@Scorpac Do you know what's even funnier? Anyone who is not a American always talking in "absolutes" trying to do everything they can to knock it down. No different than number 2 teams & below always shooting to knock off number 1. Pathetic. Instead of griping or portraying jealousy or disgust or rationalizing your own existence, run for office in your country & do something for it economically or politically. Also, research & find these actual pilots & find the truth from them.
@nfccentral1985 some things are just said because of jealously and some not, in this case its absolutly rediculous what the pilote did, absolutly unlogic.
@Scorpac I can understand your point of view but if there’s one thing I have witnessed & experienced in my global travels is logic many times doesn’t explain nor clarify everything. I've seen out-takes of stunt pilots do some really crazy things that most people would think "impossible!" One really needs to research & contact the pilots directly i.e. interview them to find the truth. Pilots are usually full of nothing but integrity so it’s best to come straight from the horse’s mouth.
@ benibaka I should also mention, that while the description made by the narrator makes sense to me, it does not match what the animation depicts. From the animation, it looks like the opposite rudders are being used rather than the ones the narrator's is description. I guess that is why it looks funny.
I am a Japanese writer assistant. I was looking for material of the control characteristic of the F-4. I thinks this maneuver is wonderful but there is a doubt in the announcement. The announcer is saying that the pilot stomps the left pedal. A rapid pitch-up and a full top rudder are necessary to put the plane into the post stall area. The F-4 is turning to the left and the bank angle is almost vertical. The pilot have to stomp the right rudder pedal to apply a top rudder.
@benibaka You are correct. I believe that left rudder(bottom) was applied during the left roll and pich down. Then immediately after that, right rudder (top) was applied during the pitch up and roll right in order to throw the tail sharply in the opposite direction. The momentum of the plane would cause the tail to shoot in front of the nose.
I'm just amazed such a thing is possible from the Phantom, and that the pilot could recover so quickly.
The account is true, but the plane did not go end over end, it popped up and departed momentarily allowing Mugs the opportunity to gain the advantage. The altitudes were correct.
@FutureMarine1775USA I am a pilot. I was LCDR McKeown's Weapons Training Officer in VF-161. I also led the flight that downed two MiG-19s five days before Mugs and Mike Rabb got into it with a gaggle of MiG-17s.
...and now, back to the video...does anyone know if this is a real thing or not? Deliberately putting an F-4 into uncontrolled flight at 1500' agl seems a tad bit risky. How did the pilot find out he could do this, and when did he have the time to practice it to perfection? It just seems a little too ballsy to be believed.
@hazeleyes1911a1 Not sure as far as having facts in my hand. The pilot's name is Capt Ronald Eugene McKeown and doing a Google search may uncover something. My best guess would be to say this is a true account since the research done to put a show together like this is done by professionals who usually proof their findings since the makers of the show could be held liable in lawsuits and things like that. I hope this helps and I encourage you to please post what you find. Thanks for commenting.
@Jerrico71 Thanks, I will do some looking. I've never heard of such uncontrolled moves before (the "cobra" is done with a modern "5th Generation" vectored-thrust jet; not comparable to a Phantom), and is somewhat...incredible, if true. Thx again.
@DaveTE15 Wow...boy or girl you really need to conduct factual research. Losing that war had almost all to do with US political leaders’ not listening to commanders or letting them make milestone/game changing decisions. Hence, lessons learned & we continue to learn & advance & why we kick pure ass now! Get with reality dude or chick! Even if it takes years, it will get done! Ask Bin Laden, oh sorry you can’t…he’s dead. American resolve & perseverance is second to none when guarding freedom!
@nfccentral1985 I understand it feels shameful about losing with all your firepower to a puny little midget-country, I understand you, no need to put a mask on.
@DaveTE15 Heh, are you serious with that response? There’s no shame and no mask...never was and never will. Too much known about the reality of the U.S. strength and the wise/brilliant military minds even back then which was kept at bay. Keep showing your quick shoot from the holster rationalizing ignorance without researching and over stepping the typical & predictable human apathy...it just helps truth and facts stand out front. Thanks from all of us!
@nfccentral1985 I know how butthurt you feel right now, about losing to a bunch of farmers and the whole Afghanistan, Iraqi and Bin Laden fiasco...
Please, there is no need to give any excuses. The fact that you registered here only to respond to a comment made by a total stranger on the Internet speaks for itself.
@DaveTE15 Heh, boy oh boy, you are quite the tool aren’t you? Well while I was away these past few days attending meetings that contribute positively to life, you send another predictable & typical shallow response. So signing-on after a sent link in order to correct someone else’s ignorant comment is a crime now huh? You are silly buddy and have a long way to go. I hope you learn one day to fact find and not let apathy and shallow opinion guide you. I will not entertain your silliness anymore.
@purechaos78 You've just commited the most common mistake during an argument. You're attempting a personal attack at your (?) opponent. This does not grant you any points, it jsut confirms my position.
On the side note, noone here is jealous of you. What is there to be jealous about? We are living in the era of America's downfall. US and the Western Europe have signed their death sentance by collapsing the USSR. Now nobody restrains radical muslims and "russian" mafia and CIS jew sindcates.
Judging by your childish behaviour, I should probably not respond to your pathetic junk, otherwise I'll feel sorry for encouraging you to post BS on YouTube instead of letting you do your homework. Don't disappoint your mommy. You might still learn something about the world, kid.
@pilotdave1000 Bottom rudder refers to which direction the ground is top rudder refers to skyward . Bottom rudder refers to direction of the ground . By doing this he is forcing his nose low which will force the tail to go up . By applying down rudder he is forcing the tail down as well . In effect he is broad sliding his plane .Compare it to front wheel drive cars that use the racing maneuver known as drifting . Instead of rear wheels following front they move parallel . Hope that helps .
@pilotdave1000 In a right turn, applying top rudder is accomplished by pushing in the left rudder pedal. IOW, it's always the rudder (pedal) opposite to the direction of turn.
Nice propaganda, why don't US do some demonstrations of their shot down Aircrafts by Vietnamese ?
0.56 to 1.09 <-- that maneurve is hard to believe. Even the most agile modern aircraft like Russki Su-27 can't do that. it's like i'm watching STEALTH the movie =))
@dirtyhlbly: I play simulation game like Lock On, IL-2, Falcon 4:AF myself. And I know F-4 Phantom is a super heavy aircraft, its design simply can't afford to do that maneuver. It's not fly by wire, so recovery after that loop is incredible. by the way, why there's no gunsight videoclip, every aircrafts have one.
@ANLQ84 I play those and others AH2 Microsoft Flight just to name a few . Try it but begin recovery almost as soon as you feel the plane begin to depart . Do it slowly instead of snapping your controls . While you are right the F4 is a heavy plane the tremendous thrust of the J79 seems to offset many of its problems . I think if you mounted them sideways to the air frame you could still get it to fly . BTW don't you fight the flight model kind of generic in il2 . all planes feel the same tome
@dirtyhlbly: hmm. about IL-2, you can feel the different flying different planes. For example. some is good for turn n burn tactics (Zeke, Spitfire, Yak, La ...), some is good for hit n run (P-51, FW-190, Ta-152 ...). You can't apply the way you fight in this plane to that plane, 'cos each has different characteristics. To fight well, you have to suit yourselt to that plane, not vice versa.
Well it's a documentary called "Dogfights: F-4 Phantom" or something along the lines of such... i'm just unsure of the maneuver... look op korean war dogfight...
@Jerrico71 Well it's a documentary called "Dogfights: F-4 Phantom" or something along the lines of such... i'm just unsure of the maneuver... look op korean war dogfight...
@Jerrico71 It is a documentary from a series called Dogfights the link here, shows the segment where this maneuver can be found /watch?v=KLAnQ8g70is&feature=related
Its what's called an approach turn stall but he did it in mid flight . Its what can happen if you are coming into a landing and you want to do a slip to increase your rate of decent to get down to the runway. The proper way to do the slip is "Wing down top rudder". If you do the opposite it causes the plane to depart flight and flip over. If you do this with enough altitude it just causes you to do a violent flip that is easily recoverable. if you do this on approach you're dead!
hahaha, this is so funny :) Guess that typical american citizen would buy this crap... lol
sabbathian 14 hours ago
always funny to see those americans saying how insane they are even if its not possible what they say.
Scorpac 1 week ago
@Scorpac Do you know what's even funnier? Anyone who is not a American always talking in "absolutes" trying to do everything they can to knock it down. No different than number 2 teams & below always shooting to knock off number 1. Pathetic. Instead of griping or portraying jealousy or disgust or rationalizing your own existence, run for office in your country & do something for it economically or politically. Also, research & find these actual pilots & find the truth from them.
nfccentral1985 1 week ago
@nfccentral1985 some things are just said because of jealously and some not, in this case its absolutly rediculous what the pilote did, absolutly unlogic.
Scorpac 1 week ago
@Scorpac I can understand your point of view but if there’s one thing I have witnessed & experienced in my global travels is logic many times doesn’t explain nor clarify everything. I've seen out-takes of stunt pilots do some really crazy things that most people would think "impossible!" One really needs to research & contact the pilots directly i.e. interview them to find the truth. Pilots are usually full of nothing but integrity so it’s best to come straight from the horse’s mouth.
nfccentral1985 1 week ago
@ benibaka I should also mention, that while the description made by the narrator makes sense to me, it does not match what the animation depicts. From the animation, it looks like the opposite rudders are being used rather than the ones the narrator's is description. I guess that is why it looks funny.
Superhrnet 1 week ago
I am a Japanese writer assistant. I was looking for material of the control characteristic of the F-4. I thinks this maneuver is wonderful but there is a doubt in the announcement. The announcer is saying that the pilot stomps the left pedal. A rapid pitch-up and a full top rudder are necessary to put the plane into the post stall area. The F-4 is turning to the left and the bank angle is almost vertical. The pilot have to stomp the right rudder pedal to apply a top rudder.
Is my idea wrong?
benibaka 3 weeks ago
@benibaka You are correct. I believe that left rudder(bottom) was applied during the left roll and pich down. Then immediately after that, right rudder (top) was applied during the pitch up and roll right in order to throw the tail sharply in the opposite direction. The momentum of the plane would cause the tail to shoot in front of the nose.
I'm just amazed such a thing is possible from the Phantom, and that the pilot could recover so quickly.
Superhrnet 1 week ago
The account is true, but the plane did not go end over end, it popped up and departed momentarily allowing Mugs the opportunity to gain the advantage. The altitudes were correct.
How do i know? I was there.
Deacon272 4 months ago
@Deacon272 Were you an RIO or Pilot?
FutureMarine1775USA 3 months ago
Comment removed
Deacon272 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FutureMarine1775USA I am a pilot. I was LCDR McKeown's Weapons Training Officer in VF-161. I also led the flight that downed two MiG-19s five days before Mugs and Mike Rabb got into it with a gaggle of MiG-17s.
Deacon272 3 months ago
Comment removed
Deacon272 4 months ago
...and now, back to the video...does anyone know if this is a real thing or not? Deliberately putting an F-4 into uncontrolled flight at 1500' agl seems a tad bit risky. How did the pilot find out he could do this, and when did he have the time to practice it to perfection? It just seems a little too ballsy to be believed.
hazeleyes1911a1 4 months ago
@hazeleyes1911a1 Not sure as far as having facts in my hand. The pilot's name is Capt Ronald Eugene McKeown and doing a Google search may uncover something. My best guess would be to say this is a true account since the research done to put a show together like this is done by professionals who usually proof their findings since the makers of the show could be held liable in lawsuits and things like that. I hope this helps and I encourage you to please post what you find. Thanks for commenting.
Jerrico71 4 months ago
@Jerrico71 Thanks, I will do some looking. I've never heard of such uncontrolled moves before (the "cobra" is done with a modern "5th Generation" vectored-thrust jet; not comparable to a Phantom), and is somewhat...incredible, if true. Thx again.
hazeleyes1911a1 4 months ago
this maneuver is way better than the cobra.
truonghthe 6 months ago
please let my do this on ace combat assult horision !!!!!
graham1996 6 months ago
HOLY. CRAP. #EPIC
Migix39 8 months ago
This is what makes America the best.
purechaos78 9 months ago
@purechaos78 Is this why you've lost that war?
DaveTE15 5 months ago
@DaveTE15 Wow...boy or girl you really need to conduct factual research. Losing that war had almost all to do with US political leaders’ not listening to commanders or letting them make milestone/game changing decisions. Hence, lessons learned & we continue to learn & advance & why we kick pure ass now! Get with reality dude or chick! Even if it takes years, it will get done! Ask Bin Laden, oh sorry you can’t…he’s dead. American resolve & perseverance is second to none when guarding freedom!
nfccentral1985 5 months ago
@nfccentral1985 I understand it feels shameful about losing with all your firepower to a puny little midget-country, I understand you, no need to put a mask on.
DaveTE15 5 months ago
@DaveTE15 Heh, are you serious with that response? There’s no shame and no mask...never was and never will. Too much known about the reality of the U.S. strength and the wise/brilliant military minds even back then which was kept at bay. Keep showing your quick shoot from the holster rationalizing ignorance without researching and over stepping the typical & predictable human apathy...it just helps truth and facts stand out front. Thanks from all of us!
nfccentral1985 5 months ago
@nfccentral1985 I know how butthurt you feel right now, about losing to a bunch of farmers and the whole Afghanistan, Iraqi and Bin Laden fiasco...
Please, there is no need to give any excuses. The fact that you registered here only to respond to a comment made by a total stranger on the Internet speaks for itself.
DaveTE15 5 months ago
@DaveTE15 Heh, boy oh boy, you are quite the tool aren’t you? Well while I was away these past few days attending meetings that contribute positively to life, you send another predictable & typical shallow response. So signing-on after a sent link in order to correct someone else’s ignorant comment is a crime now huh? You are silly buddy and have a long way to go. I hope you learn one day to fact find and not let apathy and shallow opinion guide you. I will not entertain your silliness anymore.
nfccentral1985 5 months ago
@nfccentral1985 You are obviously too ignorant to see longer than your nose, my little naive friend.
DaveTE15 5 months ago
@DaveTE15 your russian arent you. you just are mad. because thats how people in russia are they are jelous of us. :P
purechaos78 5 months ago
@purechaos78 You've just commited the most common mistake during an argument. You're attempting a personal attack at your (?) opponent. This does not grant you any points, it jsut confirms my position.
On the side note, noone here is jealous of you. What is there to be jealous about? We are living in the era of America's downfall. US and the Western Europe have signed their death sentance by collapsing the USSR. Now nobody restrains radical muslims and "russian" mafia and CIS jew sindcates.
DaveTE15 5 months ago
@DaveTE15 you spelled just wrong. we will allways be better than you you stupid soviet.
purechaos78 5 months ago
@purechaos78 A typo. Your point is?
Judging by your childish behaviour, I should probably not respond to your pathetic junk, otherwise I'll feel sorry for encouraging you to post BS on YouTube instead of letting you do your homework. Don't disappoint your mommy. You might still learn something about the world, kid.
DaveTE15 5 months ago
This is part of the show Dogfights on the History channel
f4ubricks 10 months ago
And these are Navy pilots, right?
masterDevis 11 months ago
Amazing maneuver, and great, that pilot is superior.
gmoneyq 1 year ago
Ahhhh it cut at the good part >_>
Vertigo645 1 year ago
man i hate missles
pilotdave1000 1 year ago
its confusing if you ask me what the hell is bottum rudder and top rudder
pilotdave1000 1 year ago
@pilotdave1000 Bottom rudder refers to which direction the ground is top rudder refers to skyward . Bottom rudder refers to direction of the ground . By doing this he is forcing his nose low which will force the tail to go up . By applying down rudder he is forcing the tail down as well . In effect he is broad sliding his plane .Compare it to front wheel drive cars that use the racing maneuver known as drifting . Instead of rear wheels following front they move parallel . Hope that helps .
dirtyhlbly 1 year ago
@dirtyhlbly thank you now i understand
pilotdave1000 1 year ago
@pilotdave1000 In a right turn, applying top rudder is accomplished by pushing in the left rudder pedal. IOW, it's always the rudder (pedal) opposite to the direction of turn.
Deacon272 3 months ago
Nice propaganda, why don't US do some demonstrations of their shot down Aircrafts by Vietnamese ?
0.56 to 1.09 <-- that maneurve is hard to believe. Even the most agile modern aircraft like Russki Su-27 can't do that. it's like i'm watching STEALTH the movie =))
ANLQ84 1 year ago
@ANLQ84 I was a little unsure myself . I attempted it in a few simulators . Found it very doable . Recovery timing was the tricky part .
dirtyhlbly 1 year ago
@dirtyhlbly: I play simulation game like Lock On, IL-2, Falcon 4:AF myself. And I know F-4 Phantom is a super heavy aircraft, its design simply can't afford to do that maneuver. It's not fly by wire, so recovery after that loop is incredible. by the way, why there's no gunsight videoclip, every aircrafts have one.
ANLQ84 1 year ago
@ANLQ84 I play those and others AH2 Microsoft Flight just to name a few . Try it but begin recovery almost as soon as you feel the plane begin to depart . Do it slowly instead of snapping your controls . While you are right the F4 is a heavy plane the tremendous thrust of the J79 seems to offset many of its problems . I think if you mounted them sideways to the air frame you could still get it to fly . BTW don't you fight the flight model kind of generic in il2 . all planes feel the same tome
dirtyhlbly 1 year ago
@dirtyhlbly: hmm. about IL-2, you can feel the different flying different planes. For example. some is good for turn n burn tactics (Zeke, Spitfire, Yak, La ...), some is good for hit n run (P-51, FW-190, Ta-152 ...). You can't apply the way you fight in this plane to that plane, 'cos each has different characteristics. To fight well, you have to suit yourselt to that plane, not vice versa.
ANLQ84 1 year ago
@ANLQ84 There were no gunsight cameras in use in Navy Vietnam-Era F-4s, tmk.
Deacon272 3 months ago
Well it's a documentary called "Dogfights: F-4 Phantom" or something along the lines of such... i'm just unsure of the maneuver... look op korean war dogfight...
brownyread 1 year ago
@brownyread vietnam not korea rofl
Vertigo645 1 year ago
ahhh poor vietnamese pilot, he was so stiff he didn't know what to do... he probably gave up after that one lol what is this called?
brownyread 1 year ago
I received this in an email and thought it was awesome. May be a training vid or documentary...not sure.
Jerrico71 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Jerrico71 Well it's a documentary called "Dogfights: F-4 Phantom" or something along the lines of such... i'm just unsure of the maneuver... look op korean war dogfight...
brownyread 1 year ago
@Jerrico71 its atully a show called "dogfights" u should look it up abovr on the search sighn
satrupa21 1 year ago
@Jerrico71 It is a documentary from a series called Dogfights the link here, shows the segment where this maneuver can be found /watch?v=KLAnQ8g70is&feature=related
Dolphin8097 4 months ago
@brownyread its from the history channel serie dogfights
DreamAboutSpace 1 year ago
@brownyread It's a show on History Channel Called Dogfights.
nickrd10bk 1 year ago
@brownyread
Its what's called an approach turn stall but he did it in mid flight . Its what can happen if you are coming into a landing and you want to do a slip to increase your rate of decent to get down to the runway. The proper way to do the slip is "Wing down top rudder". If you do the opposite it causes the plane to depart flight and flip over. If you do this with enough altitude it just causes you to do a violent flip that is easily recoverable. if you do this on approach you're dead!
japanupe1911 1 year ago
Comment removed
japanupe1911 1 year ago
@brownyread
He also put back stick in it that way you tumble backwards not forwards. It also allowed him to depart at a higher airspeed.
japanupe1911 1 year ago
Awesome move, the guy on the MIG probably took a dump in his pants after seeing that heavy ass F4 get behind him.
alex30riv 2 years ago
I watched that episode that wasa cool move. I like this show. I have seasons 1 and 2 on DVD.
BOHghostman 2 years ago
nice!!!!
TheDeathsapprentice 2 years ago
sick
fearmeyo 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
wasnt that maneuver was used in top gun? awesome!
ottocars 2 years ago
nope
DreamAboutSpace 2 years ago 2