Norton & Frazier were made for Foreman. He could have fought them both 20 times and hammered them every single time. All he had to do is clip Norton and it was all over, Norton wasn't made to handle half of Foreman's power.
right uppercut, right cross, left hook to end norton might be the most devastating combos I can ever remember in a 3 punch sequence, just unbelievable power and fury---then he crowds norton within 12-16 inches with a look of I will kill you!
First i said Nice agreeing with your observation of teh fight for the most part.
Then with regards to him being a fearsome foe, I said yes this is why he also ended up being a very old, in fact the oldest heavyweight champion, but then his personality was much less fearsome because Ali had beaten teh niceness in him, lolz.
So overall i as validating and also making a joke to what would happen to Foreman later on with regards to him being fearsome, lolz. So yea.
LOL aNd to use alis own words here, he said aint no george foreman gonna destroy norton cause I couldnt do it in 24 rds, this after the 1st rd! LOL relax mo, in about 60 seconds he knocked him down and out 3 fuckin times LOL on the way to queersville LOL. No comment from the dumbass ali after that KO
lol ali looks SOOOOO stupid being proud of norton who he teumpets going 24 rds with him, well get this punk, it took foreman 1.5 rds to do what you ali COULD NOT do. LMAO.
@Robstailey hahahah funny stuff man but that is Muhammad Alis own opinion. The World, the sport personality chose him as the greatest fighter of all times. Why didnt they choose sugar ray robinson then? why muhammad ali?? BECAUSE HE IS THE GREATEST HE WON 3 TIMES THE BELT AND KNOCKED OUT GEORGE FOREMANS ASS ! ALI WAS A PURE ENTERTAINER AND AWSOME BOXER! NOONE CAN TAKE HIS PLACE MAN YOU GUYS AINT SHIT
@oguzcan3412 his career record was 56-5 with 37 kos- foreman was 78 and 5 with 68 KNOCKOUTS. He clearly was the fightgames master at kos and quick endings to fight. It matters little what you or I say, but the bottom line is foreman beat the shit out of the same guys ali had tremendous trouble with, he basically got his ass kicked by norton in what was tough fights for ali, of course frazier beat him and probably beat him twice if you ask me. Foreman proved he just devastated guys.
@oguzcan3412 due to his huge personality and salesmanship is why he has the greatest rep, truth is he was a boring jab and move fighter, give me tough fighters, bot dancers and movers0 ali was good, but not the greatest at all.
true, and it's pretty well known ali never really got the best of norton. the first fight was the only really decisive one of the three, the second and third were dubious, questionable decisions at best.
@SuperGonggong there is no hare bro, just being honest, besides, in reality the way ali treated frazier and others why you bowing down to him? meaning since he was so disrespectful to excellence, and made money as a BS artist, who cares if some thought he was dramatically overrated, he is a man who lost 5official fights, but was in about another 6-7 hotly contested decisions. I simply thought a lot of his fights were him using his speed to hab and move, not very exciting.
@jabb69 the man was a mentally fit, he was so smart, take it from g foreman, he was a genius, and he had great respect for his opponents, its about strategy, he threw em off their game and it works all the time, but my all time great was roy jones jr, i mean he didnt have many defining fights, but skillwise i think hes the best, just my opinion but a bud of mine knew for a small heavy like him he did alright, and shit he defeated george, but years after he even became friends, its strategy.
@SuperGonggong look its not I like I said he is terrible, I just dont get anywhere near the whole mantra---self dubbed BTW, the greatest of all time----he was GREAT in footwork, speed, and yes pschology, although he was brutal to frazier and I do hold it against him, he was downright racist to a man that had more integrity in his pinky then ali had in his whole body, and I am not a black man. PS bob sheridan is calling the fight, he has called 800 of em , his comments in here are awsome.
@jabb69 ali a racist? remember why he chucked that medal into a river over racism? as i said i think roys the greatest but its all opinion based, i would put ali over almost everyone. his reflexes were great and he had a good chin, he was no slouch.
@SuperGonggong of course, do you know what he said and did to frazier before, during, and after? Name after name after name, humiliated him with derogatory name calling the SOB, who the hell does he think he is? he didn't dominate frazier, the man behaved like a moron....his sad condition today is karma, frazier was somewhat healthy until he passed, heard him many times long after he retired, foreman is more a success story, humble funny, AND WAY MORE fun to watch fight, ali cant recall ur name
@jabb69 can u pm me? i hate digging thru comments, as for karma, many fighters have and will develop this, foreman even said you can overwelcome your stay and pay dearly for it, but at least ali didnt spend the rest of his life thinking about what if I... foreman is a fun fighter, i cant deny that, but ali could excite fans as well. ex ali shuffle, rjj might turn into a shell if he keeps fighting like this, but ill never look at him differently hes still a gifted fighter. and always will be.....
@jabb69 - There was a documentary, shown in Britain, about the Thrilla in Manila and it noted that Ali had met with the KKK before heading out to the far east. Ali's views on race were, in fact, identical to those of the KKK. Ali was a great fighter but a nasty human being while poor old Joe Frazier was in his shadow.
I've also seen Ali launch into a racist rant on David Frost's chat show so he had plenty of form for it.
@BruceinFalkirk yea, you dont behave the way he did just to sell a few more tickets as his fans claim, he was mean and meant it, the dope prolly wanted to be just a tad lighter then his light brown ( not black ) showed. Im sick of the holier then thou crowd that is like a cult, like frazier said, " he could have fallen into the flames at the Olympics for all he cared. You can make mistakes, and we forgive, but ali from were I sit never made amends for his nastiness, and so the hell with him
what a idiot ali sounds like, I mean u r supposed to analyze the fight not sit in nortons corner and root him on- fuck ali- him and his BS calling frazier a gorrilla- fuck him, foreman fucked em all up and ali would have been fucked in a rematch
@carmodifire SURE thing old timer, shavers was tough but not in foremans class, did shavers beat frazier and knock down the champ 6 times in a rnd and a half, frazier said it the best, george hits harder then anyone on the planet. Period
¡Impresionante! Foreman, tenía un estilo muy semejante al de Carlos Monzón: se movía lento en el ring, parecía que anunciaba sus golpes... lo que hacía era simplemente acomodar con la izquierda y definir con la derecha...¡¡¡pero cuándo esos golpes llegaban de lleno eran los más fuertes de la historia del boxeo!!! ¡GENIO GEORGE!
Boy, Foreman was a monster. He made Norton look and fight like an amateur welterweight. Just crushed him. When you consider how much trouble Norton and Frazier gave Ali and Holmes (Norton anyway), you start to understand just how strong this dude was.
@tlig You're right. Norton gave Ali hell for 24 rounds, then Foreman devastated Norton in 2 rounds. Then Ali overwhelmed Foreman; that's a pure miracle what Ali did to Foreman.
KEN NORTON WAS A GOOD FIGHTER, BUT HIS CHIN WAS ALWAYS SUSPECT. EVERY TIME HE FACED A BIG PUNCHER IT WAS LIGHTS OUT. FOREMAN WAS AS BIG A PUNCHER AS THERE WAS. HE HAD NO CHANCE IN THIS FIGHT.NORTON FOUGHT GREAT AGAINST ALI AND HOLMES BUT THOSE GUYS WERE MASTER BOXERS.
@AliYourBrother was a good thing to say back in those days, these days he would be asked to leave his job. Thats how America is right now, sadly. Bunch of sissys who get offended out of anything.
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instead of pawing--which leaves u open & encourages an aggressive fighter to keep coming--Norton should have been throwing stiff, head snapping jabs from the very beginning but he was busy feeling out Foreman, while George was going for the ko from the start. strategy should've been establish the jab early and work ur combinations off of it, keep ur back off the ropes, move to Foreman's left, throw the lead right hand -- and DONT FORGET TO DUCK!!
@rockpig63 im no expert but i think your right.when you consider how long holmes and forman fought.Larry seemed in better shape during 1 of his comebacks than when he fought tyson and spinks.also as ya no these guyS were fighting 15 rounds?shit.As far as comparing tyson,holyfield,lennox, who knows??i wish i could see all the greats square off in there total prime including JOE LEWIS.DEMPSEY ETC...The only fighter i ever saw foreman say he wouldnt fight is lennox lewis in his prime over rudduck.
@lynnethc Not sure about what you just said. I thought for years that Tyson was overrated but now I'm not so sure. Tyson was almost as powerful as Foreman but was faster and threw a lot of combos when he was in his prime. Later on he just didn't throw many combinations, always trying to take someone's head off with one punch. It would be so awesome to be God and have young Tyson and young Foreman fight! What would be your dream match?
@terrtj this is leo ( using wifes youtube as lynnethc) i think all the really good fighters from 70s wouldve beat tyson cuz they had more heart, tyson didnt seem to have the guts to fight past 6 rounds...foreman gave holyfield a really tough fight at age 42 and tyson did not do shit either time vs holyfield at age 30...i wouldve loved to have seen foreman and tyson square off at age 25, my money is on GF...thrilla in manila was incredible in that they went 14 rds in 100 degree heat past age 30
I'll bet 100% of the people on this board who think Marciano was in the top 2 all-time are white guys. If Cooney had ever won the title, even for a minute, he'd be in their top 2 or 3 too. Ditto any other white fighter.
If Marciano had been black, he'd get almost no votes for top spot all-time. His race serves as a kind of affirmative action card for white fans in a sport that is frankly dominated by African-Americans.
@Pizuzuzimmer You are totally right, IMHO man. And, for the record, I'm white and European. For me, the best 3 heavyweights in all history are Ali, Frazier, Foreman, followed by Louis, Holyfield and - now - Marciano. He ranks 6th for me. He was a great brawler but lacked ellegance.
BestBoxingGame is correct! People like Marciano, who managed their careers in the ring to perfection, will always be attacked by those wanting to elevate lesser boxers. What is inarguable however is that Joe Louis was the greatest, NOT Ali. Marciano would rank as No. 2. It's a shame that Foreman blew his career after Zaire. He would have killed Ali in a rematch. Ali couldn't dominate Frazier, got whipped by Norton, a total pretender, and got whipped by little Leon Spinks.
@epspivey I hear what you're saying, and agree on Joe Louis, but I don't consider Norton a pretender, and doubt Foreman would have killed Ali in a rematch. I will grant you this though, there's no way he would have fallen for the rope-a-dope again! A rematch would have looked more like the Thrilla in Manilla, or Ali-Lyle or Ali-Norton III. Though George may indeed have beat him.
@zenmachinefilms Thanks for your rational comments. You at least have made balanced comments. I think the other people on this board are part of the "cult of Cassius Clay." They are completely irrational. If Ali were the greatest, he would have dominated his era. He did NOT!! People for some reason (perhaps out of wholesomeness) are unwilling to consider that perhaps the Liston bouts weren't altogether above board. Many experts--and I'm not talking Howard Cosell--considered the fight a fake.
You miss the contextual point, not to mention, as someone else already pointed out, that you seemingly forget that Ali was stripped of his title during prime years--if he'd not had the draft issue, he'd have been champ at least from '64 to the Frazier loss in '71. And the fact that the heavy weight division was MUCH more loaded with talent in this period than it was when Marciano or Louis were fighting is a key you do not acknowledge.
@zenmachinefilms Ali was a great fighter, no doubt about it. And I think he represented the U.S. with honor at the Rome games of 1960 when he talked down the Russian reporter. I have great respect for Ali, but I do not drop into irrational hagiography about his career. He was great, but not the greatest. Anyone watching Joe Lous' bouts cannot but be in awe of this magnificent fighter with a thunderous punch. He WAS the greatest, and he didn't have to shout out about it.
Nonsense. Louis and Marciano fought mostly bum, third-rate fighters during their careers. The heavyweight division was never more loaded with quality, scary fighters than during the late '60s through the mid to late '70s--the four or five dominant fighters in that era (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Larry Holmes) would all beat either Louis or Marciano. And, moving closer to today, I'd bet my house on the young Tyson against either of them too.
You're clearly just an Ali hater. Spinks beat him when he was OLD. Just like when Ezzard Charles beat up an old Louis. And it is beyond laughable to dismiss Norton in this way. The man was a far more quality fighter than 90% of the bums Marciano and Louis fought in their careers.
Foreman's punching power is overrated. He's no Shavers or Marciano. Those guys could knock out guys with one punch, Foreman never could. He was very heavy handed though, and it's like nothing could stop the momentum of his shots.
I agree with Prime, he wasn't a great boxer at all. He makes mistake after mistake. Against Ali, and Young, they were exposed. Not all fighters expose mistakes, but sooner or later, someone does.
@messier991102 Based on what? Foreman was stronger, no doubt, based on his size, but he needed quite a few shots to knock guys out. Marciano had more one punch power, and often knocked guys out.
Everyone who faced Marciano complained bitterly about him hitting them ANYWHERE. He broke a guys arms. Guys couldn't keep their arms up. Common guys said he hit a lot harder than Louis.
Foreman had heavy hands, but unless he landed a lot of shots, guys weren't going down in most cases.
@TA152H01 based on what? he lifted guys off the canvas, and tossed frazir around like it was nothing, you cant honestly tell me that marciano can beat frazier like foreman, marciano imo would lose to frazier and foreman would kill him. also dempsey and louis said foreman was the hardest hitter they have seen. and alot or rockys kos were from the tiring of his oppo, most of foremans kos are within 4 rounds. once again please dont tell me you think rocky can beat foreman, or kill frazier
@messier991102 Well, I guess you know more than Ali and Frazier, who both said Marciano was better than Frazier. Obviously, he was. He obviously hit harder than Foreman too. Look at how many punches it takes for him to knock Norton down, and finally to knock him out. If Marciano hit him one time cleanly, he'd be down, if not out. It wouldn't take 15 shots.
Every guy that fought Marciano said he hit obscenely hard, and often. Louis said he hurt even when you bumped into him.
@TA152H01 lol how is he obviously better than frazier. joe was faster,harder to hit,more aggressive more relentless and put on faster pressure and set a faster pace. all marciano has over joe is tthe right hand. joe is also the better bodypuncher.
@messier991102 Well, Frazier wasn't harder to hit, didn't have nearly the punch, wasn't more aggressive (they were both) and didn't set nearly the pace. Marciano not only hit a lot harder, he had better endurance. He also had a much better chin.
Ali said Marciano was better, you think you know more? Even Frazier admitted it. They asked him if Louis and Marciano would beat Ali (he rated them one and two on his all time list of HW). He said yes, if I could, they could.
@TA152H01 how was frazier not harder to hit, he has the highest duck slip ratio of any other heavyweight. lol frazier not nearly the punch. frazier versed muuch better competition and they had much better chins and he still ko'd them. have you even watched frazier fight he fought at a much faster pace and closed the gap much quicker, marciano is slower than frazier in every way possible. what makes you think he had more endurance and a better chin
@TA152H01 frazier was busier and fought faster and was always in motion. bert sugar said frazier was the most aggressive eavyweight and most relentless. what makes you think marciano set a faser pace. watch them side by side and joe was much more impressive. and chin. marciano was kd by an old ass archie moore. he never vered a fighter than hit as hard as frazier let alone foreman. who hit much harder than marciano,so did liston,and louis and tyson and shavers. frazier hits just as hard
@TA152H01 frazier was in his 12 th pro fight when bonavena floored him. what bum was marciano fighting in his 12th fight. what about walcott was that a flash kd. ali hit ffrazier with so many punches and feather fist? the man has 37 kos. foreman is THE HARDEST HITTER OF ALL TIME. they rate marciano higher out of respect. frazier had an interview recently saying he would have beaten marciano and tyson. he said rocky was too slow and tyson gassed to fast. once again foreman would KILL marciano
@messier991102 Ali had no punch at all, even he said so. Marciano got right up from Walcott as well. Right up, and then went on the attack. Same with Moore. Frazier got ass-raped by Foreman, blown out by Ali, who had the punching power of a middleweight (not a hard punching middleweight at that), and badly knocked down by Bonavena.
Ali said Marciano was better than Frazier. He'd know. You wouldn't.
Foreman the hardest hitter of all time? LOL! No one thinks so, well no one over 12.
@TA152H01 ali had no punch once again 37 ko's. frazier got up eveytime against foreman as well. marciano would have gotten murdered by foreman also. LOL blown out by ali. frazier would have went through marcianos opponents like water. alright fine the only fighters who hit harder or ont the same level were liston and shavers. all three hit much harder than marciano,the most overrrated champion of all time
@messier991102 Again, it's always interesting to see some clown think he knows more than a real boxer like Ali. Ali said Marciano was better than Frazier? Who are you? No one. A nothing. Yet you know more than Ali, who actually got hit by a young Frazier, and a 45 year old Marciano. Did you know more than Joe Louis, who said Marciano could have fought anyone? Or Jack Dempsey, who said he considered him the hardest hitting heavyweight?
@TA152H01 ali also said tyson could ko him in one punch, is that true? of course not. umm no dempsey considered foreman the hardest hitting HW. faace it. frazier has all of marcianos intagibles. everything that makes rocky rocky,frazier has. and he is faster,applies more pressure and is harder to hit,not to mention he is more aggressive and fought better competition.
@messier991102 Frazier didn't beat better competition at all. Who did he beat? Ali once. That's pretty much his resume.
Marciano beat Charles (in his prime), Walcott (late 30s, but according to Louis, in his prime), Moore (also still champ), and Joe Louis. Joe was past his prime, but still favored to win. He also beat decent fighters like LaStarza. And here's the thing, he always won.
Marciano had more power, much better chin, better defense, better stamina, better defense.
@TA152H01 really i think its pretty well known frazier beat better comp than rocky and that rocky fought in the weakest era of HWs. power no,frazier beat oppo with better chins than old walcott. LOL better chin proof. had they fought frazier would be the hardest hitter marciano versed, and foreman would blow rocky out of the water. better defense, LOL frazier had the highest duck slip ratio of any other HW and made his oppo miss way more punches than rocky did. better stamina
@TA152H01 why is frazier two steps below because he didnt go undefeated? which hadd he fought in marcianos era he would have. like i said watch them side by side,and if you think marciano is more impressive,your an ignorant fool. lol quarry a bum,better than anybody rocky fought. no defense right, ok so how come he has the highest duck slip ratio of anyother heavy. ignoraing that fact. ali actually said dumbass that frazier was hard to hit,watch how many punches ali mmissed on frazier
@TA152H01 if frazier fought in marcianos era he would make short work of all his opponents. he would have gone undefeated also. ali would,foreman would,tyson would,liston would.
@TA152H01 ali also said joe was the 2nd greastest fighter (after him) after there 3rd fight. alis right, when he threw it hard has some power. but he was speed based. didnt need so much power.
@evol121 Ali said that after many fights, about many fighters.
Let's be real, Ali/Frazier III was a fight between two fighters that didn't belong in the top 100 at that point. Nothing either could do would make them all-time greats at that point, they were both past their prime.
Ali himself said he had no punch, so did Frazier. He probably had less punching power than any heavyweight champ ever, at least since Joe Louis. Even Patterson hit harder.
@messier991102 You're just a retarded idiot. Read, you dumb ass. By Ali/Frazier III, they were shells and were not great. Nothing Frazier did in that fight was great, he was a spent fighter, and so was Ali. By that time, neither was even a top 100 all time fighter. Ali early in his career was, of course. Frazier, probably not. Top 100 HW though, for sure.
@TA152H01 lol frazier only makes top 100 fighters. hes usually number 6 or 7 in rankings. definetly greater than marciano,nothing frazier did in that fight was great? lol thats why its considered the greatest fight of all time. ignorant cunt. your whole argument is that "ALI said marciano was better" thats it,im providing facts. do you realize the average age of marcianos oppo was 35. damn, like holmes said he is a 25 year old man fighting 35 year old men,holmes would also go undefeated in
@messier991102 You are a complete idiot. You don't speak English? Are you retarded? I keep saying, but you're too fucking stupid to understand, by the time of that fight, neither fighter was great. It's like Leonard/Hearns II, or Leonard/Hagler. Very good fights, by FORMER great fighters that no longer were. Frazier maybe one cut below great in his prime, but Ali clearly was. The point being, neither were still great fighters by Manila.
@messier991102 What video? You can have your idiotic fantasies, but the reality stands. Marciano won every fight. That's not speculation. Ali didn't, and couldn't. Frazier didn't and couldn't. I'm not speculating here. Ali was a very talented guy, but made a lot of mistakes, and lost fights because he couldn't figure out certain styles. Frazier simply wasn't as talented, and isn't really in the same category as Marciano, or Ali.
@TA152H01 watch them side by side,frazier is faster,applies harder pressure,is harder to hit and is the better inside ffighter. how do you expect them to win everyother fight fighting in the best era of HWs. frazier is much more talented than marciano. how is rocky more talented. joe has the edge on footwork/speed,handspeed,headspeed,and is the more skillful inside fighter. everything that made rocky special frazier has and more. and if joe wasnt in the same category as both fighters,
@messier991102 You probably want Frazier's hard pressure up your bung hole, god damn homo. I figured it out, you love Frazier.
Frazier had worse defense . Didn't have near the power. Didn't have near the chin. Didn't have the stamina. He surely wasn't as good an inside fighter. You don't know boxing at all, you just know Frazier butt. What makes Marciano so great is he could throw punches from anywhere, from any angle, even when off balance.
@TA152H01 no more than you love marciano. your losing an arggument so you revert to gay jokes, real mature. like i said if joe had a wrose defence he wouldnt have the highest slip ratio. if he didnt have near the power he wouldnt have 27 kos over better oppo. marcinos chin is no better than frazier, not one of his opponents hit as hard as frazier let alone foreman. marciano was a lot sloppier than frazier and missed alot more punches. foolish, how does rockys dick taste?
@messier991102 Where is his high slip ratio? Where are you getting this from?
Hypocritical complaining about gay jokes and finishing with one. Kind of makes you sound stupid in yet another way.
Are you serious? 72% is not a high knockout ratio, Rocky's was over 87%, against better opponents. Ali was Frazier's only important win. Foreman raped him. Rocky fought Charles, Walcott, Moore, Layne, LaStarza, Louis. Quarry was decent, but those got stopped cuts. Marciano's were real.
@TA152H01 its on east side boxing forum, its will take a while to find it but its there. foreman killed him yes, but marciano would also not have any chance,and all of marcianos oppo frazier would have killed also. all of rockys big win were over lhw. if ali had so little power, how did he ko moore faster than rock did? look when frazier fought a lhw,ko 2. ali vs foster ko 9. marciano vs charles ko 11? marciano didnt get hurt cus he never fought anybody that can hit. old louis? lol.
@messier991102 If Marciano hit Foreman, Foreman would wake up next week. If the fight lasted longer than two rounds, and keep in mind Marciano was never seriously hurt, Foreman would wake up next week.
Charles was HEAVYWEIGHT champion. Foster never was, was he? Moore was very, very old and very fat. Are you stupid enough to say Ali had more punching power than Marciano? LOL! You're one dumb bunny.
By the way, Ali's knockout percent 60%. Marciano's? 88%. 60% is very low.
@TA152H01 HAHAHA marciano ko foreman im done,your a dumbass. how do you expect foser to be champion with alli and frazier in the same division? im not saying ali had more power,he didnt,but he had power. atleast im not the stupid one who thinks marciano hit harder than foreman.
@messier991102 Foreman got knocked out by powder puff Ali, and knocked down by Jimmy Young. Ron Lyle, a horrible fighter, knocked Foreman silly. Not one of those guys approaches Marciano's power, yet you think Marciano couldn't knock out Foreman? Dumb. Just dumb.
If Marciano hit Norton with a clean shot, he'd go down. It wouldn't take 15. He had better one punch power.
Forget Ali and Frazier, Foster couldn't compete against HWs at all. He lost to Foley and Terrell too.
@TA152H01 Ali was not a "powder puff" puncher. He punched hard enough to knock anyone out if he landed.
He didnt beat Foreman with punching power though, but his boxing skills and accuracy. Something Marciano would not be able to do. He would go power for power with Foreman, and since Foreman is more powerfull AND a better boxer AND bigger, he would win.
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, we know that's not true, since he fought Frazier three times, and Norton three times, and couldn't seriously hurt either of those two, in 41 rounds, and 39 rounds. Neither had a great chin. Powder puff it is.
Foreman didn't have a bigger punch. Marciano knocked guys down and out with one shot, Foreman normally needed quite a few.
Foreman would hate leaning in to Marciano, and with his weaker chin, and weaker heart (early career), would struggle badly.
@TA152H01 To call Alis punches powder puff is insane. Simple as that. He was not considered a thunderous puncher, but wasnt a weak puncher either. He had enough KOs on his resume to be called a good puncher.
But like I stated before, and something that you avoid, is that he OUTBOXED Foreman, made him tired, then gutted him.
Well you have your opinion thats fine, but dont come along outrageous like "Foreman was a bum, Frazier is a bum, Ali powderpuff". I mean comeone..
@TheBestBoxingGame Foreman had no skill, never beat anyone besides Joe Frazier his first time around. He was slow, amateurish, and had no stamina. On top of that, he DIDN'T have one punch power. He score a lot of hits, or the guy didn't go down. He also had no heart until he second crusade.
He's not in the same league as Marciano or Ali. Neither is Frazier.
Ali had no power. Even Frazier said so. Even Ali admitted he didn't hit hard.
@TA152H01 Dont make Rocky Marciano out to be some kind of superman. Old man Ezzard Chales boxed circles around him but was too out of prime to win the fight. Marciano never ever faced someone of the caliber of Foreman, Ali and Frazier.
@TheBestBoxingGame Again, you're wrong. Charles was only 30 years old when he fought Marciano, and many consider that his best fight. Also, he was NOT leading the fight. For the first fight, it was very close for the first 10 rounds, 11-15 Marciano separated himself. The second fight, Marciano was ahead from the start.
He learned a lot from each fight.
Foreman was a bum, Frazier doesn't belong in a comparison with Marciano. Ali, true, but Marciano was better than any opponent of his
@TA152H01 Besides, I dont know who would win, maybe Rocky would win who knows, just the thing you base it on, like Rocky was God and the other bums. Rocky had plenty of problems against fighters not the caliber and size of Ali, Foreman,Frazier, what makes you think that he would simply ko these people like it's nothing ?
@TheBestBoxingGame I never said he'd KO them like it was nothing. Those are your words. I simply said he's in a different league than Frazier and Foreman.
Marciano, like all heavyweights, had flaws, but he was unusual in that he hit extremely hard, and had the best stamina of any heavyweight. It's a good combination. He'd be hard to beat in any 15 round fight. 12 rounders would hurt him, which is why he'd be less effective today.
@TA152H01 I think Ali has just as good stamina, and Frazier also. Sure Marciano was a tough nail, but I cant for the love of God understand why he is better than Foreman, Ali, Frazier. I just don't see it.
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, if you think Frazier and Ali had as much stamina as Marciano, of course you can't see it. No one else would agree with you, outside of their families.
Marciano is recognized by most as the best conditioned heavyweight ever.
What made him unusual is he hit so hard, and he could do it for 15 rounds. It's very, very unusual. Also, he could hit from any position. Foreman was a slow thug. Even Ali said Marciano was better than Frazier.
@TA152H01 Yes he hit hard for 15 rounds, but not against the best opponents. Against low level opponents it's easy to throw punches without getting tired.
And there's not a single opponent of Rockys that Ali/Foreman/Frazier wouldnt have beaten, and with ease.
Ali had a 60% knockout ratio, that's not powder puff.
Question is who you fight and beat, not about kos.
Ask anyone outside your own familly who had the greater carreer and fought the better opponentst, and I think most would say Ali.
@TheBestBoxingGame Are you crazy? Ezzard Charles, Joe Walcott, and Archie Moore either as champions, or in their prime? How about Roland LaStarza? Ezzard Charles was 20x the fighter George Foreman was, and was relentless. Joe Walcott and Archie Moore forgot more than Ali ever knew about fighting, albeit with somewhat less talent.
@TA152H01 Rockys best wins were against aging fighters: Jersey Joe Walcot (39),Joe Luis(37),Archie Moore(39), Ezzard Charles (32 and 31)..
Hardly people in their prime, esp at the time when you were considered old at 30. Today is different because of better nutrition, better training, and less fights.
@TheBestBoxingGame 31 and 32 is old? Get real, you're just saying stupid stuff, since Marciano was about that age too. Moore fought until he was 47. He was champ well into his 40s. Yes, you're right, things have changed. 40s were 60s today :-P.
Most people think Charles fought the best fight of his career against Marciano. Yes, over the Hill.
Joe Louis was definitely past his prime, but still favored. He said Walcott peaked in his late 30s. You'd know better?
@TA152H01 31 and 32 is not old by todays standards, I explained that. But back then it was. Either way, by any standards, you're not prime at 30. So what about the other numbers (37, and 39) didnt see you comment on these :-P.
If you want to have a meaningful conversation, at least acknowledge the common, widespread fact among boxing fans, that Rocky Marciano beat a lot of legends, but they were all over the hill. Facts.
Rocky is two years younger than Charles so ok not much difference there. And I think you get me wrong. I stated some obvious facts that some of the legends that he beat, were over the hill. Facts. But he beat other good fighters to his credit.
What im failing to understand is that crucial thing that makes him in another league than Ali/Foreman/Frazier..I just can't see it. You might put him in the SAME league, but putting him above is wrong, nothing in his career indicated something like that.
@TheBestBoxingGame You don't know the difference between facts, and opinion.
Saying someone is past their prime is opinion. Joe Louis said Walcott reached his prime in his late 30s. He was champ.
Archie Moore was champ.
Everyone ages differently. 37 is old for most guys, but not all. Fact is they were both champs.
Your saying that 31 was old back then is simply idiotic. There is no basis. Archie Moore was champ into his 40s. Aaron hit the most HRs when he was 38.
@TheBestBoxingGame You've just said all anyone needs to know about your boxing knowledge.
Well, unless you mean before Marciano's prime. Walcott was in his prime, at least according to Louis, and there's nothing in that fight to indicate otherwise. Marciano was still before his prime, and was steadily improving with each fight.
His defense against Moore and Charles is markedly better.
@TA152H01 You can give him credit for Charles fight, fine..but Charles were no Ali or Foreman. Marciano never faced someone at that level
Did he ever face someone with the strength of Frazier, with the punching power of Foreman and with the speed or Ali ?I think not.
He always fought someone who was WEAKER than him, so he was sure he could break them down. He would NOT be able to break someone like Ali down. You think beating a blown up, old light heavyweight in Archie Moore qualifies for that
The reality is, Ali would be the best fighter Marciano faced, and Marciano would be the best guy Ali faced. Ali even said Marciano was better than Frazier. Foreman flat sucked. A slow, clumsy, no-stamina thug who lost to the "great" Jimmy Young, and nearly got knocked out by Ron Lyle. Marciano would have killed those two clowns.
@TheBestBoxingGame Yes, it's called common sense. Go to Walmart and buy some.
Watch Ali/Frazier I, a slower fight than Marciano/Charles I. Watch Marciano. Watch Frazier. Watch Ali. No one told Marciano it wasn't round 1. He fights like a wolverine defending his meal. Ali and Frazier are absolutely exhausted. And the fight wasn't nearly as active (which is saying something, since it was a great HW fight too).
@TA152H01 Ah now comes the insults..fine, I was expecting it, thanks for not letting me down..
You base your opinion on what you see, I base it on overall results. Nothing indicates to me that Ali wouldnt have found a way to deal with Marcianos active style.
Frazier and Ali are bigger men, so fight get slower..woudlnt really call it a slow fight, and Frazier looks fresh to the very end.
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, Ali disagrees with you then, and, of course, you'd know more than the guy in the ring. Ali said Frazier was dog tired in the 15th, as was he. He asked if he wasn't, why couldn't he finish him off.
They were both very tired. Marciano wasn't. He was throwing punches like a madman. It's simply how he was. Most consider him the best conditioned HW ever.
@TheBestBoxingGame If you keep saying stupid things, I'm not even going to waste my time with you.
He got hit with a bomb that probably would have knocked out a Rhino. Plain and simple. What are you even talking about. Say something that makes sense for a change.
@TA152H01 I dont have a problem with calling him a great fighter, but putting him above Ali/Foreman/Frazier is crazy. Based on what ? A win over a semi prime Charles, rest over the hill middle aged men and bums ?
@TheBestBoxingGame Why he was better? He never lost. He beat great fighters, two champs and Charles in what many consider the best fight of his career. Twice. Every guy that got into the ring with him sang his praises. Joe Louis said there wasn't a heavyweight ever that Marciano couldn't deal with on at least even terms. Jack Dempsey said he's never seen a guy hit that hard.
He broke bones with arm punches. He broke blood vessels so guys couldn't raise their arms. No one else could.
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, he beat two reigning champions, and another former champ who fought the best fight of his life, and is considered one of boxing's all time greats. He didn't lose to "greats" like Jimmy Young. He didn't lose to Ken Norton. He didn't lose to Leon Spinks. He didn't lose.
Everyone that fought him said how difficult he was, like Joe Louis, Archie Moore, and Jersey Joe.
You can't see what you don't want. You don't want to see it. You loss. Like your heros.
@TA152H01 He didnt even FIGHT someone at the level of Jimmy Young. Someone who was young, strong, big an a excellent boxer. He didnt even FIGHT someone like Ken Norton.
Yea probably would have beaten Young, but you know the old saying, style makes fights.
@TheBestBoxingGame Wait, wait. I think I'm seeing this, but I can't really believe it. I keep looking, and it looks like I'm seeing someone actually say Jimmy Young was better than Ezzard Charles. It can't be. Wait, Jimmy Young fought at a higher level than Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott when they were champs? Did I read that right? I don't even think he'd beat Roland LaStarza, but he's more in that league.
Young had an easy style for Marciano. He'd get worn down and killed.
@TA152H01 Dont forget, you're the one with the controversial view here, so don't pull the "you're too stupid for me" move, just because you can't back up anything you say.
Yes, Rocky had problems with Walcot and Moore...then he took over because he was stronger and younger.
Something he would not be able to do against Foreman/Ali/Frazier at their peak. Simple as that.
And no he wouldnt be able to do it against Young either, because he would simply box, move, grap and hold and outpoint him.
foremans legs were like tree trunks.He's just working out on a heavy bag here.
rw5791 5 hours ago
George foreman was 40-0 Ken Norton 32-3 after this.
sonofaballer96 1 week ago
Norton & Frazier were made for Foreman. He could have fought them both 20 times and hammered them every single time. All he had to do is clip Norton and it was all over, Norton wasn't made to handle half of Foreman's power.
schpongled 1 month ago
right uppercut, right cross, left hook to end norton might be the most devastating combos I can ever remember in a 3 punch sequence, just unbelievable power and fury---then he crowds norton within 12-16 inches with a look of I will kill you!
Fearsome foreman.
jabb69 1 month ago
@jabb69
lolz NIce, and when he met Ali he got the niceness beaten in him that we saw in the 90s, the oldest champion ever, Foreman.
UT5000 1 month ago
@UT5000 do a better job in telling me your point? I am confused with what you are validating or trying to counter?
jabb69 1 month ago
@jabb69
First i said Nice agreeing with your observation of teh fight for the most part.
Then with regards to him being a fearsome foe, I said yes this is why he also ended up being a very old, in fact the oldest heavyweight champion, but then his personality was much less fearsome because Ali had beaten teh niceness in him, lolz.
So overall i as validating and also making a joke to what would happen to Foreman later on with regards to him being fearsome, lolz. So yea.
UT5000 1 month ago
@UT5000 ok thank u- u can see why I didnt get it, thanks for the clarity, have a great day.
jabb69 1 month ago
Norton was always a sloppy, stiff, bad version of Alis defense.
RandomLevitation 1 month ago
LOL aNd to use alis own words here, he said aint no george foreman gonna destroy norton cause I couldnt do it in 24 rds, this after the 1st rd! LOL relax mo, in about 60 seconds he knocked him down and out 3 fuckin times LOL on the way to queersville LOL. No comment from the dumbass ali after that KO
jabb69 2 months ago
FREAKING SLEGEHAMMERS ON BOTH FISTS. The right uppercups, the combos, each time he was hit he was in querrsville LOL
jabb69 2 months ago
lol ali looks SOOOOO stupid being proud of norton who he teumpets going 24 rds with him, well get this punk, it took foreman 1.5 rds to do what you ali COULD NOT do. LMAO.
jabb69 2 months ago
@jabb69 you can say what you want and want but the whole world knows MUHAMMAD ALI IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIMES!!! LIGHTS OUT SUCKA
oguzcan3412 2 months ago
@oguzcan3412
"whole world knows MUHAMMAD ALI IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIMES"
oh really? the whole world knows, eh? well guess who disagrees? Muhammad Ali, that's who!
"the king, the master, my idol." - Muhammad Ali on Sugar Ray Robinson, the greatest fighter who ever lived.
Robstailey 2 months ago
@Robstailey hahahah funny stuff man but that is Muhammad Alis own opinion. The World, the sport personality chose him as the greatest fighter of all times. Why didnt they choose sugar ray robinson then? why muhammad ali?? BECAUSE HE IS THE GREATEST HE WON 3 TIMES THE BELT AND KNOCKED OUT GEORGE FOREMANS ASS ! ALI WAS A PURE ENTERTAINER AND AWSOME BOXER! NOONE CAN TAKE HIS PLACE MAN YOU GUYS AINT SHIT
oguzcan3412 2 months ago
@oguzcan3412 his career record was 56-5 with 37 kos- foreman was 78 and 5 with 68 KNOCKOUTS. He clearly was the fightgames master at kos and quick endings to fight. It matters little what you or I say, but the bottom line is foreman beat the shit out of the same guys ali had tremendous trouble with, he basically got his ass kicked by norton in what was tough fights for ali, of course frazier beat him and probably beat him twice if you ask me. Foreman proved he just devastated guys.
jabb69 2 months ago
@oguzcan3412 maybe its because Ali is fresher the robinson when there was t.v. just sayin
homicidalmonkeyz 1 month ago
@oguzcan3412 due to his huge personality and salesmanship is why he has the greatest rep, truth is he was a boring jab and move fighter, give me tough fighters, bot dancers and movers0 ali was good, but not the greatest at all.
jabb69 2 months ago
@jabb69
true, and it's pretty well known ali never really got the best of norton. the first fight was the only really decisive one of the three, the second and third were dubious, questionable decisions at best.
Robstailey 2 months ago
@jabb69 damn whats with you? ali defeated george foreman whos a beast in and out of his prime, why so much hate man?
SuperGonggong 1 month ago
@SuperGonggong there is no hare bro, just being honest, besides, in reality the way ali treated frazier and others why you bowing down to him? meaning since he was so disrespectful to excellence, and made money as a BS artist, who cares if some thought he was dramatically overrated, he is a man who lost 5official fights, but was in about another 6-7 hotly contested decisions. I simply thought a lot of his fights were him using his speed to hab and move, not very exciting.
jabb69 1 month ago
@jabb69 meant 5 official losses..etc
jabb69 1 month ago
@jabb69 the man was a mentally fit, he was so smart, take it from g foreman, he was a genius, and he had great respect for his opponents, its about strategy, he threw em off their game and it works all the time, but my all time great was roy jones jr, i mean he didnt have many defining fights, but skillwise i think hes the best, just my opinion but a bud of mine knew for a small heavy like him he did alright, and shit he defeated george, but years after he even became friends, its strategy.
SuperGonggong 1 month ago
@SuperGonggong look its not I like I said he is terrible, I just dont get anywhere near the whole mantra---self dubbed BTW, the greatest of all time----he was GREAT in footwork, speed, and yes pschology, although he was brutal to frazier and I do hold it against him, he was downright racist to a man that had more integrity in his pinky then ali had in his whole body, and I am not a black man. PS bob sheridan is calling the fight, he has called 800 of em , his comments in here are awsome.
jabb69 1 month ago
@jabb69 ali a racist? remember why he chucked that medal into a river over racism? as i said i think roys the greatest but its all opinion based, i would put ali over almost everyone. his reflexes were great and he had a good chin, he was no slouch.
SuperGonggong 1 month ago
@SuperGonggong of course, do you know what he said and did to frazier before, during, and after? Name after name after name, humiliated him with derogatory name calling the SOB, who the hell does he think he is? he didn't dominate frazier, the man behaved like a moron....his sad condition today is karma, frazier was somewhat healthy until he passed, heard him many times long after he retired, foreman is more a success story, humble funny, AND WAY MORE fun to watch fight, ali cant recall ur name
jabb69 1 month ago
@jabb69 can u pm me? i hate digging thru comments, as for karma, many fighters have and will develop this, foreman even said you can overwelcome your stay and pay dearly for it, but at least ali didnt spend the rest of his life thinking about what if I... foreman is a fun fighter, i cant deny that, but ali could excite fans as well. ex ali shuffle, rjj might turn into a shell if he keeps fighting like this, but ill never look at him differently hes still a gifted fighter. and always will be.....
SuperGonggong 1 month ago
@jabb69 - There was a documentary, shown in Britain, about the Thrilla in Manila and it noted that Ali had met with the KKK before heading out to the far east. Ali's views on race were, in fact, identical to those of the KKK. Ali was a great fighter but a nasty human being while poor old Joe Frazier was in his shadow.
I've also seen Ali launch into a racist rant on David Frost's chat show so he had plenty of form for it.
BruceinFalkirk 3 weeks ago
@BruceinFalkirk yea, you dont behave the way he did just to sell a few more tickets as his fans claim, he was mean and meant it, the dope prolly wanted to be just a tad lighter then his light brown ( not black ) showed. Im sick of the holier then thou crowd that is like a cult, like frazier said, " he could have fallen into the flames at the Olympics for all he cared. You can make mistakes, and we forgive, but ali from were I sit never made amends for his nastiness, and so the hell with him
jabb69 2 weeks ago
Look at the uppercut at 6:17. What a monster shot... that whiplash! O_O
CZZZZZm 2 months ago
george was one mean man
kooshconti 2 months ago
George Foreman or Mike Tyson ?
mrcjrowe 2 months ago
what a idiot ali sounds like, I mean u r supposed to analyze the fight not sit in nortons corner and root him on- fuck ali- him and his BS calling frazier a gorrilla- fuck him, foreman fucked em all up and ali would have been fucked in a rematch
jabb69 3 months ago
@jabb69 Ali beat Shavers, a harder hitter, YEARS later, Foreman would have lost again.
carmodifire 2 months ago
@carmodifire SURE thing old timer, shavers was tough but not in foremans class, did shavers beat frazier and knock down the champ 6 times in a rnd and a half, frazier said it the best, george hits harder then anyone on the planet. Period
jabb69 2 months ago
Awesome vid. Foreman was bless to have Archie Moore and Clancy in his corner during his career.
MrBigpopsonswoll 3 months ago
¡Impresionante! Foreman, tenía un estilo muy semejante al de Carlos Monzón: se movía lento en el ring, parecía que anunciaba sus golpes... lo que hacía era simplemente acomodar con la izquierda y definir con la derecha...¡¡¡pero cuándo esos golpes llegaban de lleno eran los más fuertes de la historia del boxeo!!! ¡GENIO GEORGE!
rbrtdornel 3 months ago
Boy, Foreman was a monster. He made Norton look and fight like an amateur welterweight. Just crushed him. When you consider how much trouble Norton and Frazier gave Ali and Holmes (Norton anyway), you start to understand just how strong this dude was.
tlig 3 months ago
@tlig You're right. Norton gave Ali hell for 24 rounds, then Foreman devastated Norton in 2 rounds. Then Ali overwhelmed Foreman; that's a pure miracle what Ali did to Foreman.
AliYourBrother 3 months ago
Comment removed
brakeyourself 3 months ago
@brakeyourself No one can understand what you're trying to say because you have absolutely zero writing skills.
seka1986 2 months ago
i love watching foreman fight i just love his style,its like tyson just waiting for the opening,stalking then going in for the kill,pure aggression.
fiveofiveo1 3 months ago
after ali beat forman
ali didnt need anyone to beat him again
hes the greats for all time
bethoveenzeyad 3 months ago
Lmao
illuminatiCannibal 3 months ago
KEN NORTON WAS A GOOD FIGHTER, BUT HIS CHIN WAS ALWAYS SUSPECT. EVERY TIME HE FACED A BIG PUNCHER IT WAS LIGHTS OUT. FOREMAN WAS AS BIG A PUNCHER AS THERE WAS. HE HAD NO CHANCE IN THIS FIGHT.NORTON FOUGHT GREAT AGAINST ALI AND HOLMES BUT THOSE GUYS WERE MASTER BOXERS.
MultiJman69 3 months ago
"NORTON IS IN QUEERSVILLE!" That's not a cool thing for the commentator to say. (at 6:30 on the timeline.)
AliYourBrother 3 months ago
@AliYourBrother was a good thing to say back in those days, these days he would be asked to leave his job. Thats how America is right now, sadly. Bunch of sissys who get offended out of anything.
bluekeet 3 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
and just at that moment you could smell the shit in ali's trousers ...christ I'm next
donnyab 3 months ago in playlist MUHAMMAD ALI
@donnyab
but ali open forman ass after this fight in same year
bethoveenzeyad 3 months ago
the annihilation of norton!!
capoislamort100 4 months ago
Ken Norton see this vídeo 4 times !
pauloafonso100 4 months ago
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katofromgreenhornet 4 months ago
la potenza di foreman era veramente terrificante!
DRAGON7336 4 months ago
instead of pawing--which leaves u open & encourages an aggressive fighter to keep coming--Norton should have been throwing stiff, head snapping jabs from the very beginning but he was busy feeling out Foreman, while George was going for the ko from the start. strategy should've been establish the jab early and work ur combinations off of it, keep ur back off the ropes, move to Foreman's left, throw the lead right hand -- and DONT FORGET TO DUCK!!
zulubro 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@zulubro Definitely do not forget to duck.
michaelyouth 5 months ago
Ali sounded like such a moron on this one,
TheDukeljk 5 months ago
both these men are mountains,they would kill any of the heavyweights today
rockpig63 5 months ago
@rockpig63 im no expert but i think your right.when you consider how long holmes and forman fought.Larry seemed in better shape during 1 of his comebacks than when he fought tyson and spinks.also as ya no these guyS were fighting 15 rounds?shit.As far as comparing tyson,holyfield,lennox, who knows??i wish i could see all the greats square off in there total prime including JOE LEWIS.DEMPSEY ETC...The only fighter i ever saw foreman say he wouldnt fight is lennox lewis in his prime over rudduck.
timpenfield5 5 months ago
norton is in queersville!!!!!
unvanquishableone 5 months ago
...i dont think a young tyson would beat a young ali frazier foreman lyle shavers norton or larry holmes
lynnethc 5 months ago
@lynnethc Not sure about what you just said. I thought for years that Tyson was overrated but now I'm not so sure. Tyson was almost as powerful as Foreman but was faster and threw a lot of combos when he was in his prime. Later on he just didn't throw many combinations, always trying to take someone's head off with one punch. It would be so awesome to be God and have young Tyson and young Foreman fight! What would be your dream match?
terrtj 5 months ago
@terrtj this is leo ( using wifes youtube as lynnethc) i think all the really good fighters from 70s wouldve beat tyson cuz they had more heart, tyson didnt seem to have the guts to fight past 6 rounds...foreman gave holyfield a really tough fight at age 42 and tyson did not do shit either time vs holyfield at age 30...i wouldve loved to have seen foreman and tyson square off at age 25, my money is on GF...thrilla in manila was incredible in that they went 14 rds in 100 degree heat past age 30
leonetski 5 months ago
foreman was a monster during that time. he would just club u to death....no one gave a 32 y.o. ali a chance
lynnethc 5 months ago
Those hits by foreman didn't look too bad until they showed it in slow motion
tmaz85 5 months ago
norton the same guy that broke ali's jaw
ZigZagRunner 5 months ago
lmao! norton went to queersville after being knocked down
bluekeet 5 months ago
Now that was a real heavyweight fight. 70's was so exciting for boxing
bluekeet 5 months ago
damn!! at 6:12 foreman went BOOM! an norton went BOINGG!!
olamf1977 5 months ago
damn, one thing about foreman, if he stunned you, you were toast, cause the guy could hit. this is almost scary to watch.
tomitstube 6 months ago
I'll bet 100% of the people on this board who think Marciano was in the top 2 all-time are white guys. If Cooney had ever won the title, even for a minute, he'd be in their top 2 or 3 too. Ditto any other white fighter.
If Marciano had been black, he'd get almost no votes for top spot all-time. His race serves as a kind of affirmative action card for white fans in a sport that is frankly dominated by African-Americans.
Pizuzuzimmer 6 months ago
@Pizuzuzimmer You are totally right, IMHO man. And, for the record, I'm white and European. For me, the best 3 heavyweights in all history are Ali, Frazier, Foreman, followed by Louis, Holyfield and - now - Marciano. He ranks 6th for me. He was a great brawler but lacked ellegance.
bigladiesman 6 months ago
why you forget ali stop boxing ( 3 years ) 1967-1970 and went the jail
so when ali come back he not same ali in 60s
ali was champion when norton frizer forman was( littel boys ) when -he beat sonny liston in 60s was boxers better than forman
norton , like patterson so ali was up 30 years in 70s however
ali beat all that boxers in 70s frazier and norton and becom champion ( again )
and withe forman the man he was 37 won 33ko no looses
in 1974 ali was 32 !!! so what
ali the greats
bethoveenzeyad 6 months ago
lol 7:11
"Now watch this...BANG!"
Beastie06 6 months ago
BestBoxingGame is correct! People like Marciano, who managed their careers in the ring to perfection, will always be attacked by those wanting to elevate lesser boxers. What is inarguable however is that Joe Louis was the greatest, NOT Ali. Marciano would rank as No. 2. It's a shame that Foreman blew his career after Zaire. He would have killed Ali in a rematch. Ali couldn't dominate Frazier, got whipped by Norton, a total pretender, and got whipped by little Leon Spinks.
epspivey 6 months ago
@epspivey I hear what you're saying, and agree on Joe Louis, but I don't consider Norton a pretender, and doubt Foreman would have killed Ali in a rematch. I will grant you this though, there's no way he would have fallen for the rope-a-dope again! A rematch would have looked more like the Thrilla in Manilla, or Ali-Lyle or Ali-Norton III. Though George may indeed have beat him.
Ali's best years were Liston-Foley.
zenmachinefilms 6 months ago
@zenmachinefilms Thanks for your rational comments. You at least have made balanced comments. I think the other people on this board are part of the "cult of Cassius Clay." They are completely irrational. If Ali were the greatest, he would have dominated his era. He did NOT!! People for some reason (perhaps out of wholesomeness) are unwilling to consider that perhaps the Liston bouts weren't altogether above board. Many experts--and I'm not talking Howard Cosell--considered the fight a fake.
epspivey 6 months ago
@epspivey
You miss the contextual point, not to mention, as someone else already pointed out, that you seemingly forget that Ali was stripped of his title during prime years--if he'd not had the draft issue, he'd have been champ at least from '64 to the Frazier loss in '71. And the fact that the heavy weight division was MUCH more loaded with talent in this period than it was when Marciano or Louis were fighting is a key you do not acknowledge.
Pizuzuzimmer 6 months ago
@zenmachinefilms Ali was a great fighter, no doubt about it. And I think he represented the U.S. with honor at the Rome games of 1960 when he talked down the Russian reporter. I have great respect for Ali, but I do not drop into irrational hagiography about his career. He was great, but not the greatest. Anyone watching Joe Lous' bouts cannot but be in awe of this magnificent fighter with a thunderous punch. He WAS the greatest, and he didn't have to shout out about it.
epspivey 6 months ago
@epspivey
Nonsense. Louis and Marciano fought mostly bum, third-rate fighters during their careers. The heavyweight division was never more loaded with quality, scary fighters than during the late '60s through the mid to late '70s--the four or five dominant fighters in that era (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Larry Holmes) would all beat either Louis or Marciano. And, moving closer to today, I'd bet my house on the young Tyson against either of them too.
Pizuzuzimmer 6 months ago
@epspivey
You're clearly just an Ali hater. Spinks beat him when he was OLD. Just like when Ezzard Charles beat up an old Louis. And it is beyond laughable to dismiss Norton in this way. The man was a far more quality fighter than 90% of the bums Marciano and Louis fought in their careers.
Pizuzuzimmer 6 months ago
The way Foreman hit was crazy. He didn't even have to plant his feet to get power into his shots. He'd knock you out any which way he felt like.
FSMNoodlyAppendage 6 months ago
Everybody says Norton was one of the greats...don't know bout that cuz in every big fights on the tube, he gettin' KTFO, even by a white boi!
Houseofthe7gayboys 7 months ago
Why don't boxer of today eat their spinach like these dudes did?
perfuzz 7 months ago
Forget Spartacus Blood and sand and all that crap.....these guys scare the shit outta me!!
tiger2995 7 months ago
Foreman's punching power is overrated. He's no Shavers or Marciano. Those guys could knock out guys with one punch, Foreman never could. He was very heavy handed though, and it's like nothing could stop the momentum of his shots.
I agree with Prime, he wasn't a great boxer at all. He makes mistake after mistake. Against Ali, and Young, they were exposed. Not all fighters expose mistakes, but sooner or later, someone does.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 foreman hit much harder than rocky and would kill him
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Based on what? Foreman was stronger, no doubt, based on his size, but he needed quite a few shots to knock guys out. Marciano had more one punch power, and often knocked guys out.
Everyone who faced Marciano complained bitterly about him hitting them ANYWHERE. He broke a guys arms. Guys couldn't keep their arms up. Common guys said he hit a lot harder than Louis.
Foreman had heavy hands, but unless he landed a lot of shots, guys weren't going down in most cases.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 based on what? he lifted guys off the canvas, and tossed frazir around like it was nothing, you cant honestly tell me that marciano can beat frazier like foreman, marciano imo would lose to frazier and foreman would kill him. also dempsey and louis said foreman was the hardest hitter they have seen. and alot or rockys kos were from the tiring of his oppo, most of foremans kos are within 4 rounds. once again please dont tell me you think rocky can beat foreman, or kill frazier
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Well, I guess you know more than Ali and Frazier, who both said Marciano was better than Frazier. Obviously, he was. He obviously hit harder than Foreman too. Look at how many punches it takes for him to knock Norton down, and finally to knock him out. If Marciano hit him one time cleanly, he'd be down, if not out. It wouldn't take 15 shots.
Every guy that fought Marciano said he hit obscenely hard, and often. Louis said he hurt even when you bumped into him.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 lol how is he obviously better than frazier. joe was faster,harder to hit,more aggressive more relentless and put on faster pressure and set a faster pace. all marciano has over joe is tthe right hand. joe is also the better bodypuncher.
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Well, Frazier wasn't harder to hit, didn't have nearly the punch, wasn't more aggressive (they were both) and didn't set nearly the pace. Marciano not only hit a lot harder, he had better endurance. He also had a much better chin.
Ali said Marciano was better, you think you know more? Even Frazier admitted it. They asked him if Louis and Marciano would beat Ali (he rated them one and two on his all time list of HW). He said yes, if I could, they could.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 how was frazier not harder to hit, he has the highest duck slip ratio of any other heavyweight. lol frazier not nearly the punch. frazier versed muuch better competition and they had much better chins and he still ko'd them. have you even watched frazier fight he fought at a much faster pace and closed the gap much quicker, marciano is slower than frazier in every way possible. what makes you think he had more endurance and a better chin
messier991102 7 months ago
@TA152H01 frazier was busier and fought faster and was always in motion. bert sugar said frazier was the most aggressive eavyweight and most relentless. what makes you think marciano set a faser pace. watch them side by side and joe was much more impressive. and chin. marciano was kd by an old ass archie moore. he never vered a fighter than hit as hard as frazier let alone foreman. who hit much harder than marciano,so did liston,and louis and tyson and shavers. frazier hits just as hard
messier991102 7 months ago
@TA152H01 and is much faster and relentless, marciano is overrated
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Except Ali and Frazier both say Marciano is better. But you'd know more than they?
Ali complained that a 45 year old Marciano hit him so hard his arms were black and blue. He always said he hit incredibly hard, even at 45.
Moore only scored a flash knockdown. Frazier got knocked silly by Bonavena, hurt by feather fisted Ali, and ass-mounted by Foreman twice.
There's no comparison. Frazier himself rates Marciano higher. So does Ali. Your opinion matters more?
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 frazier was in his 12 th pro fight when bonavena floored him. what bum was marciano fighting in his 12th fight. what about walcott was that a flash kd. ali hit ffrazier with so many punches and feather fist? the man has 37 kos. foreman is THE HARDEST HITTER OF ALL TIME. they rate marciano higher out of respect. frazier had an interview recently saying he would have beaten marciano and tyson. he said rocky was too slow and tyson gassed to fast. once again foreman would KILL marciano
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Ali had no punch at all, even he said so. Marciano got right up from Walcott as well. Right up, and then went on the attack. Same with Moore. Frazier got ass-raped by Foreman, blown out by Ali, who had the punching power of a middleweight (not a hard punching middleweight at that), and badly knocked down by Bonavena.
Ali said Marciano was better than Frazier. He'd know. You wouldn't.
Foreman the hardest hitter of all time? LOL! No one thinks so, well no one over 12.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 ali had no punch once again 37 ko's. frazier got up eveytime against foreman as well. marciano would have gotten murdered by foreman also. LOL blown out by ali. frazier would have went through marcianos opponents like water. alright fine the only fighters who hit harder or ont the same level were liston and shavers. all three hit much harder than marciano,the most overrrated champion of all time
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Again, it's always interesting to see some clown think he knows more than a real boxer like Ali. Ali said Marciano was better than Frazier? Who are you? No one. A nothing. Yet you know more than Ali, who actually got hit by a young Frazier, and a 45 year old Marciano. Did you know more than Joe Louis, who said Marciano could have fought anyone? Or Jack Dempsey, who said he considered him the hardest hitting heavyweight?
But you'd know more? Too funny.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 ali also said tyson could ko him in one punch, is that true? of course not. umm no dempsey considered foreman the hardest hitting HW. faace it. frazier has all of marcianos intagibles. everything that makes rocky rocky,frazier has. and he is faster,applies more pressure and is harder to hit,not to mention he is more aggressive and fought better competition.
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Frazier didn't beat better competition at all. Who did he beat? Ali once. That's pretty much his resume.
Marciano beat Charles (in his prime), Walcott (late 30s, but according to Louis, in his prime), Moore (also still champ), and Joe Louis. Joe was past his prime, but still favored to win. He also beat decent fighters like LaStarza. And here's the thing, he always won.
Marciano had more power, much better chin, better defense, better stamina, better defense.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 really i think its pretty well known frazier beat better comp than rocky and that rocky fought in the weakest era of HWs. power no,frazier beat oppo with better chins than old walcott. LOL better chin proof. had they fought frazier would be the hardest hitter marciano versed, and foreman would blow rocky out of the water. better defense, LOL frazier had the highest duck slip ratio of any other HW and made his oppo miss way more punches than rocky did. better stamina
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 You offer BS and think it's fact. Frazier beat who? He lost to Foreman and Ali. That's not worth talking about.
Frazier had NO defense. Look at his face after fights. Ali commented on how bad his defense was.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 why is frazier two steps below because he didnt go undefeated? which hadd he fought in marcianos era he would have. like i said watch them side by side,and if you think marciano is more impressive,your an ignorant fool. lol quarry a bum,better than anybody rocky fought. no defense right, ok so how come he has the highest duck slip ratio of anyother heavy. ignoraing that fact. ali actually said dumbass that frazier was hard to hit,watch how many punches ali mmissed on frazier
messier991102 7 months ago
@TA152H01 and all thos epunches he missed would land on marciano. frazier is just better in everyway
messier991102 7 months ago
@TA152H01 ill take a prime quarry,chuvalo,machen and near prime ali over old walcott,old louis, and LH more anyday of the weak.
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Yes, but then you'd be an idiot. Chuvalo? Quarry? Machen? LOL! Walcott was champ, he'd kill those guys.
Charles was 30. He'd destroy those bums. Get real.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 if frazier fought in marcianos era he would make short work of all his opponents. he would have gone undefeated also. ali would,foreman would,tyson would,liston would.
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 OK, you make supposition after supposition, with no support.
ALI said MARCIANO was better. He said I really do believe Marciano was better than Frazier.
It's not a comparison. Only a complete idiot would say Frazier is as good. Ali/Marciano is at least worth talking about. Frazier? Two steps below.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 frazier,ali,holmes,liston,foreman,tyson,lewis,louis all would have beaten marciano.
messier991102 7 months ago
@TA152H01 ali also said joe was the 2nd greastest fighter (after him) after there 3rd fight. alis right, when he threw it hard has some power. but he was speed based. didnt need so much power.
evol121 7 months ago
@evol121 Ali said that after many fights, about many fighters.
Let's be real, Ali/Frazier III was a fight between two fighters that didn't belong in the top 100 at that point. Nothing either could do would make them all-time greats at that point, they were both past their prime.
Ali himself said he had no punch, so did Frazier. He probably had less punching power than any heavyweight champ ever, at least since Joe Louis. Even Patterson hit harder.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 top 100 your are fucking moronic, do you have something against them,they were the two best fighters in the world still
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 You're just a retarded idiot. Read, you dumb ass. By Ali/Frazier III, they were shells and were not great. Nothing Frazier did in that fight was great, he was a spent fighter, and so was Ali. By that time, neither was even a top 100 all time fighter. Ali early in his career was, of course. Frazier, probably not. Top 100 HW though, for sure.
Learn English, dumb ass.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 lol frazier only makes top 100 fighters. hes usually number 6 or 7 in rankings. definetly greater than marciano,nothing frazier did in that fight was great? lol thats why its considered the greatest fight of all time. ignorant cunt. your whole argument is that "ALI said marciano was better" thats it,im providing facts. do you realize the average age of marcianos oppo was 35. damn, like holmes said he is a 25 year old man fighting 35 year old men,holmes would also go undefeated in
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 You are a complete idiot. You don't speak English? Are you retarded? I keep saying, but you're too fucking stupid to understand, by the time of that fight, neither fighter was great. It's like Leonard/Hearns II, or Leonard/Hagler. Very good fights, by FORMER great fighters that no longer were. Frazier maybe one cut below great in his prime, but Ali clearly was. The point being, neither were still great fighters by Manila.
TA152H01 7 months ago
Respond to this video... in marcianos era,and so would louis,and holyfield,and lewis. the list goes on and on
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 What video? You can have your idiotic fantasies, but the reality stands. Marciano won every fight. That's not speculation. Ali didn't, and couldn't. Frazier didn't and couldn't. I'm not speculating here. Ali was a very talented guy, but made a lot of mistakes, and lost fights because he couldn't figure out certain styles. Frazier simply wasn't as talented, and isn't really in the same category as Marciano, or Ali.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 watch them side by side,frazier is faster,applies harder pressure,is harder to hit and is the better inside ffighter. how do you expect them to win everyother fight fighting in the best era of HWs. frazier is much more talented than marciano. how is rocky more talented. joe has the edge on footwork/speed,handspeed,headspeed,and is the more skillful inside fighter. everything that made rocky special frazier has and more. and if joe wasnt in the same category as both fighters,
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 You probably want Frazier's hard pressure up your bung hole, god damn homo. I figured it out, you love Frazier.
Frazier had worse defense . Didn't have near the power. Didn't have near the chin. Didn't have the stamina. He surely wasn't as good an inside fighter. You don't know boxing at all, you just know Frazier butt. What makes Marciano so great is he could throw punches from anywhere, from any angle, even when off balance.
Two steps below.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 no more than you love marciano. your losing an arggument so you revert to gay jokes, real mature. like i said if joe had a wrose defence he wouldnt have the highest slip ratio. if he didnt have near the power he wouldnt have 27 kos over better oppo. marcinos chin is no better than frazier, not one of his opponents hit as hard as frazier let alone foreman. marciano was a lot sloppier than frazier and missed alot more punches. foolish, how does rockys dick taste?
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Where is his high slip ratio? Where are you getting this from?
Hypocritical complaining about gay jokes and finishing with one. Kind of makes you sound stupid in yet another way.
Are you serious? 72% is not a high knockout ratio, Rocky's was over 87%, against better opponents. Ali was Frazier's only important win. Foreman raped him. Rocky fought Charles, Walcott, Moore, Layne, LaStarza, Louis. Quarry was decent, but those got stopped cuts. Marciano's were real.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 its on east side boxing forum, its will take a while to find it but its there. foreman killed him yes, but marciano would also not have any chance,and all of marcianos oppo frazier would have killed also. all of rockys big win were over lhw. if ali had so little power, how did he ko moore faster than rock did? look when frazier fought a lhw,ko 2. ali vs foster ko 9. marciano vs charles ko 11? marciano didnt get hurt cus he never fought anybody that can hit. old louis? lol.
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 If Marciano hit Foreman, Foreman would wake up next week. If the fight lasted longer than two rounds, and keep in mind Marciano was never seriously hurt, Foreman would wake up next week.
Charles was HEAVYWEIGHT champion. Foster never was, was he? Moore was very, very old and very fat. Are you stupid enough to say Ali had more punching power than Marciano? LOL! You're one dumb bunny.
By the way, Ali's knockout percent 60%. Marciano's? 88%. 60% is very low.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 HAHAHA marciano ko foreman im done,your a dumbass. how do you expect foser to be champion with alli and frazier in the same division? im not saying ali had more power,he didnt,but he had power. atleast im not the stupid one who thinks marciano hit harder than foreman.
messier991102 7 months ago
@messier991102 Foreman got knocked out by powder puff Ali, and knocked down by Jimmy Young. Ron Lyle, a horrible fighter, knocked Foreman silly. Not one of those guys approaches Marciano's power, yet you think Marciano couldn't knock out Foreman? Dumb. Just dumb.
If Marciano hit Norton with a clean shot, he'd go down. It wouldn't take 15. He had better one punch power.
Forget Ali and Frazier, Foster couldn't compete against HWs at all. He lost to Foley and Terrell too.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Ali was not a "powder puff" puncher. He punched hard enough to knock anyone out if he landed.
He didnt beat Foreman with punching power though, but his boxing skills and accuracy. Something Marciano would not be able to do. He would go power for power with Foreman, and since Foreman is more powerfull AND a better boxer AND bigger, he would win.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, we know that's not true, since he fought Frazier three times, and Norton three times, and couldn't seriously hurt either of those two, in 41 rounds, and 39 rounds. Neither had a great chin. Powder puff it is.
Foreman didn't have a bigger punch. Marciano knocked guys down and out with one shot, Foreman normally needed quite a few.
Foreman would hate leaning in to Marciano, and with his weaker chin, and weaker heart (early career), would struggle badly.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 To call Alis punches powder puff is insane. Simple as that. He was not considered a thunderous puncher, but wasnt a weak puncher either. He had enough KOs on his resume to be called a good puncher.
But like I stated before, and something that you avoid, is that he OUTBOXED Foreman, made him tired, then gutted him.
Well you have your opinion thats fine, but dont come along outrageous like "Foreman was a bum, Frazier is a bum, Ali powderpuff". I mean comeone..
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Foreman had no skill, never beat anyone besides Joe Frazier his first time around. He was slow, amateurish, and had no stamina. On top of that, he DIDN'T have one punch power. He score a lot of hits, or the guy didn't go down. He also had no heart until he second crusade.
He's not in the same league as Marciano or Ali. Neither is Frazier.
Ali had no power. Even Frazier said so. Even Ali admitted he didn't hit hard.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 if he had nothing what a boxer should have why is his record then Total fights 81
Wins 76
Wins by KO 68
Losses 5
MrJoelouisbarrow 7 months ago
@MrJoelouisbarrow He had heavy hands, that's it. He definitely had very good power, just not the one-punch power people say.
Look at the scrubs he beat along the way too. Not many greats in that list.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Dont make Rocky Marciano out to be some kind of superman. Old man Ezzard Chales boxed circles around him but was too out of prime to win the fight. Marciano never ever faced someone of the caliber of Foreman, Ali and Frazier.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Again, you're wrong. Charles was only 30 years old when he fought Marciano, and many consider that his best fight. Also, he was NOT leading the fight. For the first fight, it was very close for the first 10 rounds, 11-15 Marciano separated himself. The second fight, Marciano was ahead from the start.
He learned a lot from each fight.
Foreman was a bum, Frazier doesn't belong in a comparison with Marciano. Ali, true, but Marciano was better than any opponent of his
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Besides, I dont know who would win, maybe Rocky would win who knows, just the thing you base it on, like Rocky was God and the other bums. Rocky had plenty of problems against fighters not the caliber and size of Ali, Foreman,Frazier, what makes you think that he would simply ko these people like it's nothing ?
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame I never said he'd KO them like it was nothing. Those are your words. I simply said he's in a different league than Frazier and Foreman.
Marciano, like all heavyweights, had flaws, but he was unusual in that he hit extremely hard, and had the best stamina of any heavyweight. It's a good combination. He'd be hard to beat in any 15 round fight. 12 rounders would hurt him, which is why he'd be less effective today.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 I think Ali has just as good stamina, and Frazier also. Sure Marciano was a tough nail, but I cant for the love of God understand why he is better than Foreman, Ali, Frazier. I just don't see it.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, if you think Frazier and Ali had as much stamina as Marciano, of course you can't see it. No one else would agree with you, outside of their families.
Marciano is recognized by most as the best conditioned heavyweight ever.
What made him unusual is he hit so hard, and he could do it for 15 rounds. It's very, very unusual. Also, he could hit from any position. Foreman was a slow thug. Even Ali said Marciano was better than Frazier.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Yes he hit hard for 15 rounds, but not against the best opponents. Against low level opponents it's easy to throw punches without getting tired.
And there's not a single opponent of Rockys that Ali/Foreman/Frazier wouldnt have beaten, and with ease.
Ali had a 60% knockout ratio, that's not powder puff.
Question is who you fight and beat, not about kos.
Ask anyone outside your own familly who had the greater carreer and fought the better opponentst, and I think most would say Ali.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Are you crazy? Ezzard Charles, Joe Walcott, and Archie Moore either as champions, or in their prime? How about Roland LaStarza? Ezzard Charles was 20x the fighter George Foreman was, and was relentless. Joe Walcott and Archie Moore forgot more than Ali ever knew about fighting, albeit with somewhat less talent.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Rockys best wins were against aging fighters: Jersey Joe Walcot (39),Joe Luis(37),Archie Moore(39), Ezzard Charles (32 and 31)..
Hardly people in their prime, esp at the time when you were considered old at 30. Today is different because of better nutrition, better training, and less fights.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame 31 and 32 is old? Get real, you're just saying stupid stuff, since Marciano was about that age too. Moore fought until he was 47. He was champ well into his 40s. Yes, you're right, things have changed. 40s were 60s today :-P.
Most people think Charles fought the best fight of his career against Marciano. Yes, over the Hill.
Joe Louis was definitely past his prime, but still favored. He said Walcott peaked in his late 30s. You'd know better?
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 31 and 32 is not old by todays standards, I explained that. But back then it was. Either way, by any standards, you're not prime at 30. So what about the other numbers (37, and 39) didnt see you comment on these :-P.
If you want to have a meaningful conversation, at least acknowledge the common, widespread fact among boxing fans, that Rocky Marciano beat a lot of legends, but they were all over the hill. Facts.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
Rocky is two years younger than Charles so ok not much difference there. And I think you get me wrong. I stated some obvious facts that some of the legends that he beat, were over the hill. Facts. But he beat other good fighters to his credit.
What im failing to understand is that crucial thing that makes him in another league than Ali/Foreman/Frazier..I just can't see it. You might put him in the SAME league, but putting him above is wrong, nothing in his career indicated something like that.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame You don't know the difference between facts, and opinion.
Saying someone is past their prime is opinion. Joe Louis said Walcott reached his prime in his late 30s. He was champ.
Archie Moore was champ.
Everyone ages differently. 37 is old for most guys, but not all. Fact is they were both champs.
Your saying that 31 was old back then is simply idiotic. There is no basis. Archie Moore was champ into his 40s. Aaron hit the most HRs when he was 38.
TA152H01 7 months ago
Joe Walcot and Archie Moore were great fighters, and I'm pretty sure that they would have beaten Rocky in their prime.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame You've just said all anyone needs to know about your boxing knowledge.
Well, unless you mean before Marciano's prime. Walcott was in his prime, at least according to Louis, and there's nothing in that fight to indicate otherwise. Marciano was still before his prime, and was steadily improving with each fight.
His defense against Moore and Charles is markedly better.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 You can give him credit for Charles fight, fine..but Charles were no Ali or Foreman. Marciano never faced someone at that level
Did he ever face someone with the strength of Frazier, with the punching power of Foreman and with the speed or Ali ?I think not.
He always fought someone who was WEAKER than him, so he was sure he could break them down. He would NOT be able to break someone like Ali down. You think beating a blown up, old light heavyweight in Archie Moore qualifies for that
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Charles was a much better fighter than Foreman.
The reality is, Ali would be the best fighter Marciano faced, and Marciano would be the best guy Ali faced. Ali even said Marciano was better than Frazier. Foreman flat sucked. A slow, clumsy, no-stamina thug who lost to the "great" Jimmy Young, and nearly got knocked out by Ron Lyle. Marciano would have killed those two clowns.
I rate Liston much higher. But he had no heart.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 How do you know who had more stamina ? Do you have some kind of time traveling stamina measure gadget ?
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Yes, it's called common sense. Go to Walmart and buy some.
Watch Ali/Frazier I, a slower fight than Marciano/Charles I. Watch Marciano. Watch Frazier. Watch Ali. No one told Marciano it wasn't round 1. He fights like a wolverine defending his meal. Ali and Frazier are absolutely exhausted. And the fight wasn't nearly as active (which is saying something, since it was a great HW fight too).
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Ah now comes the insults..fine, I was expecting it, thanks for not letting me down..
You base your opinion on what you see, I base it on overall results. Nothing indicates to me that Ali wouldnt have found a way to deal with Marcianos active style.
Frazier and Ali are bigger men, so fight get slower..woudlnt really call it a slow fight, and Frazier looks fresh to the very end.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, Ali disagrees with you then, and, of course, you'd know more than the guy in the ring. Ali said Frazier was dog tired in the 15th, as was he. He asked if he wasn't, why couldn't he finish him off.
They were both very tired. Marciano wasn't. He was throwing punches like a madman. It's simply how he was. Most consider him the best conditioned HW ever.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Wallcot got better technically but not physically. He wasnt able to withstand the pressure because of his age.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame If you keep saying stupid things, I'm not even going to waste my time with you.
He got hit with a bomb that probably would have knocked out a Rhino. Plain and simple. What are you even talking about. Say something that makes sense for a change.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 I dont have a problem with calling him a great fighter, but putting him above Ali/Foreman/Frazier is crazy. Based on what ? A win over a semi prime Charles, rest over the hill middle aged men and bums ?
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Why he was better? He never lost. He beat great fighters, two champs and Charles in what many consider the best fight of his career. Twice. Every guy that got into the ring with him sang his praises. Joe Louis said there wasn't a heavyweight ever that Marciano couldn't deal with on at least even terms. Jack Dempsey said he's never seen a guy hit that hard.
He broke bones with arm punches. He broke blood vessels so guys couldn't raise their arms. No one else could.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 Sadly he never proved his "greatness" since he only faced over the hills, and bums. But yea he sure looked great against those.
TheBestBoxingGame 7 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Well, he beat two reigning champions, and another former champ who fought the best fight of his life, and is considered one of boxing's all time greats. He didn't lose to "greats" like Jimmy Young. He didn't lose to Ken Norton. He didn't lose to Leon Spinks. He didn't lose.
Everyone that fought him said how difficult he was, like Joe Louis, Archie Moore, and Jersey Joe.
You can't see what you don't want. You don't want to see it. You loss. Like your heros.
TA152H01 7 months ago
@TA152H01 He didnt even FIGHT someone at the level of Jimmy Young. Someone who was young, strong, big an a excellent boxer. He didnt even FIGHT someone like Ken Norton.
Yea probably would have beaten Young, but you know the old saying, style makes fights.
TheBestBoxingGame 6 months ago
@TheBestBoxingGame Wait, wait. I think I'm seeing this, but I can't really believe it. I keep looking, and it looks like I'm seeing someone actually say Jimmy Young was better than Ezzard Charles. It can't be. Wait, Jimmy Young fought at a higher level than Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott when they were champs? Did I read that right? I don't even think he'd beat Roland LaStarza, but he's more in that league.
Young had an easy style for Marciano. He'd get worn down and killed.
TA152H01 6 months ago
@TA152H01 Dont forget, you're the one with the controversial view here, so don't pull the "you're too stupid for me" move, just because you can't back up anything you say.
Yes, Rocky had problems with Walcot and Moore...then he took over because he was stronger and younger.
Something he would not be able to do against Foreman/Ali/Frazier at their peak. Simple as that.
And no he wouldnt be able to do it against Young either, because he would simply box, move, grap and hold and outpoint him.
TheBestBoxingGame 6 months ago