CCW 2.141: Wolverine #73 Review

[smallmaniac]

Old Man Logan is a good book. It's an alternate reality story which is a nice change. The thing that makes Logan a pacifist and kills Wolverine is kind of heartbreaking though.

[agmaster]

So I'm going to check out PA now because of you, I read Wolverine 73, enjoyed it, but never thought about it that deeply. If in two panels, a writer can make years of overexposure make sense, shit I may have to take another look at reading Wolverine again. Or not...

Oh, and I won't buy Wolverine on DVD. I may see it again, but in no way will Fox gain profit from me. *too lazy to comment per video*

[BENWONDER]

Wolverine 73 coming out before 72 is literally blowing customer minds at my shop. I can read their faces. They don't believe me.

[Nkerklaan]

Maybe someone's head will literally explode and then Mark Millar and/or Steve McNiven will be charged with murder.

[comicculturewarrior]

One could only hope.

J.

[Nkerklaan]

Regarding the actual issue in question, I just may have to pick this up, but I dunno. I don't have much experience with Jason Aaron and from the experience I do have I'm not quite sure how to feel about him - I thought the one issue of Scalped I read was so much "ooooh look how gritty this is" garbage, but Joker's Asylum: Penguin is the best single issue I've read in recent memory. Maybe I'll let the deciding factor be this book and/or Ghost Rider.

[comicculturewarrior]

Scalped and Ghost Rider are easily two of my favorite books right now. I'll be the first to call out a book for being "full of itself" (i.e. Kick-Ass) but in my opinion I don't believe Scalped is one of those books. And Ghost Rider is just too much fucking fun. Of course that's why Marvel is canceling it in a couple of months. Sigh...

J.

[Nkerklaan]

I dunno, the first issue just seemed like it was dark and gritty for the sake of dark and gritty, and I didn't really like the art, either. It was done well enough, although I found the dialogue to be a bit funky in spots and the characterization to be a bit blunt... I'd be willing to give the first whole trade a shot, but I don't feel too motivated to pick it up right now.

[comicculturewarrior]

Come on man. You were giving me grief for "being part of the problem" by reviewing mostly superhero books and now that I'm talking up an alternative fiction book I'm still gettin grief. I just can't win. :(

J.

[comicculturewarrior]

I was just joking. I did not take it personally at all. It was a comment that made for good conversation and it made me rethink what we should review. I think we should review more indie stuff but the problem is we review stuff that E and I both read (for the most part). I give indie stuff to E all the time to read so we can review and he just "never gets around to it."

He had my copy of The Nightly News for like 3 months and didn't read a page of it. He's really part of the problem. :)

J.

[Nkerklaan]

I thought you might be joking but it's hard to tell on the internet sometimes. My bad.

I guess it'd be hard to review stuff you haven't both read. Maybe it's time to ditch that layabout Elliot for real!

Although really I shouldn't talk. I have the world's largest stack of borrowed and unread comics right now. And now someone just gave me Life of Pi to read so there goes a good chunk of my time. Did you know that fucking thing doesn't even have pictures?

[locusmortis]

I think Nkerklaan has a point in that Vertigo does have a "house style", I notice it in the colouring and lettering especially.

I started picking up the Fables crossover as I'd been hearing a lot of good things about it (and it is good but maybe not great) but reading all 3 comics (Fables, Jack and Literals) I could have sworn it could have been a vertigo book from 1994 or something. The inking, colouring and lettering seem so similar to how they were 15 years ago.

[pobra17]

pick it up. Scalped is fucking awesome, it would help to read it from the start.

[pobra17]

oh crap, just noticed you said you did read the first issue. And you didn't like it?? oh well, to each his own

[LEGOcinema15]

As much as Millar is disappointing me recently I still will buy Ultimate Avengers when it comes out.

[pobra17]

we've come to expect from wolverine. It's just a shame that marvel is not going to continue this trend of well written good wolvy stories, but instead are going to give us several months of fucking baby wolverine, in the main wolverine title no less. I mean honestly, is there anyone out there who actually gives a fuck about this complete loser of a character? It's bad enough that he is now on the dark avengers, the dark x-men, now he's taking over the wolverine title, fucking bullocks to that.

[pobra17]

this was a fantastic issue. I love how Aaron explains Wolverine's over-exposure as some kind of suicide attempt, that is one of the best character moments I have read in a wolverine story for a looong time. Because when you think about how long this guy has been alive and how much shit he's been through, wouldn't you eventually just want to die like everyone else? Fantastic. Way's story was great too, full of nice character moments and no cheesy team-ups or all out action bullshit ..... (cont.)

[DVGamer7]

yeah true i think the Deadpool comics are quite well done but because im a Fan of the Spider-Man character i find it to be too much of a WeaponX/Spider-Man Amalgamation. -For starters the costurme itself. -I have a really crazy idea but i think Deadpool should have (ala Ghost in the SHell) Thermo-OpticChamoflague Outfit. SpiderMan is his stage outfit...Deadpool should have one that is designed for effectiveness.

[johnnyhorror92182]

Yeah, Jose, the whole deal with OML is bullshit. I've said this before, it should have been a Hardcover Graphic Novel, and not a long, pointless, out-of-continuity storyarc.

Wolverine #73 was a greeeeaaaat issue. I can't stress that enough.

Did anyone notice that in the panel where Logan & the Avengers are fightn' the Serpent Squad (or is it society?) that Kubert made a boo-boo? Spider-Woman is shooting webs in the background. She doesn't shoot webs!

[locusmortis]

I wish Marvel still did OGN's, I would probably buy OML if they did as I liked Enemy of the State a lot.

on the subject of OGN's is anyone else looking forward to the black and white crime graphic that Vertigo is planning?

[johnnyhorror92182]

The last GOOD things Millar wrote, in my opinion was "Wolverine - Enemy of the State", "Wolverine - Agent of SHIELD" and "Marvel Knights Spider-Man" series.

[comicculturewarrior]

Remember that awesome Spider-Man OGN drawn by Bernie Wrightson back in the day? Man that thing creeped my out when I was a kid but now is one of my favorite OGN's ever.

That Vertigo line sounds interesting. I am all for trying out new things in this industry. Not that it's necessarily "new" but it will by something different than the norm.

J.

[locusmortis]

Marvel did some great Gn's around that time, the Wolverine/Nick Fury one and the Punisher in scotland one by John Wagner and Cam kennedy?

I'm looking forward to the Ian Rankin one the most, the fact its in black and white is another bonus. theres not enough black and white books out there.

[comicculturewarrior]

Check out Japan. They have quite a few black and white books I hear. :P

J.

[locusmortis]

haha :p

I'm over my manga phase I think. I just haven't found anything of interest in the last few years and the market is so flooded with it, its hard to see the wood from the trees.

and finally I hate that reading from right to left shit, that so called "authentic experience" that some manga snobs love. English speaking and reading people read from left to right and I will not read a book that isn't in that format. period.

[comicculturewarrior]

I myself don't mind the "authentic" format. I truly believe the reason why companies who translate manga to publish in other countries chose to start using the term "authenic" to save some fucking money. Years ago Dark Horse had people cut and pasting panels to give it a "mirrored" look so Americans could read them correctly. Now you tell people "This is the the REAL way to read manga" and all of a sudden you cut that process out and don't need to pay anyone to do it.

J.

[locusmortis]

Yeah, I think it was Tokyopop that started that process. Course that company was notorious for how it treated up and coming artists.

I used to read SuperMangaBlast and Animerica Extra and liked them a lot. They were actually more authentic representations of what a manga magazine is like...a big anthology printed on relatively cheap paper thats big value for money.

Reading from right to left just jarred with me and I gave up on manga.

[saar1707]

Why are U only uploading only one video a day?

[pmknight12]

Jose,

While l enjoy your no shades of gray/innerworld of absolutes, l have 2 pick your brain about something. Have u considered that it might not always be a mistep of the creator, but simply that you're not in a "place" whether it's this story or story(ies)-x , that resonate with u at this time.

after all:

people change

perceptions change

just wonderin'

knight out.

[comicculturewarrior]

I've considered that. Millar's work would probably resonate more with me if I was a fucking child. That's not a shot at you mate but consider these "cool/shocking" moments in his current comics:

Kick-Ass: Has a 10 year old girl slicing up gang members with a kitana.

OML: Having the Venom symbiote on a fucking T-Rex.

War Heroes: Taking up two panels with showing a penis and then giving us a view from behind the ballsack.

I find none of those "ideas" cool or shocking in the least.

J.

[Nkerklaan]

I understand where you're coming from, Jose, but frankly, part of the reason I read superhero comics is that they resonate with my inner ten-year-old. T-rex venoms and people being cut in half by little girls trigger my "Wheeee! Comics!" reflex. I can't help it.

But I also love Watchmen and Jimmy Corrigan so hopefully I'm keeping a balanced mindset.

[comicculturewarrior]

I'll probably pick up the trade myself, just to see what all the hubub is about. The book is just taking TOO FREAKING LONG to come out.

Elliott

[Nkerklaan]

Yeah, all the Venom T-rexes in the world can't excuse such ridiculously late books.

[pmknight12]

4give me Saar,as l am probably one of ten people that did not go see Wolverine, l did not pick up on any indication that there was a tie in between the film and OML

Why would M.Millars be any les impactful as a result of the movie being out?

[BlackPhoenix06]

OML is delayed because of McNiven's artistry, or so I've heard. Its said his work on Civil War is what caused that titles numerous delayes.

[comicculturewarrior]

Ya, Civil War was late MOSTLY because of McNiven but here's my question: Why the fuck would Marvel put the same guys who caused the Civil War shipping late debacle on another MONTHLY book? Sorry but that is piss poor managment by their piss poor E.I.C.

J.

[BlackPhoenix06]

I don't know inner and outs of comic book publishing but what I know is that from the look of McNivens artistry its understandable that he'd take a little more time than other atrists whose work isn't as miticulously detailed or gorgeously done.

Incidentantly, what time is where you are? Its nearly 4 in the morning where I am and I'm suprised to see you up. Shouldn't you be in bed to get up nice and early for work? :-)

[comicculturewarrior]

It's a little after 3 right now. I don't work Saturdays so I'm usually up late Fridays.

J.

[BlackPhoenix06]

You guys haven't talked about ASM in some time now. Have any thoughts on the upcoming Dark Reign tie-in arc American Son? There's a preview of the first issue up a Newsarama. I know how dearly you hold that site in your heart so hop on over and check it out if haven't. :-) As one who hasn't picked up ASM since November, it actually pretty darn interesting.

[comicculturewarrior]

You should have picked up the two issues that Marc Waid and Marcos Martin did together. They were great.

I don't know abut the American Son story. The reason we haven't talked about ASM the last few weeks is because the current Waid story is just alright and at times boring.

J.

[BlackPhoenix06]

I actually bought those issues of ASM based soley on your recommendation in a vid you did a while back. Suffice to say compared to what was published for the preponderence of 2008 in ASM, and so far in 2009 for that matter, Unschedualed Stop was a magnum opus.

American Son essentially see's Peter/Spidey confront the fact that his arch-enemy is ruling the country. Again, there's an 8 page preview up at Newsarama. Give a look and share your thoughts!

[locusmortis]

I don't buy that excuse for a moment. John Buscema did 2 books a month for years, never missed a deadline. thats because he put in the hard hours. Kirby did 4 books a month, sometimes more, working 14 hour days because he had a family to provide for.

Some artists these days have it too easy and are too pampered by their employers.

[BlackPhoenix06]

Maybe, maybe not. What is certian is that when McNiven does get his books out they are stunning, and its probably for that reason he's granted such leniency at Marvel.

[johnnyhorror92182]

Yeah, his art is stunning, but that's no exucuse.

[BlackPhoenix06]

Of course its an excuse. For what he produces its surprising he may take more time than lesser artists who work is far more simple and unrefined like say.......JRJR.

[johnnyhorror92182]

I want my books on time. I don't care how good the art is. Get it out on fucking time!

[BlackPhoenix06]

I guess. But I'd prefer a gorgeous every othr month than something by JRJR every month.

[locusmortis]

John Romita Jr is way way better than Steve McNiven.

McNivens stuff is nice but its so bland and rather dull. JR Jr is the spiritual heir to Kirby I think, his art is exagerrated and cartoony whereas McNiven is a Neal Adams type artist (though not as good as Adams), so its a matter of personal choice, its just pretty boring to hear the same argument all the time. If you actually look at Romita's art, theres a substance, a weight and a power to it that McNiven wouldn't even know how to elicit

[BlackPhoenix06]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As soon as saw that first line I new any subsequent comments by me would degrade our confabulation into an unpleasant back and forth of obsenities and spitefulness. I'll say this and leave it that: JRJR is awful. He's the worste artist I've ever seen and I am upset that he will be the main artist on ASM #600 which sees the return of Doc Ock! Contrarily, Steve McNiven's artsity, as I said once before, is what I live for in terms of comics. Very, very few compare, IMO. VERY FEW!

[locusmortis]

Why would it cause unpleasantness and obscenities over a difference of opinion. I mean I can be unpleasant to you if you like?

You think McNiven is great, I think your wrong. Neal Adams could draw rings around Mcniven, Alex Toth, John Buscema, all artists who were better and also could turn a job in ON TIME.

You think JR JR is bad, I think your very wrong but I don't hate you for it, pity you perhaps :p

I don't see why people need to take such extreme stands over differences of opinion.

[BlackPhoenix06]

I've had many online confabulations of this ilk before and know how they usually end. I'm glad you're more mature than most.

Of all the guys you mentioned there, I think McNiven is immeasurably superior. I'd say those guys are favorites of a past generation and McNiven artistry is of mine.

Pity for not liking JRJR artirsty? Thruth be told, the first time I ever saw his work I thought it was poorly done fan art. You wouldn't believe my disbelief when I found he get paid to draw that sh*t!

[locusmortis]

What you say dosen't anger or annoy me but it does puzzle me for sure. I think your so wrong at a fundamental level that its probably best to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Each to their own.

[BlackPhoenix06]

Thats cool, man. But you know what does upset me? JRJR drawing ASM #600. That upsets and greatly disappoints me. :-( Oh well. That'll be $5 saved for another of the numerous issue 600 Marvels pumping outr this year.

[comicculturewarrior]

Man, locus, I never that the day would come to hear people calling JRJR's work shit. It's a sad fucking day in comics because most people can't tell the legendary from the crap they are told is "good".

J.

[locusmortis]

Yeah, its pretty unbelievable. I've bought books I wouldn't ordinarily buy just because JRJR is on them. He keeps experimenting and changing his style over the years instead of staying stagnant like some.

Plus he's got an old school work ethic of where you finish a job when you promised to finish it, not when you've finished playing on the ps3 or whatever.

[BlackPhoenix06]

YES, JRJR is not very good at all. Not at all.

[comicculturewarrior]

OK, I'm ending this argument here: JRJR is a better artist than McNiven because 1) he's a consummate pro who doesn't need a year to finish a series that should be done in six months. 2) has the pedigree of being the son of one of Marvel's greatest artists 3)I just like him better and this is MY CHANNEL! :-P

The judges have spoken! No backsies!

Elliott

[pobra17]

I have to agree with you E. JRJR is one of my all time favorites. I do like McNiven but JRJR's stuff is so stylized and unique and i find it has better flow. Plus he gets his shit out on time which is a bonus.

[BlackPhoenix06]

HAhahah Okay, Elliot. Since you guys love JRJR so much, you given me the insperation needed to submit my craptastic stick figure drawings at Marvel. Hey, if JRJR AND his dads ugly work can be so revered(Yes, I don't like his dads work, either) then I'll be swimming in the cash for my artwork. You guys will be drooling when you see how quick and horridly I turn my art just like JRJR. Hell, I'd be able to offer Marvel a daily comic book much less a month or weekly one.

[comicculturewarrior]

HOLY..FUCKING...SHIT!!!

Did you just say John Romita Sr. also sucks?

Congratulations....I'm fucking speechless...

J.

[BlackPhoenix06]

You better believe it! Artistic wise, the Romita family is not my cup of tea.

[Nkerklaan]

Dude, you obviously don't know the first thing about art.

It's not even a matter of opinion at this point, you're free to dislike whatever you want, but dismissing JRJR as utter garbage like that makes it clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[BlackPhoenix06]

Is that right? Please, elucidate.

[Nkerklaan]

There's nothing to elucidate. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. The end.

[BlackPhoenix06]

But what do you mean exactly? You must have a reason for saying that. Its that reason I'm asking you share with me.

[Nkerklaan]

I already explained my reason:

"It's not even a matter of opinion at this point, you're free to dislike whatever you want, but dismissing JRJR as utter garbage like that makes it clear that you have no idea what you're talking about."

I'm not sure what else you want me to say. Maybe YOU should explain YOUR reason for thinking JRJR is shit instead of just saying it looks like "poorly done fan art".

What is it - technically, aesthetically - that makes you say that?

[BlackPhoenix06]

Okay???? o_O I know I can like or dislike whatever I choose, but why is it clear I don't know what I'm talking about?

All his characters resemble sqaure-faced cardboard cut outs and lack any refinement or attention to detail. Their are people on deviant art who put him to shame.

[Nkerklaan]

Objectively, JRJR's art is, at the very least, technically proficient and clearly done with a lot of skill. You can harp on what you don't like about it, for whatever reason you want (and he's by no means my favourite artist, either, though I do like him), but to say it requires absolutely no skill and you or some random deviantart person could do better is a statement made in clear ignorance of both JRJR's own skill and what goes into comic book art in general.

[BlackPhoenix06]

Its not ignorance. Its the truth. Compared to some of the artists on deviant art, JRJR artistry is absolute sh*t.

[Nkerklaan]

Yeah, obviously we can't have this argument because you're not even willing to give the other side any credence whatsoever.

[BlackPhoenix06]

What other side?

[Nkerklaan]

Uh... the side that disagrees with you?

Seriously, you're joking, right?

[BlackPhoenix06]

Listen, you like JRJR and thats cool. But its an appeal I will probably never understand and never care for.

[comicculturewarrior]

Awesome! I look forward to you becoming one of Marvel's Young Guns and working on the next 'event' with Bendis or Millar! Remember your peeps when you get to the big time my man!

Elliott

[pmknight12]

lronically Nkerklaan,u are not the only one that enjoys the Old Man Logan storyline & that's saying something.....4 me, anyway, because l've always felt that Logan was Marvels' most sickening fluke!

lf nothing else, it just goes 2 show u that in capable hands, a character that l have been repulsed by 4 many a moon, can have his moment in the sun. l can even feel empathy 4 him. (damn u, m.millar)

knight out

[saar1707]

It is not because Mark miller it's because the movie came out and they went new readers to pick this up and know what up...

[saar1707]

Wolverine #73 was shit! a waste of time until old man logan will end...

[BlackPhoenix06]

Damn. Sounds like you didn't enjoy issue 73 and as much CCW did. May I ask why?

[saar1707]

I hate filler episodes... in comic, manga and anime I hate those!

[BlackPhoenix06]

I couldn't agree more with about filler, ESPECIALLY in anime. They are invaribly insufferable. There's a filler going on now in Naruto Shippuden that is so abysmal it feels interminable. Can't wait 'till its over.

Have you been enjoying OML, though?

[BlackPhoenix06]

I know. Crap like that is crippling what was once an incredible anime.

[comicculturewarrior]

Technically Wolverine #73 WAS NOT a 'filler issue' as it was scheduled to come out AFTER Wolverine #72, the end of the OML story arc. They just put this issue out early since they had it completed. Why penalize Aaron and Co. for getting THEIR BOOK done on time? Would it have been better if it came out 2 months later and you got NO WOLVERINE book for a month?

Elliott

[Nkerklaan]

War Heroes #3 isn't even out yet?

I dropped it after #2 and assumed it had wrapped up a long fucking time ago.

But am I the only one who actually likes Old Man Logan?

And Kick-Ass?

[comicculturewarrior]

War Heroes #3 never came out.

I can not stand Kick-Ass or Old Man Logan. Trying so hard to be cool and hip for the sake of being cool and hip. Like Bendis, Mark Millar is one the most overrated people in comics today.

Also like Bendis, he USED to be good. His work is just fucking sad now (when it comes out).

J.

[locusmortis]

Oh man his work on 2000AD when he started out was fucking horrible, I still have bad memories about his time on Robo Hunter.

[Nkerklaan]

I've heard that argument from people about Millar before, and I guess I can see it, but so much of mainstream and even non-mainstream comics is pop culture references and various attempts to be various kinds of "hip" that it's never really bothered me. Grant Morrison does it regularly, albeit a hell of a lot better.

My biggest problem with Millar is that his dialogue can be clunky, but he has a knack for big fun stupid plots that keep me entertained.

Except Ultimate X-Men, that was balls.

[pobra17]

I am actually kind of enjoying OML, though I do think it would have been a better choice to make it into an original graphic novel. Kick-Ass on the other hand I just can't bring myself to read. I love John Romita but i can't stand the idea of comics being written strictly as devices to hype shitty movies, so our wallets can be raped at both ends. Plus the whole premise of that book just seems silly and has been done to death anyways. It just seems redundant at this point.

[Truth4Power]

Mark Millar Tony Harris

War Heroes #3

I'm still waiting...

2 issues in one year.