Milton Friedman - The Welfare Establishment

[stebecool]

I'm pretty sure I've watched every Friedman video on YouTube and I WANT MORE!

[LibertyDownUnder]

I found a point I disagree with Milton Friedman on.

You will too at 1:09

[Zoravar0v0]

@LibertyDownUnder ha... good one

[Spjungen]

It's funny, when people think of Sweden and how successful the welfare state is, they don't realize that actually about 85% of Swedes' tax payments get returned to them, and rarely trickle down...so essentially they're paying the government so they can later pay for their own shit...which is stupid in my opinion, it's like having your friend deliver five dollars to another friend instead of delivering them yourself; the middle friend might take some of the money.

[06mustangCE]

fucking buffoon.

[amzinasain]

@06mustangCE if you're so smart why don't you go win a Nobel prize?

[rcmeyerson]

Can someone explain to me why Friedman is an advocate of the Negative income tax? That has always perplexed me.

[TheWinepusher]

@rcmeyerson It's confused me too. Frm what I understand, Friedman was extremely pragmatic and saw the NIT as the most palatable form of redistribution that could exist in a free market economy. In reality, he opposes all forms of redistribution. His reasoning is that if redistribution must exist in society, the NIT is the 'program' most consistent with his free market convictions.

[rcmeyerson]

@TheWinepusher So what you're saying is that you think he was for it, only because society would not immediately vote out all welfare, but that it might be the most inline with his ideology that would be politically viable?

[kriskats19]

You aren't allowed to talk about minorities anymore unless you are promising free stuff aka Dream Act or Affirmative Action.

[mzmaj7]

is that Cornel West at 8:52??

[ElJefer]

I wonder if watching these videos is on the list of suspected terrorist characteristics

[rmeyerson2]

Everything he was talking about in his lectures during the 70's as problems have been amplified 10 fold. Sigh

[nphanlon1973]

Bismarck introduced welfare into germany in order to strengthen the loyalty of the people to the state

[yellowchellow1]

Milton Friedman is such a bright man

[latasha66]

Genius.

[TheThejoseph]

what sucks is my right speaker is blown out....

[Mishkafofer]

Israel implemented partial negative tax program, but then again our prime minister is Bibi and not Barry.

[032125]

I like Milton Friedman to a point, but Murray Rothbard kicks the living shit out of him when it comes to logical consistency. Watch the YT videos "Murray N. Rothbard on Milton Friedman" some time. Murray is the man.

That said, Milton had a great way of positing complex ideas in layman accessible terms. He was a great teacher, when he was right.

[shaqdaddy11]

@dacrunkqb11 haha good one.

[shaqdaddy11]

Barry and joe biden are the two people who dislike this video.

[dacrunkqb11]

He may be clueless on money, but god I love Milt. Thumbs up!!

[shaqdaddy11]

@dacrunkqb11 im guessing your an austrian?

[mduby28]

@dacrunkqb11 how is he clueless on money?

[groam6666]

I feel like Milton Friedman is foreshadowing Obama. Everything he says sounds like it's directly implied to Obama lol. It's amazing if you ask me.

[shaqdaddy11]

@groam6666 This only proves that Obama is not coming up with anything new. He is just recycling the same old ideas from the early part of the 1900s and calling them progress. Obama is just in luck that most voters dont know that these ideas have been tried before and failed.

[flipgood89]

@shaqdaddy11 ...what has been tried before and failed, exactly?

[Gamermatt99]

Friedman's my homeboy.

[robn8r72]

All government "assistance" is SLAVERY.

SMASH THE WELFARE STATE.

[testmark1]

@robn8r72 not all government assistance. remember. friedman has qualified that helping in distress is ok. E.g. an earthquake.

[robn8r72]

@testmark1 I stand by my statement. There is NOTHING that government can do that average citizens can't do better, more efficiently, and at a smaller cost overall. Government doesn't solve problems. Government IS the problem.

[TimeWarp66]

@robn8r72

yes!

[daveassanowicz]

1 person doesn't want to be free.

[Charlesperalo]

Friedman is without a doubt a life changer. 

[flipgood89]

@Charlesperalo ....Not only has friedman drive the sociopathic character of our political and economic system, he has make us a schizophrenic nation as well. How do we link "freedom" with a market that makes people work harder for less, and directs all of the money to the top, while punishing the working and middle class, and especially the poor? Thats freedom? In our zeal to defend capitalism and the American exceptionalism, we argue against our own self interests and ignore basic facts.

[FRSFreeStatePlus]

The Welfare State or Safety Net as I would prefer. Should just be for the people who need it. And designed to empower people to move themselves to Self Sufficiency instead of making people dependent on it indefinitely.

[FRSFreeStatePlus]

@flipgood89

If you just give money to poor people and not expect anything from them. Instead of empowering them to become Self Sufficient, you make them dependent.

[flipgood89]

@FRSFreeStatePlus ...again, enacting policies that keep the wealth centralized in the hands of the few keeps people poor, not welfare. This is just way to attack the poor and cover for the rich.

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 The welfare bureaucracy is a system of policies wherein unearned wealth and unjustified authority is concentrated into the hands of a few welfare bureaucrats. Welfare enslaves the poor while enriching the kleptocrats that run the system.

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ....define "earned wealth"....are we to assume that the united states has produced a meritocracy, where, from birth, each and every american has equal access in pursuit of the American dream? If so, why is wealth and success strongly linked to family holdings, more so than IQ, which would suggest we are much closer to an aristocracy than meritocracy.

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 So you are saying that, in the name of leveling inequities of opportunity caused by inheritance and an accumulation of wealth due to commerce, a bureaucracy needs to be formed and strengthened that rewards an elite based on their nepotistic relationships? How is a kleptocratic system based on managing the poor like herd animals justified as a means of making a system based on free competition and free consumer choices more "equitable"?

Our present welfare system is insane.

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ....Clarify "rewards an elite based on their nepostistic relationships"....Im confused. Furthermore, we seem to have constructed this idea that the successful do it all on their own, up from their "bootstraps", when in actually a great majority were born in extremely advantageous situations. So in order to prevent an aristocracy, where the poor and the middle class have little chance for social mobility, we have to live up to "american exceptionalism", and not disadvantage the majority.

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 Sure. People in the welfare bureaucracy frequently get their jobs because they are either friends with established employees or their relatives. Most government jobs are acquired in this fashion - certainly so where I live.

We haven't "constructed" this idea of self-made entrepreneurs. We have observed the phenomena in the real world, and have thus inferred it from such evidence. Or were Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates born with silver spoons in their mouths?

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ...Jobs, Gates, and Buffet were born poor? Even if they were, thats not "observable phenomena", those are exceptions to the rule. Every reputable study has reflected that individual success is a measure of class background, not merit and that people stay at their respective level of economic distribution. Sure it is possible for some to overcome the disadvantages, but thats like suggesting that since one person won the lottery, its possible for others to as well. What are the odds?

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 Steve Jobs was an adopted orphan who couldn't afford to go to college. Warren Buffett started out in business working in his grandfather's grocery store. Bill Gates Bill Gates had the best start - his father was a lawyer and he went to a prep school, but he dropped out of college before finishing.

Apparently real world facts have nothing to do with your "reputable studies". And how is empowering a kleptocratic government bureaucracy based on nepotism supposed to fix anything?

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 Go check on Milton Friedman's bio. He came from a family of Hungarian immigrants, and worked his way through college (at a time when that was still possible).

Success has plenty to do with talent and merit. Remember that many of the "rich" families in this country started out poor - to include the Kennedy family. Plenty of old rich families went in the other direction too.

I have yet to hear, however, how our welfare programs helped anyone in poverty out of it.

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 One other point. Class hatred is a common theme for international socialists, just as race hatred is a common theme for national socialists, to justify all sorts of ideas and programs which would clearly be seen as moral wrongs otherwise. I don't see how one sort of prejudice can be lauded while the other sort is reviled. I'd think both would be equally odious by now. There's nothing "reputable" about either.

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ...stop talking crazy and back up what you say for once. Direct me to a study that shows that we are a country that promotes circulation mobility....that one has just as good of a shot at success born from a family of little means, as a child born from a family with. So acknowledging that we are a society that stacks the deck against the poor is "class warfare", but the actual practice of favoring the rich isnt I suppose. I wonder how that works?

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 So what you're saying is that, if the situation for the poor and rich aren't equally level, that there is a justification for a nepotistic government bureaucracy that steals money from the rich and then keeps it?

If I have no car, and someone else does, he has a much better chance of getting to work on time than I do. Do I have the right, therefore, to steal his car? Do government employees thus have a right to steal his money, in my name, and keep it for themselves?

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ...your political orientation is so one-sided. You dont want to acknowledge the advantages the rich are afforded, the tax shelters, loopholes, and the outright subsidizing that we as tax payers make on their behalf and for their benefit. You dont want to acknowledge that the wealthy are there because of extreme advantages that they had which were at the expense of others. To you, the successful operate on this completely isolated island of wealth they created on their own.

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 "One sided?" Because I won't get side-tracked from the theme of this video - the deplorable state of the Welfare Establishment? Because I won't join in with a hateful refrain for the wealthy and productive part of society?

Why won't you acknowledge that this paternalistic, kleptocratic bureaucracy is designed primarily to enrich government employees rather than help the poor? Why do you repeatedly try to change the subject - is it because of a "one-sided political orientation?"

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ...Dont try this soft con, you have no interest in helping the poor. Your smug and snide remarks make that painfully clear. To you, the rich are the only ones who are owed entitlements and handouts..They deserve all the breaks and advantages, no matter who they mistreat or exploit.  Its hilarious, because we know that a top-heavy, centralized at the top economy is devastating for the economy as whole due to a lack of economic exchange and flow, but the greedy cant help themselves.

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 "Soft con" now. I'm "smug" and "snide" because I won't be distracted. Maybe that's what this new tirade of insults is supposed to accomplish.

Well I'm not rich. I'm barely middle class. I know the Welfare Establishment from the bottom end, not from the top. And I'll tell you what - it's bad enough that they steal in my name, but I'll tell you that I get nothing from what they steal. They live pretty well off the proceeds however.

Screw you and your paternalism. I don't want it.

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ....oh, but you accept paternalism from your corporate daddies. You not only accept the inequalities they construct, you cheerlead them and scold welfare recipients for the little they receive just to sustain themselves and their families. Theft and fairness only extend to the interests of the elite. We should all just die so that we dont bother them anymore, and they can have the world to themselves.

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 I don't get paternalism from my bosses. I get paid. And I don't lose everything I have or go to jail if I don't do exactly what they tell me to do.

I'm forced to accept the Welfare Establishment, and I'm forced to pay for it, with the little I have, and in the name of "helping the poor" no less - adding insult to injury. Getting a job in this bureaucracy means being a friend or relative of someone already in it.

It's a rotten, dirty scam. Robbing more businesses won't fix it.

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel ...Dissecting your post reveals the paternalistic, dependent relationship you have with your corporate daddies. Thats why you refuse to criticize them. You know that with rampant downsizing, outsourcing, and pay gouging, your standing is unstable and untenable. Corporations routinely do the former, not because of profits, but to please shareholders. They care nothing about u or your family. If you were fired, um "downsized" you might, uh *gasp* have to get unemployment or welfare!

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 I don't like to be insulted, I don't like being talked down to, I don't like being patronized and treated like a slow-witted child, and I don't like someone telling me that what I've seen with my own eyes isn't going on. I'm not stupid, and I'm not easily distracted. I know when I'm being screwed over and ripped off, and I know who's doing it. The CEO responsible for the quality of my toothpaste isn't the responsible party.

I'm not buying what you're selling, kid. Forget it.

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel . You dont want to be insulted, yet you have no issue insulting people whom you do not know (the poor) by insinuating they are thieving and unproductive dregs on society. I'm not going to insult you personally, just the words you are responsible for, which are woefully misinformed and quite frankly ignorant. You dont want to acknowledge the deck that is stacked against a majority of Americans, and how YOU are a paycheck or two away from becoming a welfare recipient. You live in a bubble

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 I "insinuated" no such thing. What I said was that taxpayers are forced to pay into a system that enslaves the poor and enriches rich government bureaucrats. Your pals are going to "help" me, regardless of how loudly I tell them not to, and they're going to make me pay through the nose for it.

You know what? I'm tired of being called misinformed and ignorant by someone who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. So I'm done with this. You can have the last word.

[flipgood89]

@DrCruel (...continued) Then you'll become one of those *oh my god*, inhuman, unwashed, cretans that "sponges off of the nanny state!" But until that unimaginable day comes, where you become *the enemy*, know this --- you are already being hoodwinked. Our tax codes are unfair; the burden of taxes are being shouldered and absorbed by the working middle class (if you look at ratios and percentages)...Many of the largest corporations pay nothing, yet u are taken advantage of. But u blame the poor?

[DrCruel]

@flipgood89 Yes. Our tax codes are unfair - they draw wealth from people who work, and give it to a parasitic bureaucracy. The burden of taxes are being shouldered and absorbed by the working people and by entrepreneurs, to provide for nothing more than an easy life for union bosses and government employees. When I was in the US Army, based at Ft. Belvoir, I lived near enough to Washington DC to see what was going on first hand.

I don't blame the poor, and I don't blame me - like you did.

[testmark1]

@DrCruel what does this mean though? Government is like an organized crime family. Even if you wake up and realize that, there is very little that can be done.

[DrCruel]

@testmark1 Sure there is. There is one thing that earners can always do to combat kleptocracies - withhold their labor and their full productive capacity.

In fact, in most socialist societies such inefficiencies are forced. I'd argue that the problems of present government policy management are dominated by a constant struggle to see how little freedom can be parcelled out while maximizing profits for the political bureaucratic elite. Earners can always influence that cynical calculation.

[flipgood89]

@FRSFreeStatePlus ....theft, fraud, market manipulations, income growing for ceo's by hundreds of a percent, while wages for workers remain flatlined, and jobs are being eliminated. These things and more keep people "dependent on welfare" ....not aid.

[EddieSatan]

All of the dislikes of this video come from angry welfare establishment bureaucrats.

[johammbass]

Clear reason!!!

[jtizz711]

brilliant!

[5amuu]

audio is fine?

[sircharles2012]

Mohammedan? Chinaman? Why don't we use these terms any more?

[ugotpimp]

haha a chinaman!!! i miss the days before political correctness!

[PumpingSmashkins]

@ugotpimp What brilliant reasoning was it that concluded that "Chinaman" is "racist," anyway? Or "Frenchman," or "colored..."

[2plus2make4]

Brilliant talk.

[richardcadbury]

Rothbard's criticism of the -ve income tax is quite impressive.

[zalida100]

@richardcadbury Gimme a link to that buddy. gimme gimme gimme.

[karas89]

@zalida100 youtube.com/watch?v=DD0g6Et2M8­M Here you have part 1. The whole speech consists of 5 parts, the negative income tax issue was mentioned probably in part 2 or 3.

[zalida100]

@karas89 Oh - brilliant matey - Thanks very much. I really like rothbard stuff. Very kind of ya - cheers

[richardcadbury]

mises dot org/media/2322 ~ 17:30. But start -15:00 for a broader context on stigma. There's also the -ve income tax page on the mises wiki.

[zalida100]

@richardcadbury Ok - I read the wiki bit. Pretty good. I've listened to a couple of the parts that karas89 kindly told me about. I'm downloading the audio mises media 2322. I'll have a listen later. (looking forward to it).

Much appreciated - Thanks very much.

[Valamarth]

Only right channel? (audio)

[UncleEdNugent]

No audio?

[Killedkennyagain]

@UncleEdNugent Turn it way up and put your ear to the speaker, its there, just extremely low.

[Valdris1987]

audio is so low i can`t hear :(

[biozamadotcom]

3:45 brilliant. "if that money were really going to the poor, they'd be among the rich"

[1019079]

@biozamadotcom Uh, welfare isn't like some million dollar check every month.

[sdfkjllshadflhadfshl]

These numbers are even bigger today. If we actually wanted to end poverty we could do it easily with the money we already take in.

[RPenta]

Friedman is a statist in libertarian three piece suits.

[obtree]

@RPenta What is your definition of a statist?

[RPenta]

@obtree

When who uses the power of the state to increase it's police powers, spying, surveillance--all usually in support of the statist greatest enterprise: war and empire. Uncle Milton had no problem with the American Empire.

Don't tell me if you are liberal or conservative; Democrat, Independent, or Republican; tell me if you are for or against empire.

[obtree]

@RPenta I think you are mistaken. Friedman advocated for the abolishment of the state in all its parts that do not serve to defend the country militarily, or defend its citizens through the courts and legal system.

[TheWyldeGoose]

@TheLegalImmigrant05 But, he also pointed out the dangers of these institutions, and why it is preferable to return, eventually, to a decentralized system.

[fzqlcs]

@RPenta a rather weak defense of the welfare establishment if I do say.

[rtj3184]

Thanks. My Milton Friedman quota has been met for today.