Jim Jeffries-Gus Ruhlin #2 - Nov 15 1901 - Naimark

[jhs1958]

andrewr62 - Klitschko certainly has some power ! Both Klitschkos ! But, Fitzsimmons did too. Phenomenal power, especially for his size. However, the Klitschkos move slowly whereas Fit was quick and slippery. Jeffries would get inside and bash the big boys whereas Fitz was hard to corner or get close to.

[jhs1958]

romienomie - so did Jeffries, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, etc. - best Ali 64-67 and best Jeffries 99-05 - but still believe Ali to be overrated.

[jhs1958]

huntershowreel - Do you hold Jeffries' loss to Johnson against him ? - best Ali 64-67 and best Jeffries 99-05 - but still believe Ali to be overrated.

[huntershowreel]

@jhs1958 - of course not! That would be a terrible contradiction given what I just wrote. I don't believe anyone can hold Ali's form against him when he was visibly in decline, anymore than any sensible person can hold Jeffries loss to Johnson against him, given he was coming off a 5 year retirement. People on YouTube should judge boxers on their peak, that's all.

[jhs1958]

romienomie - Ali got beat by some patsies too. The true greats would not.

[bandit7498]

@jhs1958 The only fighter Ali lost to that he SHOULDN'T have was Spinks. Many think Ali lost that fight on purpose so he could win the title back a 3rd time. Even if he didn't he was WAYYY past his prime and under prepared. Can't really argue that the other fighters to beat him had a legitimate chance from the start, especially in the times of his career he was beaten. In his prime he was untouchable. If you don't think he was great (even if not the greatest) you just don't know boxing.

[jhs1958]

@bandit7498 What? Others should have beaten him? Then, how is he the greatest? I never said he wasn't great. I just said he wasn't the greatest - and is overrated. By the way, Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper put him down when he was young and "at his peak" - so how was he untouchable? Jurgen Blin got in on him all night long. Had that been Dempsey, Ali would have been flat.

[bandit7498]

@jhs1958 . I remember talking with you in the past and how you turned out to be a real prick. Anyway, the banks fight was not Ali in his prime, he was still very young. The Cooper fight, he didn't even train for and joked with him because he didn't take him serious. After winning the title he beat Cooper in a rematch like child's play. You act as if Dempsey never had an off night. By all rights Dempsey should have beaten Tunney. But he was inactive. Hmm. Sounds like Ali

[jhs1958]

truthhitmanisback - "Black Jack" - one of the ring's MOST overrated fighters !

[jhs1958]

andrewr62 - that door swings both ways - Klitschko never met Jeffries - an exception ! Klitschko ends up on his back. Correction - Klitschkos end up on their backs.

[jhs1958]

andrewr62 - no need to hope - he did handle their punches. I think you under-estimate Corbett as a boxer and Fitz as a hitter.

[jhs1958]

muskratrowdy - best Ali 64-67 and best Jeffries 99-05 - but still believe Ali to be overrated.

[jhs1958]

I agree with your facts - best Ali 64-67 and best Jeffries 99-05 - but still believe Ali to be overrated.

[jhs1958]

Wladimir punched himself out aginst weaker chins than Jeffries. Wlad would be on his back looking uip against Jeffries.

[jhs1958]

A last place baseball eam beats a first place baseball team sometimes - but is NOT better. Ali might beat some of the greatest heavies but that doesn't man he is a better overall fighter.

[Alltimeboxing]

Jeff lost one fight ok but he didn't fought 30 times in his career !

I like him so much as a boxer, physically he would have been good against other sluggers like Foreman, Frazier or Liston, perhaps Louis... I'd love to see him today, destroying an Valuev or Klitschko..

but easy target for Ali. Ali loved to outbox these slow, hard hitters.

[jhs1958]

Ali is way overrated. He lost five fights and got decisions in 4-5 others he should have lost (actually he truly lost those) Overrated..

[Yrkoonz]

That's silly logic. Ali hit Frazier a zillion times in 1971, too, and couldn't knock him out. Then Foreman comes along just two years later and bounces frazier off the canvas a half dozen times like a basketball. Who's the greater fighter then? Ali? Or Foreman...

The point is, Styles make fights. Dempsey just happened to be a bigger puncher than Johnson... doesn't neccessarily mean he's "better"

[jhs1958]

I'll take Dempsey over Johnson.

[krufka69]

To jhs1958 !

I sent you mail :)

please answer

greetings from oversees

M.

[jhs1958]

Ho, ho, ho. Tell us another one !!!

[krufka69]

to jhs1958

I sent you mail :)

please answer :)

greetings from oversees

[krufka69]

TO jhs 1958:

I sent you mail :)

please answer :)

greetings from oversees

[krufka69]

To jhs1958

I sent you mail :)

please answer.

greetings from oversees

M.

[hazmat1000]

Comparing Jeffries/Johnson fight is like comparing to Louis/Marciano or Johnson/Willard fight........great fighters over the hill and we all know the rest of the story. Johnson was "smoother" Jeffries "tougher" so it would have been one hell of a fight. My money is on Jeffries tho.

[jhs1958]

Johnson lost five fights before Jeffries retired, one shortly before. Jeffries lost none before retiring. (I suspect many of Johnson's fights were setups, fighting the same men repeatedly.)

[aappty]

imo, prime jeffries would have wore johnson down and stop him in rnd 28 or something after absorbing a tremendous beating. the jeffries that fought johnson was no longer interested in fighting. he didn't want to come out of retirement and when he did he just didn't have it in him to go through what he needed to to get the w. 1895 jeffries = different story.

[jhs1958]

Amen !!! Also, so what if Johnson beat Jeffries. Look at how many other fights he lost. Jeffries lost just the one.

[efplanetvideos]

Jim Jeffries himself said that he could not have beaten Jack Johnson even in his prime. Its hard to argue with the man if he said it himself. Sorry but Johnson was the greatest. He was champion for seven years and that was after the white champions ducked him for 5 years.

[jhs1958]

Jeffries' comment was immediately after being beaten - so he saw it that way. A little while later, after he had time to think about it, he said it was "time that beat him" - just like Ali, Louis, Dempsey, and Johnson.

[dorsi68]

Johnson also said in his biography that Jefferies was the greatest heavyweight ever. Ali said once Tyson would have beaten him (in 1988 or so) ... sometimes you say things for the sake of saying it. I think Jefferies was the greatest ever ... maybe Johnson was the best as he is certainly amoung the 3 greatest heavyweights ever ... but most experts agree at that time that Jefferies was the best and over 15 rounds to 25 rounds , I can not see anyone beating Jefferies :)

[LorcanFilms]

Dorsi, you "can't see anyone beating Jefferies." Choynski - at 165 lb. - held him to a draw. Ruhlin held him to a draw. Old versions of Corbett and Fitz took him into late rds. and winning. I see Tunney beating the slow, plodding, but resilent Jeff ... easy. Ali, too. Too many smaller, lighter guys (like those above) gave Jeff life and death struggles to call him the greatest. Although, his only loss to Johnson is not to Jeff's detriment. He was washed up.

[jhs1958]

The draws were very early in Jeffries career. He was the better man in each of these bouts. Against Corbett and Fitz, the bout was held in a very large ring, bigger than today's ring. Yet, Jeffries caught up to them and won. I doubt that Louis, Marciano and many others would have caught Corbett and Fitz.

[jhs1958]

Thanks for the data. I still pick Jeffries.

Your argument is like saying Kansas City beat the Yankees one game so they're a better team.

[dorsi68]

Jim Jeffries was the greatest heavyweight bar none. He had great punching power and stanima, beat Jim Corbett who was better than Gene Tunney and Tom Sharkey who would have knocked out Marciano or Frazier and is not only the best non-heavyweight champion fighter , but top 10 heavyweight ever. He also beat the greatest middleweight and light-heavyweight ever in Bob Fritzmons

[bradlee180]

Joe Choynski, a white man not much over 162 lbs, KO'd 22 year old heavyweight Jack Johnson in 3 rds. Both were jailed for a month as boxing was illegal, and Joe taught Jack much of the defensive maneuvers he knew during that month.

[bradlee180]

Nowadays Jeffries is truly the forgotten champion, but well into the 1950's, he was still being ranked in the top 5 greatest heavyweights in history. Too much is made of his loss to a PRIME Jack Johnson which happened AFTER Jim had been retired for 6 years, had put on 100 lbs, was 35 years old, and no warmup fights (like a shot Ali against a PRIME Holmes).

[jhs1958]

If Johnson was so great, how come a clumsy fighter like Willard beat him ?

[rj1040]

Willard was at the absolute peak of his condition--far better than in his fight with Dempsey. Johnson, on the other hand, was overweight and despite his skill as a defensive boxer could not effectively counter Willard's skilful use of height and reach advantage. Further, Willard could take a punch. Johnson threw his best punches in the earlier rounds of the contest and seldom made any real impression on Willard.

[NemeanLion]

Well to be fair, Johnson was way past his prime when he fought Willard. As for Jeffires fighting Johnson in his prime, it would be a much different fight. I'm not entirely sure which way the fight would go, but I seriously doubt Johnson would've stopped him.

[coxscorner]

Because he was 37 hadn't fought much due to exile and it was the 26th round? Johnson actually dominated the first 15 rounds of the fight before he tired.

[criceto]

it is called :" getting old" , Jeffry was old too and get beaten.

[Aurelian147]

Johnson was past his best, hadn't trained properly and, after winning each of the first 20 rounds in the Havana heat, completely exhausted.

[clawfish1]

may i pt out..he hit willard a MILLION times n cudnt deck him once,dempsey decked the same guy 7x in 1rd..how hard a puncher do u think jack was???if you arent a big httr can u b considered a great fighter??

[Hairmetalfan1990]

Ali wasnt a big hitter and he is the Best HW Ever man

Might I add that the Willard that fought Johnson was 4 years younger and in his Pime compared the one Dempsey Destroyd that was 37 and hadnt fouhght in 3 years

[jhs1958]

You must be very young. Those of us that have seen the heavies for many years don't buy the ALI MYTH.

[Hairmetalfan1990]

Tell me 1 HW that has a Better resume than Ali?

[cassius66]

Johnson would have crushed Jeffries no matter when they fought.

[andrewr62]

I disagree. I think before 1905 Jeffries could have won. Johnson was not yet in his prime and was beaten

by an over-the-hill Joe Choynski (ko'd) and was out hustled by the very average Marvin Hart.

[jhs1958]

Hey Popemalevolent -- What excuse Johnson when you laugh at other old timers due to the jerky film ? Are you biased ? I think so.

[popemalevolent]

Johnson COULD fient and was technically sharp, but not like Louis, Tunney and others. I havent seen alot of johnsons fights, to be honest they are grainy/jerky and you cant get much from them, other than that he had a low handed defensive stance and relied on alot of speed.

[popemalevolent]

Yeah thats true, alot are completely out of shape, you dont see any guys under 220 lbs yet foreman, frazier liston and many others before them had bigger punches than todays guys. But still, look at jeffries and J Johnson, he could fient and that but he couldnt counter so well, the skills hadnt been developed. Tunney was one of the first modern technical boxers. Ps look at the Fitzimmons v Jeffries fight on here, i think it was just a re-enactment but that sums up the styles of the times!

[jhs1958]

Jeffries last fought in 1904. Johnson had 42 fights since Jeffries retired. Was he rusty ? Besides, he usaually walked through jabs and punches - did not focus on conuntering them. Jeff and Fitz are NOT the men in the re-enactment.

[popemalevolent]

Ok its imitation, but you gotta laugh. Jeffries was past it when he came back but that wasnt the point i was making; "look at jeffries and J Johnson, he could fient and that but he couldnt counter so well" I was talking about Johnson, not Johnson v Jeffries.

[popemalevolent]

Well done for putting a rare piece of heavyweight history on here. I dont think Jeffries or any other contempories of his would have the skill to beat todays fighters, as tough as they were and as dire as ours are. Boxing has evolved to far, these guys were wrestling for the most part.

[jhs1958]

Sorry, but I disagree. Today's boxers lack a lot of skills and CONDITIONING. Liston and Foreman would do OK. So would Jeffries.

[Lava1964]

Wow! I've never seen this clip before. Thanks for posting it.

[jhs1958]

Don't you think he'd start his attacks sooner if the fight was for fewer rounds ? I do.

[NemeanLion]

Jeffries is an all time great, but I think he'd lose many of todays big matches by decision. He was the best at the turn of the century, because he was the toughest of the tough and relied upon his strength and durability to overcome sometimes more skilled opponents. Back then, he had plenty of time to catch up. Today, he'd start coming on, just as the fight was ending. Different era's.

[ShawnCastle]

Yea he would knock out any fighter today wityh his surprise left.

[jhs1958]

I agree with you. Tough with a capital "T" !!!

[jhs1958]

Yes and broke a couple of ribs too.