Battle of Flodden -- part 1/6

[spspaceboy]

So James IV was the original Don Quixote! Or so our anglophile narrator would have us believe.

[happymax1]

Men in Scotland wear skirts made out of picnic blankets....

[junkman19571]

when they're independent we can go back to hating each other.....hooray

[dmax631]

the scottish stuarts were nutters, no wonder charles I was executed. You might be able to be a tyrannt in scotland, but dont try it on England

[calicheSCOT]

@dmax631 Tell that to Henry VIII. England has a long history of tyranny.

[gaiuskaiser]

It was Gods will that England and Scotland would come together as one.The Queen is a decendant of King James .Who was a direct decendant of King David.The royal line of Judah.Just do a study on the Stone of Scone aka Jacob's Pillar.Or a study on the Queens Royal Standard.

[MrBobbyjum]

James made an unwise decision, at the end of the day this was a war he didnt need to get involved in, the only mistake he made as King, albeit a very costly mistake unfortunatley.

[tatethompson1234]

My great great ect grandfather Alexand Thomson died with the king at the Battle of Flodden. King Robert the II is also my 16th great grandfather. Even tho this battle was 500 years ago im still very proud of my families and others sacrafices. Im very proud of my Scottish Heritage.

[alanheath]

Henry was advised by his advisors not to get involved in this pointless conflict. So was James.

A pity the two kings could not have fought it out between themselves leaving their advisors, nobles and common people the time to go down the alehouse and get sloshed together.

What is often forgotten is the mass suffering, starvation and disease caused by pointless wars started by young monarchs just to show how macho they are.

[calicheSCOT]

@alanheath Not just young monarchs, look at WW1.

[alanheath]

@calicheSCOT No, that is not quite the same thing - that was young people volunteering to kill each other.

[calicheSCOT]

@alanheath Because they wanted to or were persuaded by imperialist attitudes of their nations leaders?

[alanheath]

@calicheSCOT Bit of both I would say. There is no excuse for nationalist brainwashing as that is how it ends up!

[lapsiquisarcaica1]

England suck

the british are pussy ladies

Irish rules

from Argentina!!

[swollower]

@lapsiquisarcaica1 Yeah and that makes the asrgentinians.........??

[lapsiquisarcaica1]

eNGLAN SUCK!

[swollower]

@lapsiquisarcaica1 not as much as your spelling does nobby!

[lapsiquisarcaica1]

@swollower

1 second ago England suck

the british are pussy ladies

Irish rules

from Argentina!!

[lapsiquisarcaica1]

@lapsiquisarcaica1 Fuck you asshole ignorant

hablo tu puta lengua por que de hecho tu seguro no puedes hablar la mia

ingles de mierda hijo de puta

[Japanorama]

@lapsiquisarcaica1 Argentina rules? Britain fucked Argentina in the Falklands war. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO­OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[lapsiquisarcaica1]

@Japanorama you are a british cock sucker.......im not......england and usa........are falling.....some day can you see it....and fuck you mother fucker

VIVA ARGENTINA LA PUTA QUE TE PARIO

[alanheath]

@lapsiquisarcaica1 Como lo sabes? Lo conoces?

[lapsiquisarcaica1]

@alanheath mmmmmmmm...yeah

[gaiuskaiser]

@lapsiquisarcaica1 Argentina is a weak country

[Apophisguard]

That's my old mucker Tony Rotherham playing King James.

[Soulmaka2]

Gayyyyyyyyyyy

[heartofthereiver]

"These we salute and commemorate,wherever they are found,without regard to party or nationality,to victory or defeat,to rank or to the want of it.The brave,the good,are of one rank and to that rank we proudly bow!"

[heartofthereiver]

People are sidetracking,this video is about Flodden,a battle where ultimately there where no victors.Where darkness stopped the slaughter on both sides.The memorial that was erected on the site in 1910,in commemoration of the 14000 dead on both sides,was provided by both Scottish and English members of the Berwickshire Naturalists club and was unveiled on the 27th Sept.1910 at 2.30 in the afternoon with the words......

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver

I have to disagree as ultimately England was the victor. Flodden is as important to England as Bannockburn is to Scotland. Really, how often do you hear Scottish people lamenting the English levies who were sent to fight at Bannockburn, never.Yet we are supposed to see Flodden as some kind of tragedy because and lets face it, the Scots were annihilated.

It is and shall remain one of the greatest victories in English history. Rightly so.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet You class4000 Englishmen dead as a victory?

The battle has often been described as a disaster for the Scots.Well it was,but not because the Scots fought so badly,the battle was a close run thing.Surrey only claimed victory the following day when he realized the leaderless remains of the Scots army had melted away from the field.The English army were in no state to persue the Scots either as Home had made off with any English supplies that were left,which were few!

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver

Most accounts put English dead at around 1500, certainly not 4000. Still had 4000 Englishmen actually died at Flodden it would still be considered a great victory. Im not sure you understand the concept of victory and defeat all too well. With regards to Flodden, had Surrey and his army been defeated then the North and Midlands of England would have been at the mercy of James. The Englishmen who would have fought and died at Flodden came from the areas most at risk.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet You seem surprised at the English death toll being as high as 4000.That figure has always been common knowledge in this part of the country.But these figures were not just plucked from the sky at random and if you do the proper research you should come up with figures similar. The accounts that state the English death toll at 1500 to me do a great disservice to 2500 brave Englishmen that drew there final breath on that day,why the quote was so low,you tell me?

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver

The battle may have been close during certain stages(what battle wasnt?) but in the end victory was complete and the finest army ever to leave Scotland had been annihilated.

I have to ask, have you made similar 'nobody really won' comments on battles like Bannockburn or Stirling Bridge?

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet You say the finest army ever to leave Scotland had been annihilated,well 50% of this statement is true.Your use of the word annihilated shows a basic lack of understanding of the meaning of the word and your use of it in this particular situation,I find quite offensive.

Annihilation infers to me,not a man left standing and to use it in the context of Flodden is simply not true as on the morning of the 10th Home and his Borderers were still present on the field. Fact !

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver

Oh god, is it really nessecary to be so pedantic? You could easily say the British were annihilated on the first day of the Somme, yet they 'only' suffered 55% casualties. The French were also annihilated during the battles of the Frontiers(30% casualities)

The King was dead, along with the flower of his Nobility and around 10,000 men. The Scots Army had been anni...destroyed. There? Make you feel any better? Not annihilation but destruction. Im glad we could sort this.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet So cutting through your insults and the rest of your keech. Am I right in assuming that you now have,a better understanding of the word annihilation and that, it was wrong and derogatory, on your part,to use that particular word in the context of Flowdoun. (Flodden to you!)

A simple answer,not a politicians reply,would suffice.

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver

Ive just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading through no less than five of your posts, all of which say absolutely nothing and im the politician?

Strangely enough im not interested in theoretical invasions either. Ill quote myself

"Theoretical invasions of Scotland>>>>>>aside<<<<<" All i did was summarise the battle. Facts, just the facts.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet If I may be permitted the offer of advice in this situation before your reply,I find it always helps to keep a clear mind ,which means foregoing the wine gums.I always find it beneficial to allow the question to really sink in and of course it always helps to engage the brain before the mouth opens or a keypad is depressed.Lastly,detailed knowledge on the subject is always a good bonus!

[BigChiefMullet]

You can crow about research all you want. The fact is i have always tried to look at history evenly, with objectivity. With regards to Flodden, for every English account, ive read a Scottish account. Thus why ive great confidence in what i say and why i know its more than just opinion.

As a tip, if you must try defend Scotland in a battle it lost then the Battle of the Standard is a far better choice. Flodden really isnt a good choice..

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet You are right on one count,I will defend Scotland,more so against inaccuracies and derogatory remarks.

Your remarks regarding use of the word annihilation , sully the memory of the Earl of Huntly and Lord Home when they overpowered and threw into disorder the right wing of the English under Sir Edmund Howard,who was beaten down his standard taken and he himself in danger of imminent death,when,in the nick of time he was relived by the Bastard Heron and his troops.cont.

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver

Ok, so James didnt lay in pieces, he lay dead from being struck by two arrows and a gruesome hack from a Billhook! Good for him! Im glad we could resolve yet another useless,petty point. Im sure Jimmy himself would love to thank you personally when you pass over. This, followed by three meaningless, irrelevent and bizarre posts about where James body was taken after the battle. Not one single counter to what i wrote.

We're done, your argument was annihilated.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet In order for me to counter your argument,you have to have an argument in the 1st place,and basically you dont !

In fact you havent got a bloody clue what you are on about. Your lack of knowledge on this particular engagement is only too obvious to all reading your posts.

Your posts also show a blatant disregard and disrespect for the sacrifice that the men of both Scotland and England made on the bloody fields of Branxton moor.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet Use of this word also shows a lack of knowledge or understanding on your part.Your terminology in a previous post regarding " The best spoil of war for Henry was that the leader of one of his enemies lay in pieces...."also shows a blatant disregard for the truth and therefore a disrespect for the fallen,when in fact the body of the king had not been cut to pieces.He had been wounded twice by arrows when a billhook extinguished The Royal Lions flame.cont......

[heartofthereiver]

@heartofthereiver The royal corpse was therefore embalmed and taken to the monastery of Sheen in Surrey.It lay there till the Reformation,when the monastery was given to the Duke of Suffolk.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet The body was transported to Berwick and presented to Surrey and Darcy,who both knew the king,at their request!They had enough respect to do this,its a pity you didnt in your choice of words!

The body was also acknowledged by his two favourite attendants,Sir William Scott and Sir John Forman,who both wept at beholding it!

The Royal corpse could not be buried,for the Pope,being at that time in alliance with England against France,had excommunicated James...cont.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet Regarding your comments as whether I understand the concept of victory and defeat,let me assure you I fully understand .The question is do you?

"To the victor,the spoils et al"

You have an army that held the field that particular day,the flower of Scottish nobility lay cauld in the clay,Scotlands cities and towns defended by the old,the young and the infirm.The country,basically at the mercy of the English sovereign.

Spoils of victory waiting to be claimed,what happened?

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver Are you seriously trying to suggest that Flodden was some kind of stalemate?

Laughable.

Perhaps the 'English Sovereign' didnt collect the spoils of war because he was in France, along with his finest troops, fighting in the conflict that Flodden was but one part of. This may or may not have had something to do with it.

The Northern Army that had been assembled had done its job, no invasion of Scotland had been planned.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet In reply to your 2nd post in the context of replying to the question asked as to why the English army failed to follow through and claim the spoils of war,again you seem to skirt around the issue without really supplying a firm answer,(Perhaps the " English Sovereign) didnt blah blah blah."This may or may not have had blah blah blah.....

Perhaps your lack of knowledge on this particular battle governs your replies?

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet Nothing! Thats what happened.The English army failed to follow through and claim the spoils of war!The particular answer I would like to hear from yourself is why?

[BigChiefMullet]

Theoretical invasions of Scotland aside, lets just summarise Flodden.

An English Army made up mostly of the Militias of Northern England defeated a larger Scottish Army that had far more guns and was positioned atop a hill. With this victory a Scotish invasion was prevented and the threat from the North was neutralized. Surely the best 'spoil' of war for Henry was that the leader of one of his enemies(albeit a weaker enemy) lay in pieces following a battle he hadnt even needed take part in.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet In reply to your 3rd post regarding theoretical invasions,I am not concerned in theoretical theories or for that matter opinions.Opinions to me are like arseholes,everyone has one!

I prefer to deal in historical fact alone,it tends to give a clearer picture.The only downside to that ,however is the time spent in research,which may ammount to years, as opposed to the time spent in forming an opinion,which may be all of seconds,maybe minutes.

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet Now,in case you have a problem in answering the question I asked to you a few posts ago,which seems an eternity ago now!, which you have still made no reply to, I will ask you the same question a 2nd time.

Why did the "English army","English Sovereign",fail to follow up and claim the spoils of war,which would be a natural action for an all "conquering and victorious army",after Flowdoun?

[BigChiefMullet]

@heartofthereiver

I thought i *had* answered your question.I guess just not in a way you could respond properly to?

OK, lets try this again.

The English Sovereign was in France, fighting a war with his best troops. Henry(the English Sovereign) wished to do what his ancestors could not and become king of France. He used the War of the League of Cambrai as an excuse to do this. The bulk of English resources were geared towards this goal.........cntd

[BigChiefMullet]

Thus the reason why the English army at Flodden was made up mostly of County Militias. Bloody as it may have been, Flodden was a sideshow. The King of France had requested James invade England as a way of distracting Henry from the war in France and with the Scots sound defeat at Flodden this plan utterly failed.

The English Army at Flodden was not geared to mount an invasion of Scotland. Its sole purpose was to defend England from Scotland. Cntd...

[BigChiefMullet]

Defend England is something that did...(to avoid offending you) well. It did its job well. The threat from the North was neutralized and although Henry would ultmately fail, for the time being he was free to pursue his dreams of becoming French Regent. I hope this can shed some light on the matter and hopefully you will begin to grasp the difficulties of Henry mounting an invasion of Scotland when he wasnt even in England!

[heartofthereiver]

@BigChiefMullet The battle of Flodden was a disaster for the Scots because of the nobility of the men who died in it,but no Scot should feel bitter about what happened at Branxton,because unlike William Wallace at Stirling Bridge and Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn,King James 1V and his army,were the aggressors at Flodden.

[JuanMacready]

Henry VIII was definitely the greatest monarch England ever had.

[jimbob1969]

The Stewarts were a bunch of dicks.

[BillDFC]

The Picts never invaded England,their kingdom only reached as far south as the Lothians.

When the Northumbrians invaded in 685 they were defeated by the Picts at Dunnichen in Angus.

[Thompsonf1001]

i think they over did james' "romance" in this

again england writing the history books, or documentuarys in this case

[ingerlander]

A battle that nobody seems too familiar with called Pinkie Cleuch in 1547 took more Scots lives than this one. 10,000 in fact.

[ingerlander]

I t could be argued that the least unknown of all Scottish / English battles, that being the Battle of Pinkie Cleuch where 10,000 Scots died was a bigger blow to them than Flodden.

[Germankaviar]

Interesting - the scottish King is adressed as typical "despotic singular ruler who loves war" ..while "henry VIII" also a none democratic King, is viewed in the typical "great King" image ...

it's every time hillarious to see modern documentations still working with the same subliminal methods like ancient propaganda

"the good and the bad Emperor"

[j3parrots]

An englishman an irishman and a scottsman walk into a pub and the barman says "What the fuck is this... some kind of joke". Comments on these videos are bullshit.

[Hemps]

I had family on both sides. I am a descendant of Lord Thomas Howard. However, ironically, I am a descendant of a prominent Scottish Border clan.

[karlkarlkarl1234]

No you're not. You're most likely just some really obese dude who smashes 50 bongs a day and is unemployed so has to make a life by dreaming up ancient noble connections during his THC-induced mania.

[Hemps]

While most of your reply is true, I'm actually being serious.

[depture]

Well your ancstor was weak then?

[mazarini]

I'm Irish, death to England!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedayitriedtodie]

« King james IV of Scotland was(..) a prince ..»

wtf??

[25ghr]

The SCOTS invaded England many times, Flodden was a needless ,battle fought on behalf of the French King James was married to Henrys sister Margaret ,and Scotland was doing well ,they had a fine Navy and was almost as equal to England in many respects ,the BATTLE was lost for many reasons ,Surrey was a better General than James , also the ground suited the English bills and polearms ,and the English had better German Gunners

[BillDFC]

I am not really interested in England.

Just want my country back the same as the Irish or any nation does.

[TheMrGobble]

Tough shit, we own you.

[BillDFC]

Asia and Africe own you now...you reap what you sow......

[TheMrGobble]

Fair play to em. We still own you drunkards.

[axelfoaly10]

As a proud Scot and Brit i dont have a problem with English people at all,they are a proud people and rightly so.I wish we could all work together and respect each other to make Britain better in the future.If any nationalists have a grievance with England historically they are wrong because we would have oppressed England in medieval times if we had the means to,bullying small countries was normal.The Stuart kings and the evil catholic church damaged Scotlands people far more than England did.

[25ghr]

Well said mate ,I love history and FLODDEN is my favourite battle, Iam a Scot and live in England and have met many nice people here ,United we stand divided we fall ,and I do not like Alex Salmond ,or the SNP .

[BillDFC]

Keep the bigotry for Ibrox please.

[alanheath]

@axelfoaly10 Well said. Hundreds of years of pointless conflict separated us and look what we achieved united!

[ingerlander]

Thistlewarrior

Even shorter answer. You will get independence when, instead of the Scots being asked if they want independence, the English are asked "do you want them to have independence".

[ingerlander]

billdfc

Stop wallowing in your cherished role of victim and just read your history. Scots history tends to start at one end of the bar and by the time it has reached the other the English are to blame for everything including the weather. When will that sorry little damp hovel ever move on.

[thistlewarrior]

LONG ANSWER: When people like yourself stop calling our country things like "sorry little damp hovel".

SHORT ANSWER: When we get independence.

[BillDFC]

For over 400 years English amies marched over the border to destroy towns,burn the abbeys and murder the populous of Scotland.

A small nation bullied by her much larger and wealthier neighbour.

[BigChiefMullet]

Yet you post this on a video about a battle that was fought in England and involved an INVADING Scots army.

The Scots crossed the border as frequently and were as ruthless as any English force that went North. But please carry on playing the victim..

[Japanorama]

@BigChiefMullet Yes this is true I agree with you, but it's a fact that the first to invade was England. That is a historical fact.

[tiree2007]

@BigChiefMullet I agree :) As a Scot and studying scottish history, invading scottish armies, mainly around the time of bruce were far more ruthless than the english in scotland.

[ADZ01982]

@BillDFC English Scottish conflicts first began in the 6th century AD and did not end until the end of the 17th century. Thats over a thousand years of conflict. You will see that the vast majority of the battles were fought in England against an invading Scottish Emipire. Bar a few years of Semi English occupation of Scotland all other battles were fought in England.

[BillDFC]

@ADZ01982 That in nonsense.

[ADZ01982]

@BillDFC Hmmm you wanna be more specific ? Scots always feel like the victims but the Scots were the aggressors most of the time. Scots need to except the fact they were a war loving warrior nation same as the English we battled each other non stop because thats just the way the world was then.

[BillDFC]

@ADZ01982 In the 6th. Century Scotland and England were not the defined nations they are today. It wasn't until the 12th.C that the present border was vaguely created and tended to be flexible.

England,being a larger,more populous and wealthy nation, always wanted to expand. Thus they invaded France,Wales,Scotland and Ireland.

Nearly all major conflicts between Scotland and England took place on Scottish soil. FACTS only please!

[ADZ01982]

The Picts were the main Tribe in what is now Scotland and had influence into Northumbria. The Picts were attacking what were now English people since Roman times and more frequent when they left. The Saxons were invited to settle to protect the English people from the Scots. The Scots and Irish attempted to destroy the English people at Brunanburgh 937 AD.

[ADZ01982]

@BillDFC This poorly recalled battle is actually one of the most important in British history since Athelstan's crushing defeat of the combined Norse-Celtic force facing him irrevocably confirmed England as an Anglo-Saxon kingdom. He was militarily weakened however and the battle effectively forced all the kingdoms of the British Isles to consolidate in the positions they occupy today.

[5000433]

Thanks LMS great posting. Only treatment of this on the web!

And Catherine was in charge at the time! Sort of minding things :)

[grimerwormtong]

Oh dear where to start ? 1st and least interesting. Man on the moon ? You say you put a man on the moon at a time when other countries could only get into orbit and when technology was very primitive in 1969. Nasa is planning a moon landing in about 2020. Why does it take 51 years to go again. Could it be the USA pulled off the biggest con of the 20th century ? Please dont get me wrong unlike you I am not an ignorant racist. I like the Americans. So my remarks are directed at you !

[Albukhshi]

"could it be the USA pulled off the biggest con of the 20th century?"

no-the USSR would have ferreted that one out. besides, the first one left a posting that a texas observatory still uses for observation of the moon.

as to why no moon landing occurred in 36 (not 51) years? money.

the moon landings were damn expensive, and America was in the middle of Vietnam. the economic hardships of the 70's didn't help any, of course.

look up Bogosity-moon landing hoax. very enlightening.

[Urinesauce]

Scotsmen, you can shove Braveheart up your arse.

[billyysands]

mind your tongue anglias..

nationalistic about what fish and chips?

warm beer?

the queen?

they we dont have a culture i'll bloody well take a hot dog over warm beer and boiled sheeps intestines any day

-yankee doodle

and just remeber if it werent for us youd be speaking german!

[Urinesauce]

You mind YOUR tongue cheeky bastard.

Nationalistic about the fact we come from the most feared barbarian warriors in Europe, the Saxons, the fact we have ruled more than half the world, the fact that many great inventions have come from Britain and if we hadn't invented them the world would be a very backward place still, and also we wouldn't be speaking German we'd likely speak English and German which is fine with me seeing as the English are from Germany. Anglias? wtf.

[billyysands]

yeah well look at you now fear warriors me arse.I'm part Nrowegian and I bleived the saxons ran and hid their silver and women when my lot came,you ever heard of Harald Hardrada? lol in 1066 half my ancestors invaded Britian ,and were defeated by Harold Godwinson

at the Battle of Stamford Bridge,It marked the end of the Viking age and beginning of the High Middle Ages

[billyysands]

three weeks later the other have of my DNA invaded your feirce little Saxon Island

William the Bastard was a Norman(The Normans were the people who gave their names to Normandy, a region in northern France. They descended from Viking conquerors of the territory and the native population of mostly Frankish and Gallo-Roman stock)

[billyysands]

oh really? it was the Saxons who conquered half the world was it?

and who conquered and subjegated the Saxons? eh?sur vos genoux ! Chien de Saxon

[billyysands]

well you didnt invent the internet did you we did..youd be in the pub playing ddarts and drinking warm beer instead of talking to the world.and if it weren't for us

youd be the smallest f*cking province in the russian empire, fancy that?

[Woody263]

Wow you're ungrateful for the efforts of Britain....such a pity. As for that last sentance; well you can switch that right around. When you learn about WWII, you never learn about the "great fucking efforts of.....America?" no, you don't. It's Britain all the way - every lesson.

YOU'D PICK A HOT DOG??!! really?? well America can't make beer for the life of them so I can see why.

[billyysands]

canada has good beer

we saved your limey ass

[billyysands]

The Norman conquest of England began in 1066 AD with the invasion of the Kingdom of England by the troops of William, Duke of Normandy ("William the Conqueror"), and his victory at the Battle of Hastings.

[billyysands]

This resulted in Norman control of England, which was firmly established during the next few years. The Norman Conquest was a pivotal event in English history for several reasons. It largely removed the native ruling class, replacing it with a foreign, French-speaking monarchy, aristocracy and clerical hierarchy.

[billyysands]

This in turn brought about a transformation of the English language and the culture of England. By subjecting the country to rulers originating in France it linked England more closely with continental Europe, while lessening Scandinavian influence, and set the stage for a rivalry with France that would continue intermittently for more than eight centuries

[billyysands]

The USSR's launch of Sputnik spurred the United States to create the Advanced Research Projects Agency, known as ARPA, in February 1958 to regain a technological lead. ARPA created the Information Processing Technology Office (IPTO) to further the research of the Semi Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) program, which had networked country-wide radar systems together for the first time. J. C. R. Licklider was selected to head the IPTO, and networking as a potential unifying human revolution.

[billyysands]

The opening of the network to commercial interests began in 1988. The US Federal Networking Council approved the interconnection of the NSFNET to the commercial MCI Mail system in that year and the link was made in the summer of 1989.

[billyysands]

While the Sputnik 1 launch can clearly be called the start of the Space Race, its end is more debatable. Most hotly contested during the 1960s, the Space Race continued apace through the U.S. Apollo moon landing of 1969

you did not put a man on the moon either did you? we did..a bunch of mongrelized

half starved immigrants beat you

i bet that pisses you right off doesnt it?

SAXON

[PNETriffid]

Billysands,

Do you ever stop talking? 'Smallest province in the Russian Empire' and 'all be speaking German by now'. Firstly, exceptionally unoriginal; secondly, nothing to do with Flodden at all.

[stormmycrystal]

we can always count on lil miss for the best vids ;o)xoxx

[madmanninc]

I love the royal armouries vids they're great!

[fep70]

In 1502 James IV signed The Treaty of Perpetual Peace with England.

Did he really think the Auld Alliance was more important? Or was it a case of thinking England would be easy pickings because of so many soldiers fighting against France?

Jimmy four can burn in hell!

[katharinethequene]

Im Scottish but Katherinee did a great job as regent, I know she wasnt involved in the battle blah blah blah but she rode out and led with some of the troops (with pregnant as well) and adressed them, she was a warrior queen and proved she could govern a country as well as any man

[dtdloixnabalu]

I dont agree.

[lookinglass123]

neither do I!

[littlemisssunnydale]

We have no idea whether she made a speech in front of her troops - the only account of this is in one Spanish report and no other account (including English sources and official papers) attest to this. So the matter is inconclusive. Furthermore she was not involved in the battle - the earl of Surrey won the day and he was placed in command by Henry VIII.

[BullRun1861]

At the time of Flodden, Henry VIII was tied up in a war on the European continent. An invasion of England via Scotland was designed to pull England's attention from France. England had to face this alliance, Scotland and France, a number of times.

Unfortunately the Scots, brave as they were, often found themselves outgeneraled. In war it is often leadership and tactics, not numbers, that determines the victor (ie Wellington at Waterloo, Henry V at Agincourt).

[BigChiefMullet]

Lets not put Scottish victories down to bravery and English ones down to superior generalship. Using Flodden as an example the Scottish troops were as much out fought by their English opponents as King James was himself out thought by the Earl of Surrey.

[25ghr]

Generalship in most Battles is Important ,the Scottish pikes were certainly a major factor in them losing the Battle James thought he could copy the Landsknecht tactics, which proved a disaster, there were many good fighters on the Scottish side ,but in a large battle this can count for nothing

[BillDFC]

Wellinton at Waterloo? The Prussians swung the balance at Waterloo, remember?

The highest percentage per capita of Wellington's British army were made up of men from Skye.

[nobbytang]

did not know about the % of scots serving and very interesting , many crucial moments at waterloo but it was the guardsman with Maitland in command that turned the french imperial guard back on the ridge to cause the collapse . I respect the scottish fighting spirit but english fighting spirit too was of a high quality and often English victories are overlooked or belittled . by the way bill is dfc for dundee fc

[funchompers]

does anyone know how the 'Howard' liniage carried on? ....it is purely out of personal intrest, I myself live in Ireland but I'm a Howard which clearly isnt an Irish name so I was wonderig might there be any connections? =)

[epicxpvperx1]

scotland win all battles at stirling castle .!also such as bannockburn batle

The Scottish victory was complete and, although full English recognition of Scottish independence was not achieved until more than ten years later, Robert Bruce's position as king was greatly strengthened by the events at Bannockburn.

[BullRun1861]

Bannockburn could have been a disaster for Robert the Bruce. Edward Bruce committed the Scots to fight at Bannockburn in spite of his brother's desire to avoid pitched battle with English armies (Bruce used guerilla, hit & run tactics).

The victory may be attributed to Edward II's disastrous decision; instead of using the 5,000 bowmen at his disposal he sent his mounted knights/men-at-arms to break the schillitron. If Edward I was in command it might have been Falkirk all over again.

[BillDFC]

The Earls of Dunbar and Angus betrayed Wallace's position to the English before Falkirk.

The Welsh longbow won the day for the English.

[nobbytang]

yes but it was english bow men drawing the strings and pushing the bow . Englands greatest victory against the scotch was dupplin muir when the english really learnt how to use the bow with dis mounted heavy infantry.

[BigChiefMullet]

Thats the second time you have accused me of making things up.You're really finding it quite hard to accept that for many battles the Scots actually had the numerical advantage.

By most accounts i have read(English and Scottish sources) there were around 16000 to 18000 Scottish troops and roughly 3000 English at Solway Moss. But again you dont have to take my word for it, simply research the battle and you'll get similar numbers.

[25ghr]

Solway moss was a route there numbers were actually a disadvantage and the chain of command broke down,the English BORDERERS new the country side well and caused mayhem in the badly led SCOTS, also Scots borderers !!attacked the flleeing Scots Army adding to the Route ,Bye the way Iam a Scot ,I like historical fact not Tartan nonsense

[SquareHeadSlacker]

RES ATHETH SCOTIA BITCHES

[Wingdoss]

The Scots were always the French's bitch. They got nothing out of the Auld Allience but grief.

[innit27]

Not totally true, in 1548 the French came to Scotland in force and helped to kick out the occupying English forces. You might have noticed in history that the English were constantly invading and trying to control Scotland (and Wales and sometimes France and a lot of other places later on), but the locals didnt like that very much. It was a fairly obvious tactic to have an alliance with France, as thy enemys enemy is thy friend.

[Wingdoss]

True, the tactic is obvious, but the French got a lot more out of it than the Scots.

[descending1]

My family had a cotton plantation in the 1800's called Flodden Field. It was in Mississippi.

[ADZ01982]

LOL Where are all the Scots bragging about how they always kick the Englishs ass ?

[BillDFC]

England has at least 10 times Scotland's population,so it's hardly surprising they usually came out on top.

But we're still here! Alba gu Brath!

[BigChiefMullet]

The Scottish outnumbered the English at Flodden.

Same with many of the battles fought between the two countries actually, since the Scots tended to invade when the main English army wasnt in England. Ut! Ut! ;)

[BillDFC]

I know that was the case at Flodden,but this was exceptional,as most battles between the two nations were on Scottish soil and the English usually had the numerical advantage.The Scots never had a standing army.

[BigChiefMullet]

It wasnt exceptional at all.

Only recalling major battles that i can think of at the moment, the Scots outnumbered the English at the Standard 1138, Dunbar 1296, Halidon 1333, Homildon 1402, Nevilles Cross 1346 and Solway Moss 1542.

[BillDFC]

Sorry,but you are making some of this up now!

[BigChiefMullet]

Huh? I gave you the names of the battles and the years they were fought if you dont believe then trying researching them yourself. Also all of the battles i listed bar Dunbar(obviously) were fought on English.

The Scots outnumbered the English by around 6-1 at Solway Moss, a fairly humiliating defeat by most accounts.

[BillDFC]

Solway Moss was more of a minor skirmish if I remember correctly.Not on the scale of Stirling Bridge,Falkirk or Bannockburn when a host of English,Welsh and Irish massed against Lowland Scots farmers.

[BigChiefMullet]

There were around 20,000 men involved at Solway Moss, in terms of numbers a major battle. There were few casualties because the Scots broke so quickly.

[BillDFC]

You are pulling numbers out of a hat!

[SquareHeadSlacker]

No he is correct, everyone assumes the scots are the underdogs, but thats not always the case.

[BillDFC]

No,not always,but when a small country is on the receiving end of the expansionist plans of a larger country,it usually is.

David v. Goliath.

[SquareHeadSlacker]

You know the populations were not as different as they are now right?

[BillDFC]

The ratio was about the same 12 to 1.

[SquareHeadSlacker]

No, the ratio was far less. I'm not sure the exact figure but in the 1200s the ratio was like 3 to 1, and that figure didn't change until the 1500s.

[Fricasso79]

At the time of Flodden, the population of England was about 2 to 2.5 million. Scotland had a population of no less than 0.5 million, and probably closer to 1 million. So there was not the same disparity between the populations as there is today.

[BullRun1861]

At Bannockburn, the Scots were badly outnumbered (4,000 - 6,500 to estimated 25,000) but at Flodden it was a lot closer. The numbers were roughly even, so it came down to tactics and leadership.

[ADZ01982]

Scots outnumbered us 3 to 1 at nevilles cross and we hammmered yous

[deligthelf]

They should do this with MTW2.

[robkitchuk1991]

A large number of my family died at Flodden. The Borthwicks fought for Scotland, mainly as the video said commanding the scottish cannons.

[Wingdoss]

Four of my ancestors were responsible for helping capture those guns.

[longbow1415]

One of the great many English victories.

FOREVER ENGLAND

[BigChiefMullet]

An outnumbered English army made up chiefly of common folk fought and defeated an invading Scots force.

One of the greatest battles in English history.

[Vincent100A]

Thank's for posting this. I haven't seen it in years. I am the King of Scotland in this.

Had great fun doing it.

It's nice to know that people care enough about this battle that is always overlooked in the history books.

Tony_ Jack Vincent ( King James)

[morganspice]

Cool!

[Wingdoss]

Company of the White Boar??

[BillDFC]

The flo'ers o' the forest are a' wede awa'....

[doddsoreric]

Thank you so much. I come from the borders and this battle is always overlooked in history. fantastic post.

[persephonethemad]

Very interesting, thank you for posting this.

[littlemisssunnydale]

No problem!!