why all these explanations !!??I've seen the premiere in the cinema,about 28 years ago!!!!Everyone understood the meaning and intent of this kiss !You must be very naive or stupid not to understand the meaning of this scene !! That is what the whole story based on !! MG !!
I remember watching this with my father, a WWII POW, and he thought it was an excellent movie, though he had no idea who the Bowie guy was, until I reminded him he was the guy who sang "Little Drummer Boy" with Bing Crosby. "Seems clean cut, not like those %$#*'s you are always listening to"
for those of u who dont know, the homoerotic, homosexual undertones was deliberately suggested throughout the movie by the movie director. all the more complex given its a war situation, and between captor and prisoner, and also given japan was such a traditional society.
I have written on this prior. But I recognize this scene may have homosexual undertones for those whom look for such things But I see.... Selflessness in the guise of rebellion. This rebellion is rooted in the sense of Self that causes us to lay our lives on the line when we see such an injustice that to become party to inaction would tear @ our Souls to the point of depression.Thats the way it is intended and so it is. I love you all.
@onebeautifulman1 With all due respect to u. If you have missed the gay layer of the story, you have missed a massive part of the film. The kiss is also an expression of defiance and of LOVE. Celliers is showing Yonoi that he returns these strong feelings, even though he knows it will doom him, he believes it is worth that moment of ectasy and happiness.
One of the great moments in 80s cinema. If you're only seeing potential homosexuality in this scene, or indeed the entire movie, then that's great, but you're only scratching the surface
This scene is ALSO about homosexual love.A great & forbidden love that can't be expressed,that gives much pain and rage to Yonoi.Bowie shows him that he understood,and kisses him as a demonstration of great humanity & love.But Yonoi is trapped into his role,his virile culture,and feels too much pain:he can't admit his feelings,so he get angry,and tries to break that "mirror" of love by the violence of his soldiers.If he can't let go & love Bowie,better destroying him.He can't love a man&stranger
@thecherryontop19 wot a load of poppycock. It is simply a kiss of forgiveness.. it wont make a difference where they go and wot they do from now, the kiss forgave him for the attrocities that were committed, nothing homosexual about it. It annoys me when people read into something that just isnt there. many cultures men kiss men on the cheek, this is nothing sexual just a greeting.
@cass3765: I'm afraid you are quite wrong. The book hints at a certain homoerotic fascination the two men have for each other and there is a scene where Celliers asks Lawrence why the Japanese ripped out all the pages of the books the POWs got that contained kissing. Lawrence tells him that the Japanese saw even the most chaste kiss in public as a perverse, sexual gesture. So please don't tell me Celliers, knowing this, thought Yonoi would see the kisses as a chaste gesture of forgiveness.
@Trampadoo It is not a gesture of forgiveness alright, but to say it is an act of sexual love wouldn't be accurate with the intent of Bushido, as sargeant Hara says to Lawrence earlier: a samurai, or someone carrying a samurai's "soul", Bushido, wouldn't fear homosexuality. To deny it when he would desire for it would be to live in shame, something a samurai would never permit. For Celliers to kiss Yonoi is much more an act of defiance as that of care.
@PendragonBra: Who says that Yonoi is not in denial about his homosexuality and does not live in fear because of it? He is stressed out about losing his honour completely all the time.. ;)
As for Celliers I never said it was homosexual LOVE. He learned what the kiss would mean to the Japanese, he had a hunch about Yonoi's feelings for him and used the kiss against him. IHe sort of uses this as a pretty clever psycholgical weapon against Yonoi.
@cass3765: And that is only the book. Oshima and Sakamoto both said that Yonoi was meant to be gay, Bowie talked about the homoerotic aspects of the movie, the whole gay theme is even stronger than in the book and the title song is 'Forbidden Colour', the title of a book by Mishima on whom Oshima losely based Yonoi's character on. The Japanse word for fc also means gay.
@cass3765 Do you really think that homosexuality is just sexual?...Us gays have very powerful, deep felt emotional and spiritual feelings too. Being gay is NOT just about sex! It is about who one falls in love with too! This is not a kiss of forgiveness but of defiance and more importantly an expression of love. Love which is sadly doomed.
@thecherryontop19 Tottaly wrong. As sargeant Hara makes explicit in the beggining of the movie, a samurai, or someone carrying a samurai's "soul", Bushido, wouldn't fear homosexuality. To deny it when he would desire for it would be to live in shame, something a samurai would never permit. For Celliers to kiss Yonoi is much more an act of defiance as that of care.
Thanks to the internet, I got to know this movie. It teaches a lot about the Japanese tough military discipline and the contrast between Western culture and Eastern values.
For the British soldier, certain facts are considered more freely and naturally. But censorship is greater within Jap. culture, as well as what is to be considered proper punishment. Even certain manifestations of admiration are censored/accepted.
All in all, a film which induces meditation on this humane matter.
What happened after the kiss? It looked like the Japanese guy tried to kill himself, then it looked like he tried to kill David; then I just couldn't tell... And why did he grab David and push him to the ground?
You guys are idiots. This scene has nothing to do with homosexuality. Even if there is a certain homoerotic subtext between Yanoi, and Celliars. It's more about human compassion. And also Celliars wanted to break Yanoi's Bushido Code. That's the biggest point of all.
Although David Bowie was Bi in his private life (and perhaps that's why he was chosen for the movie), the novel has nothing to do with homosexual attraction! They two feel admiration and respect towards each other as two really good friends would in real life, but they can't be friend because they are enemies at war! It's that simple!
One of the most moving movies that I have ever watched. This scene, with the kiss and that beautiful haunting music, is just amazing! One of those rare, jaw dropping moments in a movie, that you don't expect. BRILLIANT!
I admit I'm a bit homophobic, but this scene is really powerful. I'm lucky to have never seen the trailer or any clip before watching it or I would've quickly dismissed it as gay.
This kiss isn't about sexual tension. These two men doom themselves with this kiss, but in return, they set their souls free... This kiss is about letting go... Forgiving.
@Wiligot: Dude, have you seen the interview Oshima, Bowie and Sakamoto did about the movie back then? They all talked in detail about the homoerotic and homosexual aspected of the movie and Sakamoto said Yonoi was gay. It is more subtle in the novel but more than evident in the movie. Not to mention the reference to Mishima and his novel titled Forbidden Colours which is also a term for being gay in Japanese.
you have nıcely put ıt but i think that this film gives a lot of space to the viewer to make his own decision, you can understand it both ways, and i think that was the real point of the makers of this film. Although the novel has nothing to do with homosexuality.
@Wiligot: Again, watch the interview the makers of this film gave. They heavily put the focus on the homoerotic and homosexual tension, like it or not. The way that homoerotic attraction can destroy a very strict system is actually one of Oshima's favourite themes he later continued with Gohatto.
Plus, the book made it clear that the Japanese regarded a kiss in public as a perverse, sexual gesture. This is probably when Celliers gets the idea to use a kiss as a weapon that Yonoi can't resist.
@finalcut75 I thought it was more out of frustration or as the others on here are saying, to bring the attention on himself as a form of rebellion to deflect the attention from the other inmates to sort of save them from some beatings. I also think it was mainly Yonoi who had the slightly sexual infatuation with Celliers. Yonoi is a bit bi-curious and Celliers is probably straight.
I also like this movie..it's really heart touched...but I don't really get that Celliers has the feeling first or Yonoi has first or both at same time??
Celliers is aware of Yonoi's feelings for him, and takes advantage of them here to fuck with Yonoi's head and save Nichols at the cost of his own life.
Powerful scene, though I don't think Bowie has ever been able to get beyond his drama/mime classes. He'd be good on a theatre stage but in a movie he comes across as stiff. - brushing his sleeve, buttoning his pocket and straitening his hat would be perfect on stage but in a movie don't look natural.
in the movie - bowie is playing upto the japanese officers superstitions ( as the officer think he's a reincarnation of a demon & taking his "powers" away )
Yes, blond hair was synonymous with demons in Japan and still is to a certain extent. Naruto and InuYasha, the manga icons, are two examples of it, but more in connection with problem characters.
Bowie is a beautiful man but, oh, a terrible actor... I was completely at loss about his sentiments throughout the whole movie. Does he love Yonoi? Does he like him? Despise him? This kiss in particular looks like aggression to me, an outward sign of scorn or something like that, it does not feel tender at all...
It's a powerful scene indeed. He Celliers defies everything and sees what Yonoi actually desired and actually gives it to him. The reason Yonoi could not strike him down because he was at conflict with his inner self. He had a homoerotic fixation with Celliers and in the end respected and possibly loved him. The scene where he lops off a piece of Celliers hair supports this.
@Mojioftheeast Pretty good comment. One also needs to remember that both people are living with betrayal and guilt. Yanoi, with the 1936 uprising and Celliers with his brother. There are many dualities within the film - Lawrence being in the middle.
Serberious, you've made a valid point, but I'm afraid you based your conclusion on what is only being seen here. Not to excuse Yonoi of course- but prior to this scene he was actually heavily provoked by the British Captain Hicksley- that guy he's abt to execute- who taunted him with "What happened to yr plan to replace me with Celliers?" and "I'm told it's the Japanese way to lie,sir".
True, lol...and I did mention Yonoi's behavior cannot be excused. But since you've seen the entire film, as claimed, you should have a pretty good idea that in context, had Hicksley been smarter & kept his mouth shut, Yonoi wouldn't have remembered abt the armaments issue right there and then- that would have stalled for time. Besides, the jap soldiers then were not exactly known for their sense of humour, were they?
@Tantrumzero : Wholeheartedly agree with you, Tantrumzero. =)
A war movie that's hard to pigeonhole too...is it Asian vs Western values? Japanese atrocities in WWII? Racism? Homoerotic tension? Self-sacrifice of a Christlike (Celliers) figure? All of the above? Or none? That's what made it so rich...and a beautiful work of art. ;-)
Who is to know, Mr Lawrence visites one of his old captives, before his exicution. Before xmas eve, and as he leaves his cell he tells him: "Merry Christmas, mr. Lawrence"
The japanes code where never to surrender, never to be taken as a prisoners. But he had converted to westeren ideals. Only to find himself subjected to the death penalty.
It forms a circle.
A path of which many of my youthfull ideas formed.
Tantrumzero, its a cycle indeed...the scene you described,@ the end...contains my 2 favourite quotes: "there are times, when victory is very hard to take" and ' you're simply the victim of men who think they're right...but the truth, is that nobody's right". I head tears in my eyes when Lawrence said that...humbly, sincerely, without any trace of sarcasm or irony...something we can all learn from. :')
@Tantrumzero : True...and judging fr our comments we've got carried away a little lol.. Let's get bk to basics- 1) This scene is beautiful, 2) To mr it's very profound..and revealing, in a way. I thank Nagisa Oshima for making such a gem of a film that changes my life- quite literaly. ;-)
Very profound scene...Yanoi's conflict is so raw, his struggling AGAINST his attraction for Celliers so brutal, heartbreaking...and painful to watch. :'(
Like the other posters have stated- a very deep, beautiful movie. This scene is already seared into my mind...and heart.
Bowie saw an imminent injustice going to happen. He wouldn't live in peace from there if he just stayed watching his friend being slaughtered like a pig - Instead, he preferred to do what he believed to be his only alternative: by the means that he could reach, to oppose what was wrong - with his own life - whatever the price for it was. His option wasn't to live, but to die in honor of his deeper values. What a deep and beautiful scene, most movies are so superficial today.
to be honest it's hardly impossible to find it, except on amazon if i remember well, but it costs something like forty euro, which is quite expensive for a CD...
i was surprised reading some interpretations of this scene. Japanese man's weakness, brutal Japanese side of WW2, etc.
i guess it's deeper than that.
it is simply more like someone first touched the "foreignness" (i meant something unknown) which he had never seen, felt or known. and, there is a connection, beyond reason, between those two men.
there is an unexplainable aching feeling, which you cannot describe with words, there...
I never viewed the scene as being "sexual". It's a sign of outward intimacy and caring, and is a very taboo sign in the traditional Japanese culture where the flaunting of emotions is strictly deplored. It is very invasive. What Bowie did was challenge that, and you can't beat someone (if you have a conscience) after they showed you such a level of kindness. Bowie was showing his captor love, which I think was the key element. That's why i don't see it as sexual.
PhilWithCoffee, it was referred to as sexual in the book and the director and the actors interpreted it that way. Your idea makes sense too but I guess it is not what the van der Post and Oshima meant.
Yonoi definitely had feelings for Celliers, whether they were homosexual feelings or not, they still lead him to act upon his individual emotions which resulted in him being a bad Captain of a prisoner camp and therefore replaced.
Todos los seres humanos tenemos la capacidad de amar, pero existen ciertas circunstancias en la que nos enamoramos en un espacio y tiempo inapropiados. Ha pesar del sufrimiento que ocasiona, mas aún cuando el sentimiento es correspondido, tambien lo calificaría como un sentimiento elevado, sublime, de una belleza indescriptible, no soy masoquista, pero tendrían que experientarlo para saberlo. Es hasta más romántico que la historia convencional de Romeo y Julieta. Hermosa película.
No, sólo Capitan Yonoi estab enamorado de Bowie, los sentimientos de Bowie nadie los sabe, es un personaje muy ambiguo, solo se sabe de él que se siente culpable por no haber ayudado a su hermano menor, cuando muchos hombres de todas edades lo ultrajaban, pero lo que hizo en la escena final es muy heroico.
Bowie lo hace para evitar que un compatriota suyo fuera ejecutado, teniendo ventaja al conocer la debilidad que yonoi sentía por él, y de una manera u otra compensar el daño que le hizo a su hermano menor en el pasado, al permitir que un gran gruo de estudiantes lo ultrajara.
Imagine if a guy suddenly undress you and make a love to you in front of a crowd. Even though you fall in love with him, it would be unbearable for you. That's what Capt. Yonoi feels when Jack kisses him. Remember, the eastern norm in decades ago was whole lot more restrictive than nowadays. Do you know that Yonoi's soldier is ordered to commit suicide because of having a homosexual relationship?
Unfortunately, I don't have the vids. I just clicked the videos in Youtube. It took a lot of patience ( a lot!), but what I got was good enough. I can't download anything, kids are often around, hit any button on keyboard, and cancel anything in progress. Grrrr!
@ekosoelistiyo: I think you hit the nail on the head. That is exactely how it is portrait in the book and how the actors and director commented on the topic. Celleris knew exactely what the kiss meant and it was just was "bad" for Yonoi as if Celliers had made love to him in front of the whole crowd. And the fact that he didn't prevent it and couldn't even punish Celliers for it made it even worse. That way he kind of admitted it.
Very few movies got my biggest attention -- no, not such things as "Titanic", but movies that brings me questions, ones that make me think. The first movie was "Lawrence of Arabia" (and I was only 15 years old!) and now this, "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence". Piece by piece, I compile idea about this kissing scene -- the most interesting scene of this movie. Thanks for the insight, MsHyde1!
Hehe, I think we got a similar taste in movies. One of those first "think" movies that never left me alone for years was "Lawrence of Arabia" for me, too! I watched both Lawrences when I was maybe 11/12 and even after so many years I still discover new aspects about them. :) Thinking about it, I developed a little fascination for those hidden meanings at a very young age.
'The Seed & The Sower' by Ryuichi Sakamoto (Yanoi) and before you go searching it's sadly not on youtube, i recomend if you like the soundtrack to buy the 12 inch vinyl with all the soundtrack on.
Once again, memorable scene excellent film, it really shows you how much the world has changed since the second world war (Y)
It wasn't just a "make love, not war" statement. In fact, I don't think it ever planned to be. It's him standing up for that man that Yonoi was going to execute. It's an important scene because of Jack (David Bowie)'s past where he did not stand up for his little brother.
I agree with you. It is a redemption for not standing for his brother. Still, why kisses Yonoi? Why not, for example, just say, "Stop it! Take me to replace him!"
What is Jack actually trying to do? What is his real "statement"?
Well, some people think there's homosexual undertones, but I just don't see it that way.
I think the kissing has to do with the differences in culture--kissing like that can be a greeting in Britain, while Japanese people are not physical other than shaking hands.
Also, if you think about it, do you think this scene would have made as much of a difference as it does now if David Bowie had said "Take me!" instead of kissing Sakamoto? No, it wouldn't have made that much of an impact.
Yes, you're right: a kiss has many meanings, depends on the cultures. I still can't get ride of f the homosexuality interpretation. But, really, you're opinion gives my a new insight.
Yeah, I can see where people get the homosexual undertones, but I didn't hear about those until after I watched this movie. You know, it's the whole, "you don't notice until someone points it out to you." But even now, I don't think it's about that.
Well, the director, Sakamoto and Bowie all said Yonoi was meant to be gay and his character was based on gay author Mishima, who wrote a book called "Forbidden Colours". Which is also the title of the song from this movie. *cough*
I the book Celliers wonders why the Japanese tore out all the pages of the books the pows got to read that feature even harmless kisses so you are right in a way. Celliers knows that kissing Yonoi is a sexual thing and he uses it against him. And it works.
Great scene; this movie has held up well in the many years since I first saw it. He made another good one, "The Man who Fell to Earth".
Ca1861 2 weeks ago
why all these explanations !!??I've seen the premiere in the cinema,about 28 years ago!!!!Everyone understood the meaning and intent of this kiss !You must be very naive or stupid not to understand the meaning of this scene !! That is what the whole story based on !! MG !!
zenobowie 1 month ago
@zenobowie ps IS based on !
zenobowie 1 month ago
One of the best scenes in movie history.
Dandaphne80 1 month ago
Thought the Thin White Duke would have been tempted to use his tongue.
MAN80085 1 month ago
The moment his fantasies and desire was fulfilled, it was his beginning of doom...
spiritfired 1 month ago
@Fraxture Excellent. Preach on, brother.
whwhit1234 4 months ago
Best moment in the history of humanity
trollmaster02235 4 months ago
How could Bowie's character be walking freely on the field without being shot by the Japanese?
I don't think a POW could leave the formation in a situation like this...
FragMan69 4 months ago
@FragMan69 You miss the whole point of the movie. Go back and read Laurens van der Post's The Seed and the Sower to understand.
whwhit1234 4 months ago
@FragMan69
The soldiers are petrified of surprise to see how intrepid he leave the formation...
yamsala 2 months ago
I remember watching this with my father, a WWII POW, and he thought it was an excellent movie, though he had no idea who the Bowie guy was, until I reminded him he was the guy who sang "Little Drummer Boy" with Bing Crosby. "Seems clean cut, not like those %$#*'s you are always listening to"
emoryp 5 months ago
for those of u who dont know, the homoerotic, homosexual undertones was deliberately suggested throughout the movie by the movie director. all the more complex given its a war situation, and between captor and prisoner, and also given japan was such a traditional society.
sumosumo888 5 months ago 2
スタッフロール直前のハラ軍曹が笑うシーンと同じくらい泣いた
otkppm 6 months ago
Hey! Sakamoto is wearing eye shadow, i should know as i used to be a New Romantic.
TheGodParticle 6 months ago
I have written on this prior. But I recognize this scene may have homosexual undertones for those whom look for such things But I see.... Selflessness in the guise of rebellion. This rebellion is rooted in the sense of Self that causes us to lay our lives on the line when we see such an injustice that to become party to inaction would tear @ our Souls to the point of depression.Thats the way it is intended and so it is. I love you all.
onebeautifulman1 7 months ago
@onebeautifulman1 With all due respect to u. If you have missed the gay layer of the story, you have missed a massive part of the film. The kiss is also an expression of defiance and of LOVE. Celliers is showing Yonoi that he returns these strong feelings, even though he knows it will doom him, he believes it is worth that moment of ectasy and happiness.
HamuMcSqueaky 1 month ago
ryuichi sakamoto is incredibly gorgeous omg
thecocolover 7 months ago
BOWIE!
mypspisdead 7 months ago
One of the great moments in 80s cinema. If you're only seeing potential homosexuality in this scene, or indeed the entire movie, then that's great, but you're only scratching the surface
destructivedandy 8 months ago 4
私はそれが今までする必要があります美しい映画の一つですこの映画を愛して
MrBleachlover1994 10 months ago
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Sexy Ryuichi - the epitome of a handsome Japanese samurai. I'd kiss him too!
auntyena 10 months ago
Sexy Ryuichi - the epitome of a handsome Japanese samurai.
auntyena 10 months ago 7
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juberra 10 months ago
Pobre Ionoi, como seria bom beijar de volta e transar com esse lindo gato inglês. Mas aí não haveria contradições...nem cultura...nem filmes.
juberra 10 months ago
the way he glared at Yonoi! what an actor, what a scene. An impossible situation in the western world nowadays.
juberra 10 months ago 6
This scene is ALSO about homosexual love.A great & forbidden love that can't be expressed,that gives much pain and rage to Yonoi.Bowie shows him that he understood,and kisses him as a demonstration of great humanity & love.But Yonoi is trapped into his role,his virile culture,and feels too much pain:he can't admit his feelings,so he get angry,and tries to break that "mirror" of love by the violence of his soldiers.If he can't let go & love Bowie,better destroying him.He can't love a man&stranger
thecherryontop19 11 months ago 23
@thecherryontop19
Agree with you, but I also think that Celliers does it to fuck with his head and disarm him (in both senses of the word).
2210ethan 10 months ago 2
@thecherryontop19 wot a load of poppycock. It is simply a kiss of forgiveness.. it wont make a difference where they go and wot they do from now, the kiss forgave him for the attrocities that were committed, nothing homosexual about it. It annoys me when people read into something that just isnt there. many cultures men kiss men on the cheek, this is nothing sexual just a greeting.
cass3765 3 months ago
@cass3765 Some movies are indeed over analised. This is not one of them.
FelipeFECTM 2 months ago
@cass3765: I'm afraid you are quite wrong. The book hints at a certain homoerotic fascination the two men have for each other and there is a scene where Celliers asks Lawrence why the Japanese ripped out all the pages of the books the POWs got that contained kissing. Lawrence tells him that the Japanese saw even the most chaste kiss in public as a perverse, sexual gesture. So please don't tell me Celliers, knowing this, thought Yonoi would see the kisses as a chaste gesture of forgiveness.
Trampadoo 2 months ago 2
@Trampadoo It is not a gesture of forgiveness alright, but to say it is an act of sexual love wouldn't be accurate with the intent of Bushido, as sargeant Hara says to Lawrence earlier: a samurai, or someone carrying a samurai's "soul", Bushido, wouldn't fear homosexuality. To deny it when he would desire for it would be to live in shame, something a samurai would never permit. For Celliers to kiss Yonoi is much more an act of defiance as that of care.
PendragonBra 2 months ago
@PendragonBra: Who says that Yonoi is not in denial about his homosexuality and does not live in fear because of it? He is stressed out about losing his honour completely all the time.. ;)
As for Celliers I never said it was homosexual LOVE. He learned what the kiss would mean to the Japanese, he had a hunch about Yonoi's feelings for him and used the kiss against him. IHe sort of uses this as a pretty clever psycholgical weapon against Yonoi.
Trampadoo 2 months ago
@cass3765: And that is only the book. Oshima and Sakamoto both said that Yonoi was meant to be gay, Bowie talked about the homoerotic aspects of the movie, the whole gay theme is even stronger than in the book and the title song is 'Forbidden Colour', the title of a book by Mishima on whom Oshima losely based Yonoi's character on. The Japanse word for fc also means gay.
Trampadoo 2 months ago
@cass3765 Do you really think that homosexuality is just sexual?...Us gays have very powerful, deep felt emotional and spiritual feelings too. Being gay is NOT just about sex! It is about who one falls in love with too! This is not a kiss of forgiveness but of defiance and more importantly an expression of love. Love which is sadly doomed.
HamuMcSqueaky 1 month ago
@thecherryontop19 Tottaly wrong. As sargeant Hara makes explicit in the beggining of the movie, a samurai, or someone carrying a samurai's "soul", Bushido, wouldn't fear homosexuality. To deny it when he would desire for it would be to live in shame, something a samurai would never permit. For Celliers to kiss Yonoi is much more an act of defiance as that of care.
PendragonBra 2 months ago
@thecherryontop19 the japanese looked so shocked because he knew bowie had a hard on shooting this scene, the dirty fucker.
becalmned 1 month ago
Thanks to the internet, I got to know this movie. It teaches a lot about the Japanese tough military discipline and the contrast between Western culture and Eastern values.
For the British soldier, certain facts are considered more freely and naturally. But censorship is greater within Jap. culture, as well as what is to be considered proper punishment. Even certain manifestations of admiration are censored/accepted.
All in all, a film which induces meditation on this humane matter.
lisawang99 11 months ago 2
The most memorable moment from an awesome film. Thanks for posting!
Movie is available on DVD from amazon - enjoy!
Bloodhoofgal 11 months ago 3
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LadyBowie1119 11 months ago
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What happened after the kiss? It looked like the Japanese guy tried to kill himself, then it looked like he tried to kill David; then I just couldn't tell... And why did he grab David and push him to the ground?
LadyBowie1119 11 months ago
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LadyBowie1119 11 months ago
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LadyBowie1119 11 months ago
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LadyBowie1119 11 months ago
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LadyBowie1119 11 months ago
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LadyBowie1119 11 months ago
A kiss to death for an impossible peace...
No more words for it...
Great movie & OST. Thx
YuukoSadness 1 year ago
please whats name of that music ?
Petrasius 1 year ago
@Petrasius ‘‘The seed‘‘ from the soundtrack of this movie.
orangeheartneverdie 1 year ago
@orangeheartneverdie thank you
Petrasius 1 year ago
You guys are idiots. This scene has nothing to do with homosexuality. Even if there is a certain homoerotic subtext between Yanoi, and Celliars. It's more about human compassion. And also Celliars wanted to break Yanoi's Bushido Code. That's the biggest point of all.
thot4 1 year ago
Although David Bowie was Bi in his private life (and perhaps that's why he was chosen for the movie), the novel has nothing to do with homosexual attraction! They two feel admiration and respect towards each other as two really good friends would in real life, but they can't be friend because they are enemies at war! It's that simple!
Wiligot 1 year ago
Sakamoto is a fantastic actor...
Bass5el 1 year ago 2
One of the most moving movies that I have ever watched. This scene, with the kiss and that beautiful haunting music, is just amazing! One of those rare, jaw dropping moments in a movie, that you don't expect. BRILLIANT!
westlonman 1 year ago 10
Try muting the audio and this scene won't be the same anymore.
HeartLocker 1 year ago
Fact: The Japanese have no word in their language for the word 'kiss'. They have borrowed the English word and adapted it to 'kisu'
alan100759 1 year ago 2
@alan100759 It's a little wrong.
The English word " kiss " is " kuchizuke " or " seppun " in the japanese written language, and these words are used in novel or poetry.
We japanese use the word " kisu " in daily conversation.
oneofthejapanese 1 year ago
I admit I'm a bit homophobic, but this scene is really powerful. I'm lucky to have never seen the trailer or any clip before watching it or I would've quickly dismissed it as gay.
kistajk 1 year ago
Superbowie to the rescue! Ahh, they were in love with each other.
tomeeeee1 1 year ago
This kiss isn't about sexual tension. These two men doom themselves with this kiss, but in return, they set their souls free... This kiss is about letting go... Forgiving.
finalcut75 1 year ago 72
@finalcut75
Tell that to the raving homo fanatics who would like to see homo-eroticism everywhere!
Wiligot 1 year ago
@Wiligot: Dude, have you seen the interview Oshima, Bowie and Sakamoto did about the movie back then? They all talked in detail about the homoerotic and homosexual aspected of the movie and Sakamoto said Yonoi was gay. It is more subtle in the novel but more than evident in the movie. Not to mention the reference to Mishima and his novel titled Forbidden Colours which is also a term for being gay in Japanese.
Trampadoo 10 months ago 4
@finalcut75
you have nıcely put ıt but i think that this film gives a lot of space to the viewer to make his own decision, you can understand it both ways, and i think that was the real point of the makers of this film. Although the novel has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Wiligot 10 months ago
@Wiligot: Again, watch the interview the makers of this film gave. They heavily put the focus on the homoerotic and homosexual tension, like it or not. The way that homoerotic attraction can destroy a very strict system is actually one of Oshima's favourite themes he later continued with Gohatto.
Plus, the book made it clear that the Japanese regarded a kiss in public as a perverse, sexual gesture. This is probably when Celliers gets the idea to use a kiss as a weapon that Yonoi can't resist.
Trampadoo 7 months ago
@Trampadoo ok, ok. :-)
Wiligot 7 months ago
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Monique13666 5 months ago
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Monique13666 5 months ago
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@finalcut75 I thought it was more out of frustration or as the others on here are saying, to bring the attention on himself as a form of rebellion to deflect the attention from the other inmates to sort of save them from some beatings. I also think it was mainly Yonoi who had the slightly sexual infatuation with Celliers. Yonoi is a bit bi-curious and Celliers is probably straight.
Monique13666 5 months ago
@finalcut75 A powerful scene, I love your comment here...thank you.
bloffproductions 1 month ago
Yes, the music helped a lot... but, capturing an exact moment like this on film is very rare.
I saw it at the theater when it first came out... just to see if Bowie was a real actor.
Well, between "The Man Who Fell To Earth" and this... I believe he can.
wdchefdave56 1 year ago 5
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This movie is a masterpiece
targetmann100 1 year ago
bowie x sakamoto is my otp
beautifool81 1 year ago 2
this movie is very boring, but this scene is wonderful
derriev1967 1 year ago
mr. Lawrence 天才的な演技
kxfkn1 1 year ago
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CorvaTherion666 1 year ago
I love this sene..the music...this is what music can do in movies....
I always founded that captain Yonoi (Ryuichi Sakamoto) is sooooo gourges!!
mientjeo4 1 year ago 6
loved this movie the first time I saw it years ago- I need to see it again-
ellogoods 1 year ago
Good movie!!
IsisSlovenska 1 year ago
With the kiss,the Captain Yonoi returns to the reality….and thinks that Celliers always seemed to him,a little "gay",but not of this caliber....!
edestci 1 year ago
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edestci 1 year ago
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edestci 1 year ago
I also like this movie..it's really heart touched...but I don't really get that Celliers has the feeling first or Yonoi has first or both at same time??
atmai89 1 year ago
@atmai89
Celliers is aware of Yonoi's feelings for him, and takes advantage of them here to fuck with Yonoi's head and save Nichols at the cost of his own life.
Or at least that's how I read it.
2210ethan 1 year ago
japs r fcken queers... sakamoto makes good music though so its all good
pn778 1 year ago
without doubt the most unusual love theme I've ever heard for a character!
Jacobus180670 1 year ago
Powerful scene, though I don't think Bowie has ever been able to get beyond his drama/mime classes. He'd be good on a theatre stage but in a movie he comes across as stiff. - brushing his sleeve, buttoning his pocket and straitening his hat would be perfect on stage but in a movie don't look natural.
ReggieMental 1 year ago
in the movie - bowie is playing upto the japanese officers superstitions ( as the officer think he's a reincarnation of a demon & taking his "powers" away )
messia009 1 year ago
@messia009
Yes, blond hair was synonymous with demons in Japan and still is to a certain extent. Naruto and InuYasha, the manga icons, are two examples of it, but more in connection with problem characters.
Jacobus180670 1 year ago
@Jacobus180670 ..and Bleach XD
StacieWacieee 1 year ago
Bowie is a beautiful man but, oh, a terrible actor... I was completely at loss about his sentiments throughout the whole movie. Does he love Yonoi? Does he like him? Despise him? This kiss in particular looks like aggression to me, an outward sign of scorn or something like that, it does not feel tender at all...
Xsathrie 1 year ago
@Xsathrie You have no critical analysis skill what-so-ever do you? Please re-read what you have written.
parksy010101 1 year ago
@parksy010101 Um... Yeah... I read it. And? What is your critical analysis of ME? :) I didn't get it. Must be really stupid. ;)
Xsathrie 1 year ago
what is this actual tune?
shiodax 1 year ago
It's a powerful scene indeed. He Celliers defies everything and sees what Yonoi actually desired and actually gives it to him. The reason Yonoi could not strike him down because he was at conflict with his inner self. He had a homoerotic fixation with Celliers and in the end respected and possibly loved him. The scene where he lops off a piece of Celliers hair supports this.
Mojioftheeast 1 year ago
@Mojioftheeast Pretty good comment. One also needs to remember that both people are living with betrayal and guilt. Yanoi, with the 1936 uprising and Celliers with his brother. There are many dualities within the film - Lawrence being in the middle.
parksy010101 1 year ago
i don't know why but this scene makes me laugh maybe it was just the way the movie as film and the acting.
PutrescentSoul 1 year ago
Ryuichi, the best.
amaterasu5654 1 year ago
rゆ
thomyorkejapan 1 year ago 2
Ryuichi Sakamoto is such a beautiful man!!
scotsburd63 1 year ago 16
@scotsburd63 Yeah he was pretty sexy when this movie was made
Monique13666 5 months ago
thats how to defeat a bully.dont let them intimidate you,look then in the eye and get straight back up when they put you down!!!!!
mrsgritoli1 1 year ago
I think, that at the moment of utmost, inhuman barbarity, bowie makes the most human of gestures. This part of the film always gets me.
serberious 1 year ago
Serberious, you've made a valid point, but I'm afraid you based your conclusion on what is only being seen here. Not to excuse Yonoi of course- but prior to this scene he was actually heavily provoked by the British Captain Hicksley- that guy he's abt to execute- who taunted him with "What happened to yr plan to replace me with Celliers?" and "I'm told it's the Japanese way to lie,sir".
strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
I have seen the whole film and really, to behead someone for taunting you, is, to say the least, a little bit overkill, no pun intended, lol.
serberious 1 year ago
True, lol...and I did mention Yonoi's behavior cannot be excused. But since you've seen the entire film, as claimed, you should have a pretty good idea that in context, had Hicksley been smarter & kept his mouth shut, Yonoi wouldn't have remembered abt the armaments issue right there and then- that would have stalled for time. Besides, the jap soldiers then were not exactly known for their sense of humour, were they?
strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
Eastern vs western ideals, and theres a human underneath. Maby this is best movie scene ever.
Tantrumzero 1 year ago 4
@Tantrumzero : Wholeheartedly agree with you, Tantrumzero. =)
A war movie that's hard to pigeonhole too...is it Asian vs Western values? Japanese atrocities in WWII? Racism? Homoerotic tension? Self-sacrifice of a Christlike (Celliers) figure? All of the above? Or none? That's what made it so rich...and a beautiful work of art. ;-)
strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
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strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
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strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
Comment by "strawberrypanic81"
Who is to know, Mr Lawrence visites one of his old captives, before his exicution. Before xmas eve, and as he leaves his cell he tells him: "Merry Christmas, mr. Lawrence"
The japanes code where never to surrender, never to be taken as a prisoners. But he had converted to westeren ideals. Only to find himself subjected to the death penalty.
It forms a circle.
A path of which many of my youthfull ideas formed.
Tantrumzero 1 year ago
Tantrumzero, its a cycle indeed...the scene you described,@ the end...contains my 2 favourite quotes: "there are times, when victory is very hard to take" and ' you're simply the victim of men who think they're right...but the truth, is that nobody's right". I head tears in my eyes when Lawrence said that...humbly, sincerely, without any trace of sarcasm or irony...something we can all learn from. :')
strawberrypanic81 1 year ago 3
There is nothing you can do for the one who needs help.
Tantrumzero 1 year ago
@Tantrumzero : True...and judging fr our comments we've got carried away a little lol.. Let's get bk to basics- 1) This scene is beautiful, 2) To mr it's very profound..and revealing, in a way. I thank Nagisa Oshima for making such a gem of a film that changes my life- quite literaly. ;-)
strawberrypanic81 1 year ago
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Tantrumzero 1 year ago
@whatblah43 I will definitely have to check out the soundtrack.
linxZuraith 2 years ago
@whatblah43 Did Ryuichi Sakamoto Compose the whole soundtrack?
linxZuraith 2 years ago
i saw this movie when it first came out, and the 'kiss' was the scene that stayed with me forever!
leoheart06 2 years ago
このシーンを見たときは鳥肌が立った
セリアスかっこよすぎでしょう
lipton547 2 years ago 2
「やめなさい！」（たけし？）
Merry christmas, mr.Bowie.
marisolex119 2 years ago 2
トム･コンティでしょう。
naoyaliberty 2 years ago
tom comteって、それチーズですか？
冗談です。教えてくれてありがとう。
marisolex119 2 years ago
Che meraviglia...
AGValenti 2 years ago
brilliant.
thefugitive1965 2 years ago
at the same time i understand, i do not understand
TidusAbes 2 years ago 2
Very profound scene...Yanoi's conflict is so raw, his struggling AGAINST his attraction for Celliers so brutal, heartbreaking...and painful to watch. :'(
Like the other posters have stated- a very deep, beautiful movie. This scene is already seared into my mind...and heart.
strawberrypanic81 2 years ago 5
ich will auch einen ....kuss
salvatorearcilesi 2 years ago
I want a kiss too :(
PanthereMauV 2 years ago 27
@PanthereMauV Me too !!! eheheheh !!! Hey,David is good looking,isn't he?
soledestate 1 year ago
@PanthereMauV me too...
CorvaTherion666 1 year ago
both
CorvaTherion666 1 year ago
Amazing scene and sound track
t8mer 2 years ago 4
Does anyone know the name of the track being played in this scene? Each time I watch this film, it gets stuck in my head for weeks.
CaptainDiscount 2 years ago
@CaptainDiscount it's called "Sowing the seed" also found on the OST
mabdewn 2 years ago
one of the most powerfull scenes i have ever seen in a movie
mrsgritoli1 2 years ago
Bowie saw an imminent injustice going to happen. He wouldn't live in peace from there if he just stayed watching his friend being slaughtered like a pig - Instead, he preferred to do what he believed to be his only alternative: by the means that he could reach, to oppose what was wrong - with his own life - whatever the price for it was. His option wasn't to live, but to die in honor of his deeper values. What a deep and beautiful scene, most movies are so superficial today.
Isaneguxa 2 years ago 8
This is also Satyagraha
RepublicOfVietnam 2 years ago
This movie has very good music
Wish i could find the soundtrack
katten838 2 years ago
to be honest it's hardly impossible to find it, except on amazon if i remember well, but it costs something like forty euro, which is quite expensive for a CD...
carmou 2 years ago
first saw rhis when i was 9 years, it have always been in my mind. just as you say it. so must power emo. beautiful
huijbens01 2 years ago 2
This to me is the definition of Heroism
RepublicOfVietnam 2 years ago 5
i was surprised reading some interpretations of this scene. Japanese man's weakness, brutal Japanese side of WW2, etc.
i guess it's deeper than that.
it is simply more like someone first touched the "foreignness" (i meant something unknown) which he had never seen, felt or known. and, there is a connection, beyond reason, between those two men.
there is an unexplainable aching feeling, which you cannot describe with words, there...
qtotter 2 years ago 6
Bowie was not afraid of the Japanese man, he was not moved by what they did. It was the Japanese man's weakness.
lon9i9 2 years ago
Shows the brutal Japanese side of WW2.Bowies character was trying to humanise him
mrsgritoli1 2 years ago
The music is so awesome can I find a whole track??
Misty9190 2 years ago 2
I never viewed the scene as being "sexual". It's a sign of outward intimacy and caring, and is a very taboo sign in the traditional Japanese culture where the flaunting of emotions is strictly deplored. It is very invasive. What Bowie did was challenge that, and you can't beat someone (if you have a conscience) after they showed you such a level of kindness. Bowie was showing his captor love, which I think was the key element. That's why i don't see it as sexual.
PhilWithCoffee 2 years ago 2
PhilWithCoffee, it was referred to as sexual in the book and the director and the actors interpreted it that way. Your idea makes sense too but I guess it is not what the van der Post and Oshima meant.
MsHyde1 2 years ago 3
I didn't know there was a book, I'll definitely have to read it. Thanks for the information!
PhilWithCoffee 2 years ago
Yonoi definitely had feelings for Celliers, whether they were homosexual feelings or not, they still lead him to act upon his individual emotions which resulted in him being a bad Captain of a prisoner camp and therefore replaced.
thejoebobaggins 2 years ago 2
Celliers knew about this sexual tension between them and used it against him.
However as many people have said, it could also be a sign of love being more powerful than violence.
thejoebobaggins 2 years ago 2
Oh, isn't he brave?
westpenninewoman 2 years ago
sakamoto is an actor in this movie?!!!!???
InnerArts1 2 years ago 5
InnerArts1, dont you know? you can find this info in google! i typed "ryuchi sakamoto" in the search box
Animemindchamp 2 years ago
yes!!! I love Sakamoto!
galiriel 2 years ago
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HERMANOSCOOK 2 years ago
Todos los seres humanos tenemos la capacidad de amar, pero existen ciertas circunstancias en la que nos enamoramos en un espacio y tiempo inapropiados. Ha pesar del sufrimiento que ocasiona, mas aún cuando el sentimiento es correspondido, tambien lo calificaría como un sentimiento elevado, sublime, de una belleza indescriptible, no soy masoquista, pero tendrían que experientarlo para saberlo. Es hasta más romántico que la historia convencional de Romeo y Julieta. Hermosa película.
HERMANOSCOOK 2 years ago
¿Estaba enamorado del Comandante? Y el comandante japones... ¿Creo que también estaba enamorado de Bowie??
MikelArronte 2 years ago
No, sólo Capitan Yonoi estab enamorado de Bowie, los sentimientos de Bowie nadie los sabe, es un personaje muy ambiguo, solo se sabe de él que se siente culpable por no haber ayudado a su hermano menor, cuando muchos hombres de todas edades lo ultrajaban, pero lo que hizo en la escena final es muy heroico.
HERMANOSCOOK 2 years ago
Bowie lo hace para evitar que un compatriota suyo fuera ejecutado, teniendo ventaja al conocer la debilidad que yonoi sentía por él, y de una manera u otra compensar el daño que le hizo a su hermano menor en el pasado, al permitir que un gran gruo de estudiantes lo ultrajara.
HERMANOSCOOK 2 years ago
So beautiful, so strong. a real man.
tomeeeee1 2 years ago 4
I saw this movie once - nearly twenty years ago - and I never forgot this extraordinary scene!!!
KleinesSeepferdchen 2 years ago
Well, this scene made me download the movie and i know why u said this
Misty9190 2 years ago
what happens? why does he fall like he has a heart attack? someone tell me...
Misty9190 2 years ago
Imagine if a guy suddenly undress you and make a love to you in front of a crowd. Even though you fall in love with him, it would be unbearable for you. That's what Capt. Yonoi feels when Jack kisses him. Remember, the eastern norm in decades ago was whole lot more restrictive than nowadays. Do you know that Yonoi's soldier is ordered to commit suicide because of having a homosexual relationship?
ekosoelistiyo 2 years ago 3
Yea I downloaded the movie immediately... I think mayb that could also be because of Yonoi's extreme ego...
Misty9190 2 years ago
Unfortunately, I don't have the vids. I just clicked the videos in Youtube. It took a lot of patience ( a lot!), but what I got was good enough. I can't download anything, kids are often around, hit any button on keyboard, and cancel anything in progress. Grrrr!
ekosoelistiyo 2 years ago
@ekosoelistiyo: I think you hit the nail on the head. That is exactely how it is portrait in the book and how the actors and director commented on the topic. Celleris knew exactely what the kiss meant and it was just was "bad" for Yonoi as if Celliers had made love to him in front of the whole crowd. And the fact that he didn't prevent it and couldn't even punish Celliers for it made it even worse. That way he kind of admitted it.
MsHyde1 2 years ago 2
Very few movies got my biggest attention -- no, not such things as "Titanic", but movies that brings me questions, ones that make me think. The first movie was "Lawrence of Arabia" (and I was only 15 years old!) and now this, "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence". Piece by piece, I compile idea about this kissing scene -- the most interesting scene of this movie. Thanks for the insight, MsHyde1!
ekosoelistiyo 2 years ago
Hehe, I think we got a similar taste in movies. One of those first "think" movies that never left me alone for years was "Lawrence of Arabia" for me, too! I watched both Lawrences when I was maybe 11/12 and even after so many years I still discover new aspects about them. :) Thinking about it, I developed a little fascination for those hidden meanings at a very young age.
MsHyde1 2 years ago 2
unless its already been said the song was called
'The Seed & The Sower' by Ryuichi Sakamoto (Yanoi) and before you go searching it's sadly not on youtube, i recomend if you like the soundtrack to buy the 12 inch vinyl with all the soundtrack on.
Once again, memorable scene excellent film, it really shows you how much the world has changed since the second world war (Y)
lastenglishroses 2 years ago
...NOW IT IS , BUDDY....
Turnfather 2 years ago
It wasn't just a "make love, not war" statement. In fact, I don't think it ever planned to be. It's him standing up for that man that Yonoi was going to execute. It's an important scene because of Jack (David Bowie)'s past where he did not stand up for his little brother.
RabidNozomi 2 years ago
I agree with you. It is a redemption for not standing for his brother. Still, why kisses Yonoi? Why not, for example, just say, "Stop it! Take me to replace him!"
What is Jack actually trying to do? What is his real "statement"?
I keep thinking about this kissing scene......
ekosoelistiyo 2 years ago
Well, some people think there's homosexual undertones, but I just don't see it that way.
I think the kissing has to do with the differences in culture--kissing like that can be a greeting in Britain, while Japanese people are not physical other than shaking hands.
Also, if you think about it, do you think this scene would have made as much of a difference as it does now if David Bowie had said "Take me!" instead of kissing Sakamoto? No, it wouldn't have made that much of an impact.
RabidNozomi 2 years ago
Yes, you're right: a kiss has many meanings, depends on the cultures. I still can't get ride of f the homosexuality interpretation. But, really, you're opinion gives my a new insight.
ekosoelistiyo 2 years ago
Thank you! Glad I helped. xD
Yeah, I can see where people get the homosexual undertones, but I didn't hear about those until after I watched this movie. You know, it's the whole, "you don't notice until someone points it out to you." But even now, I don't think it's about that.
RabidNozomi 2 years ago
Well, the director, Sakamoto and Bowie all said Yonoi was meant to be gay and his character was based on gay author Mishima, who wrote a book called "Forbidden Colours". Which is also the title of the song from this movie. *cough*
I the book Celliers wonders why the Japanese tore out all the pages of the books the pows got to read that feature even harmless kisses so you are right in a way. Celliers knows that kissing Yonoi is a sexual thing and he uses it against him. And it works.
MsHyde1 2 years ago 4