Food for thought: Romans 1 suggests that "homosexuality" (the term is a self-contradiction, linguistically speaking) is - unlike other sins - not just a sin, but has a symptomatic character: in as far as it becomes more and more prevalent and open as society turns more and more away from God. Thus it is - in Romans 1 - shown as the consequence of idolatry. And it is evident: it's nto only widespread, but also supported and promoted in liberal societies.
G-D is torn w/in through his own evolution. He evolved, im am embarrassed to say, from the resurrecting Flesh of ATUM, that created infinity by AUTO-Fellatio (not kidding: Spilling the MILKEY IVER OPF LIFE was sacred, THEN!) The MONO-Creator that evolved by the [ideology] of the ancestorZ of the Rabbinical "P"riestship is obsessed w/ PRO-Creation but not with "senseless pleasure".
Circumcision became, for reducing senseless pleasure
@MrOskarthebest LOL! Salut from Germany. So, niot my language either.The Abrahamic G-D EVOLVED.It was a consolidation process,that can be likened to the forced FUSION of companies:The bigger companies do not appreciate the other potential COMPETITORZ around them and they HEAD,to CONSUME them.SeXXuality,Divine Orgasm USED TO be sacred.Then it became consumed by the G-D of the ProCreation of the chosen people,that requires"NO OTHER G-D a-side me" and all sexuality w/out ProCreation became SIN.
Even though their is nothing wrong with homosexuality, I will give you credit for not being amongst the theists who single out homosexuality, like it's some sort of obsession for them :)
@stevenp25100- "Changing the subject AGAIN?"- the subject is simply Justin's opinion on homosexuality....based on...the bible. Thus, addressing the issues of the bible is paramount I would think. "The Bible was said to be wrong only for scientist/archaeologists/historians to catch up later?"- No supernatural claims of the bible have been verified as fact by scientists, archeologist, or historians. In fact, no supernatural claims for any religion. They are merely...assertions.
@stevenp25100- "Just stop you have no idea what your talking about" Afraid so. How in the world can you be a psychology major and not know this? Zoosexuals and pedosexuals are not classified as sexual orientations, and none deal with interaction with consenting adults. For the major obvious reason that they inflict harm & abuse, which is why they are classified as disorders. These people typically have the classified sexual orientations of regular adults. You should know that.
@stevenp25100- Why is the theory of evolution accepted as fact? Because the theory is based on already observable EVIDENCE. It attempt to explain how the evidence got where it has, not whether or not it occurred. Archeology exposes the many false claims of the bible. What was discovered do not support what the bible depict. Simple. The bible is not accurate history, it's idealized...altered. We have the evidence of real history to counter it. Starting from the very first book of genesis.
@stevenp25100- "You're doing exactly what you accuse Christians of doing, you have made up your mind despite all evidence to the contary"- which is....none. I've heard all the claims. That's nothing new, I study ancient religions. Christianity is no different in regard to evidence for a deity than the others. Their is evidence of BELIEF in these religions, yes. No evidence for a deity. "Differences is you claim to use science,Christian believe the Bible"- Science....provide EVIDENCE.
@stevenp25100- and millions of nucleo and sequenced bases. That is the reason they aren't looking for "a" gene. Environment also does not cause gay men to respond to pheromones the same way heterosexual women do, that is biological. Nor does it cause the brain patterns in the mind that deal with arousal to light up concerning same sex. People don't choose to have heterosexual attractions. Rather that informs them of their sexual orientation.
@stevenp25100- Environmental has long been explored for years and discounted in research studies. The only environments considered are hormonal prenatal uterine environment. There is more evidence the suggest it is biological in nature. Environment does not cause chromosome inactivation in mothers of gay children. We know chromosomes contain genetic instructions. No one says one gene causes orientation. Genes combine functions. we know each chromosome can contain up to over a thousand genes,
@stevenp25100- Odd that you claim to be a psychology major when most psychologist classify homosexuality as a normal variation of human sexual orientation. In fact, they warn against attempting to change orientation due to the mental stress it causes. I'm sure would know the difference between behavior and attraction. Including the fact that psychologists are not biologists. They do not study genome sequencing, the area of genetics, cells, ecology, evolution, so on.
@rooio3 Just stop you have no idea what your talking about and it is becoming rather obvious. "most psychologist probaly would say homosexuality is a normal variation for politcal reasons, using that logic there is no reason zoosexuals and pedosexuals are not. Science has no conclusive evidence to determine the reason for different "orientations". So your BELIEF that it is genetic is no better supported than mine that it is enviormental. In fact, there is much more evidence in my favor.
@stevenp25100- Never said morality was a christian concept, rather christians have created their own view of "morality". Christians are not the only people on the planet who follow moral codes, which have nothing to do with religion. They infuse religion into it. Scientist use evidence. There is none with christianity. There is only evidence that people believed it in ancient times, just like any other religion. You should look more deeply into what scientific "reason" actually is.
@stevenp25100- advancement. It's not going to work. That has everything to due with this subject, because christains seem to terrorize these people simply on that basis, and it's ridiculous. You can't use something that has so many holes in its conception as validation and think it will be taken seriously. Instead of wasting time on "sins", study the reality of biology, human behavior, the mind, things that are real and leave factual data.
@rooio3 Pretty sure Christians have addressed the exsistence of God, once or twice. I'm a psychology major so studing human behavior and the mind is what I do, but what's funny is I can tell you don't. You seem to think Christians rely on assumptions and scientist don't; nothing could be farther from the truth. Alot of your fellow atheist would not agree morality is a christian concept, but I'm glad you see it that way. Bottomline, the scientific "reason" for homosexuality is "inconclusive".
@rooio3 "Scientist use evidence.There is none with christianity." I really don't know where to go from here. You can pick and choose what you want to believe all you want but it is rather ignorant to pretend the facts are only on your side. It is also hypocritical to ignore evidence that opposes your side; You're doing exactly what you accuse Christians of doing, you have made up your mind despite all evidence to the contary. Differences is you claim to use science,Christian believe the Bible.
@stevenp25100- Christians should first address the reality of the existence of an invisible being- (something common with all other religions), before placing anything as "sins". That's the point. Sinning is a perception created by religion based off claims invented by man of a god that has never been seen at all, simply recorded on paper. Giving scriptures validates nothing. Scriptures are not proof. You can't address homosexuality on claims of limited ancient belief systems in this age of
@rooio3 That is what it would look like if no God existed. However, A God (YHWY) does exist and as opposed to your rejection of his existence, he indeed did create the universe, sin occured and is a moral offense towards a perfect, holy and just God. He inspired men by his Holy Spirit to communicate through writing, as well as other events. It would make perfect sense because unlike today, they didn't have TV's or record players to record God on. Scripture validates it, if its Gods and it is.
@xchampx-"However, A God (YHWY) does exist"- that is merely a baseless subjective statement, Justin. What you just said does not prove it to be factual. There is as much evidence for the existence of YHWY (based off the earlier Canaanite deities Israel just happened to emerged out of) as there is for Hercules, Zeus, and so on. NOTHING. Merely empty claims. So no... it ISN't God's doing. Just human doing from human perception. Ancient man has a history of doing this. Nothing new.
@xchampx- The other major problem with scripture is that it has shown itself to be inaccurate in depicting historic events conflicting with actual discovered evidence. So we know the writers were deliberately changing things around to fit their particular views. Another problem is there were many separate views due to the fact that the scriptures were written in different time periods. We have the evidence of where their influences came from. It's not that much of a shock.
@rooio3 Changing the subject AGAIN? Would you like to discuss all the times The Bible was said to be wrong only for scientis/archaeologists/historians to catch up later?
It is already here that dishonesty starts. IF you were honest THEN you would be obligated to say: "i BELIEVE that [my] G-D does exist" going just one step further, you would have to even admit "and I do that, despite multiple CircumstanCial evidence from my scripture"
One CC ev. is that [your] G-D requires that GayZ be punished on Earth. Your Bible is clear on that. This is an ANTHROPOGENE concept that services the basic instinct hate on minorities such as GayZ.
"Are there 2 different sets of chemicals that make somebody "love" because sadly, this is the atheist case." Uh, we have an estimated 200 trillion cells and each one performs millions of chemical reactions. Love is an emotion...a concept of the mind. Obviously without the mind, it would not be possible. The mind too is composed of numerous chemical reactions. Arousal is caused by chemical reactions within the body as well. It's not that hard to understand how these can be caused by chemicals.
Gay people love others without having sex with them just like any heterosexual. It's a stupid argument. Homosexuality is an orientation...a natural attraction. It's not going to vanish no matter how hard people "wish" it away, which now in 2011 should be apparent. We have learned so much now in regard to the sex chromosomes and human sexuality, unknown in the past. Holding on to ancient thinking using modern knowledge will progress nowhere.
@rooio3 That wasn't my argument, i was just in specific response to her statement, if gay love is wrong, God is wrong... umm no. I can't tell people what to do obviously, but there is no reason for people to lie to themselves and pretend the Bible says it's ok. If want to call it acient thinking, that's your right. Regarding science, nothing has shown homosexuality is genetic or natural. I'm not wishing anything away, I really don't care but dont manipulate scripture OR science.
@stevenp25100- It would be wise to FIRST prove the existence of such an elusive deity before blissfully following illogical claims. There is no reason to believe the bible in the first place in regard to discovered evidence dismissing biblical claims, let alone advance technology that show what reality present to us. "Regarding science, nothing has shown homosexuality is genetic or natural."- then you haven't been paying attention for obvious reasons. Update please.
@rooio3 I'm used to atheists changing the subject,and it's old. It would be wise to FIRST recognize the audience and purpose of the video before responding, as he said it was about Christians placing homosexuality above other sins. Sinning is the issue. All I was did was give someone the scripture they asked for. Christians belive the Bible is the authority on sin. If you want to debate the existence of God or accuracy of the Bible, I'm game, we can do so on videos about those topics.
@stevenp25100 'or natural' ~ please define what you mean by science has not proven it to be natural? After all it's certainly not proven it to be unnatural.
@rooio3 "Gay people love others without having sex with them just like any heterosexual."This begs the question of "what is love?" and it seems that you are trying to make a clear distinction between Eros and Action.This must be asked: What is love? and What is the difference between love of heterosexual/homosexual love that you just mentioned and that between brotherly love or family love. Are there 2 different sets of chemicals that make somebody "love" because sadly, this is the atheist case.
@Anjaani311 Well, I can't tell you what to believe .You asked me what Jesus said, I showed you, it's your choice. Jesus taught not to judge other peoples sin over yours(Mat 7:2 sawdust vs Plank) which I believe was one of XchampsX's points of this video and I agree. I never said love was wrong, but FYI, I love alot of people I wouldn't have sex with =) (Love ≠ sex) The danger is convincing yourself it's not a sin and thus not repenting like you would for other sins. Satan loves hidden sin.
@Anjaani311 Well,it makes no sense to say you believe only in words in red and not the rest of Bible nor to take the position that if Jesus did not specifically condemn it than it's not a sin esp when it's clearly discussed Bibically. However, in this case you're in luck, as Jesus said "Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh"
@stevenp25100 Yeah, Jesus also advocates child abuse ~ Matthew 15:4-7, murder and death ~ Matthew 11:20, destroying families ~ Matthew 10:21 and husband to leave their wives to follow him.
So while you think it's OK to cherry pick something that doesn't even outright say homosexuality is wrong to support your argument, I'll cherry pick to show how cruel and unloving the Christian god and his son can be.
@DeeDemonwitch@DeeDemonwitch the whole point of the video was not cherry picking a particular sin, I was answering the question someone asked me, they wanted a scriputre so I gave it to them. For someone who choose the name "DeeDemonwitch" you clearly are taking scripture out of context to meet your own personal agenda.
@stevenp25100 I know the video is not about cherry picking, but your response was cherry picked. Your quote does not condone homosexuality. Where as the the quotes I cherry picked involve the destruction of family. The family that you seem to think the Bible and Christianity upholds so very dearly.
You are the one taking scripture out of context to imply Jesus condones homosexuality, whereas (as far as I'm aware) he never did once in the NT. Try not to sociology project, it backfires.
@DeeDemonwitch My response was not "cherry picked" it was in response to a question I was asked. How is Jesus saying "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?" Don't you think he would have added... Unless thou was created homosexual... ? Clearly Jesus it stating God's plan of a man and a woman. (this is ignoring the scriptures that specifically speak on homosexuality.) Clearly, you're intentionally twisting his words.
@stevenp25100 It's generality, it says nothing about homosexuality or people who remain single. My quotes are relevant in that clearly your god and Jesus don't care that much for family life.
Seeing there is no proof that your god exists or that Jesus actually said anything he's quoted as saying, you cannot impose it's values onto everyone.
You have still not answer my question: what do you mean by 'natural'?
@DeeDemonwitch I was asked by someone who said they believed in Jesus's words, what Jesus said...according to the Bible. Authority of the Bible wasn't the question and is a separate "debate" if you want to call it that. The scriptures you posted have nothing to do with what you said they do, but is what you would expect from someone who voluntarily choose the s/n "Deedemonwitch" lets not pretend you're objective.
@stevenp25100 My name is just a silly name. Do you think I believe in demons and witches? That would be the Bible, not me.
You are using the Bible and Jesus to say homosexuality is wrong, yet what you quoted does not say that. You imply that Jesus and the Bible are all for hetero couples, yet some parts of the Bible involve destroying the family.
The OT condemn 'man lying with man', but then it condemns a lot of things that are irrelevant to today.
@Anjaani311 The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a perversion and a sin. If you don't accept the authority of the Bible that's your decision, but I really don't see how you feel the right to determine what is or what isn't a sin. In that case, couldn't I just decided there are no sins, if we are all allowed our own defintion of sinning?
@xchampx-A quite rational approach, because then you KNOW what your dealing with from proof, and not guessing as blind faith require. Objective opinions can be justified by objective evidence. And reality is objective. An elusive god that people pretend to talk to as a real person is not objective reality. That's an imaginary friend. You can't have objective anything on something that present no logical evidence. Saying god is a moral law giver do not justify it as fact. Simply an statement.
@xchampx-with the frontal lobes being most pronounced, because the executive functions (reasoning, abstract thought, self-control, planning) come from here. So it's not much of a leap to know why we are so different than other mammals concerning intelligence. End that chemical process and everything stops. "I don't understand why New Atheists are the ONLY ones.." it's quite simple. There isn't a "if god exists" opening. We don't go by presumptions, just verifiable evidence.
@xchampx-"but obviously there is more than "just chemicals" that make you think about many different issues." The brain is composed of billions of cells. These cells pass signals to each other via as many as 1000 trillion (1015, 1 quadrillion) synaptic connections. It control functions of the entire human body. End that and you can't go on. Since our brains have evolved over other typical mammals, it would explain why we think about such issues. Our cereal cortex has the most spatial expansion
@Nazam44 Regardless of severity, if you commit any one sin, you deserve hell. So I think he was trying to say in this video was that straight people and gay people are ALL sinners, so we can't look down on them just because they've committed a specific sin that we haven't.
I think our default attraction is the opposite sex; however, some people are heavily tempted to the same sex. But when people say that someone has no choice in the matter and they can't do anything about it - guess what, you can do all things through Christ! Homosexuality is just one of the many things Jesus died for on the cross, & with Him it can be overcome.
I agree for the most part but I think difference that kinda separates some sins from others is the organized movement to make the sin acceptable. I guess the biggest example is abortion and homosexuality. Like, I dont think there are groups that support spreading adultery or lying. I completely agree though, all have sinned and we need to be preaching the gospel. The millions spent on preventing gay marriage could certainly go to better causes.
May I recommend the documentary called For the Bible Tells Me So. I thought, before I watched it, that it was going to be an anti-religious movie, but I was pleasantly surprised. It really opened my eyes to some of the verses in the bible that relate to homosexuality and the interpretations thereof.
I disagree that sins are equally the same. Some sins are more severe than others which is why in a court sentences are different. For example, stealing candy from a baby is not equal to killing some one. But thanks for the video!
@stevenp25100 For example Jesus says that if you sin against the son of Man it can be forgiven but if you sin against the Holy Spirit it will never be forgiven and so all sins are not equal or the same. We could also add sins against the law of Moses and we will see that not all sins deserve the same punishment. For example killing a slave does not have the same punishment for killing a fellow Israelite. The shows that the law of Moses did not regard all sins to be equally the same.
@Nazam44 The wages of sin is death.Romans 6:23 This occurs for any sin. Why? because God is perfect and Holy. The can be seen in Genesis. To us it's just a simple disobedience, but God cursed the earth and mankind in Genesis 2. Sin goes against him and by committing large or small acts of sin has the same value of breaking Gods commandments and laws. While, I will admit certain sins bring more damage to our life style (i.e.murder, stealing and adultery). James 2:10 also says the same.
@Nazam44 I don't know if you're intentionally being misleading or not, but as we know blaspheming the holy spirit is the ONLY unpardonable sin. I guess that makes my point. Concerning the law of moses, again I know you're aware that as christians we are not under the law. Jesus was about our heart "anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment"..now what would that jugdment be? Sorry trying to elevate your sin above other people's sin is rather "pharisee-ish"
@stevenp25100- what specifically make it a sin? Because they don't generally procreate? A lot of gays, especially religious, have done so naturally simply through sexual behavior, not on the basis of their sexual attractions. Procreation isn't a requirement and not everyone want children. Is it viewed as unnatural? It wouldn't occur in nature among animals & insects. In fruit flies, homosexuality is biological according to research because they genetically altered genes to turn
@rooio3 "what specifically make it a sin?" Well, it would definitely having to be because God made it to be between a man and women. It is clear throughout the scriptures.
"Procreation isn't a requirement and not everyone want children." I find that interesting. Isn't that the whole point of life? To procreate? Otherwise there is no purpose to be here-even though that in and of itself is meaningless. We are just here waiting to die, like we all are destined to-a universe apart from God.
@xchampx-"Well, it would definitely having to be because God made it to be between a man and women"- that doesn't show how it is morally corrupt. "Isn't that the whole point of life? To procreate?"- then everyone would want to have children, yet they don't. Many people don't have sex to procreate. And homosexuality hasn't stop procreation, rather research suggest it is tied to birth rates within a population. Paul'[s statement still prove nothing about naturalism.
@rooio3 "that doesn't show how it is morally corrupt" Yes. Once, again you fail to understand objective morality, which fails on all sides in the atheists worldiview. You are simply a consequentialist. There is no right and wrong. Just consequences. Still there isn't right and wrong in consequentialism, just survival like you stated in the past conversations. The atheist is caught in a dilemma. either life is meant to procreate or it's not. You can't procreate through homosexual activity.
@xchampx-"Once, again you fail to understand objective morality" or rather you do. You view objective morality only coming from a god. I see objective morality in the material existence of things that leave evidence. "You can't procreate through homosexual activity."- homosexual activity is behavior. There are a lot of sexual behaviors you can't procreate with. Attractions are not behavior.
@rooio3 "or rather you do." I don't understand why New Atheists are the ONLY ones that don't see that if God exists and created all things (including objective moral values), that he isn't the reason for objective moral values. It is quote simple, if life has no value, meaning or purpose there is no value in morals and nobody can give an objective opinion, just subjective. God, being one who has no one above him and the creator of all things, is the only objective moral law giver.
@stevenp25100- them bisexual, but could not turn the flies completely heterosexual as other heterosexual fruit flies. New testament says it's unnatural, yet at the same time, Paul appeal to biology to show long hair on men is unnatural compared with women. We know natural hair length is entirely genetic, varying from person to person. Can Jesus heal same sex attractions? That has been stated for years with many devoted gay christians who truly believed it, clearly not wanting the attractions.
"Paul appeal to biology to show long hair on men is unnatural compared with women." Historical context is important to know why Paul said that. Samson can be a comparison.
"That has been stated for years with many devoted gay christians who truly believed it, clearly not wanting the attractions." Still, the same could be said for straight married men (or single). We fight not to lust after them, yet we clearly do not want to. Read Romans 7. Even Paul clarifies it by himself.
@xchampx- "We fight not to lust after them, yet we clearly do not want to." Gay people don't merely "lust". They love as well. Like straight people love each other in a committed relationship. Straight lust is bound within their attraction to the opposite sex. Therefore the same could be said for gays. So that still does not say anything about an orientation being morally corrupt.
@rooio3 "They love as well" Yes, and I love my brother and my Christian brothers and father. So, this begs the question: What is love? Is it an emotion? Is it an action? In the naturalistic worldview, its 'just chemicals in the brain'. This means its meaningless. However, Theists believe in the Spirit, which makes more sense than "chemical reactions" in the brain.
@xchampx-"In the naturalistic worldview, its 'just chemicals in the brain'. This means its meaningless."- once again, it doesn't have to have meaning to exist. "However, Theists believe in the Spirit, which makes more sense than "chemical reactions" in the brain"- right, chemical reactions which we know are real bodily functions...
@rooio3 "right, chemical reactions which we know are real bodily functions..." I am not denying the chemical reactions have been shown to happen, but obviously there is more than "just chemicals" that make you think about many different issues. I believe everything you do, but I believe there is more to it than "just chemicals".
@stevenp25100-Many find their attractions remain, while others realize they have bisexual attractions.Yet it may not reflect their sexual behavior.So beside the bible's mythic depiction of the sodomites, and the elusive new testament scriptures influenced by greek stocisim of nature and unnaturalism,(who's writing style Paul, being greek educated, seem to mimic which include homosexuality), why would christians equate this to moral decay-especially given the biological markers found so far?
@xchampx-"If the purpose of life is not to procreate (in the naturalistic worldview without God), then what is it and why?" Procreation is simply the promotion of genetic variation, which is not unusual to evolutionary biology. Evidence of this has been found in research thus far which is why it is generally accepted among scientist that genetics do play a role in sexual attractions. Homosexuality is an antagonistic sexual trait. That would not be uncommon within evolution.
@rooio3 that wasn't the question I asked. I asked what is the purpose of life? The only purpose in the natural world apart from God is to procreate, evolve and die. In other words, there is no purpose.
@xchampx-"In other words, there is no purpose."- and? Purpose is what you make of it. Organisms that strive to live create a purpose for themselves within life. It doesn't mean the generation of life itself has a purpose. Genetic diversity provide the protection needed for a species to survive. That's the reason of procreation. Some species can reproduce both sexually and asexually. Life does not need a purpose for something to exist, as you seem to think.
@xchampx-In natural science, the biolocial study of how life led from non- reproducing elements to reproducing organisms called abiogenesis show the purpose of procreation does not require a god. Even now, several scientists have succeeded in producing simple viruses from entirely non-living materials. The production of a living organism with no ancestors is well possible according to current biological knowledge. It is already beginning to happen in simple artificial productions.
@rooio3 Wait, so you are telling me they have created life from nothing? Take note: I don't mean life from AIR (nothing) i mean out of non-living material? This would be interesting. Can you link me the sources? However, I do not find this as a conflict to God because in Exodus you see the the Pharoah and his sorcerers replicate Gods plagues.
@xchampx-"I do not find this as a conflict to God because in Exodus you see the the Pharoah and his sorcerers replicate Gods plagues."- the exodus story is not real. Problem solved.
@rooio3 You're asking besides the Bible saying Homosexuality is a sin, why do Christians belive it is a sin? I'm not sure I know how to answer that. If you deny the auhority of the Bible, there is no reason to debate this issue in this format.
@stevenp25100 I think the point about sin against the son of man and the holy spirit remains. Because they are suppose to be equally God and yet you can sin against one and it can be forgiven but you can not sin against the other one even though they are both God and there's not two gods but one god.
@Nazam44 When a Christian says "blaspheme the Holy Spirit" what we are saying is to have once been saved (know God) and than whole heartedly reject him.Trinty is true but It could be "blaspheme God". That is the only unpardonable sin, I suppose because God already gave you the forgivness and you decided to reject it. This is above and beyond all other sins which are essential equal if one was to repent. The "problem" with homosexuality is people not belive it is sin,thus not asking forgiveness.
Your views are biblically sound :)...However, I personally don't think homosexuality is right or wrong. I think it's just a less common sexual orientation, because most people are heterosexual. Homosexuals don't have any more control over who their sexually attracted to, than I have control over the color of my eyes....with the exception of sexual abuse, people are born homosexual. Just because its less common doesn't make it wrong or unnatural.
Wow, I pretty much agree. No one sin makes a person anymore or less hell-bound than another. All have sinned, and all fall short, so no one is better off than any other person. I have a very similar opinion on this but have honestly been reluctant to bring it up in a video because I dunno how well that'd go over...
@5thWatcher What evidence would that be? Also, conversely, wouldn't that also mean that heterosexuality is a choice? Assuming you are heterosexual, tell me how and when did you make a conscious choice to be heterosexual?
@DeeDemonwitch I think you are confused, sir. Personally I never made a choice what-so-ever. I am what I am naturally. Does that seem hypocritical? It's because you read my original comment incorrectly.
هلا يسوع ولد الله عندكم صحيح اذا من زوجتى االله ؟
Nayf1968 3 weeks ago
Food for thought: Romans 1 suggests that "homosexuality" (the term is a self-contradiction, linguistically speaking) is - unlike other sins - not just a sin, but has a symptomatic character: in as far as it becomes more and more prevalent and open as society turns more and more away from God. Thus it is - in Romans 1 - shown as the consequence of idolatry. And it is evident: it's nto only widespread, but also supported and promoted in liberal societies.
Shlomayo 1 month ago
Why does god think, that homosexuality is wrong? Is there a reason?
MrOskarthebest 3 months ago
@MrOskarthebest
G-D is torn w/in through his own evolution. He evolved, im am embarrassed to say, from the resurrecting Flesh of ATUM, that created infinity by AUTO-Fellatio (not kidding: Spilling the MILKEY IVER OPF LIFE was sacred, THEN!) The MONO-Creator that evolved by the [ideology] of the ancestorZ of the Rabbinical "P"riestship is obsessed w/ PRO-Creation but not with "senseless pleasure".
Circumcision became, for reducing senseless pleasure
Gay-punishment became, SAME RESAON.
kleenex3000 3 months ago
@kleenex3000 I'm afraid I don't really get what you are writing, could you rewrite it for a not so good englishspeaker please?
MrOskarthebest 3 months ago
@MrOskarthebest LOL! Salut from Germany. So, niot my language either.The Abrahamic G-D EVOLVED.It was a consolidation process,that can be likened to the forced FUSION of companies:The bigger companies do not appreciate the other potential COMPETITORZ around them and they HEAD,to CONSUME them.SeXXuality,Divine Orgasm USED TO be sacred.Then it became consumed by the G-D of the ProCreation of the chosen people,that requires"NO OTHER G-D a-side me" and all sexuality w/out ProCreation became SIN.
kleenex3000 3 months ago
Sorry dude but you get my gaydare alert going and i'm sure that is not the first time you have heard that
rd1999 6 months ago
As a gay boy, my gaydar is like whoa, and with that hair and that shirt -- damnnnnnn. Totalllllly.
Debordsbullet 6 months ago
Even though their is nothing wrong with homosexuality, I will give you credit for not being amongst the theists who single out homosexuality, like it's some sort of obsession for them :)
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- "Changing the subject AGAIN?"- the subject is simply Justin's opinion on homosexuality....based on...the bible. Thus, addressing the issues of the bible is paramount I would think. "The Bible was said to be wrong only for scientist/archaeologists/historians to catch up later?"- No supernatural claims of the bible have been verified as fact by scientists, archeologist, or historians. In fact, no supernatural claims for any religion. They are merely...assertions.
rooio3 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- "Just stop you have no idea what your talking about" Afraid so. How in the world can you be a psychology major and not know this? Zoosexuals and pedosexuals are not classified as sexual orientations, and none deal with interaction with consenting adults. For the major obvious reason that they inflict harm & abuse, which is why they are classified as disorders. These people typically have the classified sexual orientations of regular adults. You should know that.
rooio3 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- Why is the theory of evolution accepted as fact? Because the theory is based on already observable EVIDENCE. It attempt to explain how the evidence got where it has, not whether or not it occurred. Archeology exposes the many false claims of the bible. What was discovered do not support what the bible depict. Simple. The bible is not accurate history, it's idealized...altered. We have the evidence of real history to counter it. Starting from the very first book of genesis.
rooio3 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- "You're doing exactly what you accuse Christians of doing, you have made up your mind despite all evidence to the contary"- which is....none. I've heard all the claims. That's nothing new, I study ancient religions. Christianity is no different in regard to evidence for a deity than the others. Their is evidence of BELIEF in these religions, yes. No evidence for a deity. "Differences is you claim to use science,Christian believe the Bible"- Science....provide EVIDENCE.
rooio3 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- and millions of nucleo and sequenced bases. That is the reason they aren't looking for "a" gene. Environment also does not cause gay men to respond to pheromones the same way heterosexual women do, that is biological. Nor does it cause the brain patterns in the mind that deal with arousal to light up concerning same sex. People don't choose to have heterosexual attractions. Rather that informs them of their sexual orientation.
rooio3 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- Environmental has long been explored for years and discounted in research studies. The only environments considered are hormonal prenatal uterine environment. There is more evidence the suggest it is biological in nature. Environment does not cause chromosome inactivation in mothers of gay children. We know chromosomes contain genetic instructions. No one says one gene causes orientation. Genes combine functions. we know each chromosome can contain up to over a thousand genes,
rooio3 6 months ago
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rooio3 6 months ago
@TheTeddybear75 Did you even watch my video? I don't think you did.
xchampx 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- Odd that you claim to be a psychology major when most psychologist classify homosexuality as a normal variation of human sexual orientation. In fact, they warn against attempting to change orientation due to the mental stress it causes. I'm sure would know the difference between behavior and attraction. Including the fact that psychologists are not biologists. They do not study genome sequencing, the area of genetics, cells, ecology, evolution, so on.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 Just stop you have no idea what your talking about and it is becoming rather obvious. "most psychologist probaly would say homosexuality is a normal variation for politcal reasons, using that logic there is no reason zoosexuals and pedosexuals are not. Science has no conclusive evidence to determine the reason for different "orientations". So your BELIEF that it is genetic is no better supported than mine that it is enviormental. In fact, there is much more evidence in my favor.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- Never said morality was a christian concept, rather christians have created their own view of "morality". Christians are not the only people on the planet who follow moral codes, which have nothing to do with religion. They infuse religion into it. Scientist use evidence. There is none with christianity. There is only evidence that people believed it in ancient times, just like any other religion. You should look more deeply into what scientific "reason" actually is.
rooio3 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- advancement. It's not going to work. That has everything to due with this subject, because christains seem to terrorize these people simply on that basis, and it's ridiculous. You can't use something that has so many holes in its conception as validation and think it will be taken seriously. Instead of wasting time on "sins", study the reality of biology, human behavior, the mind, things that are real and leave factual data.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 Pretty sure Christians have addressed the exsistence of God, once or twice. I'm a psychology major so studing human behavior and the mind is what I do, but what's funny is I can tell you don't. You seem to think Christians rely on assumptions and scientist don't; nothing could be farther from the truth. Alot of your fellow atheist would not agree morality is a christian concept, but I'm glad you see it that way. Bottomline, the scientific "reason" for homosexuality is "inconclusive".
stevenp25100 6 months ago
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rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 "Scientist use evidence.There is none with christianity." I really don't know where to go from here. You can pick and choose what you want to believe all you want but it is rather ignorant to pretend the facts are only on your side. It is also hypocritical to ignore evidence that opposes your side; You're doing exactly what you accuse Christians of doing, you have made up your mind despite all evidence to the contary. Differences is you claim to use science,Christian believe the Bible.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- Christians should first address the reality of the existence of an invisible being- (something common with all other religions), before placing anything as "sins". That's the point. Sinning is a perception created by religion based off claims invented by man of a god that has never been seen at all, simply recorded on paper. Giving scriptures validates nothing. Scriptures are not proof. You can't address homosexuality on claims of limited ancient belief systems in this age of
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 That is what it would look like if no God existed. However, A God (YHWY) does exist and as opposed to your rejection of his existence, he indeed did create the universe, sin occured and is a moral offense towards a perfect, holy and just God. He inspired men by his Holy Spirit to communicate through writing, as well as other events. It would make perfect sense because unlike today, they didn't have TV's or record players to record God on. Scripture validates it, if its Gods and it is.
xchampx 6 months ago 2
@xchampx-"However, A God (YHWY) does exist"- that is merely a baseless subjective statement, Justin. What you just said does not prove it to be factual. There is as much evidence for the existence of YHWY (based off the earlier Canaanite deities Israel just happened to emerged out of) as there is for Hercules, Zeus, and so on. NOTHING. Merely empty claims. So no... it ISN't God's doing. Just human doing from human perception. Ancient man has a history of doing this. Nothing new.
rooio3 6 months ago
@xchampx- The other major problem with scripture is that it has shown itself to be inaccurate in depicting historic events conflicting with actual discovered evidence. So we know the writers were deliberately changing things around to fit their particular views. Another problem is there were many separate views due to the fact that the scriptures were written in different time periods. We have the evidence of where their influences came from. It's not that much of a shock.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 Changing the subject AGAIN? Would you like to discuss all the times The Bible was said to be wrong only for scientis/archaeologists/historians to catch up later?
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@xchampx "G-D does exist"
It is already here that dishonesty starts. IF you were honest THEN you would be obligated to say: "i BELIEVE that [my] G-D does exist" going just one step further, you would have to even admit "and I do that, despite multiple CircumstanCial evidence from my scripture"
One CC ev. is that [your] G-D requires that GayZ be punished on Earth. Your Bible is clear on that. This is an ANTHROPOGENE concept that services the basic instinct hate on minorities such as GayZ.
kleenex3000 3 months ago
"Are there 2 different sets of chemicals that make somebody "love" because sadly, this is the atheist case." Uh, we have an estimated 200 trillion cells and each one performs millions of chemical reactions. Love is an emotion...a concept of the mind. Obviously without the mind, it would not be possible. The mind too is composed of numerous chemical reactions. Arousal is caused by chemical reactions within the body as well. It's not that hard to understand how these can be caused by chemicals.
rooio3 6 months ago
Gay people love others without having sex with them just like any heterosexual. It's a stupid argument. Homosexuality is an orientation...a natural attraction. It's not going to vanish no matter how hard people "wish" it away, which now in 2011 should be apparent. We have learned so much now in regard to the sex chromosomes and human sexuality, unknown in the past. Holding on to ancient thinking using modern knowledge will progress nowhere.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 That wasn't my argument, i was just in specific response to her statement, if gay love is wrong, God is wrong... umm no. I can't tell people what to do obviously, but there is no reason for people to lie to themselves and pretend the Bible says it's ok. If want to call it acient thinking, that's your right. Regarding science, nothing has shown homosexuality is genetic or natural. I'm not wishing anything away, I really don't care but dont manipulate scripture OR science.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- It would be wise to FIRST prove the existence of such an elusive deity before blissfully following illogical claims. There is no reason to believe the bible in the first place in regard to discovered evidence dismissing biblical claims, let alone advance technology that show what reality present to us. "Regarding science, nothing has shown homosexuality is genetic or natural."- then you haven't been paying attention for obvious reasons. Update please.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 I'm used to atheists changing the subject,and it's old. It would be wise to FIRST recognize the audience and purpose of the video before responding, as he said it was about Christians placing homosexuality above other sins. Sinning is the issue. All I was did was give someone the scripture they asked for. Christians belive the Bible is the authority on sin. If you want to debate the existence of God or accuracy of the Bible, I'm game, we can do so on videos about those topics.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100 'or natural' ~ please define what you mean by science has not proven it to be natural? After all it's certainly not proven it to be unnatural.
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@rooio3 "Gay people love others without having sex with them just like any heterosexual."This begs the question of "what is love?" and it seems that you are trying to make a clear distinction between Eros and Action.This must be asked: What is love? and What is the difference between love of heterosexual/homosexual love that you just mentioned and that between brotherly love or family love. Are there 2 different sets of chemicals that make somebody "love" because sadly, this is the atheist case.
xchampx 6 months ago 5
@Anjaani311 Well, I can't tell you what to believe .You asked me what Jesus said, I showed you, it's your choice. Jesus taught not to judge other peoples sin over yours(Mat 7:2 sawdust vs Plank) which I believe was one of XchampsX's points of this video and I agree. I never said love was wrong, but FYI, I love alot of people I wouldn't have sex with =) (Love ≠ sex) The danger is convincing yourself it's not a sin and thus not repenting like you would for other sins. Satan loves hidden sin.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@Anjaani311 Well,it makes no sense to say you believe only in words in red and not the rest of Bible nor to take the position that if Jesus did not specifically condemn it than it's not a sin esp when it's clearly discussed Bibically. However, in this case you're in luck, as Jesus said "Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh"
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100 Yeah, Jesus also advocates child abuse ~ Matthew 15:4-7, murder and death ~ Matthew 11:20, destroying families ~ Matthew 10:21 and husband to leave their wives to follow him.
So while you think it's OK to cherry pick something that doesn't even outright say homosexuality is wrong to support your argument, I'll cherry pick to show how cruel and unloving the Christian god and his son can be.
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@DeeDemonwitch @DeeDemonwitch the whole point of the video was not cherry picking a particular sin, I was answering the question someone asked me, they wanted a scriputre so I gave it to them. For someone who choose the name "DeeDemonwitch" you clearly are taking scripture out of context to meet your own personal agenda.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100 I know the video is not about cherry picking, but your response was cherry picked. Your quote does not condone homosexuality. Where as the the quotes I cherry picked involve the destruction of family. The family that you seem to think the Bible and Christianity upholds so very dearly.
You are the one taking scripture out of context to imply Jesus condones homosexuality, whereas (as far as I'm aware) he never did once in the NT. Try not to sociology project, it backfires.
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@DeeDemonwitch My response was not "cherry picked" it was in response to a question I was asked. How is Jesus saying "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?" Don't you think he would have added... Unless thou was created homosexual... ? Clearly Jesus it stating God's plan of a man and a woman. (this is ignoring the scriptures that specifically speak on homosexuality.) Clearly, you're intentionally twisting his words.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100 It's generality, it says nothing about homosexuality or people who remain single. My quotes are relevant in that clearly your god and Jesus don't care that much for family life.
Seeing there is no proof that your god exists or that Jesus actually said anything he's quoted as saying, you cannot impose it's values onto everyone.
You have still not answer my question: what do you mean by 'natural'?
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@DeeDemonwitch I was asked by someone who said they believed in Jesus's words, what Jesus said...according to the Bible. Authority of the Bible wasn't the question and is a separate "debate" if you want to call it that. The scriptures you posted have nothing to do with what you said they do, but is what you would expect from someone who voluntarily choose the s/n "Deedemonwitch" lets not pretend you're objective.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100 My name is just a silly name. Do you think I believe in demons and witches? That would be the Bible, not me.
You are using the Bible and Jesus to say homosexuality is wrong, yet what you quoted does not say that. You imply that Jesus and the Bible are all for hetero couples, yet some parts of the Bible involve destroying the family.
The OT condemn 'man lying with man', but then it condemns a lot of things that are irrelevant to today.
Again I ask, what do you mean by 'natural'?
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@Anjaani311 The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a perversion and a sin. If you don't accept the authority of the Bible that's your decision, but I really don't see how you feel the right to determine what is or what isn't a sin. In that case, couldn't I just decided there are no sins, if we are all allowed our own defintion of sinning?
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@xchampx-A quite rational approach, because then you KNOW what your dealing with from proof, and not guessing as blind faith require. Objective opinions can be justified by objective evidence. And reality is objective. An elusive god that people pretend to talk to as a real person is not objective reality. That's an imaginary friend. You can't have objective anything on something that present no logical evidence. Saying god is a moral law giver do not justify it as fact. Simply an statement.
rooio3 6 months ago
@xchampx-with the frontal lobes being most pronounced, because the executive functions (reasoning, abstract thought, self-control, planning) come from here. So it's not much of a leap to know why we are so different than other mammals concerning intelligence. End that chemical process and everything stops. "I don't understand why New Atheists are the ONLY ones.." it's quite simple. There isn't a "if god exists" opening. We don't go by presumptions, just verifiable evidence.
rooio3 6 months ago
@xchampx-"but obviously there is more than "just chemicals" that make you think about many different issues." The brain is composed of billions of cells. These cells pass signals to each other via as many as 1000 trillion (1015, 1 quadrillion) synaptic connections. It control functions of the entire human body. End that and you can't go on. Since our brains have evolved over other typical mammals, it would explain why we think about such issues. Our cereal cortex has the most spatial expansion
rooio3 6 months ago
@Nazam44 Regardless of severity, if you commit any one sin, you deserve hell. So I think he was trying to say in this video was that straight people and gay people are ALL sinners, so we can't look down on them just because they've committed a specific sin that we haven't.
KarisFaith316 6 months ago
I think our default attraction is the opposite sex; however, some people are heavily tempted to the same sex. But when people say that someone has no choice in the matter and they can't do anything about it - guess what, you can do all things through Christ! Homosexuality is just one of the many things Jesus died for on the cross, & with Him it can be overcome.
KarisFaith316 6 months ago
I agree for the most part but I think difference that kinda separates some sins from others is the organized movement to make the sin acceptable. I guess the biggest example is abortion and homosexuality. Like, I dont think there are groups that support spreading adultery or lying. I completely agree though, all have sinned and we need to be preaching the gospel. The millions spent on preventing gay marriage could certainly go to better causes.
stevenp25100 7 months ago
May I recommend the documentary called For the Bible Tells Me So. I thought, before I watched it, that it was going to be an anti-religious movie, but I was pleasantly surprised. It really opened my eyes to some of the verses in the bible that relate to homosexuality and the interpretations thereof.
TheLaughingOut 7 months ago
@TheLaughingOut Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into that.
xchampx 7 months ago
@xchampx It's quite the eye opener on Christianity and homosexuality. It made a lot of sense to me.
TheLaughingOut 7 months ago
I disagree that sins are equally the same. Some sins are more severe than others which is why in a court sentences are different. For example, stealing candy from a baby is not equal to killing some one. But thanks for the video!
Nazam44 7 months ago
@Nazam44 where is that in the Bible?
stevenp25100 7 months ago
@stevenp25100 For example Jesus says that if you sin against the son of Man it can be forgiven but if you sin against the Holy Spirit it will never be forgiven and so all sins are not equal or the same. We could also add sins against the law of Moses and we will see that not all sins deserve the same punishment. For example killing a slave does not have the same punishment for killing a fellow Israelite. The shows that the law of Moses did not regard all sins to be equally the same.
Nazam44 6 months ago
@Nazam44 The wages of sin is death.Romans 6:23 This occurs for any sin. Why? because God is perfect and Holy. The can be seen in Genesis. To us it's just a simple disobedience, but God cursed the earth and mankind in Genesis 2. Sin goes against him and by committing large or small acts of sin has the same value of breaking Gods commandments and laws. While, I will admit certain sins bring more damage to our life style (i.e.murder, stealing and adultery). James 2:10 also says the same.
xchampx 6 months ago
@Nazam44 I don't know if you're intentionally being misleading or not, but as we know blaspheming the holy spirit is the ONLY unpardonable sin. I guess that makes my point. Concerning the law of moses, again I know you're aware that as christians we are not under the law. Jesus was about our heart "anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment"..now what would that jugdment be? Sorry trying to elevate your sin above other people's sin is rather "pharisee-ish"
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- what specifically make it a sin? Because they don't generally procreate? A lot of gays, especially religious, have done so naturally simply through sexual behavior, not on the basis of their sexual attractions. Procreation isn't a requirement and not everyone want children. Is it viewed as unnatural? It wouldn't occur in nature among animals & insects. In fruit flies, homosexuality is biological according to research because they genetically altered genes to turn
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 "what specifically make it a sin?" Well, it would definitely having to be because God made it to be between a man and women. It is clear throughout the scriptures.
"Procreation isn't a requirement and not everyone want children." I find that interesting. Isn't that the whole point of life? To procreate? Otherwise there is no purpose to be here-even though that in and of itself is meaningless. We are just here waiting to die, like we all are destined to-a universe apart from God.
xchampx 6 months ago
@xchampx-"Well, it would definitely having to be because God made it to be between a man and women"- that doesn't show how it is morally corrupt. "Isn't that the whole point of life? To procreate?"- then everyone would want to have children, yet they don't. Many people don't have sex to procreate. And homosexuality hasn't stop procreation, rather research suggest it is tied to birth rates within a population. Paul'[s statement still prove nothing about naturalism.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 "that doesn't show how it is morally corrupt" Yes. Once, again you fail to understand objective morality, which fails on all sides in the atheists worldiview. You are simply a consequentialist. There is no right and wrong. Just consequences. Still there isn't right and wrong in consequentialism, just survival like you stated in the past conversations. The atheist is caught in a dilemma. either life is meant to procreate or it's not. You can't procreate through homosexual activity.
xchampx 6 months ago
@xchampx-"Once, again you fail to understand objective morality" or rather you do. You view objective morality only coming from a god. I see objective morality in the material existence of things that leave evidence. "You can't procreate through homosexual activity."- homosexual activity is behavior. There are a lot of sexual behaviors you can't procreate with. Attractions are not behavior.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 "or rather you do." I don't understand why New Atheists are the ONLY ones that don't see that if God exists and created all things (including objective moral values), that he isn't the reason for objective moral values. It is quote simple, if life has no value, meaning or purpose there is no value in morals and nobody can give an objective opinion, just subjective. God, being one who has no one above him and the creator of all things, is the only objective moral law giver.
xchampx 6 months ago
@stevenp25100- them bisexual, but could not turn the flies completely heterosexual as other heterosexual fruit flies. New testament says it's unnatural, yet at the same time, Paul appeal to biology to show long hair on men is unnatural compared with women. We know natural hair length is entirely genetic, varying from person to person. Can Jesus heal same sex attractions? That has been stated for years with many devoted gay christians who truly believed it, clearly not wanting the attractions.
rooio3 6 months ago
"Paul appeal to biology to show long hair on men is unnatural compared with women." Historical context is important to know why Paul said that. Samson can be a comparison.
"That has been stated for years with many devoted gay christians who truly believed it, clearly not wanting the attractions." Still, the same could be said for straight married men (or single). We fight not to lust after them, yet we clearly do not want to. Read Romans 7. Even Paul clarifies it by himself.
xchampx 6 months ago
@xchampx- "We fight not to lust after them, yet we clearly do not want to." Gay people don't merely "lust". They love as well. Like straight people love each other in a committed relationship. Straight lust is bound within their attraction to the opposite sex. Therefore the same could be said for gays. So that still does not say anything about an orientation being morally corrupt.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 "They love as well" Yes, and I love my brother and my Christian brothers and father. So, this begs the question: What is love? Is it an emotion? Is it an action? In the naturalistic worldview, its 'just chemicals in the brain'. This means its meaningless. However, Theists believe in the Spirit, which makes more sense than "chemical reactions" in the brain.
xchampx 6 months ago
@xchampx-"In the naturalistic worldview, its 'just chemicals in the brain'. This means its meaningless."- once again, it doesn't have to have meaning to exist. "However, Theists believe in the Spirit, which makes more sense than "chemical reactions" in the brain"- right, chemical reactions which we know are real bodily functions...
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 "right, chemical reactions which we know are real bodily functions..." I am not denying the chemical reactions have been shown to happen, but obviously there is more than "just chemicals" that make you think about many different issues. I believe everything you do, but I believe there is more to it than "just chemicals".
xchampx 6 months ago
@stevenp25100-Many find their attractions remain, while others realize they have bisexual attractions.Yet it may not reflect their sexual behavior.So beside the bible's mythic depiction of the sodomites, and the elusive new testament scriptures influenced by greek stocisim of nature and unnaturalism,(who's writing style Paul, being greek educated, seem to mimic which include homosexuality), why would christians equate this to moral decay-especially given the biological markers found so far?
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 If the purpose of life is not to procreate (in the naturalistic worldview without God), then what is it and why?
xchampx 6 months ago
@xchampx-"If the purpose of life is not to procreate (in the naturalistic worldview without God), then what is it and why?" Procreation is simply the promotion of genetic variation, which is not unusual to evolutionary biology. Evidence of this has been found in research thus far which is why it is generally accepted among scientist that genetics do play a role in sexual attractions. Homosexuality is an antagonistic sexual trait. That would not be uncommon within evolution.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 that wasn't the question I asked. I asked what is the purpose of life? The only purpose in the natural world apart from God is to procreate, evolve and die. In other words, there is no purpose.
xchampx 6 months ago
@xchampx-"In other words, there is no purpose."- and? Purpose is what you make of it. Organisms that strive to live create a purpose for themselves within life. It doesn't mean the generation of life itself has a purpose. Genetic diversity provide the protection needed for a species to survive. That's the reason of procreation. Some species can reproduce both sexually and asexually. Life does not need a purpose for something to exist, as you seem to think.
rooio3 6 months ago
@xchampx-In natural science, the biolocial study of how life led from non- reproducing elements to reproducing organisms called abiogenesis show the purpose of procreation does not require a god. Even now, several scientists have succeeded in producing simple viruses from entirely non-living materials. The production of a living organism with no ancestors is well possible according to current biological knowledge. It is already beginning to happen in simple artificial productions.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 Wait, so you are telling me they have created life from nothing? Take note: I don't mean life from AIR (nothing) i mean out of non-living material? This would be interesting. Can you link me the sources? However, I do not find this as a conflict to God because in Exodus you see the the Pharoah and his sorcerers replicate Gods plagues.
xchampx 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@xchampx-"I do not find this as a conflict to God because in Exodus you see the the Pharoah and his sorcerers replicate Gods plagues."- the exodus story is not real. Problem solved.
rooio3 6 months ago
@rooio3 You're asking besides the Bible saying Homosexuality is a sin, why do Christians belive it is a sin? I'm not sure I know how to answer that. If you deny the auhority of the Bible, there is no reason to debate this issue in this format.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
@stevenp25100 I think the point about sin against the son of man and the holy spirit remains. Because they are suppose to be equally God and yet you can sin against one and it can be forgiven but you can not sin against the other one even though they are both God and there's not two gods but one god.
Nazam44 6 months ago
@Nazam44 Listen to this. It's only 2 minutes long. /watch?v=6yWk0PtrhdQ
xchampx 6 months ago
@xchampx Thanks!
Nazam44 6 months ago
@Nazam44 When a Christian says "blaspheme the Holy Spirit" what we are saying is to have once been saved (know God) and than whole heartedly reject him.Trinty is true but It could be "blaspheme God". That is the only unpardonable sin, I suppose because God already gave you the forgivness and you decided to reject it. This is above and beyond all other sins which are essential equal if one was to repent. The "problem" with homosexuality is people not belive it is sin,thus not asking forgiveness.
stevenp25100 6 months ago
Just my opinion, I know you believe otherwise...I understand because I used to believe the same thing:)
SandySweet575 7 months ago
Your views are biblically sound :)...However, I personally don't think homosexuality is right or wrong. I think it's just a less common sexual orientation, because most people are heterosexual. Homosexuals don't have any more control over who their sexually attracted to, than I have control over the color of my eyes....with the exception of sexual abuse, people are born homosexual. Just because its less common doesn't make it wrong or unnatural.
SandySweet575 7 months ago
Wow, I pretty much agree. No one sin makes a person anymore or less hell-bound than another. All have sinned, and all fall short, so no one is better off than any other person. I have a very similar opinion on this but have honestly been reluctant to bring it up in a video because I dunno how well that'd go over...
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher I will amend that though with saying I think the evidence heavily points towards it not being a choice.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher What evidence would that be? Also, conversely, wouldn't that also mean that heterosexuality is a choice? Assuming you are heterosexual, tell me how and when did you make a conscious choice to be heterosexual?
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@DeeDemonwitch I think you are confused, sir. Personally I never made a choice what-so-ever. I am what I am naturally. Does that seem hypocritical? It's because you read my original comment incorrectly.
5thWatcher 6 months ago
@5thWatcher Having re-read you comment, I have indeed misread. It would appear I inadvertently failed to see the word 'not'. Silly me. My apologies.
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
@5thWatcher Right on! Stay classy brotha!
xchampx 7 months ago