@THERAPTURECOMES LOL!!! I realize that a lot of ppl misunderstand what i meant by that. When i say 'commandment keeping' that is referring ONLY to the attributes of a true believer. The true believer will keep the commandments of Christ becuz they are of God. 1 John 3:6-9 &1 john 5:2-3 solidifies this. Also, i give more explanation in the other video. /watch?v=kiMq2hjscxg
@THERAPTURECOMES True Born Again Christians, Keep His Commandments Because We Love Him, Not Because Keeping His Commandments Saves Us. Salvation Alone Is By Believing And Trusting In Jesus Christ Alone. Doesn't Mean If We Fall We'll Lose Salvation, No. But When We Do Fall Confess Your Sins. We Don't Give Up Our Sins To Be Saved, Rather We Give Up Our Sins Because We Are Saved.
@THERAPTURECOMES My Friend, Does It Looks Like I'm A Hebrew Have You Taken The Time To Check My Channel? I Thought You Meant In That Comment You Paste, That We Are Saved By The Works Of Law. But i was Wrong. And Clearly Romans 10:3,4 Goes Against Professed Christians Who Think That Their Righteousness Would Saved Them. We Are Saved Simply By Grace Through Faith Period. I Miss Understood You I Apologize.
@THERAPTURECOMES Listen Carefully What This Verse Says About Professed Christians Counting On Their Own Works, Their Own Righteousness To Be Saved,
"Romans 10:3,4... "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
works of God performed= you beleived God :Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? is imperfect faith faith at all? If you were ever given eternal life by God who cannot lie, how long does that last? forever. If you do not end up having eternal life were you ever eternal life by God? no. God is not an indian giver. php 3:9 in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ
James 2(cont'd): Abraham had already been justified well before he offered his son Isaac up in sacrifice. Take note, nowhere does James say Abraham proved his justification as authentic by offering his son up. Rather, this is something you read into the text. You seize on those words, "faith without works is dead" without taking into consideration the context in which those words appear. Consequently you have James contradicting Paul. You are wrong.
I told you that I fail, I have failed and that I will fail again, but that God's gracious imputation of Christ's righteousness is why I am saved even though I fail. You respond by accusing me of being a sinless perfectionist.
I brought up Christ's obedience, and I asked you upon what obedience do you rely for salvation? You ignored me.
It would seem you think this is opportunity for fun and debate. I find that sad.
@rofyle Dude, you are absolutely amazing to me. It should be batantly obvious that I am posting this entire series to fight against the false teaching of salvation by works, and here you are accusing me of teaching just that. This is exactly why I am accusing you of either possibly being a false convert/atheist who's just looking for an argument, or a brother in Christ who is just ignorant of what the scriptures say. Hpow can you ignore what James said in chapter 2?
@vekl@vekl Again, where have I accused you of teaching salvation by works? And when have I not addressed James 2? I tire of this charade, I really do. "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." - James 2:24. "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace." - Romans 11:6 James is NOT speaking to salvific justification (legal imputation). Read my comment on this, on how James 1:21 supports this.
@rofyle faith alone would be correct- faith of God because with true faith there is works and this is perfect faith.but to say works are necessary for salvation is wrong, after all did christ die for the ungodly while they were yet sinners? why beleif unto salvation? : if you beleive you will do. that does not mean if you fail at all you do not beleive. God says it will happen and prepares grace for that purpose. with faith comes works, and with works comes evidences of faith. all by Gods work.
@rofyle If assurance of faith (which I agree is part of the evidence of true faith) is the only evidence, then please exeget ewhat James says in James 2:17-25. You have not exegeted that passage yet. All you did was try to counter challenge me by bringing up Romans 11:6. But you have failed to give an explanation as to what you think James meant in that passage. So, when are we going to hear it? And how about that debate?
I addressed all of this in both PM's I sent you. I brought up the flip side of your view, that if works are the evidence of salvation, then failure is the evidence of condemnation. You ignored me.
I brought up David, the fact that he murdered an innocent man and committed adultery with that man's wife. I brought up Peter who denied Christ thrice. I brought up Moses, I brought up Noah, I brought up all these people who failed most miserably, and yet were not condemned. You ignored me.
@rofyle You may have brought up David, Moses and all the other patriarchs, but none of that has any bearing on the postion that you're accusing me of. And furthermore, David showed evidence that he belonged to God, by his PENITENCE and praises to God. AGAIN, if assurance of salvation is the ONLY EVIDENCE of true faith, then prove it based on the context of James 2. And how about that debate??!?!?
@vekl David, Moses and the others have everything to do with this. I am so tired of you ignoring my argument. If the evidence of salvation is works, then the evidence of condemnation is disobedience. However, David, Moses and the others show the fact that disobedience is NOT the evidence of condemnation. Neither then can works be the evidence of salvation. I have pointed out to you that Scripture says Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Satan can do the works too Is he saved?
It's not that I'm not judged because I believe I'm not judged. It's that the gospel says God will never judge His elect, because He has already judged them in Christ. The result of this gospel is the fact the Spirit opens the eyes of His elect to see the truth of the gospel and to believe it. The evidence of salvation is faith, not works. Why? Because the imputation is perfect, while the salvation is still as yet incomplete (awaiting Christ's return).
@rofyle Guy, once again, you are showing clear evidence that you are only seeking an argument to win. You have NOT at all shown any evidence that I am preaching a works salvation doctrine. As the sheep, we will not fall victim to God's judgment. I cannot believe that you missed that and watched my video at the same time. Are you an atheist who'se acting like a Christian and trying to cause discord amongst the brethren? You sure are beginning to look like one. Big time!!!
@vekl Hmm, let me see if I understand this. We supposedly agree, and yet at the same time I'm also supposedly showing evidence of being an Atheist. Um, wouldn't that make you an Atheist too???
I have not called you names. I have not accused you of being one thing or another. I have done nothing more than challenge your view that works are evidence of salvation. I don't know why you feel compelled to mock me, to call me names, to deride me. Are you showing evidence of being condemned?
@rofyle I have not called you names, but merely made an assertion. It was not a absolute statament. But YOU are trying to accuse me of teaching salvation by works. So what do you call that? And again, you have not exegeted what James 2 says about the results of true faith. Are you saying that we as Christians, once we're saved, have no responsisbility at all? s that what you're saying. Are you a sinless perfectionist?
@vekl Adverbs reveal emotion. You should try to steer clear of them. They don't make your ideas stronger. Quite the opposite in fact, they make them weaker. For example, you merely asserted? No, you asserted. You asserted I was an Atheist, you asserted I was calling you a legalist, you asserted I'm not a Christian, and now you assert I'm a sinless perfectionist. Please, make up your mind. Which is it? As for me, I'm all about the gospel. And no, I can't make videos, so no debate.
Vekl, Jesus said in John 3 that a man must be born of water and the Spirit or he will not see the kingdom of heaven. How do you know you've been born of the Spirit?
EXACTLY! You're trying to employ works as a standard of belief, and as a result, you're turning them into works of the flesh. The elect believe because the Spirit gives them the faith to see God has perfectly imputed Christ's perfect righteousness to them. The only evidence is faith, because only faith can be the evidence!
@rofyle "How do you know you've been born of the Spirit?" By the faith that I have in Christ, and also by the RESULTS of that faith that I have in Christ. Again, you seem to continue to deliberately ignore James 2:17-25. Why do you keep doing that while at the same time deliberately ignore the other passages I presented to you? Again, you are showing strong evidence that you are acting out in the flesh and seeking to only win an argument. This action of yours is not of God at all.
If we believe . . . hmm . . . let me see, what does that mean? if we believe, if we believe . . . wait a minute. Believe? Ohhh, you mean . . . FAITH! We know we have eternal life how? We know by faith, therefore faith is the evidence that we have eternal life. Doh!
@rofyle Yes. I most certainly agree with you. Faith is the evidence of eternal life....BUT it is not the ONLY evidence. WORKS is also evidence. James 2:17-25
@vekl You can’t use James 2 to ignore Romans 11:6. James 1:21-22 supports me. James 2 is about the flesh. Some think "save your souls" means saved from Hell, but save your souls was a Greek phrase well known to the first hearers. It means, save your lives. James uses it again in 5:20, only there he adds the words, "from death." The NT does not use “save your souls” in conjunction with conversion. To save the soul means to save the physical life from an untimely death. Read verse 26.
@rofyle Guy, you are not being rational. You are showing STRONG evidence that you are not seeking to correct me but simply looking for an argument. You and I have no disagreement at all. The problem is that YOU don't like the words that I'm using, and you STILL haven't proven to me at all that my position is in error. You STILL have to cover what James said in James 2:17-25 to fully validate your argument. Until you get back to me with a response to that, then we can talk.
@vekl You have not heard me say that salvation is by works or that it's kept by works. Why are you trying to lie? I thought you were a Christian? You see?!? The 'works' that you're producing now is showing me evidence that you perhaps may very well indeed be a false convert. You need to be very careful.
@vekl How about this; since you claim that I'm in error, then why don't you and I set up a friendy debate over Skype about this issue. Obviously, the 'wording' that I use is a very big issue to you so why not allow everyone to hear both sides of the argument. C'mon whaddya say? Accept the challenge!!! Mono y mono!!!
@vekl I'm being exquisitely rational. And I have presented plenty enough evidence here to show that we disagree about the evidence of salvation. You say the evidence of salvation is works and faith, while I say it's faith only. And that is a mighty big difference indeed.
I have addressed James already. I was brief, but you must remember, I have only 500 words to work with here. I answered the challenge quite adequately. I interpret James without contradicting Romans 11:6. Can you?
@rofyle "interpret James without contradicting Romans 11:6. Can you?" Are you serious? This is the best challenge that you have for me? Well, no sweat!!! In fact, that's exactly what I'll be doing in my next video. (well, I got another coming out before that) but it's in the works. And thank you for the ammo.
@rofyle Keeping the law IS NOT the assurance of faith!! The assurance of faith is what John said in 1 John 5. That we may KNOW that we have eternal life, if we believe in the name of the Son of God.
"Commandment keeping"? It almost sounds like you have smuggled their error into an otherwise EXCELLENT message Brother. I am sure you don't believe that our keeping of the commandments contributes to, merits, or maintains our salvation. I have MUCH more confidence in you! It might be taken the wrong way.I agree with the goal of a life of holiness by true believers for even though Christ's life of obedience is ours by faith alone, a grateful heart wants to please God in obedience. God bless.
@Blogrich55 Christ said "if you love Me, keep My commandments" This does not mean that we are saved by KEEPING the law, but us KEEPING the law (or at least trying to through daily repentance) is the EVIDENCE that we belong to God. C'mon, Rich. You know me better than that!!! :)
@vekl But what is His commandment? You need to read John 6 again. It is NOT the law. Keeping the law is NOT the evidence I belong to God. Christ Himself kept the law, and God has graciously imputed this righteousness to me. The evidence I belong to God is that I have been brought to believe this!!!!
Hebrews 10:1 If there were anything we could do to make ourselves right, then we would only need to do it once, for it will have sufficed to make us perfect before God. Christ died once!
@rofyle 1) " It is NOT the law." Please do not attempt to throw words in my mouth. I never said that salvation is the keeping of the law. You are preaching to the choir and you are deliberately seeking to argue over nothing. PLease do not become a victim of hyper-intellectualism like so many that claim to be believers of Christ.....
@rofyle 2) No where in ANY of my videos will you hear me say that we are saved by works. I COMPLETELY disagree with that silly doctrine. But I will tell you this however, YOU are NOT the doctrinal police! And again, I will not standby and get involvded in this silly Lordship salvation issue. If you want to correct me, then do it THOROUGHLY and RIGHTEOUSLY by PM'ing me. But again, please do not twist my words around.
@rofyle 3) "Keeping the law is NOT the evidence I belong to God". Oh it isn't? Then tell me why did Jesus say what He said in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments" and John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."....
@rofyle 4) Is Jesus preaching a works based salvation in both of these passages? No of course not. He's preaching the EVIDENCE of those in whom the Father has brought to Him!!! But YOU say that it's not what He's preaching, so please tell me what does it mean!!
@rofyle 5) And furthermore, to clarify that I believe in salvation by grace, you really need to go back and watch 00:03:16 - 00:03:36. We as believers of Christ DO NOT look to the law for salvation.
@rofyle 6) Look, I want to sincerely apologize to you if I seemed a bit harsh to you earlier. Your statement has caught me offguard a bit, and I still disagree, but I most certainly do not want to allow my flesh to grieve the Holy Spirit in me. So again, I apologize for the sting in my words. HOWEVER, you can most definitely expect a response to your claims in the next video to come since it is actually pertinent to the series. Let God be true and every man a liar.
@Blogrich55 Exactly! He has smuggled it in. He's like Macarthur in this. He thinks the works produce the assurance, rather than the assurance producing the works. I strive to obey my Lord, because I want to please Him. I do not strive to obey in order to have assurance. Working with no assurance is not pleasing to God. It doesn't glorify Him. I know I will never be judged. I face no threat of condemnation. Christ has taken the full brunt of it on my behalf. Thank you, Lord.
@rofyle No, you are wrong. And please DO NOT get me involved in this silly high-school anti-John Macarthur crap! Please dont!!! So let me get this through to you before this gets any worse; WE ARE SAVED ONLY BY THE GRACE OF GOD!! NOTHING ELSE!!!! The KEEPING of the commandments IS NOT what saves us, but it is the EVIDENCE of our salvation.
Anyone struggling with understanding verses that appear to teach a salvation loss should check out my channel, as I tackle all the one's I have heard of.
Veki, consider carefully the illogic in your statement.
Do you actually think not deserving hell implies deserving heaven?
Now consider what makes christians, who presumably have the "spirit of truth", blunder so badly on simple logical concepts.
There is no evidence of a spirit guiding you into truth. Don't you think it is time for you to abandon the absurdity of your faith that condemns you to make such simple error in logic, and come to reason?
@philstilwell It makes perfect sense that a non-believer who is not filled with the Spirit of God would make such arbitrary claims. You don't know about the Spirit which is why you say. The bible makes it very clear that NO MAN is worthy of heaven becuz of sin. So all have fallen short of the glory of God. This includes YOU too!!!
@philstilwell You say that the Spirit of truth doesn't exist, huh? So tell me, what 'logic' do you base that upon? If truth doesn't exist, then by what authority do YOU have to make such arbitrary claims? According to your logic, you have no rational leg to stand on.
Veki, you've just committed your 2nd logical fallacy. No one said truth does not exist. I'm saying that truth does not exist within you, a rather informative observation since you claim to have the spirit of truth. Please don't intentionally and deceptively invent words for me. I want to think you're a nice guy, but a bit deluded.
You do not possess any spirit of truth as evidenced by your illogic.
@philstilwell You yourself just committed a logical fallacy by the statement you made. It's called 'begging the question'. You are yet again making arbirtrary claims that are not substantiated. You have no basis to tell me WHY you assume that the spirit of truth is not in me. Don't just tell me that I don't have it. PROVE IT!!!! Can you as an atheist prove that the spirit of truth is not in me? C'mon, let's see it!!!!
Veki. Pay attention this time. You claim to have the spirit of truth. You committed 2 logical fallacies. The spirit of truth, should he exist or should you possess him, does not deal in logical fallacies. Therefore you do not have the spirit of truth or the spirit of truth does not exist.
Any logical fallacies you imagine me to make can never rescue you from your own failure. That would be to fallaciously imagining my illogic makes you logical. Learn a bit of logic before invoking it.
@philstilwell You are not making any logical sense at all, guy. I think you're just wanting to argue with someone just so that you can hear yourself argue. LOL!! Just what in the world are you bothering me for, anyway? I'm still waiting for you to make logical sense of what it is that TRYING to argue defend. Come on with it, already! What SUBSTANTIAL reason do you have to make the claim that I do not have the spirit of truth?
@philstilwell lol!!! AGAIN, you have not at all substantiated this claim of yours. You are telling me that I do not have the spirit of truth, but yet you refuse to (and you're also incapable of) tell me how is it that you know this? AGAIN, you are begging the question which is logical fallacy. You are failing MISERBALY in having a truely logical discussion. Now try again, and this time, bring the beef!!!
COMMANDMENT KEEPING? Why did you add that in there if the law cannot save, does this not mean you have just said FOLLOW the LAW????????
THERAPTURECOMES 5 months ago
@THERAPTURECOMES LOL!!! I realize that a lot of ppl misunderstand what i meant by that. When i say 'commandment keeping' that is referring ONLY to the attributes of a true believer. The true believer will keep the commandments of Christ becuz they are of God. 1 John 3:6-9 &1 john 5:2-3 solidifies this. Also, i give more explanation in the other video. /watch?v=kiMq2hjscxg
vekl 5 months ago
@THERAPTURECOMES True Born Again Christians, Keep His Commandments Because We Love Him, Not Because Keeping His Commandments Saves Us. Salvation Alone Is By Believing And Trusting In Jesus Christ Alone. Doesn't Mean If We Fall We'll Lose Salvation, No. But When We Do Fall Confess Your Sins. We Don't Give Up Our Sins To Be Saved, Rather We Give Up Our Sins Because We Are Saved.
BornAgain771 1 month ago
@BornAgain771 I am not a Hebrew, the law commandments (Law) were never given to me. I am not bound by law in any way shape or form.
I am saved not by the law but by Christ and His shed blood.
Are you Hebrew?
THERAPTURECOMES 1 month ago
@THERAPTURECOMES My Friend, Does It Looks Like I'm A Hebrew Have You Taken The Time To Check My Channel? I Thought You Meant In That Comment You Paste, That We Are Saved By The Works Of Law. But i was Wrong. And Clearly Romans 10:3,4 Goes Against Professed Christians Who Think That Their Righteousness Would Saved Them. We Are Saved Simply By Grace Through Faith Period. I Miss Understood You I Apologize.
BornAgain771 1 month ago
@BornAgain771 Then i do apologize and lets hope a person comes along and sees to believers that reconciled their misunderstanding!
THERAPTURECOMES 1 month ago
@THERAPTURECOMES Amen , My Brother. When We Make Mistake We Are To Correct Ourselves. God Bless You!
BornAgain771 1 month ago
@BornAgain771 Just think, the rapture is about to take place.
THERAPTURECOMES 1 month ago
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@THERAPTURECOMES Listen Carefully What This Verse Says About Professed Christians Counting On Their Own Works, Their Own Righteousness To Be Saved,
"Romans 10:3,4... "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
How much clearer could the Word of God be?
BornAgain771 1 month ago
therby we can serve God willingly and not of necessity. pure and out of love, not out of debt.
searchtheoracles 8 months ago
works of God performed= you beleived God :Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? is imperfect faith faith at all? If you were ever given eternal life by God who cannot lie, how long does that last? forever. If you do not end up having eternal life were you ever eternal life by God? no. God is not an indian giver. php 3:9 in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ
searchtheoracles 8 months ago
James 2(cont'd): Abraham had already been justified well before he offered his son Isaac up in sacrifice. Take note, nowhere does James say Abraham proved his justification as authentic by offering his son up. Rather, this is something you read into the text. You seize on those words, "faith without works is dead" without taking into consideration the context in which those words appear. Consequently you have James contradicting Paul. You are wrong.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle I'll be responding to your comments in my next video.
vekl 1 year ago
I told you that I fail, I have failed and that I will fail again, but that God's gracious imputation of Christ's righteousness is why I am saved even though I fail. You respond by accusing me of being a sinless perfectionist.
I brought up Christ's obedience, and I asked you upon what obedience do you rely for salvation? You ignored me.
It would seem you think this is opportunity for fun and debate. I find that sad.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle Dude, you are absolutely amazing to me. It should be batantly obvious that I am posting this entire series to fight against the false teaching of salvation by works, and here you are accusing me of teaching just that. This is exactly why I am accusing you of either possibly being a false convert/atheist who's just looking for an argument, or a brother in Christ who is just ignorant of what the scriptures say. Hpow can you ignore what James said in chapter 2?
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl @vekl Again, where have I accused you of teaching salvation by works? And when have I not addressed James 2? I tire of this charade, I really do. "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." - James 2:24. "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace." - Romans 11:6 James is NOT speaking to salvific justification (legal imputation). Read my comment on this, on how James 1:21 supports this.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle faith alone would be correct- faith of God because with true faith there is works and this is perfect faith.but to say works are necessary for salvation is wrong, after all did christ die for the ungodly while they were yet sinners? why beleif unto salvation? : if you beleive you will do. that does not mean if you fail at all you do not beleive. God says it will happen and prepares grace for that purpose. with faith comes works, and with works comes evidences of faith. all by Gods work.
searchtheoracles 8 months ago
@rofyle If assurance of faith (which I agree is part of the evidence of true faith) is the only evidence, then please exeget ewhat James says in James 2:17-25. You have not exegeted that passage yet. All you did was try to counter challenge me by bringing up Romans 11:6. But you have failed to give an explanation as to what you think James meant in that passage. So, when are we going to hear it? And how about that debate?
vekl 1 year ago
I addressed all of this in both PM's I sent you. I brought up the flip side of your view, that if works are the evidence of salvation, then failure is the evidence of condemnation. You ignored me.
I brought up David, the fact that he murdered an innocent man and committed adultery with that man's wife. I brought up Peter who denied Christ thrice. I brought up Moses, I brought up Noah, I brought up all these people who failed most miserably, and yet were not condemned. You ignored me.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle You may have brought up David, Moses and all the other patriarchs, but none of that has any bearing on the postion that you're accusing me of. And furthermore, David showed evidence that he belonged to God, by his PENITENCE and praises to God. AGAIN, if assurance of salvation is the ONLY EVIDENCE of true faith, then prove it based on the context of James 2. And how about that debate??!?!?
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl David, Moses and the others have everything to do with this. I am so tired of you ignoring my argument. If the evidence of salvation is works, then the evidence of condemnation is disobedience. However, David, Moses and the others show the fact that disobedience is NOT the evidence of condemnation. Neither then can works be the evidence of salvation. I have pointed out to you that Scripture says Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Satan can do the works too Is he saved?
rofyle 1 year ago
It's not that I'm not judged because I believe I'm not judged. It's that the gospel says God will never judge His elect, because He has already judged them in Christ. The result of this gospel is the fact the Spirit opens the eyes of His elect to see the truth of the gospel and to believe it. The evidence of salvation is faith, not works. Why? Because the imputation is perfect, while the salvation is still as yet incomplete (awaiting Christ's return).
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle Guy, once again, you are showing clear evidence that you are only seeking an argument to win. You have NOT at all shown any evidence that I am preaching a works salvation doctrine. As the sheep, we will not fall victim to God's judgment. I cannot believe that you missed that and watched my video at the same time. Are you an atheist who'se acting like a Christian and trying to cause discord amongst the brethren? You sure are beginning to look like one. Big time!!!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl Hmm, let me see if I understand this. We supposedly agree, and yet at the same time I'm also supposedly showing evidence of being an Atheist. Um, wouldn't that make you an Atheist too???
I have not called you names. I have not accused you of being one thing or another. I have done nothing more than challenge your view that works are evidence of salvation. I don't know why you feel compelled to mock me, to call me names, to deride me. Are you showing evidence of being condemned?
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle I have not called you names, but merely made an assertion. It was not a absolute statament. But YOU are trying to accuse me of teaching salvation by works. So what do you call that? And again, you have not exegeted what James 2 says about the results of true faith. Are you saying that we as Christians, once we're saved, have no responsisbility at all? s that what you're saying. Are you a sinless perfectionist?
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl Adverbs reveal emotion. You should try to steer clear of them. They don't make your ideas stronger. Quite the opposite in fact, they make them weaker. For example, you merely asserted? No, you asserted. You asserted I was an Atheist, you asserted I was calling you a legalist, you asserted I'm not a Christian, and now you assert I'm a sinless perfectionist. Please, make up your mind. Which is it? As for me, I'm all about the gospel. And no, I can't make videos, so no debate.
rofyle 1 year ago
Vekl, Jesus said in John 3 that a man must be born of water and the Spirit or he will not see the kingdom of heaven. How do you know you've been born of the Spirit?
EXACTLY! You're trying to employ works as a standard of belief, and as a result, you're turning them into works of the flesh. The elect believe because the Spirit gives them the faith to see God has perfectly imputed Christ's perfect righteousness to them. The only evidence is faith, because only faith can be the evidence!
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle "How do you know you've been born of the Spirit?" By the faith that I have in Christ, and also by the RESULTS of that faith that I have in Christ. Again, you seem to continue to deliberately ignore James 2:17-25. Why do you keep doing that while at the same time deliberately ignore the other passages I presented to you? Again, you are showing strong evidence that you are acting out in the flesh and seeking to only win an argument. This action of yours is not of God at all.
vekl 1 year ago
If we believe . . . hmm . . . let me see, what does that mean? if we believe, if we believe . . . wait a minute. Believe? Ohhh, you mean . . . FAITH! We know we have eternal life how? We know by faith, therefore faith is the evidence that we have eternal life. Doh!
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle Yes. I most certainly agree with you. Faith is the evidence of eternal life....BUT it is not the ONLY evidence. WORKS is also evidence. James 2:17-25
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl You can’t use James 2 to ignore Romans 11:6. James 1:21-22 supports me. James 2 is about the flesh. Some think "save your souls" means saved from Hell, but save your souls was a Greek phrase well known to the first hearers. It means, save your lives. James uses it again in 5:20, only there he adds the words, "from death." The NT does not use “save your souls” in conjunction with conversion. To save the soul means to save the physical life from an untimely death. Read verse 26.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle Guy, you are not being rational. You are showing STRONG evidence that you are not seeking to correct me but simply looking for an argument. You and I have no disagreement at all. The problem is that YOU don't like the words that I'm using, and you STILL haven't proven to me at all that my position is in error. You STILL have to cover what James said in James 2:17-25 to fully validate your argument. Until you get back to me with a response to that, then we can talk.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl You have not heard me say that salvation is by works or that it's kept by works. Why are you trying to lie? I thought you were a Christian? You see?!? The 'works' that you're producing now is showing me evidence that you perhaps may very well indeed be a false convert. You need to be very careful.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl How about this; since you claim that I'm in error, then why don't you and I set up a friendy debate over Skype about this issue. Obviously, the 'wording' that I use is a very big issue to you so why not allow everyone to hear both sides of the argument. C'mon whaddya say? Accept the challenge!!! Mono y mono!!!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl I'm being exquisitely rational. And I have presented plenty enough evidence here to show that we disagree about the evidence of salvation. You say the evidence of salvation is works and faith, while I say it's faith only. And that is a mighty big difference indeed.
I have addressed James already. I was brief, but you must remember, I have only 500 words to work with here. I answered the challenge quite adequately. I interpret James without contradicting Romans 11:6. Can you?
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle "interpret James without contradicting Romans 11:6. Can you?" Are you serious? This is the best challenge that you have for me? Well, no sweat!!! In fact, that's exactly what I'll be doing in my next video. (well, I got another coming out before that) but it's in the works. And thank you for the ammo.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl Yes, I am serious. And I look forward to your video.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle So, what say you? How 'bout that debate? You up for it, or not?
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl Hebrews 11:1-2 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Notice that. Faith is the assurance. It doesn't say keeping the law is the assurance. I have PM'd you.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle Keeping the law IS NOT the assurance of faith!! The assurance of faith is what John said in 1 John 5. That we may KNOW that we have eternal life, if we believe in the name of the Son of God.
vekl 1 year ago
Good job Jay! Glad too see this series reposed! :->
r8escjohn 1 year ago
"Commandment keeping"? It almost sounds like you have smuggled their error into an otherwise EXCELLENT message Brother. I am sure you don't believe that our keeping of the commandments contributes to, merits, or maintains our salvation. I have MUCH more confidence in you! It might be taken the wrong way.I agree with the goal of a life of holiness by true believers for even though Christ's life of obedience is ours by faith alone, a grateful heart wants to please God in obedience. God bless.
Blogrich55 1 year ago
@Blogrich55 Christ said "if you love Me, keep My commandments" This does not mean that we are saved by KEEPING the law, but us KEEPING the law (or at least trying to through daily repentance) is the EVIDENCE that we belong to God. C'mon, Rich. You know me better than that!!! :)
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl But what is His commandment? You need to read John 6 again. It is NOT the law. Keeping the law is NOT the evidence I belong to God. Christ Himself kept the law, and God has graciously imputed this righteousness to me. The evidence I belong to God is that I have been brought to believe this!!!!
Hebrews 10:1 If there were anything we could do to make ourselves right, then we would only need to do it once, for it will have sufficed to make us perfect before God. Christ died once!
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle 1) " It is NOT the law." Please do not attempt to throw words in my mouth. I never said that salvation is the keeping of the law. You are preaching to the choir and you are deliberately seeking to argue over nothing. PLease do not become a victim of hyper-intellectualism like so many that claim to be believers of Christ.....
vekl 1 year ago
@rofyle 2) No where in ANY of my videos will you hear me say that we are saved by works. I COMPLETELY disagree with that silly doctrine. But I will tell you this however, YOU are NOT the doctrinal police! And again, I will not standby and get involvded in this silly Lordship salvation issue. If you want to correct me, then do it THOROUGHLY and RIGHTEOUSLY by PM'ing me. But again, please do not twist my words around.
vekl 1 year ago
@rofyle 3) "Keeping the law is NOT the evidence I belong to God". Oh it isn't? Then tell me why did Jesus say what He said in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments" and John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."....
vekl 1 year ago
@rofyle 4) Is Jesus preaching a works based salvation in both of these passages? No of course not. He's preaching the EVIDENCE of those in whom the Father has brought to Him!!! But YOU say that it's not what He's preaching, so please tell me what does it mean!!
vekl 1 year ago
@rofyle 5) And furthermore, to clarify that I believe in salvation by grace, you really need to go back and watch 00:03:16 - 00:03:36. We as believers of Christ DO NOT look to the law for salvation.
vekl 1 year ago
@rofyle 6) Look, I want to sincerely apologize to you if I seemed a bit harsh to you earlier. Your statement has caught me offguard a bit, and I still disagree, but I most certainly do not want to allow my flesh to grieve the Holy Spirit in me. So again, I apologize for the sting in my words. HOWEVER, you can most definitely expect a response to your claims in the next video to come since it is actually pertinent to the series. Let God be true and every man a liar.
vekl 1 year ago
@Blogrich55 Exactly! He has smuggled it in. He's like Macarthur in this. He thinks the works produce the assurance, rather than the assurance producing the works. I strive to obey my Lord, because I want to please Him. I do not strive to obey in order to have assurance. Working with no assurance is not pleasing to God. It doesn't glorify Him. I know I will never be judged. I face no threat of condemnation. Christ has taken the full brunt of it on my behalf. Thank you, Lord.
rofyle 1 year ago
@rofyle No, you are wrong. And please DO NOT get me involved in this silly high-school anti-John Macarthur crap! Please dont!!! So let me get this through to you before this gets any worse; WE ARE SAVED ONLY BY THE GRACE OF GOD!! NOTHING ELSE!!!! The KEEPING of the commandments IS NOT what saves us, but it is the EVIDENCE of our salvation.
vekl 1 year ago
Anyone struggling with understanding verses that appear to teach a salvation loss should check out my channel, as I tackle all the one's I have heard of.
preachinshawn 1 year ago
@preachinshawn great. i look forward to seeing the video.
vekl 1 year ago
vekl
They are already done, though I may tweak 2 of them. They are individual videos that take the context into consideration.
preachinshawn 1 year ago
"The Muslims" with a pic of Obama bin Laden. LOL!
fivepointbaptist 1 year ago
@fivepointbaptist
Haha. I was waiting to see if anyone would pick up on that!
vekl 1 year ago
@Savedbygrace70
what's 'sdg'?
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl Soli Deo Gloria
fivepointbaptist 1 year ago
Great video Jay. I'm looking forward to hearing more on this topic. Thank you for posting. God Bless you and your family.
bellagrimes 1 year ago
"Deserve hell for eternity"
Absurd.
philstilwell 1 year ago
@philstilwell
why do you say that it's absurd? Do you think you deserve heaven for eternity?
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl
Veki, consider carefully the illogic in your statement.
Do you actually think not deserving hell implies deserving heaven?
Now consider what makes christians, who presumably have the "spirit of truth", blunder so badly on simple logical concepts.
There is no evidence of a spirit guiding you into truth. Don't you think it is time for you to abandon the absurdity of your faith that condemns you to make such simple error in logic, and come to reason?
philstilwell 1 year ago
@philstilwell It makes perfect sense that a non-believer who is not filled with the Spirit of God would make such arbitrary claims. You don't know about the Spirit which is why you say. The bible makes it very clear that NO MAN is worthy of heaven becuz of sin. So all have fallen short of the glory of God. This includes YOU too!!!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl
Veki, Simply take a look at your statement in response to my claim that the notion that we deserve hell is an absurdity. You clearly stated...
"Do you think you deserve heaven for eternity?"
Now either you are attempting deceit, or your are ignorantly employing illogic. Since I want to think you're a nice guy, I'm going with the latter.
Now, consider whether any spirit of truth would allow you to make such a simple logical blunder.
Your spirit of truth clearly does not exist.
philstilwell 1 year ago
@philstilwell You say that the Spirit of truth doesn't exist, huh? So tell me, what 'logic' do you base that upon? If truth doesn't exist, then by what authority do YOU have to make such arbitrary claims? According to your logic, you have no rational leg to stand on.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl
Veki, you've just committed your 2nd logical fallacy. No one said truth does not exist. I'm saying that truth does not exist within you, a rather informative observation since you claim to have the spirit of truth. Please don't intentionally and deceptively invent words for me. I want to think you're a nice guy, but a bit deluded.
You do not possess any spirit of truth as evidenced by your illogic.
philstilwell 1 year ago
@philstilwell You yourself just committed a logical fallacy by the statement you made. It's called 'begging the question'. You are yet again making arbirtrary claims that are not substantiated. You have no basis to tell me WHY you assume that the spirit of truth is not in me. Don't just tell me that I don't have it. PROVE IT!!!! Can you as an atheist prove that the spirit of truth is not in me? C'mon, let's see it!!!!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl
Veki. Pay attention this time. You claim to have the spirit of truth. You committed 2 logical fallacies. The spirit of truth, should he exist or should you possess him, does not deal in logical fallacies. Therefore you do not have the spirit of truth or the spirit of truth does not exist.
Any logical fallacies you imagine me to make can never rescue you from your own failure. That would be to fallaciously imagining my illogic makes you logical. Learn a bit of logic before invoking it.
philstilwell 1 year ago
@philstilwell You are not making any logical sense at all, guy. I think you're just wanting to argue with someone just so that you can hear yourself argue. LOL!! Just what in the world are you bothering me for, anyway? I'm still waiting for you to make logical sense of what it is that TRYING to argue defend. Come on with it, already! What SUBSTANTIAL reason do you have to make the claim that I do not have the spirit of truth?
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl
The shame of illogic is indeed a tough pill to swallow, so let me provide the fluid of a syllogism.
P1. Anyone who has the spirit of truth will not commit gross logical fallacies.
P2. You committed gross logical fallacies.
CONCLUSION: You do not have the spirit of truth as you claim.
Now simply swallow and stop suggesting you represent anything close to truth.
philstilwell 1 year ago
@philstilwell lol!!! AGAIN, you have not at all substantiated this claim of yours. You are telling me that I do not have the spirit of truth, but yet you refuse to (and you're also incapable of) tell me how is it that you know this? AGAIN, you are begging the question which is logical fallacy. You are failing MISERBALY in having a truely logical discussion. Now try again, and this time, bring the beef!!!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl
lol!!! AGIN, you huv nut at all substantieted this claim off yors that I donut hve ze Spirt of Spelling.
philstilwell 1 year ago
@philstilwell
Sorry Vekl, but I couldn't help but immortalize your insanity. Google "an apologist named vekl". ;)
philstilwell 1 year ago
Amen! Good video Brother.
God bless
1689Baptist 1 year ago
Yo Vekl.
Nice vid man, I cant wait for the next ones ^^
axemurderah17 1 year ago
@axemurderah17
Praise God!!!
vekl 1 year ago