idk if i should retract that previous statement or not wayoftheforesthand. i was told by my former acquaintance that they pay a monthly stipend to sojourn church planting. to a guy named Brian Howard, their former pastor. Brian is a self proclaiming acts 29 regional coordinator who's new job is planting churches- aka touring Europe and making videos literally. it seems hard to pin this flow of money, because its sounds so much like money laundering I'll see if Brian has an answer for me or not.
@drakegod84 what you described sounds very much like what many people would call missions work. church planting, witnessing, all pretty common things. whats even more common is for a church to send money to them. small churches, medium churches, and mega churchs all do it. thats what part of tithe normally goes to, always has.
@drakegod84 I understand your aggravation but your basis is false. Pastors actually spend more time doing pastoral work than almost any other vocation. Pastors don't just just up one to two times a week a give a speech, they spend countless hours helping people and making sure the church is running and the congregation is taken care of. I know this because I've worked with the pastors/interns at my church.
@drakegod84 They don't do it for the money, they do it because they believe God has called them to do it and because that's what they love to do. Tithing is a commandment of God, not a scheme cooked up by pastors who want to get rich. Money that is tithed goes to upkeep of the building and facilities and something called a benevolence fund (the fund that goes to making sure the congregation is taken care of).
@drakegod84 In fact, most pastors barely make ends meet. Some even have to get second jobs to put food on the table. Mars Hill happens to be a very blessed church.
@BryBry323 that's hilarious dude come on???? why would you join into a scam that doesn't pay? think about it.the national average is 77,000 dollars for the average! what so you think the big guys get in the mega churches like Marks place? hundreds and hundreds of thousands!
Chosen election.. I'm not trying to argue with you I actually 1/16 like Christians, but I think it's pretty pathetic that a person like him would pray on people's believes in order to get ahead and leach ahead by way of manipulation of his congregation.... I don't like it!
Force this upon you or kick you out of the church. seriously Mars hill churches everywhere will kick your ass out if you don't obey your demagogues happened to me and one of the reasons I'm no longer religious is because I seen pass the scheme.....
Of course! lol Wow this is what it really comes down too huh Mark of course it does. Number one reason not to be a Christian right here folks its a fucking scam! its a business! This is not the way toward salvation this is the way to bankruptcy and supporting human leaches like Mark Driscoll. BTW same scam use since the creation of religion example: sacrifice your fattest of lambs to the temple, give 10% of all your hard earned wages to one person?!?!?! I wouldn't put it pass mark to
@polypride34 Point given, but if you look at this from a con-artist's point you'll be able to scam the entire religious populous. how often would you think that the priest in those situations took from the people? well probably just as much as Mark driscoll does or the Catholic church does. if your in that position ripping off people and taking advantage of their gullibility is far to easy. the priest had a reliable sorce of incom and food every week because if you don't sacrifice
@polypride34 and give your 10% you're sinning and god won't forgive you. Fastfoward this to 2011. Same scam is still being used, but different approach. Sure priest still use the whole you don't give you you don't live BS. dnt believe me watch TBN. Mark has came up with something brilliant though, he says you dnt give people arn't going to be saved "because of you!" Even thou he's a Calvinist and is fully aware that Calvinism doesn't believe in pulpit salvation, salvation is from
@drakegod84 lol idk bout mark .. i disagree with some stuff he says too. but with my pastor he dont ask us to give to support him but to support the building. i have been going to my church all my life. i think its only right for me to contribute a lil the helping keep the place running. Joseph was the one who came up with the 10% in egypt. but i do agree some pastor to pocket the money and dont really use it all for the church and thats just wrong.
@polypride34 I'm sure every convert thinks as you do."Not my pastor" how would you know? Saying there's a need for a "Building fund" is the biggest cliche of all time. No offense but why are Christians so disingenuous? Why not be honest and say hey give me your money, because I have to come here 2 times a week at best and deserve 100,000 dollars a year for working less than 114 days????? Its like they received their entitlements from wall street or something lol
@drakegod84 here is just a little info for you, pasters are unable to set their own salary. a pasters salary is different then a guy on tv. Pasters salary are set by a outside source which evaluates number of people, income, and some other facts. they then compares it to other church of that size and income and decides the pasters income. if the church starts giving him more on the side they risk losing the whole tax exempt status.
@wayoftheforesthand Ok i ll give you that there are regulations in income do to irs policies- forgive me for using your explanation, but what makes you explicitly sure that there is a difference between televangelist and small town preachers? secondly wouldn't you say that Mars hill classifies as a Televangelist network/ they lack nothing TBN has right?
@drakegod84 what difference are you talking about? are you trying to say they are all in it for the money? small town pasters are not rich. huge city pasters do make a very nice income, no doubt, but they are not mega millionaires by any means. they are not making hundreds of thousands of dollors a year. look up the average pastors salary. its a nice income, but a good pastor works every day of the week. its why burn out is VERY high. its not just a sunday job.
@drakegod84 I did look up the national average for a pastors salary. its between about $77,096 and $56,000. from what I have researched only a few years ago he claimed about the same as the average salary from the church. remember there are 30 pastors on staff. at 70k a yr thats 2.1 million for pastors not staff which is around 100. I would like to see the where his church salary is so huge. now could he be making money on the side from book deals? yes but thats not church salary.
@wayoftheforesthand are you speaking about mark? do you know him personally or are you speaking about some other pastor? well the two sites i referred you to speak about the "national average" that megachurch pastors make and what small town local churches make, which is solely determined by their number of congregation. and yes mark does have books and I'm sure his church, like any other megachurch, holds quarterly conferences. these conferences usually cost 60 bucks or more
@drakegod84 a pop so I'm sure that Mark- lets not forget he's co-founder and is the head of the Acts 29 network- receives plenty of stipends from other sister churches - I am assuming this information, since every other organized church does the same thing IE Catholic Southerner Baptist ETC. Note, I am asking a pastor about this info as i type and will retract if wrong- due to his status. your talking about millions and millions just going to this one guy.
Of course! lol Wow this is what it really comes down too huh Mark of course it does. Number one reason not to be a Christian right here folks its a fucking scam! its a business! This is not the way toward salvation this is the way to bankruptcy and supporting human leaches like Mark Driscoll. BTW same scam use since the creation of religion example: sacrifice your fattest of lambs to the temple, give 10% of all your hard earned wages to one person?!?!?! I wouldn't put it pass mark to
If you don't go to a church where you either know the answer to that question OR trust the leadership who's job it is to make such decisions implicity...then serveral OTHER questions need to be asked instead.
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The truth about giving; Exdous Chapter 20:vers.17 Thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbour's. The 10th commandment.
brotherfrank62 2 months ago
God needs money!!! What a joke!
Occupy Jesus' wallet!!! He shouldve turned water to cash instead if wine.
Schtayven 2 months ago
@Schtayven glad you watched this video. Keep watching, this stuff will eventually change you.
getteedoff 2 months ago
@getteedoff
yeah it will, hah, itll remind me how much i need to be on the opposition
read the bible of what real tithing is supposed to be
it has nothing to do with money at all, its a feast
Schtayven 2 months ago
idk if i should retract that previous statement or not wayoftheforesthand. i was told by my former acquaintance that they pay a monthly stipend to sojourn church planting. to a guy named Brian Howard, their former pastor. Brian is a self proclaiming acts 29 regional coordinator who's new job is planting churches- aka touring Europe and making videos literally. it seems hard to pin this flow of money, because its sounds so much like money laundering I'll see if Brian has an answer for me or not.
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 what you described sounds very much like what many people would call missions work. church planting, witnessing, all pretty common things. whats even more common is for a church to send money to them. small churches, medium churches, and mega churchs all do it. thats what part of tithe normally goes to, always has.
wayoftheforesthand 2 months ago
Great video. So true that the church needs to give more.
stueyt100 2 months ago
@stueyt100 are you fucking serious? tell the pastor and elders to give back to the church!
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 They do give back to the church but most churches make no money at all because the people in the church don't give.
stueyt100 2 months ago
@drakegod84 I understand your aggravation but your basis is false. Pastors actually spend more time doing pastoral work than almost any other vocation. Pastors don't just just up one to two times a week a give a speech, they spend countless hours helping people and making sure the church is running and the congregation is taken care of. I know this because I've worked with the pastors/interns at my church.
BryBry323 2 months ago
@drakegod84 They don't do it for the money, they do it because they believe God has called them to do it and because that's what they love to do. Tithing is a commandment of God, not a scheme cooked up by pastors who want to get rich. Money that is tithed goes to upkeep of the building and facilities and something called a benevolence fund (the fund that goes to making sure the congregation is taken care of).
BryBry323 2 months ago
@drakegod84 In fact, most pastors barely make ends meet. Some even have to get second jobs to put food on the table. Mars Hill happens to be a very blessed church.
BryBry323 2 months ago
@BryBry323 that's hilarious dude come on???? why would you join into a scam that doesn't pay? think about it.the national average is 77,000 dollars for the average! what so you think the big guys get in the mega churches like Marks place? hundreds and hundreds of thousands!
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 plus bonuses forgot all about that! and yes they do get them!
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 so more like 77,000 a year! bull shit
drakegod84 2 months ago
Chosen election.. I'm not trying to argue with you I actually 1/16 like Christians, but I think it's pretty pathetic that a person like him would pray on people's believes in order to get ahead and leach ahead by way of manipulation of his congregation.... I don't like it!
drakegod84 2 months ago
Force this upon you or kick you out of the church. seriously Mars hill churches everywhere will kick your ass out if you don't obey your demagogues happened to me and one of the reasons I'm no longer religious is because I seen pass the scheme.....
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 mars hill preaches against religious people but u shouldn't let one church ruin ur relationship with God thats silly.
polypride34 2 months ago
Of course! lol Wow this is what it really comes down too huh Mark of course it does. Number one reason not to be a Christian right here folks its a fucking scam! its a business! This is not the way toward salvation this is the way to bankruptcy and supporting human leaches like Mark Driscoll. BTW same scam use since the creation of religion example: sacrifice your fattest of lambs to the temple, give 10% of all your hard earned wages to one person?!?!?! I wouldn't put it pass mark to
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 they burned the lamb dude only some of the sacrifices was for the people who worked in the tabernacle because they had to eat too
polypride34 2 months ago
@polypride34 Point given, but if you look at this from a con-artist's point you'll be able to scam the entire religious populous. how often would you think that the priest in those situations took from the people? well probably just as much as Mark driscoll does or the Catholic church does. if your in that position ripping off people and taking advantage of their gullibility is far to easy. the priest had a reliable sorce of incom and food every week because if you don't sacrifice
drakegod84 2 months ago
@polypride34 and give your 10% you're sinning and god won't forgive you. Fastfoward this to 2011. Same scam is still being used, but different approach. Sure priest still use the whole you don't give you you don't live BS. dnt believe me watch TBN. Mark has came up with something brilliant though, he says you dnt give people arn't going to be saved "because of you!" Even thou he's a Calvinist and is fully aware that Calvinism doesn't believe in pulpit salvation, salvation is from
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 lol idk bout mark .. i disagree with some stuff he says too. but with my pastor he dont ask us to give to support him but to support the building. i have been going to my church all my life. i think its only right for me to contribute a lil the helping keep the place running. Joseph was the one who came up with the 10% in egypt. but i do agree some pastor to pocket the money and dont really use it all for the church and thats just wrong.
polypride34 2 months ago
@polypride34 I'm sure every convert thinks as you do."Not my pastor" how would you know? Saying there's a need for a "Building fund" is the biggest cliche of all time. No offense but why are Christians so disingenuous? Why not be honest and say hey give me your money, because I have to come here 2 times a week at best and deserve 100,000 dollars a year for working less than 114 days????? Its like they received their entitlements from wall street or something lol
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 here is just a little info for you, pasters are unable to set their own salary. a pasters salary is different then a guy on tv. Pasters salary are set by a outside source which evaluates number of people, income, and some other facts. they then compares it to other church of that size and income and decides the pasters income. if the church starts giving him more on the side they risk losing the whole tax exempt status.
wayoftheforesthand 2 months ago
@wayoftheforesthand Ok i ll give you that there are regulations in income do to irs policies- forgive me for using your explanation, but what makes you explicitly sure that there is a difference between televangelist and small town preachers? secondly wouldn't you say that Mars hill classifies as a Televangelist network/ they lack nothing TBN has right?
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 what difference are you talking about? are you trying to say they are all in it for the money? small town pasters are not rich. huge city pasters do make a very nice income, no doubt, but they are not mega millionaires by any means. they are not making hundreds of thousands of dollors a year. look up the average pastors salary. its a nice income, but a good pastor works every day of the week. its why burn out is VERY high. its not just a sunday job.
wayoftheforesthand 2 months ago
@wayoftheforesthand dude stop being stupid and look up the info for your self here if i'm still not booted i'll bring a site back as a reference
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 I did look up the national average for a pastors salary. its between about $77,096 and $56,000. from what I have researched only a few years ago he claimed about the same as the average salary from the church. remember there are 30 pastors on staff. at 70k a yr thats 2.1 million for pastors not staff which is around 100. I would like to see the where his church salary is so huge. now could he be making money on the side from book deals? yes but thats not church salary.
wayoftheforesthand 2 months ago
@wayoftheforesthand are you speaking about mark? do you know him personally or are you speaking about some other pastor? well the two sites i referred you to speak about the "national average" that megachurch pastors make and what small town local churches make, which is solely determined by their number of congregation. and yes mark does have books and I'm sure his church, like any other megachurch, holds quarterly conferences. these conferences usually cost 60 bucks or more
drakegod84 2 months ago
@drakegod84 a pop so I'm sure that Mark- lets not forget he's co-founder and is the head of the Acts 29 network- receives plenty of stipends from other sister churches - I am assuming this information, since every other organized church does the same thing IE Catholic Southerner Baptist ETC. Note, I am asking a pastor about this info as i type and will retract if wrong- due to his status. your talking about millions and millions just going to this one guy.
drakegod84 2 months ago
@polypride34 But yeah when I was a Christian I always thought that Tithing was just as much bullshit as taxes just saying...
drakegod84 2 months ago
Of course! lol Wow this is what it really comes down too huh Mark of course it does. Number one reason not to be a Christian right here folks its a fucking scam! its a business! This is not the way toward salvation this is the way to bankruptcy and supporting human leaches like Mark Driscoll. BTW same scam use since the creation of religion example: sacrifice your fattest of lambs to the temple, give 10% of all your hard earned wages to one person?!?!?! I wouldn't put it pass mark to
drakegod84 2 months ago
Building an empire now huh?
fredrockt47 2 months ago
what will you do with the money?
jordler 2 months ago
If you don't go to a church where you either know the answer to that question OR trust the leadership who's job it is to make such decisions implicity...then serveral OTHER questions need to be asked instead.
TheEdge012 2 months ago
@jordler I think he answers that in the video. They are starting churches in tons of places, and churches/buildings etc cost money.
SAPierce2006 2 months ago