Mormon DEBATE - on coins in the book of mormon

[labartic]

denial, its not a river in egypt

[dmorono]

The ol' Mormon sidestep. it's a mistake, it's misinterpretation, and other bs sidesteps. It is so ludicrous I can't believe they cannot see their own prevarication,but that is the nature of faith, it transform facts into fiction and fantasy into fact.

[lcar4000]

The Mormon denies the coins because not one coin has ever been found....denies the fact that the Book of Mormon mentions these (non-existent) coins. Unbelievable.

[anthonysfirstandlast]

Mormons are such silly people.

[bobbyraejohnson]

He is a idiot I say that with love lol

[IExposeMormonism]

Has the Hierarchy ever produced an Exhaustive Concordance? What a treat. The problem would be the Hierarchy would have to produce a new concordance every few years to keep up with the redaction's and the new definitions they apply to words.

[JSeely218]

Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, DDon is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, on is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, DDon is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, on is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT, Don is a IDIOT!!!!!!

[Dadutta]

Alma 11 - Nephite coins. LOL!!!

[frnzkuester]

Don you are an ideot

[dredsdomain]

I used to dislike shawn but man this was entertaining, I'm subscribed now lol

[217cmiller]

there is nothing "not Christ like" about saying this fellow, Don, is an idiot... he is an IDIOT!! wow

[OPE08]

I hate to say this, but can the caller show me any documentation that proves that Adolph Hitler ever caused anyone to be killed?

Religion is all myth and fantasy in my book, but the coin thing was pretty funny...

[teriiura]

@OPE08 google tells hitler killed or caused people's death.Religion is fantasy?well maybe but not God

[OPE08]

@teriiura google "says", is not documentation, google "says" is just that, just like the bible "says" the Earth is no more than 10,000 years old.

In my opinion "god", whichever one you choose, IS a fantasy, no less than Santa or elves, or unicorns, I see equal proof for all of them, dusty old stories from a long time ago.

[splatbasset]

Glad I don't go to BYU. They fail to teach people to think lol!

[Nepthu]

Oh my gosh! This guy thinks he made his point, but he's proven wrong twice and won't admit it.

[awolLDSasap]

Don is a thoroughly deluded mormon apologist. Brigham Young bragged about his bowie knife and what he would do to other people if they got out of line.

[buddatheone]

The reason Mormons believe in the the meglomaniac teachings of a man with a

Messianic complex. I put Joseph Smith in with Jim Jones and David Koresh.

They are all murderers.

[meyaxshavat]

its amazing to me that those mormons are ready to even denie there own church,prophets, thinkers,just to prove that those things are not coins,then i chalenge you to tell me what are this things?and this caler is realy stupid,for example his saying prove me that 4=4,the christian explains 4=4 because 2+2=4,and this idiot mormon is saying wel thats not a prove that 4=4,so christian guy goes on saying 2 rabit +2 rabits=4,and the mormon says you wrong.i fell sorry for you mormons.

[h00pla443]

The index and the chapter heading use the word 'coin' but neither of those are the original book of mormon text. Those were put in later. I can see that it's easy to think, 'Oh, they must be talking about coins,' but there is nothing there in the text that definitively states that it is so. Because someone later interpreted the words to mean they used coins does not mean the book itself says they did. No one has claimed infallibility for a church leader

[h2omanz]

Ah ha! I said coins not coinage. Lol

Great show! Helping the blind to see, one show at a time.

[crazy456eyes]

I feel sorry for shaun sometimes.. because he clearly proves this idiot wrong with quotes from the mormons own source but then the idiot cant accept it and keeps muddying the water like shaun said! grrrr so annoying and clearly brainwashed, but funny nonetheless lmao

[andreaburnett]

It's interesting that there is so much mention of Mormons becoming a "God", let me assure you this was not brought to my knowledge until a year after my baptism into the church. This was when I about got whiplash in class whipping my head around with a big fat "WHAT???" Then the fun really began learning about the Man God and his physical wife procreating to plenish the Earth, needless to say I got a divorce from the church as well as the husband who drug me into it

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

Alma 11 talks about measures of weights that are put on scales in exchange for measures of different types of grains, a very Egyptian type mode of payment, as also in ancient Israel. Names also match up with Egyptian names for measures too. (See: Diane E. Wirth, A Challenge to the Critics). Yes, the heading to the chapter mentions "Nephite coinage," put in by those who assumed names mentioned were about coins; but actual text itself never mentions coins. It's a myth that there's "no evidences"

[theembracedofgod]

another excuse to the millions upon millions of POTENTIAL EVIDENCES that is needed to prove the validity of the book of mormon.

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

theem.: Don't care if you or anyone accepts such things as evidences. These are some in many reasons why I believe, not reasons why others have to believe. Besides, in presenting people with evidences, they become responsible for it, to accept or reject it. If by the power of God 's spirit of truth, through testimony, the love of Christ is felt, GREAT! Again, such things are more for believers to explain reasons why they believe, after having experienced a spiritual conversion too.

[theembracedofgod]

Now you "THINK" is true rather than actually having proof for it in the first place... although we aren't asking for much mr tics.

I know that you don't care, I can't argue a belief, because a belief is far greater than facts in your perception, however evidence gives clarity of a belief like the bible does- hint thats the reason mormon apologist attack church and biblical history more than focusing on their own. all just to have an excuse to believe in something that ultimately doesn't exist.

[theembracedofgod]

it beats being an arrogant atheist and LDS which both think in different perspectives that they can become Gods according to their knowledge or spirituality.

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

theem.: It's interesting that you would bring in Atheist & LDS perspectives that they can become Gods; when early anti-Christians called early Christian godmakers as Atheists! Even though the early anti-Christians knew that early Christians taught that they could become gods. Atheist gods?

[theembracedofgod]

hmm show me facts my friend not your own words...

lol...

answer me this question mr tics, Are you a god right now?

[theembracedofgod]

yes Atheist believe that they have "JUDGEMENT" over their own lives giving them the right to make any moral claim and justification according to their perspective that suits them- that would be a god without claiming to be one.

Mormons teach through a illusion of Scriptures from the bible that you can't achieve godhood. yet you've still haven't given me a actual believable scriptures that teaches godhood.

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

them.: Do you even now that the early Christians taught different versions of deification? If so, what bible verses did they use to expound on their own doctrines & versions of deification?

You Tube: Contrasting LDS & Early Christian Versions of Deification

[theembracedofgod]

you didn't answer my question- are you a god right now?

[ToolFan68]

The only thing sadder than watching a Mormon defend his silly book is watching a Christian or Muslim do the exact same thing. Rules of logic are checked at the door no matter what goofy mythology you believe in. It's ALL a game.

[fubecabr]

What a great example of lying for the mormon Lard! I love you as a brother Shawn.

[empbac]

The Mormon argument goes something like, those are weights, not coins, ie, an X of X is a certain mass of a certain substance and scales were used to price-match other commodities. This is a real ancient economic system used in the Old World before 600BC, but since the Nephites leave Jerusalem at that time they should already be using coins. The real problem is with coins in the New World, of which there is no record.

Religion is the opiate of the masses. Neither host nor caller gets it.

[Parley454]

the condescending attitude makes me want to become a born again, whatever. I'd rather burn in hell with a mormon, luthern or Jew than sit in a heaven with some condescending born agains, because that would be a hell. The caller had a point though, all the commentary refers to it as coinage, but the blond guy couldn't find it in the actual book. I don't even know what they were debating about, but the blond guy couldn't admit the caller had a point, self confirmation bias for the blond guy

[fubecabr]

Alma 11

3 And the judge received for his WAGES according to his time—absenine of gold for a day, or a senum of silver, which is equal to a senine of gold; and this is according to the LAW which was given. 4 Now these are the names of the different PIECES of their gold, and of their silver, according to their value...

If it's not coinage, what the hell is it?

Keep in mind that the commentary in the BoM isn't just some dude's commentary. It's the official statements from mormon profits.

[Parley454]

I don't know what they are. But my point is that the caller made a good point. It is the commentary or dictionary that call it coins, not the actual Book of Mormon Text, and Shawn can't admit that the guy has a point. Even if someone is a prophet, they are actually still allowed and going to make mistakes(sort of how you wrote profits instead of prophets, and even if that is supposed to be a tongue in cheek reference, it doesn't work well since so many mega evangelical churches do tithing now.

[fubecabr]

No, the guy doesn't have a point. It doesn't need to say the word coins, to be coins. For one, it uses names of coins found in the bible. Two, it describes exactly what coins are. Three, mormonism officially acknowledges that it is coins.

'Profit' was purposeful. That's what you call someone that obsessed with money and doesn't make any prophecies, much less any that come to pass.

Mega-evangelical "churches" scamming people doesn't excuse LDS Inc from scamming people.

[Parley454]

I'm not saying that calling that different stuff is......because once again, I don't know, but I do know Moses called bats birds: Leviticus 11:13-19, which is completly unscientific, but I guess if we hold him to the same standard you are holding whoever wrote the commentary, Moses would be a chump prophet..for calling a mammal a bird. But Moses was also not allowed to go to the promised land and Peter denied Christ 3 times. So right there we see some pivotal figures who weren't perfect.

[fubecabr]

Why are you resorting to using circular reasoning? Resorting to biblical mistakes, of which there are many, is like trying to cover the ridiculousness of the santa claus myth by appealing to the tooth fairy myth.

Yes, moses was a chump prophet. The supposed moses knew nothing of evolution or the big bang. The Exodus is as fictional as BoM stories. Genesis is wrong on just about every point.

[Parley454]

Ok, so what are your beliefs? Are you an Atheist? And how do your beliefs persuade you to think you are better than everyone else. Also it's called the theory of evolution, as in they still haven't been able to prove it. True, some people BELEIVE in it with the same religious fervor as some do in the creation, but it hasn't become a law yet.

[splavin90]

Yes, I'm an atheist and if you lifted a finger it'd be abundantly clear. Just because something is a theory doesn't mean it hasn't been proven. You're not even using the word theory correctly in the scientific context. A theory is not a guess or conjecture.

Nuclear theory is still "just a theory." So is the Theory of Flight. Or Germ Theory.

[Parley454]

So Splavin, forgive me for not lifting a finger or whatever it is I'm supposed to do, but why did you respond when I asked fubecabr if they were an athiest? Are you Fubecabr? I'm sure if I was an atheist I would be smart enough to know all the answers, but it does seem strange for splavin90 to answer a question I asked to fubecabr? So if you could please clarify that would be great.

[fubecabr]

splavin is a friend of mine, over for thanksgiving yesterday who was using my computer. I accidently used his account to post.

As far as lifting a finger, if you'd simply look at my youtube channel, it'd be abundantly clear that I'm an atheist.

[Parley454]

And I always get in trouble here with both camps, but why is evolution somehow supposed to disprove there is a God? Why would God make creatures that were incapable of adapting? I know there is the whole time frame Bible/Carbon Dating debate, and I just wonder if some monks doing the transcribing thought for sure someone back in the day didn't know what they were talking about and maybe "edited" the time to what they thought seemed more plausible.

[splavin90]

Evolution doesn't address whether there's a god or not. But it does disprove certain gods like the mormon and christian gods.

[Parley454]

well if it disproves Mormon and Christian Gods you should be able to lay that out for us in a clear an concise manner instead of your usual incredibly defensive opinions.

[fubecabr]

The mormon, christian, jewish, and the muslim gods claim that they created the earth and everything therein just 6000 years ago. Biology and geology disprove that.

[Parley454]

I think it would be more accurate to say that geology and carbon dating show that the Bibles time account is off, and who knows it could be misudnerstood, I have heard some people say that a day to god is some really long period of time. Honestly I don't know, but It doesn't prove that the earth wasn't created by some higher power. Hope you had a good thanksgiving by the way.

[fubecabr]

"Off?" It's like 6 orders of magnitude off. That's like saying the distance from NYC to LA is only 13 feet.

The bible has more leeway than mormon does on the issue of the age of the Earth and creation. The mormon god made it clear in D&C 77 that the human race is only 6000 years old and that death only entered the world 6000 years ago.

Yes, the earth could have been created by a higher power, but the mormon god was not that power. He knew very little about the Earth and Space.

[Parley454]

Also talking of circular, people are always thinking they are the pinnacle of civilization and knowledge, who knows in a few hundred years people are going to be scoffing at evolution and the big bang, and I've only studied the big bang briefly in astronomy class, but it seems more like an observation, not really an explanation of a cause or as to what started the big bang in motion.

[splavin90]

How do you scoff at something that has been empirically proven? Do we scoff at Newton's theories? That was about 400 years ago and gravity is as applicable today as it was then. Go jump off a cliff or step in front of a bus and see if it's irrelevant.

[Parley454]

Splavin.....wow, you sound upset, you must take this all very seriously. I didn't know I was "scoffing" but I did say people might scoff in the future, guess it is difficult for you to admit that people in the future might know more than we do now. Does that mean you disagree with me that we are not the pinnacle of civilization? NIce straw man, I don't think anywhere did I bust on Newton, but if putting words in someones mouth makes you feel better go for it.

[fubecabr]

You thought you were scoffing, but you were uttering one of the most ignorant phrases of the English language-"it's just a theory."

Things that are empirically proven don't become irrelevant. Facts don't change.

[Parley454]

I thought I was scoffing, mmm...no I said in the future people might scoff, its right above this post. I don't know you, you're someone on the internet I"ve never met and telling me what I was doing just seems bizarre probably based on some perception of who you beleive I am which isn't that scientific. I don't tell you this or that, because I don't know you, and I'll ask questions if I don't understand you. Facts don't change unless they are shown not to be facts. Happens throughout time.

[Parley454]

Hey I got some biblical questions maybe you could clarify for me. 2 Chron 36:9. Jehoiachin starts reign at 8, 2 Kings 24:8, Jehoiachin was 18 when he started reigning. In Ex 33:17,20, John 1:18, 1 Tim 6:15-16 we read that no one has ever seen God, but in Gen 32:30, Ex 24:9-10, 33:11,21- 23, Isa 6:5, Deut 5:24, Amos 9:1 people see God. Which ones are really correct since there are some obvious contradictions or different time frames for same events beginning?

[theembracedofgod]

first question- both references say 18 in the bible.

Jehoiachin. The babylonian withdrawal from palestine in 601 B.C turned out to be only temporary, and Jehoiakim's rebellion brought the babylonian army to the gates of Jerusalem at the end of the year 598. The city surrendered to the babylonians on the fifteenth or sixteenth of March 597 B.C, by which time Jehoiachin was king.

[Parley454]

Don't know which Bible you are using, it would be interesting to know, but this is straight out of the King James.

2nd Chronicles 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord.

2nd Kings 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mothers name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

[theembracedofgod]

they both say 18 bud. the ESV corrects this- its 18

[Parley454]

The ESV? Talking with different Biblical scholars of different faiths at the Sackler manuscript exhibit, I didn't hear any of them talk about the ESV. The concensus seemed to be that the King James was the best and most accurate, and some people liked the NIV. I personally (when I have time) would like to get a coptic/orthodox bible and see how that one goes. I don't know much about the ESV, just googled it, and I'll have to check it out. But for right now I'm going to go with more trusted one

[theembracedofgod]

lol, what is your point? want to prove the bible as a contradictory so that you can slowly invest your own ideology and philosophy in to the picture to confuse others? There isn't anything new under the sun. The ESV is perhaps the MOST trusted documented text- yes the kjv does say 8, but from what I told you a couple of responses ago, is that problem was taken care of by interpretation of context.

[fubecabr]

Yes the bible is contradictory, but you're missing a vital point. At no point did anyone claim that the bible was translated by "the gift and power of god."

In addition, problems and errors in the bible do not excuse bigger problems and errors in the BoM and mormon mythology. It's a bit like pointing to the inconsistencies and errors in the tooth fairy myth to excuse the santa claus myth.

Speaking of mistranslations, how the hell does the BoM cite mistranslations in the KJV, if it's ancient?

[theembracedofgod]

the bible isn't contradictory- there were just minor errors that do not effect the value of how we as humans come to Christ.

with your last question, I'd have to say that its a good question because the bom was written in "reformed Egyptian" which had direct plagiarized verses from the kjv that was from the greek translations. Copied a language that wasn't even around in that time that some 2000 years before Greek language was existing? give me a break

[Parley454]

Maybe you could clarify which language was around 2000 years before Greek because Nephi the guy with the records left the old world about 600 BC, and I'm sure Greek was fully functional around then...because it had been around for a long time before then, I'd have to check back and see what the records are written in, but ya pretty sure it says reformed Egyptian.

[fubecabr]

Koine Greek was not in existence until app. 330BCE. Funny how a people in 600BCE would quote a text originally written in a language that did not yet exist) in a faulty translation that did not yet exist.

Hebrew has its early origins to around 3000 BCE with biblical Hebrew not coming into existance until about 600 BCE.

Oh, and there's no such thing as "Reformed Egyptian" and there's no reason to believe that Horny Joe could translate it if it did exist because he failed miserably with the BOA.

[theembracedofgod]

"reformed Egyptian" was the language of these "ancient hebrews", however, apologist are having a very very hard time finding ANY kind of evidence in the Maya culture that has such a linguistic connection.

It would be my question to mormons to say, how can a language that was written around 2500 B.C having direct greek (language that was round 400 b.c.) style languages that are copied from the KJV translation.

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

them.: Jaradites were earlier, tower of babel time. Lehi & Nephi were Israelites that were 600 BC. Language wrote was probably demotic Egyptian, a cursive style of Egyptian. There's plenty evidences of this being used in the Old World by Jews of that time, Lachish letters, & name seals, for examples. There's are some samples of this in New World, but preservation of records is a challenge in Rain Forest type areas, in contrast to Dead Sea area, where climate conditions are more favorable.

[Parley454]

Have you ever hung out with born agains, I hear all the time that the bible is the exact word of God. I'm not sure I understand your question about citing. Are you refering to the little footnote citings or someone saying something that might have also been said in the KJV?

[fubecabr]

Yes evangelicals think that the bible is the exact word of god when it was penned.

As far as citing the KJV, plagiarism is a better word. There's many passages of the KJV that are verbatim copies of what we find in the KJV, including some translation errors found in the KJV.

[theembracedofgod]

thats kind of ironic mr 454, what your doing right now is busting on others religions now-

[Parley454]

I'm just busting on evangelicals, I grew up sort of in a mix of Baptist, Lutheran and LDS, and yes I think it is hilarious when born agains call LDS people a cult, when most LDS people outside of Utah interact with society on a regular basis and are part of it, and then there are born agains who have been brainwashed by their preacher not to talk to anyone about religion because they could burn in hell. So not busting on religions as much as arrogant born agains.

[fubecabr]

"Destructive mind control:

I. Behavior Control

II. Information Control

III. Thought Control

IV. Emotional Control

It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause....Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently."

[BigTallOx]

Too funny.

[sanjayarulz]

Don rocks! the poster child for Mormon blindness and stupidity.

[fubecabr]

No, he's not really this stupid. It's a great example of mormon intellectual dishonesty. It's typical cult member behavior.

[ICXCNIKA84]

Coinage, Don! Coinage!

[IExposeMormonism]

Is Don oliomo?

[tastefulphrasing]

Hey man, it is me again. Could you tell me where it talks about Brigham Young and the murders?

[Hollytbo]

LDS members are absolutely deceived by the devil himself..the BOM is a fabrication of a sick mind, Joseph Smith.  Sadly, Don is indicative of every mormon I know. SAD.

[empbac]

The devil isn't real. Neither is God or the Virtual Purple Fairies Living Inside Your PC.

I do find the caller's insistence not to go by the Index and Headings interesting. I agree that they're not part of the ORIGINAL BOM, but so what? In LDS mass psychology there is such devotion to anything a 'prophet' claims that this creates a rift between apologists and average members. The two groups DON'T believe in the same theology, and this is worth noting.

[sarapiork]

Don totally fails.

[tezkingkong]

Fail Don!....Heart of The Matter is a No Spin Zone!....

[breezwonder]

Don=IDIOT!!

[Angrywritergrrrl]

the guy on the other side of the phone is an IDIOT who denies facts when they stare him in the face! just like so many others of his religion. tssk tssk.

[HaykakanBanak]

Jesus, Don's a jackass.

[mormontube]

The guy on the other side of the phone is a little bit stupid, but normally every mormon can read and understand, and you know this!

Why you want to blame the church with the weakness of one member?

[beeblequix]

Mo's assert that the metal gold & silver pieces of money mentioned in Alma 11, which mainly followed a base-8 numbering system, & were used in the exchange of goods & services weren't coins.The chapter states "coinage". The index directs "coin" search to the pieces of gold & silver in Alma 11. Those additions to the BOM were made under the direction of Pres.Grant & a committee headed by Elder J.E.Talmage.

Assuming Mo'ism is true, would God let the GAs insert items in the BOM that weren't true?

[beeblequix]

My bad: its was Apostle Orson Pratt in 1879 who made the coinage chapter heading. The same reasoning still applies.

Think about it. God HIMSELF was involved in the restoration of the Gospel. Would he allow the cornerstone of the religion to become corrupted by the (pejorative) "wisdom of men"? If so, what other corrections/insertions/additio­ns to the BOM are called into question (ie, pure/white & delightsome)? It's not like some dude off the street made that change - the church authorized it.

[mormonanswerman]

I can't take it. Shawn is the idiot here, assuming that the descriptive text means, literally, a little coin. Doesn't he READ?

We are talking about WEIGHTS and MEASURES here. Is he really trying to convince us that there was a coin called the LIMNAH???

How heavy would be that coin, LOL!!

No, they probably had bags of gold pieces and silver, and would pour it onto a scale and see how much it was worth.

There, go find that coin! LOL.

[mormonanswerman]

Alma 11 does NOT talk about "coins" but measures of units, and whether those units were solid or powder, the details of the "coins" is never given, just their value.

And it says a judge earns an ONTI of silver in 7 days (do the math). Zeezrom offered Amulek 6 ONTIS of silver to deny God. That's 42 days pay for a judge, in six little coins? 2 months, guys.

What judge do you know that gets 2 months pay in 6 coins. Be real. It was a MEASUREMENT of the stuff, little cubes? Little dust? Bags?

[MALDITTOROKKERO]

hahahaha now you and your mormon boyfriends come back to give us the thumbs down!!?? hahahahahahah ONCE AGAIN THE MORMONS ARE PROVEN WRONG!! this is great!! ;) thank you for your vids and your show guys!!

MORMONS = MASTERS OF EXCUSES

[cesarcris]

Well what has been proven is that Shawn only insults people. Should a preacher call idiot when he is teaching the gospel.

Ofc he is not a preacher he is a hater.

[Parley454]

Shawn says he "does it in love" but he really is not down with the great second commandment at all. Matt 22:34-40 He has no love for his neighbor if they are LDS(or not), sort of like most evangelicals posting on this video. That is one reason people ranked evangelicals somewhere between prostitutes and lawyers on a poll ( did I hear this at PEW forum on religion? ) of popularity. I know plenty of awesome evangelicals which don't appear like the ones on this post and actually beleive 2nd comm.

[Parley454]

Please expound some of your beliefs that proves whoever you represent as right.........I'd love to hear it.......since all I ever hear evangelicals do is bust on other peoples religions, I would love to hear what it is they actually believe.

[beeblequix]

mo'answrmn,

Ur position is weak becuz u argue what it ISN'T then pose cubes/dust/bags[?] as a weak affirmative without substantiation. U should present positive evidence of a precolumbian society matching multiple facits of Lehite life including one which weighed out gold&silver cubes/dust or preweighted-bags per transaction, else ur argument would seen to be based on conjecture, appear to be a red herring & betray the glaring need2 bravely run away from the implications of metal coins inthe BOM

[Ilegalplayer]

mormonanswer This is all you need that proves Mormonism is a FALSE RELIGION this never happened in the HOLY BIBLE

"...the Lord God did cause a skin of BLACKNESS to come upon them (Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 5:21)"

"..the LORD shall CURSE the land..A BLACKNESS came upon all the(BLACK AFRICANS)..of Canaan,that they were despised among all people..(LDS Moses7:8)"

"...CURSED...to the Priesthood..being of the(BLACK AFRICAN)lineage by which he could not have the right of PRIESTHOOD(LDS Abraham1:26-27)"

[Ilegalplayer]

LDS MORMON PROPHET Brigham Young said the Africans are the SEED of CAIN!

LDS MORMON PROPHET Brigham Young March 8,1863,stated:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of CAIN, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so" (Journal of Discourses, 10:110).

..the LORD shall CURSE the land..A BLACKNESS came upon all the(BLACK AFRICANS)..of Canaan..(LDS Moses7:8)

[DefendingCalvinism]

Excellent job Shawn. No wonder the Mormons ask us to pray anout it to see if it's true because there is no physical evidence.

[FirebrandNIRE]

I love to produce the 1830 edition of the BOM when they arrive on the door step. The amount of changes from then to now are incredible.

[Rockymtntruth]

Man is this guy hot!!

[MALDITTOROKKERO]

hahahahahahaha!!!

MORMONS = MASTERS OF EXCUSES

[bdplist]

LDS will argue anything to support the FABLE

Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

[wrader2001]

So what?

[Lotus4115]

Who cares!!! It isn't real anyway. The Book of Mormon is for Idiots.

Where did Michael Jackson go to college? (Brigham Young) Bring um young Ha Ha

[mormonmilitia]

Don is 100% right. all of those measures are not referred to as coins in the text of the BOM itself. just as shekels and talents are weights of precious metal, not coins.

[uSoBayArea]

..yeah he was right also on his answer on, WHERE is Zarahemla.....He HAS NO ANSWER.

..because there was never a Zarahemla.

[DejaBlade]

The index BoM says they ARE coins. So I guess by your argument, if you had nickels, dimes and quarters in your hand, you wouldn't call those coins either.

It's the same thing as saying if you look up "Don" in the dictionary, and it says see "apologist".

[mormonmilitia]

you're missing the point. the TEXT of the BOM does not call those units "coins" . the chapter headings and BOM dictionary were written by different authors who assumed that those measures were coins. nickels, dimes and quarters are, in fact, coins. ounces and grams are not.  does that make more sense?

[DejaBlade]

At the beginning of this debate, Shawn asks Don to show him evidence of "any coin" mentioned in the BoM. Not the word necessarily, but a physical coin. The reference in Alma 11 mentions senums, senines, seons and at least five other monetary denominations. All of these items ARE COINS. That's what Shawn is asking - prove ANY of these actually existed.

[mormonmilitia]

listen to the video again. Don asks Shawn for evidence of coinage. The only use of the word "coin" or "coinage"is in the chapter heading and in the BOM dictionary, which were not written by the original author in the BOM. If the BOM was a work of fiction, Joseph would have included the word "coin" in the text. these senums, senines, seons are monetary denominations, but they are not necessarily coins. This validates the BOM because the Greeks introduced coinage to the Israelites at a later time.

[mormonmilitia]

these "coins" never existed because THEY ARE NOT COINS. You and Shawn say they are, but that does not make it so.

[DejaBlade]

The index from the BoM says those denominations are coins. Replay from time 2:06. But if that's not accurate either, why believe anything in that work of fiction.

[Dhumm81]

If they aren't coins then which Mormon false prophet decided to call them coins in the Book of Mormon index and text heading?

[mormonmilitia]

ad hominem arguments are for children and immature adults with small and insignificant genitalia

[Dhumm81]

Is this supposed to be more evidence that you're a Christian?

I don't recall name calling or offensive, rude, and abusive comments as part of the fruit of the Spirit; in fact it falls into many categories of the works of the flesh. See Galatians 5.

Why not answer the question instead of lashing out in violent tantrums?

[mormonmilitia]

hey, my works don't matter . i'm saved by faith only. but if you want an answer, you have to ask the right question.....and i'll give you an wanswer when you quit beating your wife.

[Dhumm81]

What planet are you on....Kolob?!!

I didn't say anything about works!

You sir are not making any sense and your name calling is only proving who you follow, and its obvious that it isn't Jesus Christ (the Biblical one or the LDS one for that matter).

In fact, I think you'd be facing some disciplinary action if your own leaders knew the things you were saying here on YouTube.

[mormonmilitia]

the shoe is on the other foot, now. isn't it? ad hominem arguments are for debaters who don't have any ground to stand on. you asked "which Mormon false prophet decided to call them coins?", assuming that there was such a thing. I'm not satisfied that there were any "mormon false prophets", so i didn't dignify your question with an answer. I fired back with equally immature ad hominem arguments to try to show you your defiant ignorance. does it make more sense, now?

[Dhumm81]

It's easy to see how there is such a thing as a Mormon false prophet.

Joseph Smith was the Mormon "prophet" and made FALSE prophecies.

The Bible says that if anyone gives a false prophecy they are not speaking on behalf of God.

Joseph Smith was not speaking on behalf of God.

1+1=2

"The truth shall set you free" and "he that the Son sets free shall be free indeed".

[Dhumm81]

What planet are you on....Kolob?!!

I didn't say anything about works!

You sir are not making any sense and your name calling is only proving who you follow, and its obvious that it isn't Jesus Christ (the Biblical one or the LDS one for that matter).

In fact, I think you'd be facing some disciplinary action if your own leaders knew the things you were saying here on YouTube.

[Exodus314IAM]

The funny thing is if (never) they find a coin as they discribe in the Book of Mormon, you all will be saying see the Book of Mormon was correct, see it said coins. But since it hasn't and never will since its all false. Will you will stick to this twist of words.

Good luck with that, I am sure your gods will like it.

[melaniestevens]

Don lol. I love it when Don calls

[RoninTXBR549]

To call Don an "apologist" give him way too much credit. Besides, a true apologist gives a sound reasonable argument. You can't honestly refer to spin as apologetics...

Shawn clearly showed Don that 2+2=4. But, Don simply refuses to believe it. You can't reason with the unreasonable...

[uSoBayArea]

...Hey test you should of shown the whole video of this call. This idiot named DON asks Shawn to prove the Bible cities.

Where is Zarahemla? Lets book a trip to visit the most talked about City in the fairytale bofm.

[DejaBlade]

This is excellent. I also enjoyed the preamble (not in this video but on the actual show) about the city of Zarahemla. Don couldn't prove it existed, so he pulled the ole "no need to prove a book of faith by physical means" (his words) defense.

When the LDS can't prove it - they dismiss it or recite what they've been conditioned to say.

[Doliath]

Which episode was this?

[DejaBlade]

March 31 2009

[grnmessiah]

I can give you the name of an article that WAS posted on fairlds by Kerry Shirts, but was so insane that it has been removed.

Did Joseph Smith Deny Polygamy? by Kerry Shirts (Aka thebackyardprofessor, AKA thebackdoorprofessor, AKA . . . .)

[testskriftene]

Love to see it... LDS apologists spin out of control...

Have you seen "cartoon banned by antimormons"? Thats hillarious... saying antimormons are so evil and lie etc... nut never ever showing it !!!! HAHAHa

[anonazero]

i have never seen a debate where a mormon's arguments weren't absolutely gutted by any christian apologetic or random joe blow follower off the street.

i have been lied to friends who are mormons and they rationalize it with a ludicris amount of blind obediance to the angel moroni (which i fully believe was actually lucifer OR a hallucination OR a fabrication by a sociopath).

he tried violence with islam then he tried good feelings with mormonism. the end result is the same.

[whatiswanted]

Was that Caller Omiolo?

LOL.....

[uSoBayArea]

....pretty sure omiolo and other self promoted apologist of the lds church watch this video but know damn well that they would sound as dumb as this church moron.

[anonazero]

wouldn't suprise me. he tried to "teach me" by modifying my own questions so that he could give the response he wanted.

[bigd318]

Okay, I was quite harsh on the caller by calling him an idiot. Yet, I do think the caller's logic on this particular discussed topic as inapt and flawed on several levels.

[testskriftene]

yes, a bit harsh.. but so true according to the meaning of the word... Blind and illogical is as true but nicer...

[bigd318]

LOL! The caller is a noob (Newbie)! Shawn pwned the the caller with straight out fact. The caller is an idiot.

[grnmessiah]

I don't think that the caller is necessarily an idiot; I think that the caller has been trained in the art of not thinking about anything contrary to the Gospel by the fine folks at BYU or the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research--many Mormons can use critical thinking skills, but not about their own religion and certainly not about the excuses countering AntiMormon arguments that are put up by Denial C Peterson, et al.

[theTruthNotLies]

Its called BRAINWASHED BY A CULT.

[beshxo]

hahahaahah this is priceless

[chucalux99]

Shawn you might as well go talk to a brick wall. lol

[carpentersdaughter2]

This is so typical of the Mormon mindset. They refuse to take a hard look at the facts. they would rather keep that burning feeling inside that the Church is true. It's all based on feelings, not facts.

[carcabe]

This would be like talking about pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters and then saying you did NOT talk about coins. The caller is not interested in the truth.

[thebigsheepman]

OWNED!