Mr Rashid uses the good-old religious brow-beating debating style. He poses a question and when Prof Myers tries to respond he instantly turns up the volume, speaks very quickly, raises his hand and answers his own question. Its just tooo stupid.
Isn't it also possible that Muhammed could have come up with the idea of mingled seminal fluid just by observation and the best information around at the time, without necessarily learning of greek embryology?
@Klingschor I wonder what Hamza would say to that. They are so strenuously denying that Muhammed could have had contact with anyone (which is a pretty big ask, as you showed) who could have known about greek embryology. But this would push their argument back even further, because they would then have to argue that he could've even have had common knowledge. That oughta be fun.
@synsei1 I am sorry did you read the greek science and learned Quran? Yep, I thought so....Greek science is full of errors and it does not resemble what is said in Quran at all, it is just your stupid claim which says it does.. LMAO
@PlrinPuruPuru Watch the video again, all the evidences and sources are here. The quran plagiarizes ancient greece and Galien's teachings, that were very popular at this time, WITH THE SAME MISTAKES. Have you ever learned anything about actual modern embryology?... Thought so. That's where I started from, not with writings that totally ignore sperms, ovocytes, egg fertilization, nidification, gastrulation, etc...
@synsei1 LMAO.... you are a gullible guy if you think that... HAHAHHAHA I have studied modern embryology, and greek and galen teachings and there is nothing similar to greek and galen teachings and the modern embryological findings are in perfect harmony with Quran. I think you need to go to college to learn this shit and come back after doing expert analysis on this rather from reading crap from fabricating and twisted liars.
@PlrinPuruPuru I've read all the documents relevant with this topic. I've first heard of the "scientific miracles in the quran" in a youtube video where a proponent of this BS who quoted the quran verses and I immediatly saw it didn't match with what we know, also it has nothing miraculous, these findings are all possible by simple misinterpreted observation. Embryology just happened to be a domain I was familiar with.
You'd get a F- in medical school with your verses.
@synsei1 LMAO you are going to take one verse in a book of signs to medical school? LMAO I think I would even give you F- - LMAO.... Quran is not for scientific findings, it is to see how things we would not know unless we have the scientific knowledge can correctly and comprehensive enough so that we could know when we know the science. God does not want you to stop studying the universe, He wants to study the universe and come to know Him. LMAO
@PlrinPuruPuru BTW, you may like to fix your English up a bit more. Calling me an idiot and dumb when your own grammar and sentence structure is incoherent only makes you expose as the 'real idiot' or the 'real dumb' person.
So far, you've shown you could have very little respectful discussion with someone.
You also struggle to make coherent sentences. Work on that first and then maybe you could come back and call me stupid. Before then, be a bit more humble kid.
@Ganstaz003 hahahaha, wow, you must be one the most stupid person I have known. And not to mention your illogical comments and retarded claim about my English.
Your Moby dick book, you made things out of context in illogical manner. While Quran was used in a logical pattern. What is logical? LMAO yes I bet you wont know.
@Ganstaz003 Lol early tafsir? do you know what it is? LMAO
Its not vague...its vague to a dumb guy like you...looks like 100% of the Muslims understand it..and the book is for Muslims so I dont see that there is a problem there.
And for you, you need to check with the criteria for having a seal on your heart. The criteria can be found all over the Quran...search for reasons why you would be like a deaf, blind and dumb person and get rid of those and read Quran,
@synsei1 And explain modern embryology in one sentence without scientific words (scientific words are not for all humans ) I dare you, you wont be able to do better than Quran...Your sentence would not make sense to people and would not be able to imagine what it looks like and would have much problem. LMAO
@PlrinPuruPuru "explain modern embryology in one sentence without scientific words (scientific words are not for all humans ) I dare you,"
It's like challenging me to build a car in one hour with no tools and no raw material (these are not affordable for all). You're making yourdelf an embarrassment. The "embryolgy verses" are factually wrong, there is no science worth the name in the quran, get over it, and don't come back to me until you have something intelligent to say .
@synsei1 It is factually correct. And the verse was revealed just when someone came asked Muhammad pbuh. It took him no more than a minute...LMAO...I bet you cant do it even after a day. Explain the process in one sentence without scientific words, which even the most stupid people can know and imagine it.
You made so many mistakes! I could have a field day pointing out your mistakes that as someone who poses as a smartguy should have known. Please take this video down, it's very sad. You have shown the lack of knowledge you have on the matter.
@wilfredthebold do you know embryology? oh well...hahhahahhahaa...go learn about the fetus in the microscopic level which comes first, lol..so much ignorance...uneducated creeps...Learn embryology expertly and you will know something or just find out the studies...LOL Quran does not state that the fetus become a complete baby skeleton and then some big flying muscles come and wrap it around the completely formed baby skeleton..LOL this is your wishful thinking and desperateness.
@wilfredthebold D. The lahm stage. Although precursor cells (myoblasts, or primitive muscle cells) are present adjacent to developing bone ( differentiation into skeletal muscle attachments occur after the ossification process in the shaft and ends of the bones has begun. A major developmental landmark during the eighth week is the lahm stage, which describes the myogenesis (muscle formation) period, and which marks CONT>
@wilfredthebold the development of definitive muscles in the trunk and limbs and the beginning of movement. The muscles take their position AROUND the BONES ("clothing the bones") LOL And also >since muscle precursor cells begin their development into muscle as soon as the bone is formed and the muscles can become attached. (Professor Keith)
@PlrinPuruPuru hey.. is this the same Keith Moore of the "paid for" apologetics club? You know the one paid by King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia to write religious bullshit.. then be scolded by Journal Accountability in Research for "The impact of scientific misinformation on other fields: philosophy, theology, biomedical ethics and public policy" that his "Saudi Embryology" paper contained? Naw, you would not be so stupid as to quote him...
@daNDayati I dont know about your accusations against him but he is the one who got Henry Gray/Elsevier Distinguished Educator Award in 2007 and Honored Member Award (in 1994) by American Association of Clinical Anatomists. Anyone who is an activist in a particular view is NOT objective. PZ Myers is an atheist activists, I believe there is more reason that he is paid because why else would an atheist attack someone's personal view about his scientific finding and relating it to Quran.
@daNDayati He did not based his scientific findings on Quran but he related the scientific details he found out with Quran and he found out that it matches and he said no one could have known it, but it coincides... And about the people who try to attack his credibility by claiming he did not become Muslim yet he said that. Many knew Christ or other prophets were indeed prophets yet why they deny them?
@PlrinPuruPuru please don't bring in a jesus into this argument.. any claim of supernatural has to be considered bogus until proven otherwise.. and no supernatural argument has been proven to date.
@daNDayati And lets assume he is biased...Does the scientific findings have error? Does the Quran do not say what it says? Why is it wrong or biased? What is the wrong point or evidence in there?
@PlrinPuruPuru you have to defend the quran because it is the foundation of your religious paradigm.. you believe in that quran is the perfect word of your deity.. and for the rest of us it is nonsense.. Nonsense to even bring it to the table for a serious discussion.. Keith Moore violated a basic tenant of science and research.. he took a religious text, mixed it with a less than accurate account of embryonic development and said .. it must have been a god... unethical.. period.
@daNDayati You are the most narrow minded person in the whole face of earth...actually all of the so claimed anti-theists in actuality but claims to be atheists are ignorant close minded guys like you..they think they view is the majority..but more than 70% of the world is theists. and they think their view is unchallengeable and no matter how outrageous it is. I am not bringing Christ here, I am stating even if you see a ghost, there would be people who rather not believe in it.
@PlrinPuruPuru If knowledge were a popularity contest than your claim might be valid (argumentum ad populum.. excuse my latin)... cognitive neuroscience best answers religious delusions.. not only 70% but for centuries people believe in gods, spirits, demons and the like.. that was a real problem. now it is better understood..there are several good theories on by people make up and believe in gods.. why even pigeons are superstitious (re: BF Skinner)
@daNDayati I remember a story from one of the Yusuf Estes videos which would make you picture what I am talking about..Anyway here is the summary...an old guy comes and builds a tent on a railway track..and some guy saw this and told to take the tent somewhere because this is a railway track. The old man tells what? Where is your proof. the guys says look at the track lines, it is proof that a train exists. CONT>
@daNDayati Old guys says no its just something there naturally. Then when the guy hears the sound of the train he tells him see, hear for yourself, its the sound of the train..he says no, its just something else.. and so on (this is not accurate to the real story) but you get the picture...
@daNDayati And I am sorry .....I have to do what? No I dont have to defend it at ALL... Why? Because I am sure it is the word of God. If every human being is against me on this one, I would defend it because my belief in Quran as the word of God is not based on what other people think of it. I care less about where you end up in the hereafter, but I would be happy if someone accepts Islam but doesn't mean I care about a defiantly disobedient rebellious insincere dishonest person think and say.
@PlrinPuruPuru you don't have to rationalize the unfounded.. btw; Yusuf Estes is a good story teller and a shameless apologists.. (his account of evolution was laughable , not science and deceitful). I have seen your behavior (cognitive dissonance) a lot in muslins.. even when confronted with evidence contrary to the claim that the quran is without error.. they still believe it is the word of god..
@daNDayati hahaha we see right through your so called contrary evidence.. it is nothing but misrepresentation of information or outright clear lies. so forgive me if I dont believe in your lies and misinformation. Quran is the word of god so how can you provide contrary evidence? No, you cant, and never will be able to. I know this. But I listen to you giving you some comfort of your meaningless effort to prove something is wrong when it is not.
@PlrinPuruPuru is that why muslims contribute so poorly in science and progress?.. because they can't deal with evidence to the contrary? Rationalization is the only escape from cognitive dissonance... your (collective) behavior is classic..you "see right through" evidence.. is a psychological reaction.You are comfortable with some science but when it refutes your beliefs you can't/don't see it. . My effort is hardly meaningless. It is the quest of all who a useful understanding of our world..
@wilfredthebold Look at the verse of Quran 23:14 - It uses thumma - for then in the sense to say stages but when it comes to forming of bones and it getting clothed by muscles it use fa - for then to mean that it is not like thumma (then) but fa (then) - clearly making the distinction...LOL such people who are ignorant of both arabic and embryology can claim this as a false one..LOL I just laugh everytime I hear these ignorant folks talking like this
@PlrinPuruPuru hey (again) did you know that Hamza Tzortzis is writing a paper "re-interpreting" that part of your koran.. it should be available now... (He did it in response to the drubbing he got from PZ Myers.. (a real embryologist)..
@PlrinPuruPuru You can laugh all you want.. You have to "interpret" words of the supreme designer..who left it open for multiple interpretations? Your deity could have left diagrams or other proofs..or numbered stages..even the greek (mortal) philosophers left diagrams. Your deity was dealing with humans after all. (by the way is your lol out of nervousness?)..
@PlrinPuruPuru ''LOL such people who are ignorant of both arabic and embryology can claim this as a false one''.
Well accept my challenge and find a new scientific information from the Qur'an which has not been discovered yet. Then we'll see who the real ignorant person is.
>Bring one sura like it
Bring one undiscovered scientific fact from the Qur'an instead to claim it as miracle. The ridiculous challenge from the Qur'an has been debunked by Klingschor. Check it out 'The inimitable Quran'.
@Ganstaz003 lol...HAHAHAHAHAH I see what kind of idiot you are....Quran is a book of signs, mercy and warnings.. when people find a scientific fact and see that Quran has the same scientific fact, it is a sign that Quran is from GOD Almighty because no one could have known it before and although it was written nobody knew about it until we were meant to see it.
@Ganstaz003 Prove to me why Quran is wrong about how Isreal becoming a nation from many countries. Prove to me that sperm is not the one which decide the sex of the baby. Then we can talk about being objective. You are the most subjective idiot here. whatever Quran clearly says you add your own interpretation to it or explanation to it...How is that objective? You are the biggest idiot here.
@PlrinPuruPuru "You are the most subjective idiot here".
You haven't demonstrated that to any extent. Either do so or retract the statement. Making wild claims is just feckless.
"Prove to me that sperm is not the one which decide the sex of the baby"".
Let me prove how the Qur'an is wrong. The Qur'an says the bones come first, and then the flesh, and then the muscle in embryology. This is wrong. They form simultaneously.
@Ganstaz003 go see my video about how you are wrong about Quran and how I tell you don't know shit about Arabic language. Someone who cant speak Arabic yet expert in Quran? No, Quran in its original form is in Arabic, the translation to English is not 100% accurate and never has any translation been accurate which is why we see Bible is full of errors.
@PlrinPuruPuru "go see my video about how you are wrong about Quran and how I tell you don't know shit about Arabic language. Someone who cant speak Arabic yet expert in Quran"?
For the record, I was a Muslim until this year. I also memorized the whole Qur'an at one point so I don't know what you are on about.
The Qur'an has no science at all, all the signs are illogical and there is nothing credible to take from the Qur'an
If there is a science, I challenge you to discover one from Qur'an.
@Ganstaz003 Memorizing Quran wont do ANY good at all in this world, but knowing what its says does. I doubt you know Arabic, and also its funny how suddenly people become ex-Muslims and know Quran and know Islam completely when they are completely in a corner...LMAO.... LOL discover science from Quran? LOL LOL Quran does not say it is a science book so look for science in there. It says it is a book of ayats, we find ayats in it, LMAO..some Muslim you are to not know this .LMAO
@PlrinPuruPuru ''Quran does not say it is a science book''
Your right. Then don't take verses from the Qur'an and claim it as 'compatible' with science
Either the Qur'an is a scientific book where science is found before it's discovery. Or it is not science at all. In this case, don't claim the Qur'an contains science after the discovery is made. If you want to do that, do it before the discovery.
@Ganstaz003 HAHAHAH, no you got it wrong. I take passages and facts from science and say it is compatable with what is mentioned in Quran, therefore Quran not only proven its excellence in quality and other features but presents signs even now and will continue to do that in future. If there are undeniable science you would not believe so there is nothing useful to you, because the moment you see undeniable science your excuse will be the ancient civilization knew this and that. LMAO
@PlrinPuruPuru "I take passages and facts from science and say it is compatable with what is mentioned in Quran"
This is done straight after scientist's work so hard for their discovery. As I said, getting vague verses to fit in with reality could be done with any book.
watch?v=ojVn4Rgl8E8
Either find science before it's discovery, or conclude there is no science in the Qur'an.
This same thing was done by the Hindu's. after the discovery, they claim it was all along in their scripture also.
@Ganstaz003 I dont know how someone can be this thick to not understand the difference between signs and science. Signs can include SCIENTIFIC facts being coherent with facts in something. LOL.... If it is a science book, it would only have science and cannot have other things like stories of prophets, this would confuse people and not to mention it is retarded to talk about things which we cant know until later in a science book. Quran is superior to than a mere science book.
@PlrinPuruPuru "not understand the difference between signs and science".
I understand the difference. The 'signs' you are referring to is no way proof to validate you holy book. I see signs everyday without the need of the Qur'an.
"Quran is superior to than a mere science book".
Matter of opinion. Something you can never prove non - fallaciously.
"Signs can include SCIENTIFIC facts being coherent with facts in something".
Excuse for the inability to discover science from the Qur'an.
@Ganstaz003 LMAO at your video....the evidence has logical base for the number miracle but you are forcing your book without space and other things in an illogical order or pattern to create something similar. LMAO...this is why people who dont have a brain to recognize patterns and apply number miracles should refrain from it, rather should stick to simple clear cut ones. LMAO
@Ganstaz003 LMAO same logic? no it is called retard logic you used. The people who used numbering system used a system based on logic...yours is just take away the space - no reason just taking the spaces away.. LMAO
@PlrinPuruPuru "yours is just take away the space - no reason just taking the spaces away"
And 'yours' does not contain any specific details at all. Specific > Ambiguous.
Moby Dick contains specific details such as names and how things occurred which Qur'an doesn't.
If you honestly ask me to take the Qur'an as a miracle due to the vague science verses and future predictive details, I will also have to consider Moby Dick a miracle in order to avoid double standards and intellectual dishonesty.
@Ganstaz003 lol, it is not science verses. you crazy shit. you want to find words like big bang, embryo, fetus to be found in Quran? Then, you have to explain what it is, and this would increase another 2 - 3 pages and would confuse the illiterate people and people who have no real education, Quran is for ALL people. Even an uneducated person will know when we say leech like, and chewed gum to describe the process while your science words cant do that.
@Ganstaz003 vagueness? LMAO I think the vagueness is created by humans not Quran. You should seriously consider going for an Arabic class to find out what I am talking about. Arabic language is precise and any translation of it would make it unsuitable for accuracy. Go enroll in Arabic language and become an expert and you would see why the Quran is clear and it is that humans who make mistake in taking the meaning which is not meant for the context. CONT>
@Ganstaz003 And how clear can you get than telling the fetus will be like of a leech and congealed blood cot and other stuff..even a baby can understand them perfectly and see thats what is being observed in reality. When you see a leech you can imagine how a fetus is without a need to use advanced technology. This is a miracle of a miracle. Nobody can describe the development of fetus it for all ages, for all people like this and with only a few verses. CONT>
@Ganstaz003 Thats outright impossible for a human being. Quran is for all people but like all ignorant people you have a stupid view which is complete contrary to what Quran says. Its mumbo jumbo to you because you are frankly indoctrined with bull crap and you are too stubborn and stupid to see that. It is clear for a person who is looking at Quran without your broken glass.
@Ganstaz003 Honestly have you ever read Quran? And from my talks you seem to have a very simple mind frame that is not be gullible, but in doing that you become gullible person who cannot think objectively and give thought to what is in Quran. The signs? There are millions, but it would not aid you but more disbelief because your mind frame is set on disbelief and is far from finding truth but worried about not being what society call a 'gullible fool' or your definition of what is sensible.
@Ganstaz003 Quran is not a science book, it is a book of signs, guidance, mercy and warning. If all the warnigns and signs are to be completely known like science text book, how can there be any signs for future generations? Only people who give thought to the signs are clear on it. We Muslims take the benefit of these signs while you become more disbelievers...
And surely, We have explained [Our Promises, Warnings and (set forth many) examples] in this Quran that they (the disbelievers) may take heed, but it increases them in naught save aversion. 17:41
So, it does not come to as a surprise when you increase in aversion and increase your excuses when a sign comes to you.
@PlrinPuruPuru I feel sorry for you that you have to look down at anyone who is not a Muslim as someone inferior.
Islam unfortunately teaches you to be arrogant with whoever that goes against your beliefs.
Your arrogance is displayed when you have the notion that 'only you are right. Only your are destined for heaven. Only you know the truth. Everyone else who disagrees with you are the opposite and destined for hell'.
This is what Islam teaches, to look at disbelievers inhumanely.
@Ganstaz003 Arrogance? No, hardly...I do not claim 'I am not gullible enough to believe in Quran' and stuff, this shows your arrogance and mindset about Quran, you are not worried about finding the truth, you are worried about not being gullible - but to do that you need to deny everything in Quran - so automatically in order to not be gullible your mind denies everything including the truth and abundant clear signs.
@Ganstaz003 What about knowing Israel will come from a group of nations? And what about knowing the Pharaoh would be made a sign and then we discover his body is preserved naturally. What about the natural barrier in the sea, what about the all other science in it which we came to know after we discovered science? Go and give an article about big bang theory to cave men and ask them to find science in it, I bet they wont. This is an illogical argument you created to deny the truth.
@PlrinPuruPuru "Go and give an article about big bang theory to cave men and ask them to find science in it, I bet they wont. This is an illogical argument you created to deny the truth".
One day after the science discovery, Muslim find vague verses to claim it was all along in the Qur'an = logical?
Many years of trying to find science from the Qur'an before it's discovery but failing = illogical?
No, you and the Muslim's like you are illogical. Find science before discovery or shut up!
@Ganstaz003 If Quran wrote all the science down without summarizing it PERFECTLY we would be carrying the book in a crane.
Say, "If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement." 18:109
You shut up, you are a stupid clown who thinks cave men can know anything from your encyclopedias. It is humans fault we cant find it before, we are limited beings.
@PlrinPuruPuru I don't need to shut up. I've got every rights to ask you to discover science from your holy book as you like to retrofit science after the discovery is made.
Your utter inability does not amuse me. Go ahead and make stupid excuses such as 'the Qur'an is a book of science' or 'Qur'an is not a science book'.
BTW, do you believe in cavemen AKA Neanderthal? Interestingly, they contradict the Qur'an.
@Ganstaz003 You tell me to find science in Quran while it is not a science book.
But I am telling you to give a some Ethiopian who never knew any science, one of your science book and tell him to discover science from it. I bet that guy would say what gibberish is this, there is nothing here that make sense and definitely no science. LMAO
This proves when the person does not know something it is impossible for him to know science even in a science book.
@Ganstaz003 I will try to rebut with as much as summarized rebuttals.
There is a fallacy that makes you fail to realize that thoughts, opinions & guesses regarding scientific verses are NOT valid proof against Islam.
Earth is flat – No, this is not found in Islam, but you can find it in Christianity.
The early scholars based their tafsir or explanation on their opinions, thoughts and guesses from whatever the information they can get when they had NO scientific CONT>
@Ganstaz003 knowledge regarding the matter. But nowhere does it become a flat earth by looking at Quran, it only does with an incorrect interpretation. This itself is a wrong they have created because they lack the proper knowledge to make a qualified interpretation of the Quran verse, and no way affects the Quran verses. (I will give the detailed yet summarized rebuttal to your inbox)
@Ganstaz003 2. Moon has its own light – No, this is not found in Islam either. Maybe you should stop presuming stuff about Islam and actually go learn Islam from MUSLIMS, then you won’t have this problem of giving arguments which are not found in Islam. (I am sure you can pop this one in one of your fallacies LMAO)
"He created the night with its darkness and the day with its light, and they alternate without ceasing. CONT>
@Ganstaz003 And He created the sun with its shining light, and the moon with its reflected light. and He allotted their stages and gave them separate orbits in the heavens." - this is found in Tafsir (interpretation of) Ibn Kahir, a prominent and leading Muslim scholar in the 13th century.
So why would Ibn Kathir come up with this statement, many centuries before man discovered that the earth was spherical and that the moon does indeed reflect the sun's light? CONT>
@Plriu "many centuries before man discovered that the earth was sperical"
A sperical model of the earth was established as far back as 3rd century BC. The muslims started learning about Hellenic science starting in the 8th century.
"reflected light"
Again, already known. Aristotle had done detailed studies on lunar eclipses etc.
Secondly, It doesn't say that in the arabic. Can you quote the arabic please ?
PS- why didnt you quote Ibn Kathir saying the sun is on a chariot
@captaindisguise LMAO why dont you quote your big ass comments too while you are at it?
Even if the whole world speaks of things even in this day and age, anything that does not match with Quran is disregarded, so how can a scholar accept and suggest it in a TAFSIR? LMAO
إستنار به (istanaara bihi): إستمدّ شعاعة (istamadda shu'aaa'uh) was supplied by its light.
انار المكان (anaara al-makaan): وضع فيه النور (wada'aa feehi al-noor) Put light into it, or reflected light off of it.
نوّرتِ الشجرو انارت ايضاً (nawwarat al-shajarah wa anaarat aydan): اخرجت نورها (akhrajat nooraha) The plant reflected the light off of itself, or it showed the light off of itself. CONT>
@captaindisguise and the moon is the noor نورا to that diyaa' ضياء of the sun!
(diyaa'a): الضوء, ما اضاء لك (al-dawa', ma adaa'a laka) the light, and what it originated from light to you.
• The following poem proves that ضياء (diyaa'a) refers to the original light:
اضاءَتْ لنا النارُ وجهاً اغرَّ, مُلتبِساً, بالفُؤادِ, إلتِباسا The fire has originated (اضاءَتْ is derived from ضياء ) for us the light of a mighty glow, that CONT>
@captaindisguise will always be liked by the heart (or something like that).
Notice here that the fire is the originator and the source of the light. And notice how NOOR or a derivative of it wasn't used.
ء (istadaa'): إستمدّ نورهُ (istamadda noorahu) the original light stretched its NOOR forth.
تضوَّأ (tadawwa'a): قام فى ظلمةٍ ليرى بِضَوْءِ النار اهلها he got up during the darkness of the night to see from the light of the fire, the people in the place.
@captaindisguise • Notice again how the fire in this sentence is the originator and the source of the light. And notice how NOOR or a derivative of it wasn't used.
ضوء (dawa'): to gleam, radiate, to illumine, illuminate, to shed light, cast light.
Verse 024:035 - The oil is about to يضيئ (yudee'o) without being kindled by fire. Notice how the OIL, in the Parable, is the SOURCE OF LIGHT, and the Arabic word yudee'o يضيئ is derived from
@Plrin My 1 comment gets 10 from yours. Great so you know how to copy/paste from the moron Osama Abdallah's website
Funny, how lane's lexicon states muneer means giving light! Oh well!
How about answering the simple question where did your Prophet MoronHamed explicitly state that the moon doesn't have it light! Simply reinterpreting a single word will only fly with deluded apes like you!
"is the moon mentioned as siraaj" - 33:46 describes siraj as muneer...Now what ?? yeah shut up kiddo
PS - you do realize that Nur is one of your Imaginary friend's 99 names ? don't you ? I am sure the egotistical character from Prophet Moron's mind would dare call herself "reflected light" ! Oh well, next time, you wanna discuss something, drop your attitude. Nobody here is going to think better of you!
@Ganstaz003 3. Bones – LMAO ….I think many have explained already about this including me. Watch this youtube video > /watch?v=l618ehmV5lg.
And also it is of similar matter to above cases.
Use a search engine and a Muslims source to clear your twisted views about Islam. In this day and age to be confused about what is taught by Muslims and Islam is ridiculous. LMAO.
@Ganstaz003 I know I am right because their enough evidence to base my judgment on. There is undeniable truth in Quran and Islam. If you have doubts about Islam it would be like having doubts whether you are living or dead. It is a sure thing. This is not arrogance, merely knowing it , doesnt make me arrogant. You are the one who comes here and trying to disprove and deny everything. I dont go telling this is wrong and that is wrong, I go telling this is correct, would you not reason with me.
@Ganstaz003 Actually I KNOW.. so yours is the one who is faith based, you make crazy theories to deny the evidence. Anyone can counter evidence with illogical theories. If I say look this the train track this is evidence that train would come, but you would make your illogical theory, no no this is not a train track its just two bars of iron so that you can walk without loosing the way and therefore there is no evidence of a train. LMAO
@Ganstaz003 LMAO....you idiot...the train track is the only visible thing dumbass...dumbass cant even get the facts straight, I dont know how dumb a person get than this.
I am trying to explain something to you using preconditioned story, and you make your own retarded condition to it? LMAO....I know a train is visible you think I dont know dumbass retard?
what kind of idiot are you to not get simple story to help you understand things?
@PlrinPuruPuru "the train track is the only visible thing "
What does that supposed to mean?
"I am trying to explain something to you using preconditioned story"
Yes, and your 'story' is flawed as I've just demonstrated.
The train evidence is a testable claim. If I say 'the train track is a safe place to walk in and there is no evidence that a train will come' the person I said this to could actually SHOW me that a train WILL come.
@Ganstaz003 Talking from ignorance. If you were smart you would know why you are being illogical in your arguments. So shut up and be humble for you are being a clown in eyes of any smart person.
Quran evidence = testable and verified
Pharoah body found. Embryology perfect match. Beginning of universe explained. Two seas natural barrier exist. Israel is has come into one crowd from different nations. Israel fight behind walls. All verified, only stupid idiots deny this.
@PlrinPuruPuru "Quran evidence = testable and verified - Pharoah, embryology, two seas, beginning of the universe perfect match"
Strawman fallacy! I was actually referring to the inimitability of the Qur'an = non testable claim.
It is my fault for not being clear enough so I apologize. But as far as all the other claims are concerned, they are not worthy of being called a 'miracle'.
@Ganstaz003 The purpose of the train is to explain the train without showing the train. I believe that what is the argument. If you believe when you see the train, you will believe when you see the hell fire. But by then it will be too late. I guess as long as you dont see God you are going to make up excuses just like the old man who made excuses until he sees the train. You and the old man is the same. Stupid brainless zombies who make up excuses to deny evidences.
@PlrinPuruPuru You are wrong my friend. You are so very very wrong. If you want to belive in superstion then by all means do so, just know that your foolishness is a trait that is universal with fools that clam understanding.
@karikon11 I think you are the foolish one here, you just don't know what foolishness is because you are, well, foolish. Superstition? Is that what you want to believe this is? Then by all means do so. We will see who really is superstitious.
@PlrinPuruPuru "Train purpose ... explain without showing. If you believe when you see the train, you will believe when you see the hell fire".
This time you've made your argument more clear and specific. There reason why last time I called you analogy to be 'retarded' is because it wasn't clear enough.
Anyway, someone showing me the train example aside, you argument still remains flawed.
@PlrinPuruPuru Here is why your argument remains flawed:
* A person could use his power of observation to deduce that a train track is dangerous.
- Iron, metal objects, uncomfortable surface are all indication/evidence that you must not walk in the train track.
I don't need to see the train to consider it as 'evidence'. I will just need to observe the surfaces in which the train travels and will be able to tell using my observation skills that the train track indeed is unsafe.
@Ganstaz003 6) you dont know anything about the language Arabic yet you seems to tell me that you understand Quran better than anyone
7) you held personal assumptions, translations, and presumptions of some people over the reality, the truth and the original message
8) You have a personal quarrel with my sentence structure and grammar while it may not be the best but still on a level high for a person whom English is the second language.
@Ganstaz003 9) You have this fallacy arguments which you seem to apply to every argument so you can conveniently deny the argument and quite often no explanation given as to why you think those fallacies apply
10) Your view of Islam is completely learned from a person outside the Islam
11) you held the view of Anti-Islam moronic comments over the facts we learn from Islam
12) You have poor understanding of why Quran and science cannot be the same
@Ganstaz003 13) You have poor understanding of why Quran does not prescribe science as a matter of fact
14) You have poor understanding of why Quran CANNOT have science in full details
15) You have poor understanding that Quran is for all ages for all people and therefore cannot have technical terms and cannot have many science explained in detail which would create a confusion among the people and this confusion cannot be solved unless new scientific CONT>
@Ganstaz003 theories to aid this confusion are found, and we dont know how many years that could take, so in mean while the people have a legitimate reason to deny Quran.
@Ganstaz003 No, the real person who should be asking how can I reason with you when you keep asserting illogical and weird theories to the reason and evidence i present.
@PlrinPuruPuru "No, the real person who should be asking how can I reason with you when you keep asserting illogical and weird theories to the reason and evidence i present".
I've already demonstrated your arguments to be flawed/fallacious. However, you've not
@Ganstaz003 And look how desperate people are to make others God, if anyone know exactly how the fetus grew before or in the 7th century with this much accuracy, this ought prove whoever it is an extraordinary man. So, if you want to claim everyone back in the day described fetus development in Quran, it is to claim that they are inhumane super beings without the aid of any powerful tools described in perfect coherence the science of embryology. And this ought to be a stupid claim.
@PlrinPuruPuru "And look how desperate people are to make others God"
God does not mean god of Islam. God does not mean god of a religion
I believe in a god, but I don't believe in Islam. I believe in a god, but I don't believe in any religion. I believe in a supernatural power which caused the universe to exist and I worship that god without the need of a religion.
I do exactly what you do, pray to god. But I don't take an ancient fairy tale as a book of divine origin.
What's the background music?
ProgressiveAudio 1 month ago
Commando operation? Like cliches much?
MoeRocco75 2 months ago
Mr Rashid uses the good-old religious brow-beating debating style. He poses a question and when Prof Myers tries to respond he instantly turns up the volume, speaks very quickly, raises his hand and answers his own question. Its just tooo stupid.
scepticVseptic 2 months ago
Isn't it also possible that Muhammed could have come up with the idea of mingled seminal fluid just by observation and the best information around at the time, without necessarily learning of greek embryology?
daemonowner 2 months ago
@daemonowner
Absolutely.
1. He only needed to have sex to know about Nutfa.
2. He only needed to see an aborted foetus to surmise "blood-clot", or kill or see killed a pregnant animal to see a "clinging thing".
3. He only needed (misguided) common sense to surmise that bones are clothed in flesh.
Klingschor 2 months ago
@Klingschor I wonder what Hamza would say to that. They are so strenuously denying that Muhammed could have had contact with anyone (which is a pretty big ask, as you showed) who could have known about greek embryology. But this would push their argument back even further, because they would then have to argue that he could've even have had common knowledge. That oughta be fun.
daemonowner 2 months ago
@Klingschor *couldn't
daemonowner 2 months ago
@Klingschor There's verse in the OT that would lend credence to this.
"...their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."
daemonowner 2 months ago
@Klingschor - Perhaps some of the many women put to death for adultery were dissected to prove/disprove pregnancy?
rogan71 2 months ago
@daemonowner
No because telescopes were far, far away in the future..
MoeRocco75 2 months ago
Well played.
bassmanco 3 months ago
I hate that there are Muslims in Ireland. I really do.
vivalaleta 3 months ago
Brilliant!
Muhamed gets caught copying greek science just like a pupil gets caught copying his classmate, by copying the same mistakes.
synsei1 3 months ago
@synsei1 I am sorry did you read the greek science and learned Quran? Yep, I thought so....Greek science is full of errors and it does not resemble what is said in Quran at all, it is just your stupid claim which says it does.. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru Watch the video again, all the evidences and sources are here. The quran plagiarizes ancient greece and Galien's teachings, that were very popular at this time, WITH THE SAME MISTAKES. Have you ever learned anything about actual modern embryology?... Thought so. That's where I started from, not with writings that totally ignore sperms, ovocytes, egg fertilization, nidification, gastrulation, etc...
synsei1 3 months ago
@synsei1 LMAO.... you are a gullible guy if you think that... HAHAHHAHA I have studied modern embryology, and greek and galen teachings and there is nothing similar to greek and galen teachings and the modern embryological findings are in perfect harmony with Quran. I think you need to go to college to learn this shit and come back after doing expert analysis on this rather from reading crap from fabricating and twisted liars.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru I've read all the documents relevant with this topic. I've first heard of the "scientific miracles in the quran" in a youtube video where a proponent of this BS who quoted the quran verses and I immediatly saw it didn't match with what we know, also it has nothing miraculous, these findings are all possible by simple misinterpreted observation. Embryology just happened to be a domain I was familiar with.
You'd get a F- in medical school with your verses.
synsei1 3 months ago
@synsei1 LMAO you are going to take one verse in a book of signs to medical school? LMAO I think I would even give you F- - LMAO.... Quran is not for scientific findings, it is to see how things we would not know unless we have the scientific knowledge can correctly and comprehensive enough so that we could know when we know the science. God does not want you to stop studying the universe, He wants to study the universe and come to know Him. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru BTW, you may like to fix your English up a bit more. Calling me an idiot and dumb when your own grammar and sentence structure is incoherent only makes you expose as the 'real idiot' or the 'real dumb' person.
So far, you've shown you could have very little respectful discussion with someone.
You also struggle to make coherent sentences. Work on that first and then maybe you could come back and call me stupid. Before then, be a bit more humble kid.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 hahahaha, wow, you must be one the most stupid person I have known. And not to mention your illogical comments and retarded claim about my English.
Your Moby dick book, you made things out of context in illogical manner. While Quran was used in a logical pattern. What is logical? LMAO yes I bet you wont know.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Your Moby dick book, you made things out of context in illogical manner".
I can say the same thing about the Qur'an. You also take things out of context in an illogical manner.
Some of the early tafsirs seem to contradict your interpretation on the scientific details in the Qur'an.
In regards to logic, the Qur'an is not all logical.
1) The Qur'an is very repetitive.
2) Vague descriptions are not logical
3) Everything is mixed up in the Qur'an
Not a very logical book!
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Lol early tafsir? do you know what it is? LMAO
Its not vague...its vague to a dumb guy like you...looks like 100% of the Muslims understand it..and the book is for Muslims so I dont see that there is a problem there.
And for you, you need to check with the criteria for having a seal on your heart. The criteria can be found all over the Quran...search for reasons why you would be like a deaf, blind and dumb person and get rid of those and read Quran,
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@synsei1 And explain modern embryology in one sentence without scientific words (scientific words are not for all humans ) I dare you, you wont be able to do better than Quran...Your sentence would not make sense to people and would not be able to imagine what it looks like and would have much problem. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "explain modern embryology in one sentence without scientific words (scientific words are not for all humans ) I dare you,"
It's like challenging me to build a car in one hour with no tools and no raw material (these are not affordable for all). You're making yourdelf an embarrassment. The "embryolgy verses" are factually wrong, there is no science worth the name in the quran, get over it, and don't come back to me until you have something intelligent to say .
synsei1 3 months ago
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@synsei1 It is factually correct. And the verse was revealed just when someone came asked Muhammad pbuh. It took him no more than a minute...LMAO...I bet you cant do it even after a day. Explain the process in one sentence without scientific words, which even the most stupid people can know and imagine it.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
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@synsei1 /watch?v=l618ehmV5lg
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
Muslims should be humilated that their holy book is nothing more plagerised information.
AmunRaRocks 3 months ago
You made so many mistakes! I could have a field day pointing out your mistakes that as someone who poses as a smartguy should have known. Please take this video down, it's very sad. You have shown the lack of knowledge you have on the matter.
Ibrahim1109 3 months ago
@Ibrahim1109
Put your money where your mouth is - make a video response, or don't expect me to take any notice.
Klingschor 3 months ago 3
@Klingschor I'd be happy to point out a few things, but I don't make videos.
Ibrahim1109 3 months ago
@Ibrahim1109
Ok then, add me on Skype and explain what's wrong with this presentation :)
/watch?v=RsV2Vn6wv0k
Klingschor 3 months ago
@Klingschor I'll either post it here or Pm you.
Ibrahim1109 3 months ago
@Ibrahim1109 Better yet call in to the Jinn and Tonic Show and debate.
GroundZeroMosque 3 months ago
@Ibrahim1109 Go on then, have a field day as this video is accurate and salient to the matter in hand.
So come on, put up or shut up.
Rockster969 3 months ago
@Rockster969 lol Pretty words won't remove the errors.
Ibrahim1109 3 months ago
Im a muslim and im really interested in reviewing the galenic texts that have the stages of embryonic development stated in them.
I tried viewing you blog post but for some reason it says i don't have acces to them. i tried searching google for a copy but to no avail.
i was wondering if you would be so generous as to provide me with a mirror or a link to the source of the Galen texts.
Thank you
boshnaqs 3 months ago
@boshnaqs
Howdy,
All the references were there when I checked. Which sources do you want? Can you time-stamp the video, or quote them?
Thanks.
Klingschor 3 months ago
Im Cuffing refuting the allegations to Quran copying greeks and this will show this video is biased
soltbolz 3 months ago
Ugh, listening to Hamza and his sidekick spit out their meaningless word salad makes my head hurt. It's like a Denial of Service attack on the brain.
DrownedInExile 3 months ago
Has Hamza ever seen a fetus? At what stage is a fetus is a tiny articulated skeleton, like a Kate Moss muppet baby?
wilfredthebold 3 months ago
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@wilfredthebold do you know embryology? oh well...hahhahahhahaa...go learn about the fetus in the microscopic level which comes first, lol..so much ignorance...uneducated creeps...Learn embryology expertly and you will know something or just find out the studies...LOL Quran does not state that the fetus become a complete baby skeleton and then some big flying muscles come and wrap it around the completely formed baby skeleton..LOL this is your wishful thinking and desperateness.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
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@wilfredthebold D. The lahm stage. Although precursor cells (myoblasts, or primitive muscle cells) are present adjacent to developing bone ( differentiation into skeletal muscle attachments occur after the ossification process in the shaft and ends of the bones has begun. A major developmental landmark during the eighth week is the lahm stage, which describes the myogenesis (muscle formation) period, and which marks CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
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@wilfredthebold the development of definitive muscles in the trunk and limbs and the beginning of movement. The muscles take their position AROUND the BONES ("clothing the bones") LOL And also >since muscle precursor cells begin their development into muscle as soon as the bone is formed and the muscles can become attached. (Professor Keith)
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru hey.. is this the same Keith Moore of the "paid for" apologetics club? You know the one paid by King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia to write religious bullshit.. then be scolded by Journal Accountability in Research for "The impact of scientific misinformation on other fields: philosophy, theology, biomedical ethics and public policy" that his "Saudi Embryology" paper contained? Naw, you would not be so stupid as to quote him...
daNDayati 3 months ago
@daNDayati I dont know about your accusations against him but he is the one who got Henry Gray/Elsevier Distinguished Educator Award in 2007 and Honored Member Award (in 1994) by American Association of Clinical Anatomists. Anyone who is an activist in a particular view is NOT objective. PZ Myers is an atheist activists, I believe there is more reason that he is paid because why else would an atheist attack someone's personal view about his scientific finding and relating it to Quran.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@daNDayati He did not based his scientific findings on Quran but he related the scientific details he found out with Quran and he found out that it matches and he said no one could have known it, but it coincides... And about the people who try to attack his credibility by claiming he did not become Muslim yet he said that. Many knew Christ or other prophets were indeed prophets yet why they deny them?
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru please don't bring in a jesus into this argument.. any claim of supernatural has to be considered bogus until proven otherwise.. and no supernatural argument has been proven to date.
daNDayati 3 months ago
@daNDayati And lets assume he is biased...Does the scientific findings have error? Does the Quran do not say what it says? Why is it wrong or biased? What is the wrong point or evidence in there?
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru you have to defend the quran because it is the foundation of your religious paradigm.. you believe in that quran is the perfect word of your deity.. and for the rest of us it is nonsense.. Nonsense to even bring it to the table for a serious discussion.. Keith Moore violated a basic tenant of science and research.. he took a religious text, mixed it with a less than accurate account of embryonic development and said .. it must have been a god... unethical.. period.
daNDayati 3 months ago
@daNDayati You are the most narrow minded person in the whole face of earth...actually all of the so claimed anti-theists in actuality but claims to be atheists are ignorant close minded guys like you..they think they view is the majority..but more than 70% of the world is theists. and they think their view is unchallengeable and no matter how outrageous it is. I am not bringing Christ here, I am stating even if you see a ghost, there would be people who rather not believe in it.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru If knowledge were a popularity contest than your claim might be valid (argumentum ad populum.. excuse my latin)... cognitive neuroscience best answers religious delusions.. not only 70% but for centuries people believe in gods, spirits, demons and the like.. that was a real problem. now it is better understood..there are several good theories on by people make up and believe in gods.. why even pigeons are superstitious (re: BF Skinner)
daNDayati 3 months ago
@daNDayati I remember a story from one of the Yusuf Estes videos which would make you picture what I am talking about..Anyway here is the summary...an old guy comes and builds a tent on a railway track..and some guy saw this and told to take the tent somewhere because this is a railway track. The old man tells what? Where is your proof. the guys says look at the track lines, it is proof that a train exists. CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@daNDayati Old guys says no its just something there naturally. Then when the guy hears the sound of the train he tells him see, hear for yourself, its the sound of the train..he says no, its just something else.. and so on (this is not accurate to the real story) but you get the picture...
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@daNDayati And I am sorry .....I have to do what? No I dont have to defend it at ALL... Why? Because I am sure it is the word of God. If every human being is against me on this one, I would defend it because my belief in Quran as the word of God is not based on what other people think of it. I care less about where you end up in the hereafter, but I would be happy if someone accepts Islam but doesn't mean I care about a defiantly disobedient rebellious insincere dishonest person think and say.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru you don't have to rationalize the unfounded.. btw; Yusuf Estes is a good story teller and a shameless apologists.. (his account of evolution was laughable , not science and deceitful). I have seen your behavior (cognitive dissonance) a lot in muslins.. even when confronted with evidence contrary to the claim that the quran is without error.. they still believe it is the word of god..
daNDayati 3 months ago
@daNDayati hahaha we see right through your so called contrary evidence.. it is nothing but misrepresentation of information or outright clear lies. so forgive me if I dont believe in your lies and misinformation. Quran is the word of god so how can you provide contrary evidence? No, you cant, and never will be able to. I know this. But I listen to you giving you some comfort of your meaningless effort to prove something is wrong when it is not.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru is that why muslims contribute so poorly in science and progress?.. because they can't deal with evidence to the contrary? Rationalization is the only escape from cognitive dissonance... your (collective) behavior is classic..you "see right through" evidence.. is a psychological reaction.You are comfortable with some science but when it refutes your beliefs you can't/don't see it. . My effort is hardly meaningless. It is the quest of all who a useful understanding of our world..
daNDayati 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru and please.. I am sincere and honest.. I value the pursuit of truth..
daNDayati 3 months ago
@wilfredthebold Look at the verse of Quran 23:14 - It uses thumma - for then in the sense to say stages but when it comes to forming of bones and it getting clothed by muscles it use fa - for then to mean that it is not like thumma (then) but fa (then) - clearly making the distinction...LOL such people who are ignorant of both arabic and embryology can claim this as a false one..LOL I just laugh everytime I hear these ignorant folks talking like this
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru hey (again) did you know that Hamza Tzortzis is writing a paper "re-interpreting" that part of your koran.. it should be available now... (He did it in response to the drubbing he got from PZ Myers.. (a real embryologist)..
daNDayati 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru You can laugh all you want.. You have to "interpret" words of the supreme designer..who left it open for multiple interpretations? Your deity could have left diagrams or other proofs..or numbered stages..even the greek (mortal) philosophers left diagrams. Your deity was dealing with humans after all. (by the way is your lol out of nervousness?)..
daNDayati 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru ''LOL such people who are ignorant of both arabic and embryology can claim this as a false one''.
Well accept my challenge and find a new scientific information from the Qur'an which has not been discovered yet. Then we'll see who the real ignorant person is.
>Bring one sura like it
Bring one undiscovered scientific fact from the Qur'an instead to claim it as miracle. The ridiculous challenge from the Qur'an has been debunked by Klingschor. Check it out 'The inimitable Quran'.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 lol...HAHAHAHAHAH I see what kind of idiot you are....Quran is a book of signs, mercy and warnings.. when people find a scientific fact and see that Quran has the same scientific fact, it is a sign that Quran is from GOD Almighty because no one could have known it before and although it was written nobody knew about it until we were meant to see it.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru ''I see what kind of idiot you are''.
Anyone that is reading our comments could tell who the real 'idiot' is.
I am an 'idiot' because I set you an objective challenge which is to find a scientific FACT from the Qur'an before it's discovery.
You wouldn't however call yourself an idiot when you set me an subjective challenge which is to produce sure like a Qur'an.
Objective challenge = idiot
Subjective challenge = not idot
I'm struggling to see your point here.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Prove to me why Quran is wrong about how Isreal becoming a nation from many countries. Prove to me that sperm is not the one which decide the sex of the baby. Then we can talk about being objective. You are the most subjective idiot here. whatever Quran clearly says you add your own interpretation to it or explanation to it...How is that objective? You are the biggest idiot here.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "You are the most subjective idiot here".
You haven't demonstrated that to any extent. Either do so or retract the statement. Making wild claims is just feckless.
"Prove to me that sperm is not the one which decide the sex of the baby"".
Let me prove how the Qur'an is wrong. The Qur'an says the bones come first, and then the flesh, and then the muscle in embryology. This is wrong. They form simultaneously.
Same mistakes as the Greeks!
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 go see my video about how you are wrong about Quran and how I tell you don't know shit about Arabic language. Someone who cant speak Arabic yet expert in Quran? No, Quran in its original form is in Arabic, the translation to English is not 100% accurate and never has any translation been accurate which is why we see Bible is full of errors.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "go see my video about how you are wrong about Quran and how I tell you don't know shit about Arabic language. Someone who cant speak Arabic yet expert in Quran"?
For the record, I was a Muslim until this year. I also memorized the whole Qur'an at one point so I don't know what you are on about.
The Qur'an has no science at all, all the signs are illogical and there is nothing credible to take from the Qur'an
If there is a science, I challenge you to discover one from Qur'an.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Memorizing Quran wont do ANY good at all in this world, but knowing what its says does. I doubt you know Arabic, and also its funny how suddenly people become ex-Muslims and know Quran and know Islam completely when they are completely in a corner...LMAO.... LOL discover science from Quran? LOL LOL Quran does not say it is a science book so look for science in there. It says it is a book of ayats, we find ayats in it, LMAO..some Muslim you are to not know this .LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru ''Quran does not say it is a science book''
Your right. Then don't take verses from the Qur'an and claim it as 'compatible' with science
Either the Qur'an is a scientific book where science is found before it's discovery. Or it is not science at all. In this case, don't claim the Qur'an contains science after the discovery is made. If you want to do that, do it before the discovery.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 HAHAHAH, no you got it wrong. I take passages and facts from science and say it is compatable with what is mentioned in Quran, therefore Quran not only proven its excellence in quality and other features but presents signs even now and will continue to do that in future. If there are undeniable science you would not believe so there is nothing useful to you, because the moment you see undeniable science your excuse will be the ancient civilization knew this and that. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "I take passages and facts from science and say it is compatable with what is mentioned in Quran"
This is done straight after scientist's work so hard for their discovery. As I said, getting vague verses to fit in with reality could be done with any book.
watch?v=ojVn4Rgl8E8
Either find science before it's discovery, or conclude there is no science in the Qur'an.
This same thing was done by the Hindu's. after the discovery, they claim it was all along in their scripture also.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 I dont know how someone can be this thick to not understand the difference between signs and science. Signs can include SCIENTIFIC facts being coherent with facts in something. LOL.... If it is a science book, it would only have science and cannot have other things like stories of prophets, this would confuse people and not to mention it is retarded to talk about things which we cant know until later in a science book. Quran is superior to than a mere science book.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "not understand the difference between signs and science".
I understand the difference. The 'signs' you are referring to is no way proof to validate you holy book. I see signs everyday without the need of the Qur'an.
"Quran is superior to than a mere science book".
Matter of opinion. Something you can never prove non - fallaciously.
"Signs can include SCIENTIFIC facts being coherent with facts in something".
Excuse for the inability to discover science from the Qur'an.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru You are the thick one. Either find a scientific discovery from the Qur'an and prove the Qur'an REALLY contains science or shut up.
Don't say the Qur'an contains science after the discovery is made. As I said many times, this could be done with any book
watch?v=ojVn4Rgl8E8
And by the way, the so called 'signs' of the Qur'an, the Qur'an can't prove half of the things it claims to make.
It can't even prove Adam existed. Your position is faith based, not evidence.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 LMAO at your video....the evidence has logical base for the number miracle but you are forcing your book without space and other things in an illogical order or pattern to create something similar. LMAO...this is why people who dont have a brain to recognize patterns and apply number miracles should refrain from it, rather should stick to simple clear cut ones. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
Comment removed
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "but you are forcing your book without space and other things in an illogical order or pattern to create something similar".
Funny that, cause this is what Muslim's do with the Qur'an to make it compatible with reality. They also force verses.
Or else, Muslim's would be able to identify science and other future details before it's discovery. Since they can't, I will apply the same logic.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 LMAO same logic? no it is called retard logic you used. The people who used numbering system used a system based on logic...yours is just take away the space - no reason just taking the spaces away.. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "yours is just take away the space - no reason just taking the spaces away"
And 'yours' does not contain any specific details at all. Specific > Ambiguous.
Moby Dick contains specific details such as names and how things occurred which Qur'an doesn't.
If you honestly ask me to take the Qur'an as a miracle due to the vague science verses and future predictive details, I will also have to consider Moby Dick a miracle in order to avoid double standards and intellectual dishonesty.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 lol, it is not science verses. you crazy shit. you want to find words like big bang, embryo, fetus to be found in Quran? Then, you have to explain what it is, and this would increase another 2 - 3 pages and would confuse the illiterate people and people who have no real education, Quran is for ALL people. Even an uneducated person will know when we say leech like, and chewed gum to describe the process while your science words cant do that.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "lol, it is not science verses".
I agree!
"you want to find words like big bang, embryo, fetus to be found in Quran"?
No, I want the Qur'an to be more specific with it's claims. vagueness = confusion/unclear message.
"Quran is for ALL people".
A book which is for 'all people' as you claim should be clear enough for 'all people' reading it.
Most educated people as far as I'm concerned, have no idea what the Qur'an is talking about.
It's all mumbo jumbo.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 vagueness? LMAO I think the vagueness is created by humans not Quran. You should seriously consider going for an Arabic class to find out what I am talking about. Arabic language is precise and any translation of it would make it unsuitable for accuracy. Go enroll in Arabic language and become an expert and you would see why the Quran is clear and it is that humans who make mistake in taking the meaning which is not meant for the context. CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 And how clear can you get than telling the fetus will be like of a leech and congealed blood cot and other stuff..even a baby can understand them perfectly and see thats what is being observed in reality. When you see a leech you can imagine how a fetus is without a need to use advanced technology. This is a miracle of a miracle. Nobody can describe the development of fetus it for all ages, for all people like this and with only a few verses. CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Thats outright impossible for a human being. Quran is for all people but like all ignorant people you have a stupid view which is complete contrary to what Quran says. Its mumbo jumbo to you because you are frankly indoctrined with bull crap and you are too stubborn and stupid to see that. It is clear for a person who is looking at Quran without your broken glass.
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
Comment removed
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Memorizing Quran wont do ANY good at all in this world"
I agree with you. "knowing what its says does".
Like what? I don't find the Qur'an to be at all credible. It's ancient fairy tale to me and nothing else.
"So, it does not come to as a surprise when you increase in aversion and increase your excuses when a sign comes to you".
What are those signs? I'm not making any excuses, only that I am not gullible enough to believe in the Qur'an so I'm gonna burn for eternity lol
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Honestly have you ever read Quran? And from my talks you seem to have a very simple mind frame that is not be gullible, but in doing that you become gullible person who cannot think objectively and give thought to what is in Quran. The signs? There are millions, but it would not aid you but more disbelief because your mind frame is set on disbelief and is far from finding truth but worried about not being what society call a 'gullible fool' or your definition of what is sensible.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Ganstaz003 Quran is not a science book, it is a book of signs, guidance, mercy and warning. If all the warnigns and signs are to be completely known like science text book, how can there be any signs for future generations? Only people who give thought to the signs are clear on it. We Muslims take the benefit of these signs while you become more disbelievers...
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003
And surely, We have explained [Our Promises, Warnings and (set forth many) examples] in this Quran that they (the disbelievers) may take heed, but it increases them in naught save aversion. 17:41
So, it does not come to as a surprise when you increase in aversion and increase your excuses when a sign comes to you.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru I feel sorry for you that you have to look down at anyone who is not a Muslim as someone inferior.
Islam unfortunately teaches you to be arrogant with whoever that goes against your beliefs.
Your arrogance is displayed when you have the notion that 'only you are right. Only your are destined for heaven. Only you know the truth. Everyone else who disagrees with you are the opposite and destined for hell'.
This is what Islam teaches, to look at disbelievers inhumanely.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Arrogance? No, hardly...I do not claim 'I am not gullible enough to believe in Quran' and stuff, this shows your arrogance and mindset about Quran, you are not worried about finding the truth, you are worried about not being gullible - but to do that you need to deny everything in Quran - so automatically in order to not be gullible your mind denies everything including the truth and abundant clear signs.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "this shows your arrogance and mindset about Quran",
I am arrogant because I find no proof that the Qur'an is from divine origin? LOL
"you are not worried about finding the truth"
Yes I am. You have no basis to make that conclusion.
"you are worried about not being gullible"
Not being gullible means not believing anything which lacks evidence. Or being irrational and believing something easily.
Of course I'm not gullible. Qur'an has no evidence therefore, no belief.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Quran has evidence you are just countering the evidence by fabricated and misrepresent facts and evidence so that you can deny it.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Quran has evidence you are just countering the evidence by fabricated and misrepresent facts and evidence so that you can deny it".
You may like to show me where and how I've fabricated anything.
Your proof/evidence:
1) Inimitability of the Qur'an = Non sequitur fallacy
2) Many people admire Qur'an/Islam = Appeal ad populum
3) Qur'an contain science = Vague verses does not conform science. If there is science, discover it from Qur'an.
Where did I fabricate anything?
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "so automatically in order to not be gullible your mind denies everything including the truth and abundant clear signs".
You have not demonstrated any non - fallacious/flawed proof or 'signs' which validates your Qur'an
So far you proof:
1) The Qur'an is inimitable = non sequitur fallacy
2) Qur'an contain science = You can't discover a science from the Qur'an before it is discovered by a scientist.
So please tell me why I should believe in the Qur'an and why I deserve hell?
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 What about knowing Israel will come from a group of nations? And what about knowing the Pharaoh would be made a sign and then we discover his body is preserved naturally. What about the natural barrier in the sea, what about the all other science in it which we came to know after we discovered science? Go and give an article about big bang theory to cave men and ask them to find science in it, I bet they wont. This is an illogical argument you created to deny the truth.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Natural Barrier in the sea, Other science, Pharaoh, Israel come from a group of nation, what about knowing them"?
What about knowing this vague BS?
What about 'Moby Dick' knowing Indira Gandhi will be gunned down in cold blood?
What about it knowing Rene Moawad will be killed by a bomb explosion beside his car?
What about it knowing Leon Trotsky will be executed with an Ice pick from Soviet Russia?
And what about all the 'other science' such as the numbers of chemistry?
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 LMAO moby dick knowing shit? - thats what I call fabricated little illogical shit.
I now know you cant reason properly....good luck with your crazy ass counter arguments which does not make sense and illogical.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
Comment removed
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "LMAO moby dick knowing shit"?
LMAO Qur'an knowing shit?
"thats what I call fabricated little illogical shit".
And I 'call' the Qur'an to be the fabricated illogical shit.
"I now know you cant reason properly"
Funny that, since you insult me using words such as idiot, clown, illogical, and then have the bulls to say 'I can't reason'.
The evidence is against you.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Go and give an article about big bang theory to cave men and ask them to find science in it, I bet they wont. This is an illogical argument you created to deny the truth".
One day after the science discovery, Muslim find vague verses to claim it was all along in the Qur'an = logical?
Many years of trying to find science from the Qur'an before it's discovery but failing = illogical?
No, you and the Muslim's like you are illogical. Find science before discovery or shut up!
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 If Quran wrote all the science down without summarizing it PERFECTLY we would be carrying the book in a crane.
Say, "If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement." 18:109
You shut up, you are a stupid clown who thinks cave men can know anything from your encyclopedias. It is humans fault we cant find it before, we are limited beings.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru I don't need to shut up. I've got every rights to ask you to discover science from your holy book as you like to retrofit science after the discovery is made.
Your utter inability does not amuse me. Go ahead and make stupid excuses such as 'the Qur'an is a book of science' or 'Qur'an is not a science book'.
BTW, do you believe in cavemen AKA Neanderthal? Interestingly, they contradict the Qur'an.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 You tell me to find science in Quran while it is not a science book.
But I am telling you to give a some Ethiopian who never knew any science, one of your science book and tell him to discover science from it. I bet that guy would say what gibberish is this, there is nothing here that make sense and definitely no science. LMAO
This proves when the person does not know something it is impossible for him to know science even in a science book.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Ethiopian, science book, never knew science, tell him to discover from the book".
Great! So you agree only an expert of a book could find details from it better than anyone else.
Non - expert can't.
In this case, you are the 'Ethiopian' who can't discover anything from the Qur'an. You are not the greatest expert.
The greatest experts are Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas, Al Jalalayn. All the classical tafsirs.
You are nothing compared to them.
CONT
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru All the science you are claiming to be found in the Qur'an, your interpretation seems to contradict all the 'expert's' interpretation.
Who should I believe, you (Ethiopian - not an expert) or the classical tafsirs (who are the real experts)?
The greatest tafsirs all got the Qur'an wrong. They claimed:
1) The earth is flat.
2) Moon is it's own light.
3) Bones come first, and then the flesh, and then the muscle.
This is all in their interpretation. And they are all wrong!
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 I will try to rebut with as much as summarized rebuttals.
There is a fallacy that makes you fail to realize that thoughts, opinions & guesses regarding scientific verses are NOT valid proof against Islam.
Earth is flat – No, this is not found in Islam, but you can find it in Christianity.
The early scholars based their tafsir or explanation on their opinions, thoughts and guesses from whatever the information they can get when they had NO scientific CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 knowledge regarding the matter. But nowhere does it become a flat earth by looking at Quran, it only does with an incorrect interpretation. This itself is a wrong they have created because they lack the proper knowledge to make a qualified interpretation of the Quran verse, and no way affects the Quran verses. (I will give the detailed yet summarized rebuttal to your inbox)
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 2. Moon has its own light – No, this is not found in Islam either. Maybe you should stop presuming stuff about Islam and actually go learn Islam from MUSLIMS, then you won’t have this problem of giving arguments which are not found in Islam. (I am sure you can pop this one in one of your fallacies LMAO)
"He created the night with its darkness and the day with its light, and they alternate without ceasing. CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 And He created the sun with its shining light, and the moon with its reflected light. and He allotted their stages and gave them separate orbits in the heavens." - this is found in Tafsir (interpretation of) Ibn Kahir, a prominent and leading Muslim scholar in the 13th century.
So why would Ibn Kathir come up with this statement, many centuries before man discovered that the earth was spherical and that the moon does indeed reflect the sun's light? CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Plriu "many centuries before man discovered that the earth was sperical"
A sperical model of the earth was established as far back as 3rd century BC. The muslims started learning about Hellenic science starting in the 8th century.
"reflected light"
Again, already known. Aristotle had done detailed studies on lunar eclipses etc.
Secondly, It doesn't say that in the arabic. Can you quote the arabic please ?
PS- why didnt you quote Ibn Kathir saying the sun is on a chariot
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@captaindisguise LMAO why dont you quote your big ass comments too while you are at it?
Even if the whole world speaks of things even in this day and age, anything that does not match with Quran is disregarded, so how can a scholar accept and suggest it in a TAFSIR? LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise You wanna dance? I will dance with you. Lets see what the Quran really says without bringing the opinionated facts into the matter.
1. Lisan Al-Arab dictionary [1] , Book 3, Pages 805, 808.
2. Al-Muheet dictionary [2], Page 454.
3. Al-Muajam Al-Waseet dictionary [3], Page 962.
4. Al-Mawrid dictionary Arabic-English section [4], Page 1196.
5. Arabic-English dictionary the Hans Wehr dictionary [6], Page 1008, 1009.
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise نور (noor): بيّن (bayyan) reveal, reflect.
إستنار به (istanaara bihi): إستمدّ شعاعة (istamadda shu'aaa'uh) was supplied by its light.
انار المكان (anaara al-makaan): وضع فيه النور (wada'aa feehi al-noor) Put light into it, or reflected light off of it.
نوّرتِ الشجرو انارت ايضاً (nawwarat al-shajarah wa anaarat aydan): اخرجت نورها (akhrajat nooraha) The plant reflected the light off of itself, or it showed the light off of itself. CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise However, plants, as we know, are not a source of light.
النبت (anaara al-nabtu): ظهر و حسن (tha-hara wa hasan) the plant was revealed well from light.
نور (noor): be revealed, to be lighted, to receive light.
So clearly, when Allah Almighty Said that the sun is ضياء (diyaa'a), a source of light, and the moon a نورا , then clearly the moon:
1- Is reflecting to light, because it is إستمدّ شعاعة (was supplied by light), as this is the meaning of إستنار ,CONT
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise which is derived from the root word نور noor.
2- Is reflecting to light, because it is ظهر و حسن (was revealed well from light) , as this is the meaning of انار , as in انار النبت.
3- Is reflecting to light, because it receives light from the sun and it is lighted and revealed by it.
So which light is the moon reflecting? It is reflecting to the sun's ضياء (diyaa'a). Again, هو الذين جعل الشمس ضياء والقمر نورا , CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise and the moon is the noor نورا to that diyaa' ضياء of the sun!
(diyaa'a): الضوء, ما اضاء لك (al-dawa', ma adaa'a laka) the light, and what it originated from light to you.
• The following poem proves that ضياء (diyaa'a) refers to the original light:
اضاءَتْ لنا النارُ وجهاً اغرَّ, مُلتبِساً, بالفُؤادِ, إلتِباسا The fire has originated (اضاءَتْ is derived from ضياء ) for us the light of a mighty glow, that CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise will always be liked by the heart (or something like that).
Notice here that the fire is the originator and the source of the light. And notice how NOOR or a derivative of it wasn't used.
ء (istadaa'): إستمدّ نورهُ (istamadda noorahu) the original light stretched its NOOR forth.
تضوَّأ (tadawwa'a): قام فى ظلمةٍ ليرى بِضَوْءِ النار اهلها he got up during the darkness of the night to see from the light of the fire, the people in the place.
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise • Notice again how the fire in this sentence is the originator and the source of the light. And notice how NOOR or a derivative of it wasn't used.
ضوء (dawa'): to gleam, radiate, to illumine, illuminate, to shed light, cast light.
Verse 024:035 - The oil is about to يضيئ (yudee'o) without being kindled by fire. Notice how the OIL, in the Parable, is the SOURCE OF LIGHT, and the Arabic word yudee'o يضيئ is derived from
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise the root words ضياء (diyaa'a) and ضوء (dawa').
“Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, And placed therein
a Lamp And a Moon giving light.” [Al-Qur’aan 25:61]
The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’aan, is shams. It is referred to as
siraaj, which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj which means ‘a blazing lamp’ or
as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion.
The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’aan as
muneer, which is a body that gives nur i.e. light. Again, the Qur’aanic
description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon, which does
not give off light itself and is an inert body that reflects the light of the sun.
Not once in the Qur’aan, CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya or
the sun as nur or muneer. This implies that the Qur’aan recognizes the
difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.
Consider the following verses related to the nature of light from the sun and
the moon:
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@captaindisguise “It is He who made the sun To be a shining glory And the
moon to be a light (Of beauty).” [Al-Qur’aan 10:5]
“See ye not How Allah has created The seven heavens One above
another, “And made the moon A light in their midst, and made the sun
As a (Glorious) Lamp?” [Al-Qur’aan 71:15-16]
This ought to shut you up. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru The moon does not give light, it reflects light
DanGRtheMan 2 months ago
@DanGRtheMan LMAO who said it does? Learn to read.
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Plrin My 1 comment gets 10 from yours. Great so you know how to copy/paste from the moron Osama Abdallah's website
Funny, how lane's lexicon states muneer means giving light! Oh well!
How about answering the simple question where did your Prophet MoronHamed explicitly state that the moon doesn't have it light! Simply reinterpreting a single word will only fly with deluded apes like you!
"is the moon mentioned as siraaj" - 33:46 describes siraj as muneer...Now what ?? yeah shut up kiddo
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru CONTD2
PS - you do realize that Nur is one of your Imaginary friend's 99 names ? don't you ? I am sure the egotistical character from Prophet Moron's mind would dare call herself "reflected light" ! Oh well, next time, you wanna discuss something, drop your attitude. Nobody here is going to think better of you!
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 3. Bones – LMAO ….I think many have explained already about this including me. Watch this youtube video > /watch?v=l618ehmV5lg.
And also it is of similar matter to above cases.
Use a search engine and a Muslims source to clear your twisted views about Islam. In this day and age to be confused about what is taught by Muslims and Islam is ridiculous. LMAO.
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 I know I am right because their enough evidence to base my judgment on. There is undeniable truth in Quran and Islam. If you have doubts about Islam it would be like having doubts whether you are living or dead. It is a sure thing. This is not arrogance, merely knowing it , doesnt make me arrogant. You are the one who comes here and trying to disprove and deny everything. I dont go telling this is wrong and that is wrong, I go telling this is correct, would you not reason with me.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "I know I am right because their enough evidence to base my judgment on".
No, you 'believe' you are right. Not 'know'. As I said, your position is faith based.
What are those evidences?
"it would be like having doubts whether you are living or dead"
Lol. Believe Van Gogh's painting is from divine origin or "it would be like having doubts whether you are living or dead".
That is comically bad reasoning. But I expect that. This is what religion does to people.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Actually I KNOW.. so yours is the one who is faith based, you make crazy theories to deny the evidence. Anyone can counter evidence with illogical theories. If I say look this the train track this is evidence that train would come, but you would make your illogical theory, no no this is not a train track its just two bars of iron so that you can walk without loosing the way and therefore there is no evidence of a train. LMAO
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "so yours is the one who is faith based"
No, I'm evidence based.
"you make crazy theories to deny the evidence. Anyone can counter evidence with illogical theories"
"Train track, just two bars, evidence that train would come, you say no no"
What a retarded analogy.
1) I've seen a train and a train is visible to the naked eye.
2) Someone could show me a train and show me the train track on a photo for me to be convinced that it is REAL.
Your comparison is flawed!
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 LMAO....you idiot...the train track is the only visible thing dumbass...dumbass cant even get the facts straight, I dont know how dumb a person get than this.
I am trying to explain something to you using preconditioned story, and you make your own retarded condition to it? LMAO....I know a train is visible you think I dont know dumbass retard?
what kind of idiot are you to not get simple story to help you understand things?
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "the train track is the only visible thing "
What does that supposed to mean?
"I am trying to explain something to you using preconditioned story"
Yes, and your 'story' is flawed as I've just demonstrated.
The train evidence is a testable claim. If I say 'the train track is a safe place to walk in and there is no evidence that a train will come' the person I said this to could actually SHOW me that a train WILL come.
He could do this by getting a train himself CONT
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru CONT he can get a train himself and show me that a train really is dangerous or he could show a video to me.
After that, I will be convinced that the train could really kill me and I would never walk in the train tracks again after being convinced.
However, your evidence such as the inimitablity of the Qur'an is not a testable claim.
There are no objective proof that that the Qur'an really is inimitable.
The train claim = testable
Qur'an evidence = untestable
Got it?
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Talking from ignorance. If you were smart you would know why you are being illogical in your arguments. So shut up and be humble for you are being a clown in eyes of any smart person.
Quran evidence = testable and verified
Pharoah body found. Embryology perfect match. Beginning of universe explained. Two seas natural barrier exist. Israel is has come into one crowd from different nations. Israel fight behind walls. All verified, only stupid idiots deny this.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Quran evidence = testable and verified - Pharoah, embryology, two seas, beginning of the universe perfect match"
Strawman fallacy! I was actually referring to the inimitability of the Qur'an = non testable claim.
It is my fault for not being clear enough so I apologize. But as far as all the other claims are concerned, they are not worthy of being called a 'miracle'.
And I've already demonstrated WHY!
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 The purpose of the train is to explain the train without showing the train. I believe that what is the argument. If you believe when you see the train, you will believe when you see the hell fire. But by then it will be too late. I guess as long as you dont see God you are going to make up excuses just like the old man who made excuses until he sees the train. You and the old man is the same. Stupid brainless zombies who make up excuses to deny evidences.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru You are wrong my friend. You are so very very wrong. If you want to belive in superstion then by all means do so, just know that your foolishness is a trait that is universal with fools that clam understanding.
karikon11 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@karikon11 I think you are the foolish one here, you just don't know what foolishness is because you are, well, foolish. Superstition? Is that what you want to believe this is? Then by all means do so. We will see who really is superstitious.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "Train purpose ... explain without showing. If you believe when you see the train, you will believe when you see the hell fire".
This time you've made your argument more clear and specific. There reason why last time I called you analogy to be 'retarded' is because it wasn't clear enough.
Anyway, someone showing me the train example aside, you argument still remains flawed.
CONT
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru Here is why your argument remains flawed:
* A person could use his power of observation to deduce that a train track is dangerous.
- Iron, metal objects, uncomfortable surface are all indication/evidence that you must not walk in the train track.
I don't need to see the train to consider it as 'evidence'. I will just need to observe the surfaces in which the train travels and will be able to tell using my observation skills that the train track indeed is unsafe.
CONT
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru However, there is not even tiny glimpse of evidence that a hell exists. It's all made up.
Therefore, there is no reason for me to believe in hell as there is no evidence. Infact, to imagine such thing itself is a fallacy.
The 'man' you were referring to that walked in the train tracks may either be disabled, or he had the desire to commit suicide.
If it is a real story, please try to give me a source if possible.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "I guess as long as you dont see God you are going to make up excuses"
Strawman! When did I make any excuses for god? Where did I say 'I don't believe in god'.
I explicitly stated I believe in a god. But I don't believe in a religion. Please learn to fucking read next time.
God is real, religion is fake! Got that?
You committed two strawman fallacies. The previous one was acceptable as you weren't probably clear.
But in here, you demonstrated you lack reading comprehension.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru You called me an 'idiot' and 'dumb' many times but failed to prove it.
Here is why you are an idiot:
1) You've got extremely poor sentenced structure and grammar in English.
2) You've got extremely poor reading comprehension.
3) You've been using fallacies repeatedly.
So the evidence suggests who the real 'idiot' and 'dumb' person is. It certainly isn't me.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 Here is why u are an idiot:
1) you have extremely poor reading comprehension
2) you have presumptions to everything which you take it as facts while they are not
3) you have been indoctrinated bull crap which is man made twisted and crazy ass shit
4) you have poor listening skills and your stubborn nature of denying everything a Muslim says automatically
5) you are indoctrinated with crappy media to look at Islam in a specific way, (seen about how you talk about Islam)
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 6) you dont know anything about the language Arabic yet you seems to tell me that you understand Quran better than anyone
7) you held personal assumptions, translations, and presumptions of some people over the reality, the truth and the original message
8) You have a personal quarrel with my sentence structure and grammar while it may not be the best but still on a level high for a person whom English is the second language.
CONT<
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 9) You have this fallacy arguments which you seem to apply to every argument so you can conveniently deny the argument and quite often no explanation given as to why you think those fallacies apply
10) Your view of Islam is completely learned from a person outside the Islam
11) you held the view of Anti-Islam moronic comments over the facts we learn from Islam
12) You have poor understanding of why Quran and science cannot be the same
CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 13) You have poor understanding of why Quran does not prescribe science as a matter of fact
14) You have poor understanding of why Quran CANNOT have science in full details
15) You have poor understanding that Quran is for all ages for all people and therefore cannot have technical terms and cannot have many science explained in detail which would create a confusion among the people and this confusion cannot be solved unless new scientific CONT>
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@Ganstaz003 theories to aid this confusion are found, and we dont know how many years that could take, so in mean while the people have a legitimate reason to deny Quran.
I could go on.
PlrinPuruPuru 2 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru Don't bother insulting me again. Not only do you lack any logic, but you also lack a good imagination.
If you are going to insult me, either prove it or try and be a bit more creative.
Insults such as 'idiot', 'stupid' or 'dumb' just shows how bad your imagination is. Try to be more creative with your insults next time!
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "You are the one who comes here and trying to disprove and deny everything".
Incorrect. I came here to ask you for the validity of your religion. So far, zilch.
All the so called 'evidence' or 'proof' you've given me are proven to be flawed and fallacious.
For not believing in you fallacious arguments, you are likely to call me a 'arrogant'. Or a 'deaf and blind'.
How can I reason with you when all you are capable of doing is making flawed arguments then resort to insults?
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 No, the real person who should be asking how can I reason with you when you keep asserting illogical and weird theories to the reason and evidence i present.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
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@PlrinPuruPuru "No, the real person who should be asking how can I reason with you when you keep asserting illogical and weird theories to the reason and evidence i present".
I've already demonstrated your arguments to be flawed/fallacious. However, you've not
What is illogical in any of my comments?
Ganstaz003 3 months ago
@Ganstaz003 And look how desperate people are to make others God, if anyone know exactly how the fetus grew before or in the 7th century with this much accuracy, this ought prove whoever it is an extraordinary man. So, if you want to claim everyone back in the day described fetus development in Quran, it is to claim that they are inhumane super beings without the aid of any powerful tools described in perfect coherence the science of embryology. And this ought to be a stupid claim.
PlrinPuruPuru 3 months ago
@PlrinPuruPuru "And look how desperate people are to make others God"
God does not mean god of Islam. God does not mean god of a religion
I believe in a god, but I don't believe in Islam. I believe in a god, but I don't believe in any religion. I believe in a supernatural power which caused the universe to exist and I worship that god without the need of a religion.
I do exactly what you do, pray to god. But I don't take an ancient fairy tale as a book of divine origin.
Ganstaz003 3 months ago