"America's health care system is second only to Japan, Canada, Sweden, Great Britain, well...all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don't live in Paraguay!"
If you look at all the videos of the author of this one you will notice what they all have in common?............FOX "NEWS".
How much is the US medical insurance lobby's paying fox? or is fox scaremongering in order not to lose their advertising revenue from the American medical companies?
The deal is if you have a serious issue its dealt with pretty quickly, on the flip side its means that a small problem that does not require immediate attention can have a long wait time. However, when you leave the hospital it costs nothing................You have the right to seek a quicker more costly solution outside Canada if you wish. I have lived in Canada for 37 years and can't tell you one negative story about the system.......................PEACE
What a load of crap. I'm Canadian who has used the health care service in Canada, I have nieces and nephews and a very old grandmother who also regularly use the health care system, and they have had no problems. Canada has a great health care system, and Americans should be so lucky. So....Good luck, America....
I've heard a lot of debate.I have received very good care in Canada but they have found a walkin clinic where there is along wait.;but they are there for those who couldn't see their doctor that day and if they were emergencies that is where they would go.If the US wanted Universal coverage,we pay far less.How about this? That walk in clinic could be run privately; elite private care.Then you would have both. Private US Insurance is a disaster and needs to go
I'm sorry to hear you had to wait to get stitches once. I have lived in Canada for 39 years and myself, my family and my friends have thankfully all recieved good health care when it's been needed.
so covering everybody is bad? well what if private insurance covered everybody?would that hurt their profits? yes.....we should have a gov.option for people who agree with it,and let the conservatives use the sick for profit system,since they worship it.i want a moral pro life government (pro-life incudes healthcare)
Part of a free system. It happens everywhere in Canada. You don't hear about it because you will get NO MEDICAL attention if as a Canadian you speak up!
As a Canadian, this video makes me laugh. We do have our problems in Canada, but this news brief is soooo biased. Got to love Fox News! So many clips and interview statements appear to be taken out of context. LOL
The really interesting question that the RETARDED American media often ignore is: if the Canadian population were as LARGE as the US population, how much LONGER would the waiting time be?
In this era of technology, it's AMAZINGLY sad that some Americans're so stupid that they don't even know the population of Canada is ONLY about 11% of the US population.
Canada's healthcare system is so poor, that last year alone, almost 66 million Canadians came to the US as Health tourists. And if you think that's bad, what about the pregnant British woman (who use the same style Health system as Canada) who was waiting nearly 3 years to have her baby, had to come to the USA to have it delivered. It seems Canada is going down the same road as Pakistan, Britain and India. A third world backwater.
@MadHabber93 Yes word has reached me about those Canadian farmboys up there in the sticks. Big eared, wide-eyed gormless looking critters, with an Adam's apple so huge it looks as if they're constantly trying to shallow a ballcock.
@angels77100 Yes, very true. And do you know we all still drive horse and buggy. Ignore the fact I'm using the modern technology of internet. I'm actually sending smoke signals to relatives in the States and they are transcribing my words onto something you call a keyboard. Very interesting inventions you have there in the U.S.
My brother got a concussion 1 year ago. Accidentally ran into a car with his bike. We took him to the local hospital and waited only about 20 minutes before seeing a doctor and getting x rays.
I bet that many clinics and hospitals in the US look the exact same with very similar waiting times. It varies so much depending on where you go. The so called lowered wait times in the US also mean you get to have treatment faster 1. If you have the money and 2. At the expense of someone else's health and potentially life. That isn't a way I want a health care system run in my country.
@lonelytrixter Well, the Canadian population is only 11% of the US population. I'm just surprised that the waiting time in Canada can be so long (of course the same problem exists in the US as well). I'm surprised that you made the point that some Americans can receive the treatment faster at the expense of someone else's health and potentially life. Keep in mind that some people in the US are able to receive the treatment faster because of their serious conditions not because of the money.
@ttiiyy The Canadian population being smaller is largely irrelevant due to the fact that it has no bearing on the patient to doctor ratio.
The second point I was trying to make is that in the US many people cannot even access health care facilities, beyond emergency room treatment, simply due to costs which means that the people who don't have money are left without any help.
@ttiiyy This means that those with money essentially are able to see a doctor faster because you have many people that cannot afford to see one at all, thus lowering the number of people even able to go receive health care in the first place. This leads to a system that is drastically tilted toward the wealthy and affluent, they receive care faster at the expense of another person's health.
@lonelytrixter I don't know much about your background, but maybe you've never lived in the US. Let's get real, EVEN IN CANADA, some bloody rich people get special treatments at hospitals. However, in the US, those patients with serious conditions will be able to receive faster treatments at the discretion of the doctors and nurses. It's not as if US medical professionals only care about rich Americans. If our doctors're all so greedy, you won't see them VOLUNTEERING in African countries.
@ttiiyy The special treatments in hospitals does happen but is a lot more minimized. Actually it is illegal in Canada for private clinics or hospitals to set their own price and charge residents for it. Instead prices are at a fixed rate set by the provincial government and our taxes foot the bill (still costs for non residents barring emergency accidents). There are some things where paying extra or insurance will get perks or a private hospital room but again the special treatment is minimal.
@ttiiyy I never claimed all doctors in the US only cared about money or were 100% greedy, however the system is still far more tilted to favour richer people than the one in Canada. There is a fair amount of other problems I've seen and read about like for profit insurance that discriminates on preexisting conditions or tries to avoid paying out money for the product they are supposed to be guaranteeing at all costs. Preventative care is sorely lacking as well.
Canada's Life expectancy: about rank 11 of all the countries...
U.S's Life expectancy: rank 36 of all countries...
so, in reality, this is all bullocks, statistics and personal experience tell me that this is all a lie to protect corporative interests of the health care companies.
Johnrosssssss, Fox News isn't the best way to present your argument. Even most Americans won't take you seriously. And oh no, you waited for your "easy stich" while someone with breathing problems or a broken bone went before you. What kind of system is that? lol
How can you use "cracked my head open" and "bleeding so bad" with "I waited over 3 hours for a easy stich"? Sounds like your trying to twist the truth.
The only reason I would say to Americans to not buy this bull is that I actually like America. I have lived my life in Canada and our system is great and would not trade it for the USA system. Look up Tommy Douglas and ask why did Canadians vote him the greatest Canadian ever.
In Canada, a heart attack is more important then an ear ache. Who knew? This video is a joke. Waiting times? get serious. The heathcare here has been top notch sence day one. In Canada, i dont mind waiting 10 mins so the elderly lady can get her medicine. I really dont.
@HockeyFights1890 I agree with u my friend let us speak up yankees want our system those jerks know it. what a shock go to hospital how much insurance do u have u are asked but i am not buying a house. how much money do u have why do u want to go mcdonalds they would denie jesus
FOX is right when lived there we use to have to wait for hours every damn time we had to go.usually just to get a bone relocaited or something simple it would take all day into late night. If we had a problem that needed tests done it would take months just for them to get us the paper work!
America (US of) has AN EVEN WORSE shortage of primary care doctors than Canada! The bias in fees commanded by specialists produces way too many specialists and specialist procedures in the US (which costs more) and too little in the way of basic heath care.
@Johnrosssssss Okay... so in America, you would have to go to a hospital, wait for them to check if your HMO actually covers what happened to you. Wait several hours for paperwork. Pay several hundred dollars for an MRI out of your own pocket, probably and get 10-15 minutes with a doctor to do the exact same thing... Unless you have literally thousands of dollars of disposable income, the American health care system simply doesn't work.
I usually wait around 45 minutes when i go to the clinic in Canada and if you go at none busy times its even faster. But ofcourse in FOX time thats about a 5 hour wait
This is the usual propaganda from Fox News. Walk-in clinics are there for people who need to see a doctor other than their regular doctor. They are not meant to be for emergencies. Ask any Canadian if they would prefer the system that exists in the US; they would say 'no'.
Canadians on average live 3 years longer than Americans. I think that's pretty compelling evidence.
@mcresearch Considering the population difference between Canada and The United States, it would be irrelevant to compare their life expectancies. Also, USA has more obesity than Canada = more diseases = more death at an early age.
Secondly, many patients go to walk-in clinics because they do NOT have a family doctor to go to. In a city in Alberta, they have lotteries on who can get a family doctor or not.
Lastly, American system gives direct access to specialized doctors. Canada does not.
@NikG1092 The whole idea of an average is to allow fair comparisons between populations of different size. You may want to ask why there is more obesity in the US - is it also because it's a bigger country?
Secondly, our health care system isn't perfect and has its flaws. There are shortages and limitations. It still provides care to everyone regardless of income.
Lastly, a doctor's referral to a specialist saves money and eliminates time wasters.
NikG... they don't have a lottery for doctors here in Alberta even in the cities. You have a legal right to choose your doctors even in the city! I was a patient due to brain cancer and had a neurosurgeon assigned to me in less than 5 weeks last year. Wait time was fairly short on admission into hospital.
We have issues but I would never trade my OHIP card for American sytyle insurance! (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) It is remarkable that what it is is actually insurance covered by the government funded by taxes. You don't need to spend on Private insurance and most of our system(70%) is actually privately run. We have choice and our fundamental belief that your country is only as strong as your weakest most vulnerable citizens is what drives our social values! Public Insurance public hospitals
@TheRevolutionCanada go read tommy douglas u spend 9gop on health care over 34 americans are not covered .
Canada we spend 7 % GOP on health care EVERY MAN WOMAN & CHILD IS COVERED. go read Tommy Douglas. Universal Health Care works stop listening to the Fear Mongers
So let me get this straight...it would be far more effective having the government make decisions regarding my health matters rather than the licensed doctors themselves. Makes so much sense!! And where is the respect for ALL citizens here? Our hardworking tax paying money is paying for lower quality health care that is supposed to be "free". Wake up, people..!
That's the thing, American health concerns aren't looked by the licensed doctors. The doctors must first contact your insurance company and they have final say on to perform or deny.
so weird our life expentancy is better then yours... in fact your the western country with the lowest life expentancy. i never had a goverment bureaucrat get between me and my doctor... but keep shooting your talking points
This video is SOOO over exagerated and biased!!! I was born in America, but have lived in Canada with my family for the last few years. The universal health care system in Canada has been amazing. Every system has its flaws.
@vintage007 Then you sir are a treasonous, traitor. Of course you're gonna say that. You Canadian lover. Canada was, is, and hopefully always will be our enemy.
The concept of a right pertains only to ACTION specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
The ACTION of an insurance company bureaucrat making your medical decisions strrips you of your rights. The ACTION of providing health care for EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN give Canadians more rights and far better health care than Americans denied their rights by the insurance company takeover of US health care.
A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right a mans right to his own life. The right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life
If you were a CANADIAN CITIZEN, you would realize how much better health care you have than you had in the US and would never go back to that inferior health that Americans have. You have no idea how much better Canadian health care is until you actually USE Canadian health care, as I actually USED the inferior American health care system for the 7 years I lived in the US.
Your slavery to the US insurance takeover of health care will result in being denied care when you need it most. Insurance-run health care results in Americans living almost THREE YEARS LESS than Canadians because of the slavery of US insurance-run health care which will end your life prematurely compared to your life span if you were a Canadian with Canadian health care
If US insurance-run health care is supposed to be so good, why do Americans have much shorter lifespans than the 18 other industrialized nations that have universal health care?
Slavery to the insurance companies' takeover of the US health care costs Americans their lives, and they would live longer if they had Canadian health care instead.
These are undisputable facts. The average lifespan of a Canadian male is 76. The average lifespan of an American male 73. The average lifespan of a Canadian female is over 83. The average lifespan of an American female 79.
I repeat, slavery to the insurance takeover of American health care cost Americans their lives, which would be longer if they were Canadians, mainly because Canadian health care is superior to the insurance-run health care that Americans have. Insurance-run health care kills more Americans than homicide and auto accidents in the US combined. In addition, 225,000 Americans die because of medical mistakes, mostly from unnecessary surgery, according to the AMA.
socialized countries piggyback on American excellence. You should be sending fruit cakes to American Pharma. Companies for saving millions of lives with their R&D that they do FOR PROFIT
Not in any way the case. The only people who have to wait for a short time are those with purely elective procdures and that's only because people with urgent and serious conditions are treated urgently. In the US however, the pets of the rich get better treatment than the American middle class and poor who get third world health care.
Z, you can bring up any topic you want to try and defeat my argument of individual rights, but no matter what you try and talk about, you'll lose, because history, and reality are on my side. So go ahead, and jump from premise to premise, not addressing anything I say for as long as you want, you'll run out of dumb shit to say eventually.
Except they're not on YOUR side which is why we're having this debate.
You're so in love with this concept of "individual rights" you can't see that those rights are not restricted by ALSO acknowleding you are part of a community and that you BENEFIT from being a member. Being a completely atomized "individual" is an illusion. Yes, you have individual rights but the "individual" benefits when the community benefits -- when everyone is educated and everyone is healthy.
So long as a concept such as the public interest is regarded as a valid principle to guide legislation lobbies and pressure groups will necessarily continue to exist. Since there is no such entity as the public, since the public is merely a number of individuals, the idea that the public interest supersedes private interests and rights, can have but one meaning: that the interests and rights of some individuals take precedence over the interests and rights of others.
If so, then all men and all private groups have to fight to the death for the privilege of being regarded as the public. The governments policy has to swing like an erratic pendulum from group to group, hitting some and favoring others, at the whim of any given moment—and so grotesque a profession as lobbying (selling influence) becomes a full-time job. If parasitism, favoritism, corruption, and greed for the unearned did not exist, a mixed economy would bring them into existence.
Since there is no rational justification for the sacrifice of some men to others, there is no objective criterion by which such a sacrifice can be guided in practice. All public interest legislation (and any distribution of money taken by force from some men for the unearned benefit of others) comes down ultimately to the grant of an undefined, undefinable, non-objective, arbitrary power to some government officials. continued...
The worst aspect of it is not that such a power can be used dishonestly, but that it cannot be used honestly. The wisest man in the world, with the purest integrity, cannot find a criterion for the just, equitable, rational application of an unjust, inequitable, irrational principle.
Um sorry "professor" you don't get to ASSIGN me material. I should go search out some opinion piece by someone with no doubt as archaic and Protestant an atitude towards the poor as yourself? Go read about 18th & 19th century workhouses and labour schemes and how "making the poor uncomfortable" just kills them. Those by the way are FACTS not opinions.
"Go read about 18th & 19th century workhouses and labour schemes" - Thats pretty funny that you tell me to go read history, especially about the 18 and 19th centuries. You mean that time in world history where we had the largest growth in industry, life expectancy, technology, population growth, ect? Oh no, there were poor people who worked? Oh My....that must have been horrible. All those people who would've died in the 17th century, had to LIVE.....and work? What a terrible thing.
if the 18th and 19th centuries were so bad for the poor, how come thats the time in human history where the "Middle Class" was created? Why were so many more people able to live and support themselves in those centuries than in past centuries? Was it because of those evil rich people exploiting them? Is that why they lived instead of died?
Let's see -- in the 18th century how many millions of Africans were enslaved in the New World? A slave had a life expectancy of 7 years during which they were literally worked to death. The British abolished slavery in the 1830s but the elites still did everything they could to deny the blacks land, education, legal rights.
In the 1840s something like a third of Ireland's population (the poorest) died or had to leave. The famine was from God but the Poor Laws were from man and killed thousands.
You've got some nerve bringing up slavery. If it wasn't for americas founding fathers, and the idea of individual rights, who knows where we would be right now. It's the ideas that I'm trying to get into your thick skull that eventually defeated slavery.
" The famine was from God " - how come there has never been famine in a country that observed individual rights? Oh...thats right, because oppressive governments create famine, not a mystical imaginary being. Research Jamestown colony
I've got some "nerve" bringing up slavery? Sorry, did that ruin the rosy picture of the 18th c. you were trying to paint?
The British government created the potato blight? How'd they do that exactly? I do know how they took advantage of the starving Irish to kick them off their land, throw them into workhouses, and export them to the New World... where they were treated like vermin. Sounds like disaster capitalism to me.
re: famine. What would you call the Dust Bowl in the 1930s?
famine is a scarcity of food that is usually accompanied by regional malnutrition, starvation, epidemic, and increased mortality. 1930's america does NOT qualify as a famine.
In more fully socialized countries, famine was the start, the insignia announcing socialist rule—as in Soviet Russia, as in Red China, as in Cuba. In those countries, socialism reduced the people to the unspeakable poverty of the pre-industrial ages, to literal starvation, and has kept them on a stagnant level of misery
Do you even know what the word capitalism means? Does it mean the govt has the authority to steal peoples land? Turn them into slaves? Sell them? You can't change the meaning of a word to suit your whim of an arugment. Words have meaing. A is A. 2+2 = 4
If you had bothered to look up 18th & 19th c workhouses or labour schemes you would see that their architects shared your punitive attitude towards poverty. And the poor in those schemes didn't so much work as die in droves from communicable diseases, malnutrition, and exposure.
Modern socialism emerged in the 18th c amongst the working classes as a response to industrialization and the inequalities and injustices therein.
I've got 1 question about your whole "Labor scheme" thing....
Why would these people leave their home country....travel thousands of miles to get to america, to be exploited and killed off for their labor? Doesn't seem to make much sense....Maybe its because these people could make a much better life for themselves in america working in a coal mine being a FREE human than they could in their slave state euro countries?
Those people left their home country because they HAD to. The gov't kicked all the poor small-holders off their land in the name of progress. I don't see how being ripped from everything you know to work for a nickel a day in a coal mine is being FREE, compared to living on your own productive farm back in Ireland. And then you get black lung, and there's no socialized medicine, so you die a horrible lingering death. Sweet "freedom."
So, by your intreptation of history, all the immigrants to America were forced to come to this terrible country where they were free to live their lives as they saw fit, to prosper under liberty. Yea....That makes a lot sense. Revinionist history much?
Ah, wisdom on poverty from someone who was middle-class and was never poor. And a Puritan, no less -- we know how fucked up their worldview was.
The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other. It is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but of a set of priorities imposed upon the rest of the world by the rich. Consequently, the modern poor are not pitied...but written off as trash. -John Berger
funny how Canada is even starting to move back to a private system, their govt is allowing private practices again to address the abysmal wait times and horrid quality a govt system has. Your supreme court struck down the law banning private practice and rightfully so.
Many of your precious anti private market politicians in the past have flown to the US to get advanced surgeries and cancer treatment, how hypocritical. Yet they force the regular citizens to wait in line for many months
No. there is no private insurance in Canada for any procedure in a PUBLIC hospital, only in the one or two private clinics, who only do elective surgery. Dental care, vision care, and prescription drugs are the only things covered for 99.99% of Canadians by their own choice. Depending on the poll, 92% to 97% of Canadians want single payerf and totally an insurance-run American style third world system.
im happy with americas health care system its probaly cause of one lil word that people dont seem to do anymore...work! tired of taking care of illegals and people who just dont want to work and im left footing the medicare medicaid which is already bankrupt
So if you get sick enough that you can't work any more (maybe, say cancer), you don't deserve health care any more, right? If you lose your job, you don't deserve health care any more, right? I hope you get to see that situation from the other side really soon. You'll cahnge your tune when you're the one on the outside of work and access to health care.
I'm baffled by this endless self-righteous scorn that Americans have for their neighbours. How do you have a society in which you aren't willing to help each other? Must everyone first pass some weird purity test...?
Your twisted sense of Morality is very disturbing to me Z. You claim to be so compassionate, but advocate for slavery. How does that exactly work? As long as you enslave the Evil upper class of society to the lower class, its not really slavery right? Only poor people can be slaves? What field of work do you do? What if I (the "Public") decided your field of work is now a "Right" for me to have? Does that make you my slave, since I get your services whether or not I can pay you?
If some men are ENTITLED by right to the PRODUCTS(Health care, for example) of the work of others, it means that those others(Doctors) are deprived of rights and condemned to SLAVE LABOR.
Any alleged Right of one man, which necessitates the VIOLATION of the rights of another, is not and CANNOT be a right.
No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as The Right to Enslave.
Are you equating helping other people with being enslaved by them? That idea fell straight from the crazy tree.
The way you are so glib about throwing the word "slavery" around shows that you have no understanding of how a just and caring society works and probably didn't have ancestors who were actually enslaved.
I don't know anywhere in Canada (or anywhere else) where doctors in a public system are in a situation akin in any way to SLAVERY. Try to pick a less offensive metaphor.
using the term "Helping" to describe a command and control economy over a society is a new one on me Z. It's funny you like to call me crazy, but is it still you helping me, if you've got a gun held to your head by a 3rd party telling you to help me?
I don't know what kind of weird plan the US gov't is planning (your version seems to include a lot of guns to the head and kicking down of doors... paranoid much?) but I suspect it is better than one run by the pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
"Say one is disadvantaged and poor" - ahh the old, their "Suffering" is a moral obligation on productive members of society argument. I disagree.
"THAT situation is akin to ACTUAL slavery." - So, if I choose to sit on my couch, not go to work, and eat cheetos my whole life, and then I get sick and have no money to pay to make me better, I'm a slave? I'm not getting this one. I need more explaination.
Your image of the poor is so stereotypical and FALSE as to be laughable. Most poor people and those on assistance work full-time jobs, but those jobs pay SLAVE wages and have no benefits or security. Society and YOU are content to exploit these people. But all you have is scorn for them if they DARE ask for health care or a loan to go to school or affordable childcare.
These are your fellows and if you don't help others if you're able then you are just selfish and it is YOU who are useless.
45,000 Americans die each year, 124 each day, because they have no access to health care from the insurance takeover if the US health care system. If those 45,000 lived in Canada, where health care is a RIGHT, they would be alive, but in the third world health care system of the US, they die.
Don't fool yourself Z. All governments operate by use of force, that is the difference between government and business. One has the ability to coerce you to do something, one doesn't. What happens if you decide to not pay your taxes in Canada Z? The same thing happens in Canada and America, don't give me this "It's different in canada" crap. Btw, if the govt. doesn't run "Health Care" the individual does, not insurance companies, or pharmaceuticals.
50 cents of every dollar that is spent on health care in america goes to the government. Not the hospital, not the doctor, not the EVIL corporations (insurance or pharm) the govt. They don't even provide any service, or product.....yet they get half the money. And on top of that, they can FORCE you to buy stuff if they want. Remember all governments = violence. The definition of Government is a monopoly on the use of force over a geographical area. You need to open your eyes man.
41 cents of every dollar of premiums is taken out of the system and not used for health care by INSURANCE COMPANIES. Insurance companies take in a dollar in premiums and pay out 59 cents for health care.
Z, you're a fuckin idiot. I have no idea why I'm even takling to you, you don't even try to refute what I say. You need to study some basic economics.
If I invented a drug that cures cancer, but it cost me a billion dollars to do it, and I refused to give it away to people that "Needed" it, would I be a murderer too? Even though I'll save more lives than you'll ever know?
Excuse me, if you want to have a conversation with another adult then don't call me names please. If you want to exchange insults go have a fight with a gradeschooler.
You said businesses don't have the ability to use violence and coercion and I provided the above examples to show that's blatantly untrue.
The sort of economics taught in "basic" courses is based on 18th c moral philosophies and a sort of capitalism not equipped to deal with powerful multinational corporations.
Re: your hypothetical cancer cure. If you found a cure you would not have done it alone, you would no doubt have been working on a team, not using only research you obtained first-hand but research and advances that were made by many others and for many generations. You benefited from the PUBLIC legacy of humanity to make your breakthrough. Go ahead and squeal about how you should be able to make as much $ as you want while people die -- see how long that is tolerated. Go ahead.
"not using only research you obtained first-hand but research and advances that were made by many others and for many generations" - lets keep this real simple. all of those "others" were individuals. Not the "Public". The "public" doesn't create anything, individuals create things. "Go ahead and squeal about how you should be able to make as much $ as you want while people die" - What gives you the right to steal from people Z? As long as it's for a "noble" cause its ok?
I'll keep this real simple: no one lives in a vacuum. All those "individuals" when put in a bunch are called a "group", maybe enough to form a "society", maybe all working for a "common purpose" like literacy or PUBLIC HEALTH. All those individuals contributed their work & discoveries to the whole of human knowledge.
Again with the "stealing". Who am I supposed to be "stealing" from exactly? Do I get a gun in this weird hypothetical? All your hypotheticals seem to involve guns.
"common purpose like literacy or PUBLIC HEALTH" - so if your neighbor is healthy, that means you are too? There is no such thing as "public health", health refers to 1 individual.
Physicians and patients run the Canadian health care system. Government has absolutely no say in medical decisions. In the US though, insurance company bureaucrats make your medical decisions, not physicians and patients. In the US, patients and physicians are slaves to the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between you and your physician.
How would you like it if Wal Mart could kick down your door and take you to jail if you didn't buy stuff from their store? The US Govt is attempting to make it illegal for any citizen to not buy a current health care plan. If you don't buy it they fine you, if you don't pay the fine, they'll kick your door down and take you off to jail.
It's very convenient to think that the government is just going to provide "Competition" for cheap insurance, but in the end, it all comes down to the gun.
"...it all comes down to the gun." In America maybe. Canadians got public health care because they demanded and fought for it... I don't think anyone was threatened at gunpoint... makes for a less thrilling movie-of-the-week, I know, when civilized people decide that health and justice are more important than the ability of some individuals to line their pockets.
What gives you, or any number of individuals the right to steal stuff from one person to give it to another? Not only do you advocate slavery, but theft as well. Just because you steal from the rich and give to the poor doesn't make it moral, or good.
Health Care is no different than any other good or service you can buy. If your argument works for health care, then I can apply it to ANY good or service and it has just as much merit. Food, clothing, housing, transportation, ect ect...
Z, you're stuck using tired old marxist arguments that have been prooven time after time to fail miserably. There was government guarenteed health care, food, hygine, and every other "Essential" of life in the soviet union. Does that mean that everyone lived happily ever after? Government can't guarentee the right to economic goods, because someone has to create those goods. It's pretty easy to see that if I'm a creater of a good, and the government deems my good a right, that i'm a slave
unfortunately for your argument, there is no correlation between being old and poor and being a slave. With your definition of slavery, every human that lived before modern medical technology was created was a "Slave"
How about in 1890 when only the uber rich had electricity? Were all the poor who didn't have heat or light slaves too? I could go on forever if your definition of slavery is correct.
When one is trapped in a situation of abject poverty created not by nature but deliberately by other humans who benefit from your labour, that's pretty much slavery, isn't it?
You could certainly compare centuries of serfdom to slavery, yes. There was no way to escape being a serf. Working a full-time job that pays you so little you have to choose between food and rent...?
FYI: In 1890 only the rich had electricity in their HOMES, the factories where the poor worked long hours had electricity
Ah, delightful, let's trot out the Soviet Union as an example of socialism and why it is intrinsically flawed... because the defining characteristic of that society was tyranny, not socialism. Let's not use Scandinavia or France as examples of socialistic societies that function very well. I could of course point out how many are living in poverty in the present-day US to demonstrate how unreglulated capitalism is intrinsically flawed.
"the defining characteristic of that society was tyranny, not socialism" - there is no fundamental differences in the different forms of collectivism (socialism, fascism, communism, mixed economy, whatever you want to call it.) You've got collectivism vs capitalism.
"demonstrate how unreglulated capitalism is intrinsically flawed." - you'd look like an idiot doing it though, since America hasn't been a capitalist society since the 20th century.
But anyways....I saw something on the news and wanted to get your opinion on it Z, a British Priest told his churchgoers(more or less, not an exact quote) that it was ok to steal from large corporations because the prices of their goods would simply go up, affecting us all, instead of stealing from mom and pop shops or mugging individuals on the street because that only effects a very small number of people or just 1. What do you think about that?
you know, if you really want to get specific on what you would call "Unregulated Capitalism" it has neve really existed anywhere, even in the early days of america you had people like Alexander Hamilton who wanted big government and central planning, much like you Z, so to be fair to capitalism, as you've stated it, it's never been around, but what you can say is, the closer to "Unregulated Capitalism" a country has gotten, the greater the prosperity and happiness the citizens have enjoyed
Well, America has been humping the leg of laissez-faire economics for nearly that whole time -- ramping it up in the 80s and onwards. This ridiculous obsession with cutting social programs and privatizing everything under the sun has a body count where I live -- those people are dead, not happy or prosperous. Business is only interested in making $, and if they have to hurt people to do it they will.
"Well, America has been humping the leg of laissez-faire economics for nearly that whole time" - that is 100% wrong. Never did America have a lassiez faire economy. But, America did have the economy that was the CLOSEST to that. And what happened in America? We grew into the most prosperous, highest standard of living, technologically advanced society on planet earth. Coincidence? Hardly.
I have twice as good health care in Canada as most Americans have. It has nothing to do with a "granny state" it has to do with superior access, quality, and outcomes in a government funded system compared to the US insurance-run and rationed system. the US insurance-run health care system is imploding and on it's last legs. Suicide by corporate greed.
Health care is not a product, it is a right. At least in civilized industrialkized nations haelth care is a right. Sort of puts US health care and citizens where they belong, in the third world.
How many times do I have to repeat myself to you crazy control freaks? You can NEVER have the RIGHT to an ECONOMIC GOOD, it is a contradiction in terms. Health Care is a SERVICE that is created and provided by people. IF you deem that product a "Right" you've turned the creators of that service into SLAVES. Why do you keep advocating slavery murphy? I'll bet if you had all the guns you'd turn everyone into slaves, wouldn't you?
No, you rae advocating slavery.. to insurance company bureaucrazts who make your medical decisions. Canadians have more rights than Americans, including the right to ALL Canadians to have access to health care that's twice as good as most Americans have. Americans have slavery to the insurance companies that run American health care.
whats the difference between a business, and a government entity murphy? Insurance companies have no authority to use force against you, the Government on the other hand, with a wave of its magic wand can FORCE you to do whatever it pleases, by threat of violence. Whens the last time an Insurance company knocked down your door and took you to jail because you didn't buy insurance from them?
Example. Lets say I'm the Govt. "Everyone has the RIGHT to a flat screen T.V.! Wheather or not they can pay for it! As part of my excutive order, all T.V. producing companies are now required to give away their T.V.'s at government shops, we'll be coming in to take your T.V.'s soon, make sure they're packaged and ready for us to distribute!"
Please explain to me how the producers of flat screen T.V.'s are NOT slaves if they have to work, whether or not they get paid??
Health care has nothing in common with a TV, Hea;th care is life and death. Americans die because of your slavery to insurance-run health care. If those 45,000 Americans who die each year because of the insurance company takeover of the US health care system were Canadians, they would still be alive.
it has everything in common. They are both products that are created by the demand for them in a market. They are both ECONOMIC GOODS! Your agrument that health care is different because it has to do with life and death is no argument at all. I can claim that about all kinds of things that by your definition should therfore be "Rights"
Health care is not a good that can be bought and sold. It is a right in all decent democratic industrialized nations, except in the US where 1 in 3 Americans have third world health care. US health care makes the US a third world nation.
So you're not going to attempt to explain WHY or HOW it is a right, you're just going to make a declarative statement as if that is some type of proof of what you're saying. ??? Come on...give me a break, at least TRY to explain yourself. Don't just sit there and keep repeating the same thing, and not say anything while you're doing it.
Health care is a right under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which gives us far more rights than your archaic Constiution ever could and more than Americans have ever thought of.
You really have a low opinion of people's rights. No wonder you promote a low access, low quality, poor outcome health care system that the insurance takeover of US health care gives you. Canadian health care is far better than what most Americans have.
I don't have a "Low opinion of peoples rights" I simply UNDERSTAND what the f'in word means. It's very simple, I can teach it to a 4th grader, why don't you understand? Btw, I'm still waiting on your explanation on how economic goods can be "Rights"
You have a low opinion of people's rights if you are against universal health care, which is a right in every industrialized nation but yours. Your stuck with third world health care and have no intention of changing it fior anything better. When the insurance company bureaucrat who makes your medical decisions denies you life saving treatment, you'll find out that the US has third world health care.
mur. You're an idiot. Insurance comapnies can't deny you treatment from a doctor, they can simply deny to PAY for it, you can still get all the treatment you want, you just have to pay for it. Unlike in Canada, where you can't pay for it, and its the government who can REALLY deny you your treatment since they can prevent you from even SEEING a doctor.
The Canadian government has absolutely no say in medical decisions. We see whatever physician we want and it is between us and our physicians alone what medical decisions are made.
you have a disconnect between the right to produce (which you disregard as a right, because if you acknowledged the right to produce and keep what you earn, it would destroy all of the other "Rights" you like) and the right TO goods that are produced. Example. You have the right, to buy potatos. You can go to the store, and give the store some money and take home potatos. You DO NOT have the RIGHT to potatos. If you have the right to the good, the producer of the good, becomes a SLAVE.
You can have the third world health care that you love so much. Canadians want no part of any system like that. We want the better health care we have here and we want no part of any system like Americans have, one which kills 45,000 citizens a year. You should be ashamed of insurance-run health care, but, since you aren't, we will continue look down on your inferior third world health care system.
I most certainly am ashamed of Americas terribly ran health care system. But for very different reasons than you are. If you got your way, you'd turn America into that thrid world country you keep talking about, while if I had mine, people would be left alone to make their own decisions on how they live. They would pay for their OWN care, and get it MUCH cheaper. Why is it that the less the government is involved in any part of a market, the better it operates?
Keep arguing to keep the third world health care you've had for decades. We just laugh at stupid Americans like you who think they have any kind of health care at all. Canadians laugh at your third world health care system and we know that we get far better health care in Canada than Americans have.
This is a lie. . . .and the people who made this video know they are lying.
HunterstonB 1 week ago
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"America's health care system is second only to Japan, Canada, Sweden, Great Britain, well...all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don't live in Paraguay!"
Charlie12241 1 week ago
If you look at all the videos of the author of this one you will notice what they all have in common?............FOX "NEWS".
How much is the US medical insurance lobby's paying fox? or is fox scaremongering in order not to lose their advertising revenue from the American medical companies?
MrVillamike 1 month ago
The deal is if you have a serious issue its dealt with pretty quickly, on the flip side its means that a small problem that does not require immediate attention can have a long wait time. However, when you leave the hospital it costs nothing................You have the right to seek a quicker more costly solution outside Canada if you wish. I have lived in Canada for 37 years and can't tell you one negative story about the system.......................PEACE
mtsafaroff 1 month ago
What a load of crap. I'm Canadian who has used the health care service in Canada, I have nieces and nephews and a very old grandmother who also regularly use the health care system, and they have had no problems. Canada has a great health care system, and Americans should be so lucky. So....Good luck, America....
temporaryheaven 1 month ago 2
poor people move to Canada please, they have a resource based economy, please go.
kokocipher 2 months ago
I've heard a lot of debate.I have received very good care in Canada but they have found a walkin clinic where there is along wait.;but they are there for those who couldn't see their doctor that day and if they were emergencies that is where they would go.If the US wanted Universal coverage,we pay far less.How about this? That walk in clinic could be run privately; elite private care.Then you would have both. Private US Insurance is a disaster and needs to go
tindallpe 2 months ago
I'm sorry to hear you had to wait to get stitches once. I have lived in Canada for 39 years and myself, my family and my friends have thankfully all recieved good health care when it's been needed.
deziistheone 2 months ago
so covering everybody is bad? well what if private insurance covered everybody?would that hurt their profits? yes.....we should have a gov.option for people who agree with it,and let the conservatives use the sick for profit system,since they worship it.i want a moral pro life government (pro-life incudes healthcare)
dignerds 4 months ago 2
Wait times are called triage, stop bitching just because someone worse off then you didn't have to wait
893160007 5 months ago
You don't hear about it WIttsend because ALL Canadians are served
MadHabber93 5 months ago
Part of a free system. It happens everywhere in Canada. You don't hear about it because you will get NO MEDICAL attention if as a Canadian you speak up!
MyWittsend3 5 months ago
As a Canadian, this video makes me laugh. We do have our problems in Canada, but this news brief is soooo biased. Got to love Fox News! So many clips and interview statements appear to be taken out of context. LOL
kpetricca 5 months ago
The really interesting question that the RETARDED American media often ignore is: if the Canadian population were as LARGE as the US population, how much LONGER would the waiting time be?
In this era of technology, it's AMAZINGLY sad that some Americans're so stupid that they don't even know the population of Canada is ONLY about 11% of the US population.
ttiiyy 6 months ago
Canada's healthcare system is so poor, that last year alone, almost 66 million Canadians came to the US as Health tourists. And if you think that's bad, what about the pregnant British woman (who use the same style Health system as Canada) who was waiting nearly 3 years to have her baby, had to come to the USA to have it delivered. It seems Canada is going down the same road as Pakistan, Britain and India. A third world backwater.
angels77100 7 months ago
@angels77100 My wife waited 4 years for her C-section. Gave birth to a 45 pounder.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Yes word has reached me about those Canadian farmboys up there in the sticks. Big eared, wide-eyed gormless looking critters, with an Adam's apple so huge it looks as if they're constantly trying to shallow a ballcock.
angels77100 7 months ago
@angels77100 Yes, very true. And do you know we all still drive horse and buggy. Ignore the fact I'm using the modern technology of internet. I'm actually sending smoke signals to relatives in the States and they are transcribing my words onto something you call a keyboard. Very interesting inventions you have there in the U.S.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
:33 Leprosy
philgbear 8 months ago
My brother got a concussion 1 year ago. Accidentally ran into a car with his bike. We took him to the local hospital and waited only about 20 minutes before seeing a doctor and getting x rays.
lonelytrixter 9 months ago
I bet that many clinics and hospitals in the US look the exact same with very similar waiting times. It varies so much depending on where you go. The so called lowered wait times in the US also mean you get to have treatment faster 1. If you have the money and 2. At the expense of someone else's health and potentially life. That isn't a way I want a health care system run in my country.
lonelytrixter 9 months ago
@lonelytrixter Well, the Canadian population is only 11% of the US population. I'm just surprised that the waiting time in Canada can be so long (of course the same problem exists in the US as well). I'm surprised that you made the point that some Americans can receive the treatment faster at the expense of someone else's health and potentially life. Keep in mind that some people in the US are able to receive the treatment faster because of their serious conditions not because of the money.
ttiiyy 6 months ago
@ttiiyy The Canadian population being smaller is largely irrelevant due to the fact that it has no bearing on the patient to doctor ratio.
The second point I was trying to make is that in the US many people cannot even access health care facilities, beyond emergency room treatment, simply due to costs which means that the people who don't have money are left without any help.
lonelytrixter 6 months ago
@ttiiyy This means that those with money essentially are able to see a doctor faster because you have many people that cannot afford to see one at all, thus lowering the number of people even able to go receive health care in the first place. This leads to a system that is drastically tilted toward the wealthy and affluent, they receive care faster at the expense of another person's health.
lonelytrixter 6 months ago
@lonelytrixter I don't know much about your background, but maybe you've never lived in the US. Let's get real, EVEN IN CANADA, some bloody rich people get special treatments at hospitals. However, in the US, those patients with serious conditions will be able to receive faster treatments at the discretion of the doctors and nurses. It's not as if US medical professionals only care about rich Americans. If our doctors're all so greedy, you won't see them VOLUNTEERING in African countries.
ttiiyy 6 months ago
@ttiiyy The special treatments in hospitals does happen but is a lot more minimized. Actually it is illegal in Canada for private clinics or hospitals to set their own price and charge residents for it. Instead prices are at a fixed rate set by the provincial government and our taxes foot the bill (still costs for non residents barring emergency accidents). There are some things where paying extra or insurance will get perks or a private hospital room but again the special treatment is minimal.
lonelytrixter 6 months ago
@ttiiyy I never claimed all doctors in the US only cared about money or were 100% greedy, however the system is still far more tilted to favour richer people than the one in Canada. There is a fair amount of other problems I've seen and read about like for profit insurance that discriminates on preexisting conditions or tries to avoid paying out money for the product they are supposed to be guaranteeing at all costs. Preventative care is sorely lacking as well.
lonelytrixter 6 months ago
Fuck fox news !!
punkerleader 9 months ago
Thank heavens Obamacare was overturned. It is just the beginning, but at least it is positive!
RockTheFacts 1 year ago
now dont u give me this bullshit
u dont know what u are talking about. i had to get mri i waited 1 week, i can say a family dr. any dr. SO STOP UR FEAR TATICS U BASTARD GO TO HELL
novascotia2010 1 year ago
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give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sergioapuzzo 1 year ago
Total Fox BS!
sgtcrab1 1 year ago
Canada's Life expectancy: about rank 11 of all the countries...
U.S's Life expectancy: rank 36 of all countries...
so, in reality, this is all bullocks, statistics and personal experience tell me that this is all a lie to protect corporative interests of the health care companies.
luciferiexcelsil 1 year ago
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I did not say I filled out paper work fool.
wallman678 1 year ago
Johnrosssssss, Fox News isn't the best way to present your argument. Even most Americans won't take you seriously. And oh no, you waited for your "easy stich" while someone with breathing problems or a broken bone went before you. What kind of system is that? lol
How can you use "cracked my head open" and "bleeding so bad" with "I waited over 3 hours for a easy stich"? Sounds like your trying to twist the truth.
and....
"a easy stich"
*an easy stitch
Seriously, stop watching Fox News. lol
urantivirus 1 year ago
The only reason I would say to Americans to not buy this bull is that I actually like America. I have lived my life in Canada and our system is great and would not trade it for the USA system. Look up Tommy Douglas and ask why did Canadians vote him the greatest Canadian ever.
AboveBelowBetween 1 year ago
In Canada, a heart attack is more important then an ear ache. Who knew? This video is a joke. Waiting times? get serious. The heathcare here has been top notch sence day one. In Canada, i dont mind waiting 10 mins so the elderly lady can get her medicine. I really dont.
HockeyFights1890 1 year ago 3
@HockeyFights1890 I agree with u my friend let us speak up yankees want our system those jerks know it. what a shock go to hospital how much insurance do u have u are asked but i am not buying a house. how much money do u have why do u want to go mcdonalds they would denie jesus
novascotia2010 1 year ago
FOX is right when lived there we use to have to wait for hours every damn time we had to go.usually just to get a bone relocaited or something simple it would take all day into late night. If we had a problem that needed tests done it would take months just for them to get us the paper work!
wallman678 1 year ago
@wallman678 Paperwork? What? You filled out paper work? I have a feeling you're full of shit. I'm from Canada, and you don't make any sense.
urantivirus 1 year ago
i rather die waiting than dieing from debt or not affording care
kingraver507 1 year ago 4
America (US of) has AN EVEN WORSE shortage of primary care doctors than Canada! The bias in fees commanded by specialists produces way too many specialists and specialist procedures in the US (which costs more) and too little in the way of basic heath care.
hauskalainen 1 year ago
@Johnrosssssss Okay... so in America, you would have to go to a hospital, wait for them to check if your HMO actually covers what happened to you. Wait several hours for paperwork. Pay several hundred dollars for an MRI out of your own pocket, probably and get 10-15 minutes with a doctor to do the exact same thing... Unless you have literally thousands of dollars of disposable income, the American health care system simply doesn't work.
GenericRespondent 1 year ago
I usually wait around 45 minutes when i go to the clinic in Canada and if you go at none busy times its even faster. But ofcourse in FOX time thats about a 5 hour wait
Shane444888 1 year ago
This is the usual propaganda from Fox News. Walk-in clinics are there for people who need to see a doctor other than their regular doctor. They are not meant to be for emergencies. Ask any Canadian if they would prefer the system that exists in the US; they would say 'no'.
Canadians on average live 3 years longer than Americans. I think that's pretty compelling evidence.
mcresearch 1 year ago
@mcresearch Considering the population difference between Canada and The United States, it would be irrelevant to compare their life expectancies. Also, USA has more obesity than Canada = more diseases = more death at an early age.
Secondly, many patients go to walk-in clinics because they do NOT have a family doctor to go to. In a city in Alberta, they have lotteries on who can get a family doctor or not.
Lastly, American system gives direct access to specialized doctors. Canada does not.
NikG1092 1 year ago
@NikG1092 The whole idea of an average is to allow fair comparisons between populations of different size. You may want to ask why there is more obesity in the US - is it also because it's a bigger country?
Secondly, our health care system isn't perfect and has its flaws. There are shortages and limitations. It still provides care to everyone regardless of income.
Lastly, a doctor's referral to a specialist saves money and eliminates time wasters.
mcresearch 1 year ago
NikG... they don't have a lottery for doctors here in Alberta even in the cities. You have a legal right to choose your doctors even in the city! I was a patient due to brain cancer and had a neurosurgeon assigned to me in less than 5 weeks last year. Wait time was fairly short on admission into hospital.
Sanosuke004 1 year ago
We have issues but I would never trade my OHIP card for American sytyle insurance! (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) It is remarkable that what it is is actually insurance covered by the government funded by taxes. You don't need to spend on Private insurance and most of our system(70%) is actually privately run. We have choice and our fundamental belief that your country is only as strong as your weakest most vulnerable citizens is what drives our social values! Public Insurance public hospitals
Sk8terboyCanuck 2 years ago
Not a surpise that all the negative views on Canadian Health Care come from Mostly Fox News.
TheRevolutionCanada 2 years ago 10
@TheRevolutionCanada go read tommy douglas u spend 9gop on health care over 34 americans are not covered .
Canada we spend 7 % GOP on health care EVERY MAN WOMAN & CHILD IS COVERED. go read Tommy Douglas. Universal Health Care works stop listening to the Fear Mongers
novascotia2010 1 year ago
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@novascotia2010 what makes you think im against canadian health care?? You obviously didnt read what I said clear enough
TheRevolutionCanada 1 year ago
Just Remember This ISN'T The Emergency Room. Thats Quick
MapleBalls 2 years ago
fuck america health-care.
they the SHITTEST i ever seen, unless u got ALOT money
u aint shyt here. i can speak against this bullshit.
i got health crisis myself
(colotis, acid reflux, stomach cramps,
massive headaches, slight liver problems & etc)
i hope these other countries got betta health-care than this sorry shyt
UltraDOG17 2 years ago
So let me get this straight...it would be far more effective having the government make decisions regarding my health matters rather than the licensed doctors themselves. Makes so much sense!! And where is the respect for ALL citizens here? Our hardworking tax paying money is paying for lower quality health care that is supposed to be "free". Wake up, people..!
mbear31 2 years ago
That's the thing, American health concerns aren't looked by the licensed doctors. The doctors must first contact your insurance company and they have final say on to perform or deny.
colbertLOTR91 2 years ago 3
so weird our life expentancy is better then yours... in fact your the western country with the lowest life expentancy. i never had a goverment bureaucrat get between me and my doctor... but keep shooting your talking points
slickrickdarula 2 years ago
This video is SOOO over exagerated and biased!!! I was born in America, but have lived in Canada with my family for the last few years. The universal health care system in Canada has been amazing. Every system has its flaws.
vintage007 2 years ago 15
@vintage007 Then you sir are a treasonous, traitor. Of course you're gonna say that. You Canadian lover. Canada was, is, and hopefully always will be our enemy.
angels77100 7 months ago
@vintage007 True, no system is perfect.
cman1112 6 months ago
The concept of a right pertains only to ACTION specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
The ACTION of an insurance company bureaucrat making your medical decisions strrips you of your rights. The ACTION of providing health care for EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN give Canadians more rights and far better health care than Americans denied their rights by the insurance company takeover of US health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
A right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning mans freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right a mans right to his own life. The right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life
continued...
Twiggy269 2 years ago
If you were a CANADIAN CITIZEN, you would realize how much better health care you have than you had in the US and would never go back to that inferior health that Americans have. You have no idea how much better Canadian health care is until you actually USE Canadian health care, as I actually USED the inferior American health care system for the 7 years I lived in the US.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I was very thankful to be transferred back to Cnada to have decent health care again after surviving inferior US health care for 7 years.
murphyj87 2 years ago
so your argument is that I would be ok with slavery, if I got to reap the benefits of it.
Strange.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Your slavery to the US insurance takeover of health care will result in being denied care when you need it most. Insurance-run health care results in Americans living almost THREE YEARS LESS than Canadians because of the slavery of US insurance-run health care which will end your life prematurely compared to your life span if you were a Canadian with Canadian health care
murphyj87 2 years ago 2
If US insurance-run health care is supposed to be so good, why do Americans have much shorter lifespans than the 18 other industrialized nations that have universal health care?
murphyj87 2 years ago
Slavery to the insurance companies' takeover of the US health care costs Americans their lives, and they would live longer if they had Canadian health care instead.
murphyj87 2 years ago 2
These are undisputable facts. The average lifespan of a Canadian male is 76. The average lifespan of an American male 73. The average lifespan of a Canadian female is over 83. The average lifespan of an American female 79.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I repeat, slavery to the insurance takeover of American health care cost Americans their lives, which would be longer if they were Canadians, mainly because Canadian health care is superior to the insurance-run health care that Americans have. Insurance-run health care kills more Americans than homicide and auto accidents in the US combined. In addition, 225,000 Americans die because of medical mistakes, mostly from unnecessary surgery, according to the AMA.
murphyj87 2 years ago
profit = innovation
Government = stagnation
innovation = higher standard of living
socialized countries piggyback on American excellence. You should be sending fruit cakes to American Pharma. Companies for saving millions of lives with their R&D that they do FOR PROFIT
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Ridiculous. Half of what you think of American are from elsewhere, many are Canadian.
murphyj87 2 years ago
murphy, if you moved out of canada and became an American citizen, you are by definition, an American.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
if healthcare is a right, then food/drink is a right too. Food and drink prevent the medical condition called starvation.
Pets in Canada get far more immediate and urgent care than the people there.
ForTehNguyen 2 years ago
Not in any way the case. The only people who have to wait for a short time are those with purely elective procdures and that's only because people with urgent and serious conditions are treated urgently. In the US however, the pets of the rich get better treatment than the American middle class and poor who get third world health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Z, you can bring up any topic you want to try and defeat my argument of individual rights, but no matter what you try and talk about, you'll lose, because history, and reality are on my side. So go ahead, and jump from premise to premise, not addressing anything I say for as long as you want, you'll run out of dumb shit to say eventually.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Except they're not on YOUR side which is why we're having this debate.
You're so in love with this concept of "individual rights" you can't see that those rights are not restricted by ALSO acknowleding you are part of a community and that you BENEFIT from being a member. Being a completely atomized "individual" is an illusion. Yes, you have individual rights but the "individual" benefits when the community benefits -- when everyone is educated and everyone is healthy.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago 2
So long as a concept such as the public interest is regarded as a valid principle to guide legislation lobbies and pressure groups will necessarily continue to exist. Since there is no such entity as the public, since the public is merely a number of individuals, the idea that the public interest supersedes private interests and rights, can have but one meaning: that the interests and rights of some individuals take precedence over the interests and rights of others.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
If so, then all men and all private groups have to fight to the death for the privilege of being regarded as the public. The governments policy has to swing like an erratic pendulum from group to group, hitting some and favoring others, at the whim of any given moment—and so grotesque a profession as lobbying (selling influence) becomes a full-time job. If parasitism, favoritism, corruption, and greed for the unearned did not exist, a mixed economy would bring them into existence.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Since there is no rational justification for the sacrifice of some men to others, there is no objective criterion by which such a sacrifice can be guided in practice. All public interest legislation (and any distribution of money taken by force from some men for the unearned benefit of others) comes down ultimately to the grant of an undefined, undefinable, non-objective, arbitrary power to some government officials. continued...
Twiggy269 2 years ago
The worst aspect of it is not that such a power can be used dishonestly, but that it cannot be used honestly. The wisest man in the world, with the purest integrity, cannot find a criterion for the just, equitable, rational application of an unjust, inequitable, irrational principle.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Z, Read the Wall Street Op Ed written by John Mackey, its easy to find if you do a simple google search.
This man understands what is going on, and how to solve the problems. Read it and get back to me. If not, don't bother replying.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Um sorry "professor" you don't get to ASSIGN me material. I should go search out some opinion piece by someone with no doubt as archaic and Protestant an atitude towards the poor as yourself? Go read about 18th & 19th century workhouses and labour schemes and how "making the poor uncomfortable" just kills them. Those by the way are FACTS not opinions.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
"Go read about 18th & 19th century workhouses and labour schemes" - Thats pretty funny that you tell me to go read history, especially about the 18 and 19th centuries. You mean that time in world history where we had the largest growth in industry, life expectancy, technology, population growth, ect? Oh no, there were poor people who worked? Oh My....that must have been horrible. All those people who would've died in the 17th century, had to LIVE.....and work? What a terrible thing.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
if the 18th and 19th centuries were so bad for the poor, how come thats the time in human history where the "Middle Class" was created? Why were so many more people able to live and support themselves in those centuries than in past centuries? Was it because of those evil rich people exploiting them? Is that why they lived instead of died?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Let's see -- in the 18th century how many millions of Africans were enslaved in the New World? A slave had a life expectancy of 7 years during which they were literally worked to death. The British abolished slavery in the 1830s but the elites still did everything they could to deny the blacks land, education, legal rights.
In the 1840s something like a third of Ireland's population (the poorest) died or had to leave. The famine was from God but the Poor Laws were from man and killed thousands.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
You've got some nerve bringing up slavery. If it wasn't for americas founding fathers, and the idea of individual rights, who knows where we would be right now. It's the ideas that I'm trying to get into your thick skull that eventually defeated slavery.
" The famine was from God " - how come there has never been famine in a country that observed individual rights? Oh...thats right, because oppressive governments create famine, not a mystical imaginary being. Research Jamestown colony
Twiggy269 2 years ago
I've got some "nerve" bringing up slavery? Sorry, did that ruin the rosy picture of the 18th c. you were trying to paint?
The British government created the potato blight? How'd they do that exactly? I do know how they took advantage of the starving Irish to kick them off their land, throw them into workhouses, and export them to the New World... where they were treated like vermin. Sounds like disaster capitalism to me.
re: famine. What would you call the Dust Bowl in the 1930s?
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
famine is a scarcity of food that is usually accompanied by regional malnutrition, starvation, epidemic, and increased mortality. 1930's america does NOT qualify as a famine.
In more fully socialized countries, famine was the start, the insignia announcing socialist rule—as in Soviet Russia, as in Red China, as in Cuba. In those countries, socialism reduced the people to the unspeakable poverty of the pre-industrial ages, to literal starvation, and has kept them on a stagnant level of misery
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Do you even know what the word capitalism means? Does it mean the govt has the authority to steal peoples land? Turn them into slaves? Sell them? You can't change the meaning of a word to suit your whim of an arugment. Words have meaing. A is A. 2+2 = 4
Twiggy269 2 years ago
If you had bothered to look up 18th & 19th c workhouses or labour schemes you would see that their architects shared your punitive attitude towards poverty. And the poor in those schemes didn't so much work as die in droves from communicable diseases, malnutrition, and exposure.
Modern socialism emerged in the 18th c amongst the working classes as a response to industrialization and the inequalities and injustices therein.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
I've got 1 question about your whole "Labor scheme" thing....
Why would these people leave their home country....travel thousands of miles to get to america, to be exploited and killed off for their labor? Doesn't seem to make much sense....Maybe its because these people could make a much better life for themselves in america working in a coal mine being a FREE human than they could in their slave state euro countries?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Those people left their home country because they HAD to. The gov't kicked all the poor small-holders off their land in the name of progress. I don't see how being ripped from everything you know to work for a nickel a day in a coal mine is being FREE, compared to living on your own productive farm back in Ireland. And then you get black lung, and there's no socialized medicine, so you die a horrible lingering death. Sweet "freedom."
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
So, by your intreptation of history, all the immigrants to America were forced to come to this terrible country where they were free to live their lives as they saw fit, to prosper under liberty. Yea....That makes a lot sense. Revinionist history much?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
"We should make the poor uncomfortable, to kick them out of poverty" - Benjamin Franklin 1706 - 1790
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Ah, wisdom on poverty from someone who was middle-class and was never poor. And a Puritan, no less -- we know how fucked up their worldview was.
The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other. It is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but of a set of priorities imposed upon the rest of the world by the rich. Consequently, the modern poor are not pitied...but written off as trash. -John Berger
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
funny how Canada is even starting to move back to a private system, their govt is allowing private practices again to address the abysmal wait times and horrid quality a govt system has. Your supreme court struck down the law banning private practice and rightfully so.
Many of your precious anti private market politicians in the past have flown to the US to get advanced surgeries and cancer treatment, how hypocritical. Yet they force the regular citizens to wait in line for many months
ForTehNguyen 2 years ago
No. there is no private insurance in Canada for any procedure in a PUBLIC hospital, only in the one or two private clinics, who only do elective surgery. Dental care, vision care, and prescription drugs are the only things covered for 99.99% of Canadians by their own choice. Depending on the poll, 92% to 97% of Canadians want single payerf and totally an insurance-run American style third world system.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Except hardly anyone is buying private insurance. You panacea of private insurance is dying a quick death because no one is buying it.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Bring back child labor!
Twiggy269 2 years ago
im happy with americas health care system its probaly cause of one lil word that people dont seem to do anymore...work! tired of taking care of illegals and people who just dont want to work and im left footing the medicare medicaid which is already bankrupt
psycho26shon 2 years ago
So if you get sick enough that you can't work any more (maybe, say cancer), you don't deserve health care any more, right? If you lose your job, you don't deserve health care any more, right? I hope you get to see that situation from the other side really soon. You'll cahnge your tune when you're the one on the outside of work and access to health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
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adven777 2 years ago
bro i already have and it sucks no lie but it gave me motivation to get off my butt and get a good job....period!
psycho26shon 2 years ago
I'm baffled by this endless self-righteous scorn that Americans have for their neighbours. How do you have a society in which you aren't willing to help each other? Must everyone first pass some weird purity test...?
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
Your twisted sense of Morality is very disturbing to me Z. You claim to be so compassionate, but advocate for slavery. How does that exactly work? As long as you enslave the Evil upper class of society to the lower class, its not really slavery right? Only poor people can be slaves? What field of work do you do? What if I (the "Public") decided your field of work is now a "Right" for me to have? Does that make you my slave, since I get your services whether or not I can pay you?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
If some men are ENTITLED by right to the PRODUCTS(Health care, for example) of the work of others, it means that those others(Doctors) are deprived of rights and condemned to SLAVE LABOR.
Any alleged Right of one man, which necessitates the VIOLATION of the rights of another, is not and CANNOT be a right.
No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as The Right to Enslave.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Are you equating helping other people with being enslaved by them? That idea fell straight from the crazy tree.
The way you are so glib about throwing the word "slavery" around shows that you have no understanding of how a just and caring society works and probably didn't have ancestors who were actually enslaved.
I don't know anywhere in Canada (or anywhere else) where doctors in a public system are in a situation akin in any way to SLAVERY. Try to pick a less offensive metaphor.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
using the term "Helping" to describe a command and control economy over a society is a new one on me Z. It's funny you like to call me crazy, but is it still you helping me, if you've got a gun held to your head by a 3rd party telling you to help me?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
I don't know what kind of weird plan the US gov't is planning (your version seems to include a lot of guns to the head and kicking down of doors... paranoid much?) but I suspect it is better than one run by the pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
"Say one is disadvantaged and poor" - ahh the old, their "Suffering" is a moral obligation on productive members of society argument. I disagree.
"THAT situation is akin to ACTUAL slavery." - So, if I choose to sit on my couch, not go to work, and eat cheetos my whole life, and then I get sick and have no money to pay to make me better, I'm a slave? I'm not getting this one. I need more explaination.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Your image of the poor is so stereotypical and FALSE as to be laughable. Most poor people and those on assistance work full-time jobs, but those jobs pay SLAVE wages and have no benefits or security. Society and YOU are content to exploit these people. But all you have is scorn for them if they DARE ask for health care or a loan to go to school or affordable childcare.
These are your fellows and if you don't help others if you're able then you are just selfish and it is YOU who are useless.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
should have paid attention in class instead of getting knocked up!
psycho26shon 2 years ago
45,000 Americans die each year, 124 each day, because they have no access to health care from the insurance takeover if the US health care system. If those 45,000 lived in Canada, where health care is a RIGHT, they would be alive, but in the third world health care system of the US, they die.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Don't fool yourself Z. All governments operate by use of force, that is the difference between government and business. One has the ability to coerce you to do something, one doesn't. What happens if you decide to not pay your taxes in Canada Z? The same thing happens in Canada and America, don't give me this "It's different in canada" crap. Btw, if the govt. doesn't run "Health Care" the individual does, not insurance companies, or pharmaceuticals.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
50 cents of every dollar that is spent on health care in america goes to the government. Not the hospital, not the doctor, not the EVIL corporations (insurance or pharm) the govt. They don't even provide any service, or product.....yet they get half the money. And on top of that, they can FORCE you to buy stuff if they want. Remember all governments = violence. The definition of Government is a monopoly on the use of force over a geographical area. You need to open your eyes man.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
41 cents of every dollar of premiums is taken out of the system and not used for health care by INSURANCE COMPANIES. Insurance companies take in a dollar in premiums and pay out 59 cents for health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Business doesn't use violence to get its way?
I think the Ogoni people murdered because they protested Dutch Shell destroying their land would disagree.
I think those dying in Africa because the pharmaceutical industry blocked their gov'ts from buying cheaper generic drugs would disagree.
I think those dying in the US from treatable illnesses 'cause they have no health coverage would disagree.
Those people are DEAD because of the actions of BUSINESS and there is ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
Z, you're a fuckin idiot. I have no idea why I'm even takling to you, you don't even try to refute what I say. You need to study some basic economics.
If I invented a drug that cures cancer, but it cost me a billion dollars to do it, and I refused to give it away to people that "Needed" it, would I be a murderer too? Even though I'll save more lives than you'll ever know?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Excuse me, if you want to have a conversation with another adult then don't call me names please. If you want to exchange insults go have a fight with a gradeschooler.
You said businesses don't have the ability to use violence and coercion and I provided the above examples to show that's blatantly untrue.
The sort of economics taught in "basic" courses is based on 18th c moral philosophies and a sort of capitalism not equipped to deal with powerful multinational corporations.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
Re: your hypothetical cancer cure. If you found a cure you would not have done it alone, you would no doubt have been working on a team, not using only research you obtained first-hand but research and advances that were made by many others and for many generations. You benefited from the PUBLIC legacy of humanity to make your breakthrough. Go ahead and squeal about how you should be able to make as much $ as you want while people die -- see how long that is tolerated. Go ahead.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
"not using only research you obtained first-hand but research and advances that were made by many others and for many generations" - lets keep this real simple. all of those "others" were individuals. Not the "Public". The "public" doesn't create anything, individuals create things. "Go ahead and squeal about how you should be able to make as much $ as you want while people die" - What gives you the right to steal from people Z? As long as it's for a "noble" cause its ok?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
I'll keep this real simple: no one lives in a vacuum. All those "individuals" when put in a bunch are called a "group", maybe enough to form a "society", maybe all working for a "common purpose" like literacy or PUBLIC HEALTH. All those individuals contributed their work & discoveries to the whole of human knowledge.
Again with the "stealing". Who am I supposed to be "stealing" from exactly? Do I get a gun in this weird hypothetical? All your hypotheticals seem to involve guns.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
"common purpose like literacy or PUBLIC HEALTH" - so if your neighbor is healthy, that means you are too? There is no such thing as "public health", health refers to 1 individual.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Physicians and patients run the Canadian health care system. Government has absolutely no say in medical decisions. In the US though, insurance company bureaucrats make your medical decisions, not physicians and patients. In the US, patients and physicians are slaves to the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between you and your physician.
murphyj87 2 years ago
How would you like it if Wal Mart could kick down your door and take you to jail if you didn't buy stuff from their store? The US Govt is attempting to make it illegal for any citizen to not buy a current health care plan. If you don't buy it they fine you, if you don't pay the fine, they'll kick your door down and take you off to jail.
It's very convenient to think that the government is just going to provide "Competition" for cheap insurance, but in the end, it all comes down to the gun.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
"...it all comes down to the gun." In America maybe. Canadians got public health care because they demanded and fought for it... I don't think anyone was threatened at gunpoint... makes for a less thrilling movie-of-the-week, I know, when civilized people decide that health and justice are more important than the ability of some individuals to line their pockets.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
What gives you, or any number of individuals the right to steal stuff from one person to give it to another? Not only do you advocate slavery, but theft as well. Just because you steal from the rich and give to the poor doesn't make it moral, or good.
Health Care is no different than any other good or service you can buy. If your argument works for health care, then I can apply it to ANY good or service and it has just as much merit. Food, clothing, housing, transportation, ect ect...
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Just admit you're a cradle to grave nanny state command and control marxist. I'll say,
thats great, I'm not.
And we can go our separate ways. I'm not going to convience you of the horrible things that your ideology has committed in the past,
and you're not going to understand what the word "Rights" actually means.
So why keep talking?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Well, I guess there's no use in talking if you're only interested in labelling me and have no regard for the suffering of your fellow human.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
Z, you're stuck using tired old marxist arguments that have been prooven time after time to fail miserably. There was government guarenteed health care, food, hygine, and every other "Essential" of life in the soviet union. Does that mean that everyone lived happily ever after? Government can't guarentee the right to economic goods, because someone has to create those goods. It's pretty easy to see that if I'm a creater of a good, and the government deems my good a right, that i'm a slave
Twiggy269 2 years ago
unfortunately for your argument, there is no correlation between being old and poor and being a slave. With your definition of slavery, every human that lived before modern medical technology was created was a "Slave"
How about in 1890 when only the uber rich had electricity? Were all the poor who didn't have heat or light slaves too? I could go on forever if your definition of slavery is correct.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
When one is trapped in a situation of abject poverty created not by nature but deliberately by other humans who benefit from your labour, that's pretty much slavery, isn't it?
You could certainly compare centuries of serfdom to slavery, yes. There was no way to escape being a serf. Working a full-time job that pays you so little you have to choose between food and rent...?
FYI: In 1890 only the rich had electricity in their HOMES, the factories where the poor worked long hours had electricity
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
You insist on being a slave to the insurance company bureaucrat who dictates your medical decisions to your physician.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Ah, delightful, let's trot out the Soviet Union as an example of socialism and why it is intrinsically flawed... because the defining characteristic of that society was tyranny, not socialism. Let's not use Scandinavia or France as examples of socialistic societies that function very well. I could of course point out how many are living in poverty in the present-day US to demonstrate how unreglulated capitalism is intrinsically flawed.
Someone working in a PAID job is a slave. Right.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
"the defining characteristic of that society was tyranny, not socialism" - there is no fundamental differences in the different forms of collectivism (socialism, fascism, communism, mixed economy, whatever you want to call it.) You've got collectivism vs capitalism.
"demonstrate how unreglulated capitalism is intrinsically flawed." - you'd look like an idiot doing it though, since America hasn't been a capitalist society since the 20th century.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
To clarify that, I mean the turn of the 20th.
But anyways....I saw something on the news and wanted to get your opinion on it Z, a British Priest told his churchgoers(more or less, not an exact quote) that it was ok to steal from large corporations because the prices of their goods would simply go up, affecting us all, instead of stealing from mom and pop shops or mugging individuals on the street because that only effects a very small number of people or just 1. What do you think about that?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
you know, if you really want to get specific on what you would call "Unregulated Capitalism" it has neve really existed anywhere, even in the early days of america you had people like Alexander Hamilton who wanted big government and central planning, much like you Z, so to be fair to capitalism, as you've stated it, it's never been around, but what you can say is, the closer to "Unregulated Capitalism" a country has gotten, the greater the prosperity and happiness the citizens have enjoyed
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Well, America has been humping the leg of laissez-faire economics for nearly that whole time -- ramping it up in the 80s and onwards. This ridiculous obsession with cutting social programs and privatizing everything under the sun has a body count where I live -- those people are dead, not happy or prosperous. Business is only interested in making $, and if they have to hurt people to do it they will.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
"Well, America has been humping the leg of laissez-faire economics for nearly that whole time" - that is 100% wrong. Never did America have a lassiez faire economy. But, America did have the economy that was the CLOSEST to that. And what happened in America? We grew into the most prosperous, highest standard of living, technologically advanced society on planet earth. Coincidence? Hardly.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
I have twice as good health care in Canada as most Americans have. It has nothing to do with a "granny state" it has to do with superior access, quality, and outcomes in a government funded system compared to the US insurance-run and rationed system. the US insurance-run health care system is imploding and on it's last legs. Suicide by corporate greed.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Health care is not a product, it is a right. At least in civilized industrialkized nations haelth care is a right. Sort of puts US health care and citizens where they belong, in the third world.
murphyj87 2 years ago
How many times do I have to repeat myself to you crazy control freaks? You can NEVER have the RIGHT to an ECONOMIC GOOD, it is a contradiction in terms. Health Care is a SERVICE that is created and provided by people. IF you deem that product a "Right" you've turned the creators of that service into SLAVES. Why do you keep advocating slavery murphy? I'll bet if you had all the guns you'd turn everyone into slaves, wouldn't you?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
No, you rae advocating slavery.. to insurance company bureaucrazts who make your medical decisions. Canadians have more rights than Americans, including the right to ALL Canadians to have access to health care that's twice as good as most Americans have. Americans have slavery to the insurance companies that run American health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
whats the difference between a business, and a government entity murphy? Insurance companies have no authority to use force against you, the Government on the other hand, with a wave of its magic wand can FORCE you to do whatever it pleases, by threat of violence. Whens the last time an Insurance company knocked down your door and took you to jail because you didn't buy insurance from them?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Example. Lets say I'm the Govt. "Everyone has the RIGHT to a flat screen T.V.! Wheather or not they can pay for it! As part of my excutive order, all T.V. producing companies are now required to give away their T.V.'s at government shops, we'll be coming in to take your T.V.'s soon, make sure they're packaged and ready for us to distribute!"
Please explain to me how the producers of flat screen T.V.'s are NOT slaves if they have to work, whether or not they get paid??
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Health care has nothing in common with a TV, Hea;th care is life and death. Americans die because of your slavery to insurance-run health care. If those 45,000 Americans who die each year because of the insurance company takeover of the US health care system were Canadians, they would still be alive.
murphyj87 2 years ago
it has everything in common. They are both products that are created by the demand for them in a market. They are both ECONOMIC GOODS! Your agrument that health care is different because it has to do with life and death is no argument at all. I can claim that about all kinds of things that by your definition should therfore be "Rights"
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Health care is not a good that can be bought and sold. It is a right in all decent democratic industrialized nations, except in the US where 1 in 3 Americans have third world health care. US health care makes the US a third world nation.
murphyj87 2 years ago
So you're not going to attempt to explain WHY or HOW it is a right, you're just going to make a declarative statement as if that is some type of proof of what you're saying. ??? Come on...give me a break, at least TRY to explain yourself. Don't just sit there and keep repeating the same thing, and not say anything while you're doing it.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Health care is a right under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which gives us far more rights than your archaic Constiution ever could and more than Americans have ever thought of.
murphyj87 2 years ago
yeah and I bet if your politicians said that ham and cheese sandwiches were a right you'd believe that too. Haha.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
You really have a low opinion of people's rights. No wonder you promote a low access, low quality, poor outcome health care system that the insurance takeover of US health care gives you. Canadian health care is far better than what most Americans have.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I don't have a "Low opinion of peoples rights" I simply UNDERSTAND what the f'in word means. It's very simple, I can teach it to a 4th grader, why don't you understand? Btw, I'm still waiting on your explanation on how economic goods can be "Rights"
Twiggy269 2 years ago
You have a low opinion of people's rights if you are against universal health care, which is a right in every industrialized nation but yours. Your stuck with third world health care and have no intention of changing it fior anything better. When the insurance company bureaucrat who makes your medical decisions denies you life saving treatment, you'll find out that the US has third world health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
mur. You're an idiot. Insurance comapnies can't deny you treatment from a doctor, they can simply deny to PAY for it, you can still get all the treatment you want, you just have to pay for it. Unlike in Canada, where you can't pay for it, and its the government who can REALLY deny you your treatment since they can prevent you from even SEEING a doctor.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
The Canadian government has absolutely no say in medical decisions. We see whatever physician we want and it is between us and our physicians alone what medical decisions are made.
murphyj87 2 years ago
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Twiggy269 2 years ago
you have a disconnect between the right to produce (which you disregard as a right, because if you acknowledged the right to produce and keep what you earn, it would destroy all of the other "Rights" you like) and the right TO goods that are produced. Example. You have the right, to buy potatos. You can go to the store, and give the store some money and take home potatos. You DO NOT have the RIGHT to potatos. If you have the right to the good, the producer of the good, becomes a SLAVE.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
You can have the third world health care that you love so much. Canadians want no part of any system like that. We want the better health care we have here and we want no part of any system like Americans have, one which kills 45,000 citizens a year. You should be ashamed of insurance-run health care, but, since you aren't, we will continue look down on your inferior third world health care system.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I most certainly am ashamed of Americas terribly ran health care system. But for very different reasons than you are. If you got your way, you'd turn America into that thrid world country you keep talking about, while if I had mine, people would be left alone to make their own decisions on how they live. They would pay for their OWN care, and get it MUCH cheaper. Why is it that the less the government is involved in any part of a market, the better it operates?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
Keep arguing to keep the third world health care you've had for decades. We just laugh at stupid Americans like you who think they have any kind of health care at all. Canadians laugh at your third world health care system and we know that we get far better health care in Canada than Americans have.
murphyj87 2 years ago