Now, Oli, I hope you have read all my other comments before reading this one. And I apologize for loading this up with all of what I had to say, but I had a lot to say to explain the system to you and the outfall it will have.
Here is my personal take on fixing any other problems we have, look at what the dems have or ask a dem what their proposal is and hope you can find alternatives among them and pick the best one you can agree with, because that is all you will have when this is done with.
Ultimately, there is going to be a default, unless all the markets aim at hiring assassins to kill all the tea party republicans. And trust they will try to since a default will mean catastrophe to any business. But nonetheless, Barack Obama's goal is to destroy the Republican Party and the best means to accomplish that without derailing the democratic system which ingenious might I mind you is to continue pushing the Republican Party to the right and isolating them from swing voters.
So what Obama is going to do is continue to appeal to the right, by moving more to the right. People to the left or center would continue to vote for him or democrats, because that is the only true alternative to a more extreme rightest party that will end up be the fate of the Republicans. But the most beautiful part is that as Barack Obama continues to try and compromise with Republicans, it will make Republicans look like the bad guys, because they are the ones pushing for a default.
And as I had said, default is a bad thing, much worse when you in our position. We are not too big to fail. We are too big that we shouldn't fail. The consequences can be incalculable.
But remember, the democrats are pushing for a compromise and the republicans are not. They are pushing for a default. Not all of them, but the tea party ones are. And that is going to make them look bad, since that will very harshly harm the economy and all economists know this, that is why they are panicking.
But remember this is the fate of the Republican Party, so long as they don't unanimously come to a compromise with the democrats, but that will also harm them, since it will make the President look strong in getting Republicans who held such a firm stance in not making any compromise to ultimately make one. I mean it will also hurt him in isolating the far left, who will probably vote green during the 2012 election. But the right to left (non extreme on either end) will vote for Obama.
But this is a much less substantial win than having the Republicans continue to decline on making a compromise and a default happens, which people will blame Republicans for and elect Democrats to replace all their available seats with. Which will allow much more Socialist programs to pass, which will save the economy for a huge depression and since this would be the second time such Keynesian Economics was proven successful, it will destroy all negative views towards socialism.
But of course that is one outlook of it, if things just go as they do, especially under a non-government intervention perspective.
Now if the government does intervene like it should under a Democrat for a President, then you would see the economy default, but increase socialization will prevent further deterioration as the natural event of the market can only be averted by an outside actor, aka government/socialist act. You will end up seeing socialism saving the world economy and as a result
people are going to turn so much more strongly towards socialism than ever before. I wouldn't call it a NWO order either nor would I call it an event of hyper totalitarian rule. Instead, since socialism goes hand and hand with democracy, since democracy implies public ownership of the government and thus socialism (public ownership of the means of goods) also implies democratic ownership of the market. You don't quite understand socialism until you've actually study it and not social-phobia.
If US defaults it is going to lead to global calamity. This is difficult for Americans to know, even though they should know, because America is the center of world economics. We are the richest country and the most involved with the highest impact in world economics. The end trigger will be even worse. It is the same as what trigger the great depression, but in reverse with the same outcome. US defaults, this breaks the trust foreign countries have, which then makes them pull out their stocks.
Say Saudi Princes and British Bankers are the ones to do this. Because they pull out their stocks our companies begin to compensate, because this ultimately affects out much profit they can make and they have to make cuts on employment in order to compensate for the loss, because the objective of a business is to achieve profits, not employment. Unfortunately, more unemployment will disrupt social security, which will cause an even bigger default and thus more unemployment.
The cycle will ultimately lead to a shut down in the stock market, which will lead to the final blow that will crush our economy beyond the breaking point. Without affective governance due to a lack of funds, this will lead to massive chaos and soaring crime rates. Ultimately, it is not good, especially when you look at in a global perspective as there is no measure to prevent former soviet nukes or even an American stockpile from getting in the hands of an Iranian or Venezuelan agent.
This will lead to a rise in totalitarian rule like you have never seen before and you won't like it.
Especially, since the United States will disintegrate and as nuclear weapons fall into the hands of Iran and Venezuela, you will see an end to democracy and the beginnings of a totalitarian globalization. I wouldn't call it a NWO order, unless there an agency or organization behind the Tea Party and their ideas that has been pushing for the dissolving of the United States.
i am sorry to say that u don't fully understand the consequences of US default on the global financial system. The present system is all about confidence if u lose confidence all things falls apart. there will be chaos and panic all over the world
Well lets start off with how the global market system works and how the great depression had occurred. The Great Depression had occurred because America just after the stock market crash had began utilizing a strict protectionist ploy which all other countries responded by doing the same thing. No international trade interactions took place and as a result all companies had to make harsh cuts if not fall into default and dissolve. That is why so many people (1/3rd of U.S. population) unemployed
In today's economy, almost all super massive companies like BP, Exon-Mobile, AIG, Sony, Honda, and numerous other industries or firms also hold stocks not just in other businesses but also in the United States government. If the United States government defaults, all those companies (thousands worldwide) will pull out their stocks and investments. Some of those investments are also tied to U.S. contractors. And when they pull out of those businesses, huge unemployment will take place.
You would think that would be the end of it, but all those same firms are interconnected with other firms, this is because other businesses own stocks in them. So they are going to pull their assets out in the anticipation of shortcomings due to the fact those companies as I had said before will have to lay of workers by huge numbers to compensate for the lack of international interest being drawn to them. But that is not all. You also have the effect this will have on banks too.
I think the best way to explain it is to understand it in how we already understand the market. One giant web. Everything is interconnected, because everyone shares stocks with another and through banks, which will dissolve too if they fall short on their revenue. The best means to harm a web is to attack where the web is held most strongly and that is the United States government and its huge debt, which actually serves a financial importance with markets in China.
Defaulting on our debt won't just hurt their markets, but ours too. Simply because it is not judge our debt we are defaulting on, but also our paid revenue to all or most government programs, which hold their own revenue in the stock system and other companies their own stocks in those programs. So if the United States does default you end up all all those companies making compensations for their losses when the United States defaults, which will be a lot of our own getting unemployed.
Then you also as I had said have other companies make cuts, because that is what happens when you have a sudden lost of revenues, which is what happens when you invest money of your own into another company or into the United States government as well as companies who hold their own money into the United States government and that when it defaults, you lose all of that money. Because it is no different than when a business defaults. And with everyone invested in each other, global catastrophe.
Oli, if you want to know why the government default is a bad thing, you first have to understand our economic and market system and just how businesses function with their investments and how those investments affect them.
1) All companies are invested in one another. The bigger the investments and the more interconnected those investments are, the bigger the losses are if all the threshold of those investment (at where they stand and come to) defaults.
Microsoft has stocks in the United States Government. A lot of stocks. Billions of dollars worth in stocks. If the government defaults. It loses those investments. It has to make HUGE cuts. In the net worth of how much money it has lost. But... McDonalds, Toyota, NewsCorp, and Cox holds huge stocks in Microsoft. So they lose their assets, because Microsoft has to make cuts to compensate for its loses. But this continues, because other companies hold assets with those companies and so on.
With further unemployment, there will be less people able to afford to buy new cars, houses, ect... which will harm the housing market as well as car dealerships and ect and they have to make cuts.
As you can see this is a domino effect. One Business will affect another and another, because they all hold stock in each other. And with each business being affected it will have to lay off more and more people. Massive unemployment has its own huge negative consequence, because...
With huge unemployment means as I had said, cuts in the purchases on certain goods, especially renewable goods, because people will try to save or reuse and keep their old goods rather than buy new ones. No new cars will be bought. No new TVs. No new computers. No new house purchases. Business won't try to make new investments, which will hurt businesses like contracting firms that build houses or buildings. So you have even more unemployment.
Unemployment leads to more unemployment. What would resolve it is a new market interest, but there isn't one, because businesses are solely fix on trying to save what little assets they do have, which won't be able to the save. And what makes this the same or worse than the great depression is the fact that it will be global, because of the global integration of businesses.
The ultimate conclusion of no-government economics during such a catastrophe is an absolute end to the market system.
But lets go back to reality, so I can explain what will happen over what is going to happen. As in how the market will end on its own vs. how socialist Obama will prevent such a fall and thus end any further bickering against socialism. This is the goal of the Democratic Party and what Republicans stupidly walk themselves into.
It is the Republicans own fault for being so stupid. In a two-party system, when one party moves from the left or the right to the other side and the other doesn't...
follow the same trend and instead just pulls further to one side, it is doomed for failure and its own demise.
The Whig party ultimately died because it had this huge left swing entity called Abolitionism, which ultimately prevented it from making a working compromise with the Pro-Slavery Dems. Even though the Dems also had stubborn far right people, like Calhoun. It was during its time, a centrist party. This destroyed the Whig Party, but allowed a new left-center party, Republicans to emerge
What you are going to see is a complete end to the Tea Party, Libertarianism, Anti-Socialists, and the Republican Party. That is unless, the Republicans actually do come to an agreement with Obama on raising the debt ceiling, but that is not going to happen. Because the Reps don't want Obama to win a second term, which is what it will cost them in making any agreement with Obama. Even though that also means they won't die off, when the alternative is their extinction.
They could try to kill Obama, but all Independents and Swing-voters will know it was Republican doing even if it was just set up as some fringe idiot and all intentions of calling it a conspiracy is thrown out the window, just due to the anti-conspiracy nature we have put ourselves upon. It is still going to be felt that way as a betrayal and no one will vote for a Republican. Especially, since Republicans won't be able to put in themselves to not be seen as the bad guys if Obama does die.
So as I had said, Oli. It is a grim outlook for the Republican Party and the Tea Party and there is nothing they can do about it.
Fail to beat him in a second term or die off forever and fail to beat him in a second term or they can try to kill him and still die off and fail to beat Biden, who will end up being more socialist than Obama
The only other alternative I can conceive of is that Obama becomes the one unwilling to make a compromise, but that will never happen. Because he is a dem.
Businesses like Microsoft and BP hire assassins to kill off the Republican or the Republican Tea Party Candidates, thus kill the Tea Party with possibly the Koch Brothers, and then allow the Dems to raise the debt ceiling to allow their companies to continue living.
That or the Republicans will fake their own assassinations, so that they can blame it on the Dems while the Dems raise the debt ceiling. However... that will probably fail.
It will fail, because they need to blackmail or pay off the entire FBI and many other agencies including U.S. Marshals and I doubt they will succeed at that. So... it will backfire and they will still suffer hugely.
There is no true good way the Republicans can get out of this, but they had themselves to blame for it. They should have went left of center when the Dems decided to go right of center, just like the two parties decided to do in the 60s when it came to civil rights.
Now, Oli, I hope you have read all my other comments before reading this one. And I apologize for loading this up with all of what I had to say, but I had a lot to say to explain the system to you and the outfall it will have.
Here is my personal take on fixing any other problems we have, look at what the dems have or ask a dem what their proposal is and hope you can find alternatives among them and pick the best one you can agree with, because that is all you will have when this is done with.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Ultimately, there is going to be a default, unless all the markets aim at hiring assassins to kill all the tea party republicans. And trust they will try to since a default will mean catastrophe to any business. But nonetheless, Barack Obama's goal is to destroy the Republican Party and the best means to accomplish that without derailing the democratic system which ingenious might I mind you is to continue pushing the Republican Party to the right and isolating them from swing voters.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
So what Obama is going to do is continue to appeal to the right, by moving more to the right. People to the left or center would continue to vote for him or democrats, because that is the only true alternative to a more extreme rightest party that will end up be the fate of the Republicans. But the most beautiful part is that as Barack Obama continues to try and compromise with Republicans, it will make Republicans look like the bad guys, because they are the ones pushing for a default.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
And as I had said, default is a bad thing, much worse when you in our position. We are not too big to fail. We are too big that we shouldn't fail. The consequences can be incalculable.
But remember, the democrats are pushing for a compromise and the republicans are not. They are pushing for a default. Not all of them, but the tea party ones are. And that is going to make them look bad, since that will very harshly harm the economy and all economists know this, that is why they are panicking.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
But remember this is the fate of the Republican Party, so long as they don't unanimously come to a compromise with the democrats, but that will also harm them, since it will make the President look strong in getting Republicans who held such a firm stance in not making any compromise to ultimately make one. I mean it will also hurt him in isolating the far left, who will probably vote green during the 2012 election. But the right to left (non extreme on either end) will vote for Obama.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
But this is a much less substantial win than having the Republicans continue to decline on making a compromise and a default happens, which people will blame Republicans for and elect Democrats to replace all their available seats with. Which will allow much more Socialist programs to pass, which will save the economy for a huge depression and since this would be the second time such Keynesian Economics was proven successful, it will destroy all negative views towards socialism.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
But of course that is one outlook of it, if things just go as they do, especially under a non-government intervention perspective.
Now if the government does intervene like it should under a Democrat for a President, then you would see the economy default, but increase socialization will prevent further deterioration as the natural event of the market can only be averted by an outside actor, aka government/socialist act. You will end up seeing socialism saving the world economy and as a result
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
people are going to turn so much more strongly towards socialism than ever before. I wouldn't call it a NWO order either nor would I call it an event of hyper totalitarian rule. Instead, since socialism goes hand and hand with democracy, since democracy implies public ownership of the government and thus socialism (public ownership of the means of goods) also implies democratic ownership of the market. You don't quite understand socialism until you've actually study it and not social-phobia.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
If US defaults it is going to lead to global calamity. This is difficult for Americans to know, even though they should know, because America is the center of world economics. We are the richest country and the most involved with the highest impact in world economics. The end trigger will be even worse. It is the same as what trigger the great depression, but in reverse with the same outcome. US defaults, this breaks the trust foreign countries have, which then makes them pull out their stocks.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Say Saudi Princes and British Bankers are the ones to do this. Because they pull out their stocks our companies begin to compensate, because this ultimately affects out much profit they can make and they have to make cuts on employment in order to compensate for the loss, because the objective of a business is to achieve profits, not employment. Unfortunately, more unemployment will disrupt social security, which will cause an even bigger default and thus more unemployment.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
The cycle will ultimately lead to a shut down in the stock market, which will lead to the final blow that will crush our economy beyond the breaking point. Without affective governance due to a lack of funds, this will lead to massive chaos and soaring crime rates. Ultimately, it is not good, especially when you look at in a global perspective as there is no measure to prevent former soviet nukes or even an American stockpile from getting in the hands of an Iranian or Venezuelan agent.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
This will lead to a rise in totalitarian rule like you have never seen before and you won't like it.
Especially, since the United States will disintegrate and as nuclear weapons fall into the hands of Iran and Venezuela, you will see an end to democracy and the beginnings of a totalitarian globalization. I wouldn't call it a NWO order, unless there an agency or organization behind the Tea Party and their ideas that has been pushing for the dissolving of the United States.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
They will just raise the limit and bring in another QE...
weslake898 7 months ago
i am sorry to say that u don't fully understand the consequences of US default on the global financial system. The present system is all about confidence if u lose confidence all things falls apart. there will be chaos and panic all over the world
Propcuser 7 months ago
@Propcuser ok well then explain it to me
oli36999 7 months ago
Well lets start off with how the global market system works and how the great depression had occurred. The Great Depression had occurred because America just after the stock market crash had began utilizing a strict protectionist ploy which all other countries responded by doing the same thing. No international trade interactions took place and as a result all companies had to make harsh cuts if not fall into default and dissolve. That is why so many people (1/3rd of U.S. population) unemployed
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
In today's economy, almost all super massive companies like BP, Exon-Mobile, AIG, Sony, Honda, and numerous other industries or firms also hold stocks not just in other businesses but also in the United States government. If the United States government defaults, all those companies (thousands worldwide) will pull out their stocks and investments. Some of those investments are also tied to U.S. contractors. And when they pull out of those businesses, huge unemployment will take place.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
You would think that would be the end of it, but all those same firms are interconnected with other firms, this is because other businesses own stocks in them. So they are going to pull their assets out in the anticipation of shortcomings due to the fact those companies as I had said before will have to lay of workers by huge numbers to compensate for the lack of international interest being drawn to them. But that is not all. You also have the effect this will have on banks too.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
I think the best way to explain it is to understand it in how we already understand the market. One giant web. Everything is interconnected, because everyone shares stocks with another and through banks, which will dissolve too if they fall short on their revenue. The best means to harm a web is to attack where the web is held most strongly and that is the United States government and its huge debt, which actually serves a financial importance with markets in China.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Defaulting on our debt won't just hurt their markets, but ours too. Simply because it is not judge our debt we are defaulting on, but also our paid revenue to all or most government programs, which hold their own revenue in the stock system and other companies their own stocks in those programs. So if the United States does default you end up all all those companies making compensations for their losses when the United States defaults, which will be a lot of our own getting unemployed.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Then you also as I had said have other companies make cuts, because that is what happens when you have a sudden lost of revenues, which is what happens when you invest money of your own into another company or into the United States government as well as companies who hold their own money into the United States government and that when it defaults, you lose all of that money. Because it is no different than when a business defaults. And with everyone invested in each other, global catastrophe.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Oli, if you want to know why the government default is a bad thing, you first have to understand our economic and market system and just how businesses function with their investments and how those investments affect them.
1) All companies are invested in one another. The bigger the investments and the more interconnected those investments are, the bigger the losses are if all the threshold of those investment (at where they stand and come to) defaults.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Microsoft has stocks in the United States Government. A lot of stocks. Billions of dollars worth in stocks. If the government defaults. It loses those investments. It has to make HUGE cuts. In the net worth of how much money it has lost. But... McDonalds, Toyota, NewsCorp, and Cox holds huge stocks in Microsoft. So they lose their assets, because Microsoft has to make cuts to compensate for its loses. But this continues, because other companies hold assets with those companies and so on.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
With further unemployment, there will be less people able to afford to buy new cars, houses, ect... which will harm the housing market as well as car dealerships and ect and they have to make cuts.
As you can see this is a domino effect. One Business will affect another and another, because they all hold stock in each other. And with each business being affected it will have to lay off more and more people. Massive unemployment has its own huge negative consequence, because...
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
With huge unemployment means as I had said, cuts in the purchases on certain goods, especially renewable goods, because people will try to save or reuse and keep their old goods rather than buy new ones. No new cars will be bought. No new TVs. No new computers. No new house purchases. Business won't try to make new investments, which will hurt businesses like contracting firms that build houses or buildings. So you have even more unemployment.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Unemployment leads to more unemployment. What would resolve it is a new market interest, but there isn't one, because businesses are solely fix on trying to save what little assets they do have, which won't be able to the save. And what makes this the same or worse than the great depression is the fact that it will be global, because of the global integration of businesses.
The ultimate conclusion of no-government economics during such a catastrophe is an absolute end to the market system.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
But lets go back to reality, so I can explain what will happen over what is going to happen. As in how the market will end on its own vs. how socialist Obama will prevent such a fall and thus end any further bickering against socialism. This is the goal of the Democratic Party and what Republicans stupidly walk themselves into.
It is the Republicans own fault for being so stupid. In a two-party system, when one party moves from the left or the right to the other side and the other doesn't...
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
follow the same trend and instead just pulls further to one side, it is doomed for failure and its own demise.
The Whig party ultimately died because it had this huge left swing entity called Abolitionism, which ultimately prevented it from making a working compromise with the Pro-Slavery Dems. Even though the Dems also had stubborn far right people, like Calhoun. It was during its time, a centrist party. This destroyed the Whig Party, but allowed a new left-center party, Republicans to emerge
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
What you are going to see is a complete end to the Tea Party, Libertarianism, Anti-Socialists, and the Republican Party. That is unless, the Republicans actually do come to an agreement with Obama on raising the debt ceiling, but that is not going to happen. Because the Reps don't want Obama to win a second term, which is what it will cost them in making any agreement with Obama. Even though that also means they won't die off, when the alternative is their extinction.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
They could try to kill Obama, but all Independents and Swing-voters will know it was Republican doing even if it was just set up as some fringe idiot and all intentions of calling it a conspiracy is thrown out the window, just due to the anti-conspiracy nature we have put ourselves upon. It is still going to be felt that way as a betrayal and no one will vote for a Republican. Especially, since Republicans won't be able to put in themselves to not be seen as the bad guys if Obama does die.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
So as I had said, Oli. It is a grim outlook for the Republican Party and the Tea Party and there is nothing they can do about it.
Fail to beat him in a second term or die off forever and fail to beat him in a second term or they can try to kill him and still die off and fail to beat Biden, who will end up being more socialist than Obama
The only other alternative I can conceive of is that Obama becomes the one unwilling to make a compromise, but that will never happen. Because he is a dem.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
Well actually there are two other alternatives.
Businesses like Microsoft and BP hire assassins to kill off the Republican or the Republican Tea Party Candidates, thus kill the Tea Party with possibly the Koch Brothers, and then allow the Dems to raise the debt ceiling to allow their companies to continue living.
That or the Republicans will fake their own assassinations, so that they can blame it on the Dems while the Dems raise the debt ceiling. However... that will probably fail.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
It will fail, because they need to blackmail or pay off the entire FBI and many other agencies including U.S. Marshals and I doubt they will succeed at that. So... it will backfire and they will still suffer hugely.
There is no true good way the Republicans can get out of this, but they had themselves to blame for it. They should have went left of center when the Dems decided to go right of center, just like the two parties decided to do in the 60s when it came to civil rights.
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago
@Propcuser i fully agree.
MrBat000 7 months ago
Comment removed
SmartGuy4today 7 months ago