WORLD'S FIRST: 4 track cartridge player (in-car stereo) made in 1962

[SamuraiClinton]

I only used 8 tracks a few times as a teenager only out of curiosity.

They were never really anything to make practical use of in the modern day, they are only a piece of nostalgia.

[rarbiart]

the compact cassette adapter had an additional battery inside to operate?

[mkkiani]

@rarbiart You must be wondering about the cassette signals going to the head on the cartridge player. No, it was all driven with mechanical connections so no additional power was needed for the adapter. The signal from the adapter head was taken by wires to a coil which sat in front of the player head.

[rarbiart]

@mkkiani The signal from the MC head was strong enoughto drive a coil directly to output to the cartridge player? must have been very efficient then.

[tripjet999]

Actually, a 4-track cartridge has FOUR music tracks and an 8-track cartridge has EIGHT music tracks (Stereo L&R). Now, if said two and four "program" tracks, you would be correct.

[mkkiani]

@tripjet999 No, I prefer to say 4 mono tracks or 2 stereo tracks as this is understood in the UK & USA. But of course it is 4 mono programs or 2 stereo programs in the US. Regards.

[lrd9999]

I'm surprised that they didn't introduce a 1+7/8 IPS version of the 4 track. It would have had the same playing time and fidelity as an 8 track with the same amount of tape, but the access would have been even more awkward. Of course, there would have been less need to cut songs in half.

[OlegKostoglatov]

It may have had the same playing time as an 8 track but not the same fidelity, the general rule when it comes to tapes is tha higher speed equals higher fidelity. This was the main setback for the Phillips compact cassettes in competing with 8 tracks and LP records, because they operated at a slower speed they had poorer fidelity and were only really useful for dictation until the Dolby system came out in the late 70s.

[lrd9999]

@OlegKostoglatov I would think that having double the track width (.25/4" rather than .25/8") would make up for the reduced speed, though I imagine there would have been some subtle difference. There might even be a slight advantage since the wider tracks stay aligned with the heads more reliably (8 tracks were notorious for crosstalk).

[OlegKostoglatov]

I haven't noticed crosstalk being much of an issue on most of my 8 tracks, unless there is a head alignment issue or the preasure pad is shot. At the time four and eight track cartridges were conceived there was no Dolby system of course so 3-3/4 Inches per second was likely considered the slowest speed they could work with to maintain high fidelty. I've noticed that 3-3/4 inches per second also seems to be the low end on most reel to reel machines and those are typically four tracks.

[lrd9999]

@OlegKostoglatov Something other than Dolby and METAL or CrO2 must have been improving tape technology in general during the '70s. Most tapes I remember recording in the early '70s were almost un-listenable; by '75 I had a deck plugged into my stereo that sounded OK even with cheap tapes; by the early '80s, even cheap tapes recorded on cheap machines sounded bearable when played back on a decent machine. The 15/4 IPS speed probably was an absolute necessity before that period.

[mkkiani]

@lrd9999 All the issues you both raised were a problem

1. speed determines frequency response. Philips decided playing time over rides quality (competing against 80 minute 4 tracks.

2. Track crosstalk was never tolerated.

3. Dolby system reduced noise but also reduced sound quality.

4. Tape hiss and machine noise were tackled in 1972 by Philips. New invention in circuit design to cancel noises from oscillation circuits was successful. Thus you noticed improved music playback.

[lrd9999]

@mkkiani That makes sense. I know I almost never used Dolby, but was still impressed with the improvement, though I'm much more bothered by frequency response issues than noise. I had always assumed that gradual improvements in both the tape and heads improved the frequency response during that time, even on cheap PM-DC bias machines. The 8 track decks I remember had a 4 track 2 position head instead of a fixed 8 track head; that might have explained the crosstalk I noticed.

[OlegKostoglatov]

I think it was as I figured, the compact cassettes were originally intended for dictation so sound quality wasn't the original objective. I had forgotten about that, Dolby was for noise reduction not improved fidelity, apparently some of the later higher end eight track machines also had Dolby though I have never seen one that did. Noise and fidelity doesn't seem to be an issue with my 8 track machines at all, sometimes crosstalk if the tape is in bad shape or the head is a bit off.

[OlegKostoglatov]

On the other hand I have noticed that many of my cassettes have a cross talk problem, sometimes you can hear it during the quiet portions, always in reverse of course. It stands to reason that Phillips would improve the design of their cassette tapes, I think that the research department at Phillips rivaled that of RCA, G.E or the Bell labs at one time, I've found their equipment much better designed then most of their European rivals.

[mkkiani]

@OlegKostoglatov You should try adjusting the play/record head. There are usually two screws to hold the head in place, one is adjustable and controls the azimuth - ensuring that the head reads the right track so avoiding cross talk. Good luck.

[lrd9999]

@OlegKostoglatov That makes sense, an auto-rev cassette deck should have the same vulnerabilities as an 8 track player; no way to set the head perfectly for all positions. I just took a look at a 40 year old 8-track player in my basement; it had just 2 windings in the head with a cam for the 4 positions. It must not have gotten a lot of use; I could hear much more hiss than crosstalk. The chassis of the deck was built like a boat anchor; hardly any plastic.

[OlegKostoglatov]

What I have often though of is why they didn't come out with a more compact continous loop tape cartridge to compete with the Phillips style compact cassettes. When it comes to cassettes it's typically the machine that fails and eats the tape (or any tape) so a simpler mechanism like a cartridge player would have worked quite well.

[lrd9999]

@OlegKostoglatov I'll bet the inability to rewind was the biggest drawback. I borrowed a tape years ago to play in the 1973 Cadillac I was driving at the time; just being able to flip the "program" was very strange; I can't imagine putting up with that on a regular basis. With auto-rev and track-finder, cassettes became almost tolerable, but 8-tracks probably got a bum rap on sound quality because so few recorders were sold and pre-recorded tapes of any format were dreadful.

[OlegKostoglatov]

Some eight track players have a fast forward feature, and because they operate in a continous loop you wouldn't need to rewind even if you could. I don't know where you are but eight track recorders seem to turn up on a fairly regular basis in my area of the world, in every box of eight tracks someone sends my way I find at least home recording cartridge so they obviously found some use.

[shoprat17]

@lrd9999 check my channel out once, I have a few tracks on there recorded from 8 track. almost all of them are from pretty well worn in tracks, and even they are still pretty good. Being unable to rewind does bite sometimes, but sometimes what one could do is when one is over but they want to hear another at the end you could switch tracks and hear something in the middle and on some tapes it would time out good and you could swap to the other track

[lrd9999]

@shoprat17 That player from 1980 does sound better than most; I could sense a bit of that "8 track haziness" but just a little. That deck can at least change tracks without the tape in; mine depends on the capstan shaft to complete the change. One cool thing about this format: it forces you to listen to at least 1/4 of each album (+ random blips of the rest); one can get a different perspective that way than by sticking to just the familiar tracks. An interesting piece of history.

[shoprat17]

@lrd9999 ya, it's pretty good seeing i had to make some repairs to it when I first got it, I gotta little unit that I currently don't use that is just amazing.

[shoprat17]

@OlegKostoglatov they did, it was called the playtape, 2 track system longest playing were about the same as an lp and were significantly smaller than 8 tracks, however most unit were portable (however vw did apparently offer a play tape machine in the beetle at one time)

[OlegKostoglatov]

I've heard of those, the Playtape was sort of a technological dead end much like the RCA Sound Tape Cartridge. I didn't think that they were LP length though, the videos I've seen of those had about two songs per program. I think like the RCA Sound Tape cartridges they monopolized the market rather then licensing them out, there were some record formats that died for the same reasons, a limited selection. The Columbia built Chrysler Highway Hi Fi's had the same problem.

[lagerdean1978]

Keep up the good work, I love old technology

[bagnumberthree]

You can play 4-track tapes in an 8-track player, as long as you take the tape out and put it in an 8-track cartridge shell. But you would end up getting two different-sounding versions of Programs 1 and 2. They also made these adapter wheels that could fit into the backside hole of a 4-track cartridge so you can play it on an 8-track player, but not all 8-track players can have a 4-track cartridge fit inside of it.

[shoprat17]

@bagnumberthree actually they did made an adapter to put in the hole in the 4 track cart that included a pinch roller and you could then shove it into an 8 track machine

[MotorolaCalypso]

I like the "Joe 90" theme in the background!

Barry Gray was a brilliant composer.

[audubon5425]

I think that's from around 1968, not '62.

[mkkiani]

@audubon5425 These Cartridge Players were manufactured till 1966 when the 8 track players began to be manufactured. Old stock was sold to clearance houses and continued to be sold to the public at discount prices till around 1967/8. Regards

[JR3059]

Your videos are always so well done. Thank you for sharing, and bringing back memories.

[mkkiani]

@JR3059 Thank you kindly. I have respect for anyone taking the trouble to watch my videos and this makes me want to always improve on them. Like you I have fond memories of more peaceful times and the joys of discovering new entertaining machines, my brother had a bigger interest and was always keen to show off his machines. In the process he taught me much about the electronics and mechanical process. Today I could teach him. But that was much more fun! Best regards always MKK

[TwinMillMC]

Very informative video. Thanks for this. I had no idea that there were ever 4 track cartridges like this. I have lots of 8 track tapes & players but seeing one of these is a 1st for me.

[mkkiani]

@TwinMillMC Many thanks, yes the 4 track cartridge player was short lived but played an important role in the development of the 8 track player. Best regards

[stratocat9999]

I've owned a few of this model and some early Muntz decks too. It was a pretty amazing advance in car stereo. I was familiar with Fideli-Pak carts, having seen them at radio stations ( I was 6 and my grandfather would drag me around with him to various local radio stations), and saw the first Muntz deck when I was 7.

 The carts used to come in 3 sizes. The largest ones could play easily for an hour per track. Fun format, Cheers!

[mkkiani]

@stratocat9999 You were lucky to have a grandfather take you around radio stations at a time when pop culture was just beginning. It was this new music that brought about the music industry. All the best MKK

[wildbilltexas]

Neat Demo. I worked in radio for 17 years and worked with a lot of "Carts" for commerials, station ID's and music. They could jam up or tape could break sometimes but for the most part they were a reliable system.

I always thought the 4-track was a better system than 8-track because it had better cartridges and wider tracks.

[mkkiani]

@wildbilltexas True. 4 track cartridge tape needed to be played twice to hear all the songs (first to hear tr 1 & then to hear tr 2) and tape sometimes did break. It was deemed weak for 8 track which needed to be played four times to hear it completely. So tape back coating was improved to reduce friction. The joint forming the loop was also strengthened with better adhesive. The 8 track is more prone to distortion as the magnetic signal is recorded on a narrower strip of tape. Take care. MKK

[lemonlimestiv]

great video! I had no idea there was a 4 track tape.

[mkkiani]

@lemonlimestiv Thanks. Well now you've seen one with your own eyes, so you better believe it. All the best MKK