Did all the Prophets Spoke About Islam and Allah?

[ratzP]

the best religious (cult) joke ever,, islam = ppl from Hell=Void

a muslim must always b treated with contempt and suspicion!!!

[yessua9ibnallah]

@ratzP Is ok to express your opinion. I am a christian and I prefer if for your next comment you elaborate either on the subject of the vid or a parallel subject. Try to keep it with out prejudice, if you can avoid stereotyping muslims as then we are giving them a window to stereotype us too.

[cosmic4peace]

Therefore this posses a serious threat 4 the claims within the quran its self, as it claims the bible has been corrupted! we now know its not, so does this prove then that quran is not an inspired word from God? i say yes! Many difrent sects in islam quote diffrent suras, the numbers differ from one sect2 the other, thus dismantles the claim that quran is same all over the world? this cant be truthful as i pointed out previousley, my conclssion is that the quran is not Gods words its mans words!

[yessua9ibnallah]

Thanks for you very informed and sound arguments. How can it be possible that the Quran and the Bible were made by the same God? I think that if this is true both would need to agree. It is obvious that they dont agree, so Muslims need to realize their Allah is NOT THE SAME GOD from the Bible, hence they worship another God different from the God of Abraham and that Islam has no relation to Christianity or Judaism, and that the only alternate source for the Islamic massage is paganism!

[cosmic4peace]

Yes i totaly agree with you, the islamic and christian way go in diffrent directions!, the missiah in the bible is the anti christ in the quran! and the anti christ in the bible is the mehedi in the quran, they are completly on the other side! a completly diffrent message!

Bless you that you can see the truth, God Bless you

[osmaan87]

all of what you say in this block are very superficial ill guarantee you that ALLAH is who all the messengers worshiped. there is a mountain of evidence behind it and i have a mountain here in my very home so do your research befor you say such things remember ALLAH sees all and hears all things ALLAH is infinite in every way we couldnt possible imagine and our senses cannot capture that search the 99 attributes of ALLAH

[yessua9ibnallah]

osmaan, your argument is that we are superficial,. But then we you are questioned on the LOGIC, you just say "I guarantee you that ALLAH is who all the messengers worshiped" and "there is a mountain of evidence behind it", Are a prophet like Mohammad?, should I trust your superficial statement without you even giving a trace of logic in for your arguments? Answer the logical dilemma proposed by this video with your "tons of evidence", just one pond your evidence should be enough.

[osmaan87]

ok i have a series on my hdd called the arrivals you can download it on a torrent and in my room i have Quran and various hadith you can search google for Quran/hadith databases and find your answer . Dont take my word for it because its not my word its the word of ALLAH im just a witness my friend

[yessua9ibnallah]

osmaan, If you cant answer a direct questions to your OWN arguments why should I trust that you "series" will have anything of value or logic. Plainly, for the last time answer simply and directly: If all prophets spoke about Allah, would it be possible for any man to corrupt the any of the "reminders" of Allah? can you answer yes or no and elaborate?

[osmaan87]

well as we know it this whole entire existance is not luck, chance, or random spontaneous, it is the will of ALLAH and ALLAH willed for the religion of man to be complete with the Quran. The first thing Adam (AS) seen when he opened his eyes Lailaha ilAllah Muhammed Darasullulah there is no god but ALLAH and muhammed is the messenger of ALLAH. the Quran was ready 50,000 years befor the earth was created. man plot and plan but ALLAH is the best of planners.

[osmaan87]

the fact that the Originals are here ALLAH said it was here before us and not a single iota of the truth has been changed, because the truth is absolute it transcends the older scriptures itself. ALLAH built the universe in truth. All we have is a choice and if you try to corrupt the Quran youll invoke the wrath of ALLAH i would dare try and corrupt it, the other scriptures had it coming because there were some evil men plotting and it didnt work out for them and there all dead now

[osmaan87]

if you wanna take all what im sayin as a joke be my guest challenge ALLAH see what happens. you think youll be triumphant over the one who protects all things but is not protected?

[69pmac]

"Thus all the Books that had been sent down to the Messengers were Zikr, and the Qur'an is also Zikr."

"The Qur'an is also Zikr."

now the very big, and dramatical error here is that the verse says:

"It is We Who have sent down THE Dhikr"

use of the word "the" specifies that it is not regarding general Dhikr, but a specific Dhikr, or reminder. Now, since you keep saying that according to the Quran, the word of the bible should also be preserved, well than...

[69pmac]

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Quran, 2:77-79)"

[69pmac]

Oh, now back to the verse. You talked about tafsir, heres a commentary about the verse:

"This is one of the most wonderful prophecies, whose fulfilment is, and will ever

remain, a standing testimony to the truth of the Holy Qurån. The statement is first made

in connection with the powerful opposition of the disbelievers, and is then made general,

that the Qurån will for all time be preserved safe against all attempts to destroy it and

from every kind of corruption."

muslim(.)org

[69pmac]

and if you want to look at the actuall translation of the verse, most of the translators actually use the word "Quran". Or they say "i.e Quran". Say yes, this is your own interpratation of the verse my friend...

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, as you probably know, translations of the Quran are but the "meaning" or INTERPRETATIONS of the Quran. Hence translations of the Quran are TAFSIR by themselves, and contain the views and prejudices of the translators. Locally I know some Arabic, and I can tell you that the passage in question has no indication to apply ONLY to the Quran literally or with EXCLUSIVITY. That is not what the passage ACTUALLY says.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, one tafsir agaist the other YOU as a muslim have to think and see who is lying from among your own scholars and brothers or if both interpretations are valid. It is your call, the interpretation of this passage that I have explained here comes from purely Islamic sources and makes more sense with Islam and Allah as believed by most muslims.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, verse 2:77-79, does not state the Torah was corrupted, but that those ILLITERATES Jewish or Christians, following their own greed and assigned their bad acts to following the Torah but "know not the Book". The word ILLITERATE implies that those people did not know what the BOOK (uncorrupted one) was saying, and that there where vehicles to prove these people as ILLITERATE and corrupted. So the corruption of what ever text they proposed to have was easily proven not true by LITERATES.

[69pmac]

verse 2:77-79 is talking about the illiterates (they did not know the book) who changed the books for their own personal needs. Meaning they CHANGED by them.

"...They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such... (The Quran, 5:41)"

[69pmac]

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain...

[69pmac]

Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you! (Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

now, tell me, according to christian theology, god also does not change. However, the law has also been changing for you. Once upon a time, you where not allowed to worship men, and you where told to have capital punishment to just about everyhing

[69pmac]

so how about that? the god that you believe does not change, suddonly sacrafices his son for the sins of every man and child. All of a sudden, all he needs is faith in him, actions are no longer required. What happens to "change" there?

Now time to answer your question, there is no where that Allah actually says that he will protect his previous books. You have no musim comment that says that. So whatever God does not promise, there is no expectation on him to do it.

[69pmac]

Now again, I showed you the grammatical error with your statement. Now, lets stop running in circles, and please just admit that your arguement is false. It is grammatically incorrect, now if you have another verse that is related, that verse will not validify the fact that grammer contradicts your statements.

[tomohawk211]

A) @69pmac (said)~"..the god that you believe does not change, suddenly sacrafices his son for the sins of every man and child.."

Reply - U r wrong! God did not SUDDENLY sacrifice His son for sins of many! He announced it 700 yrs before in (Isaiah 53:10-12) -"..When You make His soul an offering for sin,.. For He shall bear their iniquities....He poured out His soul unto death.."

Also in (Genesis 22:2) -"God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac" (a shadow of what was to come)

[tomohawk211]

A) @69pmac (said)~"..the god that you believe does not change, suddenly sacrafices his son for the sins of every man and child.."

Reply - U r wrong! God did not SUDDENLY sacrifice His son for sins of many! He announced it 700 yrs before in (Isaiah 53:10-12) -"..When You make His soul an offering for sin,.. For He shall bear their iniquities....He poured out His soul unto death.."

[tomohawk211]

A) @69pmac (said)~"..the god that you believe does not change, suddenly sacrafices his son for the sins of every man and child.."

Reply - U r wrong! God did not SUDDENLY sacrifice His son for sins of many! He announced it 700 yrs before in (Isaiah 53:10-12) -"..When You make His soul an offering for sin,.. For He shall bear their iniquities....He poured out His soul unto death.."

[tomohawk211]

B) @69pmac (said) ~"...All of a sudden, all God needs is faith in him, actions are no longer required.."

Reply - That's not true either! God does nothing w/o informing thru' his prophets. God prophesized in (Jeremiah 31:31 & Hebrews 8:7-13) -"that God will make a New Covenant not like the one when God made earlier thru Moses", & God says in (Jeremiah 31:34 & Hebrews 8:12) -"..I will forgive their inequity...& will be merciful to their unrighteousness.."

[tomohawk211]

B) @69pmac (said) ~"...All of a sudden, all God needs is faith in him, actions are no longer required.."

Reply - That's not true either! God does nothing w/o informing thru' his prophets. God prophesized in (Jeremiah 31:31 & Hebrews 8:7-13) -"that God will make a New Covenant not like the one when God made earlier thru Moses", & God says in (Jeremiah 31:34 & Hebrews 8:12) -"..I will forgive their inequity...& will be merciful to their unrighteousness.."

[tomohawk211]

C) @69pmac

(Genesis 15:6) ~"..And he (Abraham) believed in the LORD, and God accounted it to him for righteousness.."

(Galatians 3:6) ~"..Scriptures say God accepted Abraham because Abraham had faith.."

(James 2:23) -"..Scriptures mean: Abraham had faith in God, & so Abraham became a friend of God.."

So it was FAITH that justified man from the beginning, (& so all of a sudden God did not need faith)!

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, again the interpretation that I give has been taken from Islamic sources, it is in harmony with Islamic believe about the Quran and all the revelations thereafter, the verse 10, reaffirms that the correct interpretation is not the Quran as a reminder, but all the previous revelations with are the same and only reminder of the only Mother of Books (Umm Al-Kitub) that is in heaven, according to Islamic belief.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, To refer to the Dhikr as only referring to the Quran is a forced interpretation, to suit the view that all previous revelations are corrupted since Allah did not promised to keep them as he did with the Quran. be aware that that interpretation blames Allah for giving his word and then not protecting it, making him ultimately responsible for the corruption of all previous revelation. So your interpretation makes has also dramatic errors as a direct consequence.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, additionally, the fact that Allah protects the Quran from corruption while he did not protected the previous reminder from alteration, poses a question on Allah nature, it follows ur argument that Allah changes his nature, against all Islamic believe about Allah. Protection of HIS OWN word is not to be taken lightly, because the WORD of ALLAH itself is eternal and unchangeable, so His ATTITUDE towards HIS WORD fallows logically must be UNCHANGEABLE, and INDEPENDENT of man or nature.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, Quoting from islamic sources "weakness and change are non-befitting to Allah", and " the One whose Self is eternal does not develop or change. Allah's attributes are eternal and do not develop or change." from aicp(dot)com "The attributes of the Self of Allah". As you see change is not an attribute that can be associated with Allah with regards to his attributes, his Word (Kalam) or his attitude towards himself.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, from the site, aicp(dot)com, "It is obligatory to believe Allah is attributed with Speech (Kalam). This is an eternal and everlasting attribute with which Allah orders, forbids, and informs. It is not a letter nor a sound nor a language. The Qur'an and the other revealed Books are expressions of the eternal Kalam of the Self of Allah." hence as an attribute of Allah all expressions of his KALAM (Quran, Ingil, Torah) are not subject to change without associating change with Allah himself.

[69pmac]

"Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." (The Quran 15:9)

your arguement would make sense, HOWEVER:

this verse is SPECIFICALLY speaking about the quran. You take YOUR intrepitation of this verse, and you use that to carry out your arguement.

Now, let us look at the verse right after:

"We did send messengers before thee amongst the religious sects of old" (The Quran 15:10)

[69pmac]

so as you can clearly see, the verse right after speaks of "messengers before thee", meaning that the verse before was talking about the Quran. And notice how it says "the Dhikr". Now "the" specifies, meaning that it is talking about a specific 'Dhikr', or reminder. It is not referring to the past reminders.

[69pmac]

Now if your way was the way everyone argued, people could argue that the message of islam is that there is no god. They would just take the: IL ALLAH part out of shahada, and they will be left with "LA ILLAHA" which means: There is no God.

Simple misunderstandings cause dramatic changes

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, I agree with your grammatical interpretation, but like your friend cmel says there is a "metaphorical" use of the word The Reminder.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, The verse talks about all Allah's messengers in plural, which was not only Muhammad, since he is only one and the use of a plural will not make sense.

This is confirm in the tafsir: "We do not send down the angels for the mere fun of it in response to the request of the people: nor are they sent to unveil the Reality before them in order to show to them all the "unseen" things to which the Messengers invite them to believe." englishtafsir(dot)com.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, in arabic the "il" makes the worg dhikr, a definitive noun, but since the Islamic convention is that the message of Allah has allwas been the Quran, since Allah can not change, this includes all previous revelation to all of human kind. This includes the Torah and the Ingil in their "initial form". That is why the general word "the Dhikr" is used instead of "The Quran", since all books are "reminders"of what Allah has been saying since the beginning to ALL his prophets.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, so "my" interpretation is corroborated by Tafsir and by general Islamic doctrine and view of revelation. The message of Allah has always being the same, so all messages after the first one have been reminders of the one and only message, including the Torah, Injil and Quran. If you dont agree then that is you problem is your religion and Islamic sources I am using, you can choose which tafsir you use and argue why one Islamic tafsir is better than the other.

[yessua9ibnallah]

@69, just to state that this is not MY interpretation. Check online tafsir of this verse.

an example is: "The word (Zikr) literally means "to cause to remember, "to caution" and "to give advice". But the Qur'an has used it as a technical term for "Admonition", which comes as a precept. Thus all the Books that had been sent down to the Messengers were Zikr, and the Qur'an is also Zikr." englishtafsir(dot)com. You may not agree with me, but this is what your Tafsir says.

[69pmac]

yes, so I see you have done your homework.

Ok, let me get to it. ""The word (Zikr) literally means "to cause to remember, "to caution" and "to give advice".

now again, there is no source that says that the use of the word "the" is metaphoric. The verse simply says "the reminder" not "the reminders". So that poses a very serious problem with your arguemnt. You cannot simply assume that this statement is metaphoric.

[cosmic4peace]

To conclude then, we do have copies at the time of muhammad, we look at these copies, affirmed ny muhammad himself to go and use it, is showing the scriptures to be pure and realiable source of information!, so if we compare these manuscripts from the times of muhammad and the bible that we have now, indeed they pass the same message on, most importantly this confirms that the Bible is not corrupted, and proves that God has kept his promise to preserve the words in his book,

[cosmic4peace]

So in addition to what i noted, its without a doubt that the bible has not been changed!, the claims of quran stating that they are corrupted is false, we can examine the facts.

Another point to consider, is muhammad himself was told to refer to the book, and this advice was given to his followers at that time, so this also proves the fact that the Bible in muhammads time was not corrupted according to muhammad, question is do we have scripture from the date and times of muhammad? yes we do!

[cosmic4peace]

God has sworn to protect his words, yes i totaly agree, God created this whole universe, he made predictions that came true after a thousand years after they had been written!, which clearly shows the divine authority, Gods words&protected words!

The Bible is inspired by God, protected by him, over 2 thousands of years of Gods words. If we gather the most ancient scriptures4 example the dead sea scrolls, and compare it to the Bible that we have today it is the same!