and not just anyone can win on clay when Henin was in her prime and healthy. Henin primed and healthy shut out all the other girls hopes of winning the French. From 2002-2007 the only 2 French Opens Henin did not win she was seriously injured (2002) or ill (2004). Had she not retired it likely would have continued.
@kljMN2 Henin has achieved it since but with a competition not as skilled on clay as the likes of Martinez, Sabatini, Capriati, Graf, Sanchez Vicario, whom Monica all beat on the way to her 3 FO titles.
@juju1305 Henin beat Serena on the way to 2 of her French Open titles. Serena is greater than Sabatini and Martinez even on clay, evidenced by the fact she has won a French Open title and they havent. And you really think prime Henin would have had any problem with Capriati on clay when a pre prime Henin even beat Capriati at her peak on grass at Wimbledon. Sorry but just no. The only people you listed who would give Henin any problem on clay are Graf and "maybe" Sanchez.
@heninwarrior Had Henin been around 10 years earlier, I doubt she would have been dominating both Graf and Seles. It took her a while to beat Monica who was way past her prime when their matches took place. She never faced Graf, so noone can tell. Now, the level Henin displayed in the FO06-07 on clay is as good as anyone ever playing on clay. But you can't assume she would have played at that level, had she been around earlier.
@juju1305 I didnt say she would dominate best Graf and Seles did I. However you listed people like Capriati who prime Henin would have had little trouble with especialy on clay. And Sabatini and Martinez arent powerful or mentally tough enough to have likely beaten a prime Henin in a slam even on clay. The only person Seles beat to win her 3 Frenchs that Henin might not have is Graf but Graf was way off her game in the early 90s so peak Henin probably would have beaten her around then too.
@juju1305 and Henin's loses to Monica were in 2001 and 2002 when yes Monica was past her prime, but Henin basically sucked at that point. She was owned by Clijsters, Davenport, both who she would own in her prime from 2003-2007, and even such marginal people as Hantucova and Dokic. Anyway I didnt say she was better than prime Seles. You are talking about the people Seles played though, and Henin is better than all of them except Graf.
@juju1305 I also saw you on another video telling someone that Serena had much tougher competition than Graf and Seles did, and now you are saying Henin won so many Frenchs in a row since she had easier competition. So which is it. You do realize Henin is Serena's contemporary, she had the same competition for success as Serena. That includes the great Serena herself who Henin barely trails in overall H2H 8-6, leads in slam H2H 4-2, and leads on clay 4-1.
@heninwarrior Yes, because Henin is one of Serena's competitor, duh. The players in the early 90s were better on clay while now this is one of the most open surfaces where virtually anyone can win. The overall career competition that Serena had to face ranges from Graf Seles in early stages of her career to today's top players, so this is a toughest field than the late 80s especially on fast surfaces.
@juju1305 well Serena is one of Henin's competitors and since Serena is greater than Henin that would mean if the rest of their competition is the same Serena has had tougher competition than Serena if anything. And Serenahardly faced Graf and Seles. Graf and Serena faced each in 2 matches (not slams) one year when Graf was soon to retire and Serena was just starting. And Seles was a warped shadow of herself by the time she played Serena, and barely a top 6 player at best.
It does appear to me that the WTA could of done more to help Monica Seles. I think all WTA tour events in Germany SHOULD of been banned AFTER the stabbing. The German court system allowed a man that attempted to MURDER a woman on LIVE TELEVISION to not spend a day in jail that's INJUSTICE. I honestly believe Germany is such a racist country they wanted their German golden girl Graf to be number one because they couldn't handle a Serb such as Seles dominating women's tennis.
He still would of did it no matter where they were playing if it happen in the U.S the only difference would of been is that he would be in jail but her career would of end the same.
that is a very big difference !!! He would have to pay... the only player at the top that stood by Monica and boycotted Germany was Davenport... I was very surprised more player weren't more vocal or involved in simple boycotting events in Germany !!!
Him going to jail is the difference everything else is the same.Plus you cant boycott events because of one person who was clearly a fanatic of Steffi if that was the case just about every sporting event would be boycotted
That is such an exageration taythewise, and yes you can boycott... an event in a country that doesn't view it their responsibility to protect the welfare of their visitors ... and yes my father is German
Nancy attacker's were held accountable. Do u realize that Monica could have been killed - 1/2 inch either way ? This doesn't even compare, getting hit in the knee with wood stick and having a 7 inch blade driven into your back. Nancy was at a pratice session not an event .. it is amatuer sport vs professional, representing your country vs what u do for a living. Monica was playing , Nancy was walking to the change room.
how about the football team that was kill during the Olympics did they boycott the Olympics no and what about the last Olympics did the boycott that when two people where kill one being the father of a coach who was coaching i think it was the volleyball team no these are people who die either it be amateur or professional an attack on an athlete no matter how sever is still an attack
U r making no sense and u going on and on about boycotting moving into every sport your first example failed because u don't know enough about what u r trying to say. What football team at what Olympics from which country...
Why don't u just get on a plane to Germany and support the German Open when it held... if u think it is so terrible that I feel more players should have boycotted and we will, leave it at that.. the criminal who did this to Monica never spent a day in jail !
this has nothing to do with Germany all i was saying is you cant hold a event responsible for one person by the way the team was Israel and the country was Germany
Actually Justine Henin to her credit equaled Monica's effort of winning three French Opens in a row. Justine Henin won the French Open in 2005, 2006, and 2007.
I think Navratilova's comments about that monster in Germany who stabbed Monica really explain it well about how truly terrible that incident in Hamburg was and that dirty, rotten lowlife that man is.
Monica Seles dominated the AO, the French, US Open slams (including YEC) between 90-93, beating graff 3-1 in slam finals during that time, 3-0 in the non-W slams. seles (the two- or three- time defending champ at the AO, FO, and USO) leaves the tour and graff suddenly wins the FO (hadn't won in 5 years), the AO (hadn't won in 4 years) and the USO (hadn't won in 4 years)..?
Nathalie Tauziat, was the first person, to bitch about Monica's grunting. Graf and Sabatini bitched about it as well. Seles would've been the best players out there, now. The stabbing, destroyed it all.
Great clip. she won 8 of her 9 slams in such a short space of time. if that german f**ker had not have stabbed her she would have gone on to have been the best tennis player (statistc wise) in history.
During a wta match telecast in 2002, Evert noted that before Seles's stabbing, she was clearly the best player in the world, and that Steffi hadn't won many slams in the 2-3 years before then. Then, after the stabbing, Graff went on a tear winning several more in the later years.
Evert reminds us of a key point. We can't know for sure what would have happened, but it is likely that Steffi won at least 8-9 additional slams that she wouldn't have won as a result of the Seles stabbing. That should be kept in mind when evaluating Graff vs. the likes of Evert and Navratilova.
Steffi won only 6 slams during Monica's absence (FO 93/95, Wim 93/95, USO 93, AO 94). You may want to look at slam wins by ASV, Pierce, Conchita...but I personally don't get into taking trophies from folks who've earned them. Martina and Chrissy are waxing eloquent now because their own wins and records were secure before Seles came on the scene. Notice that Tina was much less kind to Monica when she thought she had a chance to add some slam wins....
@radioramarule The greatest ever is Navratilova. And while Monica is great and it is a horrible shame what happened to her, she was never winning 9 Wimbledons or even coming close to that so no she would not have overtaken Martina.
Interesting that Navratilova has reached an epiphany concerning Seles since it was SHE who was complaining the most at Wimbledon in 1992, and it was SHE along with everyone else on the WTA Tour except Gabriela Sabatini who voted to NOT freeze Seles' #1 ranking. She and Monica may be good friends now, but I still don't like her...haha.
Are you aware that Martina Navratilova is the one most responsible for urging Monica out of retirement after her stabbing. She sponsored Seles' first match back -- an exhibition involving the two in Atlantic City. As said as what happened to Seles is, you can't freeze a number one ranking. The person is not number one coming back and it's not fair to the rest of the pack.
@Wht4BlkNC It's a good thing she realizes that she was wrong after all. The top players saw Seles' absence as a huge opportunity, despite the horror of what happened. Nevertheless, the benefitors were Sanchez-Vicario, Graf and Martinez, not Navratilova...
The frustrating thing about this is that we will simply never know. Monica could have had a dip in her form, so that Steffi would have taken over again. We can argue about this until we're blue in the face - and God knows we have! :P - but in the end it's anyone's guess I'm afraid.
I'd like to also point to the fact that Martina says "who knows?" *twice* in this clip, thereby confirming what I just wrote 20 minutes ago. It remains arguably the most agonizing "what if?" in sports history.
Same here! I've always been a Monica-fan - and by the way, Steffi right after her - so I understand your feelings perfectly. :( Yet I think it's remarkable how we are still so upset about it after 14 years. Just look at the number of discussions between Seles-fans and Graf-fans on the internet, both claiming that their heroine is the best of all time. Both groups still are very sensitive and defensive about the issue.
Jankovic is hot...
mattc941 1 year ago
and not just anyone can win on clay when Henin was in her prime and healthy. Henin primed and healthy shut out all the other girls hopes of winning the French. From 2002-2007 the only 2 French Opens Henin did not win she was seriously injured (2002) or ill (2004). Had she not retired it likely would have continued.
heninwarrior 1 year ago
Because of Gunther Parche, the tennis greats ranking went from potentially 1Martina-Seles-Evert-Court 2Graf-BillieJeanKing
TO
1Martina-Evert 2Graf, 3Court, 4Seles
..
Tennis history will always have an esterisk, and the esterisk is called Gunther Parche.
..
How sad ..
uuduu7 1 year ago
I just realized that Monica accomplished something even Steffi couldn't do - win the French Open three years in a row!
kljMN2 2 years ago
@kljMN2 Henin has achieved it since but with a competition not as skilled on clay as the likes of Martinez, Sabatini, Capriati, Graf, Sanchez Vicario, whom Monica all beat on the way to her 3 FO titles.
juju1305 1 year ago
@juju1305 Henin beat Serena on the way to 2 of her French Open titles. Serena is greater than Sabatini and Martinez even on clay, evidenced by the fact she has won a French Open title and they havent. And you really think prime Henin would have had any problem with Capriati on clay when a pre prime Henin even beat Capriati at her peak on grass at Wimbledon. Sorry but just no. The only people you listed who would give Henin any problem on clay are Graf and "maybe" Sanchez.
heninwarrior 1 year ago
@heninwarrior Had Henin been around 10 years earlier, I doubt she would have been dominating both Graf and Seles. It took her a while to beat Monica who was way past her prime when their matches took place. She never faced Graf, so noone can tell. Now, the level Henin displayed in the FO06-07 on clay is as good as anyone ever playing on clay. But you can't assume she would have played at that level, had she been around earlier.
juju1305 1 year ago
@juju1305 I didnt say she would dominate best Graf and Seles did I. However you listed people like Capriati who prime Henin would have had little trouble with especialy on clay. And Sabatini and Martinez arent powerful or mentally tough enough to have likely beaten a prime Henin in a slam even on clay. The only person Seles beat to win her 3 Frenchs that Henin might not have is Graf but Graf was way off her game in the early 90s so peak Henin probably would have beaten her around then too.
heninwarrior 1 year ago
@juju1305 and Henin's loses to Monica were in 2001 and 2002 when yes Monica was past her prime, but Henin basically sucked at that point. She was owned by Clijsters, Davenport, both who she would own in her prime from 2003-2007, and even such marginal people as Hantucova and Dokic. Anyway I didnt say she was better than prime Seles. You are talking about the people Seles played though, and Henin is better than all of them except Graf.
heninwarrior 1 year ago
@juju1305 I also saw you on another video telling someone that Serena had much tougher competition than Graf and Seles did, and now you are saying Henin won so many Frenchs in a row since she had easier competition. So which is it. You do realize Henin is Serena's contemporary, she had the same competition for success as Serena. That includes the great Serena herself who Henin barely trails in overall H2H 8-6, leads in slam H2H 4-2, and leads on clay 4-1.
heninwarrior 1 year ago
@heninwarrior Yes, because Henin is one of Serena's competitor, duh. The players in the early 90s were better on clay while now this is one of the most open surfaces where virtually anyone can win. The overall career competition that Serena had to face ranges from Graf Seles in early stages of her career to today's top players, so this is a toughest field than the late 80s especially on fast surfaces.
juju1305 1 year ago
@juju1305 well Serena is one of Henin's competitors and since Serena is greater than Henin that would mean if the rest of their competition is the same Serena has had tougher competition than Serena if anything. And Serenahardly faced Graf and Seles. Graf and Serena faced each in 2 matches (not slams) one year when Graf was soon to retire and Serena was just starting. And Seles was a warped shadow of herself by the time she played Serena, and barely a top 6 player at best.
heninwarrior 1 year ago
I love Martina's comments here. So sad :-(
Peteypooooo 3 years ago
she was the best !
FCBrugge111 3 years ago
It does appear to me that the WTA could of done more to help Monica Seles. I think all WTA tour events in Germany SHOULD of been banned AFTER the stabbing. The German court system allowed a man that attempted to MURDER a woman on LIVE TELEVISION to not spend a day in jail that's INJUSTICE. I honestly believe Germany is such a racist country they wanted their German golden girl Graf to be number one because they couldn't handle a Serb such as Seles dominating women's tennis.
JordanjamesX 3 years ago
He still would of did it no matter where they were playing if it happen in the U.S the only difference would of been is that he would be in jail but her career would of end the same.
taythewise 2 years ago
that is a very big difference !!! He would have to pay... the only player at the top that stood by Monica and boycotted Germany was Davenport... I was very surprised more player weren't more vocal or involved in simple boycotting events in Germany !!!
karrtt1234 2 years ago
Him going to jail is the difference everything else is the same.Plus you cant boycott events because of one person who was clearly a fanatic of Steffi if that was the case just about every sporting event would be boycotted
taythewise 2 years ago
That is such an exageration taythewise, and yes you can boycott... an event in a country that doesn't view it their responsibility to protect the welfare of their visitors ... and yes my father is German
karrtt1234 2 years ago
Have you live in Germany or even visit there to make a statement like that.
taythewise 2 years ago
And ,I fail to see what that has to do with anything ?
karrtt1234 2 years ago
my last comment about living in Germany wasn't toward you. Any how did they boycott the ice skating event when Nancy Kerrigan was attack no
taythewise 2 years ago
Nancy attacker's were held accountable. Do u realize that Monica could have been killed - 1/2 inch either way ? This doesn't even compare, getting hit in the knee with wood stick and having a 7 inch blade driven into your back. Nancy was at a pratice session not an event .. it is amatuer sport vs professional, representing your country vs what u do for a living. Monica was playing , Nancy was walking to the change room.
karrtt1234 2 years ago
how about the football team that was kill during the Olympics did they boycott the Olympics no and what about the last Olympics did the boycott that when two people where kill one being the father of a coach who was coaching i think it was the volleyball team no these are people who die either it be amateur or professional an attack on an athlete no matter how sever is still an attack
taythewise 2 years ago
U r making no sense and u going on and on about boycotting moving into every sport your first example failed because u don't know enough about what u r trying to say. What football team at what Olympics from which country...
Why don't u just get on a plane to Germany and support the German Open when it held... if u think it is so terrible that I feel more players should have boycotted and we will, leave it at that.. the criminal who did this to Monica never spent a day in jail !
karrtt1234 2 years ago
this has nothing to do with Germany all i was saying is you cant hold a event responsible for one person by the way the team was Israel and the country was Germany
taythewise 2 years ago
Actually Justine Henin to her credit equaled Monica's effort of winning three French Opens in a row. Justine Henin won the French Open in 2005, 2006, and 2007.
JordanjamesX 3 years ago
Monica could use your help. She's on ABC's Dancing with the Stars this season. She dances tonight! VOTE!!!
sophielady4 4 years ago
I think Navratilova's comments about that monster in Germany who stabbed Monica really explain it well about how truly terrible that incident in Hamburg was and that dirty, rotten lowlife that man is.
kljMN2 4 years ago
Monica Seles dominated the AO, the French, US Open slams (including YEC) between 90-93, beating graff 3-1 in slam finals during that time, 3-0 in the non-W slams. seles (the two- or three- time defending champ at the AO, FO, and USO) leaves the tour and graff suddenly wins the FO (hadn't won in 5 years), the AO (hadn't won in 4 years) and the USO (hadn't won in 4 years)..?
ROGERPETES 4 years ago 4
Nathalie Tauziat, was the first person, to bitch about Monica's grunting. Graf and Sabatini bitched about it as well. Seles would've been the best players out there, now. The stabbing, destroyed it all.
KissFreak09 4 years ago 2
Great clip. she won 8 of her 9 slams in such a short space of time. if that german f**ker had not have stabbed her she would have gone on to have been the best tennis player (statistc wise) in history.
radioramarule 4 years ago 7
Very True radio.
During a wta match telecast in 2002, Evert noted that before Seles's stabbing, she was clearly the best player in the world, and that Steffi hadn't won many slams in the 2-3 years before then. Then, after the stabbing, Graff went on a tear winning several more in the later years.
ROGERPETES 4 years ago 2
(continued)
Evert reminds us of a key point. We can't know for sure what would have happened, but it is likely that Steffi won at least 8-9 additional slams that she wouldn't have won as a result of the Seles stabbing. That should be kept in mind when evaluating Graff vs. the likes of Evert and Navratilova.
ROGERPETES 4 years ago
Steffi won only 6 slams during Monica's absence (FO 93/95, Wim 93/95, USO 93, AO 94). You may want to look at slam wins by ASV, Pierce, Conchita...but I personally don't get into taking trophies from folks who've earned them. Martina and Chrissy are waxing eloquent now because their own wins and records were secure before Seles came on the scene. Notice that Tina was much less kind to Monica when she thought she had a chance to add some slam wins....
nwaike 4 years ago
@radioramarule The greatest ever is Navratilova. And while Monica is great and it is a horrible shame what happened to her, she was never winning 9 Wimbledons or even coming close to that so no she would not have overtaken Martina.
heninwarrior 1 year ago
Monica The Best EVER ..
Buxton10 4 years ago 3
Interesting that Navratilova has reached an epiphany concerning Seles since it was SHE who was complaining the most at Wimbledon in 1992, and it was SHE along with everyone else on the WTA Tour except Gabriela Sabatini who voted to NOT freeze Seles' #1 ranking. She and Monica may be good friends now, but I still don't like her...haha.
Wht4BlkNC 4 years ago
Are you aware that Martina Navratilova is the one most responsible for urging Monica out of retirement after her stabbing. She sponsored Seles' first match back -- an exhibition involving the two in Atlantic City. As said as what happened to Seles is, you can't freeze a number one ranking. The person is not number one coming back and it's not fair to the rest of the pack.
walkereb 4 years ago
@Wht4BlkNC It's a good thing she realizes that she was wrong after all. The top players saw Seles' absence as a huge opportunity, despite the horror of what happened. Nevertheless, the benefitors were Sanchez-Vicario, Graf and Martinez, not Navratilova...
juju1305 1 year ago
Navratilova should shut up, it was she who made the comments about the grunting.
Warriorroger 4 years ago
yeah but u try being put in the final of wimbledon and havibng that grunt!! and its in the passed there friends now
rockdat 4 years ago
monica is sexy. the end.
pbcervantes 4 years ago
i agree with Martina. otherwise, what we would talk about would be Seles rather than Graf...
IloveMonica4ever 4 years ago
The frustrating thing about this is that we will simply never know. Monica could have had a dip in her form, so that Steffi would have taken over again. We can argue about this until we're blue in the face - and God knows we have! :P - but in the end it's anyone's guess I'm afraid.
Godbluffer 4 years ago
I'd like to also point to the fact that Martina says "who knows?" *twice* in this clip, thereby confirming what I just wrote 20 minutes ago. It remains arguably the most agonizing "what if?" in sports history.
Godbluffer 4 years ago
i know. nobody will know what would have happened.
but i just wanna xpress the regret that many have about Monica.
IloveMonica4ever 4 years ago
Same here! I've always been a Monica-fan - and by the way, Steffi right after her - so I understand your feelings perfectly. :( Yet I think it's remarkable how we are still so upset about it after 14 years. Just look at the number of discussions between Seles-fans and Graf-fans on the internet, both claiming that their heroine is the best of all time. Both groups still are very sensitive and defensive about the issue.
Godbluffer 4 years ago
HUGE words from Martina Navratilova about Monica Seles. That's what Seles fans have been saying to Steffi fans.
mrbadd 4 years ago 3
Yes, we want affirmation for Monica at the very least.
jess4metoo 4 years ago