs& service writer as well..wich is create non healthy environment at work...
thank you very much for you clarification,well done ,but,, my opinion FR is suck because it resulting 2 major problems''first, bad quality work''short cut'' and second'' feed the hate between techs& service writer as well..wich is create non healthy environment at work...
@gigiwawa1 But that with incentives it can work well. Incentives have a tendency to keep things clean between techs and between techs/service writers and helps increase motivation to do good work. Just out of curiosity what do you think would be a better method of pay?
We should change the name to flat rape because its what can happen to us techs (the only legal rape lol), But then again it can be good too. Just glad that I dont have to deal with it now. Had one guy that was talking about it with us say that the majority of the people complaining about it are the ones not making the time. I had to disagree because I know I can make it, I've made a good living doing it. But I complain becuase of the bad sides of it...
Bottom line, Flat rat will make you or break you. The draw backs (depending upon where you work) 1) causes some to do poor quality work 2) back stabing between techs fighting for the hours.etc....ups: can bill 80hrs and work 40 a week. Good video. Good points. Glad I dont work flat any more because I own and operate my own business.
flat rate is good if you have work that you can make money on. but being at a dealership warranty flat rate sucks. 90% of warranty pays half of what the labour time guide calls for. one thing i really hate is only making 3 or 4 hours in an 8 hour work day, and i worked my guts out all day and i don't get paid for it. i take great pride in my work and try to do everything to the best of my ability. getting paid a half hour for a job that takes 3 hours is crap and being told thats the way it is.
@kenman1717 THAT was one of the motivating factors for me getting out of the dealership, the politics didn't help much either. I hope things get better for you and better opportunities come your way. Thanks for the comment.
Man i wish i had u as a mechanic, i may not know but judging on how you know what you know, your very knowledgeable, great job on what you do, and im also intrigued with auto mechanics i love my car, its not much its a 99 ford taurus dohc 24 valve jajaja, but down in south texas its very hard to find a good mechanic we need more people like you eric, god bless and take care
@Rafaelipod Thank you very much for that. To be honest it's hard to find a good mechanic period these days but they are out there and usually quite busy. Try asking around, word of mouth is the best resource for finding a good mechanic in my opinion and in the days of social networking there's no shortage of opinions. Good luck.
Considering people lives are in the Mechanics hands id hope most of them care, i saw a "Mechanic" rattle off some wheel bolts and just let the wheel drop from the car, bouncing about in the workshop and pretty much ruined the guys wheel cover, he then rattle gunned the bolts back on in a clock wise motion... and drop the car to the ground without torquing them... thats just wrong in my eyes.
@offspringy I've worked with those types myself and it really burns my biscuits to see that kind of thing. I'm doing my best to make that uncool by trying to bring the new people coming in the right way, the way that means that you actually care about what you do and the work that you put out. Thanks for the comment.
Great Video! thanks!, My opinion I'm not sure how some of these places get away with this. Sure if the place you work at gets busy then all is good,but if not. well you make a guarantee of 30 hours, when you might of worked 40hours plus. my friend gets paid flat rate, he works over 40 every week. but never breaks his 40 on the flat rate. he puts away tires and other stuff which is not included. in the end he makes less then minimum wage. how can they do this, if the jobs are not there?
up here in canada mos of us are paid by the hour...in commercial tranport industry anyways...i would like to try a flat rate system,but only as a bonus.i would want a minimum hourly rate
Been a flate rate tech for many many years. My vid "ballad of the flate rate tech" sort of says it all. I completely agree that there are too many people from the managers, to advisors, warranty clerks, and crappy techs who ruin what a great thing flat rate could be. Now Mitchell is starting to use the warranty time to base their retail times. The end of days is near.
I was on the individual flat rate system. The service mangler was an alcoholic as was the owner. They would give me jobs such as check the brakes. I would check them and price the parts. Then they would give the job to another tech (who never was sober) He would inherently screw something up, and when they brought it back they made me fix it for free. And this guy wouldn't buy tools, just borrow. It got so bad I just had to leave because I couldn't make any money there.
I used to be flat rate and I literally had to fight for jobs. I had to deal with greedy techs grabbing 4 or 5 jobs at a time while others just sat waiting for something to come in. So the result of that was angry customers waiting hours for their vehicles to get fixed because of some greedy asshole hogging up all the work. So in the end we all lose because angry customers usually don't come back so nobody makes any money.
@castigo617 Your story is more common than anything unfortunately, the system works best when people show personal responsibility which in my experience doesn't happen that often. Thanks for your input and for your comment.
Flat Rate The carrot. I found this video on what motivates us. (The surprising truth about what motivates us. by rsa) I recommend you watch this anyone wondering about the flat rate system.
@JohnxWaynexGacy That does suck, politics can be the worst part of the job in my opinion, with cars if they are broke you fix them, with politics things get a little trickier.
@Thewiredmechanic That might not be a bad idea but I wonder if there is enough time with all the other stuff that needs to be learned. Thanks for the comment.
Here in Australia, mechanics are mostly payed by wage (hourly rate x hrs worked) rather than billed hours ect and compared to each other (and incentivised) by their efficiency in completing work and comebacks. I feel this system does not always ensure a flow of quality work. In terms of labour times - I think another issue here is the type of cars being worked on. Older cars will have more unforeseen problems / issues . Perhaps much comes down to good estimation + quality employees?
@bitpri05 Older cars are a very good point and I agree that comes down to the estimating process and involving the customer in the repair so that they are made aware of the situation BEFORE work begins, if I've learned anything it's that customers HATE to be called after they have already committed to a price and then you have to tell them they need to spend more. Thanks very much for your 'international' input, it really ads perspective thank you.
Fortunately, my shop demands integrity, and a lack of it will cost you your job. I have always found that being honest with the customer and producing quality work makes for returning customers that develop trust in there tech. I pride myself in being that type of tech.
@JoeFantauzzo568 It's always great to hear from techs that take pride in their work. Let me just say that I appreciate you and your work very much, keep up the good work.
Eric I work for a Honda dealer. I am on the individual flat rate system. I have had weeks of 80+ and 90+ hrs, and I have had 25 hr weeks. It all averages out. A good tech can make money by keeping his eyes open. A .3 LOF can become 1.3 if you see a bad serp belt.
@JoeFantauzzo568 I worked flat rate as well in several dealerships - I averaged about 90 hours a week doing the WHOLE repair, every time. I did LOTS of auto trans work - getting paid 28 hours for an eight hour day was a nice bonus ....... It'd be hard to do that in an "any garage" where every freekin' job is different every time ......
@nordrecordsuk You really are doing the same thing as flat rate is just a way of describing labor cost on an estimate, it's the technician that decides how they manage that time given.
What's going on, Eric? I like this video, but I have a concern. I just did a Job Shadow at a local shop, and one of the guys I was watching told me he did an engine R&R that bills the customer for 8.8 hours and he did it in 5.2 hours. I watched him do an aftermarket stereo system rewiring job that paid an hour for 2 minutes of work. I think a difference that big is kind of screwing the customer. Do you find a point where you feel that the flat-rate billing is bad/wrong?
@JTheGuitarPlayer That really is part of the 'game'. The truth is it doesn't always work that way and he was probably bragging a bit. There are some days where you can beat book time HONESTLY and not cut corners and there are days when you get your butt handed to you because you can't find a particular problem that takes all day where you only get paid the hour check out time. I think it comes down to the individual tech and the quality of work that they put out.
@ETCG1 I just think that sometimes, the Tech does the job right the first time, and the customer still gets screwed. I don't want to work on a Team System for my first job. That would be bad.
@ETCG1 from what ive seen ...especially with warrenty jobs,the times that they give you are total crap.They time some guy in a factory who has done the job 600 times and is dealing with brand new nuts n bolts 100% clean.most of the time its really hard to meet never mind beat!!I think i will stick with my hourly rate,at least i know what i will be takin home no matter how shitty my day went.
@666apaulo In my tenure as a technician I've seen labor times decrease a great deal but it seems that just about every profession is suffering from that these days. I've also seen a lot more warranty work and a lot less service work that also contribute to a smaller pay check. Thanks very much for your comment.
@JTheGuitarPlayer Once you work flat rate long enough, you are gonna learn that these sorts of things will make up for all the crap you take as a dealer tech. You are providing a service and the customer isnt always just paying for what you do. but what you know. It may have taken that A tech 2 minutes to do the job, but thats because he knew what he was doing. When you dont know what you are doing, you go to someone that does. That costs money.
Respond to this video... I'd like to add that as a dealership tech, I'd probably cry if I added up all the hours I've spent on cars versus the money I got back via warranty time. Anybody that can ever view the flat rate system as raping the customer has never worked flat rate, or worked it long enough. Go rot on a car for 3 hrs and get paid .4 and then see how ya feel lol
Respond to this video... Eric care to make a video about customers that want you to reengineer their car to their own specifications, because they insist the car isnt "right" nevermind that it works fully within manufacturers specification?
Here all that happens is When a tech is getting close to the 'book time' they just don't finish the job. They don't change Cabin filters or brake fluid etc. Just as long as they finish within the book time.
I think this system is good for vehicles less than about 5 years old. The older it gets the more problems will occur during repair. For example while replacing front shocks a few years ago I found the strut tower was starting to rust so suddenly I had an hour of rust killing to do. On the flat rate the strut would just go back over the rust. I do not know what the best system for older cars is?
@andrewthompsonuk1 That's an interesting point you make and I agree that the older something gets the more challenges it can present during a given repair. My approach has always been to involve the customer in the repair, meaning a good show and tell and explanation of what is involved that way they are on the same page and have less 'surprises' to deal with during the course of the repair. Great comment.
some big problems I had with flat rate was eating the managers mistakes. in bodywork you need a good manager who is writing the estimates witout missing items. another is if the shop writes a new door goes on the car then the shop asks you to repair it and keeps the profit.
@AdirondackNY I don't think I've seen an accurate estimate yet for body shop work especially when it comes to internal damage to a vehicle that can't always be seen. Body shops have a completely different set of problems in my opinion that fall under a different video. Thanks for the comment.
Damn good video. I had worked at a couple of individual cut throat flat rate shops, one was a large dealership and the other was an independent. Both were very brutal. Like you had stated, the work from most of the "techs" sucked, multiple combacks etc. What I had experienced was the more you kissed a@@ the better the work you recieved. I couldn't tolerate that any longer. I was lucky to move on to a new place (like you are :) ) that pays a salery and the conditions are for the most part better.
4:39 lol Personally individual Flat rate/Commission or bust! Most bike tech are paid hourly/teamwork with no incentive, thus the 23% turnover rate nationally. I was fortunate to get a piece of the pie due to my boss's meager capital lol
But I do have to ask, in your time did you have the right to refuse service or did you accept whatever the cat dragged in?
If you were forced to work on any derelict POS perhaps the next video should elaborate on that where you ought to choose a better shop.
@Begbucks No I was never able to refuse work, I tried but was not able to do so. It's not something that I do often but I prefer to talk directly to the customer to find out what their expectations are before beginning work that way all the cards are on the table.
When I was growing up in Louisville KY in the late 60s I was 10 and my dad worked 2 jobs full time at a foundry where he was a mold maker he also worked the second job where he worked for a taxi cab company repairing cabs he did this in the evening and took me there a lot to teach me how to work on cars he was paid a flat hourly rate of 4.50 hr where he made 13.90 at the foundry he said flat rate was unfair way back then and would not work for someone who runs it that way .
@ncrdisabled It's not for everyone that's for sure. There are those that can make it work and those that just don't like it. As for fair I really think that depends on the individual. Thanks for your comment.
@ETCG1 u r 100% right the labor rate is cheaper for us, I get paid by hour so I take a bit more time on the things I work on cause there is really no hurry to get the job done. That's why am afraid to get paid on a flat rate, I have thought about going to a new car dealership but I don't know if I'll be able to turn a lot of hours..
my dad always got screwed that way...he always used to work for $7 and hours and get the job done in 3hours compared to the 7hours that the other mechanics cost $20 an hour...he regrets it and wished he would of never done that and would be like the other mechanic
As much as flate rate can suck sometimes, i think its the main thing that has kept me in this profession. Going back to gettin paid by the hour is just boring and i suffer from withdrawal. I like stayin busy, but i really like going to a job where if theres no cars to work on I can chill in the a/c or play card games with other techs or watch etcg1 videos on youtube. Then downside is most places want you to clock around 50 hours and usually from 8-6 which really takes away from your social life.
@srv3fender Yea it's not always a bed of roses but you do have a certain freedom with the flat rate system that you don't get with salary. Thanks for your input and for watching ETCG videos on your break!
I'm fairly surprised noone has asked what a 'tenth' is. It's obvious math, but when I was at my first job in a shop, I had no idea what it was. A tenth of an hour is 6 minutes (1 hour divided by ten=6 minutes) So, if an oil change pays three tenths, or .3 hours, it's 18 minutes. Try pulling a car in off the lot, racking it up, completely draining the oil (completely as should be done!) and finishing the job and rolling it out in 18 minutes. It just doesn't add up. Just for very new guys..
@beefystik I get paid $5 at my garage for doing oil changes. I usually take about 30 minutes from pulling it in to the customer leaving. I don't make money on an oil change, but do it as a service for my customers who are usually repeat customers.
likes flat rate system. It good if you can get 10+ hr a day. I also like the team system if everybody work. Some dealership here in cali will pay supplement, for some reason your team can't get 80 hr.
@IIGrayfoxII Yes, those and electrical problems can really wreck your day but the key is to document it well and you MIGHT get paid. Thanks for the comment.
Flat rate is feast or famine depending on your skills. Jobs still need to walk in the door and people have to be willing to pay for the work in order for a tech to make money. Techs are cash cows for the dealership or shop owner. No work in the shop= no money made. It's not the best job security pay plan. Don't forget about, backflagging and warranty time.
Being a mobile electronics installer in the company I'm in, we have a variation of the flat rate system, except we don't see any pay from it as we're hourly. They used to give a portion to the autotechs, but the quality aspect changed that. Reason I don't like it, just like you said no 2 cars are the same. Say a head unit install is $50, should take .75hr, some vehicles, say an early 90's F150, done in 10min, and a Taurus, 1.5hr due to bypassing the tuner in the trunk. It is what it is I guess.
@hellraiser319 Yes it is unfortunate that it isn't always fair or even accurate but it is what we signed on for so we get up, go to work, and do the best we can. Thanks very much for your comment.
Hope you don't take this the wrong way,but I do like this channel more than the repair channel because nobodIy out there says it like you do. I would like to hear the other side and your opinion on being self employed ,pros and cons. Fantastic vid
@Bonfield2002 As long as your watching I'm doing my job. Seriously I do appreciate your comment, I really started this channel to answer some of the questions that I had been getting about this stuff I actually didn't think it would get this popular but I'm glad it did. Thanks for watching and for your comment.
Eric, I enjoy watching you, and drinking a beer, as long as you don't discuss politics. Iam paid hourly, which has it's downsides too. It's a steady paycheck, but it also doesnt go up because you had a productive week, which sucks. And also, if Joe Blow doesnt produce, you'll end up getting the work that he's not doing, just because your such a productive fellow. Life IS beautiful, most of the time.
@int53185 I'm not into getting political so don't worry about that. Even in the flat rate system you can get screwed by the lazy as much as you can by the money hungry, I suppose it's the same wherever you go. Thanks very much for the comment and have one for me.
@ShawnCFarm That can work very well as I've worked in shops like that and I still got paid. It really depends on what your used to, some techs start out flat rate and can't work any other way. Thanks for the comment.
bhstone1 said that a 1.5 hr job took 8 hrs because a rusty bolt snapped. Should the mechanic not get paid for that extra time if it wasn't his fault? 8 hrs to fix a broken bolt is way too much time, but maybe he should've been paid something extra.
@CoolasIce2 Yeah that just completely sucked. I had to drill through the entire bolt and then back it out. It was terrible, but only got paid what we quoted the guy. For now on I am telling my customers that it's only an estimate and not locking them into any price before I "get in there".
@CoolasIce2 In a situation like that you need to get the customer involved and find out the cause of the problem and sort it out with them with a fair estimate before proceeding with the work. Sometimes you can get paid more in a situation like that but you have to handle it properly or you just have to eat it.
thanks very much for this channel. it's full of great stuff - i've been studying for a while and just got accepted to an automotive service & repair course in the fall. these are awesome for someone that is planning to become a tech! keep this stuff coming please!
@brakedd That is pretty much why I started making them as I was getting a lot of questions about this stuff so I decided to start this channel as it really doesn't fit into the ETCG frame of repair video. Thanks for your comment and good luck in school.
Personally I think that system hoes hand in hand with corner cutting. Here in the UK we don't have a system like that thankfully although some dealers have a bonus where you get bonus money fir getting tons done under book time. I'm salaried it can take me all day to do an electrical fault or I can do 5 services I get paid the same hourly rate. If I work for 8 hours in a day I get paid for 8 hours. If I ho over 8 hours n do over time I get paid time n a half so if my hourly rate is £10 after 8
@BrettyUK Some shops are set up that way in the US but most are flat rate or commission based, I suppose we like to inspire more work through greed. Thanks for your international insight.
@KillerZero259 You can't always put a particular repair into a mold and expect it to go the same every time. Consider the rust belt where just removing fasteners can take a lot longer because of rust and things breaking, flat rate may be a start but it doesn't cover EVERY situation.
I know the system well and I know the points you hit. I worked at a Hyundai dealership that was Individual Flag time. The best way i found to work it was to begin concentrating on quality, and with time, the speed will pick up and quality will stay the same. I voulenteered for all the crappy electrical and intermittent drivability problems i could get on. This allowed me to refine my test methods and build the reputation that I could ask for more diag time in hours when it took more time.
@Collins328 I did the exact same thing and ended up doing quality work and getting paid pretty well, it can be done you just have to give yourself the time to do the work right and not focus on the flag time. I really appreciate your comment and keep up the good work, we need more like you.
Hang on, so I'm not sure I understand this completely. If a technician spends 2 hours on an oil change he gets paid for the two hours or only the 3/10 time that was estimated? And if they get paid for every hour they work on a car, wouldn't technicians just milk the clock? Not sure how this "flag" time works exactly, but it definitely sounds interesting. It seems there's gotta be a better and more creative way.
@blinkskaterkc If an oil change pays 0.3 hrs, and it takes you 2 hours to do it, you still only get paid 0.3 hrs for that oil change. Like he said, every job has a set time and you get paid that time no matter how long it ACTUALLY takes you.
@Collins328 Okay, that's what I was assuming when I heard Eric say that. But what confused me is why they fill out a "flag" and write down the amount of time it took the technician? Why does it matter how long it took the technician? Just trying to understand.
@blinkskaterkc In a situation like that you need to inform the customer of the situation and proceed accordingly, are you going to have to replace the oil pan? Who was at fault? These questions would need to be answered before you could proceed with something like that. Some techs do milk the clock and some cut corners, is this a product of the flat rate system or just a lack of personal responsibility? I suppose this video poses that question. Thanks for the comment.
@wangbungal I have and I don't know anyone that hasn't at one time or another, some jobs just aren't worth doing because some cars are just too far gone to make the investment into.
Eric, Hope I don't get you in trouble. How much would you charge in labor for changing a distributor on a 1991 Accord DX? Can skip timing. How did you figure the price?
Eric, I was doing a lower ball joint a few months ago. Should have taken maybe 1.5 hours. The bolt holding in the ball join snapped and we spent 8 HOURS drilling it out. Only got paid for the 1.5. Not my fault that the bolt head snapped. It was 13 years old and rusted as all hell. Sometimes the system works against you.
@bhstone1 In those situations you have to leave the door open for charging more and let the customer know up front if you think a job might go badly like that, I know this is not always possible but in the end it's really a balancing act but if estimated properly you can get paid for that time. Thanks for your comment.
@ETCG1 True, but if I go back to someone and tell them it's going to be $300 more than I originally quoted they are going to go nuts. I just swallowed hard and in the future an being much more careful about estimates.
I work at a used car lot and we don't have all the tools here so we have to use a big name shop to do the work. They get paid flat rate and the jobs that they do is not the best, we had a oil pan gasket that we send to them and the tech didn't care to wipe or clean the oil of the sub frame.. But it all goes back to the flat rate cause to clean the frame would have taken him 20 more mins that don't pay.. Its sad but that's whats happens.
@3o5richierich Speaking from a different perspective in my experience used car dealers don't have a lot of room to remain profitable so they cut corners anywhere they can so perhaps they have a special labor rate that is less than what a customer would pay and therefore not as much care is placed on the work for that car lot, it is true that time is money.
I would like to see you explain the Ins and Outs of estimates. How much of the estimate is really cost vs profit? Most people go to a shop and get estimates for damage/repair/maintenance, but most people don't know what things really cost. Give us examples of inflated estimates and competitive estimates from dealer vs independent shops.
Where I worked, we had teams but it was individual flat rate. The "team leader" distributed the work to the other team mates. My first mentor, the team leader, would always skim the gravy off the top for himself and the other guys got screwed into mostly warranty work. My second mentor did things very fairly and took the warranty work more often than not. Then again, as his apprentice, he got paid for every hour I flagged. He rarely flagged less than 20 hours a day. I got a regular salary
@fastveedub It can work if you have the right people doing the right thing but unfortunately that is the exception rather than the rule in my experience.
@americantractors That's a common problem i always used to run in to, but alot of mechanics understand some jobs take more than one person to do and they help each other out. On the other hand there are technicians that think since they will not get paid for helping you, they won't help.
@americantractors Hopefully you don't work with a-holes and they are willing to help even thought they 'aren't getting paid'. Most shops work this way as it can be a 2 way street if everyone sees it that way.
Great video Eric! How do you as an independent mechanic bill for jobs? Do you base it off the book's time or just from your own experience? Keep up the good work!
@TheTexasCoder Yep I do base off of the book time, perhaps that would be a good topic for the next video since getting paid seems to be a hot topic. Thanks for the comment.
That's hard-earned money and a system that has become common in many other businesses.
I think it is not leading forward & it is not improving the service.
Not every service is like ordering a burger in a fast food restaurant.
Things can take time! Precise, accurate work takes time.
I hate the fact that many people just can't afford quality service anymore, bc they themselves are forced into these kind of systems and paid badly. Don't really see a good future coming, if this stays that way
I have a love hate relationship with being flat rate.I work for a Ford dealer and its getting more red tape from warranty thay makes it harder to get paid.It won't be long will need prior approval on everything we do and every part we replace.It's one of the reasons I'm losing my love for the trade.I feel burned out and wish I could get my passion back.
warfareornothing 1 week ago
I also now of a flat rate shop that rewards for efficent techs. If they make there 40hrs, there wage increases by $2 and after 50hrs it goes up $5. Its another incentive to work more efficient.
camronjeffron 1 week ago
I have worked flat rate for 16yrs and when the dealership ownership changed hands, well we went to hourly wage and I still had this urge to produce as much hours in one day as I can. Maybe its because i am use to flat rate. But at the end of the year at tax time, I made the same amount of money,give or take alittle. getting a steady pay chg every two weeks has been easier to manage bills, ect
camronjeffron 1 week ago
HEY ETCG LOVE UR VIDEOS THERE ALL A GREAT HELP WHEN I NEED IT ,.. BUT UM I WAS WONDERING IF U CAN ANSWER A QUESTION I HAVE ABOUT FLAT RATE I MIGHT WORK FOR FIRESTONE TOMORROW BUT I STILL DONT GET THE FLAT RATE SYSTEM THEY HAVE, THEY TOLD ME IM GONA BE WORKING 12 DOLLARS AN HOUR BUT IDK HOW IF IM ON FLAT RATE IDK IF THERE SOME TYPE OF HOURLY PAY WITH FLAT RATE COMBINED IF THERE IS THAT WOULD BE AWESOME BUT IF NOT THEN IS FLAT RATE ALL THE SAME BESIDES THE BUDDIE SYSTEM ? I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW
MrGotVic 1 month ago
@MrGotVic That pretty much means that you'll be getting paid $12 an hour for every hour you bill, you won't get a set paycheck but rather you'll get paid $12 an hour for the hours you bill on the vehicles you work on and at the end of the pay period you'll get paid for the total hours you billed NOT the hours you were at work, this could be more or less depending on the work you did.
ETCG1 3 weeks ago
I just got promoted to a flat rate tech from being on express lube at my toyota dealer i work at. I must say it is a complete 180, its a reality check because when there is a slow day and your just sitting around, holy shit im not getting paid right now! Becoming a Flat rate Tech has made me want to work harder, willing to learn new things, and dive into any job. Stay focused when your working as a flat rate, be on time, stay late whatever. Hard work will pay off and be efficient. - Dave
StratusCams 1 month ago
@StratusCams That is a way to approach it but there may come a point where you start to ask yourself if you're really getting out what you're putting in, flat rate has a way of bringing out the worst in some people, it may not be you that it effects in a negative way but if those around you are effected they will end up effecting you in the long run. Good luck and stay positive.
ETCG1 3 weeks ago
If your going to be flat rate the words you will aways here is " Don't worry you'll make it up on the next job"
2stage90 2 months ago
@2stage90 So true.
ETCG1 3 weeks ago
at my shop one dude bitches out loud when he has to grab a bottle of water and throw it in the cup holder of the customers car. And he's been flat rate for just a month ..
shoesalesmanBundy 2 months ago
@shoesalesmanBundy Sounds like he has some personal problems, wonder how long he'll last.
ETCG1 2 months ago
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thank you very much for you clarification,well done ,but,, my opinion FR is sucks because it resulting 2 major problems''first, bad quality work''short cut'' and second'' feed the hate between techs& service writer as well..wich is create non healthy environment at work...
gigiwawa1 2 months ago
thank you very much for you clarification,well done ,but,, my opinion FR is suck because it resulting 2 major problems''first, bad quality work''short cut'' and second'' feed the hate between techs& service writer as well..wich is create non healthy environment at work...
gigiwawa1 2 months ago
@gigiwawa1 As much as I hate to admit it in may cases you're right. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 2 months ago
@gigiwawa1 But that with incentives it can work well. Incentives have a tendency to keep things clean between techs and between techs/service writers and helps increase motivation to do good work. Just out of curiosity what do you think would be a better method of pay?
PIchillin456 2 months ago
We should change the name to flat rape because its what can happen to us techs (the only legal rape lol), But then again it can be good too. Just glad that I dont have to deal with it now. Had one guy that was talking about it with us say that the majority of the people complaining about it are the ones not making the time. I had to disagree because I know I can make it, I've made a good living doing it. But I complain becuase of the bad sides of it...
patrickcn 2 months ago
Bottom line, Flat rat will make you or break you. The draw backs (depending upon where you work) 1) causes some to do poor quality work 2) back stabing between techs fighting for the hours.etc....ups: can bill 80hrs and work 40 a week. Good video. Good points. Glad I dont work flat any more because I own and operate my own business.
patrickcn 3 months ago
@patrickcn I couldn't have summed it up better myself. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 3 months ago
flat rate is good if you have work that you can make money on. but being at a dealership warranty flat rate sucks. 90% of warranty pays half of what the labour time guide calls for. one thing i really hate is only making 3 or 4 hours in an 8 hour work day, and i worked my guts out all day and i don't get paid for it. i take great pride in my work and try to do everything to the best of my ability. getting paid a half hour for a job that takes 3 hours is crap and being told thats the way it is.
kenman1717 3 months ago
@kenman1717 THAT was one of the motivating factors for me getting out of the dealership, the politics didn't help much either. I hope things get better for you and better opportunities come your way. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 3 months ago
@ETCG1 i hope so to. trying to find the right opportunity.
kenman1717 2 months ago
Man i wish i had u as a mechanic, i may not know but judging on how you know what you know, your very knowledgeable, great job on what you do, and im also intrigued with auto mechanics i love my car, its not much its a 99 ford taurus dohc 24 valve jajaja, but down in south texas its very hard to find a good mechanic we need more people like you eric, god bless and take care
Rafaelipod 3 months ago
@Rafaelipod Thank you very much for that. To be honest it's hard to find a good mechanic period these days but they are out there and usually quite busy. Try asking around, word of mouth is the best resource for finding a good mechanic in my opinion and in the days of social networking there's no shortage of opinions. Good luck.
ETCG1 3 months ago
Ethics!
hamza3608 4 months ago
AMEN Brother! We love you too!
srmastertech 4 months ago
@srmastertech Right back at ya.
ETCG1 4 months ago
Considering people lives are in the Mechanics hands id hope most of them care, i saw a "Mechanic" rattle off some wheel bolts and just let the wheel drop from the car, bouncing about in the workshop and pretty much ruined the guys wheel cover, he then rattle gunned the bolts back on in a clock wise motion... and drop the car to the ground without torquing them... thats just wrong in my eyes.
offspringy 4 months ago
@offspringy I've worked with those types myself and it really burns my biscuits to see that kind of thing. I'm doing my best to make that uncool by trying to bring the new people coming in the right way, the way that means that you actually care about what you do and the work that you put out. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 4 months ago
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Great Video! thanks!, My opinion I'm not sure how some of these places get away with this. Sure if the place you work at gets busy then all is good,but if not. well you make a guarantee of 30 hours, when you might of worked 40hours plus. my friend gets paid flat rate, he works over 40 every week. but never breaks his 40 on the flat rate. he puts away tires and other stuff which is not included. in the end he makes less then minimum wage. how can they do this, if the jobs are not there?
RANS87IROCZ 4 months ago
up here in canada mos of us are paid by the hour...in commercial tranport industry anyways...i would like to try a flat rate system,but only as a bonus.i would want a minimum hourly rate
666apaulo 5 months ago
@666apaulo At least here in the states you can't have it both ways, it's kind of a one way or the other proposition.
ETCG1 5 months ago
QUALITY NOT QUANTITY. awesome vid man
666drummer4 5 months ago
@666drummer4 It really is the best policy. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 5 months ago
the flat rate system doesnt affect work quality poor techs affect the quality because they dnt really care
ant1986fel 5 months ago
@ant1986fel That's a very good point, thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 5 months ago
Been a flate rate tech for many many years. My vid "ballad of the flate rate tech" sort of says it all. I completely agree that there are too many people from the managers, to advisors, warranty clerks, and crappy techs who ruin what a great thing flat rate could be. Now Mitchell is starting to use the warranty time to base their retail times. The end of days is near.
sunray9 5 months ago
@sunray9 I loved that video, in fact I'm going to put it on next weeks FATR. Thanks for sending it to me.
ETCG1 5 months ago
I was on the individual flat rate system. The service mangler was an alcoholic as was the owner. They would give me jobs such as check the brakes. I would check them and price the parts. Then they would give the job to another tech (who never was sober) He would inherently screw something up, and when they brought it back they made me fix it for free. And this guy wouldn't buy tools, just borrow. It got so bad I just had to leave because I couldn't make any money there.
84W150 6 months ago
@84W150 That's a bad situation indeed and not an uncommon one from what I've seen. Thanks very much for your input and comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
I used to be flat rate and I literally had to fight for jobs. I had to deal with greedy techs grabbing 4 or 5 jobs at a time while others just sat waiting for something to come in. So the result of that was angry customers waiting hours for their vehicles to get fixed because of some greedy asshole hogging up all the work. So in the end we all lose because angry customers usually don't come back so nobody makes any money.
castigo617 6 months ago
@castigo617 Your story is more common than anything unfortunately, the system works best when people show personal responsibility which in my experience doesn't happen that often. Thanks for your input and for your comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
what the song you used in this video
partyboyperk 6 months ago
@partyboyperk I wrote it.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Flat Rate The carrot. I found this video on what motivates us. (The surprising truth about what motivates us. by rsa) I recommend you watch this anyone wondering about the flat rate system.
Thewiredmechanic 6 months ago
@Thewiredmechanic That's a gerat suggestion I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
It sucks when you only get like 1% of the gravy work that comes in.
JohnxWaynexGacy 6 months ago
@JohnxWaynexGacy That does suck, politics can be the worst part of the job in my opinion, with cars if they are broke you fix them, with politics things get a little trickier.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@ETCG1 You just have to be better politician :) they should start teaching Psychology at the tech schools. How to play the game 101
Thewiredmechanic 6 months ago
@Thewiredmechanic That might not be a bad idea but I wonder if there is enough time with all the other stuff that needs to be learned. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
I work as a marine technician and I get paid an hourly wage and we charge per hour with a 1 hour minimum charge on work orders.
classicoutboards 6 months ago
@classicoutboards That seems to be about the standard for check out time, thanks for weighing in.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Here in Australia, mechanics are mostly payed by wage (hourly rate x hrs worked) rather than billed hours ect and compared to each other (and incentivised) by their efficiency in completing work and comebacks. I feel this system does not always ensure a flow of quality work. In terms of labour times - I think another issue here is the type of cars being worked on. Older cars will have more unforeseen problems / issues . Perhaps much comes down to good estimation + quality employees?
bitpri05 6 months ago
@bitpri05 Older cars are a very good point and I agree that comes down to the estimating process and involving the customer in the repair so that they are made aware of the situation BEFORE work begins, if I've learned anything it's that customers HATE to be called after they have already committed to a price and then you have to tell them they need to spend more. Thanks very much for your 'international' input, it really ads perspective thank you.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Fortunately, my shop demands integrity, and a lack of it will cost you your job. I have always found that being honest with the customer and producing quality work makes for returning customers that develop trust in there tech. I pride myself in being that type of tech.
JoeFantauzzo568 6 months ago
@JoeFantauzzo568 It's always great to hear from techs that take pride in their work. Let me just say that I appreciate you and your work very much, keep up the good work.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Eric I work for a Honda dealer. I am on the individual flat rate system. I have had weeks of 80+ and 90+ hrs, and I have had 25 hr weeks. It all averages out. A good tech can make money by keeping his eyes open. A .3 LOF can become 1.3 if you see a bad serp belt.
JoeFantauzzo568 6 months ago
@JoeFantauzzo568 Your a man after my own heart, keep up the good work.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@JoeFantauzzo568 I worked flat rate as well in several dealerships - I averaged about 90 hours a week doing the WHOLE repair, every time. I did LOTS of auto trans work - getting paid 28 hours for an eight hour day was a nice bonus ....... It'd be hard to do that in an "any garage" where every freekin' job is different every time ......
ScooterBob69 3 months ago
As an engineer I charge a price per job (not including unexpected parts)
That way i am under no pressure to do a job within a time scale...
Anyone else work like this, the ''price' method works well
nordrecordsuk 6 months ago
@nordrecordsuk You really are doing the same thing as flat rate is just a way of describing labor cost on an estimate, it's the technician that decides how they manage that time given.
ETCG1 6 months ago
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i dont like the System but grate vid
scottaner500 6 months ago
i dont like the System
scottaner500 6 months ago
So can you have over 40 hours in 3 days? sounds like it happens a lot being a tech...thats good right pay wise?
skoalchurch 6 months ago
What's going on, Eric? I like this video, but I have a concern. I just did a Job Shadow at a local shop, and one of the guys I was watching told me he did an engine R&R that bills the customer for 8.8 hours and he did it in 5.2 hours. I watched him do an aftermarket stereo system rewiring job that paid an hour for 2 minutes of work. I think a difference that big is kind of screwing the customer. Do you find a point where you feel that the flat-rate billing is bad/wrong?
JTheGuitarPlayer 6 months ago
@JTheGuitarPlayer That really is part of the 'game'. The truth is it doesn't always work that way and he was probably bragging a bit. There are some days where you can beat book time HONESTLY and not cut corners and there are days when you get your butt handed to you because you can't find a particular problem that takes all day where you only get paid the hour check out time. I think it comes down to the individual tech and the quality of work that they put out.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@ETCG1 I just think that sometimes, the Tech does the job right the first time, and the customer still gets screwed. I don't want to work on a Team System for my first job. That would be bad.
JTheGuitarPlayer 6 months ago
@ETCG1 from what ive seen ...especially with warrenty jobs,the times that they give you are total crap.They time some guy in a factory who has done the job 600 times and is dealing with brand new nuts n bolts 100% clean.most of the time its really hard to meet never mind beat!!I think i will stick with my hourly rate,at least i know what i will be takin home no matter how shitty my day went.
666apaulo 5 months ago
@666apaulo In my tenure as a technician I've seen labor times decrease a great deal but it seems that just about every profession is suffering from that these days. I've also seen a lot more warranty work and a lot less service work that also contribute to a smaller pay check. Thanks very much for your comment.
ETCG1 5 months ago
@JTheGuitarPlayer Once you work flat rate long enough, you are gonna learn that these sorts of things will make up for all the crap you take as a dealer tech. You are providing a service and the customer isnt always just paying for what you do. but what you know. It may have taken that A tech 2 minutes to do the job, but thats because he knew what he was doing. When you dont know what you are doing, you go to someone that does. That costs money.
310stanger 6 months ago
Respond to this video... I'd like to add that as a dealership tech, I'd probably cry if I added up all the hours I've spent on cars versus the money I got back via warranty time. Anybody that can ever view the flat rate system as raping the customer has never worked flat rate, or worked it long enough. Go rot on a car for 3 hrs and get paid .4 and then see how ya feel lol
310stanger 6 months ago
Respond to this video... Eric care to make a video about customers that want you to reengineer their car to their own specifications, because they insist the car isnt "right" nevermind that it works fully within manufacturers specification?
310stanger 6 months ago
Here all that happens is When a tech is getting close to the 'book time' they just don't finish the job. They don't change Cabin filters or brake fluid etc. Just as long as they finish within the book time.
pobedaGAZm20 6 months ago
@pobedaGAZm20 That's a really sad thing as it does make the rest of use look bad.
ETCG1 6 months ago
I think this system is good for vehicles less than about 5 years old. The older it gets the more problems will occur during repair. For example while replacing front shocks a few years ago I found the strut tower was starting to rust so suddenly I had an hour of rust killing to do. On the flat rate the strut would just go back over the rust. I do not know what the best system for older cars is?
andrewthompsonuk1 6 months ago
@andrewthompsonuk1 That's an interesting point you make and I agree that the older something gets the more challenges it can present during a given repair. My approach has always been to involve the customer in the repair, meaning a good show and tell and explanation of what is involved that way they are on the same page and have less 'surprises' to deal with during the course of the repair. Great comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
some big problems I had with flat rate was eating the managers mistakes. in bodywork you need a good manager who is writing the estimates witout missing items. another is if the shop writes a new door goes on the car then the shop asks you to repair it and keeps the profit.
AdirondackNY 6 months ago
@AdirondackNY I don't think I've seen an accurate estimate yet for body shop work especially when it comes to internal damage to a vehicle that can't always be seen. Body shops have a completely different set of problems in my opinion that fall under a different video. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Damn good video. I had worked at a couple of individual cut throat flat rate shops, one was a large dealership and the other was an independent. Both were very brutal. Like you had stated, the work from most of the "techs" sucked, multiple combacks etc. What I had experienced was the more you kissed a@@ the better the work you recieved. I couldn't tolerate that any longer. I was lucky to move on to a new place (like you are :) ) that pays a salery and the conditions are for the most part better.
BAXMAN68 6 months ago
@BAXMAN68 Yea the politics of those places can be toxic, it's sad but true. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
4:39 lol Personally individual Flat rate/Commission or bust! Most bike tech are paid hourly/teamwork with no incentive, thus the 23% turnover rate nationally. I was fortunate to get a piece of the pie due to my boss's meager capital lol
But I do have to ask, in your time did you have the right to refuse service or did you accept whatever the cat dragged in?
If you were forced to work on any derelict POS perhaps the next video should elaborate on that where you ought to choose a better shop.
Begbucks 6 months ago
@Begbucks No I was never able to refuse work, I tried but was not able to do so. It's not something that I do often but I prefer to talk directly to the customer to find out what their expectations are before beginning work that way all the cards are on the table.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@ETCG1 Well then, I can see how a day could turn to a nightmare fast.
Yeah; conferring is always a good starting point though.
Begbucks 6 months ago
hey eric, i recently saw your reply to my comment about following you dreams, thank you very much.. STAY DIRTY
wisgolf2012 6 months ago
@wisgolf2012 I meant every word. Good luck.
ETCG1 6 months ago
When I was growing up in Louisville KY in the late 60s I was 10 and my dad worked 2 jobs full time at a foundry where he was a mold maker he also worked the second job where he worked for a taxi cab company repairing cabs he did this in the evening and took me there a lot to teach me how to work on cars he was paid a flat hourly rate of 4.50 hr where he made 13.90 at the foundry he said flat rate was unfair way back then and would not work for someone who runs it that way .
ncrdisabled 6 months ago
@ncrdisabled It's not for everyone that's for sure. There are those that can make it work and those that just don't like it. As for fair I really think that depends on the individual. Thanks for your comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@ETCG1 u r 100% right the labor rate is cheaper for us, I get paid by hour so I take a bit more time on the things I work on cause there is really no hurry to get the job done. That's why am afraid to get paid on a flat rate, I have thought about going to a new car dealership but I don't know if I'll be able to turn a lot of hours..
3o5richierich 6 months ago
@3o5richierich It's not for everyone. Sometimes taking less money is better than compromising your integrity.
ETCG1 6 months ago
my dad always got screwed that way...he always used to work for $7 and hours and get the job done in 3hours compared to the 7hours that the other mechanics cost $20 an hour...he regrets it and wished he would of never done that and would be like the other mechanic
clony101 6 months ago
@clony101 I'm sorry to hear that, it is important to get paid for your time and experience especially in this business. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
As much as flate rate can suck sometimes, i think its the main thing that has kept me in this profession. Going back to gettin paid by the hour is just boring and i suffer from withdrawal. I like stayin busy, but i really like going to a job where if theres no cars to work on I can chill in the a/c or play card games with other techs or watch etcg1 videos on youtube. Then downside is most places want you to clock around 50 hours and usually from 8-6 which really takes away from your social life.
srv3fender 6 months ago
@srv3fender Yea it's not always a bed of roses but you do have a certain freedom with the flat rate system that you don't get with salary. Thanks for your input and for watching ETCG videos on your break!
ETCG1 6 months ago
I'm fairly surprised noone has asked what a 'tenth' is. It's obvious math, but when I was at my first job in a shop, I had no idea what it was. A tenth of an hour is 6 minutes (1 hour divided by ten=6 minutes) So, if an oil change pays three tenths, or .3 hours, it's 18 minutes. Try pulling a car in off the lot, racking it up, completely draining the oil (completely as should be done!) and finishing the job and rolling it out in 18 minutes. It just doesn't add up. Just for very new guys..
beefystik 6 months ago
@beefystik I get paid $5 at my garage for doing oil changes. I usually take about 30 minutes from pulling it in to the customer leaving. I don't make money on an oil change, but do it as a service for my customers who are usually repeat customers.
bhstone1 6 months ago
@beefystik Now that you mention it I wish I had covered that but thank you for filling that gap.
ETCG1 6 months ago
likes flat rate system. It good if you can get 10+ hr a day. I also like the team system if everybody work. Some dealership here in cali will pay supplement, for some reason your team can't get 80 hr.
h23sirlude 6 months ago
@h23sirlude It is true that if not everyone is pulling their weight on a team that your paycheck will suffer. Thanks for your input and comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Intermittent issues are what will screw you over on the flat rate system.
IIGrayfoxII 6 months ago
@IIGrayfoxII Yes, those and electrical problems can really wreck your day but the key is to document it well and you MIGHT get paid. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Flat rate is feast or famine depending on your skills. Jobs still need to walk in the door and people have to be willing to pay for the work in order for a tech to make money. Techs are cash cows for the dealership or shop owner. No work in the shop= no money made. It's not the best job security pay plan. Don't forget about, backflagging and warranty time.
Fedwrench 6 months ago
@Fedwrench Very true words, thank you very much for that insightful comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Being a mobile electronics installer in the company I'm in, we have a variation of the flat rate system, except we don't see any pay from it as we're hourly. They used to give a portion to the autotechs, but the quality aspect changed that. Reason I don't like it, just like you said no 2 cars are the same. Say a head unit install is $50, should take .75hr, some vehicles, say an early 90's F150, done in 10min, and a Taurus, 1.5hr due to bypassing the tuner in the trunk. It is what it is I guess.
hellraiser319 6 months ago
@hellraiser319 Yes it is unfortunate that it isn't always fair or even accurate but it is what we signed on for so we get up, go to work, and do the best we can. Thanks very much for your comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Hope you don't take this the wrong way,but I do like this channel more than the repair channel because nobodIy out there says it like you do. I would like to hear the other side and your opinion on being self employed ,pros and cons. Fantastic vid
Bonfield2002 6 months ago
@Bonfield2002 As long as your watching I'm doing my job. Seriously I do appreciate your comment, I really started this channel to answer some of the questions that I had been getting about this stuff I actually didn't think it would get this popular but I'm glad it did. Thanks for watching and for your comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Eric, I enjoy watching you, and drinking a beer, as long as you don't discuss politics. Iam paid hourly, which has it's downsides too. It's a steady paycheck, but it also doesnt go up because you had a productive week, which sucks. And also, if Joe Blow doesnt produce, you'll end up getting the work that he's not doing, just because your such a productive fellow. Life IS beautiful, most of the time.
int53185 6 months ago
@int53185 I'm not into getting political so don't worry about that. Even in the flat rate system you can get screwed by the lazy as much as you can by the money hungry, I suppose it's the same wherever you go. Thanks very much for the comment and have one for me.
ETCG1 6 months ago
We get paid by the hour. Its a different mindset then flat rate. We do the job right now matter how long it takes
ShawnCFarm 6 months ago
@ShawnCFarm That can work very well as I've worked in shops like that and I still got paid. It really depends on what your used to, some techs start out flat rate and can't work any other way. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
bhstone1 said that a 1.5 hr job took 8 hrs because a rusty bolt snapped. Should the mechanic not get paid for that extra time if it wasn't his fault? 8 hrs to fix a broken bolt is way too much time, but maybe he should've been paid something extra.
CoolasIce2 6 months ago
@CoolasIce2 Yeah that just completely sucked. I had to drill through the entire bolt and then back it out. It was terrible, but only got paid what we quoted the guy. For now on I am telling my customers that it's only an estimate and not locking them into any price before I "get in there".
bhstone1 6 months ago
@CoolasIce2 In a situation like that you need to get the customer involved and find out the cause of the problem and sort it out with them with a fair estimate before proceeding with the work. Sometimes you can get paid more in a situation like that but you have to handle it properly or you just have to eat it.
ETCG1 6 months ago
One of the "old timers" at work once said to me "Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you"....
Great words of wisdom...
J....
jdouglasfisher 6 months ago
@jdouglasfisher Truer words were never said especially when it comes to auto repair. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
thanks very much for this channel. it's full of great stuff - i've been studying for a while and just got accepted to an automotive service & repair course in the fall. these are awesome for someone that is planning to become a tech! keep this stuff coming please!
brakedd 6 months ago
@brakedd That is pretty much why I started making them as I was getting a lot of questions about this stuff so I decided to start this channel as it really doesn't fit into the ETCG frame of repair video. Thanks for your comment and good luck in school.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Hours it goes up to £15
BrettyUK 6 months ago
Personally I think that system hoes hand in hand with corner cutting. Here in the UK we don't have a system like that thankfully although some dealers have a bonus where you get bonus money fir getting tons done under book time. I'm salaried it can take me all day to do an electrical fault or I can do 5 services I get paid the same hourly rate. If I work for 8 hours in a day I get paid for 8 hours. If I ho over 8 hours n do over time I get paid time n a half so if my hourly rate is £10 after 8
BrettyUK 6 months ago
@BrettyUK Some shops are set up that way in the US but most are flat rate or commission based, I suppose we like to inspire more work through greed. Thanks for your international insight.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Good video topic!
Mopardude 6 months ago
eric what do you mean by the "cookie cutter" ?
KillerZero259 6 months ago
@KillerZero259 You can't always put a particular repair into a mold and expect it to go the same every time. Consider the rust belt where just removing fasteners can take a lot longer because of rust and things breaking, flat rate may be a start but it doesn't cover EVERY situation.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@ETCG1 ohh right, i got you. thanks for the reply
KillerZero259 6 months ago
I know the system well and I know the points you hit. I worked at a Hyundai dealership that was Individual Flag time. The best way i found to work it was to begin concentrating on quality, and with time, the speed will pick up and quality will stay the same. I voulenteered for all the crappy electrical and intermittent drivability problems i could get on. This allowed me to refine my test methods and build the reputation that I could ask for more diag time in hours when it took more time.
Collins328 6 months ago
@Collins328 I did the exact same thing and ended up doing quality work and getting paid pretty well, it can be done you just have to give yourself the time to do the work right and not focus on the flag time. I really appreciate your comment and keep up the good work, we need more like you.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Hang on, so I'm not sure I understand this completely. If a technician spends 2 hours on an oil change he gets paid for the two hours or only the 3/10 time that was estimated? And if they get paid for every hour they work on a car, wouldn't technicians just milk the clock? Not sure how this "flag" time works exactly, but it definitely sounds interesting. It seems there's gotta be a better and more creative way.
blinkskaterkc 6 months ago
@blinkskaterkc If an oil change pays 0.3 hrs, and it takes you 2 hours to do it, you still only get paid 0.3 hrs for that oil change. Like he said, every job has a set time and you get paid that time no matter how long it ACTUALLY takes you.
Collins328 6 months ago
@Collins328 Okay, that's what I was assuming when I heard Eric say that. But what confused me is why they fill out a "flag" and write down the amount of time it took the technician? Why does it matter how long it took the technician? Just trying to understand.
blinkskaterkc 6 months ago
@blinkskaterkc In a situation like that you need to inform the customer of the situation and proceed accordingly, are you going to have to replace the oil pan? Who was at fault? These questions would need to be answered before you could proceed with something like that. Some techs do milk the clock and some cut corners, is this a product of the flat rate system or just a lack of personal responsibility? I suppose this video poses that question. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
hey eric, maybe your next topic next time, does it ever occur to autorepair techs to refuse to service a vehicle?
wangbungal 6 months ago
@wangbungal I have and I don't know anyone that hasn't at one time or another, some jobs just aren't worth doing because some cars are just too far gone to make the investment into.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Eric, Hope I don't get you in trouble. How much would you charge in labor for changing a distributor on a 1991 Accord DX? Can skip timing. How did you figure the price?
tubejim101 6 months ago
@tubejim101 Book time is .5 hours including timing the engine. That does NOT include diagnostic time however which is normally 1.0.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Eric, I was doing a lower ball joint a few months ago. Should have taken maybe 1.5 hours. The bolt holding in the ball join snapped and we spent 8 HOURS drilling it out. Only got paid for the 1.5. Not my fault that the bolt head snapped. It was 13 years old and rusted as all hell. Sometimes the system works against you.
bhstone1 6 months ago
@bhstone1 In those situations you have to leave the door open for charging more and let the customer know up front if you think a job might go badly like that, I know this is not always possible but in the end it's really a balancing act but if estimated properly you can get paid for that time. Thanks for your comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@ETCG1 True, but if I go back to someone and tell them it's going to be $300 more than I originally quoted they are going to go nuts. I just swallowed hard and in the future an being much more careful about estimates.
bhstone1 6 months ago
I work at a used car lot and we don't have all the tools here so we have to use a big name shop to do the work. They get paid flat rate and the jobs that they do is not the best, we had a oil pan gasket that we send to them and the tech didn't care to wipe or clean the oil of the sub frame.. But it all goes back to the flat rate cause to clean the frame would have taken him 20 more mins that don't pay.. Its sad but that's whats happens.
3o5richierich 6 months ago
@3o5richierich Speaking from a different perspective in my experience used car dealers don't have a lot of room to remain profitable so they cut corners anywhere they can so perhaps they have a special labor rate that is less than what a customer would pay and therefore not as much care is placed on the work for that car lot, it is true that time is money.
ETCG1 6 months ago
I would like to see you explain the Ins and Outs of estimates. How much of the estimate is really cost vs profit? Most people go to a shop and get estimates for damage/repair/maintenance, but most people don't know what things really cost. Give us examples of inflated estimates and competitive estimates from dealer vs independent shops.
carpenter356 6 months ago
@carpenter356 That would be a great topic and perhaps I'll cover it in the next video.
ETCG1 6 months ago
@carpenter356 That would be a great topic and perhaps I'll cover it in the next video.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Where I worked, we had teams but it was individual flat rate. The "team leader" distributed the work to the other team mates. My first mentor, the team leader, would always skim the gravy off the top for himself and the other guys got screwed into mostly warranty work. My second mentor did things very fairly and took the warranty work more often than not. Then again, as his apprentice, he got paid for every hour I flagged. He rarely flagged less than 20 hours a day. I got a regular salary
fastveedub 6 months ago
@fastveedub It can work if you have the right people doing the right thing but unfortunately that is the exception rather than the rule in my experience.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Keep doing what your doing man. I love your vids. Looking forward to "How to sell the job" vid.
4cfedz31 6 months ago
@4cfedz31 That would be a good video. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
if it is individual flat rate, how do you get help with 2 man jobs, like having some one turn the key or lift something heavy?
americantractors 6 months ago
@americantractors That's a common problem i always used to run in to, but alot of mechanics understand some jobs take more than one person to do and they help each other out. On the other hand there are technicians that think since they will not get paid for helping you, they won't help.
greg197040 6 months ago
@americantractors Hopefully you don't work with a-holes and they are willing to help even thought they 'aren't getting paid'. Most shops work this way as it can be a 2 way street if everyone sees it that way.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Great video Eric! How do you as an independent mechanic bill for jobs? Do you base it off the book's time or just from your own experience? Keep up the good work!
TheTexasCoder 6 months ago
@TheTexasCoder Yep I do base off of the book time, perhaps that would be a good topic for the next video since getting paid seems to be a hot topic. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
That's hard-earned money and a system that has become common in many other businesses.
I think it is not leading forward & it is not improving the service.
Not every service is like ordering a burger in a fast food restaurant.
Things can take time! Precise, accurate work takes time.
I hate the fact that many people just can't afford quality service anymore, bc they themselves are forced into these kind of systems and paid badly. Don't really see a good future coming, if this stays that way
TheGetawayer 6 months ago
@TheGetawayer Interesting observations, thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago
Hey Eric, it isn't self policing, it is COMMUNISM. :O
caseman2294 6 months ago
@caseman2294 HAHAHA funny.
ETCG1 6 months ago
great info my son is starting collage soon for mechanics
spanermantim 6 months ago
@spanermantim I wish him luck. Thanks for the comment.
ETCG1 6 months ago