Well... if I had just created a world and many living beings, and I had just finished it. My rest would be, to sit back and enjoy that which I created. I presume that's probably what God did.
REV14:9-11 The lost - Those who receive the Mark of the Beast.
REV14:12 - The saved - Those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
REV14:7 Is quoting part of THE 4TH COMMANDMENT - EX20:11.
With the Roman Catholic "church" declaring that "Sunday is our MARK of authority", desecrating God's Sabbath day is ANOTHER SIN that will debar men from Heaven when the Mark is enforced.
REV9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues YET REPENTED NOT of the works of their hands, that they SHOULD NOT WORSHIP DEVILS, ...
REV9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, NOR OF THEIR THEFTS.
Worshipping devils - 1st commandment.
Thefts/stealing - 8th commandment.
2 more commandments if VIOLATED, that will prohibit men from entering God's Kingdom.
@mark0454 REV22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
REV22:15 FOR WITHOUT are dogs, and sorcerers, and WHOREMONGERS, and MURDERERS, and IDOLATERS, and whosover loveth AND MAKETH A LIE.
Whoremongers (adultery), murderers, idolaters, liars - That's 4 out of the 10 commandments that VIOLATING will keep folks out of the Kingdom.
WANNA BET that breaking the other 6 will do the same?
Brother you seem to know scripture very well. And I want to pound the pulpit and say amen when you speak so confidently of the Grace of God in the sacrifice of Christ for our salvation.
But it is enteresting that with your know ledge of scripture that you would miss the overarching message of the NT that not only is our salvation in Christ, but our righteousness is in His teachings in the NT and not the Law or 10Cs of the OT.
The entire book of John never even mentions the Law or 10cs
Brother, I have read hundreds of your comments on YT. Your concept of salvation would reserve you a front row pew at any fundamental Baptist Church. However, it is then surprising that you return to the weak and beggarly elements of the Law.
Why do you continuously speak of the 10 commandments. Did Christ not redefine all but one or two of the 10c. Therefore, the 10c of Exodus no longer exist and are replaced by over 100 commandment of a higher expectation of righteousness. Cont
(cont) Eternal life is predicated on denying all and following Christ. This is made appartent by the verses that follow where Christ speaks of the reward to any, including the desciples, who fosake all and follow Him.
In all of the Gospels, Christ shows that the Law and the 10 commandments are insufficient for righteousness, which is only available through Him.
The 10 commandments are not found in the book of John at all and are not the context of John 14.15
Good morning Nirky. I hope you are well.There is no doubt that Christ is talking about the 10 commandments in the passages in Matt 19, Mark 10, and Luke 18. However, if Christ had considered keeping the 10 commandments the mark of righteousness, he would have told the young man; "Well done thou good and faithful servent, enter into the joys of the Lord.
The young man went away condemned. What I think the lesson of this passage is that eternaly life (cont.)
Look at the story of the rich young ruler again. Not only did the rich young ruler not even yet understand Christ's righteousness, he didn't even know his own unrighteousness! The ruler was covetous, he trusted in riches. Jesus told him to give all he had to the poor, and then follow Him. Mk 10:21 But the rich young ruler refused to give up his riches, and went away sorrowful. Jesus then says:
"How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” Mk 10:23
The rich young ruler thought he didn't trust in his riches. He no doubt thought he was right with God by how he lived. But when Jesus exposed his trust in riches-covetousness-he went away sorrowful.
That is the bad news. The good news is, Jesus forgives covetousness. And even more, Jesus says about overcoming trusting in riches--coveting money: "with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible." v27.
Not only does Jesus forgive the honest repenter who wants to turn from his old sinful ways, He gives him power by the gift of His Holy Spirit to overcome those ways, even as He overcame temptation and sin. Luke 9:23, Rom 8:1-4 This is being complete in Christ. Apart from Christ, there is no forgiveness, and there is no overcoming. "Without Me you can do nothing". Jn 15:5
Therefore we ought not to flee from His presence when we see our sin exposed, as it was for the rich young ruler, but rather we ought to stay with Him, confess and repent, turning away from our old sinful ways. It is then He is just and faithful to forgive all unrighteousness, and to give us strength by His Spirit to overcome, even as He overcame. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phil 4:13
Paul here is talking about the ceremonial law, which foreshadowed Christ's sacrificial death for our sins. The ordinances of the sacrificial ceremonial law used meat & drink offerings to picture when Jesus would have His body broken and shed His blood to redeem us from our sin.
That is why Paul says let no man judge you for not keeping the sacrificial new moon meat & drink holy days found in Lev 23, which ceremonially pictured future redemption in Christ. Now we have the real substance.
@Nirky i've heard that opinion a lot but it doesnt make sense in the context. the word Paul uses is 'sabbaton' which is the same word used in Luke 4:16, Acts 13:14 and Jeremiah 17:21-24. And in Matt 28:1. It only ever means the 7th day Sabbath or an entire week. Not trying to sound like a greek scholar but that word can't mean wat u say it means. And it can't mean an entire week cos've the context, cos this listing appears (2 Kings 4:23, Nehemiah 10:33, Amos 8:5, Hosea 2:11, Ezekiel 45:17, 46:3)
First, I don't think you understand fully the phrase "in context". In context refers to the context of what passage we are looking at, Col 2:14-17. Paul here is talking about holy day sabbaths which were new moon sacrificial meat & drink offering festival holy days, the ceremonial shadowy law, the ordinances of Lev 23. See also Heb 10:1.
God's weekly seventh day 4th commandment Sabbath has no meat or drink offerings, does not begin on a new moon, is never called a "shadow".
Secondly, trying to go to the Greek to prove what sabbaths Paul is speaking of has an obvious problem. The problem is this: in the original Hebrew, God makes no distinction linguistically between the holy day new moon meat & drink sabbaths and the seventh day Sabbath. He uses the SAME HEBREW WORD for both Sabbaths, same for Greek. Hebrew: Shbth Greek: Sabbaton.
"Sabbath" is not a unique word, it simply means to cease. As with the original Hebrew, we need to look at context to determine meaning.
@Nirky but the new testament was written in greek, and in the greek thats what God actually says. I dont see what Hebrew has to do with anything.
Do u have nay proof that God uses the same every time? looking at 2 kings 4:3 their is an obvious distinction made.
Like i said, looking at the context its clear that its not talking about anything other than the sabbath bcos of the same usage we see from him in Galatians 4:10 and thruout the OUT
@Nirky was a bit thru checkin that out, wat site did u use for that? i use bible.cc and it has the word shabbat, not shbth then the word shabbatovn and it clearly distinguishes between the two, so there isnt any real similarity
But can u see my point thou, what hebrew says doesnt make a difference to the greek that Paul wrote in. And in Colossians 2:16 he either meant the seventh day sabbath or an entire 7 day week, God could not have meant anything else becos He didnt say anything else
I think you would greatly benefit from reading Lev 23, and all other scriptures which refer to those temporary ceremonial new moon meat & drink shadow sabbaths Paul refers to in Col 2:14-17. I think you will find they are markedly different than the seventh day of creation Sabbath, even though they share the same name-"sabbath", which word appears to be giving you trouble.
@Nirky well surely the way u read the new testament is in its immediate context and in the context of similar points made by the writer. and in the context of what the words mean to discerm what God is saying to us. Paul makes it clear that the Sabbath is a ceremonial and outward observance and done away with (Heb 9:10). Are u implying that the gentile Colossian church understood wat was ritten in Lev 23 to directly apply to one verse in his letter or did they understand it in its contxt?
One is the seventh day 4th commandment Sabbath Jesus made for us in a perfect world, blessed & sanctified it for us. Gen 2:2-3
The other sabbaths were yearly new moon meat & drink ceremonial shadow festivals, pointing forward to the time when Jesus would be sacrificed for our sin. God required Israel to present meat, drink, and grain offerings to symbolize Christ's sacrifice. Now therefore, let no one judge you for not keeping shadows. Col 2:14-17.
@Nirky well again, the greek makes it clear that its the 7th day of the week is being discussed. new moons and holy days are called just that in Colossians 2:16, they are all the other ceremonies that cud be done. The listing of yearly, monthly and weekly celebrations is the same in (2 Kings 4:23, Nehemiah 10:33, Amos 8:5, Hosea 2:11, Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1,3, Isaiah 1:13, Isaiah 66:23). so why don't we take the scripture for what it clearly teaches?
@Nirky well i have read it before. the reason that ur referring me there is bcos thats the only explaination that cud be possibly given to escape the context and the meaning and the historical interpretation of this text. But wen u see the same word used in Luke 4:16 or Acts 13:14 or Jeremiah 17:24 or Acts 16:13 u dont need to look at Lev 23 at any point, so why do u do it with this text?
No, the reason I am referring you to Lev 23 is that it is THERE you will find the new moon meat & drink holy day sabbaths.
Again, the 7th day Sabbath written by God's finger has no sacrifices, is not determined by the new moon, and is never called a shadow. But that describes exactly the ordinances (Col 2:14) of the feast day sabbaths. That someone has blinded you to seeing that is not my doing, I am doing all I can to help you to see Jesus and His word to us.
@Nirky in the greek OT Septugiant version Jer. is translated as using that word. but again does the word of God not clearly state that u dont have to keep the Sabbath to be saved? col 2:16 says the 7th day sabbath u cant get around that. well i wudnt say ive been decieved as Christians have historically always gathered together on Sundays and havnt forced converts to keep the sabbath. ur denomination is completely at odds with all protestant belief and the early church and theres proof 4 that
You are attempting to put words in my mouth, please do not do this. As I showed you on the other thread, we are justified ONLY by faith in Him. See also Eph 2:8. His grace is His best gift to us! Rom 5:8 I never said keeping the Sabbath saves anyone. Jesus doesn't say that, He says all who inherit eternal life (those who are saved) KEEP His 10 Commandments. The evidence that we are His, and have been justified in Christ--is in our walk, that we do as He says, keeping His commandments.
@Nirky well Jesus says they will keep his commandments (what he commanded). again, bcos John says 'commandments' that doesnt mean specifically and only the ten commands. the 'ceremonial law', in ur opinion, commands ppl to love their neighbour, to not commit acts of homosexuality and to not practice witchcraft, christ says we shudnt lust, anger or insult. these are things christians shudnt do but are not in the 10 commands, does keeping Christ commands not involve abstaining frm these also?
The ceremonial law was the sacrificial law system, which pictured future deliverance from sin in Christ. That shadowy sacrificial law involved the slaying of animals, meat & drink offerings, ceremonial washings, annual new moon holy days--sabbaths. As I have related to you, yet you have so far closed your ears, the 10 commandments have NONE of these--no ceremonial washings, no new moons, no meat nor drink offerings, no sacrifices. The 10 Commandments are His SPIRITUAL law. Rom 7:14.
His 10 Commandments are much deeper and far reaching than you believe. They define what constitutes sin. Rom 3:20 And when Jesus came, one of the prophecies concerning His ministry was that He would "magnify the law" (Isa 42:21), show it's spiritual meaning.
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matt 5:27-28
So the commandment mentions nothing about having lustful thoughts in ones heart being sin, but from Jesus we know it is, just thinking those thoughts is breaking the commandment.
Homosexuality, having lustful thoughts and desires for someone of the same gender with whom God has not designed you to be with, is breaking both the 5th & 7th commandments (at least), and is sin. Witchcraft is having another god instead of the LORD, that is the 1st commandment.
@Nirky Mark 12:29, Matt 19:19 and 22:40 show that everywhere Christ says commandments he doesnt always mean the 10.
When Christ discussed that commandment he said that the old Law says u shudnt commit adultery, but i say u shudnt lust. just like the old law said hate ur enemy, but i say pray for them. it doesnt make any sense to try and fit every sin into the ten commands so that u can make ur point, bcos lets be honest it just doesnt make sense for Jesus to be talkin bout the 10 commands only
Regarding Mark 12:29, Matt 19:19 and 22:40, either He means exactly what He says, that those who enter into eternal life keep the Ten Commandments (See also Rev 14:12), or now the Ten Commandments have somehow become the Five.
If that were the case, and Jesus is teaching us there are now FIVE commandments those who enter eternal life keep, where is THAT teaching in the NT? Show it please, scripture/verse. If you cannot find it, we must conclude He is talking about His 10 Commandments.
@Nirky yh in those scriptures he means what he says, 'commandments' are things that some1 commands. You're making the assertion that that word always means the 10, scripture disproves that. In lev 22:31, ex 34:32 ceremonial laws are called commandments. so its illogical to say that word always refers to the 10.
i didnt say the 10 have now become 5, i'm pointing out that Jesus quoted a command from leviticus and said it was a commandment. again with rev 14:12 simply says commandments, nuthin else
Jesus says all these 3 places that those who enter into life keep the commandments.
Like you, the rich young ruler asked "Which ones?"
In response to the young ruler's question, Jesus starts listing His Ten Commandments. He gets done listing five of the ten before the rich young ruler responds to Him.
@Nirky "Jesus says all these 3 places that those who enter into life keep the commandments." Brother, Christ only says this in one account and does not say "eternal"life.
However what He says in all three accounts is if you want treasures in heaven, the kingdom of God, salvation, the forsake all and follow Christ.
However, the message of Matt 19, Mark 10 and Luke 18 the insufficiency of the 10 commandments for righteousness to attain the Kingdom of Heaven (God).
So Jesus' definition of the commandments we are to keep, the ones which those who inherit eternal life keep, are either His 10 commandments, or somehow He is now teaching those who inherit eternal life keep just 5 of them. That is straight from Jesus.
So my question to you is, since you deny Jesus is talking about His ten commandments, please therefore show where the teaching is elsewhere in the NT where His commandments are now 5, and exactly those 5 He listed. Scripture/verse please.
@Nirky wow, again, thats not what i'm saying. wen He told the rich man to keep the commandments He was talking about the law. To inherit eternal life u must keep the law. But no one can keep it bcos all are under sin. Again i am not saying u keep 5 commands to get into heaven. I'm saying u repent and trust in Christ and then do what He(in the gospels) has commanded.
When Christ said keep the commandments the rich man asked wich 1s (Matt19:18) becos that word doesnt dogmatically refer to the 10
You claim when we read the word "commandments" in the NT it doesn't mean His law, His Ten Commandments.
But according to Jesus, when He says "the commandments", it means just that, His Ten Commandments, the ways that those who inherit eternal life keep. We see His definition of commandments in Mark 10:17, Matt 19:16, Luke 18:18.
"But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:16
Then you try and argue that in Mark 10:17, Matt 19:16 & Luke 18:18 Jesus doesn't list all Ten of His Commandments, so He must be talking about something else, then you get kinda confused and do not make coherent thought.
Then you concede Jesus is indeed talking about His Ten Commandments, but your new lie is nobody can really keep them.
I urge you to look honestly at what you have been taught, for what you have related here does not match with what Jesus says. Will we have faith and believe what He says, even though it may go against what we may have been taught?
Concerning this subject, I am glad we had this conversation, and will allow it to stand. But this subject is of the utmost importance, this is literally a matter of eternal life or eternal death. Please do not post more to this video to try and justify your ideas--there can be no justification if not based on scripture. We have a clear "thus sayeth the LORD", from the LORD Jesus Himself. KEEP His commandments, He tells us in no uncertain terms which ones. God bless your walk with Him.
From what I understand, and please correct me if i'm wrong, you believe that the sabbath is the seal of God, so in order to receive the seal, you must keep the sabbath. And if you don't keep the sabbath you are not accepting the mark of God's authority.
The logic then concludes that the sabbath must be kept in order to be saved, does it not?
Just something additional thought that came to my mind today.
It has been said to me that the ten commandments cannot change because God cannot change, and the same people say that the ten commandments are the eternal characteristics of God.
If the sabbath had a beginning, which we can see in scripture, how can the sabbath be an eternal characteristic of God? That would mean that the sabbath hasn't always been around, thus a characteristic of God has changed.
@Nirky well is there anywhere in scripture that actually says that there are two laws? and the ten commandments were ritten twice by Moses, thats why we've got in Deuteronomy and Exodus. Of course the ten commandments were made bcos of sin? why else were they made?
Well... if I had just created a world and many living beings, and I had just finished it. My rest would be, to sit back and enjoy that which I created. I presume that's probably what God did.
RudeAwakning 2 weeks ago
@mark0454
REV14:9-11 The lost - Those who receive the Mark of the Beast.
REV14:12 - The saved - Those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
REV14:7 Is quoting part of THE 4TH COMMANDMENT - EX20:11.
With the Roman Catholic "church" declaring that "Sunday is our MARK of authority", desecrating God's Sabbath day is ANOTHER SIN that will debar men from Heaven when the Mark is enforced.
strivetoenterin 1 year ago
@mark0454
REV9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues YET REPENTED NOT of the works of their hands, that they SHOULD NOT WORSHIP DEVILS, ...
REV9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, NOR OF THEIR THEFTS.
Worshipping devils - 1st commandment.
Thefts/stealing - 8th commandment.
2 more commandments if VIOLATED, that will prohibit men from entering God's Kingdom.
strivetoenterin 1 year ago
@mark0454 REV22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
REV22:15 FOR WITHOUT are dogs, and sorcerers, and WHOREMONGERS, and MURDERERS, and IDOLATERS, and whosover loveth AND MAKETH A LIE.
Whoremongers (adultery), murderers, idolaters, liars - That's 4 out of the 10 commandments that VIOLATING will keep folks out of the Kingdom.
WANNA BET that breaking the other 6 will do the same?
strivetoenterin 1 year ago
Brother you seem to know scripture very well. And I want to pound the pulpit and say amen when you speak so confidently of the Grace of God in the sacrifice of Christ for our salvation.
But it is enteresting that with your know ledge of scripture that you would miss the overarching message of the NT that not only is our salvation in Christ, but our righteousness is in His teachings in the NT and not the Law or 10Cs of the OT.
The entire book of John never even mentions the Law or 10cs
mark0454 1 year ago
Brother, I have read hundreds of your comments on YT. Your concept of salvation would reserve you a front row pew at any fundamental Baptist Church. However, it is then surprising that you return to the weak and beggarly elements of the Law.
Why do you continuously speak of the 10 commandments. Did Christ not redefine all but one or two of the 10c. Therefore, the 10c of Exodus no longer exist and are replaced by over 100 commandment of a higher expectation of righteousness. Cont
mark0454 1 year ago
(cont) Eternal life is predicated on denying all and following Christ. This is made appartent by the verses that follow where Christ speaks of the reward to any, including the desciples, who fosake all and follow Him.
In all of the Gospels, Christ shows that the Law and the 10 commandments are insufficient for righteousness, which is only available through Him.
The 10 commandments are not found in the book of John at all and are not the context of John 14.15
mark0454 1 year ago
Good morning Nirky. I hope you are well.There is no doubt that Christ is talking about the 10 commandments in the passages in Matt 19, Mark 10, and Luke 18. However, if Christ had considered keeping the 10 commandments the mark of righteousness, he would have told the young man; "Well done thou good and faithful servent, enter into the joys of the Lord.
The young man went away condemned. What I think the lesson of this passage is that eternaly life (cont.)
mark0454 1 year ago
@mark0454
Look at the story of the rich young ruler again. Not only did the rich young ruler not even yet understand Christ's righteousness, he didn't even know his own unrighteousness! The ruler was covetous, he trusted in riches. Jesus told him to give all he had to the poor, and then follow Him. Mk 10:21 But the rich young ruler refused to give up his riches, and went away sorrowful. Jesus then says:
"How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” Mk 10:23
Nirky 1 year ago 2
@mark0454
The rich young ruler thought he didn't trust in his riches. He no doubt thought he was right with God by how he lived. But when Jesus exposed his trust in riches-covetousness-he went away sorrowful.
That is the bad news. The good news is, Jesus forgives covetousness. And even more, Jesus says about overcoming trusting in riches--coveting money: "with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible." v27.
Nirky 1 year ago
@mark0454
Not only does Jesus forgive the honest repenter who wants to turn from his old sinful ways, He gives him power by the gift of His Holy Spirit to overcome those ways, even as He overcame temptation and sin. Luke 9:23, Rom 8:1-4 This is being complete in Christ. Apart from Christ, there is no forgiveness, and there is no overcoming. "Without Me you can do nothing". Jn 15:5
Nirky 1 year ago
@mark0454
Therefore we ought not to flee from His presence when we see our sin exposed, as it was for the rich young ruler, but rather we ought to stay with Him, confess and repent, turning away from our old sinful ways. It is then He is just and faithful to forgive all unrighteousness, and to give us strength by His Spirit to overcome, even as He overcame. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phil 4:13
Nirky 1 year ago
Colossians 2:16 maybe?
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Col 2:14-17
Nirky 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Paul here is talking about the ceremonial law, which foreshadowed Christ's sacrificial death for our sins. The ordinances of the sacrificial ceremonial law used meat & drink offerings to picture when Jesus would have His body broken and shed His blood to redeem us from our sin.
That is why Paul says let no man judge you for not keeping the sacrificial new moon meat & drink holy days found in Lev 23, which ceremonially pictured future redemption in Christ. Now we have the real substance.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky i've heard that opinion a lot but it doesnt make sense in the context. the word Paul uses is 'sabbaton' which is the same word used in Luke 4:16, Acts 13:14 and Jeremiah 17:21-24. And in Matt 28:1. It only ever means the 7th day Sabbath or an entire week. Not trying to sound like a greek scholar but that word can't mean wat u say it means. And it can't mean an entire week cos've the context, cos this listing appears (2 Kings 4:23, Nehemiah 10:33, Amos 8:5, Hosea 2:11, Ezekiel 45:17, 46:3)
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
First, I don't think you understand fully the phrase "in context". In context refers to the context of what passage we are looking at, Col 2:14-17. Paul here is talking about holy day sabbaths which were new moon sacrificial meat & drink offering festival holy days, the ceremonial shadowy law, the ordinances of Lev 23. See also Heb 10:1.
God's weekly seventh day 4th commandment Sabbath has no meat or drink offerings, does not begin on a new moon, is never called a "shadow".
Nirky 1 year ago
Secondly, trying to go to the Greek to prove what sabbaths Paul is speaking of has an obvious problem. The problem is this: in the original Hebrew, God makes no distinction linguistically between the holy day new moon meat & drink sabbaths and the seventh day Sabbath. He uses the SAME HEBREW WORD for both Sabbaths, same for Greek. Hebrew: Shbth Greek: Sabbaton.
"Sabbath" is not a unique word, it simply means to cease. As with the original Hebrew, we need to look at context to determine meaning.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky but the new testament was written in greek, and in the greek thats what God actually says. I dont see what Hebrew has to do with anything.
Do u have nay proof that God uses the same every time? looking at 2 kings 4:3 their is an obvious distinction made.
Like i said, looking at the context its clear that its not talking about anything other than the sabbath bcos of the same usage we see from him in Galatians 4:10 and thruout the OUT
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Check out my short video "SHBTH-Hebrew word for Sabbath". God bless.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky was a bit thru checkin that out, wat site did u use for that? i use bible.cc and it has the word shabbat, not shbth then the word shabbatovn and it clearly distinguishes between the two, so there isnt any real similarity
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
You can find many online Hebrew & Greek Interlinear Bibles. I used the one at
w w w(.)scripture4all(.)org / OnlineInterlinear / Hebrew_Index(.)htm
Keep studying prayerfully. God bless!
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky oh ok yh thanks for that.
But can u see my point thou, what hebrew says doesnt make a difference to the greek that Paul wrote in. And in Colossians 2:16 he either meant the seventh day sabbath or an entire 7 day week, God could not have meant anything else becos He didnt say anything else
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
I think you would greatly benefit from reading Lev 23, and all other scriptures which refer to those temporary ceremonial new moon meat & drink shadow sabbaths Paul refers to in Col 2:14-17. I think you will find they are markedly different than the seventh day of creation Sabbath, even though they share the same name-"sabbath", which word appears to be giving you trouble.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky well surely the way u read the new testament is in its immediate context and in the context of similar points made by the writer. and in the context of what the words mean to discerm what God is saying to us. Paul makes it clear that the Sabbath is a ceremonial and outward observance and done away with (Heb 9:10). Are u implying that the gentile Colossian church understood wat was ritten in Lev 23 to directly apply to one verse in his letter or did they understand it in its contxt?
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
There are two sabbaths in scripture.
One is the seventh day 4th commandment Sabbath Jesus made for us in a perfect world, blessed & sanctified it for us. Gen 2:2-3
The other sabbaths were yearly new moon meat & drink ceremonial shadow festivals, pointing forward to the time when Jesus would be sacrificed for our sin. God required Israel to present meat, drink, and grain offerings to symbolize Christ's sacrifice. Now therefore, let no one judge you for not keeping shadows. Col 2:14-17.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky well again, the greek makes it clear that its the 7th day of the week is being discussed. new moons and holy days are called just that in Colossians 2:16, they are all the other ceremonies that cud be done. The listing of yearly, monthly and weekly celebrations is the same in (2 Kings 4:23, Nehemiah 10:33, Amos 8:5, Hosea 2:11, Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1,3, Isaiah 1:13, Isaiah 66:23). so why don't we take the scripture for what it clearly teaches?
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Did you read Leviticus 23 yet?
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky well i have read it before. the reason that ur referring me there is bcos thats the only explaination that cud be possibly given to escape the context and the meaning and the historical interpretation of this text. But wen u see the same word used in Luke 4:16 or Acts 13:14 or Jeremiah 17:24 or Acts 16:13 u dont need to look at Lev 23 at any point, so why do u do it with this text?
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Jeremiah is in Hebrew.
No, the reason I am referring you to Lev 23 is that it is THERE you will find the new moon meat & drink holy day sabbaths.
Again, the 7th day Sabbath written by God's finger has no sacrifices, is not determined by the new moon, and is never called a shadow. But that describes exactly the ordinances (Col 2:14) of the feast day sabbaths. That someone has blinded you to seeing that is not my doing, I am doing all I can to help you to see Jesus and His word to us.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky in the greek OT Septugiant version Jer. is translated as using that word. but again does the word of God not clearly state that u dont have to keep the Sabbath to be saved? col 2:16 says the 7th day sabbath u cant get around that. well i wudnt say ive been decieved as Christians have historically always gathered together on Sundays and havnt forced converts to keep the sabbath. ur denomination is completely at odds with all protestant belief and the early church and theres proof 4 that
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
You are attempting to put words in my mouth, please do not do this. As I showed you on the other thread, we are justified ONLY by faith in Him. See also Eph 2:8. His grace is His best gift to us! Rom 5:8 I never said keeping the Sabbath saves anyone. Jesus doesn't say that, He says all who inherit eternal life (those who are saved) KEEP His 10 Commandments. The evidence that we are His, and have been justified in Christ--is in our walk, that we do as He says, keeping His commandments.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky well Jesus says they will keep his commandments (what he commanded). again, bcos John says 'commandments' that doesnt mean specifically and only the ten commands. the 'ceremonial law', in ur opinion, commands ppl to love their neighbour, to not commit acts of homosexuality and to not practice witchcraft, christ says we shudnt lust, anger or insult. these are things christians shudnt do but are not in the 10 commands, does keeping Christ commands not involve abstaining frm these also?
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
The ceremonial law was the sacrificial law system, which pictured future deliverance from sin in Christ. That shadowy sacrificial law involved the slaying of animals, meat & drink offerings, ceremonial washings, annual new moon holy days--sabbaths. As I have related to you, yet you have so far closed your ears, the 10 commandments have NONE of these--no ceremonial washings, no new moons, no meat nor drink offerings, no sacrifices. The 10 Commandments are His SPIRITUAL law. Rom 7:14.
Nirky 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
His 10 Commandments are much deeper and far reaching than you believe. They define what constitutes sin. Rom 3:20 And when Jesus came, one of the prophecies concerning His ministry was that He would "magnify the law" (Isa 42:21), show it's spiritual meaning.
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matt 5:27-28
Nirky 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
So the commandment mentions nothing about having lustful thoughts in ones heart being sin, but from Jesus we know it is, just thinking those thoughts is breaking the commandment.
Homosexuality, having lustful thoughts and desires for someone of the same gender with whom God has not designed you to be with, is breaking both the 5th & 7th commandments (at least), and is sin. Witchcraft is having another god instead of the LORD, that is the 1st commandment.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky Mark 12:29, Matt 19:19 and 22:40 show that everywhere Christ says commandments he doesnt always mean the 10.
When Christ discussed that commandment he said that the old Law says u shudnt commit adultery, but i say u shudnt lust. just like the old law said hate ur enemy, but i say pray for them. it doesnt make any sense to try and fit every sin into the ten commands so that u can make ur point, bcos lets be honest it just doesnt make sense for Jesus to be talkin bout the 10 commands only
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Regarding Mark 12:29, Matt 19:19 and 22:40, either He means exactly what He says, that those who enter into eternal life keep the Ten Commandments (See also Rev 14:12), or now the Ten Commandments have somehow become the Five.
If that were the case, and Jesus is teaching us there are now FIVE commandments those who enter eternal life keep, where is THAT teaching in the NT? Show it please, scripture/verse. If you cannot find it, we must conclude He is talking about His 10 Commandments.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky yh in those scriptures he means what he says, 'commandments' are things that some1 commands. You're making the assertion that that word always means the 10, scripture disproves that. In lev 22:31, ex 34:32 ceremonial laws are called commandments. so its illogical to say that word always refers to the 10.
i didnt say the 10 have now become 5, i'm pointing out that Jesus quoted a command from leviticus and said it was a commandment. again with rev 14:12 simply says commandments, nuthin else
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Jesus says all these 3 places that those who enter into life keep the commandments.
Like you, the rich young ruler asked "Which ones?"
In response to the young ruler's question, Jesus starts listing His Ten Commandments. He gets done listing five of the ten before the rich young ruler responds to Him.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky "Jesus says all these 3 places that those who enter into life keep the commandments." Brother, Christ only says this in one account and does not say "eternal"life.
However what He says in all three accounts is if you want treasures in heaven, the kingdom of God, salvation, the forsake all and follow Christ.
However, the message of Matt 19, Mark 10 and Luke 18 the insufficiency of the 10 commandments for righteousness to attain the Kingdom of Heaven (God).
mark0454 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
So Jesus' definition of the commandments we are to keep, the ones which those who inherit eternal life keep, are either His 10 commandments, or somehow He is now teaching those who inherit eternal life keep just 5 of them. That is straight from Jesus.
So my question to you is, since you deny Jesus is talking about His ten commandments, please therefore show where the teaching is elsewhere in the NT where His commandments are now 5, and exactly those 5 He listed. Scripture/verse please.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky wow, again, thats not what i'm saying. wen He told the rich man to keep the commandments He was talking about the law. To inherit eternal life u must keep the law. But no one can keep it bcos all are under sin. Again i am not saying u keep 5 commands to get into heaven. I'm saying u repent and trust in Christ and then do what He(in the gospels) has commanded.
When Christ said keep the commandments the rich man asked wich 1s (Matt19:18) becos that word doesnt dogmatically refer to the 10
e7c7o7 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Let's sum up what we have.
You claim when we read the word "commandments" in the NT it doesn't mean His law, His Ten Commandments.
But according to Jesus, when He says "the commandments", it means just that, His Ten Commandments, the ways that those who inherit eternal life keep. We see His definition of commandments in Mark 10:17, Matt 19:16, Luke 18:18.
"But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:16
Nirky 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Then you try and argue that in Mark 10:17, Matt 19:16 & Luke 18:18 Jesus doesn't list all Ten of His Commandments, so He must be talking about something else, then you get kinda confused and do not make coherent thought.
Then you concede Jesus is indeed talking about His Ten Commandments, but your new lie is nobody can really keep them.
Nirky 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Well let me tell you, Jesus is not playing games with those He dearly loves. Again, He tells us, clearly:
"But if you will enter into life, KEEP the commandments." Matt 19:16
"If you love Me, KEEP My commandments" Jn 14:15
He says you CAN KEEP THEM!
Nirky 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
I urge you to look honestly at what you have been taught, for what you have related here does not match with what Jesus says. Will we have faith and believe what He says, even though it may go against what we may have been taught?
Nirky 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Concerning this subject, I am glad we had this conversation, and will allow it to stand. But this subject is of the utmost importance, this is literally a matter of eternal life or eternal death. Please do not post more to this video to try and justify your ideas--there can be no justification if not based on scripture. We have a clear "thus sayeth the LORD", from the LORD Jesus Himself. KEEP His commandments, He tells us in no uncertain terms which ones. God bless your walk with Him.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky
From what I understand, and please correct me if i'm wrong, you believe that the sabbath is the seal of God, so in order to receive the seal, you must keep the sabbath. And if you don't keep the sabbath you are not accepting the mark of God's authority.
The logic then concludes that the sabbath must be kept in order to be saved, does it not?
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
Just something additional thought that came to my mind today.
It has been said to me that the ten commandments cannot change because God cannot change, and the same people say that the ten commandments are the eternal characteristics of God.
If the sabbath had a beginning, which we can see in scripture, how can the sabbath be an eternal characteristic of God? That would mean that the sabbath hasn't always been around, thus a characteristic of God has changed.
A small dilemma appears.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
@e7c7o7
Here are some differences I've found:
One was created before sin. Gen 2:2-3
One was created because of sin. Gal 3:19
One God wrote with His finger into stone. Ex 24:12
One Moses wrote with his hand on parchment. Ex 24:4
One Jesus says He is LORD of. Mark 2:27-28
The other Jesus says were for the Jews. John 5:1, 6:4, 7:2
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky well is there anywhere in scripture that actually says that there are two laws? and the ten commandments were ritten twice by Moses, thats why we've got in Deuteronomy and Exodus. Of course the ten commandments were made bcos of sin? why else were they made?
e7c7o7 1 year ago