IS IT TIME?! Go to USRevolution2 (dot com) and get your flag of the Second American Revolution. Theyre made in America and look exactly like the flag of Betsy Ross with a Roman numeral II in the center of the 13 stars. They were all over the crowd in DC on March 20th and 21st. This flag is now in all 50 states and spreading from porch to porch and theyre only $19.95 plus shipping and handling. They make great gifts for family, friends and recovering Liberals.
I believe Obama should raise taxes on the wealthy and I hope he does. They do not pay their fair share and I am sick footing the bill for corporations and the wealthiest, of which group the most fair minded (Warren Buffett) also believes they should pay higher taxes. Obama! Lower my taxes and tax the hell out of corporations and the wealthiest individuals!
Obama's candidature was achieved just with a big marketing campaign. Obama was important for people behind the scenes.
I think Ron Paul was the best candidate. His ideas got support as well as in USA as in all the world. Of course - Obama from outside of USA, still looks pretty respectable. But it's just the looks.
Hey MarketMania! Congrats! The FOOL hypperreal just proved you won the arguement. Taking cheap potshots and yelling racism is the last refuge of a defeated arguement. The only thing that truly surprises me is that we both wasted our time trying to argue with this fool. He must be employed by the govt. to hold such views. Unless, he's joking, which in that case "Good one man! You sounded so convincing! HAHAHAHA!"
His deficits for the NEXT 7 years aren't much better. CBO estimates were another $15 Trillion (Obama claims it will ONLY be $12 Trillion as they think the economy will pick up!!!) Pick up? CBO is likely OVERESTIMATING when they think the economy will hold steady. And this doesn't even include whatever becomes of health care. God only knows what that will cost.
The liberal socialists aren't gonna wake up until after the collapse. Then they will say, "My Bad.", or "It's your fault".
Are you looking up numbers or pulling them out of your ass? Something tells me a few Google searches will prove the later. 15 trillion??? That's not even in the ballpark of reality. You just discredit yourself when you make up shit like that.
It's your buddy Bush that pushed the 700 billion bank bailout, and if you care to study the Democratic Health Care plan you'll find out that it's being paid for without raising taxes or the deficit. Suck it, con. Suck it and swallow.
No. Not made up. The total purchase of toxic assets under the Geithner plan is between $12-15 Trillion. These assets are all but completely worthless. The government paid 100% of original purchase price for them. When they were placed on the market last year the market estimated their worth at 1% of OPP. This amounts to a giveaway of almost $15Trillion.
You really are behind the times and blinded by party politics.
Bush in Oct - $750 Billion in loans to major financial institutions to cover loans coming due that no one would refinance for them because no one believed the assets were worth what they claimed. Everyone knew the CDO's were worthless. If the market value of the CDO's was the true value the banks were insolvent (worth less than they owed) so no one would lend to them.
But even if they did eventually go bankrupt, the loans under Bush would have only lost about 5-10% since the banks were about 90-95% solvent. This might have cost us around $40 Billion.
Paulson Plan then decided to purchase an additional $1.5 Trillion in bank and auto stock under Obama. These were a riskier proposition for the taxpayer, since no one really knows what the stock will eventually sell for and the government doesn't run companies well. GM has now bankrupted.
None of this fixed the problem. The problem is, even if you buy their stock or refinance their loans, THEY ARE STILL INSOLVENT. They owe more than they are worth and the therefore CANNOT get out from insolvency. The toxic assets were worthless and unless they could sell them, it wouldn't ever change. So Obama under the Geithner plan just bought the assets with taxpayer money and we now have paid $15 Trillion for assets worth 1% of that.
Then Obama had the gaul to stand up and proclaim some kind of success when they paid back some of the original bridge loans and an additional 1.9 Billion in interest. How farkin nice of them to pay back what they owed!!! All we had to do was give them $15 Trillion for worthless paper for the privilege of being paid back what we never should have had to loan to them. Good GOD what corruption.
More silliness from a conservative that can't be trusted. I love it how you all are concerned about the national debt when a Democrat is in office, but when Bush was president you could give a goddamn. It's all politics with you fools. Too bad you don't think about what's good for your country, traitor.
Your figures are off by a factor of ten, dipshit. I bet your wife balances your family budget, doesn't she?
Can't trust a conservative to do what's responsible and right. That's a fact.
I am NOT a Conservative! I am a Libertarian. And I was concerned LONGGGGG before Bush. You really have GOT to stop the party politics crap hyper. This isn't about left right. Do you not understand what is on the horizon? It isn't a joke anymore. We are in serious trouble here. I really don't CARE who is to blame. You however seem to think BLAIM is your only concern. Wake up before reality slaps you in the face.
We are on VERY shaky ground right now. Drastic action has been called for a LONG time ago. It is at the point now of being emergency. Perhaps it was already beyond repair. But Obama isn't even attempting to fix this. He has just decided to go down in flames and has conceded that he can't handle it making it all the more painful and certain. He has given up on the Republic.
It's truly amazing that you aren't aware of the numbers. It is NOT off by a factore of 10!!! I wish it was. Do your research. There is NO WAY the money paid for the CDO's will be worth anything CLOSE to what the Treasury paid for them. It is just a ploy and a shell game to buy time. In 3 to 5 years (maybe much sooner) we are GAURANTEED to see hyperinflation, large drops in production, and high unemployment. You cannot increase the money supply 700% and not expect skyrocketing inflation.
How convenient: dire predictions only now that conservatives are out of power. Amazing how many cons jumped ship as "liberarian" once they wisely saw it nose diving. You're right this is a mess. Obama is forced to drop some money to get us out of another crisis brought to us by conservative actions that had nothing to do with the welfare of the country; everything to do with greed and lust for power. The only socialist aspect about it is we are bailing out bad business by the cons.
Libertarian is code for a failed conservative. Don't worry, your secret is not safe with me.
You're the one who is filling up this entire comment section trying to place blame on Obama. Isn't that petty politics? You're full of crap, and your figures are so unreal that they're simply hysterical.
Take a pill and let the adults do the work that the "libertarians" are too scared to do. You're sounding like a chick who cries about a getting flat tire.
Wake the fuck up dude. IT ISN'T ABOUT BLAME!!! It is about reality. Are you so much more of a Democrat than you are an AMERICAN that you can't open your eyes until AFTER the country is destroyed?
I am not blaming OBAMA. This has been building for 80 years!!!!! But it is policies LIKE this that have been the problem. You can place blame on Bush or even Jesus Christ for all I care. But at least be honest about the situation and what is needed!!!!
You are a complete buffoon. You are so blinded by party politics and have so little understanding of what is going on that it is sad. You not only don't know what's happened, you aren't educated enough to know what is coming?
And by the way, NONE of this includes the cost of the health care plan. And yes health care plan will be paid for with increases taxes and increases deficits. Cost is between $1.5 and $3 Trillion. Where do you think it will be paid for? Are we gonna have doctors farting out healthcare? Another idiot that thinks they can get something for nothing.
"Mania" is the perfect name for you, considering you havent said anything sane so far. I'm reminded of the story of CHICKEN LITTLE when I read your comments. You're scared, and I understand that, these are troubling times. But if you're going to just bitch at the people who are trying to fix it, maybe you should just go into the other room and have a glass of wine while they work on the problem.
In other words, you're just a useless hysterical distraction. You add nothing to the conversation
He isn't trying to fix it. How is giving away 15T going to fix it? How is increasing the money supply 7-fold going to fix it? How is doing the same thing that got us in this mess in the first place gonna fix it? You seem to think we can just continue along doing the same nutty socialist thing that got us here and we can continue as usual forever. You are so much in denial it is scary.
Sounds like you're on the rag, so take a Midol, put in a Tampax, and have a glass of wine and it'll be all cool in a few months. Don't worry your pretty little head about it, sugar. It's under control.
What an idiot. How in the hell did we manage to breed sooooo many socialists? How did we let sooooo many freeloaders into the country? It was a nice country while it lasted.
America: love it or leave it. Make sure you let the door hit you on the ass on the way out, MarketMania. Oh, and good luck finding a decent country to live in that doesn't have universal health care. lol
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You're out of touch. You think Americans are scared of socialism? How well did the saying "socialism" work during the presidential campaign, hmm? More Democrats elected and a sizable victory for Obama. Great strategy!
A recent poll found that 76% of American support a government run public option in a health care, otherwise known as SOCIALISM.
You don't get it, do you? Conservatives are loathed because of Bush - even by conservatives! You guys blew it. Now STFU take your (socialist) medicine.
Before it has hatched? What do you call the government bailout of the worst business failures by the treasury (fed by your taxes)? And, yes, though it may have played out by Obama it was put into motion by the "capitalist" bush who profited from it immensely. Guess it's time to start counting your "socialist eggs", maniac.
So true. It's as if once the republicans started going down the toilet, they all started saying "...well, actually I'm libertarian" so they could take the whole damaged ship in their wrong direction. Spineless which makes whiny Ron paul the perfect poster boy.
The Democrats AND the Republicans are both guilty of allowing violations of Federal laws regarding illegal immigration and entitlements for illegal aliens. Obama says that 25 million Americans are without healthcare but he includes an estimated (by their count) 12 million illegals in this number. Personally, I beleive the number of illegals is far higher.
Nice to see this "Fair and Balanced" report with six people lined up against Obama. What's so fair about not allowing someone to respond to your criticism? That's Fox news for ya.
None of the Tea Baggers have seen their taxes go up and so far President Obama is coming nowhere near the ridiculous spend George W Bush did. Grow up people! Stop bitching just to bitch.
You are truly deluding yourself if you think Obama and the Congress are not raising taxes. Mark my words, you will see this country fall much further financially and it is this entitlement bullshit that is going to do it.
If History is any gauge, Obama will most likely lower taxes and lower the deficit. Look it up, since Reagan the deficit has increased over 500% under Republican presidents, only lowering under Clinton.
Conservatives incompetently run the government when they're elected. It's just a fact now. Maybe that's why Sarah Palin quit - to spare us more deficit spending and hypocritical bullshit.
Hmmm.... so that doesn't explain why Republicans went on a historic spending spree under Bush. I guess a Republican congress only tries to balance the budget under Democratic presidents, huh? Maybe that's why during the Bush years we had more Republican members of congress indicted for stealing taxpayer money and giving lobbyists sweetheart deals than during any president in HISTORY.
Can't trust Republicans to run the store without stealing - EVER!
As an Independant, I have to acknowledge the FACT that Reagan's cutting taxes gave us 12 years of unprecedented federal revenue and fiscal prosperity for the general population.
Anytime you take Govt. out of the equation, the result is better because the market is the best arbiter.
If history is any gauge, Obama will end up like Jimmy Carter. A one term failure. You can't SPEND your way into prosperity. Only a fool would try it or sanction it.
Independent is code for "Republican in hiding". Don't worry, your secret isn't safe with me.
Here's a news flash, Robert. The market created this situation in the first place. Only an idiot (that would be you) would look to them for the solution. The government gave them enough rope during the Bush years and they hung our economy with it. Them's the facts.
Your ideology has failed, so who are you to judge what's right?
The data is also only up until 2000. They stopped putting it out after 2000 because too many dumbasses were miscontruing it as a chastizement of a countries healthcare capability and not as a report on inequality of care and inequality of costs.
Personally my main concern is quality of care and can I get in to see him before I'm dead!!! It would be nice if everyone paid their fair share too (like the poor--and the countries that mooch off our pharmaceutical subsidies). But I hardly think we should shoot ourselves in the foot and end up with a MESS like Canada and Sweden just because they are deadbeats.
"While universally applicable, these reforms do not constitute a blueprint or a manifesto for action...Nevertheless, there are no reasons why any country − rich or poor − should wait"
Blah Blah Blah
Well if equality of care and equality of cost are your goals then move to Sweden, Canada, France or Zimbabwe!!!!
The purpose of the report isn't so much looking at the quality, although it is obvious from their data our quality is faaaarrrrrrr superior. The object of the report is to judge countries based on inequality of care. It is meant to draw attention to countries that don't provide care to some groups. Ours goes in the opposite direction. We provide the poor care even though they don't pay for it. AND WE GET DOCKED FOR THAT?
off us & don't pay a penny of it. They therefore have lower drug costs. You really should grow a brain Dumbassarock & learn to actually read. The goal of the whole report is to insure universal care.
In other words, we get docked for not being SOCIALIST because everyone isn't charged for healthcare equally. Our poor don't have to pay, others pay for them and we get ranked 37 as a result. We also get docked for ACTUALLY paying to develop drugs while the Swedes only pay for cost to produce.
Note Lowest Cost as % of income is industrialized bracket.
I think I can do my own calculation as to what is important. I hardly think having everyone pay the same amount is my main concern. We also pay all the money for drug research and the socialized countries leech
Quality, Training, Accuracy of Care 1 Timeliness of Care 1 Availibility 3 (Universal Access) Overall Money Spent 1 Research 1 Availability of Drugs 1 Lowest Cost as % of income 1 Lifestyle of Population 32 Life Expectancy 24 Equitability of Medical Cost 98 Equitability of Drug Cost 105 Direct Control 79
Faux News says the tea party protesters that they backed, helped organize and cheered on are smart? Golly, thats meaningful.
Interesting how fast peoples opinions change on health care and other issues as the rhetoric stirs up the uneducated. Everyone complains about health care until it becomes a bs political football, now its the greatest in the world. Please. Stop arguing against (and for) something you dont know a damn thing about so you can say MY TEAMS WINNING! It's crap.
OMFG!!! I am laughing soooo hard at you now. Did you actually take the time to READ the report. Or would that only be something a SMART person would do?
Trying reading it rather than just looking at a spreadsheet. You are such a goob.
We will see if you are still laughing when one of your loved ones gets some horrible illness and your insurance doesn't cut it... We are number 37 and I don't give a shit if you believe it or not. I am through wasting my time on some 44 year old dude that is such a P*&%$ that he will leave hateful comments on someones profile simply because he can't stand the fact that someone else may have a different opinion than his own. I bet you still live with your mom... grow up already.
It's no wonder that a socialist would read a socialist document and then claim we aren't socialist enough. You are a socialist and thats fine. But if you want socialism move to Canada or France.
Whatever you want to think dude.. At your age behaving the way you do.. I can see why I would be a threat to you just by voicing my opinion. It is hilarious that you would label me a socialist and then accuse me of making claims I have not made. I guess you don't realize that my comments can easily be read and I have claimed nothing of the sort. I'm sure you are happy being #37 a guy like you could never aspire to be #1. BTW What is your mom making you for breakfast this morning?
Quality, Timeliness is the best in the world by the same report you claimed put us at 37. Even the per capita cost of our income is better and our poor have better access than the socialist systems you are claiming we need to emulate. It is true that we need to somehow remove the burden from the middle class that is paying for the poor's medical care. Encting socialist health care will obviously not fix the problem since the socialists are worse off than our system is.
Look it up. This is a widely known fact.. if you are going to try and argue something you really ought to know what you are talking about.. especially when you are going to hurl insults.. otherwise you are just making an ass out of yourself.
Axelrod is to Obama what Goebbels was to Hitler. You can't believe a thing any of them say; they're destroying our economy and I'm not convinced that this illegal alien won the elction; we've been hoodwinked by a marxist muslim
The USA has the ... "BEST SPECIALISTS" ... but our Health Care System stinks and is ranked as the Low 37th on a World Scale !! It's like saying "THE USA WON THE MOST GOLD MEDALS IN THE OLYMPICS ... SO THE ENTIRE AMERICAN POPULATION IS MADE OF TOP ATHLETES !!
When in reality we have an overweight & sick ...(cancer~heart diseases~diabetic)... population, compared to other nations. Don't buy into the Right-Wing propaganda.
Then you must be Dumbassarock. There is little to believe here that is best for the country. Can you give even ONE example? And where do you get this 37th crap?
I guess you dont buy gs or use electricty jewy....lol or youjust have no idea wat is going on in wasington...either way the poor are going to be the most affected by th largest tax hike in history
Fox News is hysterical. These guys are absolutely apoplectic. It's called an election guys, and y'all lost it. It's supposed to taste like a sh-t taco. And no, taxes aren't going up on the poor.
Do you have a freaking clue? Guess not. The election changed faces and increased spending. The assault on our liberties continues, the wars continue, the spending has increased, healthcare will become a nightmare and the taxes will increase for everyone. We did not lose the election; America did and has been losing it for a long time now.
The middle class are the one's who will be hurt the most by Obama's policies. The middle class our oblivious of it now but will realize it in the near future when higher taxes and a dollar that does not go far have adverse effects on thier lifestyle.
19, 1796. Technically speaking, it was not an address, but an open letter to the public published in the form of a speech. Washington's fellow Americans gave it the title of "Farewell Address" to recognize it as the President's valedictory to public service for the new republic.
Starting with his 1792 draft, Washington rewrote the text to better fit the problems that were emerging in the new political landscape.
To David Axelrod: The President tax's cut was only $20.00 in my pay check WOW ! that was alot of money ! when we bailout billions on big banks and Aig.
A DOLLAR AINT A DOLLAR ANYMORE! WORTHLESS UNTIED STATE MONEY HAS BECOME !
Wrong Jewy. The loans in October were bridge loans to renew old loans coming due for the big financial institutions. The banks were at least 90-95% solvent so even if they went under the worst we could do was lose 5-10% of the October loans.
The buyouts under the Paulsen plan were a completely different story. The Geithner Plan is basically a $15 Trillion giveaway. Obama just purchased $15 Trillion of worthless assets that the market knew was only worth 1% of that. Big difference!!!!
You lost the election. Overthrowing the government when you lose the election is insane. Did you consider the the republicans became marginalized and unpopular due to advocating the overthrow of the government as reasonable response?
Poeple got checks in the mail? WTF The only check I get in the mail is an UNEMPLOYMENT CHECK. Trade your tea bags in for guns. It's time to take back what is rightfuly ours. Our Freedom.
Who said anything about shoting cops ? Oh wait, you did. Not me. I think we should start with lawyers,since 90% of the politicians are lawyers by trade. Maybe you can make money passing out your card at riots, when people get their heads busted. Idiot, go back to chaseing ambulances. Wouldn't want to get your suit dirty.
Interesting question; leaving morality aside. To murder a non government employed citizen would be a loss of workforce productivity, lost wages, lost consumption, lost tax revenue, reduced tax base, grossly unprofitable.
A cop? While he consumes and earns a wage; these activities are enabled through payment of tax revenues, every $1 he spends is a $1.50 someone else doesn't. Not to mention his 'work' is unproductive to say the least.
When, in the history of the United States, has the country -ever- had to go borrowing money from another country, before today? Only once, and that was from France, when we first got started! The deficit spending cycle started in the late '70's, was addressed and slightend, but never fully stopped.
What kills me is that there is no information coming out about the savings and cuts that are going on that will reduce the deficit over time. Our media, both right and left, like to keep this argument going for ratings and political reasons.
The cut the new Presidential Helicopter fleet. The cut the F-22 fighter program, we don't need them. They canceled a contract for some dam ship because they people making it couldn't get it to float. They are now working on all the billions lost or stolen in Iraq & Afghan. You really need to watch CSPAN once in a while to find out what is really going on in Wash. Media isn't going to tell you.
I watch CSPAN religiously. There is hardly a reduction in deficits, nor will there be over time. Even the Republicans increased deficits. Obama's deficits are through the roof and put Bush's deficits to shame.
Bush deficit averaged $320 Billion/year during an unprecedented 2 wars. The wars cost $878 Billion. Bush also borrowed about $460 B/year from SSI.
Final deficit for Bush was his highest.
$406 B + $640 B (SSI) - $450 B (int of previous debt) = about $580 B his contribution.
Obama is so far beyond this it pales in comparison. Amazing that is even possible.
Obama 1st year deficit:
$3.9 T + $768 B (SSI) - $500 B (int of previos debt) = $4.17 T
However, Obama under the Geithner plan has also used the Treasury to purchase an additional $15 Trillion in worthless assets. This is an off-budget item and will saddle us with a whopping $19.2 T in future debt. The market estimated the true value of these toxic assets at 1% of that and are likely worthless.
To make matters worse (like they could be) the supposed "national debt" does NOT include the money owed to SSI. The supposed national debt is at $11.2 T and will rise to $15T under current conditions this year. But we ALSO owe $39T to SSI. There will only be a $400B surplus per year for next two years on average. After that the government will have to start paying it back.
We currently have a TRUE deficit of $76T and Obama will increase that to around $100T in 8 years.
Definition of insanity: doing the same thing & expecting a different result (or calling it CHANGE). We're not only doing the same thing that got us here, we have ACCELERATED at an amazing pace. Soon we will pay the piper for our past excesses. This is a last grasp at continuing the status quo in Washington. It is only making matters much worse. Collapse is inevitable. This is a delaying tactic. They know it the public doesn't yet. Wonder what government will result after revolution?
I just love all you gloom and doomers, such a ray of sunshine aren't you? And so fixated on the numbers, without addressing the cause or looking at any solutions, just yelling "the house is on fire, the house is on fire!!" Listen, you need to sit down and shut the fuck up, unless you want to grab a shovel and help put the fucking fire out. You can't compare the cost of 2 wars and a GLOBAL FINANCIAL MELT DOWN and expect smaller numbers numb nuts!!
the last guy. Is this guy for fucking real ? "You can't have a trillion dollar spending plan without a matching tax increase because the alternative witch is deficit spending is actually worse" The point He's missing is that The Deficit spending is part of what Got us into this mess ! An out of control Fed & government that is unchecked ! This is what many of the tea party protesters are angry about ! As many people learned too late, You shouldn't spend Money you don't have. wake up dammit !
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IS IT TIME?! Go to USRevolution2 (dot com) and get your flag of the Second American Revolution. Theyre made in America and look exactly like the flag of Betsy Ross with a Roman numeral II in the center of the 13 stars. They were all over the crowd in DC on March 20th and 21st. This flag is now in all 50 states and spreading from porch to porch and theyre only $19.95 plus shipping and handling. They make great gifts for family, friends and recovering Liberals.
usrevolution2 1 year ago
I believe Obama should raise taxes on the wealthy and I hope he does. They do not pay their fair share and I am sick footing the bill for corporations and the wealthiest, of which group the most fair minded (Warren Buffett) also believes they should pay higher taxes. Obama! Lower my taxes and tax the hell out of corporations and the wealthiest individuals!
callouschristian 2 years ago
Obama's candidature was achieved just with a big marketing campaign. Obama was important for people behind the scenes.
I think Ron Paul was the best candidate. His ideas got support as well as in USA as in all the world. Of course - Obama from outside of USA, still looks pretty respectable. But it's just the looks.
Gachello 2 years ago
racists? Where did that come from. Didn't think race was an issue with ANY ONE here.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Hey MarketMania! Congrats! The FOOL hypperreal just proved you won the arguement. Taking cheap potshots and yelling racism is the last refuge of a defeated arguement. The only thing that truly surprises me is that we both wasted our time trying to argue with this fool. He must be employed by the govt. to hold such views. Unless, he's joking, which in that case "Good one man! You sounded so convincing! HAHAHAHA!"
robert7232 2 years ago
What a bunch of racists.
burntonion05 2 years ago
His deficits for the NEXT 7 years aren't much better. CBO estimates were another $15 Trillion (Obama claims it will ONLY be $12 Trillion as they think the economy will pick up!!!) Pick up? CBO is likely OVERESTIMATING when they think the economy will hold steady. And this doesn't even include whatever becomes of health care. God only knows what that will cost.
The liberal socialists aren't gonna wake up until after the collapse. Then they will say, "My Bad.", or "It's your fault".
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
And oh my God!!! Did hyperrreal just say that Obama hasn't come anywhere NEAR GW Bush's spending? Are you insane?
True deficit under Bush was ~580Billion
Obama's is $4.17 Trillion + $15 Trillion for the Geithner Plan!!!! $19 Trillion dollars total blows Bush away!!!!!
Even if you subtract off the Paulsen buyouts ($1.5 T) you still end up with $2.67 Trillion + $15 Trillion giveaway.
Good lord grow a brain hyper!!!
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Are you looking up numbers or pulling them out of your ass? Something tells me a few Google searches will prove the later. 15 trillion??? That's not even in the ballpark of reality. You just discredit yourself when you make up shit like that.
It's your buddy Bush that pushed the 700 billion bank bailout, and if you care to study the Democratic Health Care plan you'll find out that it's being paid for without raising taxes or the deficit. Suck it, con. Suck it and swallow.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
No. Not made up. The total purchase of toxic assets under the Geithner plan is between $12-15 Trillion. These assets are all but completely worthless. The government paid 100% of original purchase price for them. When they were placed on the market last year the market estimated their worth at 1% of OPP. This amounts to a giveaway of almost $15Trillion.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
You really are behind the times and blinded by party politics.
Bush in Oct - $750 Billion in loans to major financial institutions to cover loans coming due that no one would refinance for them because no one believed the assets were worth what they claimed. Everyone knew the CDO's were worthless. If the market value of the CDO's was the true value the banks were insolvent (worth less than they owed) so no one would lend to them.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
But even if they did eventually go bankrupt, the loans under Bush would have only lost about 5-10% since the banks were about 90-95% solvent. This might have cost us around $40 Billion.
Paulson Plan then decided to purchase an additional $1.5 Trillion in bank and auto stock under Obama. These were a riskier proposition for the taxpayer, since no one really knows what the stock will eventually sell for and the government doesn't run companies well. GM has now bankrupted.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
None of this fixed the problem. The problem is, even if you buy their stock or refinance their loans, THEY ARE STILL INSOLVENT. They owe more than they are worth and the therefore CANNOT get out from insolvency. The toxic assets were worthless and unless they could sell them, it wouldn't ever change. So Obama under the Geithner plan just bought the assets with taxpayer money and we now have paid $15 Trillion for assets worth 1% of that.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Then Obama had the gaul to stand up and proclaim some kind of success when they paid back some of the original bridge loans and an additional 1.9 Billion in interest. How farkin nice of them to pay back what they owed!!! All we had to do was give them $15 Trillion for worthless paper for the privilege of being paid back what we never should have had to loan to them. Good GOD what corruption.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
More silliness from a conservative that can't be trusted. I love it how you all are concerned about the national debt when a Democrat is in office, but when Bush was president you could give a goddamn. It's all politics with you fools. Too bad you don't think about what's good for your country, traitor.
Your figures are off by a factor of ten, dipshit. I bet your wife balances your family budget, doesn't she?
Can't trust a conservative to do what's responsible and right. That's a fact.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
I am NOT a Conservative! I am a Libertarian. And I was concerned LONGGGGG before Bush. You really have GOT to stop the party politics crap hyper. This isn't about left right. Do you not understand what is on the horizon? It isn't a joke anymore. We are in serious trouble here. I really don't CARE who is to blame. You however seem to think BLAIM is your only concern. Wake up before reality slaps you in the face.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
We are on VERY shaky ground right now. Drastic action has been called for a LONG time ago. It is at the point now of being emergency. Perhaps it was already beyond repair. But Obama isn't even attempting to fix this. He has just decided to go down in flames and has conceded that he can't handle it making it all the more painful and certain. He has given up on the Republic.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
It's truly amazing that you aren't aware of the numbers. It is NOT off by a factore of 10!!! I wish it was. Do your research. There is NO WAY the money paid for the CDO's will be worth anything CLOSE to what the Treasury paid for them. It is just a ploy and a shell game to buy time. In 3 to 5 years (maybe much sooner) we are GAURANTEED to see hyperinflation, large drops in production, and high unemployment. You cannot increase the money supply 700% and not expect skyrocketing inflation.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
How convenient: dire predictions only now that conservatives are out of power. Amazing how many cons jumped ship as "liberarian" once they wisely saw it nose diving. You're right this is a mess. Obama is forced to drop some money to get us out of another crisis brought to us by conservative actions that had nothing to do with the welfare of the country; everything to do with greed and lust for power. The only socialist aspect about it is we are bailing out bad business by the cons.
callouschristian 2 years ago
Libertarian is code for a failed conservative. Don't worry, your secret is not safe with me.
You're the one who is filling up this entire comment section trying to place blame on Obama. Isn't that petty politics? You're full of crap, and your figures are so unreal that they're simply hysterical.
Take a pill and let the adults do the work that the "libertarians" are too scared to do. You're sounding like a chick who cries about a getting flat tire.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
Wake the fuck up dude. IT ISN'T ABOUT BLAME!!! It is about reality. Are you so much more of a Democrat than you are an AMERICAN that you can't open your eyes until AFTER the country is destroyed?
I am not blaming OBAMA. This has been building for 80 years!!!!! But it is policies LIKE this that have been the problem. You can place blame on Bush or even Jesus Christ for all I care. But at least be honest about the situation and what is needed!!!!
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
You are a complete buffoon. You are so blinded by party politics and have so little understanding of what is going on that it is sad. You not only don't know what's happened, you aren't educated enough to know what is coming?
You have already taken the pill.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
And by the way, NONE of this includes the cost of the health care plan. And yes health care plan will be paid for with increases taxes and increases deficits. Cost is between $1.5 and $3 Trillion. Where do you think it will be paid for? Are we gonna have doctors farting out healthcare? Another idiot that thinks they can get something for nothing.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
"Mania" is the perfect name for you, considering you havent said anything sane so far. I'm reminded of the story of CHICKEN LITTLE when I read your comments. You're scared, and I understand that, these are troubling times. But if you're going to just bitch at the people who are trying to fix it, maybe you should just go into the other room and have a glass of wine while they work on the problem.
In other words, you're just a useless hysterical distraction. You add nothing to the conversation
hyperrreal 2 years ago
He isn't trying to fix it. How is giving away 15T going to fix it? How is increasing the money supply 7-fold going to fix it? How is doing the same thing that got us in this mess in the first place gonna fix it? You seem to think we can just continue along doing the same nutty socialist thing that got us here and we can continue as usual forever. You are so much in denial it is scary.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
TheMarketMania: "OMG!!! IT'S 15 KAJILLION DOLLARZZZZ!!!one!!1"
Sounds like you're on the rag, so take a Midol, put in a Tampax, and have a glass of wine and it'll be all cool in a few months. Don't worry your pretty little head about it, sugar. It's under control.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
LMAO. The TRUE numbers are so bad even a socialist can't believe them. What a predicament. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.
Take the time to educate yourself hyperreal. Apparently once you DO confirm the numbers it will at least open you eyes and surprise even you.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
OMG!!!! REALLLzY>??
Dude, give it a rest. An incompetent idiot like Bush or McCain isn't in charge. Be grateful for that at least.
Now shut your cock holster and go to sleep. It's late and I gotta go to work tomorrow.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
What an idiot. How in the hell did we manage to breed sooooo many socialists? How did we let sooooo many freeloaders into the country? It was a nice country while it lasted.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
America: love it or leave it. Make sure you let the door hit you on the ass on the way out, MarketMania. Oh, and good luck finding a decent country to live in that doesn't have universal health care. lol
hyperrreal 2 years ago
This one doesn't have socialized medicine yet. Looks like it may not. Don't count your socialism before it has hatched.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You're out of touch. You think Americans are scared of socialism? How well did the saying "socialism" work during the presidential campaign, hmm? More Democrats elected and a sizable victory for Obama. Great strategy!
A recent poll found that 76% of American support a government run public option in a health care, otherwise known as SOCIALISM.
You don't get it, do you? Conservatives are loathed because of Bush - even by conservatives! You guys blew it. Now STFU take your (socialist) medicine.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
Before it has hatched? What do you call the government bailout of the worst business failures by the treasury (fed by your taxes)? And, yes, though it may have played out by Obama it was put into motion by the "capitalist" bush who profited from it immensely. Guess it's time to start counting your "socialist eggs", maniac.
callouschristian 2 years ago
So true. It's as if once the republicans started going down the toilet, they all started saying "...well, actually I'm libertarian" so they could take the whole damaged ship in their wrong direction. Spineless which makes whiny Ron paul the perfect poster boy.
callouschristian 2 years ago
The Democrats AND the Republicans are both guilty of allowing violations of Federal laws regarding illegal immigration and entitlements for illegal aliens. Obama says that 25 million Americans are without healthcare but he includes an estimated (by their count) 12 million illegals in this number. Personally, I beleive the number of illegals is far higher.
robert7232 2 years ago
Nice to see this "Fair and Balanced" report with six people lined up against Obama. What's so fair about not allowing someone to respond to your criticism? That's Fox news for ya.
None of the Tea Baggers have seen their taxes go up and so far President Obama is coming nowhere near the ridiculous spend George W Bush did. Grow up people! Stop bitching just to bitch.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
You are truly deluding yourself if you think Obama and the Congress are not raising taxes. Mark my words, you will see this country fall much further financially and it is this entitlement bullshit that is going to do it.
robert7232 2 years ago
If History is any gauge, Obama will most likely lower taxes and lower the deficit. Look it up, since Reagan the deficit has increased over 500% under Republican presidents, only lowering under Clinton.
Conservatives incompetently run the government when they're elected. It's just a fact now. Maybe that's why Sarah Palin quit - to spare us more deficit spending and hypocritical bullshit.
hyperrreal 2 years ago
Odd that Congress has the power of the purse and Congress was Republican under Clinton. hmmmm????
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
And your numbers are made up and delusional hyperreal.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Hmmm.... so that doesn't explain why Republicans went on a historic spending spree under Bush. I guess a Republican congress only tries to balance the budget under Democratic presidents, huh? Maybe that's why during the Bush years we had more Republican members of congress indicted for stealing taxpayer money and giving lobbyists sweetheart deals than during any president in HISTORY.
Can't trust Republicans to run the store without stealing - EVER!
hyperrreal 2 years ago
As an Independant, I have to acknowledge the FACT that Reagan's cutting taxes gave us 12 years of unprecedented federal revenue and fiscal prosperity for the general population.
Anytime you take Govt. out of the equation, the result is better because the market is the best arbiter.
If history is any gauge, Obama will end up like Jimmy Carter. A one term failure. You can't SPEND your way into prosperity. Only a fool would try it or sanction it.
robert7232 2 years ago
Independent is code for "Republican in hiding". Don't worry, your secret isn't safe with me.
Here's a news flash, Robert. The market created this situation in the first place. Only an idiot (that would be you) would look to them for the solution. The government gave them enough rope during the Bush years and they hung our economy with it. Them's the facts.
Your ideology has failed, so who are you to judge what's right?
hyperrreal 2 years ago
The data is also only up until 2000. They stopped putting it out after 2000 because too many dumbasses were miscontruing it as a chastizement of a countries healthcare capability and not as a report on inequality of care and inequality of costs.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Personally my main concern is quality of care and can I get in to see him before I'm dead!!! It would be nice if everyone paid their fair share too (like the poor--and the countries that mooch off our pharmaceutical subsidies). But I hardly think we should shoot ourselves in the foot and end up with a MESS like Canada and Sweden just because they are deadbeats.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
"While universally applicable, these reforms do not constitute a blueprint or a manifesto for action...Nevertheless, there are no reasons why any country − rich or poor − should wait"
Blah Blah Blah
Well if equality of care and equality of cost are your goals then move to Sweden, Canada, France or Zimbabwe!!!!
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
The purpose of the report isn't so much looking at the quality, although it is obvious from their data our quality is faaaarrrrrrr superior. The object of the report is to judge countries based on inequality of care. It is meant to draw attention to countries that don't provide care to some groups. Ours goes in the opposite direction. We provide the poor care even though they don't pay for it. AND WE GET DOCKED FOR THAT?
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
off us & don't pay a penny of it. They therefore have lower drug costs. You really should grow a brain Dumbassarock & learn to actually read. The goal of the whole report is to insure universal care.
In other words, we get docked for not being SOCIALIST because everyone isn't charged for healthcare equally. Our poor don't have to pay, others pay for them and we get ranked 37 as a result. We also get docked for ACTUALLY paying to develop drugs while the Swedes only pay for cost to produce.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Overall Goal 37 (According to their priority)
Goals by priority are stated
1 Equal Cost, Social justice, Social Control
2 Socially relevant delivery
3 Primary Lifestyle Reforms
4 Leadership Reform vs Laissez faire
Note Lowest Cost as % of income is industrialized bracket.
I think I can do my own calculation as to what is important. I hardly think having everyone pay the same amount is my main concern. We also pay all the money for drug research and the socialized countries leech
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Faux News says the tea party protesters that they backed, helped organize and cheered on are smart? Golly, thats meaningful.
Interesting how fast peoples opinions change on health care and other issues as the rhetoric stirs up the uneducated. Everyone complains about health care until it becomes a bs political football, now its the greatest in the world. Please. Stop arguing against (and for) something you dont know a damn thing about so you can say MY TEAMS WINNING! It's crap.
spamdango 2 years ago
OMFG!!! I am laughing soooo hard at you now. Did you actually take the time to READ the report. Or would that only be something a SMART person would do?
Trying reading it rather than just looking at a spreadsheet. You are such a goob.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
We will see if you are still laughing when one of your loved ones gets some horrible illness and your insurance doesn't cut it... We are number 37 and I don't give a shit if you believe it or not. I am through wasting my time on some 44 year old dude that is such a P*&%$ that he will leave hateful comments on someones profile simply because he can't stand the fact that someone else may have a different opinion than his own. I bet you still live with your mom... grow up already.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
lol. Did you actually read it?
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
It's no wonder that a socialist would read a socialist document and then claim we aren't socialist enough. You are a socialist and thats fine. But if you want socialism move to Canada or France.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Whatever you want to think dude.. At your age behaving the way you do.. I can see why I would be a threat to you just by voicing my opinion. It is hilarious that you would label me a socialist and then accuse me of making claims I have not made. I guess you don't realize that my comments can easily be read and I have claimed nothing of the sort. I'm sure you are happy being #37 a guy like you could never aspire to be #1. BTW What is your mom making you for breakfast this morning?
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
Quality, Timeliness is the best in the world by the same report you claimed put us at 37. Even the per capita cost of our income is better and our poor have better access than the socialist systems you are claiming we need to emulate. It is true that we need to somehow remove the burden from the middle class that is paying for the poor's medical care. Encting socialist health care will obviously not fix the problem since the socialists are worse off than our system is.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
There is more than one report that says we are number 37.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
Look it up where? You didn't tell me where you got it from.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
All you have to do is google it.. the information is everywhere.. try the WHO World Health Organization.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
LOL. Smartassawhip is a moron. We are #1 in Healthcare.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Look it up. This is a widely known fact.. if you are going to try and argue something you really ought to know what you are talking about.. especially when you are going to hurl insults.. otherwise you are just making an ass out of yourself.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.
bbburton 2 years ago
Axelrod is to Obama what Goebbels was to Hitler. You can't believe a thing any of them say; they're destroying our economy and I'm not convinced that this illegal alien won the elction; we've been hoodwinked by a marxist muslim
hollywood7 2 years ago
The USA has the ... "BEST SPECIALISTS" ... but our Health Care System stinks and is ranked as the Low 37th on a World Scale !! It's like saying "THE USA WON THE MOST GOLD MEDALS IN THE OLYMPICS ... SO THE ENTIRE AMERICAN POPULATION IS MADE OF TOP ATHLETES !!
When in reality we have an overweight & sick ...(cancer~heart diseases~diabetic)... population, compared to other nations. Don't buy into the Right-Wing propaganda.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
Do you buy into the Left-wing propoganda???
bananaman411 2 years ago
I buy into whatever I believe is best for my country at the time.. and in my opinion being number 37 is not good enough.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
Then you must be Dumbassarock. There is little to believe here that is best for the country. Can you give even ONE example? And where do you get this 37th crap?
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Oh look! Pictures of Palins New Republican party...all 10,000 of the deluded losers.Lol
gobee53 2 years ago
Name calling is the first sign you've lost the argument;
To open your argument with name calling gives you away as a leftie :)
mctarmac10 2 years ago
Obama is a fraud
WORLDBESTHOPE 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Obama's the Antichrist announced by IL Lottery.
I got death threats for spreading this.
NamchuWangden 2 years ago
I guess you dont buy gs or use electricty jewy....lol or youjust have no idea wat is going on in wasington...either way the poor are going to be the most affected by th largest tax hike in history
DieZoDiAc 2 years ago 3
Fox News is hysterical. These guys are absolutely apoplectic. It's called an election guys, and y'all lost it. It's supposed to taste like a sh-t taco. And no, taxes aren't going up on the poor.
jewy 2 years ago
Do you have a freaking clue? Guess not. The election changed faces and increased spending. The assault on our liberties continues, the wars continue, the spending has increased, healthcare will become a nightmare and the taxes will increase for everyone. We did not lose the election; America did and has been losing it for a long time now.
You think Cap and Trade will be free? Moron.
ThndersRage 2 years ago
The middle class are the one's who will be hurt the most by Obama's policies. The middle class our oblivious of it now but will realize it in the near future when higher taxes and a dollar that does not go far have adverse effects on thier lifestyle.
leftwingwacko 2 years ago
George Washington's Farewell Address
19, 1796. Technically speaking, it was not an address, but an open letter to the public published in the form of a speech. Washington's fellow Americans gave it the title of "Farewell Address" to recognize it as the President's valedictory to public service for the new republic.
Starting with his 1792 draft, Washington rewrote the text to better fit the problems that were emerging in the new political landscape.
BrendettNC 2 years ago
To David Axelrod: The President tax's cut was only $20.00 in my pay check WOW ! that was alot of money ! when we bailout billions on big banks and Aig.
A DOLLAR AINT A DOLLAR ANYMORE! WORTHLESS UNTIED STATE MONEY HAS BECOME !
BrendettNC 2 years ago
George W. Bush bailed out the banks and AIG.
jewy 2 years ago 2
Wrong Jewy. The loans in October were bridge loans to renew old loans coming due for the big financial institutions. The banks were at least 90-95% solvent so even if they went under the worst we could do was lose 5-10% of the October loans.
The buyouts under the Paulsen plan were a completely different story. The Geithner Plan is basically a $15 Trillion giveaway. Obama just purchased $15 Trillion of worthless assets that the market knew was only worth 1% of that. Big difference!!!!
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
I hear the war drums of revolution, Government is out of control and no longer listens to us anymore!!!
newBelGum 2 years ago 2
You lost the election. Overthrowing the government when you lose the election is insane. Did you consider the the republicans became marginalized and unpopular due to advocating the overthrow of the government as reasonable response?
andrewh23 2 years ago
Poeple got checks in the mail? WTF The only check I get in the mail is an UNEMPLOYMENT CHECK. Trade your tea bags in for guns. It's time to take back what is rightfuly ours. Our Freedom.
nailerfx 2 years ago 3
Take back what from who? How is you shooting a cop going to change things? The economy will recover because you murder a cop?
andrewh23 2 years ago
Who said anything about shoting cops ? Oh wait, you did. Not me. I think we should start with lawyers,since 90% of the politicians are lawyers by trade. Maybe you can make money passing out your card at riots, when people get their heads busted. Idiot, go back to chaseing ambulances. Wouldn't want to get your suit dirty.
nailerfx 2 years ago
Interesting question; leaving morality aside. To murder a non government employed citizen would be a loss of workforce productivity, lost wages, lost consumption, lost tax revenue, reduced tax base, grossly unprofitable.
A cop? While he consumes and earns a wage; these activities are enabled through payment of tax revenues, every $1 he spends is a $1.50 someone else doesn't. Not to mention his 'work' is unproductive to say the least.
I could go on but the limit approaches.
mctarmac10 2 years ago 2
When, in the history of the United States, has the country -ever- had to go borrowing money from another country, before today? Only once, and that was from France, when we first got started! The deficit spending cycle started in the late '70's, was addressed and slightend, but never fully stopped.
SFsc616171 2 years ago
Of course they are right. In spite of what the media and our government thinks, the American people aren't blind or stupid.
imstillworkin 2 years ago
What kills me is that there is no information coming out about the savings and cuts that are going on that will reduce the deficit over time. Our media, both right and left, like to keep this argument going for ratings and political reasons.
This is exactly why I don't watch media news.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
What savings and cuts are we not aware of?
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
The cut the new Presidential Helicopter fleet. The cut the F-22 fighter program, we don't need them. They canceled a contract for some dam ship because they people making it couldn't get it to float. They are now working on all the billions lost or stolen in Iraq & Afghan. You really need to watch CSPAN once in a while to find out what is really going on in Wash. Media isn't going to tell you.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
I watch CSPAN religiously. There is hardly a reduction in deficits, nor will there be over time. Even the Republicans increased deficits. Obama's deficits are through the roof and put Bush's deficits to shame.
Bush deficit averaged $320 Billion/year during an unprecedented 2 wars. The wars cost $878 Billion. Bush also borrowed about $460 B/year from SSI.
Final deficit for Bush was his highest.
$406 B + $640 B (SSI) - $450 B (int of previous debt) = about $580 B his contribution.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Obama is so far beyond this it pales in comparison. Amazing that is even possible.
Obama 1st year deficit:
$3.9 T + $768 B (SSI) - $500 B (int of previos debt) = $4.17 T
However, Obama under the Geithner plan has also used the Treasury to purchase an additional $15 Trillion in worthless assets. This is an off-budget item and will saddle us with a whopping $19.2 T in future debt. The market estimated the true value of these toxic assets at 1% of that and are likely worthless.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
To make matters worse (like they could be) the supposed "national debt" does NOT include the money owed to SSI. The supposed national debt is at $11.2 T and will rise to $15T under current conditions this year. But we ALSO owe $39T to SSI. There will only be a $400B surplus per year for next two years on average. After that the government will have to start paying it back.
We currently have a TRUE deficit of $76T and Obama will increase that to around $100T in 8 years.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Definition of insanity: doing the same thing & expecting a different result (or calling it CHANGE). We're not only doing the same thing that got us here, we have ACCELERATED at an amazing pace. Soon we will pay the piper for our past excesses. This is a last grasp at continuing the status quo in Washington. It is only making matters much worse. Collapse is inevitable. This is a delaying tactic. They know it the public doesn't yet. Wonder what government will result after revolution?
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
Also note that Congress is responsible for spending. So it is really more appropriate to assign the deficits to the party in control of the House.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
correction: "True debt" not "True deficit"
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
And trust me, I watch CSPAN religiously and it is OBVIOUS which party is responsible for the majority of the spending.
TheMarketMania 2 years ago
I just love all you gloom and doomers, such a ray of sunshine aren't you? And so fixated on the numbers, without addressing the cause or looking at any solutions, just yelling "the house is on fire, the house is on fire!!" Listen, you need to sit down and shut the fuck up, unless you want to grab a shovel and help put the fucking fire out. You can't compare the cost of 2 wars and a GLOBAL FINANCIAL MELT DOWN and expect smaller numbers numb nuts!!
Boomer1949 2 years ago
Yes the Tea Party Goers are right, why else would the government and media try so hard to slander and misrepresent them ?
UrineDenial 2 years ago 12
the last guy. Is this guy for fucking real ? "You can't have a trillion dollar spending plan without a matching tax increase because the alternative witch is deficit spending is actually worse" The point He's missing is that The Deficit spending is part of what Got us into this mess ! An out of control Fed & government that is unchecked ! This is what many of the tea party protesters are angry about ! As many people learned too late, You shouldn't spend Money you don't have. wake up dammit !
wingnut4427 2 years ago 9