Re: Re: The magnet motor challenge: PART 1

[BRAIDERMAN]

Supersandor - after my comments 5 months ago - you still haven't amended this video. Once again, no one is disputing that the magnetic field contains energy. What is open for discussion is that this energy should be called 'magnetic energy' or ,as I think, potential energy. It is only a matter of physics terminology.

[dan020350]

Philosophers do not agree nor disagree. But Critics always disagree. Just let people believe what they believe, everyone will be happy. If it works it works and if it doesn't move on.

[BRAIDERMAN]

Look Supersandor - no one is disputing that energy is contained within the magnetic field, because it requires an initial energy input to establish the magnetic field. I would not call that "magnetic energy". It is potential energy stored in the magnetic field. When the field finally collapses, the potential energy is given out.

[DragOzze]

You put wikipedia for the ultimate truth? moron

[supersandor]

Of course I don't consider wikipedia as the ultimate truth, fucktard.

You want me to refer you to my college physics text? "Physics for Scientists and Engineers", 2nd Edition by Fishbane, Gasiorowicz and Thornton Extended Edition, page 891. Wait. You say you don't have that on your bookshelf? Want to buy mine? I'll sell it to you for only 200 bucks. No? WELL THAT'S WHY I REFERENCED WIKIPEDIA YOU STUPID SHIT! It's easy to access! That's all. I also showed all those university websites.

Dumbass.

[supersandor]

Of course the irony is that I'm probably as qualified myself to write a physics book as the authors! So it's kind of arbitrary to even need to refer to anything else. Yet another reason to point to wikipedia. If I referred you to wikipedia to demonstrate to you that 0+0=0 if you insisted it equaled 137, I'm sure you'd deny that too. The point is this info is verifiable by an intelligent being with the capacity to do math. If you need to read it somewhere to know it you're a hopeless case anyway!

[Desertphile]

"It would seem Desertphile and a number of people who have criticized me for saying that magnetic fields contain energy lack the basic ability to use a search engine."

Magnetic fields do not contain energy that can be used to perform work. Deal with that fact.

[supersandor]

Desertphile, at this point I'm convinced you wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on the nose. I spent 15 minutes proving magnetic fields contain energy. Deal with that fact. Electromagnetics was one of the two topics I passed on the PhD qualifying exam. Deal with THAT fact. You are ignorant and you are spreading your own misconceptions, which many among your many subscribers will blindly believe because of their misplaced trust in your authority on the matter. You are a fucktard. Like Hovind.

[WandingWizard]

@Desertphile then how are like poles repelled AND opposite poles of two magnets are attracted? I'm no scholar, however, it does seem to me that to "move" anything does in fact depend on energy to perform said work of pushing and pulling(?).

Feel free to respectfully correct me with indisputable truth and fact, not theories and laws, if I presuming before motion can occur, energy is needed to perform that work... if I have been taught/tested/proven this ... wrongly ;^)

[Desertphile]

@WandingWizard ; "Feel free to respectfully correct me...."

If you wish respect, you will have to earn it---- I refuse to respect anyone who does not deserve it.

Magnetic fields are static forces: they cannot and do not contain energy of themselves---- they concert external sources of energy in to other forms of energy. I have more than a dozen videos on the subject.

[aetherix01]

You make it very clear!

Though, some people are not interested in true but to set oneselfs opinion.

BTW, why do you think magnet motors are impossible?

[supersandor]

That isn't really the issue here, but like I say, a magnetic field stores a finite amount of energy. Just like a battery. You might just as well ask why I think a battery will run dry if you try to draw current from it forever. As I said, magnets stay magnetized only because there isn't such a convenient mechanism to discharge a magnetic dipole as is the mechanism to discharge an electric dipole (battery or capacitor). But if you DID use the energy it holds, you'd be demagnetizing the magnet.

[aetherix01]

The energy of magnetic field comes from atom's energy, so it's not that limited. If you agree?

So, what if we can draw out the atomic energy through magnetic field?

Comparing magnet field whith a battery is interesting, though you must respect the proportions (regarding energy): a battery runs on chemical energy, a magnetic field on atomic energy. So, yes, the magnet whill be demagnetized, but after a very long time.

[supersandor]

You have it completely backwards. The energy stored in a permanent magnet's magnetic field is way, WAY less than the energy stored in an electrochemical battery. And it is not nuclear energy either. It is merely caused by the orientations of magnetic domains in the magnetic material. No, there is no way to use the rest-mass of a magnet through its magnetic field any more than you could say, convert a capacitor into antimatter by the mere virtue of it being electrically charged.

[aetherix01]

Sorry but I cannot agree with you there.

You say the magnetic energy "is merely caused by the orientations of magnetic domains in the magnetic material". How an orientation can produce energy?? I cannot imagine how this come.

The orientations of magnetic domains results only in magnetization of that material, but the energy of magnetic field is the sum of magnetic energies of all magnetic dipoles that form the magnetic field.

And the energy of magnetic dipoles comes from..??

[supersandor]

"Sorry but I cannot agree with you there."

This is not a debate on abortion, foreign policy or tax law. There IS a right answer. If you disagree with scientific empirical facts, you are wrong. End of story. I win.

"How an orientation can produce energy?? I cannot imagine how this come."

You may just as well say that you can't IMAGINE how the orientation of a set of dominoes stood on end could cause the set of dominoes to contain energy and then insist its energy comes from elsewhere.

[aetherix01]

"This is not a debate on abortion, foreign .."

No, this is a debate on scientific theory and facts. And I don't think there is right answer.

There is no theory largely accepted by the scientific comunity that gives a satisfactory explanation for magnetism.

The energy, what you talking about, stored in a magnetic field, is a potential energy, and is released little by little together with demagnetization of the magnet. But for sustaining the magnetic field, a different kind of energy is needed.

[supersandor]

There is no debating a fact. If you want to dispute a theory that explains facts, then provide a better theory. That's how it works. It's not a subject for lawyers.

"no theory largely accepted by the scientific comunity..."

There has been such a theory since the 19th century. It predates the special theory of relativity. Ok, I'm convinced you are proudly, deliberately ignorant and terminally stupid. I'm not going to try to educate you, live your life as a free energy nut and be happy. Bye bye.

[datzfast]

ever herd of osmotic pressure, its all about orientation.

[kilroy1964]

aetherix01, electromagnetic theory is well understood and well proven. In fact it was basically summed up in four equations well over 100 years ago! Maxwell's equations stand firm to this day. So you're argument is one of pure ignorance.

Supersandor is spot on. No atomic energy in a permanent magnet's field. Only preservation of energy from the external source that magnetized it.

[Desertphile]

"...a magnetic field stores a finite amount of energy. Just like a battery."

No.

[supersandor]

Where did you say you went to college again, and how many years did you say you spent majoring in physics and/or Electrical Engineering? Oh, that's right. You're a goat herder with no formal education. And I guess your solid "no" means you must have shut your eyes and hummed for most of the duration of the 2 videos. I guess you wouldn't acknowledge the existence of gravity if you didn't already believe in it.

[Desertphile]

One cannot get magnetic fields to perform work without adding energy to them: I suggest you try dealing with that fact.

[supersandor]

Hee haaww! Hee haaww! Magnetic fields don't contain energy, magnetic fields don't contain energy! Hee haaww! Hee haaww! No, Kevin Bacon wasn't in the movie Footloose. That was Sylvester Stallone. I win. Hee haaww! Hee haaww!

[Desertphile]

"Hee haaww! Hee haaww! Magnetic fields don't contain energy, magnetic fields don't contain energy! Hee haaww! Hee haaww! No, Kevin Bacon wasn't in the movie Footloose. That was Sylvester Stallone. I win. Hee haaww! Hee haaww!"

Appears Mental.

[supersandor]

Then allow me to explain the comment in more direct terms for you since you clearly missed the point of the satire. I was saying you were being as stubborn as a mule. Claiming things to be facts when it in reality takes terribly little researching effort to find the REAL facts. Look up Footloose. Protagonist played by Kevin Bacon. End of story. Look up magnetic field. Energy density is B dot H divided by 2. End of story. These are facts. Your claims are your misconceptions. Not facts. Ignorance.

[supersandor]

The thing that people who actually try to make free-energy magnet motors don't realize is that you have to demagnetize the magnet in the process of using its energy. Permanent magnets tend to be permanent because there are not very many common processes that tend to erase the magnetic field, since there are no magnetic monopoles. But the energy is there all the same. It's merely more convenient to use up the energy in a battery or a capacitor since electric monopoles, i.e. charge, are available.