Vijay Iyer Quartet & Rudresh Mahanthappa - Aftermath - Bridgestone Music Festival - 2008

[nsank72]

I love this piece. It sounds so out there and different, but every chord is diatonic.

[lampshade429]

@dojomania Shut up. Who are you to decide what is and what is not jazz?

[dojomania]

@lampshade429 how about this, then ... I'll stop saying this isn't jazz, and YOU will stop saying it IS.

[lampshade429]

@dojomania I don't remember saying that this was jazz, interesting that you thought that though. Your most ignorant comment, however, was saying that this elite musician had no talent. That is just plain stupid.

[dojomania]

@lampshade429 check out caponsacchi's comments, on "Vijay Iyer Trio, Galang (riot version )"..on page 2 of the comments..pretty much sums it up about Iyer's talent.

[lampshade429]

@dojomania I honestly have no clue where he gets his justification for saying that Vijay lacks touch and passion. He may not be the most technically astute player, but his passion really comes through his music. These comments were made by a jazz purist who hates change. His entire argument compares Vijay to the Be-Bop greats. This isn't Be-Bop. This music won't swing, it's not meant to. That being said, why are you trying to qualify his talent?

[dojomania]

@lampshade429 in his comments,caponsacchi also showed an admiration for Chick, Hiromi, and Bill Evans, who are not from the bop period. they may be bop-influenced, but what great player isn't ? I hear a lot of bop in Iyer's work. It's not fair to say "jazz purist"..more accurate would be "careful ,discriminating and educated jazz listener"..can you point out particular lick or run in this solo that would show Iyer's greatness? or are we just going to bash my comments ?

[lampshade429]

@dojomania I am "bashing" your original comment because it showed a remarkable close-mindedness that has no place in true music appreciation. In regards to a particular "lick" demonstrating his "greatness" you should to listen to the work as a whole to see his greatness.  He makes harmonic waves that compliment Rudresh's playing quite well. To break down this music into segments of licks would be to betray the nature of the music itself.

[dojomania]

@lampshade429 in other words, you don't know theory , or have never been to the "woodshed". that's ok, but therefore, you really can't prove that he has talent. all you can say is that you appreciate his music. Any "great" solo should be able to be transcribed,and harmonicall and rhythmically analyzed. None of this "you should appreciate it as a whole" mumbo jumbo..you're avoiding the facts.My comment might have chafed some people, but it is grounded in truth.

[lampshade429]

@dojomania No, I just choose to appreciate this as music and not as a bunch of notes. You could transcribe this if you wanted to. Why couldn't you harmonically and rhythmically analyze this. I never said you couldn't do that, I just said that it is not the best way to listen to music. I will concede that he is not a great quartet player, but when listening to his trio's recordings his genius is undeniable.

[dojomania]

@lampshade429 well, I respect your ability to listen to it as a whole. However, please don't denigrate those who "analyze" the notes..many of them are jazz musicians, Miles for instance went to Juilliard, Stan Getz went to Manhattan school of music, etc..a lot of musicians have made the investment of learning and practicing Jazz theory, and that includes "pulling " the solo off the record, and analyzing the notes..since you haven't done this, you don't appreciate how hard it is to actually do.

[lampshade429]

@dojomania I never denigrated anyone who analyzes the music. I am a percussionist and I have transcribed many solos from the masters. I appreciate the effort that goes into that act (my first took a while). I never made the contention that transcribing was an easy task. However, there is a time and a place for transcription and this is not it. If you can figure out how to transcribe the power and raw emotion that is behind his playing then go for it, otherwise appreciate it for what it is.

[dojomania]

@dojomania interesting point you made about there being a time and place for transcription.although I enjoy the emotional aspects of music, I find it difficult to completely block out the theoretical underpinnings. As a musician,don't you find yourself admiring the technical aspects?in the past you have made comments about syncopation.It is a philosophical struggle between understanding something on the gut level and something from the technical perspective.

[lampshade429]

@dojomaniaI didn't make any claims about syncopation. Of course I admire the technicality of the music. It is something that I actually stuggled with, not looking beyond techincality that is, but I have recently started to look at music like this for what it is. And once I came to that place in my musical life I began enjoying music significantly more. However, in regards to your original comment one must have a certain talent level to achieve this level of emotionality. Would you agree?

[dojomania]

@lampshade429 sorry about that, i replied to myself ! It's very zen, to learn your craft before you can forget it all and BE your craft..I'm not a full time musician as you, so I envy you for that. It's therefore true to need training in the technical aspects to achieve that emotionality.However, emotion is obviously not easily defined so your syllogism regarding him being talented because he can emote is based on subjectivity. However, your argument is persuasive, and I'll listen to him again.

[r3ck0rd]

@dojomania and Chick Corea also shew admiration of Vijay Iyer. He once invited Vijay Iyer and Marcus Gilmore to one of his Freedom Band concert (where Gilmore's grandfather, Roy Haynes played as the drummer). Musicians respect others' music, if you don't like them, then shut up, smart-ass.

[dojomania]

this isn't jazz...this guy's got no talent.

[spacecops1]

@dojomania no talent, really?

[dojomania]

@spacecops1 yup. do you have proof of it?

[spacecops1]

@dojomania This guys got a killer feel in odd meters and plays some very beautiful and melodic lines. Listen to his phrasing and the way everyone jumps on it. I would be interested in hearing why you do not think he is talented.

[dojomania]

@spacecops1 ..please define "killer feel" ...is that like "killer chops" ? this entire number doesn't swing. His phrasing is simplistic. in the entire solo, the tonal center doesn't change. For an example of a solo with a wandering tonal center used brilliantly, listen to Herbie Hancock's "Triangle" it's on youtube. lastly, this solo is too repetitive, and consists of prearranged licks. And his comping just plain sucks, mostly arpeggios, which effectively ignores concepts like syncopation

[spacecops1]

@dojomaniaThis composition is heavily syncopated, with accents on greater subdivisions than just eighth notes, the arpeggios are used to add color and compliment the melody; which is all that comping is, accompanying the lead voice. Herbie was a modal guy as well, Maiden Voyage only has one tonal center. These characteristics do not define talent. You have only listed personal preferences, not objective material that disproves this mans talent.

[dojomania]

@spacecops1 That however doesn't mean talent. That is an ability to play different rhythms.. Tons of pianists who aren't well known can do that, including some 8 year olds from Manhattan School of Music.This is not stuff that would set him apart.Perhaps this is a semantic discussion, regarding talent.Let's say, it's not a DISTINguishing talent.How could you say that maiden voyage has only one tonal center?The entire solo is based on moving up and down a half step! go back to the charts.wow.

[spacecops1]

@dojomania Its been a while since Ive heard that tune, my mistake. Most definitely two tonal centers a half step apart. The principal is still the same, though.

[dojomania]

@spacecops1 thank you.I like the idea of moving up and down a half step, Miles started that with So What.The chord a half step up can be considered an altered variant of the root,so A-7 to Bb-7 could be thought of as A-7 to Aaug7.Similarly,playing a Bb melodic minor scale has an A natural in it that is reflected in the A-7.In any case,I see your point,and I respect your understanding of theory.

[r3ck0rd]

@dojomania how do you describe steve gadd then?

[dojomania]

@spacecops1 and speaking of which, have you heard Herbie's tune Triangle ? I feel that there are definitely similarities to Vijay's solo, and idea of playing "outside" against the one bass figure with only one tonal center.

[spacecops1]

@dojomania Haven't heard that one yet, I'll check it out.

[dojomania]

@spacecops1 I think you'll really like it , i know i do. tons of tonal centers in it ! it's on YT, just type i " Herbie Hancock, Triangle "

[dilanka1977]

grandissimi vjay e rudresh

[VonZamla]

Excellent!

[carlosminella]

Increible!

[schmidmix]

can't stop playing it ...

[boornos]

blazremic, exactly - the last minute is the bomb.

[Danzoc]

eu tava lá, chorei!

[blazremic]

absolutely love it! i get goose bumps when bass joins the melody at the end

[paulpenelly]

epic