The EU has stolen this piece of Beethoven from me as it is. I hate that there is a threat that they may steal whats left of our national sovereignty as well and everyone will just mumble through saying "Mustn't grumble". It is a real tragedy people don't realise how serious this is.
@perfacetus Their is nothing wrong with the EEC or the Laws, just as Per usual The Laws are interpreted by British politicians and their stands the bug barer!
There are plenty of things wrong with the EEC. The desire for a single political entity being number 1. The high cost to the UK and Germany being number 2. The fact that it knows none of the people of Europe want to be joined but they do it anyway number 3. CAP number 4
After the Irish people said NO to Lisbon. Brown, merkel, sarkozy & the rest of the hypocrites will try everything possible not to have anymore referendums.
the british watcher, please research more thoroughly before making a comment, do you not know that the british government is actually powerless to opose laws that come from the eu, they get there papers and told what to vote and if they opose it they will be thrown out, camerons a two faced twat because he claims to be against the eu but kisses there arses once he's in the euro chambre, he criticises hedge funds but still absorbs vast funds for himself and his party. dont believe what they say
@01101100d The British watcher is right you are wrong! what you have transcribed applies to Norway though who is not a member state but has a trade agrement.
i have read from a trusted source that the eu has blamed the british media for irelands no vote, true or not, its just an excuse to ban us from publishing anti eu news as part of there c-274/99 law, they now want to make ireland vote again - and again, till they give the right answer said the french. fucking retards, has anyone watched this new eu channel, it makes me laugh, most of the time they talk pretending to convince themselves and each other they are democratic. plz watch my campaign vid
the U.N. makes a show of opposing the death penalty. Behind the scenes: read the fine print in the Lisbon Cons Treaty the E.U. has enabled them to use the death penalty in 'war, riots and upheaval'. They have opposed the death penalty as a punishment for obscene crimes such as serial murder, they are legalising it for citizens who oppose the EU/NWO. Why 'riots and upheaval'? Are they expecting opposition from large sectors of the people of the community. Makes you wonder what kontrols they plan.
The EU's original aims have long since been accomplished. Trade has been restored, America is no longer this huge economic powerhouse threatening the whole of Europe and the threat of war has gone. That's all it was really set up to sort out.
Good luck Eire - Get the truth about oppression and the denial of democracy that is the centralised EU to enough people to vote NO & regain your liberty.
Membership of the EU has been a catastrophy for Eire raising hopes and provided a brief boom just to be used as a bribe to dupe the British. The EU now has little more chance of feeding iteslf without import than Eire had in the hungry 40s. The wars of disassociation are coming sooner rather than later and will be hideous - Vote NO leave NOW.
The abuse of Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" by the eu (which I do NOT recognise) is appalling!
The composer himself would probably abhor it's improper use! Beethoven, once an admirer of Bonaparte (who can certainly be considered as an early europeist), changed his mind when the Corsican tyrant revealed his fascist attitudes.
For instance: it was said that rumours on (then) Rear-Admiral Lord Nelson's death at the battle of Aboukir Bay inspired him in the composition of "Eroica's" Funeral March.
Hmm from your comments i dont see how you have such objections to the tune being used for the European Union.
The European Union is not a dictatorship or run by a tyrant. It brings together european nations and expands peace. Granted if the EU turns to "The Dark Side" im sure Beethoven would be against such a tune, but wed all be against such a union.
The only way the EU is going to turn into this dark superstate some predict is if we Europeans allow it. I cant see many supporters of it.
Fuck off dickhead. You euroskeptic cunt. Now we find what a bunch of offensive shiheads you scum are, fuck off. Duickhead fuck off. I support democracy you are a nationalist not a democrat pull the other one cunt.
You are totally mistaken. The European Union certainly isnt perfect and there needs to be major reforms and alot more openess however look at Britains democracy
We have an unelected Queen (who i support) that not a single British citizen has voted for. We have an unelected house of lords which votes on and edits our laws. We are hardly perfect
Now the EU isnt as undemocratic as some of you anti Europeans would like to pretend. So dont go claiming we are anti Democracy for supporting the EU
EUROPEANS elect NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS. The people of those countries can vote for parties that would pull a nation out of the union.. (such as UKIP).
EUROPEANS elect the MEPs who represent them in the EU parliament. (Like we elect MPs)
The European Parliament and the National governments of the EU decide who runs the European Commission and they act like the Civil Service does here in the UK.
Because people wont vote on this treaty they will simply vote no because certain media tell them to, such as The SUN. Most people dont know what the EU constitution would of done, let alone this Lisbon treaty.
If you ask the people of the Uk which would they of rather had a referendum on.. "the Iraq war or Lisbon treaty" i bet the vast majority would say Iraq.
There is a very big group of people in the UK who hate the EU because they dont understand it, but most people dont even care about it
Tell me Sony, what is it in this treaty you are so strongly against? I want specifics not just the "wrong direction or we were promised a referendum" crap. Tell me what you hate abouyt this treaty, not just a general moan about the European union either.
It seems to me the most people calling for a referendum simply want to leave the EU... well call for a referendum on British membership of the EU not a treaty. Parliament makes our laws and treaties, NOT people.
"Referendum Crap" And please tell me what is crap about promising a referendum in an election manifesto, campaigning heavily on the a promise only to turn around after winning the election and deny the people something they believed they would be given
Lies
Betrayal
Trickery
FASCISM
Just some that spring to mind but of course I may very well have misunderstood what the UK labour party meant by 'Referendum Promise'...
if you cannot see the dangers of the EU I will suggest you read history.
Labour should of never promised to of held a referendum on the constitution in the first place, it was only because they needed The Suns support to win an election thry caved in. Referendums are a very bad idea as like with the Irish vote it has solved nothing because people end up voting no for things that are not even linked to the treaty.
Labour have broken many promises.. Remember "Tough on crime, Tough on the causes of crime". "Education, Education, Education"... Breaking promises isnt new
Your a brainwashed socialist automaton. Your ilk are among the most dangerous people on the planet because you end up destroying humanities inbuilt desire for true freedom of thought and choice.
You answer is a complete insult to every democratic standard. Your typical of someone that doesn't realise their a fascist. I do not say this on a whim, because I have read a number of your comments.
I suggest you stop casting everyone as Sun readers. The fact you do leads me to believe you read it.
lol well the Rupert Murdoch empire which is strongly against the EU isnt the only part of the media that only spreads anti EU hate and ive never said anyone that hates the EU must be a sun reader, i accept there are many problems with the union
However to try and claim the union is doing away with human rights and freedom is total crap. The European Union has advanced Western standards east to the borders of Russia and beyond
European powers are weak alone but together we help shape the world
@TheBritishWatcher No you did not but if you had I still would have agreed with you. because thats about right ! British people seam to have made the EU, the Boggy man ! God only knows why! Perhaps because of the stiff upper lip, They need to blame somebody for the mess but it cant be Britain!
Well there are many legitimate concerns about the european union but i agree people do just blame things on europe. It is a lot easier for a country like Britain which pays huge amounts every year into the EU budget than for many of the smaller EU nations who actually get more money back than they pay in.
There are many problems and we just do not seem to be able to get change. It also attempts to grab too much power. US states have more differences / rights in some cases than the EU does.
As for the dangers there are risks but we have to remember Britain always has a veto on major issues. Brussels may decide some of our laws but it is the British Parliament that rules this land and implements them. That means aslong as we dont elect a crazy government we always have the ability to block things
The EU understands Britain doesnt want full integration. They are ok with giving us many opt outs and allowing the rest of the union to progress. Like in this treaty , euro, schengen etc
@TheBritishWatcher Well if you don't want me to mention anything about not being able to have a referendum and concentrate on the lisbon treaty then i shall. The media tell us that it will 'streamline' EU decision making processes but what does this actually mean? It means the EU having power over our criminal systems (for example taking away trial by jury to match with the continents style of justice), the NHS and even oddly enough, seing as it is only for economic purposes, home affairs!
no it's a public web page and it's a free country for the time we have left anyway we need a referendum but you dont under stand a tall how much this country has been coned
thats wrong the reasons are that if we stay in the eu we will no longer be a nation we will have become a complete new entity european britain would sece to excist to the fact that the eu is be comming more like the sovet union every single day and we didnt sign for europle for that we signned for the commen market only and we were cond and dont tell me i dont know what i am talking about because i have been following politics since 1997
oh do shut up neozykl! its our country not yours wtf do you know about our country and we dont still hold ww2 against the germans so shut the fuck up the bombs are showing that gordan brown is destroying our laws and democracy its not anything to do with the bloody germans
No it is not. It is a democratic free union of nations. No one gets locked up like they did in the soveit union for political views. That is like saying that the USA is a western soviet union.
Admit it, you choose the german version of the eu anthem to make it sound evil. I know you kind of folks. And these explosions, just like nazi rocket attacks in WWII.
now, however, isn't it interesting that in the title "don't let Brown destroy our Democracy", the word "Democracy" is written in gigantic letters, while the word "our" is hardly redable. Really interesting effect indeed.
Is EU democratic? Well maybe yes maybe no. The relevant question is: Is europe and america democratic?
You have right to vote your representatives. It is really nice, but do the repres. what they promised? No, unfortunatelly they do what they want after we elect them.
the only difference between europe&america and china is that we vote who will be our dictator. In our case the dictator is not one person, but one party.
"Democracy" - you fools -IS NOT measured by the ability of the public to vote on absolutely everything! Modern democracy is also about voting for reps. that can understand and appreciate the importance of this Treaty! This Treaty is vastly too important for the rest of the world, as well as Europe, to allow ignorant mobs "vote" in it!
My motner is not a bitch you evil cunt. Your mother is bitch fuck off an die you nazi creep. I am not elitist you dick fro brains. You so all euroskeptics are cunt scum padoes. Fuck off.
My mother is not a bitch you evil cunt. Your mother is bitch fuck off an die you nazi creep. I am not elitist you dick fr brains. You so all euroskeptics are cunt scum padoes. Fuck off. .
I really..really hate people who think all joining up and letting the elite rule us all is the best idea ever. This is Hitler's wet dream right here. I suppose you are pro-Israel too, and beLIEve in Islamic terror threats.
The European Union is nothing like Nazi Germanys occupation of Europe or Hitlers plans. Working together as a union we can deal with external threat better and cooperate internally more easily.
I support Israels right to exist, im against the illegal occupation of the land they stole in the westbank and gaza. The only way we can move forward is a two state solution and an end to the suffering of the palestinian people.
Islamic terrorism is real, the causes are debatable.
It's so sad. In early 2009 the final treaty will be ratified and all European states will cease to be nations in their own right, becoming instead 'Euro regions'.
I attended the rally in London. It was a poor turnout. I talk to people at work about this, and they just glaze over. They really don't seem to care at all! So strange! I wonder if they'll be first to complain after the door has been bolted. Please, keep fighting this, people.
That is total crap we remain independent nations after 2009. We have the right to determine our own foreign policy, how can a non independent state do that?
This kind of anti european lies and scare mongering about the treaty is so very pointless. As you say most dont care about this issue because it makes little difference to them.
The treaty for the first time says how member states can leave the union.
Plz every1 try to stick to main question posed by title of this video, i.e. "Will new EU Constitution / Treaty and lack of referendum by Gordon Brown diminish our democracy?". Thnx. :-)
The answer is NO. We have a parliamentary democracy that means MPs and the Prime Minister make decissions on our behalf.. for Christ sake we dont live in Ireland or Switzerland.
no we are not switzerland. however we may soon become like them. we are the most eurosceptic country in the eu and london is a major financial district. switzerland has a free trade agreement with the eu which is exactly what britain should have
Switzerland is neutral and doesnt get involved in world affairs. Attacking them is like attacking the red cross.. wrong in almost everyones opinion.
Great britain has and always will play a major role on the world stage.. we cant be like Switzerland is. With a population of 60 million.. "direct democracy" is impossible.
lol most power remains in parliament, in the hands of the people we elect. They dont give alot of power away to Brussels. Almost all the problems we face in the Uk today are to blame on our own government not the EUropean Union.. even when it involves europe, its usualy our own choices and fault.
Such as mass immigration, the European convention on human rights etc. Labours choices, not Brussels.
clearly more referendums are needed. we should have a parliment for the day to day running of the country and for things like foreign policy and the military. major decisions should be given to referendums
we cant have our foreign policy decided in referendums. Especially acts of war or not good lord.
A referendum on our membership of the European Union, and a referendum on us joining the Euro is fine.. but we have a parliamentary democracy that works well.
Referendum of this that and the other would make government impossible. Is ok for switzerland.. they do nothing important apart from peace work.
im saying that things that happen once and can have irreversible consequences should be given to the public and things that just need running rather than major decisions require the government
LOL? You have obviously not thought it necessary to bother to read even a condensed version of the EU constitution. If you had then you would know that what you said is complete bullshit. The European Freedom Of Movement act means individual nations cannot have their own immigration policies. Our own MPs signed these rights away. Check your facts, you smug little ahole. Lies such as those you posted are dangerous, they distort the truth. Do some reading. Fucking LOL my arse.
There are exceptions to the right to work in EU countries for citizens of new EU member states. A clause allows a transition period of 2-7 years where limits can be imposed. Britain did this for Romania and Bulgaria, but not Poland and the other 9 countries that joined in the past few years.
Germany and France imposed limits for most Eastern European nations that joined including Poland. It was ENTIRELY the choice of the British government to allow full access to our own labour market.
lol, wrong! The most Highest section of Parliament in Britain (The House of Lord,) is comprised entirely by unelected members, the Head of State for Britain is unelected and yes I agree. THe Government is too blame...for joining the EU!
Well i agree the house of lords needs major reform, and while they are the "upper house" they do not have alot of power anymore. The commons can overrule the house of lords when and if needed. Look at USA, they have people who run government departments that dont get elected, simply selected by the president and rubber stamped. Atleast our ministers are accountable to the voters.
Having a monarchy is great for Britain, if the Queen had to run for office today, shed win.
Excuse me mr. British Watcher, everyone from the secretary of state to The treasaury secretary, Appointment to a federal judge post is ratified by the senate. All (yes all) appointments by the presidents are ratified by congress.
I think u will find that is what i said. people are selected for government posts by the president and have to be rubber stamped by congress. They are not elected by the people, no one voted for Donald Rumsfeld.
Which is exactly the same case with the EU system. The Parliament and council are elected by the Europea people, they go on to appoint and approve the commission.
well yes i understand your point, but do you want a belgian, a latvian, a dane, or a polish bloke making the decisions that directly affect the british people. Whereas in america, Americans make decisions on behalf of americans. Our consitution has a famous quote its "We the People, by the people & for the people". Thats what a democracy is.
There is so much money and corruption in American politics its pretty hard to call it a democracy these days, but i accept its very different having a person from another nation make decissions. However they have very limited power, the national parliaments remain the dominant law makers
Its the same process though, Europeans elect the national governments and MEPs who go on to choose the people that run the commission.
The powers given to brussels can be taken back if needed
Our membership of the EU has helped improve our trade with Europe and increased our influence on the world stage. Britain no longer has an empire, it no longer has the most powerful navy on the planet.
Different EU nations have strong relations with other parts of the world. Like the Spanish and Portugese with South America, France with certain African / mid east nations, Germany has close ties with Russia.
This gives us an extra layer of protection as we are all European Union citizens.
Then ofcourse we come together and speak as one and have huge influence, close to that of the USA, and indeed in many places more say as we have bigger trade and economic ties with them.
Britain has no influence over Iran. Over 25% of Irans trade is with the EU, sanctions imposed on them by the EU would cripple their economy. When the British sailors were captured the EU backed us up and demanded their release.
EUs demands were more of a threat to Iran than the USA and Britain moaning.
When the UK electorate vote a government into power we are entrusting them with all our rights for a short period. At the end of that period we expect these rights to be returned to us undiminished for us to pass to the next government that we elect. Governments should NEVER give away our rights without our express consent.
Yet they have, and the biggest shift in power took place under the last conservative government.. Who also refused to hold a referendum on the treaties.
We elect a government and they are the ones that make treaties, For example they decide to invade Iraq and ruin Britains interests in the middle east.. its their choice not the publics.
Look up this video on YouTube. "Tony Benn speaks in favour of a referendum". Tony Benn (a truely honest and principled polititian) talks about how the EU Constitution/Treaty will destroy our democracy.
I think democracy is being destroyed. If I don't like what the government does then at the next election I can "kick" them by voting for someone else. This is how democray works. How can we "kick" or make the EU overlords afraid of us? Gordon Brown is taking our voice away.
Well Im888 you can vote for a anti EU party in the next election. But the main parties support the union. SNP, labour, lib dems even the Conservatives do. They all know the European Union is good for Britain.
Democracy was destroyed more when the EU was founded.. not this little treaty. Its laughable the excuses the Conservatives come up with when they had no referendum.
LOL! I'm not anti-EU, but I do feel like all accountablilty is being lost. If I don't like the government I can try to boot them out, yes, but how on earth do I get at the EU folks if I don't like what they are doing!!
I do fear Gordon Brown is destroying our democracy. When I vote in a General Election I believe this should enable the elected party to run this country according to their principles and ideals. But if so much power is handed over to to the federation of eu countries then my vote becomes meaningless.
ViewUK.. not much power is being handed over to the EU. very little will have an effect on this country and you wont notice any difference.
Ask yourself why all the tories keep saying is "You promised us a referendum". The fact they are not raising specific concerns about this treaty suggests they know its nota serious threat.
Wow! TheBritishWatcher, you give your opinion very decidedly! I am curious ... are you a politics student or something, or a party activist? Cuz you seem like you have read the Treaty if you state that "not much power is being handed over", "little effect on this country" and that I "wont notice any difference". Let us know. :-)
Im certainly not a party activist, but i am interested in these sorts of things and a strong European Union is good for us all. The plain fact is The Conservative party are playing party politics with this issue instead of focusing on whats right for Britain.
They want a referendum because they know it will be lost as people will just do a protest vote against Europe. They want to embarass Labour not protect this countries interests.
You can find the text to the reform treaty on the FCO website, although the final agreed text from the summit the other day wont be on there yet.
We lose the power of veto in about 60 areas and most of those do not matter, we have the built in protections for the specific areas so i dont see what the problem is.
If all other EU nations can accept this change, do you really think its going to have a HUGE impact on our countries?
just because you may not notice someone stealing from you does that make it okay. i dont care if previous treaties have taken more away it doesnt excuse giving europe more power than it already has, which is too much already, if the government has our interests at heart it will go back to just being a free trade area.
How do you know whats best for this country? Britains interests are more protected as part of the European Union which is the biggest economic block on the planet.
It offers an extra layer of protection that a simple free trade agreement does not do. European Nations have different influences around the world.. us being a union means we can benefit from that.
When Iran captured the British sailors awhile ago there was not alot Britain could do alone, we needed allies.
Now lets see we are part of NATO, but that alliance primarly covers attacks in Europe or North america, British troops in Iraq dont operate as part of "NATO".
Then theres the United States, which has no influence over Iran except military action. The United Nations which has China and Russia watering things down and protecting Iran.
iran knew that if they didnt release the sailors they would have more than half the worlds military spendings worth of force coming straight for them. iran couldnt beat britain and it definately couldnt beat britain and its allies. it is not force that makes america and britain strong its rather the fear of the use of such force that means we can tell other countries what to do.
You are foolish, U think the USA and Britain want to get bogged down in another war? You think Irans response wouldnt hurt British troops currently stationed in Iraq or our allies such as Israel?
Force was not an option and Iran knew it, otherwise theyd of never risked acting up like that. Military force would of got our hostages killed. Diplomacy was the only way forward.
all we needed to do was use some threats and iran would have given them up and begged for forgiveness and if they didn't then we would have used force and the world would know not to mess with us
"begged for forgiveness" lmaoo u are crazy. If they feared us they wouldnt of taken the soldiers in the first place.. they knew they could get away with holding them.
We have 5000 troops in iraq that could get slaughtered if the Shiites rebelled against us.. who just so happen to like the Iranians. an attack on them would go very well :|
If we went in to try and recuse them.. it woulda beena bloodbath. Diplomacy was the only option. US doesnt have diplomatic ties with Iran. EU does
they had to release them eventually. if they had killed them that would have been an act of war. and if they just held on to them and refused to give in. tehran would have been a smoking crater
This is one of the problems anti Europeans have, they fail to see reality and live in the past. Britain cant just go around anywhere in the world and order them to do things, nor can we threaten military force against countries such as Iran. Even the United States of America is currently bogged down in Iraq and in no position to start a full scale invasion of Iran.
Attacks on Iran would piss off the Russians and Chinese.. not a great idea. try and look at things a bit more seriously.
dont forget we have allies in the area that just want an excuse to war with iran. israel has the most advanced army in the middle east. whereas iran has russian crap
lmao, they could of held on to them alot longer than a few weeks. They could of treated them alot worse than they treated them.
If you think Britain was in a position to start a war with Iran you are sadly mistaken.. this had to be handed with tact and diplomacy not go in guns blazing leaving them all dead.
EU pressure helped, failure to see that is failure to accept the obvious.
I agree they had to release them sometime, but it could of been far worse for us. Lol we cant just go bombing a country of 70 million people because they capture a few of our sailors.
the fact we have 5000 troops in Southern Iraq is a good reason why we cant do something like that.. wed of got slaughtered for such an attack.
The commonwealth doesnt respond on such issues and apart from India, Australia and Canada has very little influence.
Who did that leave? The European Union. The biggest trading block in the world and yes Irans number 1 trading partner(over 25% of all Irans trade). Serious sanctions by the European Union would cripple Irans economy.
So it cant hurt when the EU demands their immediate release can it?
"The European Union repeats its call for the immediate and unconditional release of the British Royal Naval personnel."
"The leaders of Iran have to understand this is not a bilateral issue" "The government of Iran has to understand that whatever happens to any citizens of the EU ... happens to the entire union." - Javier Solana, the EU's foreign policy chief,
oh and when u give someone something or invite them in they are not "stealing" :)
The Bulgarian nurses held by Libya for years and were sentenced to death is a good example. A few months after Bulgaria joined the EU, France and the EU put pressure on libya and offered them a few carrots and in return the bulgarian nurses were released.
A free trade agreement doesnt allow us to operate on the world stage as one. Its not enough. Thats what makes the European a good thing :)
They were not bad people, just because some court in Libya believes they were does not mean anything. Yes they can now walk free all over europe because of the European Union.. Thats a good thing in my book :)
Its an extra layer of protection to back up each other. We are all citizens of the European Union, as much as you may not like to accept it, it does mean something.
also i agree that the police should cooperate. there would be no need for membership fees or a european parliment or any of the other eu organisations that waste money. no need for eu constituions or other wastes of time. and countries would be able to control their own immigration and agricultural policies
The EU has to be more than just a trade agreement and co operation between countries. For Europe to play a lead role on this planet we have to combine forces and work together.. Its the only way we can get good deals when dealing with large states like China or the USA.
The fact we are citizens of the European Union offers us more protection. The EU is the only way forward to have total peace and security in Europe. :)
and wat is better britain having a lead role or europe. it is our military strength and involvement in the war on terror that gives us a say. not to mention our permanent seat on the security council
Strong alliance with the USA, the commonwealth and yes our seat on the UN security council is all important.. But being part of the European Union is very important aswell. Britain doing a trade deal with China, clearly china has the upper hand.. China doing a deal with thier biggest trading partner EU and we have far more of a say.
We can help encourage reform in nations far more than we can when trading alone. NATO, UN, commonwealth dont do trade deals with 3rd parties for us.
this database will have information on the person including a picture and details on the passport. there should be a barcode on the passport that allows security at airport to quickly check that it matches up. No immigration from any countries outside the database should be allowed. this would stop fake passports completely.
The eu should be a free trade agreement, but i do concede that some things other than just that would help the uk. There should be a passport database of all countries in the eu and any other country that wants in.
The EU will destroy this country. We have been to war with France more than any other country on Earth, and now we are letting them write our own constitution??? Mad, barking mad.
Vote for a referendum on the treaty, neé constitution.
The Magna Carta state's the right's that every English man has, peaceful protesting should come to an end The Star Chamber needs to be reactivated but not just for criminal's for politician's & traitor's as well.
Is this advert being shown on national television? I hope so, because most people have no idea what this treaty, neé constiution will do to this country. We need to raise awareness.
Having a referendum on the "treaty" will just result in people voting in favour or against the European Union, most people wont bother reading the legal text of the documents.
Have a referendum on staying in or leaving the Union, the majority would vote to stay in because the cost to the economy would be HUGE if we left.
These anti europeans dont like to even consider that.. just out out out. Very dangerous policy.
You are mistaken, even Norway which is not part of the European Union has to apply with EU standards and regulations, they pay billions to the EU for being allowed access to our markets.
Alot of regulations are for consumer protection. Do you think Britain can get a good deal when dealing with China alone or a better one when speaking with the EU as awhole is main trading partner?
We have alot more influence in the union than out of it.
would you want Britain to be isolated and alone in Europe next to a huge superstate the EU which we have no influence over?
Would that not be a rather bigger threat to Britains security than the EU telling us to do a few things that we are against but dont cause serious problems?
We have nukes, we're part of nato, we're part of the commonwealth, and europe exports more into britain than we do into them. Europe needs us more than we need them.
We have a set on the un. We will never be alone in the world. We can work with europe but we don't have to get married.
Indeed we are part of Nato and the Commonwealth, but those two have their weaknesses. NATO is simply an alliance which includes most members of the EU anyway which is there to protect western interests. Its not a trading / economic block. The commonwealth sadly isnt very strong today and does not offer us what the EU does.
The Commonwealth doesnt speak with one voice like the EU can. We need the EU and they need us, which is why they accept the reform treaty redlines.
The Redlines are not Rubbish they are there to protect British interests. Do you really think the Germans and French want to lose their national identity? The EU allows us to remain independent sovereign states at the same time as working together through the union for all our benefit.
Britain, France and Germany use to be major world powers but now with the rise of India, China and the strenght of the USA we alone are weak.
NATO did keep Europe safe and defeat the communist threat from the USSR but it didnt do this alone. The Stability created by European countries working together since the end of WW2 kept europe strong instead of fighting each other.
The Treaty of Rome which was signed in 1957 created what is now the EU. That treaty helped the economies of those nations and made them stronger. This did play a role in keeping Europe safe.
A nightmare??? How can such a dream become a nightmare? People from different cultures, different backgrounds coming together and sharing! Why fear Europe? Europe has great ideals of democracy and all EU countries have common values as a social justice, Europe can be the force for Democracy in the world!
Europe is a great dream of unity and democracy! The European Parliament and Commission have done great things and Britain can contribute to making a united Europe for peace and democracy in the world! Europe ca become the power of the future united together in our diversity! LONG LIVE THE EUROPEAN DREAM!
You are clearly a dilusional idealist and you will be hit hard by reality in a decade or so when the 'dream' of the European Superstate turns out to be nightmare.
it is a nightmar they are doing the seem in the usa they are trying to make a nwo look up the north american union they only way you can rule the world is not by Democracy but by dictatorship also look up browns nwo speeh its on here
Democracy? Done Great things? they have not had the accounts signed off for 12 years ?? it is so corrupt - they need to take the people with them for the dream - and when asked the people say NO!!
also remember half the euro commision is either a former ussr apparachick or been convicted of some crime mainly fraud including the person in charge of the anti fraud agency
In this video we saw The Houses of Parliament being blown up. I would love to do that to Brusselles! Labour promised The British People a referendum and should stick to that. Like Tony Blair Gordon Brown is just another dictator. Who says The British People will say "NO" anyway? On the other hand we could all practice our "Heil Merkel" salute ready for when that bitch takes over!
lmao they are not committed to it by law.. Most of the things parties promise in the election campaigns dont always turn out to be true.
There are a number of differences between the constitution and the new reform treaty.. we will have to wait for the final text to be agreed to before we know for sure what it will do.
I would like to see a referendum on the EU itself. With a little education of what we actually gain the majority of people would support remaining in the EU.
The EU has stolen this piece of Beethoven from me as it is. I hate that there is a threat that they may steal whats left of our national sovereignty as well and everyone will just mumble through saying "Mustn't grumble". It is a real tragedy people don't realise how serious this is.
ColonelRoss111 3 months ago
The EU are a bunch of thieving cunts
sparkymarkyshaw 7 months ago
i love how this video clip has been taken so far out of context. When it is actually supposed to be against far right parties.
EuropeanBrit 10 months ago
Democracy? in England? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
phatcontrolla 1 year ago
I love Europe but I can't stand the EU. The most detestable bunch of self serving, culture destroying wasters ever to label themselves democratic.
Still you can't expect any better from them, they are hardly going to close themselves down, our own governments on the other hand.....
perfacetus 1 year ago
@perfacetus Their is nothing wrong with the EEC or the Laws, just as Per usual The Laws are interpreted by British politicians and their stands the bug barer!
7Vails 1 year ago
@7Vails
There are plenty of things wrong with the EEC. The desire for a single political entity being number 1. The high cost to the UK and Germany being number 2. The fact that it knows none of the people of Europe want to be joined but they do it anyway number 3. CAP number 4
I won't bore you by continuing.
perfacetus 1 year ago
oh, will this happen with the Parliament? well, a kaliphat doen't need such instutuion ;)
czechguy78 2 years ago
See whats happend here is the people who made this ad just stole footage from the movie V for Vendetta.
Radicalpong 2 years ago
After the Irish people said NO to Lisbon. Brown, merkel, sarkozy & the rest of the hypocrites will try everything possible not to have anymore referendums.
ZeusZol0 2 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
NEWSFLASH ! A poll released this week shows that a massive 77% of Germans want a referendum on the Lisbon treaty/constitution...will they get one ?
Anyone want to demonstrate against the un-elected commission in Brussels ?
Think again and google :
EUROPEAN GENDARMERIE FORCE (EGF)
5,000 Gendarmerie
the EU's Paramilitary
coming to a street near you and me
in the last days of democracy.
Spenner56 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
long live the EU and im from the UK
hahha
trico0712 3 years ago
Your crazy.
MegaBrits 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"The EU can lawfully suppress political criticism of its institutions and of leading public figures «( European Court of Justice ruling 2001 ).
The European Charter of Fundamental Rights (art.2,passage 2) states that the death penalty can be used for « rioting,civil upheaval & during war ».
However, in the same Charter ,the right of EU citizens to vote has been left out.... why !
EUROPEANS ! Vote for a EU-sceptical party in the EU parliament elections in June & save all our democracies !
Spenner56 3 years ago
the british watcher, please research more thoroughly before making a comment, do you not know that the british government is actually powerless to opose laws that come from the eu, they get there papers and told what to vote and if they opose it they will be thrown out, camerons a two faced twat because he claims to be against the eu but kisses there arses once he's in the euro chambre, he criticises hedge funds but still absorbs vast funds for himself and his party. dont believe what they say
01101100d 3 years ago 4
@01101100d The British watcher is right you are wrong! what you have transcribed applies to Norway though who is not a member state but has a trade agrement.
7Vails 1 year ago
@7Vails How is he right, i cant see his point, this is an old discussion. How does my point relate to Norway. Thanks
01101100d 1 year ago
i have read from a trusted source that the eu has blamed the british media for irelands no vote, true or not, its just an excuse to ban us from publishing anti eu news as part of there c-274/99 law, they now want to make ireland vote again - and again, till they give the right answer said the french. fucking retards, has anyone watched this new eu channel, it makes me laugh, most of the time they talk pretending to convince themselves and each other they are democratic. plz watch my campaign vid
01101100d 3 years ago 2
Ireland said NO, and NO means NO. But Mr. Barroso, Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Sarkozy doesn't know what DEMOCRACY is.
Donaumonarchie 3 years ago 4
If it wasn´t for the EU in the 70s and 80s , Ireland would still be a bloody farming country .. just as a reminder
Phunker1 3 years ago
get a grip you prat, Britain will never raise the EU flag
glynwalker2008 3 years ago 10
god why dont people care or relizie the lisbon treaty is the EU constition and the ratifican processe needs to stop Ireland said no and No means no
DontStopMeNow11 3 years ago 4
the U.N. makes a show of opposing the death penalty. Behind the scenes: read the fine print in the Lisbon Cons Treaty the E.U. has enabled them to use the death penalty in 'war, riots and upheaval'. They have opposed the death penalty as a punishment for obscene crimes such as serial murder, they are legalising it for citizens who oppose the EU/NWO. Why 'riots and upheaval'? Are they expecting opposition from large sectors of the people of the community. Makes you wonder what kontrols they plan.
Greg260146 3 years ago 3
The EU's original aims have long since been accomplished. Trade has been restored, America is no longer this huge economic powerhouse threatening the whole of Europe and the threat of war has gone. That's all it was really set up to sort out.
DavidTL 3 years ago
We will miss you..It was fun while it lasted.France and Germany could not do it with conquest,but they did it with the vote...America:(
chufuss 3 years ago
Good luck Eire - Get the truth about oppression and the denial of democracy that is the centralised EU to enough people to vote NO & regain your liberty.
Membership of the EU has been a catastrophy for Eire raising hopes and provided a brief boom just to be used as a bribe to dupe the British. The EU now has little more chance of feeding iteslf without import than Eire had in the hungry 40s. The wars of disassociation are coming sooner rather than later and will be hideous - Vote NO leave NOW.
Greg260146 3 years ago 3
The abuse of Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" by the eu (which I do NOT recognise) is appalling!
The composer himself would probably abhor it's improper use! Beethoven, once an admirer of Bonaparte (who can certainly be considered as an early europeist), changed his mind when the Corsican tyrant revealed his fascist attitudes.
For instance: it was said that rumours on (then) Rear-Admiral Lord Nelson's death at the battle of Aboukir Bay inspired him in the composition of "Eroica's" Funeral March.
Monarchist1952 3 years ago
Hmm from your comments i dont see how you have such objections to the tune being used for the European Union.
The European Union is not a dictatorship or run by a tyrant. It brings together european nations and expands peace. Granted if the EU turns to "The Dark Side" im sure Beethoven would be against such a tune, but wed all be against such a union.
The only way the EU is going to turn into this dark superstate some predict is if we Europeans allow it. I cant see many supporters of it.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
How can you say what Beethoven would have said.
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago 2
Fuck off dickhead. You euroskeptic cunt. Now we find what a bunch of offensive shiheads you scum are, fuck off. Duickhead fuck off. I support democracy you are a nationalist not a democrat pull the other one cunt.
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
if you support the EU then by definition you do NOT support democracy
the EU is busy abolishing national parliamentary democracy and moving ALL legislative powers to unelected politicians in Brussels
the lisbon treaty is a direct attack on democracy
mark4m56 3 years ago 2
You are totally mistaken. The European Union certainly isnt perfect and there needs to be major reforms and alot more openess however look at Britains democracy
We have an unelected Queen (who i support) that not a single British citizen has voted for. We have an unelected house of lords which votes on and edits our laws. We are hardly perfect
Now the EU isnt as undemocratic as some of you anti Europeans would like to pretend. So dont go claiming we are anti Democracy for supporting the EU
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Now lets look at the European Union..
EUROPEANS elect NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS. The people of those countries can vote for parties that would pull a nation out of the union.. (such as UKIP).
EUROPEANS elect the MEPs who represent them in the EU parliament. (Like we elect MPs)
The European Parliament and the National governments of the EU decide who runs the European Commission and they act like the Civil Service does here in the UK.
I dont see the major problem
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
why dont they give the people what they want whitch is a referndum on the lisbon treaty whitch is one and the same as the eu constituion
sonycamera111 3 years ago
Because people wont vote on this treaty they will simply vote no because certain media tell them to, such as The SUN. Most people dont know what the EU constitution would of done, let alone this Lisbon treaty.
If you ask the people of the Uk which would they of rather had a referendum on.. "the Iraq war or Lisbon treaty" i bet the vast majority would say Iraq.
There is a very big group of people in the UK who hate the EU because they dont understand it, but most people dont even care about it
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Tell me Sony, what is it in this treaty you are so strongly against? I want specifics not just the "wrong direction or we were promised a referendum" crap. Tell me what you hate abouyt this treaty, not just a general moan about the European union either.
It seems to me the most people calling for a referendum simply want to leave the EU... well call for a referendum on British membership of the EU not a treaty. Parliament makes our laws and treaties, NOT people.
This isnt switzerland
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
"Referendum Crap" And please tell me what is crap about promising a referendum in an election manifesto, campaigning heavily on the a promise only to turn around after winning the election and deny the people something they believed they would be given
Lies
Betrayal
Trickery
FASCISM
Just some that spring to mind but of course I may very well have misunderstood what the UK labour party meant by 'Referendum Promise'...
if you cannot see the dangers of the EU I will suggest you read history.
VVendettaz 3 years ago 6
Labour should of never promised to of held a referendum on the constitution in the first place, it was only because they needed The Suns support to win an election thry caved in. Referendums are a very bad idea as like with the Irish vote it has solved nothing because people end up voting no for things that are not even linked to the treaty.
Labour have broken many promises.. Remember "Tough on crime, Tough on the causes of crime". "Education, Education, Education"... Breaking promises isnt new
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Your a brainwashed socialist automaton. Your ilk are among the most dangerous people on the planet because you end up destroying humanities inbuilt desire for true freedom of thought and choice.
You answer is a complete insult to every democratic standard. Your typical of someone that doesn't realise their a fascist. I do not say this on a whim, because I have read a number of your comments.
I suggest you stop casting everyone as Sun readers. The fact you do leads me to believe you read it.
VVendettaz 3 years ago
lol well the Rupert Murdoch empire which is strongly against the EU isnt the only part of the media that only spreads anti EU hate and ive never said anyone that hates the EU must be a sun reader, i accept there are many problems with the union
However to try and claim the union is doing away with human rights and freedom is total crap. The European Union has advanced Western standards east to the borders of Russia and beyond
European powers are weak alone but together we help shape the world
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
@TheBritishWatcher No you did not but if you had I still would have agreed with you. because thats about right ! British people seam to have made the EU, the Boggy man ! God only knows why! Perhaps because of the stiff upper lip, They need to blame somebody for the mess but it cant be Britain!
7Vails 1 year ago
Well there are many legitimate concerns about the european union but i agree people do just blame things on europe. It is a lot easier for a country like Britain which pays huge amounts every year into the EU budget than for many of the smaller EU nations who actually get more money back than they pay in.
There are many problems and we just do not seem to be able to get change. It also attempts to grab too much power. US states have more differences / rights in some cases than the EU does.
TheBritishWatcher 1 year ago
As for the dangers there are risks but we have to remember Britain always has a veto on major issues. Brussels may decide some of our laws but it is the British Parliament that rules this land and implements them. That means aslong as we dont elect a crazy government we always have the ability to block things
The EU understands Britain doesnt want full integration. They are ok with giving us many opt outs and allowing the rest of the union to progress. Like in this treaty , euro, schengen etc
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
@TheBritishWatcher Well if you don't want me to mention anything about not being able to have a referendum and concentrate on the lisbon treaty then i shall. The media tell us that it will 'streamline' EU decision making processes but what does this actually mean? It means the EU having power over our criminal systems (for example taking away trial by jury to match with the continents style of justice), the NHS and even oddly enough, seing as it is only for economic purposes, home affairs!
drmcgoo 1 year ago
i couldnt agree more mate
samdung91 3 years ago
Fuck off then.
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
no it's a public web page and it's a free country for the time we have left anyway we need a referendum but you dont under stand a tall how much this country has been coned
samdung91 3 years ago
Up with the euro. Stand up for a free and united europe. Only the chinese want to kill the EU.
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
thats wrong the reasons are that if we stay in the eu we will no longer be a nation we will have become a complete new entity european britain would sece to excist to the fact that the eu is be comming more like the sovet union every single day and we didnt sign for europle for that we signned for the commen market only and we were cond and dont tell me i dont know what i am talking about because i have been following politics since 1997
tradingplaces400 3 years ago
It is nothing like the soviet union. It is as soviet as the USA. .
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
it total is you will see
samdung91 3 years ago
The battles in the EU Parliament goes on:
watch?v=qkHK_EFfTCM
europarl 4 years ago
good advert m8 it send the message lowed and clear
tradingplaces400 4 years ago
oh do shut up neozykl! its our country not yours wtf do you know about our country and we dont still hold ww2 against the germans so shut the fuck up the bombs are showing that gordan brown is destroying our laws and democracy its not anything to do with the bloody germans
trico0712 4 years ago
vote UKIP lol
trico0712 4 years ago
no vote engand demicrates
tradingplaces400 3 years ago
the EU is basically a western soviet union
pdsk8 4 years ago 3
No it is not. It is a democratic free union of nations. No one gets locked up like they did in the soveit union for political views. That is like saying that the USA is a western soviet union.
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
our democracy is being dismantled and legislative powers moved from national elected parliaments to unelected Eu-crats
mark4m56 3 years ago
Fuck off paedo. You are offensive cunt fuck off an die. You evil mad shit.
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
Admit it, you choose the german version of the eu anthem to make it sound evil. I know you kind of folks. And these explosions, just like nazi rocket attacks in WWII.
now, however, isn't it interesting that in the title "don't let Brown destroy our Democracy", the word "Democracy" is written in gigantic letters, while the word "our" is hardly redable. Really interesting effect indeed.
neoZykl 4 years ago
Is EU democratic? Well maybe yes maybe no. The relevant question is: Is europe and america democratic?
You have right to vote your representatives. It is really nice, but do the repres. what they promised? No, unfortunatelly they do what they want after we elect them.
talonCZ 4 years ago
the only difference between europe&america and china is that we vote who will be our dictator. In our case the dictator is not one person, but one party.
talonCZ 4 years ago
"Democracy" - you fools -IS NOT measured by the ability of the public to vote on absolutely everything! Modern democracy is also about voting for reps. that can understand and appreciate the importance of this Treaty! This Treaty is vastly too important for the rest of the world, as well as Europe, to allow ignorant mobs "vote" in it!
EUamerican 4 years ago
"Allowing ignorant mobs to vote"
You sound like an 18th century nobleman.
Would the vote only be given to the landed gentry if you had your way?
kzearo 4 years ago
Elitist son of a bitch
we the peoples do NOT WANT our democracies being given away to EU elite
mark4m56 3 years ago
My motner is not a bitch you evil cunt. Your mother is bitch fuck off an die you nazi creep. I am not elitist you dick fro brains. You so all euroskeptics are cunt scum padoes. Fuck off.
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
you're the nazi because you want to override the will of the people
mark4m56 3 years ago
My mother is not a bitch you evil cunt. Your mother is bitch fuck off an die you nazi creep. I am not elitist you dick fr brains. You so all euroskeptics are cunt scum padoes. Fuck off. .
KNOWYOUNOW 3 years ago
The people of Eastern Europe brought down the Soviet Union and the people of Western Europe will bring down the European Union.
It's going to happen...
andymurray2007 4 years ago
I really..really hate people who think all joining up and letting the elite rule us all is the best idea ever. This is Hitler's wet dream right here. I suppose you are pro-Israel too, and beLIEve in Islamic terror threats.
Northern91 4 years ago
The European Union is nothing like Nazi Germanys occupation of Europe or Hitlers plans. Working together as a union we can deal with external threat better and cooperate internally more easily.
I support Israels right to exist, im against the illegal occupation of the land they stole in the westbank and gaza. The only way we can move forward is a two state solution and an end to the suffering of the palestinian people.
Islamic terrorism is real, the causes are debatable.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
It's so sad. In early 2009 the final treaty will be ratified and all European states will cease to be nations in their own right, becoming instead 'Euro regions'.
I attended the rally in London. It was a poor turnout. I talk to people at work about this, and they just glaze over. They really don't seem to care at all! So strange! I wonder if they'll be first to complain after the door has been bolted. Please, keep fighting this, people.
numbskullandy 4 years ago 3
That is total crap we remain independent nations after 2009. We have the right to determine our own foreign policy, how can a non independent state do that?
This kind of anti european lies and scare mongering about the treaty is so very pointless. As you say most dont care about this issue because it makes little difference to them.
The treaty for the first time says how member states can leave the union.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Plz every1 try to stick to main question posed by title of this video, i.e. "Will new EU Constitution / Treaty and lack of referendum by Gordon Brown diminish our democracy?". Thnx. :-)
ViewPointUK 4 years ago
The answer is NO. We have a parliamentary democracy that means MPs and the Prime Minister make decissions on our behalf.. for Christ sake we dont live in Ireland or Switzerland.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
no we are not switzerland. however we may soon become like them. we are the most eurosceptic country in the eu and london is a major financial district. switzerland has a free trade agreement with the eu which is exactly what britain should have
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
Switzerland is neutral and doesnt get involved in world affairs. Attacking them is like attacking the red cross.. wrong in almost everyones opinion.
Great britain has and always will play a major role on the world stage.. we cant be like Switzerland is. With a population of 60 million.. "direct democracy" is impossible.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
maybe but we cannot simply give all power to the government some power must remain in the peoples control. such as the power to give power away
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
lol most power remains in parliament, in the hands of the people we elect. They dont give alot of power away to Brussels. Almost all the problems we face in the Uk today are to blame on our own government not the EUropean Union.. even when it involves europe, its usualy our own choices and fault.
Such as mass immigration, the European convention on human rights etc. Labours choices, not Brussels.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
clearly more referendums are needed. we should have a parliment for the day to day running of the country and for things like foreign policy and the military. major decisions should be given to referendums
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
we cant have our foreign policy decided in referendums. Especially acts of war or not good lord.
A referendum on our membership of the European Union, and a referendum on us joining the Euro is fine.. but we have a parliamentary democracy that works well.
Referendum of this that and the other would make government impossible. Is ok for switzerland.. they do nothing important apart from peace work.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
im saying that things that happen once and can have irreversible consequences should be given to the public and things that just need running rather than major decisions require the government
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
This does not have irreversible consequences, the Reform treaty finally sets out a method for countries to leave the Union.
its not irreversible.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
I hope your right because I'm not spending any longer than needed under the EU's damn flag
PriestOfFilm 4 years ago
But they are our OWN problems, the EU should respect as a national power and let us deal with our problems - RIGHT OR WRONG
PriestOfFilm 4 years ago
Almost all of the problems we face today we can blame on our own government, not Brussels.
What are they to blame for?
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
LOL? You have obviously not thought it necessary to bother to read even a condensed version of the EU constitution. If you had then you would know that what you said is complete bullshit. The European Freedom Of Movement act means individual nations cannot have their own immigration policies. Our own MPs signed these rights away. Check your facts, you smug little ahole. Lies such as those you posted are dangerous, they distort the truth. Do some reading. Fucking LOL my arse.
numbskullandy 4 years ago
There are exceptions to the right to work in EU countries for citizens of new EU member states. A clause allows a transition period of 2-7 years where limits can be imposed. Britain did this for Romania and Bulgaria, but not Poland and the other 9 countries that joined in the past few years.
Germany and France imposed limits for most Eastern European nations that joined including Poland. It was ENTIRELY the choice of the British government to allow full access to our own labour market.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
lol, wrong! The most Highest section of Parliament in Britain (The House of Lord,) is comprised entirely by unelected members, the Head of State for Britain is unelected and yes I agree. THe Government is too blame...for joining the EU!
DavidTL 4 years ago
Well i agree the house of lords needs major reform, and while they are the "upper house" they do not have alot of power anymore. The commons can overrule the house of lords when and if needed. Look at USA, they have people who run government departments that dont get elected, simply selected by the president and rubber stamped. Atleast our ministers are accountable to the voters.
Having a monarchy is great for Britain, if the Queen had to run for office today, shed win.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Excuse me mr. British Watcher, everyone from the secretary of state to The treasaury secretary, Appointment to a federal judge post is ratified by the senate. All (yes all) appointments by the presidents are ratified by congress.
vinnyflintoff 4 years ago
I think u will find that is what i said. people are selected for government posts by the president and have to be rubber stamped by congress. They are not elected by the people, no one voted for Donald Rumsfeld.
Which is exactly the same case with the EU system. The Parliament and council are elected by the Europea people, they go on to appoint and approve the commission.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
well yes i understand your point, but do you want a belgian, a latvian, a dane, or a polish bloke making the decisions that directly affect the british people. Whereas in america, Americans make decisions on behalf of americans. Our consitution has a famous quote its "We the People, by the people & for the people". Thats what a democracy is.
vinnyflintoff 4 years ago
There is so much money and corruption in American politics its pretty hard to call it a democracy these days, but i accept its very different having a person from another nation make decissions. However they have very limited power, the national parliaments remain the dominant law makers
Its the same process though, Europeans elect the national governments and MEPs who go on to choose the people that run the commission.
The powers given to brussels can be taken back if needed
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Our membership of the EU has helped improve our trade with Europe and increased our influence on the world stage. Britain no longer has an empire, it no longer has the most powerful navy on the planet.
Different EU nations have strong relations with other parts of the world. Like the Spanish and Portugese with South America, France with certain African / mid east nations, Germany has close ties with Russia.
This gives us an extra layer of protection as we are all European Union citizens.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Then ofcourse we come together and speak as one and have huge influence, close to that of the USA, and indeed in many places more say as we have bigger trade and economic ties with them.
Britain has no influence over Iran. Over 25% of Irans trade is with the EU, sanctions imposed on them by the EU would cripple their economy. When the British sailors were captured the EU backed us up and demanded their release.
EUs demands were more of a threat to Iran than the USA and Britain moaning.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
When the UK electorate vote a government into power we are entrusting them with all our rights for a short period. At the end of that period we expect these rights to be returned to us undiminished for us to pass to the next government that we elect. Governments should NEVER give away our rights without our express consent.
ViewPointUK 4 years ago
Yet they have, and the biggest shift in power took place under the last conservative government.. Who also refused to hold a referendum on the treaties.
We elect a government and they are the ones that make treaties, For example they decide to invade Iraq and ruin Britains interests in the middle east.. its their choice not the publics.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Look up this video on YouTube. "Tony Benn speaks in favour of a referendum". Tony Benn (a truely honest and principled polititian) talks about how the EU Constitution/Treaty will destroy our democracy.
ViewPointUK 4 years ago
Tony Benn has wacky comments on the Usa and Iraq aswell :)
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
I think democracy is being destroyed. If I don't like what the government does then at the next election I can "kick" them by voting for someone else. This is how democray works. How can we "kick" or make the EU overlords afraid of us? Gordon Brown is taking our voice away.
lml888s 4 years ago 2
Well Im888 you can vote for a anti EU party in the next election. But the main parties support the union. SNP, labour, lib dems even the Conservatives do. They all know the European Union is good for Britain.
Democracy was destroyed more when the EU was founded.. not this little treaty. Its laughable the excuses the Conservatives come up with when they had no referendum.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
LOL! I'm not anti-EU, but I do feel like all accountablilty is being lost. If I don't like the government I can try to boot them out, yes, but how on earth do I get at the EU folks if I don't like what they are doing!!
lml888s 4 years ago
Well thats simple. You can elect anti EU MEPs such as UKIP although thats counter productive if you want to try and get the EU to actually work.
You can elect an anti EU party which can take this country out of the EU.. although that would be a stupid thing for us all.
It is not like we hand over the keys of downing street to Brussels. The powers parliament can give, Parliament can take away.
And EVERYTHING is implemented by OUR parliament.. not Brussels.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
I do fear Gordon Brown is destroying our democracy. When I vote in a General Election I believe this should enable the elected party to run this country according to their principles and ideals. But if so much power is handed over to to the federation of eu countries then my vote becomes meaningless.
ViewUK 4 years ago
vote ukip
skulls23 4 years ago
ViewUK.. not much power is being handed over to the EU. very little will have an effect on this country and you wont notice any difference.
Ask yourself why all the tories keep saying is "You promised us a referendum". The fact they are not raising specific concerns about this treaty suggests they know its nota serious threat.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Wow! TheBritishWatcher, you give your opinion very decidedly! I am curious ... are you a politics student or something, or a party activist? Cuz you seem like you have read the Treaty if you state that "not much power is being handed over", "little effect on this country" and that I "wont notice any difference". Let us know. :-)
ViewUK 4 years ago
Im certainly not a party activist, but i am interested in these sorts of things and a strong European Union is good for us all. The plain fact is The Conservative party are playing party politics with this issue instead of focusing on whats right for Britain.
They want a referendum because they know it will be lost as people will just do a protest vote against Europe. They want to embarass Labour not protect this countries interests.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
You can find the text to the reform treaty on the FCO website, although the final agreed text from the summit the other day wont be on there yet.
We lose the power of veto in about 60 areas and most of those do not matter, we have the built in protections for the specific areas so i dont see what the problem is.
If all other EU nations can accept this change, do you really think its going to have a HUGE impact on our countries?
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
just because you may not notice someone stealing from you does that make it okay. i dont care if previous treaties have taken more away it doesnt excuse giving europe more power than it already has, which is too much already, if the government has our interests at heart it will go back to just being a free trade area.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
How do you know whats best for this country? Britains interests are more protected as part of the European Union which is the biggest economic block on the planet.
It offers an extra layer of protection that a simple free trade agreement does not do. European Nations have different influences around the world.. us being a union means we can benefit from that.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
how exactly are they protected
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
When Iran captured the British sailors awhile ago there was not alot Britain could do alone, we needed allies.
Now lets see we are part of NATO, but that alliance primarly covers attacks in Europe or North america, British troops in Iraq dont operate as part of "NATO".
Then theres the United States, which has no influence over Iran except military action. The United Nations which has China and Russia watering things down and protecting Iran.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
iran knew that if they didnt release the sailors they would have more than half the worlds military spendings worth of force coming straight for them. iran couldnt beat britain and it definately couldnt beat britain and its allies. it is not force that makes america and britain strong its rather the fear of the use of such force that means we can tell other countries what to do.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
You are foolish, U think the USA and Britain want to get bogged down in another war? You think Irans response wouldnt hurt British troops currently stationed in Iraq or our allies such as Israel?
Force was not an option and Iran knew it, otherwise theyd of never risked acting up like that. Military force would of got our hostages killed. Diplomacy was the only way forward.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
all we needed to do was use some threats and iran would have given them up and begged for forgiveness and if they didn't then we would have used force and the world would know not to mess with us
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
"begged for forgiveness" lmaoo u are crazy. If they feared us they wouldnt of taken the soldiers in the first place.. they knew they could get away with holding them.
We have 5000 troops in iraq that could get slaughtered if the Shiites rebelled against us.. who just so happen to like the Iranians. an attack on them would go very well :|
If we went in to try and recuse them.. it woulda beena bloodbath. Diplomacy was the only option. US doesnt have diplomatic ties with Iran. EU does
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
they had to release them eventually. if they had killed them that would have been an act of war. and if they just held on to them and refused to give in. tehran would have been a smoking crater
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
This is one of the problems anti Europeans have, they fail to see reality and live in the past. Britain cant just go around anywhere in the world and order them to do things, nor can we threaten military force against countries such as Iran. Even the United States of America is currently bogged down in Iraq and in no position to start a full scale invasion of Iran.
Attacks on Iran would piss off the Russians and Chinese.. not a great idea. try and look at things a bit more seriously.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
dont forget we have allies in the area that just want an excuse to war with iran. israel has the most advanced army in the middle east. whereas iran has russian crap
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
lmao, they could of held on to them alot longer than a few weeks. They could of treated them alot worse than they treated them.
If you think Britain was in a position to start a war with Iran you are sadly mistaken.. this had to be handed with tact and diplomacy not go in guns blazing leaving them all dead.
EU pressure helped, failure to see that is failure to accept the obvious.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
the eu may have helped but their release was inevitable.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
I agree they had to release them sometime, but it could of been far worse for us. Lol we cant just go bombing a country of 70 million people because they capture a few of our sailors.
the fact we have 5000 troops in Southern Iraq is a good reason why we cant do something like that.. wed of got slaughtered for such an attack.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Israel is prepared to take out Irans nuclear facilities not invade and start a full scale war, theyd need too much support.
Just face it a military response was off the table.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
israel would have done wat we and america would have done and bombed the crap out of everything that both moved and didnt
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
The commonwealth doesnt respond on such issues and apart from India, Australia and Canada has very little influence.
Who did that leave? The European Union. The biggest trading block in the world and yes Irans number 1 trading partner(over 25% of all Irans trade). Serious sanctions by the European Union would cripple Irans economy.
So it cant hurt when the EU demands their immediate release can it?
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
"The European Union repeats its call for the immediate and unconditional release of the British Royal Naval personnel."
"The leaders of Iran have to understand this is not a bilateral issue" "The government of Iran has to understand that whatever happens to any citizens of the EU ... happens to the entire union." - Javier Solana, the EU's foreign policy chief,
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
oh and when u give someone something or invite them in they are not "stealing" :)
The Bulgarian nurses held by Libya for years and were sentenced to death is a good example. A few months after Bulgaria joined the EU, France and the EU put pressure on libya and offered them a few carrots and in return the bulgarian nurses were released.
A free trade agreement doesnt allow us to operate on the world stage as one. Its not enough. Thats what makes the European a good thing :)
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
so your saying as an example. that criminals who were sentenced to death are now walking freely throughout europe. and this is all because of the eu
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
They were not bad people, just because some court in Libya believes they were does not mean anything. Yes they can now walk free all over europe because of the European Union.. Thats a good thing in my book :)
Its an extra layer of protection to back up each other. We are all citizens of the European Union, as much as you may not like to accept it, it does mean something.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
also i agree that the police should cooperate. there would be no need for membership fees or a european parliment or any of the other eu organisations that waste money. no need for eu constituions or other wastes of time. and countries would be able to control their own immigration and agricultural policies
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
The EU has to be more than just a trade agreement and co operation between countries. For Europe to play a lead role on this planet we have to combine forces and work together.. Its the only way we can get good deals when dealing with large states like China or the USA.
The fact we are citizens of the European Union offers us more protection. The EU is the only way forward to have total peace and security in Europe. :)
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
we don't need Europe to get us good deals with America.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
and wat is better britain having a lead role or europe. it is our military strength and involvement in the war on terror that gives us a say. not to mention our permanent seat on the security council
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
Strong alliance with the USA, the commonwealth and yes our seat on the UN security council is all important.. But being part of the European Union is very important aswell. Britain doing a trade deal with China, clearly china has the upper hand.. China doing a deal with thier biggest trading partner EU and we have far more of a say.
We can help encourage reform in nations far more than we can when trading alone. NATO, UN, commonwealth dont do trade deals with 3rd parties for us.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
trading with china at all is a bad idea. if the eu is so great it should stop trading with it.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
this database will have information on the person including a picture and details on the passport. there should be a barcode on the passport that allows security at airport to quickly check that it matches up. No immigration from any countries outside the database should be allowed. this would stop fake passports completely.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
The eu should be a free trade agreement, but i do concede that some things other than just that would help the uk. There should be a passport database of all countries in the eu and any other country that wants in.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
The EU will destroy this country. We have been to war with France more than any other country on Earth, and now we are letting them write our own constitution??? Mad, barking mad.
Vote for a referendum on the treaty, neé constitution.
DavidTL 4 years ago
The Magna Carta state's the right's that every English man has, peaceful protesting should come to an end The Star Chamber needs to be reactivated but not just for criminal's for politician's & traitor's as well.
10Cnote 4 years ago
Is this advert being shown on national television? I hope so, because most people have no idea what this treaty, neé constiution will do to this country. We need to raise awareness.
DavidTL 4 years ago
Having a referendum on the "treaty" will just result in people voting in favour or against the European Union, most people wont bother reading the legal text of the documents.
Have a referendum on staying in or leaving the Union, the majority would vote to stay in because the cost to the economy would be HUGE if we left.
These anti europeans dont like to even consider that.. just out out out. Very dangerous policy.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
This isn't true, If we left the union we could just create a new trade agreement without all the regulations (laws) that europe uses to countrol use.
It's a lie that pro union people us to scare us from leaving so they can put the uk into the constitutional union from the backdoor.
doford 4 years ago
You are mistaken, even Norway which is not part of the European Union has to apply with EU standards and regulations, they pay billions to the EU for being allowed access to our markets.
Alot of regulations are for consumer protection. Do you think Britain can get a good deal when dealing with China alone or a better one when speaking with the EU as awhole is main trading partner?
We have alot more influence in the union than out of it.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
I'm all for the trade agreements. That was the whole point of the eu. I don't want to be part of a superstate.
doford 4 years ago
would you want Britain to be isolated and alone in Europe next to a huge superstate the EU which we have no influence over?
Would that not be a rather bigger threat to Britains security than the EU telling us to do a few things that we are against but dont cause serious problems?
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
We have nukes, we're part of nato, we're part of the commonwealth, and europe exports more into britain than we do into them. Europe needs us more than we need them.
We have a set on the un. We will never be alone in the world. We can work with europe but we don't have to get married.
doford 4 years ago
Indeed we are part of Nato and the Commonwealth, but those two have their weaknesses. NATO is simply an alliance which includes most members of the EU anyway which is there to protect western interests. Its not a trading / economic block. The commonwealth sadly isnt very strong today and does not offer us what the EU does.
The Commonwealth doesnt speak with one voice like the EU can. We need the EU and they need us, which is why they accept the reform treaty redlines.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
The redlines are rubbish, there endgame is to have a european superstate. Like you said "one voice".
Nato is the whole reason we have peace in europe and the whole point of the commonwealth is to have inderpendant nations working together.
There will be no such things as a eurpean union with redlines. It's pointless, what they want is a european superstate.
doford 4 years ago
The Redlines are not Rubbish they are there to protect British interests. Do you really think the Germans and French want to lose their national identity? The EU allows us to remain independent sovereign states at the same time as working together through the union for all our benefit.
Britain, France and Germany use to be major world powers but now with the rise of India, China and the strenght of the USA we alone are weak.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
NATO did keep Europe safe and defeat the communist threat from the USSR but it didnt do this alone. The Stability created by European countries working together since the end of WW2 kept europe strong instead of fighting each other.
The Treaty of Rome which was signed in 1957 created what is now the EU. That treaty helped the economies of those nations and made them stronger. This did play a role in keeping Europe safe.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
succes England, keep the scum out
testbink 4 years ago
A nightmare??? How can such a dream become a nightmare? People from different cultures, different backgrounds coming together and sharing! Why fear Europe? Europe has great ideals of democracy and all EU countries have common values as a social justice, Europe can be the force for Democracy in the world!
Tig1848 4 years ago
Europe is a great dream of unity and democracy! The European Parliament and Commission have done great things and Britain can contribute to making a united Europe for peace and democracy in the world! Europe ca become the power of the future united together in our diversity! LONG LIVE THE EUROPEAN DREAM!
Tig1848 4 years ago
you really are deluded.
EGODAVE 4 years ago
Well perhaps instead of attacking people youd like to make an actual argument to support your case?
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
You are clearly a dilusional idealist and you will be hit hard by reality in a decade or so when the 'dream' of the European Superstate turns out to be nightmare.
kzearo 4 years ago
it is a nightmar they are doing the seem in the usa they are trying to make a nwo look up the north american union they only way you can rule the world is not by Democracy but by dictatorship also look up browns nwo speeh its on here
skulls23 4 years ago
Democracy? Done Great things? they have not had the accounts signed off for 12 years ?? it is so corrupt - they need to take the people with them for the dream - and when asked the people say NO!!
TooDarnSoulful 4 years ago
we need to vote ukip and flush the shit out
skulls23 4 years ago
also remember half the euro commision is either a former ussr apparachick or been convicted of some crime mainly fraud including the person in charge of the anti fraud agency
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
What current members of the European Commision are convicted criminals?
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
Hmmm.... How about all of them??
DavidTL 4 years ago
europe can be unified. but britannia is not europe.
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
Im Sorry but if you are British you are European, its impossible to avoid that.
You can be English, British and European. Why do you have such a problem with Europe? Its pretty pathetic and stupid to be honest.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
search for the youtube video Nigel Farage on who's who in the EU commission
hamsterwaffle 4 years ago
Just watched that now he listed only 3-5 people out of a commission of 27 members. How is that half?
This is just one commission, there will be a new one in a few years time.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago
In this video we saw The Houses of Parliament being blown up. I would love to do that to Brusselles! Labour promised The British People a referendum and should stick to that. Like Tony Blair Gordon Brown is just another dictator. Who says The British People will say "NO" anyway? On the other hand we could all practice our "Heil Merkel" salute ready for when that bitch takes over!
102trafalgar 4 years ago
BritishWatcher, the labour party gave the people a manifesto commitment to do so, they should keep to that commitment.
euvote 4 years ago
lmao they are not committed to it by law.. Most of the things parties promise in the election campaigns dont always turn out to be true.
There are a number of differences between the constitution and the new reform treaty.. we will have to wait for the final text to be agreed to before we know for sure what it will do.
I would like to see a referendum on the EU itself. With a little education of what we actually gain the majority of people would support remaining in the EU.
TheBritishWatcher 4 years ago