Basic Income (part 1)

[AwakenFromTheSlumber]

Thomas Paine was one of the first supportes of a Basic Income

John Kenneth Galbraith, James Tobin as well as 1200 economists tried to get a Universal Basic Income instituted in the US during the early 1960s, Milton Friedman and Richard Nixon were also supporters of a Universal Basic Income during the early 1970s and almost had the idea institued but were stopped narrowly by the Senate.

[dontblockmedk]

Money property system is ROOT problem.

1. people need food, water, energy, medicine, etc.

2. money systems require scarcity, so they will never create abundance of 1

3. sharing ALL resources and knowledge keeps small groups from controlling everyone

4. we have the resources and technology to provide EVERYTHING for the world now

5. automating the production distribution, frees up humanity to no longer be wage slaves to governments or corporations.

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[halo2pc]

The unconditional basic income is the solution.

In Germany / Europe, this topic is being discussed intense at the moment.

[REBEWEOJ]

I agree; it is the only way to resolve the economic nightmares caused by politcal manipulation. Usually it is blamed on the "free market".

If we had a truly free market we could afford homes, health care, food, ect. There would be no runaway inflation, no more massive depressions like what Hoover and Roosevelt gave us, ect.

Check out Austrian economics.

[halo2pc]

To find out more about the so called UBI (Unconditional Basic Income) please search for "8 Gründe die für ein bGE sprechen."

That's a short introduction in english with german subtitles.

[REBEWEOJ]

It was actually attempted in several cities by Nixon (contrary to the conservative comments I might add) and they found that it ended up causing horrible disincentivization to workers to pursue anything beyond part time work.

Charles Murray the terrible horrible conservative/libertarian has written a book entitled "In our hands" about this same subject in which he devises a $10,000 rebate with a healthcare mandate as well.

[93rardo]

I know the idea was tested in Nixon's time. I read that it did NOT disincentive people to work.

However, even if it would disincentive people to work, it doesn't matter when there is high unemployment.

With technological advancement we need to work less and less in order to keep things running.

[REBEWEOJ]

Actually, it was proposed by conservative/libertarian Milton Friedman, conservative/libertarian Charles Murray, and RIchard Nixon's surrogates.

The problem then as now was in fact the false priestly class of democrats in Washington. They would never willingly absolve themselves from the economic trough that they benefit from and allow individual choice and localities to decide the fate of eah person.

It would prove to be fatal to the Washington status quo of both parties.

[93rardo]

A pity that the politicians of that time (seventies) didn't dare to introduce something new and progressive.

However, the current creditcrisis could acttually make a basic income feasible. As the old/current system isn't working to keep the economy in order, Washington will have to think of something new. Hopefully they've learned their lesson that the old neo-liberal economy don't work anymore and will introduce a basic income.

[REBEWEOJ]

Well actually if we had an actual free market this would not have happened at all. It was mortgages sponsored by an implicit government guarantee, which basically ok'd the faulty high/low income mortgages, removed the market risk, socialized the costs while privatizing the profits.

Everyone is "greedy" right? In a market you are held in account by risk of failure, when the government removes the risk...what happens?

[93rardo]

But it's not just the mortgages. The buildig up of debt has been going on for 3 decades. Especially private debt. How do you explain that?

[REBEWEOJ]

Well, that's easy. We have never had a truely capitalistic market. It has always been a corporate welfare society based on interventionist governmental foreign policy.

The federal reserve has been devaluing the dollar for years, printing money for years, encouraging debt for years.

In my ideal world I would live in a capitalist society but I think a basic income would be preferable as a second route to eliminate involuntary poverty immediately. Imagine that, poverty gone today.

[93rardo]

In the US the consumer has been given easy loans in order to keep consuming and thereby keep the economy running. In fact the banks are almost giving the consumer money for nothing. It would be a small step towards a basic income. The consumer gets money in order to keep the economy running. Tax cuts and conpensation for (former) high oil prices are simular.

[REBEWEOJ]

See my comments,

[REBEWEOJ]

The way to achieve this is impose a Fair tax (consumption tax), cut oversees military budgets, eradicate most of the social/welfare beaurocracy (not the actual benefits), refund the lower class of the taxes collected through the tax, madate a minimum $3,000 healthcare, refund the rest of the $7,000 to the individual, and the affluent would be pouring charitable donations, creating jobs, the poor would be enabled to attend school, car payments, afford homes (w/o disasterous fannie/freddie) ect.

[93rardo]

Great ideas! Why not introduce universal healthcare for free like in the UK? Also public transportation should be free. Than people might use the car less which benefits the environment.

[REBEWEOJ]

Check out monopolies anarcho capitalism on youtube. It is absolutely thrilling, funny, and accurate.

[93rardo]

Thanks.

[REBEWEOJ]

Universal health care is dangerously unfair to both ends of the spectrum while benefitting those in the middle (who usually are the ones who can afford health care anyway).

I have a girlfriend who was beaten into being crippled with RSD. She waits 5 hrs already for morphine shots. If universal health care is imposed she could be denied treatments, wait months for MRI, and also those with universal health care are severely lacking in technological progress and innovation.

They piggyback us

[93rardo]

If it were true that the health service quality would go down with universal healthcare than you have a point. However, I'm not sure that that is the case. You say that your girlfriend could have been denied healthcare, however it seems that the exact the opposite is true; that private health care would try to deny healthcare to their customers in order to safe money. Have you seen "Sicko"?

[aeameae]

It's a pity it will never happen.

[REBEWEOJ]

See my comments

[advancedatheist]

Conservatives contrive the argument that receiving money you haven't worked for somehow "corrupts" you morally. But then they turn around to make sure their tribe has all the unearned money they could possibly want, hence their efforts to abolish inheritance taxes and create multi-generational trust funds for their descendants. We have political dynasties in the U.S. where the men haven't had to hold real jobs in generations because their families' inherited wealth takes care of them.

[pongman]

I agree. Equality for all.