Reloading for the Nagant Revolver on the Lee Classic Turret Press using Starline 32-20 Brass

[CimarronPeacekeeper]

use 327 federal mag brass

[vonnieglen]

@CimarronPeacekeeper Very interesting... the thinner rim thickness would probably prevent some Nagant owners from having to file down their recoil plate. I notice MidwayUSA is out of stock until the middle of March, but I might go ahead and try a batch sometime soon.

[puppykicker51]

Could you post the Charging Guide that came with the Lee die set, I have Misplaced mine

[vonnieglen]

@puppykicker51 Sorry I hadn't been checking my emails; I will see if I still have it around.

[jmkpns]

Have you had good luck with Starline Brass? I am thinking about ordering some nickel plated Starline. Thanks

[vonnieglen]

@jmkpns I have had very good luck with Starline brass. I have also used original 7.62x38 hotshot brass, but it is trickier to get good results. The only complication with Starline brass is that the rims are a little thicker. On maybe 1 out of 4 you have to grind a little material off of the recoil plate to compensate. This is covered in the comments below. I believe someone else has a video on Youtube showing how to do this. It is easy and takes only a few minutes.

[highonthis]

Thank you

[bmetstud]

oh wow!!! how about 7.62 54r? is that possible...im about to start thanks a lot

[vonnieglen]

@bmetstud Yes it is possible, but the low price of unreloadable surplus 7.62x54r cartridges generally keeps most people from doing it

[sonick808]

i just got my C&R a couple week ago, i need to pick up one of these little nagants before they go up. I tried a couple months ago; the VERY day I got in the car to drive to J&G from Phoenix, they were all out. lol.

I think the coolest part of the revolver aside from the history is the forward movement of the cylinder to affect a seal. Very cool. I'd like to see Smith or Colt try that in a modern design sometime for kicks

[tengu190]

@sonick808 knight armament made some silenced revolver rifles, PSDR 3 for german ksk, and the new silenced revolver is the Ots-38

[megadeth22885]

do you know the overall length of the nagant revolvers cylinder?... would be interesting to know, currently im considering a project of chambering one of these as a 6 shot .357

[vonnieglen]

@megadeth22885 I would be nervous about rechambering one of these for .357. These are old guns that weren't designed for the pressures that a .357 produces. I have loaded some cartridges a little hotter than normal and gotten good enough velocities to expand a hollow point, but even this could be risky.

[vonnieglen]

The gas checks that I am making in another video are for rifle rounds. The Nagant Revolver doesn't have any need for a gas check.

[Dietzeeeee]

@vonnieglen try this ! ! ! 32-20 reformed brass 115 grain lead alloy flat nosed bullet .312 diameter. case over all length 1.490 starting load 3.5 grains of trail boss. Its a great target / plinking round accurate moderately in power. and not dirty. youtube user thenagantman gave me the idea and it works !

[vonnieglen]

Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try. I have a pound or two of Trail Boss.

[Dietzeeeee]

@vonnieglen The last run I made I used 3.7 grians of trail boss using small rifle primmers with no signs of high pressure. The other thing I like is trail boss is very forgiving when it comes to pressure but it is for use with lead bullets only I hear that using jacketed rounds will cause very very high pressures if using trial boss. you should really check out thenagantman he has some great ideas for reloading the nagant revolver.

[vonnieglen]

Thanks again. I will take a look at thenagantman. I use almost exclusively my own cast bullets. I have loaded up some jacketed hollow points using tightgroup powder and haven't seen any signs of high pressure.

[Dp908]

Are you actually seating the bullets down inside the case for the revolver? I want one but reloading for one sounds like a PITA. How's forming that 32-20 brass working out for you? Is the factory crimp die really needed for the nagant revolver if you're seating the bullets into the case? Never reloading for such a monstrosity as the 7.62 nagant so Id like to know. lol

[vonnieglen]

I have a hundreds of rounds of hotshot brass in which you seat the bullet bullet inside the brass. In this video I am loading starline 32-20 brass. These cases are shorter and do not form the gas seal.

Starline 32-20 brass has a thicker rim. Some Nagant revolvers need to have a small amount of material taken off of the recoil plate or the cylinder will hang up. I purchased a few extra recoil plates for $6.00 a piece. These bullets are easy to reload and the Starline brass works great.

[Dp908]

@vonnieglen Thanks. So I assume the factory hotshot on the market is boxer primed?

[vonnieglen]

Yes they are boxer primed. Hotshot brass is a little trickier to use. You need to make sure that they are the correct length. You also need to make sure that the end of the brass is sized down enough to fit in the forcing cone. You also need to modify your bullet seating die by adding a machine screw so that it can push the bullet into the brass. Generally it is also not advisable to use projectiles larger than .309" in diameter in hotshot brass.

[Dp908]

Thanks for the help buddy. I cast bullets now so bullet size isn't a problem anyways.

[Dietzeeeee]

oh wait from an older post you say I need to use .309 projectiles would 90 grain .308 JHP pistol projectile work? I am just trying to weigh if it is worth trying to reload nagant gas sealed ammo or just sticking with factory 7.62x38r and maybe playing around with some reduced 32 H&R mag loads.

[vonnieglen]

It actually depends on the pistol. These are old guns and the barrels vary a bit. It is a good idea to slug the barrels to measure the inside diameter. The .309" figure is only a maximum when you are using hotshot brass.

.308" might work fine, but depending on your barrel they may not engage the rifling in your pistol well and tumble. With Starine brass I have used .312" Hornady XTPs with enough powder to get good expansion.

[Migs4000]

Not to be nosey but how much would one of those cost? Also is Lee still selling dies for the nagant?

[vonnieglen]

The pistols are around $80 plus shipping. The die sets are available through Midway USA and the 30carbine factory crimp die is about $11.

[Dietzeeeee]

If you handloaded 32 H&R mag and reduced the load. Do you think you could reduce the buldging in the casings enough to get a few reloads out of the casing or would it still buldge to much??? Just curious. I want to make some JHP rounds for my nagant revolver and I am just looking for some ideas.

[vonnieglen]

I have never used 32 H&R mag brass. The Starline doesn't bulge and can be used multiple times. I have used Hornady XTPs in Starline brass. I would guess that the JHPs will work as well as the XTPs.

[tomh1426]

U dont clean the primer pockets?

[vonnieglen]

I have the tools to clean the primer pockets. I occasionally take a look at the brass to see how the primer pockets are looking and scrape them to see how dirty they have gotten. So far it hasn't been needed.

[adcomamps]

i own a m44 and a 91/30 and other guns. is it easy to make home made gun bullets. or do you need a peace of mechenary to make dead bullet come back to life. and also is it cheaper. my m44 and 91/30 i order the bullets on line i get 440 rounds in a big sardine can for $100.00. how much will it cost me to make my own bullets . Thank You Jamie ...

[vonnieglen]

Reloadable cartridges for the Mosin Nagant Rifles cost around seventy cents a piece. I use cast bullets so I use a reduced charge of Hodgdon 4895 powder which costs about 7 cents, the primer costs around 3 cents, a cast bullet, a grain and a half of filler, a smidge of bullet lube, and a homemade gas check cost another 1 cent. They are more work than pistol rounds. When you can buy full power surplus rounds for 20 cents a piece is it worth it?

[Dietzeeeee]

can you trim once fired hot shot 7.62x38R nagant casings and use them with these dies ???

[vonnieglen]

Hotshot brass is great stuff. You definately don't want to trim it back as short as 32-20 brass. You want to try and preserve the gas seal if possible. You can use the same die set but there are major changes in how they are adjusted and used.

[vonnieglen]

First, the shell holder included with the Lee set needs a very light grinding back with a dremel tool or it won't fit around the case of the Hotshot brass.

It is a good idea to set up a trimmer that will get a uniform length for all of your brass. Unfortunately this means you will have to make one. I use a Lee zip trim with one of the universal three jaw holders and a gauge that I believe I adapted from a 30 carbine trimmer.

[vonnieglen]

The sizer and charging dies have to be backed out quite a ways.

You thread a small alan head screw into the mandrel that positions the bullet in bullet seating die in order to get the bullet pushed just beneath the rim of the case.

I like to take the decapper out of the sizing die and push the brass back into the sizing die to crimp the bullet. in place. It needs just enough so that the rim of the brass will fit into the corresponding indentation in the gun to form the gas seal.

[vonnieglen]

The bullets should be sized to .309 when using the hotshot brass otherwise a constriction could be formed when the bullet goes past the gas seal.

The Hotshot brass will give better velocity with less powder, but if you are not very precise your bullets will become unstable and keyhole. The 32-20 brass is considerably less fussy and labor intensive. To a Nagant guy that Hotshot brass is like gold. It is also a good idea to anneal the mouths so that it will last longer.

[Dietzeeeee]

thanks for the info I was interested in maybe reloading these down the road. I have a simple lee bench mounted press. I do have a zip trim. and I would love load data for the nagant. and for me its about the price. Nagant ammo is around 50 cents a round. I would love to know powder primmer and projectiles whats the cost per round of reloading 7.62 nagant using 32-20 brass ?

[Dietzeeeee]

another note I do have a 32 acp conversion cylinder and it seems to work alright after i did some fitting to the pistol. The 32 acp projectiles are around .311-.312 30 caliber handgun projectiles are listed as .308 in diameter at midwayusa. I did'nt have any keyholes at 25 yards with my 32 acp conversion cylinder. So are you telling me if the bullet is to small it will key hole or if it is to big ?

[Dietzeeeee]

You can cheak out my videos I made 2 on the nagant revolvers.

[Dietzeeeee]

I would rate myself as an amature reloader, I have done a caliber conversion from 9x19mm luger to 9x18mm makarov using ammosmith's technique, but thats pretty much the most advanced thing I have done reloading wise.

[vonnieglen]

I am no expert myself. I have shot hundreds of bullets through the the Nagant using Starline 32-20 brass and bullets sized from .309" to unsized .312" with a variety of different charges and never had one keyhole.

I loaded up some Hotshot brass with bullets sized to .309" and had probably 1 out of 4 keyhole. I am not quite sure where I went wrong and moved on to other projects. I keep meaning to get back on that one.

I have settled back to 2.6gr of titegroup for my Nagant loads.

[vonnieglen]

As far as costs go... In order to get primers I have had to back-order from Cabela's and pay shipping, hazmat fee and sales tax which brings the cost of the primer to 3.5 cents. As for the powder 2.6gr of Titegroup is only a little more than .5 cents. I paid around 20 cents a piece for the Starline brass. That probably will average out to around 3 cents per load. So 3.5 +.5 +3 = around 7 cents a shot.

[vonnieglen]

I have one of those Lee Challenger Breech loading presses also. I really like it, and what a bargain when you get the package deals, especially the one with the primer that mounts on the press. It's like $90 for everything. Amazing!

I also like finding 9mm range brass and turning trimming it back for Makarov use. Nothing makes my day more than showing up at the range and finding someone left a bunch of usable brass scattered around.

[tanerofies]

Looking good. I've been thinking about something more than single stage for a while now.

[vonnieglen]

I have single stage presses as well which I am perfectly happy with. I think the turret is a good compromise between a single stage and a progressive set-up.

I was thinking about posting a video using one of the single stage presses to load the same ammo so people can see the contrast. For me the turret goes quicker over-all.

I'd kind of like to try a progressive press at some point, but really can't justify it right now.

[myguitarisaweapn]

I'm looking into hand loading, and I'm considering that specific setup. Are there any cons with going with a turret setup as opposed to a single stage? Could you produce the same quality cartridges?

[vonnieglen]

The Turret is just faster. There is no difference in the quality of the ammo produced.