I'm saying that since fortunately she has never experienced the trauma of rape, that she no business whatsoever telling women who have what to do. Glad she is alive but she is attempting to intrude on other people's precious lives. again I am glad she was not aborted, but she can't tell rape victims shit, because she has not walked a mile in their moccasins.
@gspot823: It has been shown and experienced that having the baby in the case of rape can actually heal the rape scars, that something GOOD came out of it. An abortion on top of a rape is an additional loss / death / trauma. And are you saying that now that Michigan has "wisened up" that is good that a precious person like Rebecca will not be among us ? That is so illogical it boggles the mind. She does have the right to speak and inspire rape victims to choose life. It's best for everyone
she is basing her argument on a false premise. she states because she is the product of rape she has experience that trauma and can counsel other women. False! her MOTHER was raped, not her! she has No business attempting to relate to rape victims, or to judge their decisions in anyway because she has not been in their shoes. glad she has found peace but her mother should have had the ability to abort after rape. ridiculous she wasn't able to, glad Michigan has wiser up.
If she had been aborted she wouldn't know and it would not hurt her. She is a very strange activist, just saw her on Huckabee, she should probably keep her vary rape and abortion talk to herself. hasn't she ever heard of secrets?
It might seem cold, but I believe that Rebecca should have been aborted for several reasons. The main one is this : inside her is the DNA of an immoral person whom God loathes and the righteous man has no patience with. How are we to know that those traits might not be inside her and / or would not be passed to her offspring. Obviously, it is too late to abort her, but not her future offspring. Would she consider being sterilized?
@acchokiefan Yes, you are cold, and probably a very evil person, unless this is one of those really moronic individuals who posts completely stupid things because they have nothing better to do. If this is just a desperate cry for attention I hope you find God's grace and psychological help because you are in desperate need of help even if you don't know it yet.
It's kind of annoying the way she recounts the most unpleasant events in her life with a smile. I mean, I don't expect her to be weeping or anything, but that little frozen smile is just unpleasant.
It would have been better if this woman's mother had had an abortion. I can't imagine what it's like to be a woman who's been brutally raped, feeling a baby growing inside you that's a result of that rape. GET RID OF IT and get on with your life! Do you really think a loving God wants you to have that baby?
The poster child for a rape baby. This video is linked to from anti- choice website. Well god allowed her mom to get raped. Aparently she's ok with that.
@adorima Why don't they talk about all the abused unwanted ones like dumpster babies? I know a lady who's a result of rape and she is still un-easy about it. Even this lady acts uncomfortable a lot talking about it. I know what they should do! Follow the bible! Force the man to marry his victim because now no-one will want the damaged goods. I know that I'm being insensitive but you have to look at all sides of the situation.
My heart is glad is that God delivered this wonderful woman from the lies of the enemy.Being conceived in a loving relationship does not guarantee you to turn into a good person. feeling unworthy is the worst feeling imaginable. I am glad God delivered this woman and is speaking to her heart. The only one who deserves to be resented is the rapist who knowingly hurt someone. Keep yo' head up Mrs. Kiessling. You are of great importance to God.
@xlovexothersxalsox BITCH STOP MOTHERFUCKING TRYING TO MANIPULTE ME INTO FEELING THE WAY YOU DO! IT WILL NOT HAPPEN SO GIVE THE FUCK UP TRYING AND STOP MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF! IF YOU GET RAPED AND GET PREGNANT, YOU CAN DO WHAT EVER THE HELL YOU WANT. THAT IS ON YOU. IT'S NOT MY PLACE TO JUDGE YOU, JUST LIKE IT AIN'T YOUR MOTHERFUCKING PLACE TO KEEP QUSETIONING ME UP AND DOWN ABOUT A COMMENT I MADE WHICH IS IN NO WAY PERTAINING TO YOU.
@xlovexothersxalsox OKAY, SO I GAVE REBECCA THE PROPS SHE IS WELL DESERVING OF FOR COMING TO TERMS WITH THE WAY SHE WAS CONCEIVED AND STILL DOING SOMETHING POSITIVE WITH HER LIFE. THAT DOES NOT MAKE ME AN ADVOCATE FOR RAPE RELATED PREGNANCY AT ALL! NOR DOES THAT DIMINISH WHAT THE RAPIST DID. NO WOMAN IDEALLY DREAMS OF HAVING A CHILD BY ANYONE SHE DOESN'T LIKE, AND I CAN SAY THAT AS A WOMAN. BUT SHOULD REBECCA HAVE TO KISS HER BIRTH MAMA'S ASS? SHOULD SHE DENOUNCE HER OWN PERSONAGE?
@denine231 Rebecca doesn't kiss her mom's ass--she doesn't think of her mom at all. Everything out of her mouth is "i, Me, My"---all she thinks about is Rebecca.
@TheJcanno8 she just said that she has a good relationship with her birth-mother now. she's telling about her life story, of course it's gonna involve "i's, me's, and my's" in it. she's not enemies with her mom. if u have to be in the situation to understand these things.
@xlovexothersxalsox IF I GET RAPED AND DON'T WANT THE CHILD, I CAN'T HELP FEELING THAT WAY AND AM ENTITLED TO MY FEELINGS. HOWEVER, IF FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE CHILD IS BORN, THAT CHILD HAS A RIGHT TO ENJOY HIS/ HER EXISTENCE WITHOUT REGARD TO HOW I GOT PREGNANT WITH IT. A CHILD IS NOT MERELY THE SPAWN OF EITHER OF THE PARENTS, THE CHILD IS HIS/HER OWN UNIQUE PERSON. YOU CAN'T EXPECT SOMEONE LIKE REBECCA TO HATE HERSELF BECAUSE HER MOTHER DIDN'T WANT HER, BUT COULDN'T GET AN ABORTION.
If you need Jesus or God or any religion to feel a sense of self-worth, to feel like you're someone in life, to feel loved, to feel like you matter in life and that you are a great person... Well, what can I say? I feel sorry for you. I'm glad she made peace with herself. I'm really glad. But one does not need God for this. WE have the power to change things. God has nothing to do with this. I know countless atheist people who are very happy without God and religion. I'm one of them! :-))))
1. When have I used profanity? Even if I did profanity is just words. A persons choice of words doesn't validate or invalidate their argument.
2. When have I made accusations?
3. I haven't changed the subject.
4. Neither have you. All you're doing is sharing your opinion and so am I.
5. I haven't demstrated hate for you. Do I dislike you? Yes, I think anyone that would force a woman to carry a rape pregnancy is a horrible and cruel person. But that's just me.
@xlovexothersxalsox Those were not targeted toward you in particular. Your anger has led me to believe that this discussion is not doing any good. So, I will end by saying that I will pray for you to the God that you do not believe in and also that I firmly hold to the belief that a human fetus is human whether conceived in rape or consensual sex. All life is precious and it has meaning, which is the message that i would like to convey. I don't want to upset anyone, I want to celebrate life.
@xlovexothersxalsox I don't dislike you. :( It's sad that you don't even know me. Let me introduce myself (No names though) We'll just call me N. I'm 5'2" I have brown eyes, brown hair and I'm just your average happy-go-lucky girl, who likes to try to help others where I can. I have a little 4 month old who smiles every time he meets someone and he's cute and fat. :) I wear purple glasses, I've never been shy, I lived most of my life by a river and I never had a friend my own age until I was 17.
@TheRealMidori also, did you have the impression I was a women? I am actually a dad and husband to a beautiful family :) Love is real and you have a choice. There is a man for you out there who is willing to sacrifice for you and to truly love you, rather than use you. You are worth it! Don't settle for less and don't buy into the garbage and selfishness you are fed. You have a choice to live a better life. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. Forgivess & Love in sacrifice is the answer :)
@TheRealMidori - There is no doubt the 11 year old will have much suffering, she had been raped and now everyone knows etc. But, the evil has already occured; now she is holding a new life inside her. Killing that life is not good for her nor the unborn child. I wonder how many men have forced their 11 year old to have an abortion to hide the crime they have commited? That is sick.
@TheRealMidori - Would you kill an innocent born child to relieve another childs suffering? Can you imagine what an 11 year would feel like after knowing the unborn child in her, her child, had been cutt up and sucked out of her? You really think that is going to help her deal with her already tragic situation? The baby can be instead allowed to live and be given to a family who would love and care for it. The girl can be happy in knowing something good came from the evil done to her.
@TheRealMidori - We are all a bunch of cells :) The unborn child or fetus is alive, it's a scientific fact. I want to protect ALL children, born or unborn. You don't feel bad about killing it because you don't realize it's worth. Is it because you cannot see the baby or it is so small? Is it because it is inside another person or maybe unwanted? My twin neices are still in their mom's womb and I just witnessed a 30 minute ultrasound of them. They are real and alive and beautiful!
@TheRealMidori - It can be very confusing, especially when we ar fed so much garbage; companies selling us sex, food, so called happiness... its a bunch of selfish lust and all about money. True love is real and takes sacrifice. Do you really believe what the majority rules is what we should follow? What about when the majority believed that slavery was ok? Did that make it ok? I believe that no matter how many people believe slavery is ok, it is never ok. What about you?
@TheRealMidori - I don't know which pro-lifers you are talking about, but they are not the kind I know. What women need is support and love, not hatefull judgment. You are right, there are things better than the sex we are sold. Believe me, I know. Sex should be a loving exchange, one giving to the other, not taking from the other. That is real love making. We are sold quick thrills, selfish lust which is the cause for so much hurt in our world, to women, men and children. Don't buy it!
@TheRealMidori - You have been fed a lie. Our culture tells us children are a burden and get in the way of our selfish dreams. The truth is, children are a gift and teach us to love unconditionally, even when it hurts. That is true love; not quick thrills with regret and being left alone, thrown out like a piece of trash. That is the opposite of love. I don't wish a baby apon an 11 year old, but I do not believe killing the innocent unborn is best for the 11 year old either. She needs love.
@TheRealMidori - i agree, rape is not "natural". and neither is killing your unwanted child. I am glade you don't believe we should all look to animals as our example to living a good and loving life. We are capable of so much more. You are capable of so much more! :)
@TheRealMidori - Rapists are some of the lowest of the low and they are not innocent, one bit. I am glad you believe murder is always wrong; so you do believe that some things are always wrong no matter what others think. I agree. So, are you saying, because an unborn child is younger than a born child, you don't feel bad about killing it?
@TheRealMidori - so you are saying that "right and wrong" is all relative; that it is up to each person to deside that for themselves and there is no real universal "right or wrong." If that is true, how can you say I am wrong? And how can you say that you are right? How can you say that a rapist is wrong, or a murderer or anybody for that matter? Do you believe there is anything out there that is always wrong, even if some people may think it is right?
@TheRealMidori - men especially need to live up to being honorable and good and wait until they are married for sex. I am not saying it is easy, there are not doubt difficulties in living purely. But that does not mean it is impossible. Wouldnt that be a better world? Dosnt premarital sex only bring quick pleasure and joy but with a lot of regret and many negative consequences? Is the quick pleasure of premarital sex really worth all that hurt?
@TheRealMidori - you have a very negative view about your womanhood. I hope that one day you can recognize the gift you have. Yes, I am saying that the unborn child alive in the womb of that girl is innocent, alive and human. That child deserves a right to life. The young girl has already experienced the trauma of her situation. Do you want her to also face the trauma of killing her first child? Abortion is not what that young girl needs, she needs love and support in her suffering.
@TheRealMidori - Sounds like you are saying we should live survival of the fittest to me. Is it going against nature to stop a rapist from forcing sex on women? Couldnt your same argument argue that a rapist is only trying to live out his sexual desire; like animals do? Even in a world full of evil like ours, there is hope and opportunity to love. You can be that difference in the world. There can be joy in this world and it starts with your choice.
@TheRealMidori - I like your last questions and would love to explore it further with you. How do you know what is wrong? Do you have beliefs about right and wrong? Do you believe murder is wrong, why? And what about rape, why is that wrong in your belief system?
@TheRealMidori - being a women is a beautiful thing; a gift. There are no doubt pressures. For those not raped, if you are not ready to have a child, do not have sex. Seems like a shocking suggestion in our day and age but you really do have a choice (unless you are raped). For those who are horribly violated in rape, your motherhood is not ruined. My friend was raped and became pregnant. She gave her child up for adoption and helped a couple find a child to love. It was a beautiful thing.
@TheRealMidori -all the women you described are humans with worth, value and a right to life. I am not saying, as you are about the unborn, that any of these humans should be killed if they are unwanted. I am saying they should allow the living child in their womb the right to life. It is a sad situation you described with a very young girl and my heart goes out to them too; but two wrongs do not make a right. Killing the innocent child in her womb, who is at no fault, is not the answer.
@TheRealMidori are you saying we need to revert to being more like animals? sounds very primitive and uncaring to me. Where is the love in that? I am glad we have moved on from those days. I would love to inspire you to rise above the survival of the fittest mindset into a life of love in giving rather than taking. It's a life of joy, not survival.
@TheRealMidori couldnt I say it would be pretty sick to kill an innocent human being to relieve your suffering? If somone is suicidal, the answer is love, support and counceling, not abortion. Human's in the womb are alive and are really here. Just because you can't see them and hold them does not mean they don't exist. You were once in your mother's womb and you were real and you were human. You deserved a right to life. Let's help and love all human beings from womb to tomb :)
@TheRealMidori - all you said sounds good if abortion didnt equal the killing of an innocent human. Just because you call the unborn child a fetus dosn't mean it is not a human with a right to life. Also with your logic, it would be better to kill infants as well if they are unwanted. Being unwanted has nothing to do with a human's right to life.
@TheRealMidori Hello and thanks for the comment. I agree; it is not seen as good by many, especially in cases of rape. However, that does not reduce the fact that there is another human life involved with the decision to abort; the innocent unborn child. Even though suffering is involved in bringing an unwanted baby to birth from a rape, it would be wrong and unjust to kill an innocent human life to relieve that suffering. Thanks.
You are a crack pot. To say that the worst part of being raped is the abortion, to attest that rape victims should keep an unwanted rape pregnancy, and to support a bill that will attempt to make this law shows how utterly whacked you are. You should not be taken seriously about anything, you are daft.
@Elenkhos rebecca is part of rape culture. she is supporting the subjugation of women who have already been victimized by makign herself into a martyr when she is not the victim. she has no right to dictate that women become broodmares because she likes her life
@Elenkhos The DNA of a human fetus is human DNA, whether conceived in rape or consensual sex. Have you ever met someone conceived in rape or someone who was the victim of rape? If not then I recommend the book "Victim or Victors." I work for a Crisis Pregnancy Center and we have taken in several rape victims in the past. All who chose adoption found healing and they were able to move on with their lives. All who chose abortion came back for post-abortion support.
@pinklady292 And what's your point? It's good that someone has enough courage to keep an unwanted pregnancy from a trauma, I know someone that did that, and she kept the baby herself, that's real courage, but not all women have that courage, nor should a bill be foisted on them that makes them have a child they do not want.
@Elenkhos My point is that abortion does have its traumatizing side effects and that the unborn are human and they are alive. True, not all women have the courage to handle difficult situations but does that mean that life loses its value if it is in the hands of an unsteady individual? Should we allow theft to be legalized because there are poor people out there that use theft as a resource? The fact of the matter is that abortion is a moral issue much more than a political one.
@Elenkhos Women have resources at their fingertips. Look in the phone book under "abortion alternatives" or "maternity homes." These resources exist for the very purpose of promoting life and providing women with help and assistance in all situations. I'm not heartless towards abused women, being that I am a woman and I suffered sexual abuse. My situation has given me a passion and a purpose to help women. I can't encourage any woman to abort, knowing the side effects. Adoption is underrated.
@pinklady292 Yea, well YOU say it's underrated, tell that to the millions of children in custody of the government who are not adopted who spend their entire life in foster care. It appears to me that this Christian attitude toward "life" only extends to the unborn, once born, toss them in the trash. If Christians are so big on adoption let them step up first and adopt the millions of kids that need it now.
@Elenkhos Ah...so, being in the custody of the government is worse than being dead? There are children in foster homes that are doing quite well. (I know some foster parents) There are also children in the homes of their birth parents and they are suffering abuse, neglect and many other things. The fact is that adoption isn't the magic potion and I'm not saying that. But to abort a child is to kill a child. I can't justify abortion because there are negative cases out there.
@Elenkhos Also, many birth parents are Christian...hence the Christian adoption agency. I know many people who step up to the plate and take care of foster or adopted children...and they are all Christian. I know that they're out there but I still have yet to meet or know of a secular adoptive parent...aside from Angelina Jolie. Christians are for adoption, considering that we have been adopted into God's family because of the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ.
@Elenkhos Oh...and children that are not adopted don't spend their entire lives in foster care. Once they turn 18 they can strike out on their own. At that point they can make their own decisions.
@pinklady292 Ok I'll rephrase it, the spend the ENTIRE child hood in foster care, and whow what a big advantage to be in foster care being dumped from house to house on a whim, having no real family, leaving friends and schools behind constantly without warning. The average foster child gets replaced no less than 20 times before they are 18 .. do you know what you are talking about, but I know you don't care either, it's about your shit agenda to push your religious values down peoples throats.
@Elenkhos Have I at any time stated "you must follow my religion"? I find it laughable that every time (it never fails) that someone disagrees with me on any subject at all they say that I'm pushing my opinions on them. It sounds like a weak excuse. As far as I can tell I only mentioned once out of my many posts that I believe in the adoption into the family of God. If the very thought of love and acceptance bothers you then I feel very sorry for you.
@pinklady292 When in Africa the wilderbeast HERD crosses a river, all the other animals move out of the way, you can't claim individuality when you are part of the sheeple
@Elenkhos I beg your pardon? If you are referring to the fact that I'm religious then I could also state that there are many animals that do not stay in a herd. They do not have the safety of the herd either. But I'm not an animal...hence why I'm typing on a computer.
@Elenkhos Oh...I am an individual...considering that I have my own separate identity from any other human on this planet. You make very blanket statements. So, now you are trying to impose you secular state of mind on me? (Since I should use your logic) I am religious...so what makes what I have to say any less relevant?
@Elenkhos I know families who have taken in foster children and they do not lack for love. I know children who have lived with their birth families and they were abused. Adoption has its pros and cons as does parenting but the point at the very core of my debate is that adoption is a much better alternative than abortion. Adoption does not violate one simple moral law "thou shalt not kill." Also, abortion wouldn't be "needed" if another moral law were followed "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
@pinklady292 I would not spend 9 months pregnant to have a child and give it away to satisfy pro lifers. You are really overestimating your importance in other people's lives. For one thing the field I want to work in (investment banking) is a very competitive and driven field with long hours. I'll barely have time to sleep wouldn't have time to go on maternity leave. And I'm not sacrificing a possible 1.5 - 5 million dollar a year paycheck to satisfy the dreams of strangers. -continued-
@xlovexothersxalsox Then you are a very selfish person. Is that all your concerned about? Taking care of #1? You are shallow. I have a baby. He has not ruined my life. Oh, and if you don't want a baby then don't have sex. If you have respect for your body then you have the right to demand respect from other people. I didn't have sex until after I was married._ My husband and I are doing well. Knowing that I've loved one man and he has only loved me has been a sturdy foundation for our marriage.
@xlovexothersxalsox If you don't want to give up a child there is no pressure to do so. There are certainly many good alternatives. I'm not important. I have changed no one, I have helped no one, only God has. In and of myself I'm_ no different from any other human being on the face of this planet...but because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and because of the Grace of God I am righteous before him...my righteousness is not my own but it comes from the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
@pinklady292 I'm an atheist. Christianity is irrelevant. I don't have to justify it the supreme court did.
Am I selfish person because I have career goals that don't consist of staying at home and taking care of kids? I suppose so and I'm perfectly fine with it.
And I can have sex whenever and with whoever I want. That's none of your business. You have a family and are doing well? Great, but just because I'm a female doesn't mean I want a family or marriage. FWB is fine with me.
@xlovexothersxalsox I didn't try to tell you when and where to have sex. :) I simply told you that I have a good marriage. I've been happily married for three years now with a man who treats me well and works hard to support and protect his household. :) I'm not trying to make you angry. See, I'm an extremely jealous person. If my husband had slept around before we were married it would have hurt me badly. Staying monogamous has its benefits but I'm not saying that it's the magic potion.
@xlovexothersxalsox Well, it's kind of true. Sex is procreation along with pleasure and bonding of two people. The design for bonding is between a husband and wife. Whether you believe that or not is your decision, but for me I could not have sex outside of the context of marriage and believe that it was moral. I'm all for birth control...but I do believe that there are certain moral contexts for sexuality. Marriage between one man and one woman.
@pinklady292 Oh, yeah. And another thing. About marriage... You ALSO don't get to decide which couples will or will not get their civil rights. I'm a lesbian. And one day I will marry the woman of my life. There's nothing you can do that will change that. Marriage is a civil contract between 2 consenting adults. Churches can define marriage the way they want. NOT a SECULAR government.
(1) And you know, I've read your "arguments" and you STILL hasn't provided any sort of justification about why abortions must be banned. Like all anti-choicers I've debated so far. Not ONE of them has successfully demonstrated to me why THEIR views should prevail. It's always the same thing: it's their way or the highway. I can't say I'm too impressed by this fascist argumentation.
(2) Millions of women in the U.S. and around the world think that abortions are moral and justifiable. Quite a few of us even think abortion right is a human right. There are many reasons behind this belief, first and foremost being that lack of abortion access harms and kills women. Whether you are swayed by this argument or not is beyond the point. The point is that you don't get to make choices for all of us women out there because of your narrow and selfish views.
@xlovexothersxalsox What are you trying to justify? What are you even debating against? Once again it sounds like you are trying to say that murder is acceptable because there are negative situations_ in this world. We've been over this.
@Elenkhos The advantage of adoption still beats death any day. Ask any child and see if they would rather be dead. I do care...but trying to convince you of that would be futile...considering that you don't know me and you have already determined who and what I am in your own mind. :) Don't judge a book by its cover...you have no idea what volunteer work I have done...and how much I love and care for any and every one who comes to me for help. :)
It's sad to see selfish individuals pushing their own private beliefs on every one of us. And WHY is it that women's needs, desires, aspirations, and their traumatic experience of rape is not taken into account? People like her disgust me beyond words. Not to mention that they play dangerous games with women's lives. Don't want an abortion? Don't get one. It's not a hard concept to understand. And I'm not quite sure why the fetus should have super-rights trumping mines...
@Skulander1 Don't like murder? Don't kill. If only it were that easy but it's not. We oppose abortion because it takes away the life of a child. If you don't want to read the private beliefs of other people then don't get on a public sight. It's that easy. Instead of complaining why don't you state what you believe in?
@pinklady292 What child? What murder? Simply babbling your religious beliefs and forcing your views on all women out there doesn't make them true nor gives them the moral authority to decide what grown up women should do. So yep. Abortion. If I get pregnant and I don't want to be you betcha I'll have an abortion in less time it takes you to read this. I don't CARE what you think of my choices and whether or not you think women should enjoy reproductive freedom. YOU don't get to decide for all.
@Skulander1 Also, the woman has been put first in over 50 million cases. What about the life of the child? Shall we murder to provide "women's needs, desires, aspirations?" Shall we murder because it is justified in rape cases? Abortionists play dangerous games with women's lives. There have been countless botched abortions and deaths due to the medical form of rape.
@pinklady292 woman has been put first in over 50 million cases.
As they should be.
Shall we murder because it is justified in rape cases? Abortionists play dangerous games with women's lives. There have been countless botched abortions and deaths due to the medical form of rape.
All surgeries have risks. Abortion is no exception. If you think abortion is a form of rape than I suggest you look up the correct term. More women have died in childbirth then abortions.
God gives life.... I think Rebecca's point is that, you never know what God has in store for that little person inside you. I dont think it would be easy to do, but theres a reason for everything. And a baby is NOT part of a womans body...
@jwill151 a reason for everything? that has been the excuse to justify every atrocity in history. no, the reason this happened is because some sick freak decided to violate an innocent woman. GOD has in store? she is not the savior of mankind. the world would go on without her as it would with me. her mother had every right to an abortion as did mine
I find it humorous that all people that advocate and protect abortion were born. They were given the right to exist and to be given the chance that their mother gave them, to experience life. Put yourself in the baby/fetus' perspective; would you want to live or to simply never get the chance? Theoretically if I went back in time and convinced your mothers to abort you , then you would not exist and that would be perfectly fine.
You got the right to live, why not you unborn child?
So you have no problem killing a person, not only a person, but a person who could potentially be your son or daughter, who is a part of you? Can I ask why you don't want any children?
So you should kill a baby conceived in rape because of the circumstances? Why finish something horrible with something equally as bad? Why not make a horror story into the ultimate love story by keeping the baby? Or if it hurts to much, give he/she up for adoption. And she wasn't saying Jews are horrible people, her adoptive parents were at her wedding too. She was saying she wasn't fitting in anywhere...
I said nothing about satisfying others, including me. I said why would you kill YOUR child. Regardless of whether you believe it's a blob of tissue or a baby, "it" has the potential to be a human being, and when you abort that future child, you are killing your own baby. Do you think you would have great mental health if you killed your own child? A baby does not ruin your life, in fact, he/she makes your life so much better.
@mksimms11 A baby makes your life better if you actually want said baby but I don't. Anyway, no I don't have kids. And risking my fertility would be a risk that I would be more then willing to take.
Your youtube username is love others also...I wonder why you don't also love these children who are being killed where it should be their safest place in the world. And there are people who thought they didn't want a baby, and when they saw them, they fell in love. If you are so inclined, look up the Silent No More website. They have women on their who speak about their abortions. Maybe that will show you that it doesn't help their mental health to abort their children.
@mksimms11 I don't believe a fetus is a child first and foremost. I've read stories of women who regret their abortions. My heart goes out to them. But I've also read stories about women who believed there abortion was the best thing they ever did.
@xlovexothersxalsox If you are referring to the risk of infertility caused by abortion I wouldn't take it so lightly. There are other side effects. -Increased chance of breast cancer -Increased chance of contracting an STD and the list goes on. If you don't want children then why don't you consider having your tubes tied? Rather than the cost of having regular abortions you could pay once to have no chance whatsoever of getting pregnant.
@mksimms11 it doesnt matter if YOU personally think a baby doesnt ruin someone's life. the fact of the matter is having children can, has and DOES ruin it for some people.
@xlovexothersxalsox Or, if you don't want your "life ruined" you could always give up your baby for adoption. Have you had any children? And did you know that getting abortions can hurt your ability to have children in the future?
In case you have forgotten, you talk about forced pregnancies. Now rape is forced upon someone. But pregnancy IS NOT FORCED ON WOMEN! Women DO NOT have to have birth control if they DO NOT have sex. The "choice" your speaking of should've been made BEFORE she CHOSE to get pregnant. I am sick of people saying they have to have birth control, or what...you can't have sex with a man you just met, get pregnant and then get rid of your "Consequences?"
I wasn't talking about those who have been raped. Those who are raped in my opinion should still keep their baby or at least give it up for adoption. But you are saying that you've known women who said their abortion was the best thing they ever did? For who? It certainly wasn't in the best interest of the child, because they didn't get a "choice" in the matter. I was also looking at your youtube videos that you've uploaded. That's where I got your term "forced pregnancies."
@xlovexothersxalsox Why should you kill the baby? Just because the mother of the baby doesn't want it, doesn't mean another couple don't and would gladly take the child in? As horrible and traumatic as rape is, there is no justification for killing an innocent baby.
@EmilyGreene1984 Well let's see. A fetus has no legal rights to a womans uterus. Not everyone can handle a pregnancy due to rape. So yes there is justification.
@EmilyGreene1984 "just" because she doesnt want it? your comments are as trivializing as palin's "less than ideal" tag. and no there arnt and never will be enough parents. even if there were, that doesnt obligate a woman to have a child against her will for others to take. women arnt slaves to their fertility at least not in the civlized world
Not according to merriem webster. =) a an adult female person b a woman belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation)usually used in combination "councilwoman"
2womankind
3 distinctively feminine nature : womanliness
4 a woman who is a servant or personal attendant
Special emphasis on ADULT female person. Sorry fetuses but your disqualified.
@xlovexothersxalsox - From Wikipedia "A woman (pl: women) is a female human. The term woman is usually reserved for an adult, with the term girl being the usual term for a female child or adolescent. However, the term woman is also sometimes used to identify a female human, regardless of age, as in phrases such as "Women's rights".
It really was a war tactic. Part of conquering foreign lands was raping/impregnating the women. It destroyed the community emotionally and destroyed the men's morale. It was unfortunately common practice. Something you would like to see made into law. I can send you stories of this happening recently if you'd like.
@xlovexothersxalsox - thanks for what you are meaning by war tactic. In those cases, yes, that is obviously a war tactic, no doubt. Rape is horrible and evil. So is murder. One does not cancel out the other.
rape victim should have no say in what happens to her body. What are you going to tell her? Oh you should have thought of that before you got a vagina?Most pro lifers I get along well with and while we don't agree on everything we usually agree in this aspect. This is a hell of a sensitive topic for me and I can only take so much. For someone who has ever been in this situation to sit and dictate what this woman must do takes a lot of nerve. And to go so far as to say she deserves JAILTIME?
@xlovexothersxalsox - yes, she should have a say over her body; but not to the point of killing another body. - I am going to tell her there is hope and something good can come of the evil that happened to her. I would also explain the emotional trauma that would occure after the abortion and the scar that would leave on her life. There is always hope and making a decision to love, even when suffering is involved, is always the right descision. I dont think my friend will ever regret...
@MacDubhsith there is hope ad something good? who the heck are you to tell her what that hope entails? get over yourself!! decision? you dont want there to be a decision. you want the "decision" made for her!! your friend had a choice as should all women. you want to know what would leave trauma? YOU, a complete stranger, making the choice for her!!
@leiapeison - yes, there is hope, whether I say it or not. There is always hope. There is always a decision no matter what the law says. One has free will to break the law. We all have a choice. You obviously don't believe the unborn child has a right to anything so this is influencing your belief in this matter. I believe the unborn child has rights to life, even if his/her father wis a rapist.
@MacDubhsith it is not for you to decide where that hope should come from. your only agenda is bringing women back to the days when they had no control over their fertility and by extension their lives. break the law? yeah and spend decades in jail. but i guess it would be better than living in the jail you would have her spend in. the jail that has become her own life thanks to your warped perceptions of what is moral
@leiapeison - There is only one source of hope. leiapeison; I appreciate the discussion; can you please describe what your beliefs are concerning abortion and the law including in cases of rape etc. It is easier to debate when I know where you stand. I am not sure if you are talking about abortion in general or only in cases of rape etc. thanks
@MacDubhsith every woman has a right to terminate. it should be up to the woman. end of story. dont like it? i dont know what to tell you. im not here to breed for the world. adoption does not help all women. it is up to her to decide what she can handle. and you have NOOO right to make this decision for her. it isnt about protecting anything with you people. it is about your lunatic dogma and your inability to let it go
@leiapeison - you have an idealogy; that a woman has complet rights over her reproduction which includes killing her unborn child if she wants. This is your dogma. The point of this debate or discussion, in my opinion, is for each of us to present the best and most convincing case for their side. If you dont know what to tell me, than how can you expect any progress in convincing me?
Dosnt your statment seem pretty dogmatic "every woman has a right to terminate.. end of story.."
@MacDubhsith do you even understand dogma? i am not sanctioning that every woman have an abortion or that they are even made to. obviously it is a choice. it is not the choice for every woman but it is the right choice for some women. they cant have it both ways. the unborn will never have rights over those who are already engaged in life. you will never understand this i know, but i guess i am just a die hard optimist
@leiapeison - Dogma is defined as " the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioner or believers" Your Ideology has a Dogma; that a woman has full rights over the entirety of her reproduction which can include the killing of her unborn child. You said "every woman has a right to terminate. it should be up to the woman. end of story." Sure sounds dogmatic to me.
@leiapeison - My dogma is that a person deserves a right to life from conception to natural death. Your dogma is that a woman has the right to abort her unborn child. Your dogma allows for the taking of an innocent human life. My dogma allows for the mental and or physical suffering of a woman to carry a child to birth. I aknowledge there can be suffering involved with my dogma but you do not aknowledge the innocent life that must be shed at the cost of yours.
@MacDubhsith my dogma? i am not forcing it on people. i am not making laws saying women have to abort. i acknowledge that a biological organism dies in an abortion. i never denied that. what i am saying is that it doesnt and it cant have the same rights as a woman without stripping her of her dignity
@leiapeison - Your dogma does not force adult women; it forces unborn women to die by the will of their mother. YOU are not forcing them to die, but your dogma allows adult women to force their unborn daughters to die.
Also, a belief does not have to be "forced" to be a dogma. A dogma is simply a belief that is believed to be undisputable, without compromise and held stubbornly. What kind of organism dies in an abortion?
Abortion gives women dignity? What does it give unborn women?
Respond to this video... @MacDubhsith What does it give unborn women?
nborn women is an oxymoron. For starters a woman is an adult female. Second at the time of most abortions te fetus doesn't have genitals so it's sexless.
what about when they are full term; the same size as a newborn.
She never tried to justify something like that. That's a connection you keep trying to make.
@xlovexothersxalsox - Woman can be difined as any female. So, if i were castrated, would I be sexless? Genetically, each person is either XX or XY from conception.
I am trying to show you that the arguments you are making can be used to justify killing of unborn children througout a pregnancy as well as a support for infanticide.
@MacDubhsith I am trying to show you that the arguments you are making can be used to justify killing of unborn children througout a pregnancy as well as a support for infanticide.
An infant can think. A fetus after 9 weeks can think. I think I came up with a pretty fair compromise for pro life and pro choice. Key word COMPROMISE
Fetuses don't suffer Women get a chance to choose. Everybody wins.
@xlovexothersxalsox - This discussion may become a lot more productive if we focus in on the fundamental difference in belief we have. I believe that the begining of human life is fertilization or conception. At this point, a new and unique human being exist. I believe when there is a unique human being involved, they deserve a basic right to life. All these arguments boil down to is WHEN a human being deserves a right to life. You say 9 weeks. I say conception. - continued next-
@xlovexothersxalsox - continued from above - You give the reason for 9 weeks because that is when you say the child can think and feel, so you do not believe it right to inflict pain and suffering on the child. I say, from conception because, I do not believe thinking and feeling are the qualifiers for rights to life, I believe that simply being a genetically unique human being gives a human the basic right to life. This is what I would like to convince you of.
@MacDubhsith This is what I would like to convince you of.
Well that will not happen. What you won't admit is that basically you are doing this for You not the fetus. The fetus doesn't care if it's aborted. It can't think. You want it to end because You don't like it and it doesn't coincide with YOUR beliefs. This is really about YOU not the fetus.
@xlovexothersxalsox - You are free to believe what you want about my intensions. I know why I am doing this. I am doing this because it is the right thing to do; though it may be unpopular or bring critisism to me. I do it because I believe there is something sacred about human life and the minute we start saying, "this human deserves to live but this one dosnt" we fail to be human, we become like animals; survival of the fittest.
@MacDubhsith "this human deserves to live but this one dosnt" we fail to be human, we become like animals; survival of the fittest.
We already do that.
I believe there is something sacred about human life
I believe their is something sacred about the quality of human life. The "sacredness" of something is between you and your God. Not the lawmakers of this country.
@xlovexothersxalsox - so, based on the narrowing in of the argument; the only progress I think we can make here, is if we produce arguments to support our belief about WHEN a human deserves a right to life.
At what age do you believe a Human deserves a right to life?
Ask the former director of a Planned Parenthood in Texas, who witnessed an ultrasound-guided abortion, if the "fetus" she was looking at as it died wasn't suffering. I will pray for you xlove that you see that it's not a blob of tissue, it is a human. God has already created him/her in His image, and He made you too, and he loves you. God bless.
@MacDubhsith my mom had a right to abort embryo me as much as your mother had a right. my life didnt come first and i had no real interest at that point. my mom had a right to control her destiny and any children's destiny that would come from her. dont like it? too bad. it isnt my problem that you think you have a need to exist at your mothers expense.
What does coming first have to do with anything? Does an infant even have the ability for higher thought like that? Should the right to control ones Destiny give one the right to end the life of another human being? When you say it isn't your problem I am a bit confused; you are the one who originally attacked my positive post on here while I continue trying to defend it. If it isnt your problem, why continue to attack my belief? Who are you trying to convince?
@MacDubhsith you position IS my problem because your position is a mysoginist controlling one. you CANT give rights to the unborn without harming the born because accidental conceptions happen. there needs to be a backup plan for people whose contraception failed in order for them to have complete control over their fertility. there is no point in having the right to life if you are born a slave and that is what your position makes of women. makes them slaves to being mothers
@leiapeison So it is your problem? You really think I am a mysoginist? What about the thousands of women who agree with me, are they mysoginistic as well? Painting me this way makes about as much sense as if I was trying to paint you as a bloodthirsty baby killer, with a hatred for the unborn. I don't believe that and I dont argue as if you were in this extreme. Is it easier for you to think of me as a hateful, controlling pig of a man? I think the name calling says more about you than me.
@MacDubhsith did you not read what i wrote? why are you trying to save embryos that might not even want it? i already stated that my mom had a right to abort me at that most primitive of stages. it would have been her right. get used to it
@leiapeison how do you know what an embryo wants? Just because something is currently legal and a right does not mean it is morally right. History has shown us that over and over. You have a philosophy, an ideal, that women's rights are so ultimate that they can even cancel out the rights of other human beings. I am all for women's rights but I am also all for human rights. Women's rights shouldnt stomp out the right to life. I am not alone, millions of women agree.
I'm saying that since fortunately she has never experienced the trauma of rape, that she no business whatsoever telling women who have what to do. Glad she is alive but she is attempting to intrude on other people's precious lives. again I am glad she was not aborted, but she can't tell rape victims shit, because she has not walked a mile in their moccasins.
gspot823 1 week ago
@gspot823: It has been shown and experienced that having the baby in the case of rape can actually heal the rape scars, that something GOOD came out of it. An abortion on top of a rape is an additional loss / death / trauma. And are you saying that now that Michigan has "wisened up" that is good that a precious person like Rebecca will not be among us ? That is so illogical it boggles the mind. She does have the right to speak and inspire rape victims to choose life. It's best for everyone
purnapoosmom 1 week ago
she is basing her argument on a false premise. she states because she is the product of rape she has experience that trauma and can counsel other women. False! her MOTHER was raped, not her! she has No business attempting to relate to rape victims, or to judge their decisions in anyway because she has not been in their shoes. glad she has found peace but her mother should have had the ability to abort after rape. ridiculous she wasn't able to, glad Michigan has wiser up.
gspot823 1 week ago
If she had been aborted she wouldn't know and it would not hurt her. She is a very strange activist, just saw her on Huckabee, she should probably keep her vary rape and abortion talk to herself. hasn't she ever heard of secrets?
gspot823 1 week ago
It might seem cold, but I believe that Rebecca should have been aborted for several reasons. The main one is this : inside her is the DNA of an immoral person whom God loathes and the righteous man has no patience with. How are we to know that those traits might not be inside her and / or would not be passed to her offspring. Obviously, it is too late to abort her, but not her future offspring. Would she consider being sterilized?
acchokiefan 1 week ago
@acchokiefan Yes, you are cold, and probably a very evil person, unless this is one of those really moronic individuals who posts completely stupid things because they have nothing better to do. If this is just a desperate cry for attention I hope you find God's grace and psychological help because you are in desperate need of help even if you don't know it yet.
robnoftz 1 week ago
People who are pro choice do not seriously understand the magnitude of abortion.
GregariousGorilla 1 week ago
It's kind of annoying the way she recounts the most unpleasant events in her life with a smile. I mean, I don't expect her to be weeping or anything, but that little frozen smile is just unpleasant.
TheJcanno8 2 months ago
@TheJcanno8 she smiles cuz she sees the brighter side of her life now. she's not being self-righteous.
TheFenianWarrior 2 months ago
@TheJcanno8 thumbed down. You are very unappreciative of the horror that she had to go through. Try not to be so judgmental of other people.
GregariousGorilla 1 week ago
It would have been better if this woman's mother had had an abortion. I can't imagine what it's like to be a woman who's been brutally raped, feeling a baby growing inside you that's a result of that rape. GET RID OF IT and get on with your life! Do you really think a loving God wants you to have that baby?
cufflink44 2 months ago
The poster child for a rape baby. This video is linked to from anti- choice website. Well god allowed her mom to get raped. Aparently she's ok with that.
Mammothviking 3 months ago
@Mammothviking Way to miss the point.
adorima 3 months ago
@adorima Why don't they talk about all the abused unwanted ones like dumpster babies? I know a lady who's a result of rape and she is still un-easy about it. Even this lady acts uncomfortable a lot talking about it. I know what they should do! Follow the bible! Force the man to marry his victim because now no-one will want the damaged goods. I know that I'm being insensitive but you have to look at all sides of the situation.
Mammothviking 3 months ago
My heart is glad is that God delivered this wonderful woman from the lies of the enemy.Being conceived in a loving relationship does not guarantee you to turn into a good person. feeling unworthy is the worst feeling imaginable. I am glad God delivered this woman and is speaking to her heart. The only one who deserves to be resented is the rapist who knowingly hurt someone. Keep yo' head up Mrs. Kiessling. You are of great importance to God.
denine231 5 months ago 2
@denine231 But I guess her mom isn't huh?
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox Her MOM is the woman who raised her and provided for her.
denine231 4 months ago
@denine231 Oh scuse me. So I guess her biological MOM is just a bitch that got raped and bred huh?
I sur
xlovexothersxalsox 4 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox BITCH STOP MOTHERFUCKING TRYING TO MANIPULTE ME INTO FEELING THE WAY YOU DO! IT WILL NOT HAPPEN SO GIVE THE FUCK UP TRYING AND STOP MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF! IF YOU GET RAPED AND GET PREGNANT, YOU CAN DO WHAT EVER THE HELL YOU WANT. THAT IS ON YOU. IT'S NOT MY PLACE TO JUDGE YOU, JUST LIKE IT AIN'T YOUR MOTHERFUCKING PLACE TO KEEP QUSETIONING ME UP AND DOWN ABOUT A COMMENT I MADE WHICH IS IN NO WAY PERTAINING TO YOU.
denine231 4 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox OKAY, SO I GAVE REBECCA THE PROPS SHE IS WELL DESERVING OF FOR COMING TO TERMS WITH THE WAY SHE WAS CONCEIVED AND STILL DOING SOMETHING POSITIVE WITH HER LIFE. THAT DOES NOT MAKE ME AN ADVOCATE FOR RAPE RELATED PREGNANCY AT ALL! NOR DOES THAT DIMINISH WHAT THE RAPIST DID. NO WOMAN IDEALLY DREAMS OF HAVING A CHILD BY ANYONE SHE DOESN'T LIKE, AND I CAN SAY THAT AS A WOMAN. BUT SHOULD REBECCA HAVE TO KISS HER BIRTH MAMA'S ASS? SHOULD SHE DENOUNCE HER OWN PERSONAGE?
denine231 4 months ago
@denine231 Rebecca doesn't kiss her mom's ass--she doesn't think of her mom at all. Everything out of her mouth is "i, Me, My"---all she thinks about is Rebecca.
TheJcanno8 2 months ago
@TheJcanno8 she just said that she has a good relationship with her birth-mother now. she's telling about her life story, of course it's gonna involve "i's, me's, and my's" in it. she's not enemies with her mom. if u have to be in the situation to understand these things.
TheFenianWarrior 2 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox IF I GET RAPED AND DON'T WANT THE CHILD, I CAN'T HELP FEELING THAT WAY AND AM ENTITLED TO MY FEELINGS. HOWEVER, IF FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE CHILD IS BORN, THAT CHILD HAS A RIGHT TO ENJOY HIS/ HER EXISTENCE WITHOUT REGARD TO HOW I GOT PREGNANT WITH IT. A CHILD IS NOT MERELY THE SPAWN OF EITHER OF THE PARENTS, THE CHILD IS HIS/HER OWN UNIQUE PERSON. YOU CAN'T EXPECT SOMEONE LIKE REBECCA TO HATE HERSELF BECAUSE HER MOTHER DIDN'T WANT HER, BUT COULDN'T GET AN ABORTION.
denine231 4 months ago 2
If you need Jesus or God or any religion to feel a sense of self-worth, to feel like you're someone in life, to feel loved, to feel like you matter in life and that you are a great person... Well, what can I say? I feel sorry for you. I'm glad she made peace with herself. I'm really glad. But one does not need God for this. WE have the power to change things. God has nothing to do with this. I know countless atheist people who are very happy without God and religion. I'm one of them! :-))))
Skulander1 5 months ago
Five ways to determine a weak argument:
1.) Profanity
2.) Accusations with no evidence
3.) Changing the subject
4.) Bringing no information to the table
5.) Demonstrating hate for the opponent
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292
1. When have I used profanity? Even if I did profanity is just words. A persons choice of words doesn't validate or invalidate their argument.
2. When have I made accusations?
3. I haven't changed the subject.
4. Neither have you. All you're doing is sharing your opinion and so am I.
5. I haven't demstrated hate for you. Do I dislike you? Yes, I think anyone that would force a woman to carry a rape pregnancy is a horrible and cruel person. But that's just me.
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox Those were not targeted toward you in particular. Your anger has led me to believe that this discussion is not doing any good. So, I will end by saying that I will pray for you to the God that you do not believe in and also that I firmly hold to the belief that a human fetus is human whether conceived in rape or consensual sex. All life is precious and it has meaning, which is the message that i would like to convey. I don't want to upset anyone, I want to celebrate life.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox I don't dislike you. :( It's sad that you don't even know me. Let me introduce myself (No names though) We'll just call me N. I'm 5'2" I have brown eyes, brown hair and I'm just your average happy-go-lucky girl, who likes to try to help others where I can. I have a little 4 month old who smiles every time he meets someone and he's cute and fat. :) I wear purple glasses, I've never been shy, I lived most of my life by a river and I never had a friend my own age until I was 17.
pinklady292 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
@TheRealMidori also, did you have the impression I was a women? I am actually a dad and husband to a beautiful family :) Love is real and you have a choice. There is a man for you out there who is willing to sacrifice for you and to truly love you, rather than use you. You are worth it! Don't settle for less and don't buy into the garbage and selfishness you are fed. You have a choice to live a better life. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. Forgivess & Love in sacrifice is the answer :)
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - There is no doubt the 11 year old will have much suffering, she had been raped and now everyone knows etc. But, the evil has already occured; now she is holding a new life inside her. Killing that life is not good for her nor the unborn child. I wonder how many men have forced their 11 year old to have an abortion to hide the crime they have commited? That is sick.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - Would you kill an innocent born child to relieve another childs suffering? Can you imagine what an 11 year would feel like after knowing the unborn child in her, her child, had been cutt up and sucked out of her? You really think that is going to help her deal with her already tragic situation? The baby can be instead allowed to live and be given to a family who would love and care for it. The girl can be happy in knowing something good came from the evil done to her.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - We are all a bunch of cells :) The unborn child or fetus is alive, it's a scientific fact. I want to protect ALL children, born or unborn. You don't feel bad about killing it because you don't realize it's worth. Is it because you cannot see the baby or it is so small? Is it because it is inside another person or maybe unwanted? My twin neices are still in their mom's womb and I just witnessed a 30 minute ultrasound of them. They are real and alive and beautiful!
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - It can be very confusing, especially when we ar fed so much garbage; companies selling us sex, food, so called happiness... its a bunch of selfish lust and all about money. True love is real and takes sacrifice. Do you really believe what the majority rules is what we should follow? What about when the majority believed that slavery was ok? Did that make it ok? I believe that no matter how many people believe slavery is ok, it is never ok. What about you?
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - I don't know which pro-lifers you are talking about, but they are not the kind I know. What women need is support and love, not hatefull judgment. You are right, there are things better than the sex we are sold. Believe me, I know. Sex should be a loving exchange, one giving to the other, not taking from the other. That is real love making. We are sold quick thrills, selfish lust which is the cause for so much hurt in our world, to women, men and children. Don't buy it!
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - You have been fed a lie. Our culture tells us children are a burden and get in the way of our selfish dreams. The truth is, children are a gift and teach us to love unconditionally, even when it hurts. That is true love; not quick thrills with regret and being left alone, thrown out like a piece of trash. That is the opposite of love. I don't wish a baby apon an 11 year old, but I do not believe killing the innocent unborn is best for the 11 year old either. She needs love.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - i agree, rape is not "natural". and neither is killing your unwanted child. I am glade you don't believe we should all look to animals as our example to living a good and loving life. We are capable of so much more. You are capable of so much more! :)
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - Rapists are some of the lowest of the low and they are not innocent, one bit. I am glad you believe murder is always wrong; so you do believe that some things are always wrong no matter what others think. I agree. So, are you saying, because an unborn child is younger than a born child, you don't feel bad about killing it?
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - so you are saying that "right and wrong" is all relative; that it is up to each person to deside that for themselves and there is no real universal "right or wrong." If that is true, how can you say I am wrong? And how can you say that you are right? How can you say that a rapist is wrong, or a murderer or anybody for that matter? Do you believe there is anything out there that is always wrong, even if some people may think it is right?
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
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MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - men especially need to live up to being honorable and good and wait until they are married for sex. I am not saying it is easy, there are not doubt difficulties in living purely. But that does not mean it is impossible. Wouldnt that be a better world? Dosnt premarital sex only bring quick pleasure and joy but with a lot of regret and many negative consequences? Is the quick pleasure of premarital sex really worth all that hurt?
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - you have a very negative view about your womanhood. I hope that one day you can recognize the gift you have. Yes, I am saying that the unborn child alive in the womb of that girl is innocent, alive and human. That child deserves a right to life. The young girl has already experienced the trauma of her situation. Do you want her to also face the trauma of killing her first child? Abortion is not what that young girl needs, she needs love and support in her suffering.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - Sounds like you are saying we should live survival of the fittest to me. Is it going against nature to stop a rapist from forcing sex on women? Couldnt your same argument argue that a rapist is only trying to live out his sexual desire; like animals do? Even in a world full of evil like ours, there is hope and opportunity to love. You can be that difference in the world. There can be joy in this world and it starts with your choice.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - I like your last questions and would love to explore it further with you. How do you know what is wrong? Do you have beliefs about right and wrong? Do you believe murder is wrong, why? And what about rape, why is that wrong in your belief system?
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - being a women is a beautiful thing; a gift. There are no doubt pressures. For those not raped, if you are not ready to have a child, do not have sex. Seems like a shocking suggestion in our day and age but you really do have a choice (unless you are raped). For those who are horribly violated in rape, your motherhood is not ruined. My friend was raped and became pregnant. She gave her child up for adoption and helped a couple find a child to love. It was a beautiful thing.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori -all the women you described are humans with worth, value and a right to life. I am not saying, as you are about the unborn, that any of these humans should be killed if they are unwanted. I am saying they should allow the living child in their womb the right to life. It is a sad situation you described with a very young girl and my heart goes out to them too; but two wrongs do not make a right. Killing the innocent child in her womb, who is at no fault, is not the answer.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori are you saying we need to revert to being more like animals? sounds very primitive and uncaring to me. Where is the love in that? I am glad we have moved on from those days. I would love to inspire you to rise above the survival of the fittest mindset into a life of love in giving rather than taking. It's a life of joy, not survival.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori couldnt I say it would be pretty sick to kill an innocent human being to relieve your suffering? If somone is suicidal, the answer is love, support and counceling, not abortion. Human's in the womb are alive and are really here. Just because you can't see them and hold them does not mean they don't exist. You were once in your mother's womb and you were real and you were human. You deserved a right to life. Let's help and love all human beings from womb to tomb :)
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori - all you said sounds good if abortion didnt equal the killing of an innocent human. Just because you call the unborn child a fetus dosn't mean it is not a human with a right to life. Also with your logic, it would be better to kill infants as well if they are unwanted. Being unwanted has nothing to do with a human's right to life.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
@TheRealMidori Hello and thanks for the comment. I agree; it is not seen as good by many, especially in cases of rape. However, that does not reduce the fact that there is another human life involved with the decision to abort; the innocent unborn child. Even though suffering is involved in bringing an unwanted baby to birth from a rape, it would be wrong and unjust to kill an innocent human life to relieve that suffering. Thanks.
MacDubhsith 6 months ago
You are a crack pot. To say that the worst part of being raped is the abortion, to attest that rape victims should keep an unwanted rape pregnancy, and to support a bill that will attempt to make this law shows how utterly whacked you are. You should not be taken seriously about anything, you are daft.
Elenkhos 8 months ago 10
@Elenkhos rebecca is part of rape culture. she is supporting the subjugation of women who have already been victimized by makign herself into a martyr when she is not the victim. she has no right to dictate that women become broodmares because she likes her life
leiapeison 7 months ago
@Elenkhos The DNA of a human fetus is human DNA, whether conceived in rape or consensual sex. Have you ever met someone conceived in rape or someone who was the victim of rape? If not then I recommend the book "Victim or Victors." I work for a Crisis Pregnancy Center and we have taken in several rape victims in the past. All who chose adoption found healing and they were able to move on with their lives. All who chose abortion came back for post-abortion support.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 And what's your point? It's good that someone has enough courage to keep an unwanted pregnancy from a trauma, I know someone that did that, and she kept the baby herself, that's real courage, but not all women have that courage, nor should a bill be foisted on them that makes them have a child they do not want.
Elenkhos 5 months ago
@Elenkhos My point is that abortion does have its traumatizing side effects and that the unborn are human and they are alive. True, not all women have the courage to handle difficult situations but does that mean that life loses its value if it is in the hands of an unsteady individual? Should we allow theft to be legalized because there are poor people out there that use theft as a resource? The fact of the matter is that abortion is a moral issue much more than a political one.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Elenkhos Women have resources at their fingertips. Look in the phone book under "abortion alternatives" or "maternity homes." These resources exist for the very purpose of promoting life and providing women with help and assistance in all situations. I'm not heartless towards abused women, being that I am a woman and I suffered sexual abuse. My situation has given me a passion and a purpose to help women. I can't encourage any woman to abort, knowing the side effects. Adoption is underrated.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 Yea, well YOU say it's underrated, tell that to the millions of children in custody of the government who are not adopted who spend their entire life in foster care. It appears to me that this Christian attitude toward "life" only extends to the unborn, once born, toss them in the trash. If Christians are so big on adoption let them step up first and adopt the millions of kids that need it now.
Elenkhos 5 months ago
@Elenkhos Ah...so, being in the custody of the government is worse than being dead? There are children in foster homes that are doing quite well. (I know some foster parents) There are also children in the homes of their birth parents and they are suffering abuse, neglect and many other things. The fact is that adoption isn't the magic potion and I'm not saying that. But to abort a child is to kill a child. I can't justify abortion because there are negative cases out there.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Elenkhos Also, many birth parents are Christian...hence the Christian adoption agency. I know many people who step up to the plate and take care of foster or adopted children...and they are all Christian. I know that they're out there but I still have yet to meet or know of a secular adoptive parent...aside from Angelina Jolie. Christians are for adoption, considering that we have been adopted into God's family because of the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Elenkhos Oh...and children that are not adopted don't spend their entire lives in foster care. Once they turn 18 they can strike out on their own. At that point they can make their own decisions.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 Ok I'll rephrase it, the spend the ENTIRE child hood in foster care, and whow what a big advantage to be in foster care being dumped from house to house on a whim, having no real family, leaving friends and schools behind constantly without warning. The average foster child gets replaced no less than 20 times before they are 18 .. do you know what you are talking about, but I know you don't care either, it's about your shit agenda to push your religious values down peoples throats.
Elenkhos 5 months ago
@Elenkhos Have I at any time stated "you must follow my religion"? I find it laughable that every time (it never fails) that someone disagrees with me on any subject at all they say that I'm pushing my opinions on them. It sounds like a weak excuse. As far as I can tell I only mentioned once out of my many posts that I believe in the adoption into the family of God. If the very thought of love and acceptance bothers you then I feel very sorry for you.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 When in Africa the wilderbeast HERD crosses a river, all the other animals move out of the way, you can't claim individuality when you are part of the sheeple
Elenkhos 5 months ago
@Elenkhos I beg your pardon? If you are referring to the fact that I'm religious then I could also state that there are many animals that do not stay in a herd. They do not have the safety of the herd either. But I'm not an animal...hence why I'm typing on a computer.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Elenkhos Oh...I am an individual...considering that I have my own separate identity from any other human on this planet. You make very blanket statements. So, now you are trying to impose you secular state of mind on me? (Since I should use your logic) I am religious...so what makes what I have to say any less relevant?
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Elenkhos I know families who have taken in foster children and they do not lack for love. I know children who have lived with their birth families and they were abused. Adoption has its pros and cons as does parenting but the point at the very core of my debate is that adoption is a much better alternative than abortion. Adoption does not violate one simple moral law "thou shalt not kill." Also, abortion wouldn't be "needed" if another moral law were followed "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 I would not spend 9 months pregnant to have a child and give it away to satisfy pro lifers. You are really overestimating your importance in other people's lives. For one thing the field I want to work in (investment banking) is a very competitive and driven field with long hours. I'll barely have time to sleep wouldn't have time to go on maternity leave. And I'm not sacrificing a possible 1.5 - 5 million dollar a year paycheck to satisfy the dreams of strangers. -continued-
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox you forget to mention. it isnt just 9 months. having a child lasts forever whether it is given away or not
leiapeison 5 months ago
@pinklady292 And I know girls in group homes that have had to be put on suicide watch. Next.
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox Then you are a very selfish person. Is that all your concerned about? Taking care of #1? You are shallow. I have a baby. He has not ruined my life. Oh, and if you don't want a baby then don't have sex. If you have respect for your body then you have the right to demand respect from other people. I didn't have sex until after I was married._ My husband and I are doing well. Knowing that I've loved one man and he has only loved me has been a sturdy foundation for our marriage.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox If you don't want to give up a child there is no pressure to do so. There are certainly many good alternatives. I'm not important. I have changed no one, I have helped no one, only God has. In and of myself I'm_ no different from any other human being on the face of this planet...but because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and because of the Grace of God I am righteous before him...my righteousness is not my own but it comes from the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 I'm an atheist. Christianity is irrelevant. I don't have to justify it the supreme court did.
Am I selfish person because I have career goals that don't consist of staying at home and taking care of kids? I suppose so and I'm perfectly fine with it.
And I can have sex whenever and with whoever I want. That's none of your business. You have a family and are doing well? Great, but just because I'm a female doesn't mean I want a family or marriage. FWB is fine with me.
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox I didn't try to tell you when and where to have sex. :) I simply told you that I have a good marriage. I've been happily married for three years now with a man who treats me well and works hard to support and protect his household. :) I'm not trying to make you angry. See, I'm an extremely jealous person. If my husband had slept around before we were married it would have hurt me badly. Staying monogamous has its benefits but I'm not saying that it's the magic potion.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 You said if you don't want a baby don't have sex. That's why I responded that way.
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox Well, it's kind of true. Sex is procreation along with pleasure and bonding of two people. The design for bonding is between a husband and wife. Whether you believe that or not is your decision, but for me I could not have sex outside of the context of marriage and believe that it was moral. I'm all for birth control...but I do believe that there are certain moral contexts for sexuality. Marriage between one man and one woman.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 Oh, yeah. And another thing. About marriage... You ALSO don't get to decide which couples will or will not get their civil rights. I'm a lesbian. And one day I will marry the woman of my life. There's nothing you can do that will change that. Marriage is a civil contract between 2 consenting adults. Churches can define marriage the way they want. NOT a SECULAR government.
Skulander1 5 months ago
(1) And you know, I've read your "arguments" and you STILL hasn't provided any sort of justification about why abortions must be banned. Like all anti-choicers I've debated so far. Not ONE of them has successfully demonstrated to me why THEIR views should prevail. It's always the same thing: it's their way or the highway. I can't say I'm too impressed by this fascist argumentation.
Skulander1 5 months ago
(2) Millions of women in the U.S. and around the world think that abortions are moral and justifiable. Quite a few of us even think abortion right is a human right. There are many reasons behind this belief, first and foremost being that lack of abortion access harms and kills women. Whether you are swayed by this argument or not is beyond the point. The point is that you don't get to make choices for all of us women out there because of your narrow and selfish views.
Skulander1 5 months ago
@Skulander1 keep going. these people are selfish narcissists who think their mothers owed it to them to birth them
leiapeison 5 months ago
@pinklady292 The design for bonding is between a husband and wife
Says who?
Marriage between one man and one woman.
Again says who?
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox What are you trying to justify? What are you even debating against? Once again it sounds like you are trying to say that murder is acceptable because there are negative situations_ in this world. We've been over this.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Elenkhos The advantage of adoption still beats death any day. Ask any child and see if they would rather be dead. I do care...but trying to convince you of that would be futile...considering that you don't know me and you have already determined who and what I am in your own mind. :) Don't judge a book by its cover...you have no idea what volunteer work I have done...and how much I love and care for any and every one who comes to me for help. :)
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Elenkhos I also have been very polite to you through this entire discussion. There is no need to cuss.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 Alright no more profanity.
Elenkhos 5 months ago
It's sad to see selfish individuals pushing their own private beliefs on every one of us. And WHY is it that women's needs, desires, aspirations, and their traumatic experience of rape is not taken into account? People like her disgust me beyond words. Not to mention that they play dangerous games with women's lives. Don't want an abortion? Don't get one. It's not a hard concept to understand. And I'm not quite sure why the fetus should have super-rights trumping mines...
Skulander1 8 months ago 2
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spindiamond 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
@Skulander1 Don't like murder? Don't kill. If only it were that easy but it's not. We oppose abortion because it takes away the life of a child. If you don't want to read the private beliefs of other people then don't get on a public sight. It's that easy. Instead of complaining why don't you state what you believe in?
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 What child? What murder? Simply babbling your religious beliefs and forcing your views on all women out there doesn't make them true nor gives them the moral authority to decide what grown up women should do. So yep. Abortion. If I get pregnant and I don't want to be you betcha I'll have an abortion in less time it takes you to read this. I don't CARE what you think of my choices and whether or not you think women should enjoy reproductive freedom. YOU don't get to decide for all.
Skulander1 5 months ago
@Skulander1 Also, the woman has been put first in over 50 million cases. What about the life of the child? Shall we murder to provide "women's needs, desires, aspirations?" Shall we murder because it is justified in rape cases? Abortionists play dangerous games with women's lives. There have been countless botched abortions and deaths due to the medical form of rape.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292 woman has been put first in over 50 million cases.
As they should be.
Shall we murder because it is justified in rape cases? Abortionists play dangerous games with women's lives. There have been countless botched abortions and deaths due to the medical form of rape.
All surgeries have risks. Abortion is no exception. If you think abortion is a form of rape than I suggest you look up the correct term. More women have died in childbirth then abortions.
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox Is a fetus a human? Why or why not?
pinklady292 5 months ago
@Skulander1 Also, no one is forcing their beliefs on you. No one told you that you had to watch this video or read anyone's comments.
pinklady292 5 months ago
God gives life.... I think Rebecca's point is that, you never know what God has in store for that little person inside you. I dont think it would be easy to do, but theres a reason for everything. And a baby is NOT part of a womans body...
jwill151 9 months ago
@jwill151 a reason for everything? that has been the excuse to justify every atrocity in history. no, the reason this happened is because some sick freak decided to violate an innocent woman. GOD has in store? she is not the savior of mankind. the world would go on without her as it would with me. her mother had every right to an abortion as did mine
leiapeison 8 months ago
I find it humorous that all people that advocate and protect abortion were born. They were given the right to exist and to be given the chance that their mother gave them, to experience life. Put yourself in the baby/fetus' perspective; would you want to live or to simply never get the chance? Theoretically if I went back in time and convinced your mothers to abort you , then you would not exist and that would be perfectly fine.
You got the right to live, why not you unborn child?
SolxtheUnmaker 9 months ago
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SolxtheUnmaker 9 months ago
So you have no problem killing a person, not only a person, but a person who could potentially be your son or daughter, who is a part of you? Can I ask why you don't want any children?
mksimms11 9 months ago
PRAISE JESUS CHRIST, the GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR.
There's nothing I can say to add to what Rebecca said.
MatsPT 10 months ago
So you should kill a baby conceived in rape because of the circumstances? Why finish something horrible with something equally as bad? Why not make a horror story into the ultimate love story by keeping the baby? Or if it hurts to much, give he/she up for adoption. And she wasn't saying Jews are horrible people, her adoptive parents were at her wedding too. She was saying she wasn't fitting in anywhere...
mksimms11 10 months ago
@mksimms11 I would have an abortion due to rape yes I would. Why should I ruin my life and possibly mental health to satisfy you?
xlovexothersxalsox 10 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox
I said nothing about satisfying others, including me. I said why would you kill YOUR child. Regardless of whether you believe it's a blob of tissue or a baby, "it" has the potential to be a human being, and when you abort that future child, you are killing your own baby. Do you think you would have great mental health if you killed your own child? A baby does not ruin your life, in fact, he/she makes your life so much better.
mksimms11 10 months ago
@mksimms11 A baby makes your life better if you actually want said baby but I don't. Anyway, no I don't have kids. And risking my fertility would be a risk that I would be more then willing to take.
xlovexothersxalsox 10 months ago 8
@xlovexothersxalsox
Your youtube username is love others also...I wonder why you don't also love these children who are being killed where it should be their safest place in the world. And there are people who thought they didn't want a baby, and when they saw them, they fell in love. If you are so inclined, look up the Silent No More website. They have women on their who speak about their abortions. Maybe that will show you that it doesn't help their mental health to abort their children.
mksimms11 9 months ago
@mksimms11 I don't believe a fetus is a child first and foremost. I've read stories of women who regret their abortions. My heart goes out to them. But I've also read stories about women who believed there abortion was the best thing they ever did.
xlovexothersxalsox 9 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox If you are referring to the risk of infertility caused by abortion I wouldn't take it so lightly. There are other side effects. -Increased chance of breast cancer -Increased chance of contracting an STD and the list goes on. If you don't want children then why don't you consider having your tubes tied? Rather than the cost of having regular abortions you could pay once to have no chance whatsoever of getting pregnant.
pinklady292 5 months ago
@pinklady292
1. Doctors won't tie your tubes unless you are a certain age.
2. I have not had an abortion. I said IF that happened to me.
3. How about you worry about your uterus and I'll worry about mine?
xlovexothersxalsox 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
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spindiamond 5 months ago
@mksimms11 it doesnt matter if YOU personally think a baby doesnt ruin someone's life. the fact of the matter is having children can, has and DOES ruin it for some people.
leiapeison 7 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox Or, if you don't want your "life ruined" you could always give up your baby for adoption. Have you had any children? And did you know that getting abortions can hurt your ability to have children in the future?
mksimms11 10 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox
In case you have forgotten, you talk about forced pregnancies. Now rape is forced upon someone. But pregnancy IS NOT FORCED ON WOMEN! Women DO NOT have to have birth control if they DO NOT have sex. The "choice" your speaking of should've been made BEFORE she CHOSE to get pregnant. I am sick of people saying they have to have birth control, or what...you can't have sex with a man you just met, get pregnant and then get rid of your "Consequences?"
mksimms11 9 months ago
@mksimms11 Uh sweetie we are talking about rape abortions. In a rape you don't choose to have sex.
xlovexothersxalsox 9 months ago
@mksimms11
I wasn't talking about those who have been raped. Those who are raped in my opinion should still keep their baby or at least give it up for adoption. But you are saying that you've known women who said their abortion was the best thing they ever did? For who? It certainly wasn't in the best interest of the child, because they didn't get a "choice" in the matter. I was also looking at your youtube videos that you've uploaded. That's where I got your term "forced pregnancies."
mksimms11 9 months ago
oh, you poor whining bitch. those mean JOOOOOOOS wouldn't accept you. and christians have always been so accepting of people of other faiths.
someone should retroactively abort your worthless ass.
IJustStoleYourMoney 1 year ago
@IJustStoleYourMoney I pity you. So much hate and so much ignorance.
EmilyGreene1984 1 year ago
@EmilyGreene1984 awwwww, well aren't you just a condescending asshole, just like this cunt kiessling?
"wahhhhhhh I was conceived by rape! buy my book! its what jebus would do!"
IJustStoleYourMoney 1 year ago
shes gorgeous. inside and out
UrbanBarbie1 1 year ago
@UrbanBarbie1 Yes because wanting women to be forced to carry rape babies is gorgeous...
xlovexothersxalsox 11 months ago
@xlovexothersxalsox Why should you kill the baby? Just because the mother of the baby doesn't want it, doesn't mean another couple don't and would gladly take the child in? As horrible and traumatic as rape is, there is no justification for killing an innocent baby.
EmilyGreene1984 10 months ago
@EmilyGreene1984 Well let's see. A fetus has no legal rights to a womans uterus. Not everyone can handle a pregnancy due to rape. So yes there is justification.
xlovexothersxalsox 10 months ago
@EmilyGreene1984 "just" because she doesnt want it? your comments are as trivializing as palin's "less than ideal" tag. and no there arnt and never will be enough parents. even if there were, that doesnt obligate a woman to have a child against her will for others to take. women arnt slaves to their fertility at least not in the civlized world
leiapeison 7 months ago
*consent
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
Not according to merriem webster. =) a an adult female person b a woman belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation)usually used in combination "councilwoman"
2womankind
3 distinctively feminine nature : womanliness
4 a woman who is a servant or personal attendant
Special emphasis on ADULT female person. Sorry fetuses but your disqualified.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - what about womankind? So, what were you when you were only 8 wks old?
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith A female fetus. -turns into a preteen- DUHH
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - From Wikipedia "A woman (pl: women) is a female human. The term woman is usually reserved for an adult, with the term girl being the usual term for a female child or adolescent. However, the term woman is also sometimes used to identify a female human, regardless of age, as in phrases such as "Women's rights".
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
Ahh I've finally been able to make myself return.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox :)
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
Great video! God bless Rebecca!
Blackcat51292 1 year ago
Isnt that, as you say "a war tactic?"
It really was a war tactic. Part of conquering foreign lands was raping/impregnating the women. It destroyed the community emotionally and destroyed the men's morale. It was unfortunately common practice. Something you would like to see made into law. I can send you stories of this happening recently if you'd like.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - thanks for what you are meaning by war tactic. In those cases, yes, that is obviously a war tactic, no doubt. Rape is horrible and evil. So is murder. One does not cancel out the other.
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
rape victim should have no say in what happens to her body. What are you going to tell her? Oh you should have thought of that before you got a vagina?Most pro lifers I get along well with and while we don't agree on everything we usually agree in this aspect. This is a hell of a sensitive topic for me and I can only take so much. For someone who has ever been in this situation to sit and dictate what this woman must do takes a lot of nerve. And to go so far as to say she deserves JAILTIME?
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago 4
@xlovexothersxalsox - yes, she should have a say over her body; but not to the point of killing another body. - I am going to tell her there is hope and something good can come of the evil that happened to her. I would also explain the emotional trauma that would occure after the abortion and the scar that would leave on her life. There is always hope and making a decision to love, even when suffering is involved, is always the right descision. I dont think my friend will ever regret...
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith there is hope ad something good? who the heck are you to tell her what that hope entails? get over yourself!! decision? you dont want there to be a decision. you want the "decision" made for her!! your friend had a choice as should all women. you want to know what would leave trauma? YOU, a complete stranger, making the choice for her!!
leiapeison 1 year ago 2
@leiapeison - yes, there is hope, whether I say it or not. There is always hope. There is always a decision no matter what the law says. One has free will to break the law. We all have a choice. You obviously don't believe the unborn child has a right to anything so this is influencing your belief in this matter. I believe the unborn child has rights to life, even if his/her father wis a rapist.
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith it is not for you to decide where that hope should come from. your only agenda is bringing women back to the days when they had no control over their fertility and by extension their lives. break the law? yeah and spend decades in jail. but i guess it would be better than living in the jail you would have her spend in. the jail that has become her own life thanks to your warped perceptions of what is moral
leiapeison 1 year ago
@leiapeison - There is only one source of hope. leiapeison; I appreciate the discussion; can you please describe what your beliefs are concerning abortion and the law including in cases of rape etc. It is easier to debate when I know where you stand. I am not sure if you are talking about abortion in general or only in cases of rape etc. thanks
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith every woman has a right to terminate. it should be up to the woman. end of story. dont like it? i dont know what to tell you. im not here to breed for the world. adoption does not help all women. it is up to her to decide what she can handle. and you have NOOO right to make this decision for her. it isnt about protecting anything with you people. it is about your lunatic dogma and your inability to let it go
leiapeison 1 year ago
@leiapeison - you have an idealogy; that a woman has complet rights over her reproduction which includes killing her unborn child if she wants. This is your dogma. The point of this debate or discussion, in my opinion, is for each of us to present the best and most convincing case for their side. If you dont know what to tell me, than how can you expect any progress in convincing me?
Dosnt your statment seem pretty dogmatic "every woman has a right to terminate.. end of story.."
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith do you even understand dogma? i am not sanctioning that every woman have an abortion or that they are even made to. obviously it is a choice. it is not the choice for every woman but it is the right choice for some women. they cant have it both ways. the unborn will never have rights over those who are already engaged in life. you will never understand this i know, but i guess i am just a die hard optimist
leiapeison 1 year ago
@leiapeison - Dogma is defined as " the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioner or believers" Your Ideology has a Dogma; that a woman has full rights over the entirety of her reproduction which can include the killing of her unborn child. You said "every woman has a right to terminate. it should be up to the woman. end of story." Sure sounds dogmatic to me.
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@leiapeison - My dogma is that a person deserves a right to life from conception to natural death. Your dogma is that a woman has the right to abort her unborn child. Your dogma allows for the taking of an innocent human life. My dogma allows for the mental and or physical suffering of a woman to carry a child to birth. I aknowledge there can be suffering involved with my dogma but you do not aknowledge the innocent life that must be shed at the cost of yours.
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith my dogma? i am not forcing it on people. i am not making laws saying women have to abort. i acknowledge that a biological organism dies in an abortion. i never denied that. what i am saying is that it doesnt and it cant have the same rights as a woman without stripping her of her dignity
leiapeison 1 year ago
@leiapeison - Your dogma does not force adult women; it forces unborn women to die by the will of their mother. YOU are not forcing them to die, but your dogma allows adult women to force their unborn daughters to die.
Also, a belief does not have to be "forced" to be a dogma. A dogma is simply a belief that is believed to be undisputable, without compromise and held stubbornly. What kind of organism dies in an abortion?
Abortion gives women dignity? What does it give unborn women?
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
Respond to this video... @MacDubhsith What does it give unborn women?
nborn women is an oxymoron. For starters a woman is an adult female. Second at the time of most abortions te fetus doesn't have genitals so it's sexless.
what about when they are full term; the same size as a newborn.
She never tried to justify something like that. That's a connection you keep trying to make.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - Woman can be difined as any female. So, if i were castrated, would I be sexless? Genetically, each person is either XX or XY from conception.
I am trying to show you that the arguments you are making can be used to justify killing of unborn children througout a pregnancy as well as a support for infanticide.
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith I am trying to show you that the arguments you are making can be used to justify killing of unborn children througout a pregnancy as well as a support for infanticide.
An infant can think. A fetus after 9 weeks can think. I think I came up with a pretty fair compromise for pro life and pro choice. Key word COMPROMISE
Fetuses don't suffer Women get a chance to choose. Everybody wins.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - This discussion may become a lot more productive if we focus in on the fundamental difference in belief we have. I believe that the begining of human life is fertilization or conception. At this point, a new and unique human being exist. I believe when there is a unique human being involved, they deserve a basic right to life. All these arguments boil down to is WHEN a human being deserves a right to life. You say 9 weeks. I say conception. - continued next-
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - continued from above - You give the reason for 9 weeks because that is when you say the child can think and feel, so you do not believe it right to inflict pain and suffering on the child. I say, from conception because, I do not believe thinking and feeling are the qualifiers for rights to life, I believe that simply being a genetically unique human being gives a human the basic right to life. This is what I would like to convince you of.
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
@MacDubhsith This is what I would like to convince you of.
Well that will not happen. What you won't admit is that basically you are doing this for You not the fetus. The fetus doesn't care if it's aborted. It can't think. You want it to end because You don't like it and it doesn't coincide with YOUR beliefs. This is really about YOU not the fetus.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - You are free to believe what you want about my intensions. I know why I am doing this. I am doing this because it is the right thing to do; though it may be unpopular or bring critisism to me. I do it because I believe there is something sacred about human life and the minute we start saying, "this human deserves to live but this one dosnt" we fail to be human, we become like animals; survival of the fittest.
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
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@MacDubhsith "this human deserves to live but this one dosnt" we fail to be human, we become like animals; survival of the fittest.
We already do that.
I believe there is something sacred about human life
I believe their is something sacred about the quality of human life. The "sacredness" of something is between you and your God. Not the lawmakers of this country.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox - so, based on the narrowing in of the argument; the only progress I think we can make here, is if we produce arguments to support our belief about WHEN a human deserves a right to life.
At what age do you believe a Human deserves a right to life?
MacDubhsith 1 year ago
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@MacDubhsith At what age do you believe a Human deserves a right to life?
Alredy said that. 9 weeks.
xlovexothersxalsox 1 year ago
@xlovexothersxalsox
Ask the former director of a Planned Parenthood in Texas, who witnessed an ultrasound-guided abortion, if the "fetus" she was looking at as it died wasn't suffering. I will pray for you xlove that you see that it's not a blob of tissue, it is a human. God has already created him/her in His image, and He made you too, and he loves you. God bless.
mksimms11 10 months ago
@MacDubhsith my mom had a right to abort embryo me as much as your mother had a right. my life didnt come first and i had no real interest at that point. my mom had a right to control her destiny and any children's destiny that would come from her. dont like it? too bad. it isnt my problem that you think you have a need to exist at your mothers expense.
leiapeison 7 months ago
What does coming first have to do with anything? Does an infant even have the ability for higher thought like that? Should the right to control ones Destiny give one the right to end the life of another human being? When you say it isn't your problem I am a bit confused; you are the one who originally attacked my positive post on here while I continue trying to defend it. If it isnt your problem, why continue to attack my belief? Who are you trying to convince?
MacDubhsith 7 months ago
@MacDubhsith you position IS my problem because your position is a mysoginist controlling one. you CANT give rights to the unborn without harming the born because accidental conceptions happen. there needs to be a backup plan for people whose contraception failed in order for them to have complete control over their fertility. there is no point in having the right to life if you are born a slave and that is what your position makes of women. makes them slaves to being mothers
leiapeison 7 months ago
@leiapeison So it is your problem? You really think I am a mysoginist? What about the thousands of women who agree with me, are they mysoginistic as well? Painting me this way makes about as much sense as if I was trying to paint you as a bloodthirsty baby killer, with a hatred for the unborn. I don't believe that and I dont argue as if you were in this extreme. Is it easier for you to think of me as a hateful, controlling pig of a man? I think the name calling says more about you than me.
MacDubhsith 7 months ago
@MacDubhsith did you not read what i wrote? why are you trying to save embryos that might not even want it? i already stated that my mom had a right to abort me at that most primitive of stages. it would have been her right. get used to it
leiapeison 7 months ago
@leiapeison how do you know what an embryo wants? Just because something is currently legal and a right does not mean it is morally right. History has shown us that over and over. You have a philosophy, an ideal, that women's rights are so ultimate that they can even cancel out the rights of other human beings. I am all for women's rights but I am also all for human rights. Women's rights shouldnt stomp out the right to life. I am not alone, millions of women agree.
MacDubhsith 7 months ago