@Gazdo01 Excommunication is like being fired from a job. It doesn't happen unless it officially happens. There is no job god that fires you, and then the "official firing" is simply academic. No, the official firing is the only firing. And the official excommunication is the only excommunication.
And Galileo may not have been excommunicated, but they were the ones who forced him to recant what he said. Are you saying they didn't do this?
Papal infaillibility always existed. It's not because it has been revealed as "dogma" in the 19th century that it didn't exist before. It's like saying that Christians didn't believe in the Trinity before the 4th century, when it was proclaimed as a dogma by the Nicean-Constantinople Creeds. This is of course completely ridicule.
Rome's authority has existed since the early days of the Church. St Augustin's famous quotation proves this: Roma Locuta Cause Finita (Rome has spoken, case closed)
Actually Papal Infallibility was only defined dogmatically in 1870 and it only applies when the Pope is defining doctrine and dogma ex cathedra, "from the chair" so to speak. Which was not the case with Galileo. Also the Church has done much in recent years to fully rehabilitate his image, as well as science's place in religion altogether. The Church is far from fundamental in it's understanding of scripture, especially when compared to many other religions.
If you liked this movie, or you're up for arguing about how 'right' and 'holy' your Catholic or Christian beliefs are, I HIGHLY recommend a movie called "The Man From Earth".
The film explains the evolution of 'Jesus' and the catholic 'faith' through the words of the main character. Although the movie is considered fiction, EVERY point made in the explanation can be traced and verified.
History buffs, former Catholics and Star Trek fans LOVE this film...
DISTURBEDHAWK: Infallibility only applies to "FAITH and MORALS" It doesn't mean the Holy Father can perform higher mathematics without a calculator, you moron. Stumble over THAT for a while. Get educated before you post your drivel.
UKKJD: Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would protect the church with respect to "faith and morals" and it would not err in those areas. He never promised that the men who would occupy the Chair of Saint Peter would all be saints. The bottom line is this: THe Catholic Church is the ONLY church that can trace its oreigins to Jesus Christ and the apostles. As for you and your fellow ignorant Protestants, your core beliefs start and end with that reporobate, Martin Luther. God bless you,
@willintexas You mean like all those popes of yours that married women, were homosexuals, were fathering kids, molesting boys, murdering others, living off their idiot believers money in the vatican, alcoholics & drug addicts, et, etc??
Yeah i can see where you'd get Jesus providing those "holy" men with the power over us evil sinners! Typical traditonal!
Bill Maher is funny but not very good at history or Biblical criticism. His comments about Catholicism are so riddled with historical and theological error as to be laughable. But he is a funny guy. I like him.
Here's a fun question to make someone who believes the Pope is infallible crazy: Who was right and who was wrong - the Pope who excommunicated Galileo or the Pope who revoked the excommunication of Galileo?
But Galileo never did really. The Church finally came to realize that he was right and they were wrong, but because the Church HAS to be "infallible", they apparently decided he was no longer against the Church instead.
This is exactly why I feel organized religion kills faith. You end up in a situation of Group Think and instead of finding your own personal relationship with your god, you find the agreed upon relationship within your group 99% of the time (there are rare exceptions to this).
@DisturbedHavok wow you never debated religious person then, something like that wont stop them to make apologetics- i.e. turning facts around so it turns out religion loves woman, gays etc
@DisturbedHavok Very stupid question. The pope is infaillible ONLY in the RARE circumstances when he speaks Ex Cathedra, i.e. talking position for the whole Church on a doctrinal point.
Galileo has NOTHING to do with this.
The rest of the time, the pope is faillible. He is human, and his teaching are "pastoral", not dogmatic nor infaillible.
Next time, try to read about the stuff you criticize before going public, if you don't want to look like an idiot.
@Gazdo01 But the Pope who excommunicated Galileo was speaking Ex Cathedra... or has excommunication always been a bullshit lie created by men of the Church in order to try to silence those who challenge what the Church believes?
@DisturbedHavok Friend... your ignorance saddens. First of all Galileo was never excommunicated. Secondly, the pope never spoke Ex Cathedra on this, since it has nothing to do with a matter of faith, but with science. The Pope was not against Galileo's work, in fact the Vatican payed for his reseach. The only thing was that the Vatican was against the idea to present Galileo theory as a scientific fact, because it could not be proven at the time.
@Gazdo01 I apologize. It's been years since I even thought about Galileo and remembered he was put into a inquisition for speaking the truth about something that the church believed made him so terrible.
The church took over 300 years before they apologized for doing this - why? And they paid for his research hoping he would prove the Sun and Moon revolved around the earth. They put him through the inquisition when he did not. The Pope had nothing to do with that? Please. it was in Rome.
@DisturbedHavok He wasn't judged for "speaking the truth", but for publishing his theory as proven scientific fact. Need I to say that the MAJORITY of scientists at the time were advocating for geocentrism? Plus, he caricatured the pope as an imbecile in his book. THAT'S why he got condemned. Galileo wasn't very diplomat to say the least.
I'll say it again: the pope was NOT against the idea of heliocentrism. That's just false anti-catholic propaganda. Get your facts straight.
@Gazdo01 First, if my information comes from "anti-Catholic propaganda", where does yours come from?
2nd - I'm not anti-Catholic faith. I'm anti-Catholic Church. I'm actually ok with faith. I just don't care for the organizations of religion. Time and time again, they'll preserve the organization over the faith in the end.
Been nice chatting with you, but it's clear to me that you've been too far indoctrinated by the Church.
@DisturbedHavok Ok fine by me. No problem there. But your off the topic. Indeed I repeat, your first argument was simply false, since Galileo was never excommunicated. Now you might argue as long as you want, I know what I know, and I know what I believe, and I know what the Church has to say OFFICIALLY on the subject. The rest is just rumors and bullshit. The Church was supportive of science. Period. Need I to remind you that by the 17th century, Aristote's view was vastly supported by science?
@Gazdo01 The church was against heliocentricism because it contradicts the bible's take on things. That's the same reason they were against evolution, which I think most have finally accepted.
@ninjajesus81 You got it all wrong. False anti-Catholic propaganda I'm afraid...
1. The Church was never against heliocentrism. The fact is the Church financed Galileo's works. Plus, Galileo was NEVER excommunicated for the work he published, proving that heliocentrism has nothing to do with the Church's doctrine. It was the SCIENTISTS at that time who were against heliocentrism.
2. The Church was NEVER officially against the theory of evolution. It remained neutral until JPII accepted it
@Gazdo01 The church was definitely against helicentricism. They called it heresy and made him recant his statements that the Earth revolved around the sun. That's a direct attack on heliocentricism by the church.
This was during the inquisition. They were attacking people left and right for being heretics. This is one of the better known cases. Are you saying it's all a myth? Where is your source?
And you're right about the evolution thing. They weren't OFFICIALLY against it.
@ninjajesus81 Such an arrogant and foolish mind of yours...
I challenge you to find the official Church document that condemns heliocentrism as heresy (if you even know what heresy means)...
"and made him recant his statements that the Earth revolved around the sun"
No they did. They didn't accept the fact that Galileo presented heliocentrism as an absolute scientific fact, which it was NOT at the time. The Church stood on the side of scientists.
@Gazdo01 You made the original claim, so you prove your claim. You said they attacked him for saying heliocentricism is a scientific fact and they didn't attack him because heliocentricism goes against the teachings of the Bible.
@ninjajesus81 "They" do absolutely nothing. The heretic excommunicates HIMSELF ipso facto the moment he becomes a heretic. The Church only declares what is already known: the person is OUT of communion. Excommunication is not permanent (except in special cases). Saying Galileo wasn't excommunicated because he recanted is just false logic. He wasn't excommunicated, because he never expressed anything that goes against the Church's teachings.
@Gazdo01 Excommunication is a thing the church does to people, it doesn't just automatically happen. If it just automatically happened, then getting un-excommunicated would automatically happen to. It doesn't.
You're operating on false definitions. I don't know what you think heretic means, but you can become a heretic without anyone knowing. Are you saying you become excommunicated at that point? No, the church excommunicates people, it doesn't just happen.
@ninjajesus81 Wrong. There are PLENTY of times when excommunication happens automatically. That is, when a person cuts herself out of communion with the teachings of the Church.
E.g.: performing an abortion (unless to save the woman's life) AUTOMATICALLY results in excommunication.
It doesn't take a lot to be excommunicated. Just refuse any of the Church's dogma. There are of course worse excommunications than other.
How do you get excommunicated automatically? So if you have an abortion in secret, and you try to go to a catholic church, they'll magically know you had an abortion, and they won't let you in?
Of course they'll never KNOW... and you can go on your entire life bullshiting people around you.
But that's not exactly why Catholics are Catholics, isn't it?
You can't bullshit yourself, and you can't bullshit God.
Didn't I tell you the Catholic Church is a invisible institution, i.e. the Body of Christ? Never mind being physically present in a Church, are you in FULL COMMUNION with Christ, through the Church's Teachings and Sacraments??
It's not that simple. At your baptism, you become part of the Church. You are in communion with the body of Christ.
If a mortal sin gets you away from the Church, then you are automatically excommunicated. Returning to the Church is not as easy as saying "VOILA!, I'm back". One has to have sincere thoughts of repentance, and RE-UNITE with Christ's body.
@Gazdo01 Oh, so you think excommunication isn't a man-made thing. Well, it is. I didn't know you were arguing under the assumption that god exists and he's in line with whatever the catholic church says.
What's the point of arguying about the fundamental principles of excommunication, if we're not referring to the Catholic Church being of God? Who cares what you believe in? That's not the subject of the debate.
We're talking about Galileo, who was Catholic, and who never got excommunicated... and I explained exactly WHY he wasn't with full proof arguments from the Canon Law, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE DEBATING ABOUT.
@ninjajesus81 " I don't know what you think heretic means, but you can become a heretic without anyone knowing. Are you saying you become excommunicated at that point? No, the church excommunicates people, it doesn't just happen."
Sorry but you are the one mistaken. I am well informed of Canon Law procedures. Yes you are AUTOMATICALLY excommunited, EVEN IF nobody knows about it. It's simple... EX-COMMUNICATION. OUT OF COMMUNION... that happens as soon as you're not one in unity with the Church.
@ninjajesus81 You see the Church, with the pope at its head, ready to excommunicate people, as this VISIBLE INSTITUTION. It is, but not exclusively visible. The Holy Church is also INVISIBLE, i.e. the mystical body of Jesus Christ.
So it's not hard to understand that if inside your heart you reject any one of her Teachings, or you act in ways that are condemned by the Church, then BY DEFINITION you are not in COMMUNION with her, but are left CUT OUT.
@Gazdo01 Excommunication is an official thing that the church has to acknowledge. If the church doesn't acknowledge it, and you're saying it still happens, then you're arguing that god himself excommunicates people, and you have no evidence to back that up at all.
@ninjajesus81 You really don't get the definition of EX-COMMUNICATION... OUT-OF-COMMUNION with the Church. That's all it means.
Go read the Creed of St Athanasius of example... at the end: "Haec est fides catholica, quam nisi quisque fideliter firmiterque crediderit, salvus esse non poterit." (This is the Catholic Faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved)
If you deny the Church's Teachings, if you act like a heretic... you AUTOMATICALLY become one!
@ninjajesus81 The Church has set a series of Truths that must be believers by Catholics in order to be saved. Faith and Sacraments are what make the Church what it is.
The Church says mortal sins separate you from Christ.
Church says abortion is the killing of the innocent, i.e. a MORTAL SIN.
Therefore, performing an abortion AUTOMATICALLY gets you excommunicated, i.e. you are no longer in full communion with Christ and his Church.
It's that simple... but not for everyone it seems...
These are the facts: Excommunication is something the church does. It's used by the PEOPLE in the church to limit or deprive membership to the church itself. You don't have to invoke any imaginary beings to explain excommunication.
And if you don't know how the Bible is meant to be read, then you can only go by what it says and what was believed at the time. They believed the Earth was the center, so they SAID it was the center. They didn't know any better.
@ninjajesus81 "Excommunication is something the church does"
Are you an expert in Canon Law? You don't know what you are talking about.
I've explained the whole logic behind excommunication, and what it means.
Sometimes the Church officially excommunicates a person, so that it is made a visible example for the believers. Other times, excommunication happens de facto.
Either way, Galileo was NEVER excommunicated, because he never went against Official Church's Teachings.
@Gazdo01 Excommunication is like being fired from a job. It doesn't happen unless it officially happens. There is no job god that fires you, and then the "official firing" is simply academic. No, the official firing is the only firing. And the official excommunication is the only excommunication.
And Galileo may not have been excommunicated, but they were the ones who forced him to recant what he said. Are you saying they didn't do this?
@ninjajesus81 About excommunication, you are simply wrong. Enough said. You'll just have to talk to the pope directly, and try to explain him what excommunication "really" means in your opinion.
As for Galileo, he was put on trial for his comments about the pope.
Plus, he had to recant saying heliocentrism was the ABSOLUTE truth, because it simply wasn't, and most of the scientists at that time believed in geocentrism. The Church wasn't against heliocentrism per say and even financed his works
@Gazdo01 No, I'm not wrong about it, because there is no god to oversee excommunication. I gave you an analogy, but you're just too stubborn.
Galileo was put on trial for saying the Earth revolved around the sun, because it contradicts what the Bible says. This is common knowledge. Show me one source that supports what you're saying.
@Gazdo01 Depends on why you killed him. If he was gay, then you had a duty to kill him, according to the Bible. There's lots of other reasons you were doing the moral thing by killing him, according to the Bible.
But aside from that, I understand what you're saying, but you're wrong about what excommunication is. It's a penalty bestowed on someone by the church. That doesn't happen automatically.
@ninjajesus81 "If he was gay, then you had a duty to kill him, according to the Bible."
And I'm the one who can't be talked to?? Seriously, how old are you? 15??
Can't you understand the point I was making? Do I need to spoon-feed you every single answer?
"but you're wrong about what excommunication is"
I ask again... are you an expert in Canon Law? Excommunication can happen de facto, as it does with anyone who performs an abortion for example. It's a simple fact you're gonna have to accept
@Gazdo01 I understood your point, I just took that as an opportunity to take a shot at the Bible.
I did a search on Latae sententaiae and found this quote on the page. "Excommunication prohibits the exercise of certain baptismal rights, and may involve restrictions on participation in liturgical events and church governance, and the reception of church benefits."
A suspension of privileges is something the church itself has to actually do, that doesn't happen automatically.
@ninjajesus81 You will of course notice that the Canon Law Article 1364 incurs AUTOMATIC excommunication to any person who is an apostate (rejects Christ), heretic (doesn't accept every single dogma promulgated by the Church), or schimatic (doesn't accept the pope's primacy as the Church leader, in unity of faith).
The excommunication occurs AUTOMATICALLY. It's logical, because such a person is no longer IN FULL COMMUNION with the Church.
@ninjajesus81 You will of course notice that the Canon Law Article 1364 incurs AUTOMATIC excommunication to any person who is an apostate (rejects Christ), heretic (doesn't accept every single dogma promulgated by the Church), or schimatic (doesn't accept the pope's primacy as the Church leader, in unity of faith).
The excommunication occurs AUTOMATICALLY. It's logical, because such a person is no longer IN FULL COMMUNION with the Church.
@ninjajesus81 See what I mean with false propaganda? We've wasted 3 days arguying about the subject of excommunication, when CLEARLY (and now there's no doubt at all) you were absolutely wrong.
Most of the people on this planet are excommunicated, i.e. they are not in FULL COMMUNION WITH THE CHURCH OF ROME.
That simply means that the Church is no longer responsable of their salvation, since these people freely decided to live outside the boundaries fixed by Mother Church.
@Gazdo01 How was I clearly wrong? The only thing that changes was you gave me something to search for, which I did, and it backed up what I was saying. Where does it back up what you're saying?
@Gazdo01 Depends on why you killed him. If he was gay, then you had a duty to kill him, according to the Bible. There's lots of other reasons you were doing the moral thing by killing him, according to the Bible.
But aside from that, I understand what you're saying, but you're wrong about what excommunication is. It's a penalty bestowed on someone by the church. That doesn't happen automatically.
@ninjajesus81 "This is common knowledge" Doesn't mean it true. That's the definition of false propaganda. Just like saying the Catholic Church is responsible for AIDS in Africa. False assumptions, repeated ad nauseam, untill common people think they are true.
"Show me one source that supports what you're saying."
Lol there are plenty.
Start reading "How the Catholic Church Build Western Civilisation" by Thomas Woods. There's a whole chapter on the Church and Science, with extra references.
@Gazdo01 That doesn't make it true, but it has more credibility than you.
And no one thinks the Catholic church is responsible for AIDS in Africa, what they say is that the church is making it spread easier by preaching that condoms are bad. That should be a criminal offense, like a lot of things the church gets away with.
I'm not reading an entire book that may or may not contain your proof.
Bring me the official document that contains geocentrism as an official Church Teaching.
Heliocentrism doesn't contradict the Bible, because the whole Bible is not ment to be read litterally. Even the Church Fathers knew that. There are 4 kinds of interpretation of Holy Scripture.
The Church has nothing to say about heliocentrism, just as it has nothing to say about evolution. Even if the pope accepts evolution, it doesn't become part of CHURCH TEACHINGS
@Gazdo01 No one knows how the Bible is meant to be read. To know that, we'd have to know the author's intents, and we don't even know a lot of the authors of the Bible.
The Bible says the Earth is still and the sun is in motion. I guess you could argue that when that was written, it was backwards day, and everything they wrote in the Bible that day was meant to be interpreted as the opposite of what it says.
@ninjajesus81 "No one knows how the Bible is meant to be read"
Then why do you say heliocentrism contradicts the Bible? You can't have it both ways.
Plus, there is only one valid interpretation of the Bible, and it is that of the Catholic Church. Geocentrism was NEVER an official teaching of the Church, for the simple reason that it is not part of her jurisprudence to statuate on such matters.
@Gazdo01 The Catholic church's interpretation of the Bible is no more valid than anyone elses. Why would it be? Because you're Catholic? Not a good reason.
And it should be noted that a religion has failed its sole purpose if it needs to be interpreted.
@ninjajesus81 If there is one christian denomination that is right, then it is the Catholic Church, the One and Only Church that Christ fonded on the person of Peter.
But how really cares what you think? I never reffered to the supernatural, I only explained who things works from a Catholic stand point, which is what interested us.
You can either look back at history with an adult and mature eye, or just bash everything that contradicts your paradigm.
@ninjajesus81 "They were attacking people left and right for being heretics. This is one of the better known cases."
Galileo was never called a HERETIC for his views on heliocentrism. The absolute proof of this is that he wasn't even excommunicated. Galileo died as a Catholic. His trial, even if performed by the Church, had nothing to do with Church's teaching.
One stupid thing Galileo did was making fun of the pope in his book.
@DisturbedHavok It sometimes IS used just like that. You're absolutely right on that. And in Catholicism, this goes for progressives AND traditionalists. Well, more for Trads, nowadays, really. Look at the way Marcel Lefebvre, one of the most traditionalist figures the Church has seen in modern times, was excommunicated. Lefebvre was the founder of the S.S.P.X. , by the way.
@DisturbedHavok Can't forget Pius XII, the man who would not speak out explicitly against the German and Soviet genocides. lol Papal Infallibility flt.
I've been doing a lot of Bible study...in that I mean the history of the Bible...stories and meanings lost in translation....timeline. It's a freaking mystery.
maybe to you...I can tell u are typcial condecending smart ass. Like I said I study the bible which includes things that aren't in it...I study ABOUT it. Just b/c someone studys something doesn't mean they believe everything they are told.
i'm not "debating" anything. you're the one who is ridiculously defensive. i responded to your judgmental attitude. you comment on a bill maher video about how you "study" the bible and then expect no one to respond? you're clearly baiting and then get all self-righteous when someone actually calls you on it. sorry- i'm done with this "debate." buh-bye.
stfu I didn't say you were debating. I said you are the TYPE to jump into a debate and not know what you are talking about. U are the type to spit an opinion with no foundation. Just hurl a bunch of insults that are irrelevent. I said I study the bible...what's in it and other history about it. All you got to say is that's an oxymoron. That didn't even make sense. Then your next reply was calling me a moron b/c I chose to learn. U r an idiot. Get a life.
@AdmiralThrawn000 Good for you. What is your point? The pope is a human being. He is fallible. If you want to put your "faith" in him or any imaginary god, that's your right. I don't know what that has to do with me though or my comment.
@july7nyc It is our right to believe whatever we want. But Bill Maher was wrong. The Resurrection was talked about not just in the Gospels, but also in Acts and was talked about by the early Church Fathers, and Peter himself! If you are going to talk about religion, at least arm yourself with knowledge about the subject!
@AdmiralThrawn000 as someone who grew up in a Catholic school in Italy, I know my shit. But just for the record, religion is not about knowledge- it's about belief and faith. I'm done. There is no point in engaging in further discussion. You believe in the imaginary and I don't. End of discussion.
@july7nyc Do you really now? Have you read St. Augustine's City of God? Have you read books on systematic theology? Have you read papal encyclicals? Have you armed yourself;f with knowledge about the Eucharist and the Sacraments? There are so many tenets of the Catholic faith that barely anyone has looked up. Faith and reason coincide because the world s intelligible. Everything has been thought into being by a great intelligence who transcends and loves us into existence.
@AdmiralThrawn000 And the only records of all of those were recorded decades after the fact, when everyone who had directly heard or seen the basic events of the testament (scratch the magic) was dead, the stories have been altered.
This has been flagged as spam show
@Gazdo01 Excommunication is like being fired from a job. It doesn't happen unless it officially happens. There is no job god that fires you, and then the "official firing" is simply academic. No, the official firing is the only firing. And the official excommunication is the only excommunication.
And Galileo may not have been excommunicated, but they were the ones who forced him to recant what he said. Are you saying they didn't do this?
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
That Pagan solstice tree looks really out of place in the middle there
Nemesis000000 5 months ago
Papal infaillibility always existed. It's not because it has been revealed as "dogma" in the 19th century that it didn't exist before. It's like saying that Christians didn't believe in the Trinity before the 4th century, when it was proclaimed as a dogma by the Nicean-Constantinople Creeds. This is of course completely ridicule.
Rome's authority has existed since the early days of the Church. St Augustin's famous quotation proves this: Roma Locuta Cause Finita (Rome has spoken, case closed)
Gazdo01 8 months ago
bill maher for president !!!
budsyremo 9 months ago
they should rename the catholic priest hood to the super adventure club!! hehe look it up!!!
bcw324 10 months ago
Actually he is in front of the green screen
Zoki77888 1 year ago
@Zoki77888 Actually hes not
amluerxray7 1 year ago
They should've left this in the final cut! I loved it.
MrHoldenM 1 year ago
pope is the pimp....yeeeah....
KonanFlowerable 1 year ago
Actually Papal Infallibility was only defined dogmatically in 1870 and it only applies when the Pope is defining doctrine and dogma ex cathedra, "from the chair" so to speak. Which was not the case with Galileo. Also the Church has done much in recent years to fully rehabilitate his image, as well as science's place in religion altogether. The Church is far from fundamental in it's understanding of scripture, especially when compared to many other religions.
jsday187 1 year ago
I'm going to show this to my Italian Catholic family today.
BIJMOZ 1 year ago
@BIJMOZ how did it go bud?
atheist6in6a6foxhole 1 year ago
If you liked this movie, or you're up for arguing about how 'right' and 'holy' your Catholic or Christian beliefs are, I HIGHLY recommend a movie called "The Man From Earth".
The film explains the evolution of 'Jesus' and the catholic 'faith' through the words of the main character. Although the movie is considered fiction, EVERY point made in the explanation can be traced and verified.
History buffs, former Catholics and Star Trek fans LOVE this film...
btw, Bill Maher is awesome....
goheen1701 1 year ago
the mark thing isn't true at all
Phaseme0810 1 year ago
DISTURBEDHAWK: Infallibility only applies to "FAITH and MORALS" It doesn't mean the Holy Father can perform higher mathematics without a calculator, you moron. Stumble over THAT for a while. Get educated before you post your drivel.
willintexas 1 year ago
UKKJD: Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would protect the church with respect to "faith and morals" and it would not err in those areas. He never promised that the men who would occupy the Chair of Saint Peter would all be saints. The bottom line is this: THe Catholic Church is the ONLY church that can trace its oreigins to Jesus Christ and the apostles. As for you and your fellow ignorant Protestants, your core beliefs start and end with that reporobate, Martin Luther. God bless you,
willintexas 1 year ago
@willintexas
lol, the catholics churces origins are not in christ and the apostles.
its in the pagan religions in the mediterranean area in the thousands of years before christ. :] christ is not original.
sykochikn136 1 year ago
Typical Maher; typical liberal. Espousing his crap; no facts.
#1- "Papal Infallibility regards "faith and morals" - only those two issues. And it's based on the words of Christ.
#2- Confessing to a priest is based on the words of Christ: Matthew chapter 16, verses 17-20
willintexas 1 year ago
@willintexas You mean like all those popes of yours that married women, were homosexuals, were fathering kids, molesting boys, murdering others, living off their idiot believers money in the vatican, alcoholics & drug addicts, et, etc??
Yeah i can see where you'd get Jesus providing those "holy" men with the power over us evil sinners! Typical traditonal!
ukkjd 1 year ago
@willintexas
do you realize how many times the gospels have been altered??
sykochikn136 1 year ago
@sykochikn136 Wow, great response. You must be the captain of your G.E.D. debating team. Get lost. You're out of your league here.
willintexas 1 year ago
Papal infallibility is for doctrine issues, not having opinions.
gangstermaori 2 years ago
Bill Maher is funny but not very good at history or Biblical criticism. His comments about Catholicism are so riddled with historical and theological error as to be laughable. But he is a funny guy. I like him.
Paradoxpat 2 years ago
Here's a fun question to make someone who believes the Pope is infallible crazy: Who was right and who was wrong - the Pope who excommunicated Galileo or the Pope who revoked the excommunication of Galileo?
Let them stumble over that one for awhile.
DisturbedHavok 2 years ago 16
Pope's can unexcommunicate people, they do so when that person stops going against the Church.
gangstermaori 2 years ago
But Galileo never did really. The Church finally came to realize that he was right and they were wrong, but because the Church HAS to be "infallible", they apparently decided he was no longer against the Church instead.
This is exactly why I feel organized religion kills faith. You end up in a situation of Group Think and instead of finding your own personal relationship with your god, you find the agreed upon relationship within your group 99% of the time (there are rare exceptions to this).
DisturbedHavok 2 years ago
@DisturbedHavok wow you never debated religious person then, something like that wont stop them to make apologetics- i.e. turning facts around so it turns out religion loves woman, gays etc
LCHC1 9 months ago
@DisturbedHavok Very stupid question. The pope is infaillible ONLY in the RARE circumstances when he speaks Ex Cathedra, i.e. talking position for the whole Church on a doctrinal point.
Galileo has NOTHING to do with this.
The rest of the time, the pope is faillible. He is human, and his teaching are "pastoral", not dogmatic nor infaillible.
Next time, try to read about the stuff you criticize before going public, if you don't want to look like an idiot.
Gazdo01 8 months ago
@Gazdo01 But the Pope who excommunicated Galileo was speaking Ex Cathedra... or has excommunication always been a bullshit lie created by men of the Church in order to try to silence those who challenge what the Church believes?
DisturbedHavok 8 months ago
@DisturbedHavok Friend... your ignorance saddens. First of all Galileo was never excommunicated. Secondly, the pope never spoke Ex Cathedra on this, since it has nothing to do with a matter of faith, but with science. The Pope was not against Galileo's work, in fact the Vatican payed for his reseach. The only thing was that the Vatican was against the idea to present Galileo theory as a scientific fact, because it could not be proven at the time.
Gazdo01 8 months ago
@Gazdo01 I apologize. It's been years since I even thought about Galileo and remembered he was put into a inquisition for speaking the truth about something that the church believed made him so terrible.
The church took over 300 years before they apologized for doing this - why? And they paid for his research hoping he would prove the Sun and Moon revolved around the earth. They put him through the inquisition when he did not. The Pope had nothing to do with that? Please. it was in Rome.
DisturbedHavok 8 months ago
@DisturbedHavok He wasn't judged for "speaking the truth", but for publishing his theory as proven scientific fact. Need I to say that the MAJORITY of scientists at the time were advocating for geocentrism? Plus, he caricatured the pope as an imbecile in his book. THAT'S why he got condemned. Galileo wasn't very diplomat to say the least.
I'll say it again: the pope was NOT against the idea of heliocentrism. That's just false anti-catholic propaganda. Get your facts straight.
Gazdo01 8 months ago
@Gazdo01 First, if my information comes from "anti-Catholic propaganda", where does yours come from?
2nd - I'm not anti-Catholic faith. I'm anti-Catholic Church. I'm actually ok with faith. I just don't care for the organizations of religion. Time and time again, they'll preserve the organization over the faith in the end.
Been nice chatting with you, but it's clear to me that you've been too far indoctrinated by the Church.
DisturbedHavok 7 months ago
@DisturbedHavok Ok fine by me. No problem there. But your off the topic. Indeed I repeat, your first argument was simply false, since Galileo was never excommunicated. Now you might argue as long as you want, I know what I know, and I know what I believe, and I know what the Church has to say OFFICIALLY on the subject. The rest is just rumors and bullshit. The Church was supportive of science. Period. Need I to remind you that by the 17th century, Aristote's view was vastly supported by science?
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01 The church was against heliocentricism because it contradicts the bible's take on things. That's the same reason they were against evolution, which I think most have finally accepted.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 You got it all wrong. False anti-Catholic propaganda I'm afraid...
1. The Church was never against heliocentrism. The fact is the Church financed Galileo's works. Plus, Galileo was NEVER excommunicated for the work he published, proving that heliocentrism has nothing to do with the Church's doctrine. It was the SCIENTISTS at that time who were against heliocentrism.
2. The Church was NEVER officially against the theory of evolution. It remained neutral until JPII accepted it
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 The church was definitely against helicentricism. They called it heresy and made him recant his statements that the Earth revolved around the sun. That's a direct attack on heliocentricism by the church.
This was during the inquisition. They were attacking people left and right for being heretics. This is one of the better known cases. Are you saying it's all a myth? Where is your source?
And you're right about the evolution thing. They weren't OFFICIALLY against it.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Such an arrogant and foolish mind of yours...
I challenge you to find the official Church document that condemns heliocentrism as heresy (if you even know what heresy means)...
"and made him recant his statements that the Earth revolved around the sun"
No they did. They didn't accept the fact that Galileo presented heliocentrism as an absolute scientific fact, which it was NOT at the time. The Church stood on the side of scientists.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 You made the original claim, so you prove your claim. You said they attacked him for saying heliocentricism is a scientific fact and they didn't attack him because heliocentricism goes against the teachings of the Bible.
Prove it.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Galileo was never excommunicated, that's the absolute proof.
A heretic is by definition excommunicated, ipso facto.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Galileo was never excommunicated, that's the absolute proof.
A heretic is by definition excommunicated, ipso facto.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 He wasn't excommunicated because he recanted what he said. You're using faulty logic by the way.
A heretic is not, by definition, excommunicated. That's just something they do to heretics.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 "They" do absolutely nothing. The heretic excommunicates HIMSELF ipso facto the moment he becomes a heretic. The Church only declares what is already known: the person is OUT of communion. Excommunication is not permanent (except in special cases). Saying Galileo wasn't excommunicated because he recanted is just false logic. He wasn't excommunicated, because he never expressed anything that goes against the Church's teachings.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 Excommunication is a thing the church does to people, it doesn't just automatically happen. If it just automatically happened, then getting un-excommunicated would automatically happen to. It doesn't.
You're operating on false definitions. I don't know what you think heretic means, but you can become a heretic without anyone knowing. Are you saying you become excommunicated at that point? No, the church excommunicates people, it doesn't just happen.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Wrong. There are PLENTY of times when excommunication happens automatically. That is, when a person cuts herself out of communion with the teachings of the Church.
E.g.: performing an abortion (unless to save the woman's life) AUTOMATICALLY results in excommunication.
It doesn't take a lot to be excommunicated. Just refuse any of the Church's dogma. There are of course worse excommunications than other.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 You're not understanding this at all.
How do you get excommunicated automatically? So if you have an abortion in secret, and you try to go to a catholic church, they'll magically know you had an abortion, and they won't let you in?
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Are you stupid or something?
Of course they'll never KNOW... and you can go on your entire life bullshiting people around you.
But that's not exactly why Catholics are Catholics, isn't it?
You can't bullshit yourself, and you can't bullshit God.
Didn't I tell you the Catholic Church is a invisible institution, i.e. the Body of Christ? Never mind being physically present in a Church, are you in FULL COMMUNION with Christ, through the Church's Teachings and Sacraments??
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 "then getting un-excommunicated would automatically happen to."
It's not that simple. At your baptism, you become part of the Church. You are in communion with the body of Christ.
If a mortal sin gets you away from the Church, then you are automatically excommunicated. Returning to the Church is not as easy as saying "VOILA!, I'm back". One has to have sincere thoughts of repentance, and RE-UNITE with Christ's body.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 Oh, so you think excommunication isn't a man-made thing. Well, it is. I didn't know you were arguing under the assumption that god exists and he's in line with whatever the catholic church says.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Are you stupid or something?
What's the point of arguying about the fundamental principles of excommunication, if we're not referring to the Catholic Church being of God? Who cares what you believe in? That's not the subject of the debate.
We're talking about Galileo, who was Catholic, and who never got excommunicated... and I explained exactly WHY he wasn't with full proof arguments from the Canon Law, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE DEBATING ABOUT.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 " I don't know what you think heretic means, but you can become a heretic without anyone knowing. Are you saying you become excommunicated at that point? No, the church excommunicates people, it doesn't just happen."
Sorry but you are the one mistaken. I am well informed of Canon Law procedures. Yes you are AUTOMATICALLY excommunited, EVEN IF nobody knows about it. It's simple... EX-COMMUNICATION. OUT OF COMMUNION... that happens as soon as you're not one in unity with the Church.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 You see the Church, with the pope at its head, ready to excommunicate people, as this VISIBLE INSTITUTION. It is, but not exclusively visible. The Holy Church is also INVISIBLE, i.e. the mystical body of Jesus Christ.
So it's not hard to understand that if inside your heart you reject any one of her Teachings, or you act in ways that are condemned by the Church, then BY DEFINITION you are not in COMMUNION with her, but are left CUT OUT.
That is the definition of EXCOMMUNICATION.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 Excommunication is an official thing that the church has to acknowledge. If the church doesn't acknowledge it, and you're saying it still happens, then you're arguing that god himself excommunicates people, and you have no evidence to back that up at all.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 You really don't get the definition of EX-COMMUNICATION... OUT-OF-COMMUNION with the Church. That's all it means.
Go read the Creed of St Athanasius of example... at the end: "Haec est fides catholica, quam nisi quisque fideliter firmiterque crediderit, salvus esse non poterit." (This is the Catholic Faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved)
If you deny the Church's Teachings, if you act like a heretic... you AUTOMATICALLY become one!
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 The Church has set a series of Truths that must be believers by Catholics in order to be saved. Faith and Sacraments are what make the Church what it is.
The Church says mortal sins separate you from Christ.
Church says abortion is the killing of the innocent, i.e. a MORTAL SIN.
Therefore, performing an abortion AUTOMATICALLY gets you excommunicated, i.e. you are no longer in full communion with Christ and his Church.
It's that simple... but not for everyone it seems...
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 You can't be talked to.
These are the facts: Excommunication is something the church does. It's used by the PEOPLE in the church to limit or deprive membership to the church itself. You don't have to invoke any imaginary beings to explain excommunication.
And if you don't know how the Bible is meant to be read, then you can only go by what it says and what was believed at the time. They believed the Earth was the center, so they SAID it was the center. They didn't know any better.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 "Excommunication is something the church does"
Are you an expert in Canon Law? You don't know what you are talking about.
I've explained the whole logic behind excommunication, and what it means.
Sometimes the Church officially excommunicates a person, so that it is made a visible example for the believers. Other times, excommunication happens de facto.
Either way, Galileo was NEVER excommunicated, because he never went against Official Church's Teachings.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 Excommunication is like being fired from a job. It doesn't happen unless it officially happens. There is no job god that fires you, and then the "official firing" is simply academic. No, the official firing is the only firing. And the official excommunication is the only excommunication.
And Galileo may not have been excommunicated, but they were the ones who forced him to recant what he said. Are you saying they didn't do this?
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 About excommunication, you are simply wrong. Enough said. You'll just have to talk to the pope directly, and try to explain him what excommunication "really" means in your opinion.
As for Galileo, he was put on trial for his comments about the pope.
Plus, he had to recant saying heliocentrism was the ABSOLUTE truth, because it simply wasn't, and most of the scientists at that time believed in geocentrism. The Church wasn't against heliocentrism per say and even financed his works
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 No, I'm not wrong about it, because there is no god to oversee excommunication. I gave you an analogy, but you're just too stubborn.
Galileo was put on trial for saying the Earth revolved around the sun, because it contradicts what the Bible says. This is common knowledge. Show me one source that supports what you're saying.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Who cares what you think about the existence of God? I'm telling you how excommunication works.
If you live on a desert island with a fellow humain being, and kill him. Nobody will ever know it. Are you less of a murderer?
Some truths exists intrinsically.
If you're not acting according to the Catholic Church's Teachings, then BY DEFINITION you are not in Communion with the Church, i.e. Excommunication.
I really don't see how you don't understand this simple matter.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 Depends on why you killed him. If he was gay, then you had a duty to kill him, according to the Bible. There's lots of other reasons you were doing the moral thing by killing him, according to the Bible.
But aside from that, I understand what you're saying, but you're wrong about what excommunication is. It's a penalty bestowed on someone by the church. That doesn't happen automatically.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 "If he was gay, then you had a duty to kill him, according to the Bible."
And I'm the one who can't be talked to?? Seriously, how old are you? 15??
Can't you understand the point I was making? Do I need to spoon-feed you every single answer?
"but you're wrong about what excommunication is"
I ask again... are you an expert in Canon Law? Excommunication can happen de facto, as it does with anyone who performs an abortion for example. It's a simple fact you're gonna have to accept
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 I understood your point, I just took that as an opportunity to take a shot at the Bible.
I did a search on Latae sententaiae and found this quote on the page. "Excommunication prohibits the exercise of certain baptismal rights, and may involve restrictions on participation in liturgical events and church governance, and the reception of church benefits."
A suspension of privileges is something the church itself has to actually do, that doesn't happen automatically.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Perhaps this will help... Go and search "latae sententiae" on wikipedia.
There's really nothing more I can say...
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 You will of course notice that the Canon Law Article 1364 incurs AUTOMATIC excommunication to any person who is an apostate (rejects Christ), heretic (doesn't accept every single dogma promulgated by the Church), or schimatic (doesn't accept the pope's primacy as the Church leader, in unity of faith).
The excommunication occurs AUTOMATICALLY. It's logical, because such a person is no longer IN FULL COMMUNION with the Church.
Satisfied, or do I need to spoon-feed some more?
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 You will of course notice that the Canon Law Article 1364 incurs AUTOMATIC excommunication to any person who is an apostate (rejects Christ), heretic (doesn't accept every single dogma promulgated by the Church), or schimatic (doesn't accept the pope's primacy as the Church leader, in unity of faith).
The excommunication occurs AUTOMATICALLY. It's logical, because such a person is no longer IN FULL COMMUNION with the Church.
Satisfied, or do I need to spoon-feed some more?
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 See what I mean with false propaganda? We've wasted 3 days arguying about the subject of excommunication, when CLEARLY (and now there's no doubt at all) you were absolutely wrong.
Most of the people on this planet are excommunicated, i.e. they are not in FULL COMMUNION WITH THE CHURCH OF ROME.
That simply means that the Church is no longer responsable of their salvation, since these people freely decided to live outside the boundaries fixed by Mother Church.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 How was I clearly wrong? The only thing that changes was you gave me something to search for, which I did, and it backed up what I was saying. Where does it back up what you're saying?
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Gazdo01 Depends on why you killed him. If he was gay, then you had a duty to kill him, according to the Bible. There's lots of other reasons you were doing the moral thing by killing him, according to the Bible.
But aside from that, I understand what you're saying, but you're wrong about what excommunication is. It's a penalty bestowed on someone by the church. That doesn't happen automatically.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 "This is common knowledge" Doesn't mean it true. That's the definition of false propaganda. Just like saying the Catholic Church is responsible for AIDS in Africa. False assumptions, repeated ad nauseam, untill common people think they are true.
"Show me one source that supports what you're saying."
Lol there are plenty.
Start reading "How the Catholic Church Build Western Civilisation" by Thomas Woods. There's a whole chapter on the Church and Science, with extra references.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 That doesn't make it true, but it has more credibility than you.
And no one thinks the Catholic church is responsible for AIDS in Africa, what they say is that the church is making it spread easier by preaching that condoms are bad. That should be a criminal offense, like a lot of things the church gets away with.
I'm not reading an entire book that may or may not contain your proof.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 And what goes against the churches teachings is everything that contradicts the Bible. Heliocentricity contradicts the Bible.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Again, completely wrong.
Bring me the official document that contains geocentrism as an official Church Teaching.
Heliocentrism doesn't contradict the Bible, because the whole Bible is not ment to be read litterally. Even the Church Fathers knew that. There are 4 kinds of interpretation of Holy Scripture.
The Church has nothing to say about heliocentrism, just as it has nothing to say about evolution. Even if the pope accepts evolution, it doesn't become part of CHURCH TEACHINGS
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 No one knows how the Bible is meant to be read. To know that, we'd have to know the author's intents, and we don't even know a lot of the authors of the Bible.
The Bible says the Earth is still and the sun is in motion. I guess you could argue that when that was written, it was backwards day, and everything they wrote in the Bible that day was meant to be interpreted as the opposite of what it says.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 "No one knows how the Bible is meant to be read"
Then why do you say heliocentrism contradicts the Bible? You can't have it both ways.
Plus, there is only one valid interpretation of the Bible, and it is that of the Catholic Church. Geocentrism was NEVER an official teaching of the Church, for the simple reason that it is not part of her jurisprudence to statuate on such matters.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 The Catholic church's interpretation of the Bible is no more valid than anyone elses. Why would it be? Because you're Catholic? Not a good reason.
And it should be noted that a religion has failed its sole purpose if it needs to be interpreted.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Because Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to His Church, so it would not err on dogmatic matter of faith and morals.
If it pleased God to reveal the Truth, then it also pleases him to keep this Truth in safe hands.
There are 30 000+ so called christian denominations around the world. Only one (and you might want to add "none") can be valid.
I trust the only Church that was founded on the person of Peter, that exists since the beginning, and has apostollic succession.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 None of the things you just said gives the catholic church's interpretation of the Bible any more credibility than anyone elses.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 If there is one christian denomination that is right, then it is the Catholic Church, the One and Only Church that Christ fonded on the person of Peter.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01 Well it's so stupid to argue which Christian denomination is right, since they're all wrong.
That's like arguing which X-men storyline is the one that really happened.
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 Well that's your point of view.
But how really cares what you think? I never reffered to the supernatural, I only explained who things works from a Catholic stand point, which is what interested us.
You can either look back at history with an adult and mature eye, or just bash everything that contradicts your paradigm.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@ninjajesus81 "They were attacking people left and right for being heretics. This is one of the better known cases."
Galileo was never called a HERETIC for his views on heliocentrism. The absolute proof of this is that he wasn't even excommunicated. Galileo died as a Catholic. His trial, even if performed by the Church, had nothing to do with Church's teaching.
One stupid thing Galileo did was making fun of the pope in his book.
"They weren't OFFICIALLY against it."
That's all that matters
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@DisturbedHavok It sometimes IS used just like that. You're absolutely right on that. And in Catholicism, this goes for progressives AND traditionalists. Well, more for Trads, nowadays, really. Look at the way Marcel Lefebvre, one of the most traditionalist figures the Church has seen in modern times, was excommunicated. Lefebvre was the founder of the S.S.P.X. , by the way.
dizzy365 7 months ago
@DisturbedHavok Can't forget Pius XII, the man who would not speak out explicitly against the German and Soviet genocides. lol Papal Infallibility flt.
MrY0ufail 6 months ago
I've been doing a lot of Bible study...in that I mean the history of the Bible...stories and meanings lost in translation....timeline. It's a freaking mystery.
mand1sh3p 2 years ago
"bible study"- isn't that an oxymoron?
july7nyc 2 years ago 29
maybe to you...I can tell u are typcial condecending smart ass. Like I said I study the bible which includes things that aren't in it...I study ABOUT it. Just b/c someone studys something doesn't mean they believe everything they are told.
mand1sh3p 2 years ago
ok, just take out the "oxy" and there you are. ta-ta!
july7nyc 2 years ago
Clearly you are a willfully ignorant person that is quick to jump into a debate with no real info...how old r u?
mand1sh3p 2 years ago
i'm not "debating" anything. you're the one who is ridiculously defensive. i responded to your judgmental attitude. you comment on a bill maher video about how you "study" the bible and then expect no one to respond? you're clearly baiting and then get all self-righteous when someone actually calls you on it. sorry- i'm done with this "debate." buh-bye.
july7nyc 2 years ago
stfu I didn't say you were debating. I said you are the TYPE to jump into a debate and not know what you are talking about. U are the type to spit an opinion with no foundation. Just hurl a bunch of insults that are irrelevent. I said I study the bible...what's in it and other history about it. All you got to say is that's an oxymoron. That didn't even make sense. Then your next reply was calling me a moron b/c I chose to learn. U r an idiot. Get a life.
mand1sh3p 2 years ago
lol!
july7nyc 2 years ago
@july7nyc We believe the Pope is infallible when he speaks on FAITH or MORALS, NOT SCIENCE.
AdmiralThrawn000 1 year ago
@AdmiralThrawn000 Good for you. What is your point? The pope is a human being. He is fallible. If you want to put your "faith" in him or any imaginary god, that's your right. I don't know what that has to do with me though or my comment.
july7nyc 1 year ago
@july7nyc It is our right to believe whatever we want. But Bill Maher was wrong. The Resurrection was talked about not just in the Gospels, but also in Acts and was talked about by the early Church Fathers, and Peter himself! If you are going to talk about religion, at least arm yourself with knowledge about the subject!
AdmiralThrawn000 1 year ago
@AdmiralThrawn000 as someone who grew up in a Catholic school in Italy, I know my shit. But just for the record, religion is not about knowledge- it's about belief and faith. I'm done. There is no point in engaging in further discussion. You believe in the imaginary and I don't. End of discussion.
july7nyc 1 year ago
@july7nyc Do you really now? Have you read St. Augustine's City of God? Have you read books on systematic theology? Have you read papal encyclicals? Have you armed yourself;f with knowledge about the Eucharist and the Sacraments? There are so many tenets of the Catholic faith that barely anyone has looked up. Faith and reason coincide because the world s intelligible. Everything has been thought into being by a great intelligence who transcends and loves us into existence.
AdmiralThrawn000 1 year ago
@AdmiralThrawn000 And the only records of all of those were recorded decades after the fact, when everyone who had directly heard or seen the basic events of the testament (scratch the magic) was dead, the stories have been altered.
SgtPeppersRevolution 10 months ago
I have been doing the same thing. It is perhaps the world's most fascinating book.
thisismyfunnyname 2 years ago