Dromader 802 Crash

[winsor68]

This is plane and simple pilot error...

[thalestotoso]

coitado :(

[502AT]

So basically are you saying that steep incline wingovers at low speed and near zero G's are safe provided that the plane has plenty of power on..?

Do you consider dromaders better areodynamicly than thrush and air tractors ie; shorter turn radius, more lift, slower stall speeds ect?

[Phantomx1e]

More aptly put, rather than at zero G's the stall does not occur, at zero angle of attack the stall does not occur.

If a wing is rotated 90 degrees incedence and moves through through the air only at a few mph producing very applied little G stress on the wing the wing will stall.

However, if the wing slows to only a few mph but remains streamlined to the wind with no AOA the wing will not stall if there are zero G's.

AOA is more important than G's for stalling a wing.

[AcroAirwolf]

Seems like a unwanted cross over spin. Often planes crash upside down. Here I explain why:

Check out my video-channel. You find it under the name:

Crossover spin CRASH - Umkehrtrudeln ABSTURZ - Vehicle Simulator

Another video about stall and spins I made you find under the name:

Stall and spins

Fly safe!

[boetschge]

...it somehow looks like the pilot just keeps on pushing the stick....

[unapro3]

I was at this airshow at Mt Gambier, South Australia 1998. He obviously thought he would try and make his fire bombing run a little more impressive and went a little too hard in the pullup after release. The result was he departed controlled flight at the top of his pull up i.e. stalled. Prior to the show the organisers warned all pilots to show caution as the public wouldn't notice the difference if you tried to push it a few extra feet or a few less or more knots.

[pathyskeeter]

Ha ha! Love the translation at the beginning of the news clip!

[holdzy19]

no affence but whoever is flying the dromader must be a total dickhead, There is a big sign in the dash, NO AEROBATIC MANOUVRORS

[hotspur666]

On the camel(Pezetel M-18) water bomber, it's full trim forward(it's just a lever), full power THEN you pull the dump lever. You find yourself going vertical for a second. But you instantly recover and level off. Now, if you lose power pointing at the sun above at 100 feet above ground, well this is what happen to you...other than that, this plane is the most legal fun you can have...obviously, I never lost power after a drop or I would not be telling you that!(I'd be dead like him!)

[Aeronautapobre]

yes this airplane it's so dengerous!

any fail you die!

[steweywillrocku]

im guessing the pilot died

[headgomer]

i agree dave. first of all people lets not get the 802 mixed up with a dramader. Yes the air tractor some how went into an inverted flat spin which you said is hard to recover from esp. at low altitude. the dramder was just flying wingovers, a fun manuver . the aircraft was at slow speeds at the top of the manuver but as dave said, at least a full stall does not occur.  angle of attack is the key to stalling a wing. I have stalled at 170 kts in an aerobatic airplane in a 6 g pull.

[aerobatics815]

A Stall is simply exceeding the critical angle of attack. Has nothing to do with airspeed or attitude... in fact that plane has a very high lift airfoil and he stalled negatively. and went into a neg flat spin. Very difficult to recover from that type of wing. It was a push combined with the turn that was fatal... Dave

[James1toknow]

If I'm not misstaken this is a power on stall? And AOA.

[ochoapedro49]

THAT PLANE NEVER STALLS!!

[aerotranslados]

Looks like it started the maneuver too slow (for that tried acrobat hammerhead or reverse course) and stalled getting cautch in an inverted spin ...

[upulu1]

El air tractor es maniobrista pero tiene sus limites, sabemos que la aerodinámica de las alas de este agarran poco aire, el amigo al hacer ese movimiento de elevación no tomo en cuenta el factor de mover los pedales al lado izquierdo para colear la aeronave y no pronunciar una perdida de peso del parte trasera que al hacer un movimiento muy brusco, el PZL es maniobrista por su alas absorben mayor aire y podemos apreciar que su peso es frontero y no central.

[ThePolyweave]

I dont know what all the gibberish is at the start of the video,must be some european testing his english writing skills.In america its called a flat spin.

[crazyman7000]

Thats not a Dromader thats an AT-802A Airtractor not a Dromader

[wmaxson]

omg that makes me sick.

[SuperAviatar]

Some years ago the British Gliding Association introduced negative 'G' recognition to their training, after a pilot apparently failed to recognise the difference between a stall and a negative "G' sensation, pushing through the vertical before impacting. It looks very much as though the stick was fully forward and the aircraft was in an inverted stall, unless the controls or taiplane had been damaged this was a pilot input. I have managed to crash models in this way, it looks exactly like that.

[westtexasduster]

@SuperAviatar

Most likely explanation, pilot error.

A full load dropped can pitch the plane so violently that full forward on the stick won't stop the climb, and when it equalized he probably still had the stick shoved into the hopper causing the inverted stall.

@newtntag

Not all 802's come with them.

A fire gate is designed to control the drop, not get it all out instantaneously.

If you want to see a gate that dumps ridiculously fast, check out the factory Grumman gate on an Ag-Cat.

[piloto568]

Un piloto como tantos, sòlo se diferencia por ser fanfarròn y burlarse de la desgracia agena.He piloteado muchas horas una de estas porongas voladoras y les digo que para hacer una fanfarronada como esa hay que elegir muy bien el dìa y las condiciones. Hago votos para usemos los accidentes para aprender y crecer en experiencia nunca para alardear estupidamente como en esta exibiciòn.-

[David207rc1]

@piloto568 no se si seras piloto o no pero puedo asegurarte que estos dromedarios como los llamamos tienen tal torque de helice que si aceleras mas de la cuenta para salir de una situacion comprometida se te pone en invertido sin que te des cuenta , resumiendo no ceo que pongan a ningun fanfarron a volar en tal aparato y menos jugandose la vida te lo aseguro saludos

[docrw]

they should have VG's on planes like these anyways!

[ThePolyweave]

@docrw Whats a v.g. and maybe it has v.gs already.And do v.gs save you from stupid manuvers that kill you?

[rap9206]

dumb ass

[kilzwes]

O que é um disparo de hélice?

[RafaelHerba]

@kilzwes : Na vdd o que dispara é o motor. Existem tipos de hélices que são de passo ajustável (ajusta no solo) e variável (varia o passo da hélice de dentro do avião), as pás da hélice se movem para se ajustar ao vôo. Se ocorrer algum problema na hélice e o passo for reduzido, ela não vai oferecer carga suficiente para o motor (por isso ele dispara) e tb não vai tracionar o avião, ele vai perder sustentação (estolar) como se o motor tivesse parado, se estiver voando baixo já viu né... Abs

[kilzwes]

@RafaelHerba Valeu! eu achava que era uma espécie de ruptura do eixo da hélice e ela acabaria girando em molinete com o motor ainda acelerando! Agora, será que também não aconteceu alguma coisa com as superfícies de controle? ou com algum sistema hidráulico? eu sei que o nariz baixa com a redução, mas pelo vídeo parece que o manche travou picado!! Valeu brother!

[stprimeflyer]

he didnt crash, he just landed upside down

[grumpypant]

@stprimeflyer Awe dude, you are, oh, so rude...have some compassion for his wife and kids, will ya!!!

[piloto568]

stprimeflyer @ Sos un real Hijo de puta .-

[agviator]

A wing won't stall at zero g. These circumstances between the 802 and PZL are very different.

[MrLeonzio2]

Very interesting video unfortunately it's also very sad...anyway good video.

[IC2720]

I'm very impressed with the knowledge of flight these comments have, very interesting reading, thanks.

[newtntag]

The 802 has a fire gate which is completely different than an ag gate. The load left the 802 at a much faster rate and the pilot didn't understand the pitch up comming. This demo is BS.

[matthewthiez]

i will pray for that deceased pilot tomorrow a church may he RIP. other than that great video, audio goes out when the demo pilot lands for maybe 5 sec, other than that id say 9/10. sry

[agman4360]

much like any ag-plane they must all be treated with respect loaded or unloaded as they can all bite!

[agman4360]

the aitractor crash was real bad and resulted in the sad loss of a pilot

but to the dromander pilot in this video,what a great demo of the dromander and what an awesum sound outa that engine,this is what ag-planes should sound like!! much like the 1820 bull thrush they have real engines

[tjodalv44]

The Air Tractor crashed due to a rapidly shifting CG that led to a low-level stall and inverted flat spin. While it might look like the Dromader replicated what the Air Tractor did, please note that water comes out of the hopper for much longer than the AT's. The AT had his gate completely open so the load drained faster and shifted the CG faster. The Dromader pilot did not let the gate open all the way open so the water came out slower, and the plane remained controllable.

[tjodalv44]

Also the AT is releasing more water at faster rate at a faster airspeed so the CG effects were more pronounced.

[hotspur666]

@tjodalv44 The camel water bomber let it's load out instantly in a block(it's gelled water), thus the violent CG shift to the back limits.

You add power first to insure you can power the nose down or you may flip over like the 802 who in this instance lost power at the wrong time, a non recoverable situation.

[jasong19711]

pwned!!

[olecki75]

Dromader the best !!!!

[mww88]

uhhhh not....... there are much more crashes in these then air tractors. and these are not built as strong.

[pilotodonatti]

daniel vc simplesmente se tornou um gde piloto !!! profissional ao extremo e dominando aquilo q faz!! parabens abraço beto serrana sp

[joraircraft]

Very good Pilot technic. My hats also off to this pilot.

But don't forget time to time to check the wings atachment (outer wing to center wing attach joints) for corrosion, cracks in the lugs and ovalisation of the main holes.

Check also for cracks the upper and lower fin rudder attachment and the vertical fin rear spar.

Thanks for the nice video and enjoy your flights.

[agav8r802]

I have a bit of time in an M-18. They fly like a lead sled. This guy makes a club fisted aircraft look Very Nimble. My hats off to this pilot.

Thanks for the Video.

[hotspur666]

@agav8r802 It's a lead sled when loaded like all ag planes...at least it does not need an auto pilot to keep flying like a fueler...

[agpilotgt]

Let´s please take into consideration wing design as well, Thrush, Air Tractor and PZL all have different wings, and all behave very differently, I can vouch for Thrush and Air Tractor, as I have flown them, just try and turn the Air Tractor without applying flaps on a 30+ degree ag turn, you will know what I mean. My respects to the PZL pilot in this video!

[holdzy19]

Everyone, ag planes are not designed for aerobatics, take an air tractor for example, all the models are not as stable most ag planes and they take a while to respond to the controls, you take a 502 up at 10 thousand feet,stall it and it 'll take you 5 thousand recover from it, they have little wings and if you lose control of one, it 'll take a long time to get it back. Most plane accidents occour in an ag planes is because people skylark in them, think their invincible.

[holdzy19]

The Bloke in the air tractor at the airshow,he wasn't skylarking, he came in too fast when he dropped the load. See when an ag plane dumps its load,it loses a lot of its weight and that causes the aircraft to flare up Even when your just simply flying around, when you have good airspeed, its good to climb.Same thing in this case,this bloke had a lot of airspeed and when he dumped the load,it flared up a lot and as i said, you lose an air tractor out of control, they're very difficult to recover

[hotspur666]

@holdzy19 The camel have great big wings and a huge engine, it's a powered glider...but you are right that many ag planes are total trash aerodynamically and can barely fly...see there, one have enormous fun, the other die.

[olafer22]

jaja tenes razon ! a eso le llamo yo volar para el que esta abajo.,muchos accidentes son por culpa de eso.el pobre pzl no tiene la culpa que pilotos como estos los rompan.saludos

[piloto568]

Que le pongan la tapa para incendios y lanzen 2200 lts a mediodia con 20 nudos y será la última estupidez que hagan.

[angeliusus]

Good video but At-802 is a turbine, and is not the same than the dromader.The AT.802 probably going stall because when you open the tank the plane going up(gravity)I think is a mistake of the pilot, he pull up the plane and when it goes empty it makes a dramatically ascendt. Sorry about my english, I hope you understand me.

[aronz74]

i agree. the 802 pilot just stalled it . plain and simple

[xicovisk]

show de bola danielzin!

[agcatdriver]

You're comparing a turbine Air Tractor and a recip M-18... they fly totally different.

[msimoni]

He is not comparing both aircraft. He is just showing that ag planes, when unloaded are very forgiving and manouverable machines, and brought to our attention that the AT802 probably suffered of a prop failure (overspeed). I guess Daniel has done an excelent job showing us this with a heavy Dromader!

Fico filé demais Danielzin!!!