Moses, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Micah, Zechariah, and Malachi all prophesied of Jesus; the fulfilment of over 300 OT prophesies. But more than this, Jesus is not a dead prophet but a living saviour. I, like Doug, have been pulled from misery by Him and continue to experience His compassion daily. I wish I could show you what it means to experience Him, but this you can only do of your own free will. I pray one day you will.
Moses, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Micah, Zechariah, and Malachi all prophesied of Jesus; the fulfilment of over 300 OT prophesies. But more than this, Jesus is not a dead prophet but a living saviour. I, like Doug, have been pulled from misery by Him and continue to experience His compassion daily. I wish I could show you what it means to experience Him, but this you can only do of your own free will. I pray one day you will.
I read one of doug's booklets: who is the archangel michael, doug claims michael is jesus, the same doctrine as the jehovas witness and he also said jesus made a miracle of grape juice instead of wine
Do they expect him as a man in a body /that nobody would know where He came from/ or do they believe that He will be God himself in human form or is He going to be just God representative born from human mother and father?
@VESANG 100% human and a descendant of King David and King Solomon. His qualifications are that he will bring about world peace/ universal knowledge of G-d and rebuild the 3rd Temple.
(CONT'D) Jesus Christ fulfilled Issiah's prophesy to a tee (Isaiah 7:14). This cannot be denied or refuted. And ironically, even through your misquotation, Deuteronomy 4:15 still rings true--just not the way you've presented it. Human beings are sensation-hungry monsters. We want things that give us materialistic stimulation. Therefore, it is to this day only by the "still small voice" that we are saved. But does this mean God does not have an image? Absolutely not.
(CONT'D) Moses was given spiritual eyes so that he could see God, otherwise he would not have survived the Glory of God, but would have fallen facedown dead. This does not, however, change the fact that God has an image He wants to preserve through His people. Deuteronomy 4:15 does not contradict this. The Israelites were highly exposed to the seduction of materialistic gods. You cannot take this verse out of context and use it as evidence that God has no form whatsoever. (CONT'D)
I daresay, your respective argument is mediocre as an interpretative process alone. I suggest you read Exodus 33:11, in which Moses is recorded to have walked in communion with God face to face on a daily basis. We are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27), and though He may not be materially naturalistic, He is very much recognizable to those with eyes that can see. You make a common mistake, my friend. The Bible is not a random collection of miscellaneous verses. It is an account. (CONT'D)
@FatTonyAU Hi FatTonyAU, Are you asking me if I am a sinner? My response, "But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made knowen, to which the Law and the Phrophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no differance, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Chist Jesus" Romans 3:21-24
@FatTonyAU "Do we then nullify the law by faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." Romans 3:31 "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his own sight by ovbserving the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." Romans 3:20 So you see that even Paul knew that the law had not been done away with.
@FatTonyAU Do I keep the 10 commandments? Yes. Perfectly? Sadly enough, no. And neither do you. For this fact Jesus came and died at the hands of sinners like you and me. So that, if we choose to accept Christ's rightouesness, and the grace of God, we can both be counted as children of God. And if we truely do love our Creator then we will, try in our sinnful nature to, keep His commadments. See John 14:15
You will REAP what you SOW, and you lie and make false accusations that Christians who love Jesus and have faith in Jesus will be lost and rejected by God and receive the Mark of the Beast, just because they lacked Sabbath works!
You teach a false gospel based on Sabbath works, the Pharisee's did the same! The Sabbath is your god, and you rely on it to save you. You have rejected Jesus and grace, and you don't even realise it!
I have seen and heard Doug Batchelor with my own ears say that at a future date, Jesus will say the words, "IT IS FINISHED".
At that exact moment I realised I am watching and listening to a false and lying teacher who contradicts Jesus, because 2000 years ago, John 19:30, Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED", yet Doug lied and contradicted Jesus because he would rather say something that is not true so he can support EGW and her teachings.
Doug is a liar and false teacher and contradicts Jesus!
@FatTonyAU I once heard Desmond Ford summing up the position of EGW and 1844 very nicely. He said that according to SDA, salvation is dependent on having a good memory!!
You cannot validate your rejection of Christ from the Bible for the simple reason that the Bible validates Him from Genesis to Revelation. Rather than looking for inspired excuses why not simply admit that the reason you do not accept him is because your are a Jew and have no faith?
@FatTonyAU Does not Done and Finished mean the same thing? Let us take a look at THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, New Dell Edition, Printed July 1980.
Done(dun). p.p. of do. ---adj. 1. Finished. Now let us take a look at a few texts, shall we? 1. Revelation16:17"...and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It Is Done!" 2. Revelation 21:6 "He said unto me, It Is Done, I am the Alpha and Omega..." Doug was telling the truth. It is future.
@FatTonyAU "I have seen and heard Doug Batchelor with my own ears say that at a future date, Jesus will say the words, "IT IS FINISHED"."---Which video are you are you talking about?
You certainly have the right to your spiritual beliefs sir, as I do mine. My only reply is that by denying Jesus's humanity AND PURPOSE FOR IT , you deny GOD & HIS WORD,(seems as though THAT occured once before 2000 yrs. or so ago). As for what You think Malachi should or shouldn't say (you OR I) haven't the mind or motives to BEGIN TO KNOW GOD'S THOUGHTS. HE says that in fact. May God bless you sir, thanks for your post......
@kneapoe51 The point of referring to Malachi is that Malachi refers us back to Horeb and the events of Horeb described in Deut 4. Deut 4 says twice that G-d does not have a form. It is all the more poignant that Malachi is the last prophet to write and warn specifically by referring back to Horeb just prior to when a person comes along of whom the New Testament claims is G-d in physical form. To deny G-d's word would be to deny Malachi!
In what way is man in the image of G-d? Biologically speaking we are no different than animals. The faculty of speech which is a manifestation of thought. makes us different than animals. In human the realm of thought we are capable of making moral decisions. Animals have instinct. If you wish to make a literal connection however, you have a G-d with both sets of genitalia both male and female!!! Since G-d created matter it is evident that G-d is not made of matter!!!
@Menashe65 Genesis 1:24 "And God said , Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind. verse 26 (biologically speaking we are not the same or similar to animals.)
God said, let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness. Who do you think He was speaking with? Reading along Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign,Behold a virgin shall conceive & bear a son and shall call His name Immanuel. Therefore your rhetorical gender comment is uncalled for.
@bother1844 Man was made 'a little lower than the angels' (see psalm 8:4-6).
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet:
It is patently obvious that G-d is in consultation with the heavenly angels. The idea of a trinity is firmly dismissed when we read than G-d made man: So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
The Seventh Day Adventist Church does not promote doing of the law to be saved but that salvation is a gift from God, Now because we have been given this gift of life do we then trample on Gods law because we have been given the gift of eternal life or out of appreciation and love for Gods law do we uphold it because we want to do whats right! I do not see it as legalism to love God for the Bible says in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
"Antonio deception is a work of the devil. Brother, be not deceived. The SDA does not believe such thing you are spreading. If so, never forget that even in GODS Church there are few lost souls. Every church has them, right?? Hypocrites spread a total diverse message that the actuall church believes. If you decide to speak against something or someone. Make sure you KNOW clearly what they are. You may know some but I mean ALL of what they are.
Adventists believe they are lost if they were to stop attending SDA Church Service every Sabbath to sing a song or two, pay their tithe, hear a sermon and go home. If they stopped doing this "work", they believe they are lost and will receive the future Mark of the Beast.
Ask any Adventist if they believe they will be saved if they stopped attending SDA Sabbath Church Service! Their answer reveals they rely on personal Sabbath keeping to remain saved! There is your proof of SDA legalism!
@The1Antonio1: That is NOT a teaching in the SDA church. God said to keep the Sabbath holy. Therefore if you do NOT keep the Sabbath holy you are a sinner. No sinner will be saved. Only those who have confessed and repented (turn away from their sins) of their sins will be saved.
Legalism is the keeping of the Law IN ORDER to be saved. We keep the Law BECAUSE we ARE saved. Big difference.
@The1Antonio1 Are not all men,and women judged by the the Perfect Law of God? Our works are judged! "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not b faith alone. In the same way, was not Rahab the prostitue considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so is faith without deeds is dead." James 2:22-26
SDA teach a false gospel of legalism and a false doctrine of the Investigate Judgment and what that false teaching does is add uncertainty for Adventists where they have NO IDEA if they are saved or not! Jesus said in John 14:1-3 that if you trust in Him HE WILL COME BACK FOR YOU and take you to heaven! But Adventists say NO! Even though you trust in Jesus, HE MAY NOT COME BACK FOR YOU TO TAKE YOU TO HEAVEN! SDA call Jesus a liar!
@dconklin58 Absolutely a lie!! The SDA IJ is nowhere in the entire bible. It's obvious you have never properly studied or understood the SDA IJ.For if you did you would know it's nowhere in the bible at all.
Hence, why hundreds of SDA Teachers, Pastors,Theologians etc have left the SDA because they realised the SDA IJ adds things to the bible which simply are nowhere to taught in the entire bible.
I am sure you didn't realise that the SDA IJ teaches that Satan is needed to complete atonement
@The1Antonio1: "The SDA IJ is nowhere in the entire bible."
In the Bible it is called the Day of Atonement.
>hundreds of SDA Teachers, Pastors,Theologians etc have left the SDA
I'd like to see the study that proved that to be true. In any case, the Bible talks about the wheat being separated from the chaff in the time of shaking.
>the SDA IJ teaches that Satan is needed to complete atonement
See the goat for Azazael in the Day of Atonement ceremony.
Pauls comments in Philippians has nothing to do with a physical form, no more than statements such as God is forming in us a new man. That statement was about what Jesus possessed in spiritual form. If you continue it says made in the form of a slave, and the "likeness of man. He clearly is not speaking of a physical form.
@protochris In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. v1....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth..... v14 John 1
Deuteronomy 4:12-16 doesn't say God doesn't have a form. It's simply saying that He didn't appear to them in any form. By the way, if God doesn't have a form then it would be fair to conclude that He doesn't have a face. Yet the Bible says that Jacob saw the face of God and lived (Genesis 32:30). Moreover, God also has a finger which He used to write commands that you are guilty of breaking--"Do not lie." (Exodus 20:16; 31:18).
@oxo7oxo You have obviously not considered anthropomorphisms.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them. Gen 1
God is bisexual, you would say, having genitalia? Or perhaps you really are one of those genuine followers of Jesus eating his body drinking his blood? John 6:53-56
@Menashe65 You can revert to using ad hominem attacks all you want, but you will not escape the fact that you read meaning into the text that isn't present. For God never said He doesn't have a form. He just simply said that He did not appear to them in any form; He only allowed them to hear His voice. Hence you are still guilty of telling a lie.
@oxo7oxo If you review the video you will note I said a physical flesh and blood form as claimed by Paul in Phil 2. Since G-d made matter it is apparent that G-d is not made from matter.. In the light of G-d's infinite matter-less nature and his unchangeability would mean that G-d has become something he was not previously (John 1:1,14).
@Menashe65 By the way, your argumentation is flawed. For if one were to reason thusly then they would also have to say that because God created fingers, hands, a face, and back parts, then that means He can't have any of these. Yet the Bible makes it very clear that He has all of these parts. Where is your faith in the Scriptures?
@Menashe65 The Bible makes it very clear that God has fingers (Ex. 31:18), a hand (Ex. 33:22), a face (Ex. 33:20), and back parts (Ex. 33:23). Thus it is evident that God has some kind of a form, and you are therefore denying the obvious. I suggest that you spend less time looking to science for answers and more time exercising faith in the testimony of the Scriptures.
@oxo7oxo So you would deny that G-d created something from nothing (ex nihilo)?
For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isaiah 55:8.
The appearance / metaphor / allusion of a hand / finger is just to help our limited finite minds/ bodies to get a small grasp of the infinite which obviously cannot be restricted to finite dimensions of a hand / face etc....
@oxo7oxo Actually, I need to correct myself. Not only am I denying your assumption that God doesn't have a form, I am also denying your assumption that Paul didn't speak the truth.
Everyone is a sinner. And according to 1John 3:4, Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
Everyone who sins BREAKS THE LAW! It doesn't say breaks only part of the law, it says BREAKS THE LAW, meaning sinners are 10 Commandment breakers and guilty of breaking the WHOLE LAW.
James confirmation, 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
@Jon45914 Since the book of Daniel is a Jewish book then we have a lot say about it and indeed there are many commentaries in Hebrew and also some in English.
I was a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Denomination for 12 years but I have now resigned my membership because I came to understand and realise that I am saved by faith and grace alone, not by works or personal Sabbath keeping that the SDA teach. I teach the gospel of justification, sanctification and righteousness by faith alone. But now most Adventists call me a child of Satan. Once I came out of Babylon/SDA I am set free in the grace and righteousness of Christ and I now see clearly.
Any Adventist who is still a sinner, YET still invited Jesus into their hearts do NOT believe in EGW, because EGW said the following; "In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning." Signs of the Times, March 3, 1898. So unless you have perfectly stopped sinning,(which nobody has), then you should not invite Jesus into your heart if you are an Adventist and if you believe in what EGW taught. EGW also said, "To be redeemed means to cease from sin." Review & Herald, Sept. 25, 1900
Adventists DO NOT believe in Imputed Righteousness i.e. Righteousness by faith. They believe in righteousness through Sabbath and Commandment keeping.
Ask an Adventist if they stopped attending Church on Saturday mornings if they can still be saved. Their answer is NO! Ellen White was a false teacher who has placed Adventists under works/legalism. She said: "In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning." Signs of the Times, March 3, 1898. Ironically she died a sinner.
Heb 9:22 claims that almost all things be cleansed by blood. The fact is that only unintentional sins may be cleansed by blood (Lev 4) Willful sins and sins in general even without a temple/ sacrifice may always be forgiven via sincere repentance.
Adventists DO NOT believe in Imputed Righteousness i.e. Righteousness by faith. They believe in righteousness through Sabbath and Commandment keeping.
Ask an Adventist if they stopped attending Church on Saturday mornings if they can still be saved. Their answer is NO! Ellen White was a false teacher who has placed Adventists under works/legalism. She said: "In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning." Signs of the Times, March 3, 1898. Ironically she died a sinner.
Doug Batchelor is a false teacher of legalism. Jesus in John 19:30 says IT IS FINISHED. Yet I hear Doug with my own ears say that it is NOT FINISHED YET and there is still works needed to be done by humans and Jesus.
@The1Antonio1 It is indeed true that Seventh day A dentists have one foot in the old covenant and the other in the new covenant. However, where in the Old Testament is it (salvation) as definitive as Mark 16:16? If this the most important commandment a Jew can do, where will you find such a thing?
@curiomonk Jesus came to fulfill the salvation requirements by keeping and fulfilling the law on our behalf.
Salvation demands a perfect and sinless life, so Jesus came to fulfill keeping the law perfectly for us and then imputes and credits the believers with His sinless life so we can now be counted perfect and sinless as a free gift of grace.
I am a Sabbath keeper, I love the law, I avoid murder, I avoid stealing, adultery etc. But I do it as fruit of salvation, not as SDA do, as root.
@The1Antonio1 i am sda, i also do it as fruit of the salvation. these guys are preaching false about the sda people. we follow the bible as best as we can. we follow the ten commandments because we love Jesus. not because we want to go to heaven. "If you love me keep my commandments." - Jesus
"In the beginning was the Word..., and the Word was God... The word became flesh and dwelt among us." John 1:1, 14. "This Gospel shall be preached in all the world...then shall the end come." Matt. 24:14. "Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." Math 24:28. It's no coincidence that Christianity spread so widely around the world, and that the most powerful nations are Christian. The Jews are no longer God's 'chosen', because "He came unto his own, and his own received him not." John 1:11.
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name:If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Jer 31:55-57
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and [things] wherein [there is] no profit.
The Jews are still hardening their hearts till these last days and it is a great shame....ignoring the whole plan salvation through the only begotten son of GOD, who was sacrificed for the atonement of everyone, JEWS AND GENTILES alike....
Thanks for the article! I wish we had a perfect translation of the Hebrew text but KJV did a very good job none the less. With that said,that is the reason why we have Hebrew/Aramaic concordances. Still does not change the fact that your "prince" has come already.
You will never find a perfect translation that is why we jews do not rely on them. The KJV has altered Dan 9 significantly to deceive you! If you take away the rrors of the KJV you will see that Dan ( talks about 2 time periods and so the prince is Titus and the other annointed is Cyrus.
Using the metrics you provided in the wiki article, it did not change the meaning for the worse, but for the better. The anointing of Cyrus is not the start date, Ezra 7 fulfills this prophecy. That text, is not implying to start at a date in which an anointed king issues the decree. I will get into this in detail later. Let it suffice for now that Ezra 7 fulfills this in either interpretation of anointed (future or past)
Dan breaks down the 70 wk prophecy like he breaks down Dan 2 with the beast in ch 7. Its just the details of the larger prophecy, its not separating the years, that makes no sense. God is clear and plain and leaves little to humans in the way of interpretaton. The fact that Daniel gives a start and an end marks for the 70 wks leaves little to the imagination. Starting at Cyrus has no point in scripture and need not be mentioned if 70 years can be randomly applied.
btw, the word "decieve." I appreciate that you are worried about my salvation. I want you to open your eyes to the truth. If we take scripture literally and symbolically only when its obviously applicable like the beast and days in prophecy. You then can see that Gods explains everything, and all we need is look in history book to verify, w/ hardly any interpretation.
Finally, Malachi 4:4 is what the whole atonement is about, if the law did not exist, then there would be no sin. Your other points about it seems Malachi would do this and that is not biblical but human reasoning. God sent his prophets before all major events. For Jesus, it was John the Baptist.
Malachi 4 of course refers to Elijah paving the way prior to the day of the Lord. John the Baptist however was not Elijah: And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No." John 1:21
John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 40:3. Do you believe in reincarnation? Because that is not what God teaches. Did not Elisha receive a double portion of Elijas spirit? In the same way, John received the spirit of Elijah, the same spirit that all the prophets of the past had in perhaps lesser portions. (See Isaiah 63:11 and Luke 1:3-1.), As far as being a prophet, when did anyone in scripture claim to ever be a prophet. This was a title given, not a title claimed.
I can respect that, but I do not agree with it as a spin. John filled the prophecy in Isa 40:3, Isa 63:11, Mal 3:1. In addition, Jesus fulfilled the time the Messiah was scheduled to come outlined in Dan 9:24. It all fits.
Or you can go to Dan 9:24, and it tells you how long. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." 70 weeks = 490 years, Messiah has already come.
If Messiah has come then we see universal peace/ knowledge of God, a rebuilt temple, return of the Jewish people to the land of Israel: see Ezek 37, Isaiah 2, 11
Amen, these verses refer to the second coming of the Messiah and the ressurrection, the new Jerusalem, outlined clearly in the book of Revelation. In case you have not noticed, Jerusalem Currently is not quite the land flowing w/ milk and honey. Thinks will be made new.
And you still did not address Dan 9:24, cannot just ignore scripture because it is convenient to your ideology.
In the case of Tanach the second coming cannot be found and your Jesus failed to fulfill any conclusive prophecies. Dan 9:24 of course refers to the whole 490 year period with verse 25, 26 supplying further details of that period. The ruler who is to come and destroy the city has to achieve this within in the 490 years.
This event was in 70CE by Titus. If your Jesus died circa 69 weeks (30 CE) leaving 1 week = 7 years for the city and temple to be destroyed, it of course never happened but 43 years later or 5 weeks too late.
You also might like to inquire why Messiah is capitalized in your Christian translations of my Jewish scriptures and why "The" Messiah has been added, I say added because there is no definite article (THE) in the Hebrew. Also why in the 39 cases of the Hebrew "Moshiac" in 37 cases is translated correctly (in your bible) as "an anointed one" but in Daniel 9 twice Messiah appears!! You also might ask about that semi-colon in verse 25. I have posted about this above.
I do not see your point, Messiah only appears twice in the entire Bible anyway, both in Daniel. and I am not sure where you getting at w/ the punctuation, I know punctuation is not inspired. Where are you going with this?
You have a translation of the word of God we Jews have the Word of God (the original Hebrew / Aramaic). The word "Moshiac" is translated correctly 37 times in your bible as an "anointed one" but 2 times incorrectly in your translation of the bible as "The Messiah" found in your translation of Daniel 9. If you look into the other 37 cases you will find that "an anointed one" applies to kings (non Jewish ones like Cyrus), prophets. priests and even vessels.
Or Jewish ones like David, or his descendant Yeshua, the King of Kings. What good is having the word of god if you do not believe what is written in it? God wrote about what He was going to do before it happened specifically so you would believe, but you choose to honor your traditions over the word of God,, you place him in a box, as if God needs to rest his head in a earthly sanctuary.
Part of my traditions are these: Isaiah 2, 11 and Ezek 37: Universal world peace/ knowledge of God, a temple and a King as well as resurrection of the dead Dan 12. Your jesus has done none of these.
Again Amen, that is for end times, Isa 2:2 is describing Dan 2:34, 45 and Eze 37. These events also described in Rev 21: 2,3. the resurrection is described in Dan 12 corresponds with Rev 2:5-6. Remember, ISA 49:6 had to occur first, which was fulfilled with Jesus. Don't listen to the tradition of human teachers, reach the word and see.
You are projecting your beliefs back onto Isaiah 49. Imagine the time before Jesus and ask yourself who is speaking? Begin at verse one. You are only seeing what you want to see.
Indeed I am, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. While it was Gods original plan for the literal Jews to be a light unto the world, the truth is they weren't, not until God sent Jesus. When you believe in Jesus, a veil is lifted up and you see all along that your scripture, from beginning to end, was pointing to Jesus/Yeshua all along. Its a situation of type meets anti type. Do not let your pride stop you from knowing the truth. Remember, God made man. "The meek shall inherit the earth."
But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
psalm 37:11. There is nothing new in Jesus' teaching here! When all said and done all you have is belief in Jesus and no actual empirical evidence of his Messiahship.
The whole Hebrew scripture is evidence. You miss the point of your own scripture. All things pointed to God sending his only begotten son to die for your sins. The whole point of your scripture is salvation and obedience to God and his Laws. Thats it. You think in earthly human ways, and are too proud. God does not want the proud but the meek in his kingdom. He cares about all humanity and you have a problem accepting that. That will be your own down fall as it was the pharisees of old.
I will just remind you of the countless blood libels, pogroms, inquisitions and of course the recent holocaust inspired by non other than Martin Luther upon the Jewish people. These are the many atrocities done in the name of your god man Jesus. WE THE JEWISH PEOPLE KNOW OUR OWN SCRIPTURE AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE NOT FALLEN FOR THE BIGGEST EVER LIE IN HISTORY (JESUS). i AM LOOKING FORWARD TO G-D'S JUDGEMENT ON YOUR god man MESSIAH.
Martin Luther? Martin Luther had nothing to do w/ the holocaust or inspiring it. Hitler was a Catholic. Google image Hitler and Catholicism. Catholicism has little to do with real Christianity. Unfortunately , most faiths today fall into the same boat.
And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul; Deut 10 v12
Dan v24 is a summary of all that happens in the 70 wk period. Dan v27 fulfills this by making an end of sins , reconciliation for iniquity, and everlasting and righteousness (all atonement). The anointing took place after 69 weeks, (62 after the 7 first), and the "cut off" of the Messiah was done in v27 in the midst of the week. Therefore, the events not summaries in v24 and the beginning of v26 are left for anytime after the cutoff the Messiah for humanity, not necessary during the 70 weeks.
Deu 4:16 referrs to "making" an idolatrous image. Jesus is no more a creation of man then you are. If you look in the context of the exodus, even when Moses came down with the first stone tablets and seen the Israelites worshipping a golden calve, you can then see what the meaning was. As far as having no form, it sais they saw no form, weather he has form, I can argue that he was not incarnate yet. However, see Gen 1:26, Exo: 33,23.
God [is] not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? num 23:17, also 1 sam 15:29,hosea 11:9.
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; [There is] no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That [there is] none besides Me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; isaiah 45:5,6
What could God have said to make clearer his oneness and alonnes than the above?
Do not know what happen to what I wrote, but I will try to recap. At the time, he was not a man, but the Word became flesh, he became the messiah you were waiting for and lived the sinless life that our ancestors and present selves failed to do no and in the Garden. See Isa 53. You have to stop thinking in a pure human way and believe in your Messiah. Are not all things possible with God? Is dwelling as a human impossible for him to atone for our sins impossible for him? Isaiah 46:10.
Its juts a matter of proving that God came in human form to atone for your sins. Thats why he gave you prophecy, he told of his coming in advance so you would believe.
That text is referring to fallen man. Not God who came in the flesh. Or do you think the sacrifice of an animal can redeem us? "No, But God will redeem my life [f] from the grave; he will surely take me to himself." Psalms 49:15 Ask yourself, what is God redeeming us from?
"That text is referring to fallen man" where do you get this from?
What can redeem us: Again, when a wicked [man] turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Ezek 18:27, 28
With what shall I come before the LORD, [And] bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old?Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn [for] my transgression, The fruit of my body [for] the sin of my soul?He has shown you, O man, what [is] good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God? mic 6:6-8
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. Psalm 51:16,17
Everything except one item mentioned here under inspiration was used for the atonement. What made this author, under inspiration, mention anything about a "firstborn" . "And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:40-41
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Ezek 18:20
Priests not Levites offered blood sacrifices and blood sacrifices only atone for un-intentional sins:
And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.V 27,28 ..
But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. see also Lev 4:27, 5:15-17
Your scripture lies when it says: And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Heb 9:22
For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and [without] teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. Hos 3:4,5
In the meantime : O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive [us] graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. Hos 14:1,2 God does not need sacrifice, He wants us (see Jer 7) but if we do sin we can confess with our mouths and our sins are forgiven despite what your new testament says. I sin and my God forgives me!!
The relationship is that Christians often level the charge that Jews do not have an atonement because there is no temple. Hosea 3:4,5 points out that the absence of a temple is fully anticipated by scripture. In any case blood atonement is actually meant for unintentional sins only according to Lev 4:27, 5:14, 17, num 15:27. Atonement is provided regardless of a temple see Hosea 14:1,2. Rather doing the right thing as opposed to vicarious atonement is taught in scripture (see Ezek 18.
@Menashe65 how is the absence of a temple antipated by the scripture? What I see happening in Hosea is the illustration of the rebellion of God's people and because of that, they will be without someone to lead them until Israel returns to Him and repents. I see that as a consenquence of rebellion and not an anticipation.
@Menashe65 How is the absence of a temple anticipated? What I see in Hosea is an illustration of the rebellion of God's people and because of that, the result is them being without someone leading them and being lost until they return to God and repent. I don't see any anticipation but a consequence of their disobedience.
I will stick with what my Jewish scriptures (Tanach) say:
God is not a man, He changes not, there is only Him and no one else and I must believe in Him and no other etc.. The law is keep-able BTW "For this commandment which I command you today [is] not [too] mysterious for you, nor [is] it far off.v11 But the word [is] very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. v14 (Deut 30)
The Tanach (whcih is the majority of what I been quoting) again is not talking about his physical form, but his word, That never changes, read it in the context. In the Tanach, "And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him (Daniel 7:13.)
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; [There is] no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That [there is] none besides Me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; isaiah 45:5,6
"For I [am] the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
being incarnate would be a change
Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is], God. mark 10:18
One signifies plurality. Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be ONE flesh." Also see Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in OUR image" As far as God never changing, he means his word stands forever. His word never changes, as you stated "God [is] not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?"
So God created man in His [own] image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. v27
Us . . . Our . . . Our. God speaks as the Creator-king, announcing His crowning work to the members of His heavenly court. (see 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; I Kings 22:19-23; Job 15:8; Jeremiah 23:18), NIV Study Bible, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1985, p. 7.
Perhaps you could enlighten people here as to how God is both male and female? Perhaps you could get Mary the mother of Jesus into the trinity to try and balance things up?
Not sure what you mean by God being male and female? And Mary was just the mother of Jesus, nothing more. What your referring to is Pagan/Catholic teaching.
That Pagan teaching pre-dates both the RC church and Jesus. You should try and do some homework on: Baal, Adonis, Attis, Isis to name but a few. In any case Jesus only got promoted to god status at the council of Nicea 325 CE. Prior to this the Church was mainly Arian.
Thats a nice thought, but you have to ignore the fact that the Hebrew word here for God is "Elohim", which is plural and used 2,700 times in the old testament, which is 10 more times the "El", which is used to address God the Father.
There is an enormous difficulty with the interpretation that the name Elohim signifies a sort of plurality in the godhead; for if Elohim implies a plurality of persons, how can missionaries explain that the identical word Elohim in Tanach refers to Moses as well? Regarding Moses, in Exodus 7:1, the Torah says,
And the LORD said unto Moses, "See, I have made thee a god (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." (KJV)
In that verse its plural intensive. And again, God is ONE, just like Adam and Eve was one flesh. I'm not saying Gods, but the Godhead, made up of 3 persons.
Mindstormer:The word "form" used in Phil. 2:6 should be seen as "nature". The Greek word morphē, here denotes all the essential characteristics and attributes of God. In this sense, it represents the manner in which Gods eternal qualities and characteristics manifested themselves.This is also indicated in Phil 2:7 where the same word is used to refer to Him taking upon Himself the "form" of a servant.
The word "form" used in Phil. 2:6 should be seen as "character". The Greek word morphē, here denotes all the essential characteristics and attributes of God. In this sense, it represents the manner in which Gods eternal qualities and characteristics manifested themselves.
This is also indicated in Phil 2:7 where the same word is used to refer to Him taking upon Himself the "form" of a servant. It doesn't mean His physical body, but rather, his actions & position of love and service to others.
Moses, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Micah, Zechariah, and Malachi all prophesied of Jesus; the fulfilment of over 300 OT prophesies. But more than this, Jesus is not a dead prophet but a living saviour. I, like Doug, have been pulled from misery by Him and continue to experience His compassion daily. I wish I could show you what it means to experience Him, but this you can only do of your own free will. I pray one day you will.
PlantiPal 8 months ago
Moses, David, Isaiah, Daniel, Micah, Zechariah, and Malachi all prophesied of Jesus; the fulfilment of over 300 OT prophesies. But more than this, Jesus is not a dead prophet but a living saviour. I, like Doug, have been pulled from misery by Him and continue to experience His compassion daily. I wish I could show you what it means to experience Him, but this you can only do of your own free will. I pray one day you will.
PlantiPal 8 months ago
I read one of doug's booklets: who is the archangel michael, doug claims michael is jesus, the same doctrine as the jehovas witness and he also said jesus made a miracle of grape juice instead of wine
KnowledgeNeverDie 11 months ago
I have question .
The Jews still wait for Messiah to come.
Do they expect him as a man in a body /that nobody would know where He came from/ or do they believe that He will be God himself in human form or is He going to be just God representative born from human mother and father?
Which one one of the 3?
Your help will be appreciated!
VESANG 1 year ago
@VESANG 100% human and a descendant of King David and King Solomon. His qualifications are that he will bring about world peace/ universal knowledge of G-d and rebuild the 3rd Temple.
Menashe65 1 year ago
(CONT'D) Jesus Christ fulfilled Issiah's prophesy to a tee (Isaiah 7:14). This cannot be denied or refuted. And ironically, even through your misquotation, Deuteronomy 4:15 still rings true--just not the way you've presented it. Human beings are sensation-hungry monsters. We want things that give us materialistic stimulation. Therefore, it is to this day only by the "still small voice" that we are saved. But does this mean God does not have an image? Absolutely not.
HighOnPaint 1 year ago
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HighOnPaint 1 year ago
(CONT'D) Moses was given spiritual eyes so that he could see God, otherwise he would not have survived the Glory of God, but would have fallen facedown dead. This does not, however, change the fact that God has an image He wants to preserve through His people. Deuteronomy 4:15 does not contradict this. The Israelites were highly exposed to the seduction of materialistic gods. You cannot take this verse out of context and use it as evidence that God has no form whatsoever. (CONT'D)
HighOnPaint 1 year ago
I daresay, your respective argument is mediocre as an interpretative process alone. I suggest you read Exodus 33:11, in which Moses is recorded to have walked in communion with God face to face on a daily basis. We are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27), and though He may not be materially naturalistic, He is very much recognizable to those with eyes that can see. You make a common mistake, my friend. The Bible is not a random collection of miscellaneous verses. It is an account. (CONT'D)
HighOnPaint 1 year ago
Did not Jesus say "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father." John6:46.
Also " If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15
johnstumph 1 year ago 2
@johnstumph So?
Menashe65 1 year ago
@johnstumph Do you keep God's 10 Commandments perfectly and never sin? yes or no?
If yes, then are you seriously claiming you are now perfect and never sin whatsoever? yes or no?
If no, then do you believe you do not love Jesus seeing you quoted John 14:15 and indicated it refers to keeping the 10 Commandments?
FatTonyAU 1 year ago
@FatTonyAU Hi FatTonyAU, Are you asking me if I am a sinner? My response, "But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made knowen, to which the Law and the Phrophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no differance, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Chist Jesus" Romans 3:21-24
johnstumph 1 year ago
@FatTonyAU "Do we then nullify the law by faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." Romans 3:31 "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his own sight by ovbserving the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." Romans 3:20 So you see that even Paul knew that the law had not been done away with.
johnstumph 1 year ago
@FatTonyAU Do I keep the 10 commandments? Yes. Perfectly? Sadly enough, no. And neither do you. For this fact Jesus came and died at the hands of sinners like you and me. So that, if we choose to accept Christ's rightouesness, and the grace of God, we can both be counted as children of God. And if we truely do love our Creator then we will, try in our sinnful nature to, keep His commadments. See John 14:15
johnstumph 1 year ago
@johnstumph What Commandments does John 14:15 refer to?
If you say the 10 Commandments, then answer me this question, Do you keep the 10 Commandments perfectly and never sin? YES OR NO?
If no, then do you believe you do not love Jesus seeing you are not keeping the 10 Commandments perfectly?
Yes or No?
FatTonyAU 1 year ago
Attention Adventists:
You will REAP what you SOW, and you lie and make false accusations that Christians who love Jesus and have faith in Jesus will be lost and rejected by God and receive the Mark of the Beast, just because they lacked Sabbath works!
You teach a false gospel based on Sabbath works, the Pharisee's did the same! The Sabbath is your god, and you rely on it to save you. You have rejected Jesus and grace, and you don't even realise it!
FatTonyAU 1 year ago
I have seen and heard Doug Batchelor with my own ears say that at a future date, Jesus will say the words, "IT IS FINISHED".
At that exact moment I realised I am watching and listening to a false and lying teacher who contradicts Jesus, because 2000 years ago, John 19:30, Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED", yet Doug lied and contradicted Jesus because he would rather say something that is not true so he can support EGW and her teachings.
Doug is a liar and false teacher and contradicts Jesus!
FatTonyAU 1 year ago
@FatTonyAU I once heard Desmond Ford summing up the position of EGW and 1844 very nicely. He said that according to SDA, salvation is dependent on having a good memory!!
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 And can you give us a reference to where you "heard" this Desmond Ford fellow say, "salvation is dependent on having a good memory!!"?
johnstumph 1 year ago
@Menashe65
You cannot validate your rejection of Christ from the Bible for the simple reason that the Bible validates Him from Genesis to Revelation. Rather than looking for inspired excuses why not simply admit that the reason you do not accept him is because your are a Jew and have no faith?
eaglesbow 1 year ago
@FatTonyAU Does not Done and Finished mean the same thing? Let us take a look at THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, New Dell Edition, Printed July 1980.
Done(dun). p.p. of do. ---adj. 1. Finished. Now let us take a look at a few texts, shall we? 1. Revelation16:17"...and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It Is Done!" 2. Revelation 21:6 "He said unto me, It Is Done, I am the Alpha and Omega..." Doug was telling the truth. It is future.
johnstumph 1 year ago
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@FatTonyAU "I have seen and heard Doug Batchelor with my own ears say that at a future date, Jesus will say the words, "IT IS FINISHED"."---Which video are you are you talking about?
menacesta 8 months ago
You certainly have the right to your spiritual beliefs sir, as I do mine. My only reply is that by denying Jesus's humanity AND PURPOSE FOR IT , you deny GOD & HIS WORD,(seems as though THAT occured once before 2000 yrs. or so ago). As for what You think Malachi should or shouldn't say (you OR I) haven't the mind or motives to BEGIN TO KNOW GOD'S THOUGHTS. HE says that in fact. May God bless you sir, thanks for your post......
kneapoe51 1 year ago
@kneapoe51 The point of referring to Malachi is that Malachi refers us back to Horeb and the events of Horeb described in Deut 4. Deut 4 says twice that G-d does not have a form. It is all the more poignant that Malachi is the last prophet to write and warn specifically by referring back to Horeb just prior to when a person comes along of whom the New Testament claims is G-d in physical form. To deny G-d's word would be to deny Malachi!
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 --Helow!!!!GENESIS 1:26,,27, and God said let us make man in our image,..............
bother1844 1 year ago
@bother1844
In what way is man in the image of G-d? Biologically speaking we are no different than animals. The faculty of speech which is a manifestation of thought. makes us different than animals. In human the realm of thought we are capable of making moral decisions. Animals have instinct. If you wish to make a literal connection however, you have a G-d with both sets of genitalia both male and female!!! Since G-d created matter it is evident that G-d is not made of matter!!!
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 Genesis 1:24 "And God said , Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind. verse 26 (biologically speaking we are not the same or similar to animals.)
God said, let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness. Who do you think He was speaking with? Reading along Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign,Behold a virgin shall conceive & bear a son and shall call His name Immanuel. Therefore your rhetorical gender comment is uncalled for.
bother1844 1 year ago
@bother1844 Man was made 'a little lower than the angels' (see psalm 8:4-6).
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet:
Menashe65 1 year ago
It is patently obvious that G-d is in consultation with the heavenly angels. The idea of a trinity is firmly dismissed when we read than G-d made man: So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Menashe65 1 year ago
The Seventh Day Adventist Church does not promote doing of the law to be saved but that salvation is a gift from God, Now because we have been given this gift of life do we then trample on Gods law because we have been given the gift of eternal life or out of appreciation and love for Gods law do we uphold it because we want to do whats right! I do not see it as legalism to love God for the Bible says in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
also read John 14:21 and John 15:10
discipleoftruth1 1 year ago
"Antonio deception is a work of the devil. Brother, be not deceived. The SDA does not believe such thing you are spreading. If so, never forget that even in GODS Church there are few lost souls. Every church has them, right?? Hypocrites spread a total diverse message that the actuall church believes. If you decide to speak against something or someone. Make sure you KNOW clearly what they are. You may know some but I mean ALL of what they are.
MrRockbody 1 year ago
Adventists believe they are lost if they were to stop attending SDA Church Service every Sabbath to sing a song or two, pay their tithe, hear a sermon and go home. If they stopped doing this "work", they believe they are lost and will receive the future Mark of the Beast.
Ask any Adventist if they believe they will be saved if they stopped attending SDA Sabbath Church Service! Their answer reveals they rely on personal Sabbath keeping to remain saved! There is your proof of SDA legalism!
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1: That is NOT a teaching in the SDA church. God said to keep the Sabbath holy. Therefore if you do NOT keep the Sabbath holy you are a sinner. No sinner will be saved. Only those who have confessed and repented (turn away from their sins) of their sins will be saved.
Legalism is the keeping of the Law IN ORDER to be saved. We keep the Law BECAUSE we ARE saved. Big difference.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1 Are not all men,and women judged by the the Perfect Law of God? Our works are judged! "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not b faith alone. In the same way, was not Rahab the prostitue considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so is faith without deeds is dead." James 2:22-26
johnstumph 1 year ago
SDA teach a false gospel of legalism and a false doctrine of the Investigate Judgment and what that false teaching does is add uncertainty for Adventists where they have NO IDEA if they are saved or not! Jesus said in John 14:1-3 that if you trust in Him HE WILL COME BACK FOR YOU and take you to heaven! But Adventists say NO! Even though you trust in Jesus, HE MAY NOT COME BACK FOR YOU TO TAKE YOU TO HEAVEN! SDA call Jesus a liar!
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1: The IJ teaching can be found in the Bible. Study the Day of Atonement. It does not "add uncertainty" if you are saved or not.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 Absolutely a lie!! The SDA IJ is nowhere in the entire bible. It's obvious you have never properly studied or understood the SDA IJ.For if you did you would know it's nowhere in the bible at all.
Hence, why hundreds of SDA Teachers, Pastors,Theologians etc have left the SDA because they realised the SDA IJ adds things to the bible which simply are nowhere to taught in the entire bible.
I am sure you didn't realise that the SDA IJ teaches that Satan is needed to complete atonement
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1: "The SDA IJ is nowhere in the entire bible."
In the Bible it is called the Day of Atonement.
>hundreds of SDA Teachers, Pastors,Theologians etc have left the SDA
I'd like to see the study that proved that to be true. In any case, the Bible talks about the wheat being separated from the chaff in the time of shaking.
>the SDA IJ teaches that Satan is needed to complete atonement
See the goat for Azazael in the Day of Atonement ceremony.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 Your comments are inaccurate and in error.
The bible "Day of Atonement" is not the same as the SDA IJ teaching.
The SDA IJ is a deceptive teaching, not supported by the bible, and had led millions of Adventists into a life of legalism and uncertainty!
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
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@The1Antonio1: "The bible "Day of Atonement" is not the same as the SDA IJ teaching."
I wouldn't have directed your attention to it if it wasn't.
>of legalism and uncertainty!
The IJ has nothing to do with either and they are both lies.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1 and were did you read that ? cos i tink you shoud read more .
sulimangilbert 1 year ago
Pauls comments in Philippians has nothing to do with a physical form, no more than statements such as God is forming in us a new man. That statement was about what Jesus possessed in spiritual form. If you continue it says made in the form of a slave, and the "likeness of man. He clearly is not speaking of a physical form.
protochris 1 year ago
@protochris Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Phil 2:6
Menashe65 1 year ago
@protochris In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. v1....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth..... v14 John 1
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65, Keep reading...v17-18, "No one has seen God; it is the only begotten son, who is near to the Father's heart who has made him known".
protochris 1 year ago
Deuteronomy 4:12-16 doesn't say God doesn't have a form. It's simply saying that He didn't appear to them in any form. By the way, if God doesn't have a form then it would be fair to conclude that He doesn't have a face. Yet the Bible says that Jacob saw the face of God and lived (Genesis 32:30). Moreover, God also has a finger which He used to write commands that you are guilty of breaking--"Do not lie." (Exodus 20:16; 31:18).
oxo7oxo 1 year ago
@oxo7oxo You have obviously not considered anthropomorphisms.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them. Gen 1
God is bisexual, you would say, having genitalia? Or perhaps you really are one of those genuine followers of Jesus eating his body drinking his blood? John 6:53-56
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 You can revert to using ad hominem attacks all you want, but you will not escape the fact that you read meaning into the text that isn't present. For God never said He doesn't have a form. He just simply said that He did not appear to them in any form; He only allowed them to hear His voice. Hence you are still guilty of telling a lie.
oxo7oxo 1 year ago
@oxo7oxo If you review the video you will note I said a physical flesh and blood form as claimed by Paul in Phil 2. Since G-d made matter it is apparent that G-d is not made from matter.. In the light of G-d's infinite matter-less nature and his unchangeability would mean that G-d has become something he was not previously (John 1:1,14).
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 By the way, your argumentation is flawed. For if one were to reason thusly then they would also have to say that because God created fingers, hands, a face, and back parts, then that means He can't have any of these. Yet the Bible makes it very clear that He has all of these parts. Where is your faith in the Scriptures?
oxo7oxo 1 year ago
@Menashe65 The Bible makes it very clear that God has fingers (Ex. 31:18), a hand (Ex. 33:22), a face (Ex. 33:20), and back parts (Ex. 33:23). Thus it is evident that God has some kind of a form, and you are therefore denying the obvious. I suggest that you spend less time looking to science for answers and more time exercising faith in the testimony of the Scriptures.
oxo7oxo 1 year ago
@oxo7oxo So you would deny that G-d created something from nothing (ex nihilo)?
For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isaiah 55:8.
The appearance / metaphor / allusion of a hand / finger is just to help our limited finite minds/ bodies to get a small grasp of the infinite which obviously cannot be restricted to finite dimensions of a hand / face etc....
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 The only thing that I am denying here is your assumption that God doesn't have a form.
oxo7oxo 1 year ago
@oxo7oxo Actually, I need to correct myself. Not only am I denying your assumption that God doesn't have a form, I am also denying your assumption that Paul didn't speak the truth.
oxo7oxo 1 year ago
@oxo7oxo You are of course to think this way unless you say denial is a river in Egypt!
Menashe65 1 year ago
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100% of all Adventists are Sabbath breakers!
Everyone is a sinner. And according to 1John 3:4, Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
Everyone who sins BREAKS THE LAW! It doesn't say breaks only part of the law, it says BREAKS THE LAW, meaning sinners are 10 Commandment breakers and guilty of breaking the WHOLE LAW.
James confirmation, 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Notice..BREAKING ALL OF IT!
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
What do you guys make of the book of Daniel?
Jon45914 1 year ago
@Jon45914 Since the book of Daniel is a Jewish book then we have a lot say about it and indeed there are many commentaries in Hebrew and also some in English.
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 What do you think the prophecies in Daniel are referring too? And what are your views on the Day to a year principle?
Jon45914 1 year ago
Your next step might be to consider the video itself and its message.
Menashe65 1 year ago
I was a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Denomination for 12 years but I have now resigned my membership because I came to understand and realise that I am saved by faith and grace alone, not by works or personal Sabbath keeping that the SDA teach. I teach the gospel of justification, sanctification and righteousness by faith alone. But now most Adventists call me a child of Satan. Once I came out of Babylon/SDA I am set free in the grace and righteousness of Christ and I now see clearly.
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
Any Adventist who is still a sinner, YET still invited Jesus into their hearts do NOT believe in EGW, because EGW said the following; "In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning." Signs of the Times, March 3, 1898. So unless you have perfectly stopped sinning,(which nobody has), then you should not invite Jesus into your heart if you are an Adventist and if you believe in what EGW taught. EGW also said, "To be redeemed means to cease from sin." Review & Herald, Sept. 25, 1900
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
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Adventists DO NOT believe in Imputed Righteousness i.e. Righteousness by faith. They believe in righteousness through Sabbath and Commandment keeping.
Ask an Adventist if they stopped attending Church on Saturday mornings if they can still be saved. Their answer is NO! Ellen White was a false teacher who has placed Adventists under works/legalism. She said: "In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning." Signs of the Times, March 3, 1898. Ironically she died a sinner.
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
Heb 9:22 claims that almost all things be cleansed by blood. The fact is that only unintentional sins may be cleansed by blood (Lev 4) Willful sins and sins in general even without a temple/ sacrifice may always be forgiven via sincere repentance.
Menashe65 1 year ago
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Adventists DO NOT believe in Imputed Righteousness i.e. Righteousness by faith. They believe in righteousness through Sabbath and Commandment keeping.
Ask an Adventist if they stopped attending Church on Saturday mornings if they can still be saved. Their answer is NO! Ellen White was a false teacher who has placed Adventists under works/legalism. She said: "In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning." Signs of the Times, March 3, 1898. Ironically she died a sinner.
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
Doug Batchelor is a false teacher of legalism. Jesus in John 19:30 says IT IS FINISHED. Yet I hear Doug with my own ears say that it is NOT FINISHED YET and there is still works needed to be done by humans and Jesus.
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1 It is indeed true that Seventh day A dentists have one foot in the old covenant and the other in the new covenant. However, where in the Old Testament is it (salvation) as definitive as Mark 16:16? If this the most important commandment a Jew can do, where will you find such a thing?
Menashe65 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1 Jesus himself said i have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it.
curiomonk 1 year ago
@curiomonk Jesus came to fulfill the salvation requirements by keeping and fulfilling the law on our behalf.
Salvation demands a perfect and sinless life, so Jesus came to fulfill keeping the law perfectly for us and then imputes and credits the believers with His sinless life so we can now be counted perfect and sinless as a free gift of grace.
I am a Sabbath keeper, I love the law, I avoid murder, I avoid stealing, adultery etc. But I do it as fruit of salvation, not as SDA do, as root.
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
@The1Antonio1 i am sda, i also do it as fruit of the salvation. these guys are preaching false about the sda people. we follow the bible as best as we can. we follow the ten commandments because we love Jesus. not because we want to go to heaven. "If you love me keep my commandments." - Jesus
curiomonk 1 year ago
Anticipated in that the prayers are substituted by sacrifice (Hos 14:2)
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 ok so how does that prove anything about hebrews 9?
deaeme7 1 year ago
"In the beginning was the Word..., and the Word was God... The word became flesh and dwelt among us." John 1:1, 14. "This Gospel shall be preached in all the world...then shall the end come." Matt. 24:14. "Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." Math 24:28. It's no coincidence that Christianity spread so widely around the world, and that the most powerful nations are Christian. The Jews are no longer God's 'chosen', because "He came unto his own, and his own received him not." John 1:11.
twovthree 2 years ago
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name:If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Jer 31:55-57
Menashe65 2 years ago
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and [things] wherein [there is] no profit.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they [are] no gods? Jer 16;19:20
Menashe65 2 years ago
The Jews are still hardening their hearts till these last days and it is a great shame....ignoring the whole plan salvation through the only begotten son of GOD, who was sacrificed for the atonement of everyone, JEWS AND GENTILES alike....
uddy777 2 years ago
You still are choosing to ignore what God actually says in the Jewish scriptures BTW.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Thanks for the article! I wish we had a perfect translation of the Hebrew text but KJV did a very good job none the less. With that said,that is the reason why we have Hebrew/Aramaic concordances. Still does not change the fact that your "prince" has come already.
jtlabs 2 years ago
You will never find a perfect translation that is why we jews do not rely on them. The KJV has altered Dan 9 significantly to deceive you! If you take away the rrors of the KJV you will see that Dan ( talks about 2 time periods and so the prince is Titus and the other annointed is Cyrus.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Using the metrics you provided in the wiki article, it did not change the meaning for the worse, but for the better. The anointing of Cyrus is not the start date, Ezra 7 fulfills this prophecy. That text, is not implying to start at a date in which an anointed king issues the decree. I will get into this in detail later. Let it suffice for now that Ezra 7 fulfills this in either interpretation of anointed (future or past)
jtlabs 2 years ago
Dan breaks down the 70 wk prophecy like he breaks down Dan 2 with the beast in ch 7. Its just the details of the larger prophecy, its not separating the years, that makes no sense. God is clear and plain and leaves little to humans in the way of interpretaton. The fact that Daniel gives a start and an end marks for the 70 wks leaves little to the imagination. Starting at Cyrus has no point in scripture and need not be mentioned if 70 years can be randomly applied.
jtlabs 2 years ago
70 wks rather
jtlabs 2 years ago
btw, the word "decieve." I appreciate that you are worried about my salvation. I want you to open your eyes to the truth. If we take scripture literally and symbolically only when its obviously applicable like the beast and days in prophecy. You then can see that Gods explains everything, and all we need is look in history book to verify, w/ hardly any interpretation.
jtlabs 2 years ago
Finally, Malachi 4:4 is what the whole atonement is about, if the law did not exist, then there would be no sin. Your other points about it seems Malachi would do this and that is not biblical but human reasoning. God sent his prophets before all major events. For Jesus, it was John the Baptist.
jtlabs 2 years ago
Malachi 4 of course refers to Elijah paving the way prior to the day of the Lord. John the Baptist however was not Elijah: And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No." John 1:21
Menashe65 2 years ago
John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 40:3. Do you believe in reincarnation? Because that is not what God teaches. Did not Elisha receive a double portion of Elijas spirit? In the same way, John received the spirit of Elijah, the same spirit that all the prophets of the past had in perhaps lesser portions. (See Isaiah 63:11 and Luke 1:3-1.), As far as being a prophet, when did anyone in scripture claim to ever be a prophet. This was a title given, not a title claimed.
jtlabs 2 years ago
I believe what my scriptures tell me not some other embellishment:
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. Mal 4:5
Anything else is just spin!!!
Menashe65 2 years ago
I can respect that, but I do not agree with it as a spin. John filled the prophecy in Isa 40:3, Isa 63:11, Mal 3:1. In addition, Jesus fulfilled the time the Messiah was scheduled to come outlined in Dan 9:24. It all fits.
jtlabs 2 years ago
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two
weeks: (Dan 9:25)
The Hebrew text makes explicit that "seven weeks" and "sixty-two weeks" are
separate durations. The first referring back to the time from the word to
restore till the anointed prince, while the second refers to the time
Jerusalem will remain rebuilt. This is how the earliest editions of the King
James Version (1611-1785) represent the text.
Menashe65 2 years ago
The Masoretic text makes the
same meaning explicit through punctuating the verse so there can be no
doubt. However, in 1785, an annotated edition appeared which added an
explanatory note to the verse suggesting that "a colon should be placed at
the end of this sentence", that is after the seven weeks and sixty-two
weeks.
Menashe65 2 years ago
13 years later in 1798
the suggested emendation moved out of the explanatory note and into the text
[6].
6. Ostervald, et al., The Holy Bible.with Annotations (London: Harrison,
1785) ad loc Dan 9:24
Menashe65 2 years ago
Not sure I understand your point concerning the Masoretic text.
jtlabs 2 years ago
Or you can go to Dan 9:24, and it tells you how long. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." 70 weeks = 490 years, Messiah has already come.
jtlabs 2 years ago
If Messiah has come then we see universal peace/ knowledge of God, a rebuilt temple, return of the Jewish people to the land of Israel: see Ezek 37, Isaiah 2, 11
Menashe65 2 years ago
Amen, these verses refer to the second coming of the Messiah and the ressurrection, the new Jerusalem, outlined clearly in the book of Revelation. In case you have not noticed, Jerusalem Currently is not quite the land flowing w/ milk and honey. Thinks will be made new.
And you still did not address Dan 9:24, cannot just ignore scripture because it is convenient to your ideology.
jtlabs 2 years ago
In the case of Tanach the second coming cannot be found and your Jesus failed to fulfill any conclusive prophecies. Dan 9:24 of course refers to the whole 490 year period with verse 25, 26 supplying further details of that period. The ruler who is to come and destroy the city has to achieve this within in the 490 years.
Menashe65 2 years ago
This event was in 70CE by Titus. If your Jesus died circa 69 weeks (30 CE) leaving 1 week = 7 years for the city and temple to be destroyed, it of course never happened but 43 years later or 5 weeks too late.
Menashe65 2 years ago
You also might like to inquire why Messiah is capitalized in your Christian translations of my Jewish scriptures and why "The" Messiah has been added, I say added because there is no definite article (THE) in the Hebrew. Also why in the 39 cases of the Hebrew "Moshiac" in 37 cases is translated correctly (in your bible) as "an anointed one" but in Daniel 9 twice Messiah appears!! You also might ask about that semi-colon in verse 25. I have posted about this above.
Menashe65 2 years ago
I do not see your point, Messiah only appears twice in the entire Bible anyway, both in Daniel. and I am not sure where you getting at w/ the punctuation, I know punctuation is not inspired. Where are you going with this?
jtlabs 2 years ago
You have a translation of the word of God we Jews have the Word of God (the original Hebrew / Aramaic). The word "Moshiac" is translated correctly 37 times in your bible as an "anointed one" but 2 times incorrectly in your translation of the bible as "The Messiah" found in your translation of Daniel 9. If you look into the other 37 cases you will find that "an anointed one" applies to kings (non Jewish ones like Cyrus), prophets. priests and even vessels.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Or Jewish ones like David, or his descendant Yeshua, the King of Kings. What good is having the word of god if you do not believe what is written in it? God wrote about what He was going to do before it happened specifically so you would believe, but you choose to honor your traditions over the word of God,, you place him in a box, as if God needs to rest his head in a earthly sanctuary.
jtlabs 2 years ago
Part of my traditions are these: Isaiah 2, 11 and Ezek 37: Universal world peace/ knowledge of God, a temple and a King as well as resurrection of the dead Dan 12. Your jesus has done none of these.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Again Amen, that is for end times, Isa 2:2 is describing Dan 2:34, 45 and Eze 37. These events also described in Rev 21: 2,3. the resurrection is described in Dan 12 corresponds with Rev 2:5-6. Remember, ISA 49:6 had to occur first, which was fulfilled with Jesus. Don't listen to the tradition of human teachers, reach the word and see.
jtlabs 2 years ago
You are projecting your beliefs back onto Isaiah 49. Imagine the time before Jesus and ask yourself who is speaking? Begin at verse one. You are only seeing what you want to see.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Indeed I am, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. While it was Gods original plan for the literal Jews to be a light unto the world, the truth is they weren't, not until God sent Jesus. When you believe in Jesus, a veil is lifted up and you see all along that your scripture, from beginning to end, was pointing to Jesus/Yeshua all along. Its a situation of type meets anti type. Do not let your pride stop you from knowing the truth. Remember, God made man. "The meek shall inherit the earth."
jtlabs 2 years ago
But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
psalm 37:11. There is nothing new in Jesus' teaching here! When all said and done all you have is belief in Jesus and no actual empirical evidence of his Messiahship.
Menashe65 2 years ago
The whole Hebrew scripture is evidence. You miss the point of your own scripture. All things pointed to God sending his only begotten son to die for your sins. The whole point of your scripture is salvation and obedience to God and his Laws. Thats it. You think in earthly human ways, and are too proud. God does not want the proud but the meek in his kingdom. He cares about all humanity and you have a problem accepting that. That will be your own down fall as it was the pharisees of old.
jtlabs 2 years ago
I will just remind you of the countless blood libels, pogroms, inquisitions and of course the recent holocaust inspired by non other than Martin Luther upon the Jewish people. These are the many atrocities done in the name of your god man Jesus. WE THE JEWISH PEOPLE KNOW OUR OWN SCRIPTURE AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE NOT FALLEN FOR THE BIGGEST EVER LIE IN HISTORY (JESUS). i AM LOOKING FORWARD TO G-D'S JUDGEMENT ON YOUR god man MESSIAH.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Martin Luther? Martin Luther had nothing to do w/ the holocaust or inspiring it. Hitler was a Catholic. Google image Hitler and Catholicism. Catholicism has little to do with real Christianity. Unfortunately , most faiths today fall into the same boat.
jtlabs 2 years ago
and Jesus, brought glory to God the father. We pray to God in the name of Jesus, our high priest who is attending the heavenly sanctuary (temple).
jtlabs 2 years ago
And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul; Deut 10 v12
Menashe65 2 years ago
Dan v24 is a summary of all that happens in the 70 wk period. Dan v27 fulfills this by making an end of sins , reconciliation for iniquity, and everlasting and righteousness (all atonement). The anointing took place after 69 weeks, (62 after the 7 first), and the "cut off" of the Messiah was done in v27 in the midst of the week. Therefore, the events not summaries in v24 and the beginning of v26 are left for anytime after the cutoff the Messiah for humanity, not necessary during the 70 weeks.
jtlabs 2 years ago
therefore, your anointed one (if you prefer), already came.
jtlabs 2 years ago
search in Wikepedia "Daniels 70" weeks to see the article showing the changes made to our texts via christian translations
Menashe65 2 years ago
Deu 4:16 referrs to "making" an idolatrous image. Jesus is no more a creation of man then you are. If you look in the context of the exodus, even when Moses came down with the first stone tablets and seen the Israelites worshipping a golden calve, you can then see what the meaning was. As far as having no form, it sais they saw no form, weather he has form, I can argue that he was not incarnate yet. However, see Gen 1:26, Exo: 33,23.
jtlabs 2 years ago
Just an additional comment, Jesus is not a creation at all. Deu 4:16 refers to a creation made with hands.
jtlabs 2 years ago
God [is] not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? num 23:17, also 1 sam 15:29,hosea 11:9.
Menashe65 2 years ago
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; [There is] no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That [there is] none besides Me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; isaiah 45:5,6
What could God have said to make clearer his oneness and alonnes than the above?
Menashe65 2 years ago
Do not know what happen to what I wrote, but I will try to recap. At the time, he was not a man, but the Word became flesh, he became the messiah you were waiting for and lived the sinless life that our ancestors and present selves failed to do no and in the Garden. See Isa 53. You have to stop thinking in a pure human way and believe in your Messiah. Are not all things possible with God? Is dwelling as a human impossible for him to atone for our sins impossible for him? Isaiah 46:10.
jtlabs 2 years ago
Perhaps you could point to me a scripture in my Tanach that tells me to believe in the Messiah as explicitly and exhaustively as your Mark 16:16:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
My Tanach is indeed more exhaustive. "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, (see Deut 30:15-19) to see what God says.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Its juts a matter of proving that God came in human form to atone for your sins. Thats why he gave you prophecy, he told of his coming in advance so you would believe.
jtlabs 2 years ago
No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for him-- Psalm 49:7
Menashe65 2 years ago
That text is referring to fallen man. Not God who came in the flesh. Or do you think the sacrifice of an animal can redeem us? "No, But God will redeem my life [f] from the grave; he will surely take me to himself." Psalms 49:15 Ask yourself, what is God redeeming us from?
jtlabs 2 years ago
"That text is referring to fallen man" where do you get this from?
What can redeem us: Again, when a wicked [man] turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Ezek 18:27, 28
Menashe65 2 years ago
With what shall I come before the LORD, [And] bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old?Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn [for] my transgression, The fruit of my body [for] the sin of my soul?He has shown you, O man, what [is] good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God? mic 6:6-8
Menashe65 2 years ago
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. Psalm 51:16,17
Menashe65 2 years ago
Why did God not delight in sacrifices?
jtlabs 2 years ago
Amen, but he required this of the Israelites, why?
jtlabs 2 years ago
Everything except one item mentioned here under inspiration was used for the atonement. What made this author, under inspiration, mention anything about a "firstborn" . "And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:40-41
jtlabs 2 years ago
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Ezek 18:20
Menashe65 2 years ago
Why did the Levities perform animal sacrifices? And how long have you been living a sinless life?
jtlabs 2 years ago
Priests not Levites offered blood sacrifices and blood sacrifices only atone for un-intentional sins:
And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.V 27,28 ..
Menashe65 2 years ago
But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. see also Lev 4:27, 5:15-17
Menashe65 2 years ago
Your scripture lies when it says: And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Heb 9:22
For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and [without] teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. Hos 3:4,5
Menashe65 2 years ago
In the meantime : O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive [us] graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. Hos 14:1,2 God does not need sacrifice, He wants us (see Jer 7) but if we do sin we can confess with our mouths and our sins are forgiven despite what your new testament says. I sin and my God forgives me!!
Menashe65 2 years ago
How does Hosea 3:4,5 relate to Hebrews 9:22? I don't understand what you're trying to point out
deaeme7 1 year ago
The relationship is that Christians often level the charge that Jews do not have an atonement because there is no temple. Hosea 3:4,5 points out that the absence of a temple is fully anticipated by scripture. In any case blood atonement is actually meant for unintentional sins only according to Lev 4:27, 5:14, 17, num 15:27. Atonement is provided regardless of a temple see Hosea 14:1,2. Rather doing the right thing as opposed to vicarious atonement is taught in scripture (see Ezek 18.
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 how is the absence of a temple antipated by the scripture? What I see happening in Hosea is the illustration of the rebellion of God's people and because of that, they will be without someone to lead them until Israel returns to Him and repents. I see that as a consenquence of rebellion and not an anticipation.
deaeme7 1 year ago
@Menashe65 How is the absence of a temple anticipated? What I see in Hosea is an illustration of the rebellion of God's people and because of that, the result is them being without someone leading them and being lost until they return to God and repent. I don't see any anticipation but a consequence of their disobedience.
deaeme7 1 year ago
@deaeme7 o i thought my reply wasn't posted so i wrote it two times.
deaeme7 1 year ago
Numbers 15:27,28 for the above
Menashe65 2 years ago
you said"That text is referring to fallen man" where do you get this from? " What other man is he talking about? See Gen 3
jtlabs 2 years ago
I will stick with what my Jewish scriptures (Tanach) say:
God is not a man, He changes not, there is only Him and no one else and I must believe in Him and no other etc.. The law is keep-able BTW "For this commandment which I command you today [is] not [too] mysterious for you, nor [is] it far off.v11 But the word [is] very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. v14 (Deut 30)
Menashe65 2 years ago
The Tanach (whcih is the majority of what I been quoting) again is not talking about his physical form, but his word, That never changes, read it in the context. In the Tanach, "And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him (Daniel 7:13.)
jtlabs 2 years ago
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; [There is] no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That [there is] none besides Me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other; isaiah 45:5,6
"For I [am] the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
being incarnate would be a change
Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is], God. mark 10:18
Menashe65 2 years ago
One signifies plurality. Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be ONE flesh." Also see Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in OUR image" As far as God never changing, he means his word stands forever. His word never changes, as you stated "God [is] not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?"
jtlabs 2 years ago
I will point you to the next verse after Gen 1:26
So God created man in His [own] image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. v27
Us . . . Our . . . Our. God speaks as the Creator-king, announcing His crowning work to the members of His heavenly court. (see 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; I Kings 22:19-23; Job 15:8; Jeremiah 23:18), NIV Study Bible, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1985, p. 7.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Perhaps you could enlighten people here as to how God is both male and female? Perhaps you could get Mary the mother of Jesus into the trinity to try and balance things up?
Menashe65 2 years ago
Not sure what you mean by God being male and female? And Mary was just the mother of Jesus, nothing more. What your referring to is Pagan/Catholic teaching.
jtlabs2 2 years ago
That Pagan teaching pre-dates both the RC church and Jesus. You should try and do some homework on: Baal, Adonis, Attis, Isis to name but a few. In any case Jesus only got promoted to god status at the council of Nicea 325 CE. Prior to this the Church was mainly Arian.
Menashe65 2 years ago
I'm very familiar w/ the pagan teaching, and I do not see how this fits in with what I believe.
jtlabs 2 years ago
Thats a nice thought, but you have to ignore the fact that the Hebrew word here for God is "Elohim", which is plural and used 2,700 times in the old testament, which is 10 more times the "El", which is used to address God the Father.
jtlabs 2 years ago
There is an enormous difficulty with the interpretation that the name Elohim signifies a sort of plurality in the godhead; for if Elohim implies a plurality of persons, how can missionaries explain that the identical word Elohim in Tanach refers to Moses as well? Regarding Moses, in Exodus 7:1, the Torah says,
And the LORD said unto Moses, "See, I have made thee a god (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." (KJV)
Menashe65 2 years ago
In that verse its plural intensive. And again, God is ONE, just like Adam and Eve was one flesh. I'm not saying Gods, but the Godhead, made up of 3 persons.
jtlabs 2 years ago
continiued: It doesn't mean His physical body, but rather, his actions & position of love and service to others.
Menashe65 2 years ago
Mindstormer:The word "form" used in Phil. 2:6 should be seen as "nature". The Greek word morphē, here denotes all the essential characteristics and attributes of God. In this sense, it represents the manner in which Gods eternal qualities and characteristics manifested themselves.This is also indicated in Phil 2:7 where the same word is used to refer to Him taking upon Himself the "form" of a servant.
Menashe65 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The word "form" used in Phil. 2:6 should be seen as "character". The Greek word morphē, here denotes all the essential characteristics and attributes of God. In this sense, it represents the manner in which Gods eternal qualities and characteristics manifested themselves.
This is also indicated in Phil 2:7 where the same word is used to refer to Him taking upon Himself the "form" of a servant. It doesn't mean His physical body, but rather, his actions & position of love and service to others.
Mindstormer 2 years ago
Comment removed
Mindstormer 2 years ago
Even better way explaining the same thing
MELOM64 3 years ago