Host Desecration: a Respnse to the Wafer Debate

[RondelayAOK]

This is a hate crime. She should be prosecuted.

[TheLizardLass]

@RondelayAOK --- writing text over a still image of a communion wafer is a hate crime? seriously? hate crimes are crimes that are actually committed against people only because they are part of a group. and if this is a hate crime, then the speakers of every catholic sermon I've ever heard should be on trial right now, the writers of every catholic pamphlet on homosexuality should be rotting in jail, and the pope should get the death penalty. . . . except that saying something isn't a crime.

[TheLizardLass]

@RondelayAOK -- the (usually baseless) charge of "host desecration" was used for over a thousand years to JUSTIFY hate crimes (actual murders, pogrums, and tortures) committed by catholics against other groups; jews, protestants, cathars, atheists . . . . . . learn some history, and stop being a hypocrite.

[MisterNickOtine]

@CrossTheGrigori And if it is Christ's DNA then we could splice his genes into our future children and become gods. THINK OF THE POWER!!!!

Do you think if someone slipped psych meds into the communion wine that christians would become symptom free? I do think some of them are mental, but barring those, the rest are just dumb don't you think? Who knows maybe a little meds would work wonders.

[RondelayAOK]

Desecrating the Holy Eucharistic is blasphemous and a hate crime. Stop the hating.

[MisterNickOtine]

@RondelayAOK ONLY IF YOU STOP STEPPING ON MY INVISIBLE UNICORN!!! OH NO YOU JUST KILLED HER! THAT WAS MY HOLY MOTHER. MURDERER! NOW YOU SHALL WRITHE IN BOILING PUDDING FOREVERMORE.

[fenechc]

...to continue, those Protestant Martyrs that were burned at the Stake or were beheaded or faced the Guillotine for not accepting the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle-Ages.?

[fenechc]

It's a big lie, the teaching that the Host or Wafer becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ during Mass. The Roman Catholic Church has alot of explaining to do. What about those

[fenechc]

If anyone wants to learn anything about the Catholic Church, they should read the book by Ralph Woodrow, Babylon Mystery Religion. It has some real hot stuff.

[glizag]

All the Roman Catholic churches dogmas are either idiotic or false, what is next on their agenda, maybe they will come out with that the Pope is the way, the truth, and the life.

People should get out of this corrupt system and renounce the joker in a dress that they call the Pope.

[glizag]

. If just prior to the consecration of the mass, someone added arsenic to the elements of bread and wine, would the poison within those elements be changed and made harmless after the consecration was finished, and would the priest and the people now partake of these changed substances, if not why not?

[MisterNickOtine]

@glizag oh the poison would be totally neutralized haven't you read Mark 16:18. i've been adding it to my communion wafers for years and God has spared me everytime. : )

[glizag]

@MisterNickOtine Add it yourself AND ~~ see does this apply to today & the RCC mass ~ get back to me when U have tried it HEHE ~~ If not Ill remember you as U lay in your casket

[verabridget71]

You do try to come across as an intelligent person, but I can see you don't really understand transubstantiation. However, to mock or desecrate something that several million Catholics believe to be true is truly evil. How would you like it if a Christian or anyone for that matter, broke in to a Jewish Temple and ripped up the Torah? Why not enter a church and tear a crucifix from the wall and break it. You have a lot to learn and shouldn't try to be an authority on something you know nothi

[TheLizardLass]

@verabridget71 --- then I guess the Catholic priest who explained it to me back when I thought I might be getting married to a Catholic didn't really understand it either; if I ever see him again I'll be sure to let him know. Also, comparing wanton destruction of property to writing text over a still from a video? They didn't break into the church & if the priest didn't state that non-Catholics are not to take communion then they weren't even being dishonest. As for evil? Protecting pedophiles.

[GBluArch]

Lizlass, you are not very smart.  That's okay, because your sexiness makes up for it. The bottom line is all of the desecration videos are very disrepectful. It isn't good human behavior.

[TheLizardLass]

@GBluArch ----- wow, you really set me straight on that one.  By the way, were Pogrums good human behaviour? I'll let you look that one up for yourself sunshine, but I will point out that they were often justified with accusations of "host desecration"

The KKK is an old and established organization with many traditions, whose members have deeply held personal beliefs which they back up with biblical references: should I show respect for those beliefs and traditions?

[edfromlasvegas]

you got the doctrine wrong. I am a practicing Catholic apologist, and you said that the blessed bread and wine are physically transformed into the literal body and literal blood of jesus Christ. Now, Jesus, is he human or divine. We believe He is part of the Trinity, and thus Divine. And since He is Divine, then when that bread and wine is transubstanciated into the True Presence of the Body and Blood of Jesus, it is His DIVINE BODY and DIVINE BlOOD, not human but Divine.

[TheLizardLass]

@edfromlasvegas ---- ummm, I didn't say whether it was human or divine, I just said that it was "literal" (as in it actually is is body in your doctrine, whereas in almost every other denomination of Christianity it is seen as symbolic) I may not have been as specific as you would have liked, but I wasn't "wrong".

[INxJESUSxCHRIST]

However difficult it may be to you, it was professor Zachary Myers that started the

recent Host Desecration wave. On July 24, 2008, Zachary Myers, in his post, "The Great Desecration," wrote that he had pierced through the "goddamned cracker" with a rusty nail.

Have you asked yourself why they do this ?

[INxJESUSxCHRIST]

At 04:20 you say "the myth of Host desecration" ?

It's not a myth, it's still happening today as i did in the Middle Ages

[TheLizardLass]

@INxJESUSxCHRIST ---- so you believe that people (is ti still the Jews, or is there some new enemy?) are breaking into churches, stealing consecrated waters, and then stabbing them with pins, nailing them to pieces of wood, and boiling them in oil? Do you also believe that the cracker bleeds when they stab it?

"it's still happening today as i did in the Middle Ages"

oh, so back in the middle ages it was YOU who was running around desecrating the host! How silly of you, it's just a cracker.

[GraveyardGhost464]

You look like "Vampira" from plan 9 From Outer Space.....

[mistereveready]

cultist angry that their rituals aren't held sacred, how silly. even if the cracker was ground into powder and fed to earth worms, so wtf? if it was really an important cracker it'd be able to take care of itself. so fuck the eucharist & cults too. i wonder how many catholics see how silly their ritual is after the all the fuss over crackers and the lack of power those things really have.

[TheUnmaskedMagician]

good video

[GeminiPrimeX]

Well, Factvsreligion has done similar things to Scientology and Islam. No one in the community seemed to mind that as far as I can recall. My objection is that it seemed so pointless and childish. It was something I would expect from one of my students (I teach teenagers) to do, but hardly a grown person. At least in the past there has been a good point to be had. Here I am waiting for that point. But it it´s not worth the response it gets. Maybe we are just bored now that VenomfangX is gone.

[pornoopel]

thx for the history-lesson! :)

[Xalloran]

Did they have a legal right to take the Eucharist? Sure, why the hell not. But was it morally justifiable? This is my sticking point. The official doctrine of the RCC is that the Eucharist is for Catholics only. Unless all 4 were ignorant of this fact, this just seems like a dick move to me, requiring them to deceptively impersonate Catholics and to basically steal something that Catholics explicitly don't want them to have. I don't find that funny or easily justifiable.

[TheLizardLass]

I make a similar point in my sidebar -- none of them (to my knowledge) has addressed the question of whether they knew that non-Catholics are not supposed to take communion; however, even if they knew, I don't believe it would justify the type of comment that my video is intended as a response to. If they knew does it make their actions dishonest? Sure. Equivalent to a kkk lynch mob? Absolutely not.

[Xalloran]

I had meant my comment as a reply to this part of the text in your sidebar:

"To me that would create a distinction between silly prank and malicious intention -- but either way, and whether I would have done it myself or approve, they had a right to do it."

Commenting on "whether they had a right" in particular.

Just hard to fit with the comment limit :P Otherwise agreed.

[Xalloran]

Just as a side observation, I find it interesting how many atheists in this whole mess refer to the act as "stealing the Eucharist" so nonchalantly. I mean...I think that morals are subjective and context based, but there are strong reasons for not stealing most of the time, aren't there? Why are people so willing to imply "Well, they were *just* stealing." Or do they think "it's not really stealing" and they're just being hyperbolic for comedic effect?

[peepnklown]

It seems the big atheist channels had nothing better to do than create drama from nothing.

[curiouskev81]

ok wayyyy too many points for me to debate there and I'm not saying I disagree with all of it, but again troubled teenagers who don't know where to turn are not exclusive to the Catholic religion. I feel for a troubled teen who has been raised without God and doesn't know where to go for spiritual growth in a troubled world that increasingly teaches them that everything that is just is. And your sarcasm toward trans-subst. via the teddy bear story was duly noted.

[TheLizardLass]

Right, 'cause I said it was exclusive to Catholics. Every time I address one of your points you act like what I'm saying is a stand-alone comment rather than a direct response to you: and I was not being sarcastic about the bear, I see it as equivalent. "Emotional Distress" is caused by both, but the acts are not equivalent to torture and murder, and it is no greater than the emotional distress I have shown to be caused by a doctrine that you challenged me to demonstrate causes harm.

[curiouskev81]

yeah and I'm saying that if you're saying that is harm then I could as easily say IMHO teaching atheism is harmful as it deprives a child or teen of relationship with God. My point being from way back is that's a subjective standard of harm, unworkable. The sarcasm was insinuating that you were only entitled to think it as you were three.

I'm not acting like anything I've taken your argument as a whole, seems like you might be getting a bit irritated with it so I'll make this my last post.

[TheLizardLass]

Mainly I think we've just boiled the argument down to a point that we will never agree on, and that we can't progress from, so I feel like we were both just repeating ourselves, and will have to agree to disagree. But I do thank you for the interaction :)

[gph61]

curiouskev81: "I feel for a troubled teen who has been raised without God"

It truly is amazing how people can think so differently and yet be on the same planet. I think raising kids in a religion is child abuse.

[gph61]

I guess I should explain my child abuse statement because it's an uncommon opinion, maybe it's just mine.

I think religious or atheist indoctrination of children is child abuse. Nobody knows the truth, if people claim to know they are being dishonest or they are delusional.

(cont)

[gph61]

I think instilling dishonest or delusional ideas in children about things they simply can not comprehend is abusive and will one day be recognized as such. Parents that truly love their children, above all else, will let them decide in their own time.

[gph61]

Damn, I just re-read what I wrote and I think I need to further clarify.  It sounds like I'm saying raise them agnostic, I'm not.

I'm saying raise them as nothing. When they ask just shrug and say "I don't know, that's for you to decide"

I was raised like that as were my 2 adult kids, one deist and one atheist.

[TheLizardLass]

if I have children I intend to raise them to think for themselves; and even though I was raised in a very moderate and relatively accepting version of Christianity I do think that the indoctrination was extremely harmful to me -- I hate to think what it would have been like in a more fundamentalist church, because I barely survived the one i was in

[TastingAshes]

@gph61 agreed.

[FactVsReligion]

crackergate has gone beyond the realms on incredulity.  I really though people were past this eucharist insanity.

[TheLizardLass]

I can see people being annoyed, just not as annoyed as so many people seem to have gotten -- thanks for watching my video, I always enjoy yours :)

[GuyInvincible111]

Best video I've seen today (just subscribed to your channel). I was born in, and spent my childhood in, Argentina. My parents left at the start of the dirty war. There's a good example of what can happen to a country when it's ruled by an ultramontane Catholic military elite.

[TheLizardLass]

thanks! I'll look up Argentina specifically as part of the research for my follow-up video :)

[TastingAshes]

You know, I am just now getting how intelligent you are and how capable of serious discussion you are as well...It occurs to me to ask, how on earth did you ever find my drivel entertaining?? Don't get me wrong I am still flattered lol just curious...youre all like, small and stuff...

Oh, I listed you on my channel btw hope it gets you more traffic hon Peace!

[TheLizardLass]

Because your drivel is some funny shit :) thanks for promoting me, you are awesome!

[TheLizardLass]

and btw, what is "you're all small and stuff" supposed to mean? lol. you're such a dude.

[TastingAshes]

Embarrassing typo FTW! That was meant to say "You're all SMART and stuff"

:)

Guess I made my point better than I thought heh

[TheLizardLass]

typos are fantastic, I think they make the world go round :)

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

As an atheist and former Catholic, my feelings on this whole thing are that it doesn't bother me and I really don't care... but they should have been prepared for the backlash and accepted it. It's like picking a fight and then saying "I didn't mean it." I think any kind of backpedaling on their part is a mistake, and they would have done more for their credibility to stand by that video and say, "Big deal, but we don't care how you feel."

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

When I was Catholic, I remember stories the priest told about how serious desecrating the host/eucharist was. I would agree it is just a "cracker"... to make fun of it may have been in poor taste and horrific to Christians, but Laura probably should've been prepared for that. I suppose my point is simply that if someone "picks a fight", he or she should be prepared to take it to completion. That said, if I were them, I absolutely wouldn't say sorry.

[TheLizardLass]

good points.

[dmwalker24]

And the mass murder you point out surrounding host desecration is just the tiniest portion of catholic repression, torture, murder, genocide, etc etc etc. If not for childhood indoctrination I suspect it would be viewed much differently. What would you call a secular organization that systematically abused children, tortured and burned 'heretics', and was complicit with the holocaust? I don't want to disrespect good people but I think they should be asked to think about these things.

[TheLizardLass]

I agree: if you belong to an organization, and it's doing something immoral, then your obligation is either to speak out against it and possibly try to change it from within, or to leave that organization.

[oojamaflipper]

a fair assessment with some great insight, imo

well done

[TheLizardLass]

thank you. that means a lot coming form someone who, as far as I can tell, has fantastic insight himself :)

[MistressArte]

For a god that isn't into Pagan worship he sure adopted their style of worship. To have idolatry in such a way like that shows how much their religion is based on total nonsense.

[curiouskev81]

Oops sorry about all the posts it wasn't showing up when I posted :)

[TheLizardLass]

No problem, I've done it too :) And although we disagree, I want you to know I'm enjoying the debate -- thanks for keeping it civil :)

[curiouskev81]

well there's one thing we do agree on!! :)

[curiouskev81]

well i've posted 3 responses but they haven't shown up and I'm losing patience with re-typing them. My point which is valid is that you are taking the historical and linking it to the current based on two superficial facts: 1. a real or perceived stealing of the host, and 2. an angry response by Catholics. Laura did something bold and "hilarious" to piss people off knowing that it would have this effect. When people get pissed off it's not then fair to equate them with murderers.

[carlcartman]

I just don't get it. Any and all blasphemy is a good thing. Some Atheists apparently have a hint of their religious upbringing in them. I've enjoyed eevrything FVR has done.

[TheOuroborosWyrm]

Believe it or not, for some of us on the irreligious side of things this has relatively little to with emotions or taboos. In fact, the some of the most emotional reactions came from the FvR et al, and who don't seem to enjoy being criticized. It's simply a matter of principle, about boundaries and what it means to be secularist.

[TheOuroborosWyrm]

Furthermore, who cares what the Catholic Church wants or doesn't want? Doing exactly the opposite for the sake of it is contrarianism, not free thought. Iconoclasm and desecration is what other religions do to each other, not secularists. There's a word for it, sectarianism. Is that what we are, another sect? Read your Hitchens again and get back to me. And check out SK's follow-up. Thanks for the vid, I look forward to hearing more from you.

[TheLizardLass]

Where did I advocate doing the opposite "just for the sake of it"? I respond the way my brain tells me to respond, and my brain tells me that this particular doctrine is dangerous, based on historical evidence. My brain tells me that some of the comments I read made me uneasy because they echoed the rhetoric that was used to justify mass murders. Because some videos and comments openly compared what FVR did to the actions committed by Murderers and torturers.

[TheLizardLass]

I'm not trying to sound like I disagree with everything you say -- I appreciate your comments, and I'm enjoying this discussion. But when you open with a "believe it or not" that seems to have missed all the qualifiers I put in, and then accuse me of being contrary for the sake of it rather than asking about my reasoning, it makes it hard to keep the discussion relevant and not descend into defensiveness or counter-attacks.

[TheLizardLass]

Although I appreciate your point, those aren't the comments or responses I was addressing -- as I specifically stated, I'm talking about the comments that dealt with anger over Laura's actions as they might affect the Catholic psyche. That's all. Given that I barely kept it under 11 minutes I don't think I could have managed to address the other issues in this video! Besides, they have already been addressed in the videos I linked to, so I chose to add something new and of interest to me.

[TheLizardLass]

As far as Laura's comments go, most of them had been voted into invisibility before I had a chance to read them -- but whatever her reaction it has little or nothing to do with the specific topic of my video.

[QCreyton]

unless they're removed you can still read the comments by clicking reply and then just hitting discard

[TheLizardLass]

thanks, I could never figure out how to view them -- sometimes I'm lacking in the common sense :)

[BornWithoutReligion]

Really excellent and well researched video. I hope you make a follow up video with more information on current practices of punishing host desecrators in Catholic countries like you talked about.

I'm working on my own more light-hearted response to FvR at the moment, which I hope you enjoy once I get it up.

[TheLizardLass]

I'll look forward to it -- and I'll work on my follow-up as well :)

[CousinoMacul]

How come I never get credit for doing this first? :-P

watch?v=sPx3R3gkMeY

The history of "Host Desecration" is one of many blights on the Unholy Catholic Church. Let's see if this latest altar boy sex scandal has any effect on the Vatican. :-(

[TheLizardLass]

loved it :) and it's now linked in the description -- show these new-comers how it's done!

[TheLizardLass]

you should post it as a video response to something in this debate: although I'm sure that would bring you all kinds of grief!

[CousinoMacul]

I can handle the grief! :-) I put it as a response to dpr's video.

[curiouskev81]

Just as you may feel atheism is a part of you and your make up, others like me feel that our faith in God and Jesus is an inseperable part of our make up. For us, there is nothing more sacred that you could mock. I'm not declaring a belief in trans- substantiation but I'm declaring a right of those who do believe in it to a certain degree of respect, which they in turn owe to people like you regardless of your belief.

[TheLizardLass]

While I understand your objections to what was done (I was Christian until I was about 21, and a theist until I was 25 -- and I remember my own outrage when an ex-Christian and another girl {both Pagan, both my friends at the time} partook in communion that they did not believe in) I cannot abide the defense of a doctrine that the RCC spent hundreds of years trying to suppress and declaring as heresy up until they realized it could be used to libel the Jews and embraced it for that reason.

[TheLizardLass]

And there is nothing sacred about Atheism, at least not to me. I discarded my beliefs because not only did I see no evidence for them, but they were doing nothing for me, providing me no joy or comfort, or any of the reasons other theists cite for maintaining their beliefs. If you don't agree with my beliefs on anything feel free to tell me so; your opinion of me will have no bearing on those beliefs, although evidence you are able to provide may.

[curiouskev81]

I say the comparison is not apt not because the Catholic Church may have used the doctrine with alterior motives in the past, but because you're taking something that happened long ago and on the basis of superficial similarities, equating the two as if anger at Laura's actions is somehow related to the torture and execution of jews 1000 years or more ago. I could draw on any # of superficial similarities between events in the past and something that happens today and claim to be insightful

[TheLizardLass]

A thousand years or more? try less than 500 years for the ones at the end of the Middle Ages (the period that I have already studied extensively; anything more recent is outside my field, and therefore I didn't cite it, but my current ignorance does not mean the practice stopped) -- I'm currently researching a follow-up video that will address the history and present of host desecration (and its penalties) more fully.

[curiouskev81]

Ok out of my whole argument you just picked out the totally unsubstantial fact that I misquoted the date by 500 years and addressed that. My point remains valid, people get justifiable angry when they are mocked and that is what Laura did. Comparing it to a practice of killing and torturing 500 years ago based on the linkage that in both situations there was a real or perceived stealing of the host and people got mad doesn't hold up.

[TheLizardLass]

No, that wasn't my only point -- it was the only point that fit in a single comment box. And more than doubling the length of time when you're claiming that historical distance is part of what creates the irrelevancy you perceive, is significant. The fact that some commenters used the term "host desecration", which has historical significance is also a link. So is the fact that some have compared FVR's actions to the actions of lynch mobs.

Anger, yes, but there is an appropriate form.

[TheLizardLass]

Mixed in with the comments I just alluded to there are also comments expressing more rational anger -- and those aren't the comments this video was addressing. I am talking about a specific vein or variety of comment that equates what FVR did to an act of violence, and that is ridiculous -- I guess that's unclear in the video, and I thank you for bringing that to my attention -- I'll add another annotation to clarify my point.

[curiouskev81]

yeah well you're gonna find extremists in every religion or belief everytime. I don't believe it warrants this kind of general and tenuous equation. As a lawyer and for the same reasons, I don't feel it stands up on its own merits.  I say this to avoid my arguments being perceived as a faith based assessment and to try and add some secular support.

[TheLizardLass]

I'm sorry but I don't see a general equation -- as I have stated repeatedly (and have now added annotations to address) it is specifically the comments that equate FVR to a terrorist or murderer, and the ones that address "host desecration" in an extremely angry or violent way I'm addressing. they may be few, but they are significant, and they have been "liked" and agreed with repeatedly. Nowhere do I claim that it's the extremist view is the majority view, but it is there in varying degrees.

[TheLizardLass]

I also have to ask. If it is someone's heartfelt belief, religious or otherwise, that a pile of rotting animal carcasses on their front lawn has to be left there, and that removing those animals would somehow cause harm, do we have to respect the fact that they believe it? Even though it could spread disease, do we have to leave them there?

Is the psychological harm that church religious doctrine causes also irrelevant, and does it not count the way "desecration" does as emotional harm?

[curiouskev81]

No obviously not re: the animals but IMHO you are comparing apples and oranges. As I'm sure you know, in Canada under the law you are free to your religious belief unless it harms others. the harm that you are citing in the Church doctrine is too subjective a standard, because they believe in trans-subst. that is harmful to others? Today, not 500 years ago? People welcome Jesus as akin to a part of their family, now if you mock a member of someone's family you're gonna get a visceral reaction

[TheLizardLass]

Watch CousinoMacul's video that I linked at the bottom of my sidebar: consider the psychological damage to an adolescent who is terrified they will go to hell for eternity if their faith is not perfect. Consider how that young person can't even mull over their doubts privately, but instead has to abstain from a public ritual that everyone else in their community partakes in. I'd say that's more damaging than what Laura did, because it's the real fear and isolation of a real human. Even (cont)

[TheLizardLass]

if the wafer really were Jesus -- he's GOD. He may choose not to stop people from messing with the wafer, but he bloody well has the power to stop them if he wants to. What power do children indoctrinated into fear have? His story isn't unique, not by a long shot. Doctrines like this are harmful to the people who hold them, and the ferver they are intended to promote is harmful to society.

Really, I equate what Laura did to the time when I was three and my cousins threatened to feed my

[TheLizardLass]

(cont) teddy bear to the dog. Was it a dick move? Yeah, it was. Was I really upset? Yeah, I was. I really believed that bear was alive, that it could hear and feel things, and that I was my friend (and I had an excuse for believing it because i was three). But was what they did torture? Even if they had given the bear to the dog, would that have been as bad as if they had done something to harm a person? Does the perception I would have had of it change reality?

[curiouskev81]

Sorry went to bed it was 3am in Ottawa.

I find specific hateful and threatening comments all the time from atheists toward any person having any sort of faith. I don't start making comparisons to any of the murderous and even genocidal movements which have been committed for secularism. People using religion or other movements to commit atrocities is certainly nothing new. If people believe in trans-subst. then it would be an act of violence to them, hence why it's so fun for Laura to mock

[curiouskev81]

I misquoted the time period but that is obviously unsubstantial to my argument. My point remains that you can't just equate events based on the common linkage that in both there was a real or perceived stealing of the host and in both cases people got angry. If Laura's gonna do something that bold and "hilarious" she has to accept the consequences that people are going to be angry, there's no reason to stir up more fear and intolerance by saying that the two situations are related.

[TheLizardLass]

Incidentally the same fervent belief has, I know, caused Catholic priests in modern South America to be killed in attempts to "rescue" the Host during times of war and or violence against the RCC -- and the deaths of the Catholic faithful over this are no less significant than the deaths of Jews or Atheists would be.

[curiouskev81]

I don't feel the particular need to tell you whether or not I agree with your beliefs, it doesn't affect me what you believe in. That being said, I feel that it is important in today's anything goes world to try and maintain a certain level of respect for people and their dearest beliefs whether rationally held or not. People gathering as a community to worship their creator is at the least harmless. Laura should probably mind her own business and find something more important to occupy her time

[TheLizardLass]

If she had caused any disruption whatsoever while in the church I would agree with you. If she had formally submitted her video to Catholics rather than to her youtube subscribers (who are mostly Atheists, or else some form of masochists) then I would agree with you -- that would have been disrespectful. But writing a comment next to the video image of a wafer, threatening that you will eat it which is what you are supposed to do anyway is not harmful.

[TheLizardLass]

Do you know what Catholics believe happens if Laura eats the wafer without true faith? They believe that she will be damned to hell for eternity; that's why non Catholics are not to take the communion, because it would mean that they had committed a mortal sin, and possibly could not be saved even with conversion. Her "threat" to eat the wafer as it is intended to be eaten is a threat against herself. That's why I find it so ironic, and as I said, I think irony is comic.

[curiouskev81]

Comparisons to the dark ages are less than apt.  Just because that may have been something that occured during that time period in history does not have any link to the justified angry reactions of people when their deepest held beliefs are mocked by people like "Laura". People whether Catholic, Protestand, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, whatever should respect others' beliefs, look within themselves instead of picking others and their beliefs apart.

[TheLizardLass]

Many people are capable of looking at both themselves AND others -- and many of us do.

[curiouskev81]

"Sitting out" during communion is not a huge deal alot of people do it, I did it when I used to go it wasn't some singling out ritual, I still do it when I go for Christmas mass or w/e. Like you said you can get a blessing still, I dunno might be different some places but my old Church was inclusive, a gathering place of warmth and caring for everyone who went there. I'm not a fan of organized religion but hey to each their own, some people need that to connect to God, let them do it in peace.

[TheLizardLass]

They did let them do it in peace, they did nothing to disrupt the service: Laura just took a picture of her wafer before she ate it, and then wrote words over top of the image.