You say that once you are saved you can go out and sin freely.How sad that is.The more I hear this message from you I see just how much people cant understand Gods word.How sad that is.When coming to Christ one PUTS OFF THE OLD AND PUTS ON THE NEW and to say God will not finish the work he started in you makes him a liar.Philippians1:6 How many times does a person have to get saved? to stay saved?
If you are already saved, and theres nothing you can do to lose your salvation, then there is no consequence for sin. You might not like how that sounds, but thats the logical conclusion. Another thing to consider, most of Paul's epistles were written to saved believers. If that's the case, then why does Paul spend so much time writing to them on avoiding sin? Doesn't Paul know that there is no consequence to sin? Of course he does, thats why he tells them....
...tells them that if they continue to sin, they will lose their inheritance. In fact, Paul even says this "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Why would Paul even consider the fact of being disqualified if that were impossible?
@Mkvine To say that theres no consequence for sin the way you put it is telling me you dont understand Gods Righteousness at all. If you think once you get saved and thats all you gotta do thats a false salvation.You just cannot understand Gods simple grace can you?Paul says atleast 14 times God Forbid.What you fail to understand is salvation and a persons walk AFTER they get saved are two very different things.
I think I didn't explain myself clearly enough. When I say that there is “no consequence for sin,” I am speaking in the context of salvation, not in the ordinary sense. So the question remains, is our salvation affected when we “sin deliberately?” Yes or No. If not, then why does Paul warn Christians against certain sins, saying that if they commit these, they will lose their inheritance (heaven)?
@Mkvine When your child looks at you and outright does just what you told him NOT to do.Do you dis-own him,Hate him.Kick him out of the house?No,YOU correct him do you not?Why is that different with you and God?Romans 8:14-17 we are adopted into Gods family through Christ Jesus.Its clear in Romans Gods love can NEVER be seperated from us.He loves us and its not based on what we do.Its what we do when offered the Gift of salvation.Why get saved and not live for him?
When your child burns your house down, murders your wife, kills his brothers and sisters, robs you of all your money, of course you would kick him out of the house! We are talking about serious sins here, and Paul even lists what kind of sins would disinherit you from heaven.
@Mkvine So based on these sins does it change the fact hes still my blood?Do I still not love this child?Oh I would be mad but doesnt change the FACT hes my blood.I could disinherit this child as well.Doesnt mean we are no longer father son does it?You fail to understand Gods grace.Think about this,Are saved people going out to kill,rape and blow things up?These are not saved people.
Not once did I ever say that he is no longer a son. What is said was that this *disobedient* son can lose his inheritance (heaven) for committing grave sin, just like a disobedient son can go to jail for the rest of his life for murdering your wife, killing your children, burning your house down, etc. Your underlying premise is that saved people will automatically be good, that is not true, that why I posted Paul's own example (1 Cor. 9:27). Read that.
The good thing is that even though we committed all these heinous sins, God is willing to forgive us if we repent. Hence, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And that's precisely why we have him as mediator between us and God (1 Tim 2:5), so that he can intercede for us when we sin and repent.
@Mkvine Paul is clear on one thing and he gives over 15 times in the NT that he is CHIEF SINNER of all.Yet Pauls message is clear.Saved by grace.Nothing of yourselves least a man boast.Eph2:8-9. Paul teaches that we are under GRACE not the law seeing no man is justified by the law,Gal2:16, Romans 8:1,Who can condem me if I am in Christ Jesus?So salvation is saved if you dont do that or this?thats a WORKS salvation not a grace salvation.Pauls clear on that.
I agree that we are saved by Grace, the problem is when we reject God's grace. We do that when we commit serious sin and thereby lose our inheritance (heaven).
I don't think you are reading what I am writing. For the third time now, I never ONCE said that they are no longer your sons, or that they are no longer your blood, etc. So please commiting the straw-man fallacy. What I did say was that they lose their inheritance (heaven), and Paul makes that very clear.
@Mkvine “Are saved people going out to kill rape and blow things up? These are not saved people.” Then why is Paul warning saved people about not doing these very things if it were impossible for them to do? It would be superfluous for him to warn them if he knew that was an impossibility.
No its not, At 6:30 of your video you are wrong.Read Romans 8:14-17.This adoption is forever.What sin isnt covered by the Blood of Christ?At 9:30 of your video this is a lie on your part.You did a very good part till the 6 min part of the video.After the last 6 min of this video you blew your testimony.How sad that is.Show me where its written SALVATION IS LOST IF YOU..............
Also, consider the following passage "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God" (Hebrew 10:26-27).
@Mkvine When you rightly divide the word of God You will see that OSAS isnt a false doctrine.I could fill your channel up with Grace verses.Thats not my point.Hebrews isnt written to the church so by you useing that verse its WAY out of text.By the way,So you know That passage 10:26 is clear.If you study.To know the truth and reject it.Than theres no more sacrifice.We are saved by GRACE and nothing more.Salvation cant be lost,Rewards can.
Regarding Hebrews, its debatable if he wrote to Jewish Christians or non-Jewish Christians, thats all besides the point. The point is what he says, "For if we go on sinning deliberately AFTER receiving the knowledge of the TRUTH, there NO LONGER remains a sacrifice for sins.." Hebrews 10:26. What's interesting is that they author said this to "Brothers" who have "confidence" in the "blood of Jesus" (Heb 10:19).
@Mkvine I am told the book of Hebrews is (BY MY Instructors) is written to the saved Jews going through the Tribulation.A person in a backslidden state will go on sinning deliberately reguardless of his being saved.Do I justify him,No I do not.Nor do I say his salvation is lost.Thats Gods job.2Cor5:10This is how I was taught,Look at 1Cor5:5.This is a back slidden person.We all know people like this.
You made an interesting admission, you just said that the book of Hebrews is written to SAVED Jews. What happens to these saved Jews if they keep on sinning deliberately? This is what happens "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (Heb 10:26-27).
@Mkvine Understand how I been taught.This book oh Hebrews is for the SAVED JEWS Going through the tribulation.Notice the sealing of these saints is differant than people sealed today.The Holy Spirit is the difference.How so? Eph1:13.At the start of the tribulation the Holy Spirit WILL be removed before anti-christ comes to power.So the sealing of saints WILL BE different.2nd Thess2:7.
Whether the book of Hebrews was written to saved Jews or saved Gentiles it makes no difference, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile...for you are all one in Christ" (Gal 3:28). Furthermore, we see the Holy Spirit working in the save Jews (Heb 10:15-16, 29). Regarding 2 Thess 2:7, this is not talking about the sealing of the Spirit being different, its talking about "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction...who...proclaims himself to be god" (v.3-4), and his work (v.7).
However, let's continue to read down Hebrews 10, it says the following "How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:29). Here we see that a person was "sanctified" by God but that through his sin, he has "outraged the Spirit of Grace." Do you think someone is on their way to heaven by outraging the Spirit?
@Mkvine The Greek word aionios is used 71 times.Its used for the word Eternal.If God dint promise eternal life why is it written 19 times,Yes the words eternal life?Try reading these verses,Eph1:7,,Col1:14 col1:20 1John1:7.If we are Justified By his blood where is salvation lost?
Scripture makes it clear that we are adopted sons of God through our baptism (Gal 3:27-28). And as sons of God, we receive an inheritance of the Kingdom (Col 3:24; Col 1:12). However, by committing certain sins, we can lose our inheritance (Eph 5:5; 1 Cor 6:9-10; Gal 5:19-21).
@Mkvine Christ died for ALL sin did he not?Yes a person can loose their inheritance does not mean salvation is lost.This what people fail to understand.You still havent commented on the verses I gave you.Eph1:7,Our sins were Judged at the cross.Past,Present and future sins.Col1:14,,,,Col1:201John1:7.These are but a few that we are justified by Christ Jesus.
You said that if "a person can loose their inheritance does not mean salvation is lost."
Yes it does, look at the verses I quoted. I will quote one "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions... I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will NOT INHERIT the kingdom of God" (Gal 5:19-21).
@Mkvine This verse is about UNsaved people.Inheritance is rewards.God forbid your mom and dad pass away.You get an inheritance,The house, car, what ever they leave you.Now say (God Forbid) They dis own you.You are still their child.This will never change.Even though you get nothing,you are still their child and they or you cannot change this.No matter what has happend.Romans 8:14-17.God is your Father no matter what.
Well first of all, this Paul is speaking to the Galatian Church which is composed of believers. Second of all, he starts off Galatians 5 by saying "For freedom Christ has set us free" (v.1) meaning that the Galatians are already saved. Third of all, he even addresses them as "brothers" (vs. 11, 13). Then he says "I warn you as I did before" (v. 21) meaning that these saved people were indulging in sin, and he had to warn them, otherwise....
...otherwise, they would not inherit the Kingdom of God. You said that the inheritance is a reward and this implies that its not talking about heaven. That is not the case, lets look at this passage one more time "I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal 5:21). If you don't inherit the Kingdom of God, then you don't inherit Heaven. Yes you remain a son, but a disobedient one who has lost his inheritance (heaven).
As far as the verses you quoted, they are no problem. In Col 1:14, 20 yes Christ did Reconcile us and in him we have redemption. But the problem is staying in Christ Jesus, the problem is falling away from him by sin. I already quoted verses that show you where certain sins cause us to loose our inheritance. That's why its important to repent. In 1 John 1:7, it says IF we walk in light he cleanses us, meaning that IF we don't then he doesn't cleanse us from sin.
@Mkvine Once again I ask you,What sin isnt covered by the blood of Christ.If you say all then we are in agreement.If you disagree you are putting Christ back on the cross,Putting him to an open shame.Im saying a saved person reguardless of what state of mind are in CANNOT loose salvation.You are saying what they become after they are saved.If they loose their faith AFTER they are saved,(I know people like this) they stay babes in Christ never growing.
Part 1). We can both agree that through Jesus' death, he died for all sins. The question remains, however, how do the merits won by Jesus on the Cross apply to us? If you say they applied to us when he died on the Cross, that means everyone is forgiven and there is no need to repent or even to believe. Ah, but here you will say that it is necessary to believe, that's exactly my point. In this case, the merits won by Jesus are applied to us when we believe...
However, the problem still remains that we sin and scripture says that if we sin deliberately "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin" (Heb 10:26). That's precisely why Jesus continues to intercede for us, so that his merits are applied to us throughout our lives, and not just in a one time event. For example Jesus "make propitiation for the sins of the people" (Heb 2:17). Propitiation is in the present tense infinitive, meaning that he continually does this throughout our life
@Mkvine Its right here in front of both of us,Look how you wrote this.Jesus makes propitiation for the sins of the people.This is the walk I am talking about AFTER ONE GETS SAVED>You cant earn salvation or do anything to keep it.Its God and Jesus that made the plan of salvation nothing of us.We either accept it or reject it.Once we accept it we will WANT to serve Christ.To say salvation is lost on your works is a works salvation and cannot save.
Yes, Jesus does make propitiation for our sins, but it doesn't say that he did only once in the past. It says He "make propitiation" (Heb 2:17) which is a present tense infinitive verb, meaning that He he continues to make it throughout our lives; so its a process because we continue to sin. You said “We either accept it or reject it.” Don't you think we are rejecting salvation when we “sin deliberately?
@Mkvine My answer to you on If we sin deliberate.It happens.Are going to loose salvation for it?No.Gods grace abounds more then sin.If you say you dont sin because you are now saved,Well All I can say is I am a work in progress.I sin not knowing or on purpose Im still in this human body.Im not perfect.But I strive for Gods mark.Meaning I love God and strive to do his will.I walk as best as I can in HIS will not mine.But I do fail at times.
If we sin deliberately, there no longer remains sacrifice for sin. What saved us in the first place was the sacrifice of Christ, so if it no longer applies to us, then we are no longer saved. That's why we need to repent, and we have Christ who continually makes propitiation for us. Moreover, Paul lists the specific kinds of sins that would make us lose our inheritance, read those verses I gave you for that.
Also, basically what you told me is that no sin affects your salvation. If that's the case, then I guess murder, adultery, idolatry (all the sins Paul lists) do not affect your salvation. Of course, you might not want to commit these, but even if you do, it doesn't affect your salvation. That's really what your telling me.
@Mkvine You fail to understand salvation ,,,,,,,,,and how a person WALKS AFTER they get saved.If you think the law and Christ saves you are wrong I showed you that.What happens to a person who gets saved?They put off the old and put on the new.When you start telling me about a killer a thief a person who commits rape,These are NOT SAVED people.People sin after they are saved I know this to be true I do.But I repent of my sins as do many others. CONT
Your walk after your salvation does matter. If you fail to walk in accordance with the Grace of God by rejecting him, then you are no longer saved. That's precisely why Paul warns saved people to avoid certain types of sin, telling them that if they commit them, they will lose their inheritance (heaven). Furthermore, doesn't Paul know that saved people will not commit these sins? Then why is he wasting time telling them if it were not possible?
Your error is assuming a protestant understanding of salvation. "Getting saved" has no meaning in Orthodoxy, because salvation is a process, not an event. It is initiated in the blood of Christ through baptism (Rom 6:3-4), which is the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) effective unto the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), however we are still to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12), through the grace of God (Phil 2:13).
Though initiated in baptism, salvation is grown through partaking of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), in the Holy Eucharist (1 Corinthians 10:16-17), which is the true flesh of Jesus (John 6:55). Serious sins committed after baptism can cause one to lose the inheritance (Galatians 5:21), which, if committed in full knowledge can cause one to fall from grace (Hebrews 10:26). One is forgiven through confession to Christ through an ordained priest (John 20:23, 2 Corinthians 2:10)
@KabaneTheChristian Here in this paragraph you quote 2 books who do NOT belong to the church why?Why pull scripture out of context?The Gospel of john is written to the Jews NOT the church and the BOOK of HEBREWS is to the Jews going through the tribulation.Baptism does not save so why quote this?In Galatians You picked and choose what you want,Back up to verse19?These are NOT saved people.Paul is clear on these sinful people WILL NOT Enter in.
AHAHAHAH WHAT? Hebrews and John aren't authoritative? Okay, you're clearly a nut. Baptism DOES SAVE YOU, as Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21. Don't like what the Bible says? Too bad.
@KabaneTheChristian What does a person do before they get baptized? They get saved Right?Then what?They get baptized.Again you pull scripture out of Context.The true meaning of this verse is Water itself cannot save.Baptism With water is the VIVID SYMBOL Of the CHANGED life of one who has a conscience at peace with God THROUGH FAITH in Christ Jesus.You know nothing of Rightly Dividing the Word of God.But I will Show you.
No, NOT right. As I told you earlier, salvation is not an event, it is a process. Thus, the evangelical phrase, "getting saved", holds NO MEANING for me.
The Gospel of John and the Epistle to the Hebrews are not authoritative because they are written to the Jews??? Wow, do you follow the Marcionite heresy? Maybe you should adopt their canon of scripture.
@Mkvine The way you are thinking is a person does not sin after one is saved and thats a lie from satan.Are you still in the flesh?To say oh its ok to do these sins BUT NOT these sins or you will loose your salvation Thats crazy.Christ died for all sin,Past Present and future sins.Romans11:27,Read Romans12:2 as well.This is what happens when we come to Christ Jesus.Notice in 27,He says sins,meaning more then one.it means ALL SINS!
I never once said that a person does not sin after they are saved. I have been saying the exact opposite, that they CAN sin after they have been saved, and if the sin is serious then they can lose their inheritance (heaven). Also, I never once said that “its ok to do these sins,” again you are committing a straw-man fallacy. Then you say the following “lie from satan. Are you still in the flesh?” That's nothing more than appealing to emotion. Please put emotions aside and be logical
@Mkvine Yes, Romans 11:27 does say sins, I agree with that. The question is, in what sense is that applied to us. Hebrew 2:17 says Christ makes propitiation, which means that the merits won on the Cross by Him are applied to us all throughout our lives, and its not just a one time event.
Yes Christ died for all sins, but this does not mean penally substituted for all sins, which becomes immediately applied past present and future upon the exercise of faith. Christ died for all sins, and this is applied to us throughout our lives through repentance, prayer, and partaking of the mysteries.
@KabaneTheChristian What mysteries are you talking about?My salvation isnt based on what I may do or not do and I proved it with the verses I showed you.What part of salvation are you having a problem with?You either accept him or reject Christ.You had NO part in Gods simple plan of salvation other then accepting him.In other words you couldnt save yourself from anything like hell.
@KabaneTheChristian Romans/Doctrine 1&2 Cor/RE-Proof Galatians/Correction Eph/Doctrine Phil/RE-Proof Col/Correction 1&2 Thess/Doctrine 1&2Tim Instruction Titus,Phili/Instruction.Are you getting this?Your catholic whore cannot or will not save you with these soo called sacraments.Only Christ can save you.To use books NOT to the church only Robs The Jews of their inheritance.This also shows my you do not even know how to study the Bible!
First of all, Kabane is not Catholic, he is Orthodox, get your facts straight. Second of all, ad hominem is not a valid argument. To call the Church a "whore" is nothing more than appealing to emotions which show you have nothing logical to say and are losing this discussion. Third of all, yes Jesus does save us. He does so by applying his Grace won on the cross to us through the sacraments. Stop attacking strawman.
@Mkvine Im right on this and you know it,Like the scam purgatory?Ever hear of that?You have no clue as to rightly dividing the word of God.And now theres two of you in this conversation not just one whom I was talking to right?So who had to go get help?Your false doctrine and twisting scriptures is the best you can do.You dont get it,SALVATION is different then the walk once you are saved.Tell me,What part in salvation did you and Christ and God have in salvation?
You haven't proven anything yet. Actually the only thing you've proven is that you can't prove your case lol. Also, you've shown yourself to be a Marcionite Heretic, good job. I have refuted your claims over and over and over again. All you've done is appeal to emotions, sorry that is not a valid form of argumentation. Try better next time.
Are you a hyper-dispensationalist? Galatians 6:16 refers to the Church as the "Israel of God", and the Bible clearly teaches that those Jews who reject Jesus as Messiah are apostate, while those who accept Him remain in true Israel. The Bible is for the whole Church, the New Israel.
@KabaneTheChristian The whole church is NOT the new Israel.How can this be in a book thats still in the future?Revelation 21:2 is very clear this cannot be the church,Who in the world is teaching you that the Church is the bride?This is in the future and is NOT going to happen till after the Rapture of the church.1Thess4:14-18.In fact show me any verses that the church is the bride?Im looking forward to this.
(Revelation 21:2) And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Um, the NEW Jerusalem? The BRIDE of Christ? What is the bride of Christ? The Church! Revelation 19:7-8, it is made up of the saints of Christ, identified in the Pauline letters as the people of the Church. Galatians 3:7, the true sons of Abraham (Israel) are those who have faith in Christ, that is, the Church.
Galatians 6:16, the Church called the Israel of God. The rapture? LOL! 1 Thess refers to the Second Coming and general resurrection. The Bible teaches TWO not three comings.
Timeout...."SAVE THE SON OF PERDITION"....what ur saying is contradictory.....u said NOBODY will be lost....ur wrong, u kno how???....Judas was lost once he sold out Christ, but Peter was also lost once he denied Christ 3 times....wanna kno the difference between the two???...Peter repented & Judas did not....so what if Peter had not repented???...ill leave u to answer that
name, and died in shame. God saves the soul not the body.Flesh and blood is not subject ti the laws of God, neither indeed
can be. He is not the 1st person that
has died in shame. Don't you think Jimmy Swaggart is going to die in shame. John wrote saved though as by fire. He was saved but it destroyed his body. I know you can't understand this. I think you can
"THE SON OF PERDITION".....he sinned & got away w/ it?????....ur going to sit there & tell me he wasn't lost when he sold out Christ????...there is no way Judas's soul was right w/ God when he sold him out, that is absurd.....WOW, ill go out & murder somebody & feel good that i'm still not lost.....buddy i read my Bible, it says in the Bible read ur Bible daily...i'm 17, show me a random 17-year-old Baptist & let me debate him
Judge not. There will be a lot of people in Heaven you didn't think would make it and a lot of people you just knew would be there won't be there.The Lord told his own disciples, " I will bless who I will and curse who I will , and what is that to you"You just won't ever make it as a judge.Where does it say read your Bible daily, and what good would it do to debate someone.WHAT you are doing is reading the LETTER. not the word.The letter killeth but the Spirit maketh alive.Satan knows it to.
U didn't answer my question.....did he sin & get away w/ it?????......if it wasn't a big deal y did he hang himself????....there's no point to worry ab it if ur still saved...right????
In Acts...The Bereans read their Bibles daily, which means we r to read our Bibles daily...btw, there is such thing as righteous judgement....if ur brother sins against you take it to him, if he refuses...take 2 or 3 w/ u...if that doesnt work take it to the elders, if there wasn't...Preachers wouldn't b needed
You say that once you are saved you can go out and sin freely.How sad that is.The more I hear this message from you I see just how much people cant understand Gods word.How sad that is.When coming to Christ one PUTS OFF THE OLD AND PUTS ON THE NEW and to say God will not finish the work he started in you makes him a liar.Philippians1:6 How many times does a person have to get saved? to stay saved?
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
If you are already saved, and theres nothing you can do to lose your salvation, then there is no consequence for sin. You might not like how that sounds, but thats the logical conclusion. Another thing to consider, most of Paul's epistles were written to saved believers. If that's the case, then why does Paul spend so much time writing to them on avoiding sin? Doesn't Paul know that there is no consequence to sin? Of course he does, thats why he tells them....
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine
...tells them that if they continue to sin, they will lose their inheritance. In fact, Paul even says this "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Why would Paul even consider the fact of being disqualified if that were impossible?
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine To say that theres no consequence for sin the way you put it is telling me you dont understand Gods Righteousness at all. If you think once you get saved and thats all you gotta do thats a false salvation.You just cannot understand Gods simple grace can you?Paul says atleast 14 times God Forbid.What you fail to understand is salvation and a persons walk AFTER they get saved are two very different things.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
I think I didn't explain myself clearly enough. When I say that there is “no consequence for sin,” I am speaking in the context of salvation, not in the ordinary sense. So the question remains, is our salvation affected when we “sin deliberately?” Yes or No. If not, then why does Paul warn Christians against certain sins, saying that if they commit these, they will lose their inheritance (heaven)?
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine When your child looks at you and outright does just what you told him NOT to do.Do you dis-own him,Hate him.Kick him out of the house?No,YOU correct him do you not?Why is that different with you and God?Romans 8:14-17 we are adopted into Gods family through Christ Jesus.Its clear in Romans Gods love can NEVER be seperated from us.He loves us and its not based on what we do.Its what we do when offered the Gift of salvation.Why get saved and not live for him?
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
When your child burns your house down, murders your wife, kills his brothers and sisters, robs you of all your money, of course you would kick him out of the house! We are talking about serious sins here, and Paul even lists what kind of sins would disinherit you from heaven.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine So based on these sins does it change the fact hes still my blood?Do I still not love this child?Oh I would be mad but doesnt change the FACT hes my blood.I could disinherit this child as well.Doesnt mean we are no longer father son does it?You fail to understand Gods grace.Think about this,Are saved people going out to kill,rape and blow things up?These are not saved people.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Not once did I ever say that he is no longer a son. What is said was that this *disobedient* son can lose his inheritance (heaven) for committing grave sin, just like a disobedient son can go to jail for the rest of his life for murdering your wife, killing your children, burning your house down, etc. Your underlying premise is that saved people will automatically be good, that is not true, that why I posted Paul's own example (1 Cor. 9:27). Read that.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine
The good thing is that even though we committed all these heinous sins, God is willing to forgive us if we repent. Hence, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And that's precisely why we have him as mediator between us and God (1 Tim 2:5), so that he can intercede for us when we sin and repent.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Paul is clear on one thing and he gives over 15 times in the NT that he is CHIEF SINNER of all.Yet Pauls message is clear.Saved by grace.Nothing of yourselves least a man boast.Eph2:8-9. Paul teaches that we are under GRACE not the law seeing no man is justified by the law,Gal2:16, Romans 8:1,Who can condem me if I am in Christ Jesus?So salvation is saved if you dont do that or this?thats a WORKS salvation not a grace salvation.Pauls clear on that.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
I agree that we are saved by Grace, the problem is when we reject God's grace. We do that when we commit serious sin and thereby lose our inheritance (heaven).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
I don't think you are reading what I am writing. For the third time now, I never ONCE said that they are no longer your sons, or that they are no longer your blood, etc. So please commiting the straw-man fallacy. What I did say was that they lose their inheritance (heaven), and Paul makes that very clear.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine “Are saved people going out to kill rape and blow things up? These are not saved people.” Then why is Paul warning saved people about not doing these very things if it were impossible for them to do? It would be superfluous for him to warn them if he knew that was an impossibility.
Mkvine 1 year ago
No its not, At 6:30 of your video you are wrong.Read Romans 8:14-17.This adoption is forever.What sin isnt covered by the Blood of Christ?At 9:30 of your video this is a lie on your part.You did a very good part till the 6 min part of the video.After the last 6 min of this video you blew your testimony.How sad that is.Show me where its written SALVATION IS LOST IF YOU..............
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Also, consider the following passage "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God" (Hebrew 10:26-27).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine When you rightly divide the word of God You will see that OSAS isnt a false doctrine.I could fill your channel up with Grace verses.Thats not my point.Hebrews isnt written to the church so by you useing that verse its WAY out of text.By the way,So you know That passage 10:26 is clear.If you study.To know the truth and reject it.Than theres no more sacrifice.We are saved by GRACE and nothing more.Salvation cant be lost,Rewards can.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Regarding Hebrews, its debatable if he wrote to Jewish Christians or non-Jewish Christians, thats all besides the point. The point is what he says, "For if we go on sinning deliberately AFTER receiving the knowledge of the TRUTH, there NO LONGER remains a sacrifice for sins.." Hebrews 10:26. What's interesting is that they author said this to "Brothers" who have "confidence" in the "blood of Jesus" (Heb 10:19).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine I am told the book of Hebrews is (BY MY Instructors) is written to the saved Jews going through the Tribulation.A person in a backslidden state will go on sinning deliberately reguardless of his being saved.Do I justify him,No I do not.Nor do I say his salvation is lost.Thats Gods job.2Cor5:10This is how I was taught,Look at 1Cor5:5.This is a back slidden person.We all know people like this.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
You made an interesting admission, you just said that the book of Hebrews is written to SAVED Jews. What happens to these saved Jews if they keep on sinning deliberately? This is what happens "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (Heb 10:26-27).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Understand how I been taught.This book oh Hebrews is for the SAVED JEWS Going through the tribulation.Notice the sealing of these saints is differant than people sealed today.The Holy Spirit is the difference.How so? Eph1:13.At the start of the tribulation the Holy Spirit WILL be removed before anti-christ comes to power.So the sealing of saints WILL BE different.2nd Thess2:7.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Whether the book of Hebrews was written to saved Jews or saved Gentiles it makes no difference, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile...for you are all one in Christ" (Gal 3:28). Furthermore, we see the Holy Spirit working in the save Jews (Heb 10:15-16, 29). Regarding 2 Thess 2:7, this is not talking about the sealing of the Spirit being different, its talking about "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction...who...proclaims himself to be god" (v.3-4), and his work (v.7).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
However, let's continue to read down Hebrews 10, it says the following "How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:29). Here we see that a person was "sanctified" by God but that through his sin, he has "outraged the Spirit of Grace." Do you think someone is on their way to heaven by outraging the Spirit?
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Was this book written to the Church or Israel?This book of Hebrews was not written to the Church.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
God our father is making a great tool out of you
your solitary trust and belief in the church and foremost in god is inspireing
GOD BLESS
2812608584 3 years ago
Thank you very much, hopefully this message can get to as many as people as possible. God bless you.
Mkvine 3 years ago
Yes, the Lord himself told that he was able to
keep that he saved. To be lost again the Lord
would have to go back to the cross again.
The holy mother can't keep you, only the son
of God, yes you can sin and destroy your
influence , and destroy this body, but that that he saved he sealed.Yes we can still sin,
and all do, if you say you don't the Bible teaches you are a liar and the truth is not in you.Its not that you can sin, but to doubt
his power to keep you, is a sin.he has all
power.
baptistfaith 3 years ago
That's interesting, could you show a bible passage where it says we are once saved always saved? Thanks
Mkvine 3 years ago
@Mkvine The Greek word aionios is used 71 times.Its used for the word Eternal.If God dint promise eternal life why is it written 19 times,Yes the words eternal life?Try reading these verses,Eph1:7,,Col1:14 col1:20 1John1:7.If we are Justified By his blood where is salvation lost?
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Scripture makes it clear that we are adopted sons of God through our baptism (Gal 3:27-28). And as sons of God, we receive an inheritance of the Kingdom (Col 3:24; Col 1:12). However, by committing certain sins, we can lose our inheritance (Eph 5:5; 1 Cor 6:9-10; Gal 5:19-21).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Christ died for ALL sin did he not?Yes a person can loose their inheritance does not mean salvation is lost.This what people fail to understand.You still havent commented on the verses I gave you.Eph1:7,Our sins were Judged at the cross.Past,Present and future sins.Col1:14,,,,Col1:201John1:7.These are but a few that we are justified by Christ Jesus.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
You said that if "a person can loose their inheritance does not mean salvation is lost."
Yes it does, look at the verses I quoted. I will quote one "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions... I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will NOT INHERIT the kingdom of God" (Gal 5:19-21).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine This verse is about UNsaved people.Inheritance is rewards.God forbid your mom and dad pass away.You get an inheritance,The house, car, what ever they leave you.Now say (God Forbid) They dis own you.You are still their child.This will never change.Even though you get nothing,you are still their child and they or you cannot change this.No matter what has happend.Romans 8:14-17.God is your Father no matter what.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
"This verse is about the UNsaved"
Well first of all, this Paul is speaking to the Galatian Church which is composed of believers. Second of all, he starts off Galatians 5 by saying "For freedom Christ has set us free" (v.1) meaning that the Galatians are already saved. Third of all, he even addresses them as "brothers" (vs. 11, 13). Then he says "I warn you as I did before" (v. 21) meaning that these saved people were indulging in sin, and he had to warn them, otherwise....
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine
...otherwise, they would not inherit the Kingdom of God. You said that the inheritance is a reward and this implies that its not talking about heaven. That is not the case, lets look at this passage one more time "I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal 5:21). If you don't inherit the Kingdom of God, then you don't inherit Heaven. Yes you remain a son, but a disobedient one who has lost his inheritance (heaven).
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
As far as the verses you quoted, they are no problem. In Col 1:14, 20 yes Christ did Reconcile us and in him we have redemption. But the problem is staying in Christ Jesus, the problem is falling away from him by sin. I already quoted verses that show you where certain sins cause us to loose our inheritance. That's why its important to repent. In 1 John 1:7, it says IF we walk in light he cleanses us, meaning that IF we don't then he doesn't cleanse us from sin.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Once again I ask you,What sin isnt covered by the blood of Christ.If you say all then we are in agreement.If you disagree you are putting Christ back on the cross,Putting him to an open shame.Im saying a saved person reguardless of what state of mind are in CANNOT loose salvation.You are saying what they become after they are saved.If they loose their faith AFTER they are saved,(I know people like this) they stay babes in Christ never growing.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Part 1). We can both agree that through Jesus' death, he died for all sins. The question remains, however, how do the merits won by Jesus on the Cross apply to us? If you say they applied to us when he died on the Cross, that means everyone is forgiven and there is no need to repent or even to believe. Ah, but here you will say that it is necessary to believe, that's exactly my point. In this case, the merits won by Jesus are applied to us when we believe...
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
However, the problem still remains that we sin and scripture says that if we sin deliberately "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin" (Heb 10:26). That's precisely why Jesus continues to intercede for us, so that his merits are applied to us throughout our lives, and not just in a one time event. For example Jesus "make propitiation for the sins of the people" (Heb 2:17). Propitiation is in the present tense infinitive, meaning that he continually does this throughout our life
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Its right here in front of both of us,Look how you wrote this.Jesus makes propitiation for the sins of the people.This is the walk I am talking about AFTER ONE GETS SAVED>You cant earn salvation or do anything to keep it.Its God and Jesus that made the plan of salvation nothing of us.We either accept it or reject it.Once we accept it we will WANT to serve Christ.To say salvation is lost on your works is a works salvation and cannot save.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Yes, Jesus does make propitiation for our sins, but it doesn't say that he did only once in the past. It says He "make propitiation" (Heb 2:17) which is a present tense infinitive verb, meaning that He he continues to make it throughout our lives; so its a process because we continue to sin. You said “We either accept it or reject it.” Don't you think we are rejecting salvation when we “sin deliberately?
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine My answer to you on If we sin deliberate.It happens.Are going to loose salvation for it?No.Gods grace abounds more then sin.If you say you dont sin because you are now saved,Well All I can say is I am a work in progress.I sin not knowing or on purpose Im still in this human body.Im not perfect.But I strive for Gods mark.Meaning I love God and strive to do his will.I walk as best as I can in HIS will not mine.But I do fail at times.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
If we sin deliberately, there no longer remains sacrifice for sin. What saved us in the first place was the sacrifice of Christ, so if it no longer applies to us, then we are no longer saved. That's why we need to repent, and we have Christ who continually makes propitiation for us. Moreover, Paul lists the specific kinds of sins that would make us lose our inheritance, read those verses I gave you for that.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine
Also, basically what you told me is that no sin affects your salvation. If that's the case, then I guess murder, adultery, idolatry (all the sins Paul lists) do not affect your salvation. Of course, you might not want to commit these, but even if you do, it doesn't affect your salvation. That's really what your telling me.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine You fail to understand salvation ,,,,,,,,,and how a person WALKS AFTER they get saved.If you think the law and Christ saves you are wrong I showed you that.What happens to a person who gets saved?They put off the old and put on the new.When you start telling me about a killer a thief a person who commits rape,These are NOT SAVED people.People sin after they are saved I know this to be true I do.But I repent of my sins as do many others. CONT
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Your walk after your salvation does matter. If you fail to walk in accordance with the Grace of God by rejecting him, then you are no longer saved. That's precisely why Paul warns saved people to avoid certain types of sin, telling them that if they commit them, they will lose their inheritance (heaven). Furthermore, doesn't Paul know that saved people will not commit these sins? Then why is he wasting time telling them if it were not possible?
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Your error is assuming a protestant understanding of salvation. "Getting saved" has no meaning in Orthodoxy, because salvation is a process, not an event. It is initiated in the blood of Christ through baptism (Rom 6:3-4), which is the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) effective unto the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), however we are still to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12), through the grace of God (Phil 2:13).
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Though initiated in baptism, salvation is grown through partaking of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), in the Holy Eucharist (1 Corinthians 10:16-17), which is the true flesh of Jesus (John 6:55). Serious sins committed after baptism can cause one to lose the inheritance (Galatians 5:21), which, if committed in full knowledge can cause one to fall from grace (Hebrews 10:26). One is forgiven through confession to Christ through an ordained priest (John 20:23, 2 Corinthians 2:10)
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@KabaneTheChristian Here in this paragraph you quote 2 books who do NOT belong to the church why?Why pull scripture out of context?The Gospel of john is written to the Jews NOT the church and the BOOK of HEBREWS is to the Jews going through the tribulation.Baptism does not save so why quote this?In Galatians You picked and choose what you want,Back up to verse19?These are NOT saved people.Paul is clear on these sinful people WILL NOT Enter in.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
AHAHAHAH WHAT? Hebrews and John aren't authoritative? Okay, you're clearly a nut. Baptism DOES SAVE YOU, as Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21. Don't like what the Bible says? Too bad.
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@KabaneTheChristian What does a person do before they get baptized? They get saved Right?Then what?They get baptized.Again you pull scripture out of Context.The true meaning of this verse is Water itself cannot save.Baptism With water is the VIVID SYMBOL Of the CHANGED life of one who has a conscience at peace with God THROUGH FAITH in Christ Jesus.You know nothing of Rightly Dividing the Word of God.But I will Show you.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
No, NOT right. As I told you earlier, salvation is not an event, it is a process. Thus, the evangelical phrase, "getting saved", holds NO MEANING for me.
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
The Gospel of John and the Epistle to the Hebrews are not authoritative because they are written to the Jews??? Wow, do you follow the Marcionite heresy? Maybe you should adopt their canon of scripture.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine The way you are thinking is a person does not sin after one is saved and thats a lie from satan.Are you still in the flesh?To say oh its ok to do these sins BUT NOT these sins or you will loose your salvation Thats crazy.Christ died for all sin,Past Present and future sins.Romans11:27,Read Romans12:2 as well.This is what happens when we come to Christ Jesus.Notice in 27,He says sins,meaning more then one.it means ALL SINS!
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
I never once said that a person does not sin after they are saved. I have been saying the exact opposite, that they CAN sin after they have been saved, and if the sin is serious then they can lose their inheritance (heaven). Also, I never once said that “its ok to do these sins,” again you are committing a straw-man fallacy. Then you say the following “lie from satan. Are you still in the flesh?” That's nothing more than appealing to emotion. Please put emotions aside and be logical
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Yes, Romans 11:27 does say sins, I agree with that. The question is, in what sense is that applied to us. Hebrew 2:17 says Christ makes propitiation, which means that the merits won on the Cross by Him are applied to us all throughout our lives, and its not just a one time event.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Yes Christ died for all sins, but this does not mean penally substituted for all sins, which becomes immediately applied past present and future upon the exercise of faith. Christ died for all sins, and this is applied to us throughout our lives through repentance, prayer, and partaking of the mysteries.
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@KabaneTheChristian What mysteries are you talking about?My salvation isnt based on what I may do or not do and I proved it with the verses I showed you.What part of salvation are you having a problem with?You either accept him or reject Christ.You had NO part in Gods simple plan of salvation other then accepting him.In other words you couldnt save yourself from anything like hell.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
The Eucharist, Baptism, Anointing, Chrismation, Ordination, etc. Salvation is a synergy, get over it.
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@KabaneTheChristian Romans/Doctrine 1&2 Cor/RE-Proof Galatians/Correction Eph/Doctrine Phil/RE-Proof Col/Correction 1&2 Thess/Doctrine 1&2Tim Instruction Titus,Phili/Instruction.Are you getting this?Your catholic whore cannot or will not save you with these soo called sacraments.Only Christ can save you.To use books NOT to the church only Robs The Jews of their inheritance.This also shows my you do not even know how to study the Bible!
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
First of all, Kabane is not Catholic, he is Orthodox, get your facts straight. Second of all, ad hominem is not a valid argument. To call the Church a "whore" is nothing more than appealing to emotions which show you have nothing logical to say and are losing this discussion. Third of all, yes Jesus does save us. He does so by applying his Grace won on the cross to us through the sacraments. Stop attacking strawman.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Mkvine Im right on this and you know it,Like the scam purgatory?Ever hear of that?You have no clue as to rightly dividing the word of God.And now theres two of you in this conversation not just one whom I was talking to right?So who had to go get help?Your false doctrine and twisting scriptures is the best you can do.You dont get it,SALVATION is different then the walk once you are saved.Tell me,What part in salvation did you and Christ and God have in salvation?
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
You haven't proven anything yet. Actually the only thing you've proven is that you can't prove your case lol. Also, you've shown yourself to be a Marcionite Heretic, good job. I have refuted your claims over and over and over again. All you've done is appeal to emotions, sorry that is not a valid form of argumentation. Try better next time.
Mkvine 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Are you a hyper-dispensationalist? Galatians 6:16 refers to the Church as the "Israel of God", and the Bible clearly teaches that those Jews who reject Jesus as Messiah are apostate, while those who accept Him remain in true Israel. The Bible is for the whole Church, the New Israel.
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@KabaneTheChristian The whole church is NOT the new Israel.How can this be in a book thats still in the future?Revelation 21:2 is very clear this cannot be the church,Who in the world is teaching you that the Church is the bride?This is in the future and is NOT going to happen till after the Rapture of the church.1Thess4:14-18.In fact show me any verses that the church is the bride?Im looking forward to this.
Hunter8074 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
(Revelation 21:2) And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Um, the NEW Jerusalem? The BRIDE of Christ? What is the bride of Christ? The Church! Revelation 19:7-8, it is made up of the saints of Christ, identified in the Pauline letters as the people of the Church. Galatians 3:7, the true sons of Abraham (Israel) are those who have faith in Christ, that is, the Church.
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
@Hunter8074
Galatians 6:16, the Church called the Israel of God. The rapture? LOL! 1 Thess refers to the Second Coming and general resurrection. The Bible teaches TWO not three comings.
KabaneTheChristian 1 year ago
"You do err not knowing the scriptures"The Lord said father I have not lost any that you
gave me, save the son of perdition.The body
can be destroyed, but that the Lord gave me
is saved and sealed against that day.We are
saved thru the works the Lord did on the cross.The bible tells us to be lost again would be to crucify Christ again to and open
shame, do you think Christ is going back to the cross, if you sin after you are saved
you will pay for it in this body.This is
unsound doctrine.
baptistfaith 3 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but, it from what I read, it sounds like you hold to the doctrine of once saved always saved. Is this correct?
Mkvine 3 years ago
Timeout...."SAVE THE SON OF PERDITION"....what ur saying is contradictory.....u said NOBODY will be lost....ur wrong, u kno how???....Judas was lost once he sold out Christ, but Peter was also lost once he denied Christ 3 times....wanna kno the difference between the two???...Peter repented & Judas did not....so what if Peter had not repented???...ill leave u to answer that
1tim31617 2 years ago
So,you don't believe God is able to keep that you have committed to him against that day.If you were keeping your salvation you could
and no doubt would, lose it, but I am not keeping it, he is keeping me.Peter did not
lose his salvation, he like many was following Christ a far off, and denied
him ,if your God is unable
to keep you try my God .He has never lost one. You need to find you a god that
has saving power, and keeping power.HOW could you trust a god to save
but can't keep ?
baptistfaith 2 years ago
U didn't address my point...why was Judas lost?????????
1tim31617 2 years ago
Where does the scriptures say he was lost ?
He destroyed his life, his influence, his
name, and died in shame. God saves the soul not the body.Flesh and blood is not subject ti the laws of God, neither indeed
can be. He is not the 1st person that
has died in shame. Don't you think Jimmy Swaggart is going to die in shame. John wrote saved though as by fire. He was saved but it destroyed his body. I know you can't understand this. I think you can
if you listen to the Lord, and not your pastor.
baptistfaith 2 years ago
"THE SON OF PERDITION".....he sinned & got away w/ it?????....ur going to sit there & tell me he wasn't lost when he sold out Christ????...there is no way Judas's soul was right w/ God when he sold him out, that is absurd.....WOW, ill go out & murder somebody & feel good that i'm still not lost.....buddy i read my Bible, it says in the Bible read ur Bible daily...i'm 17, show me a random 17-year-old Baptist & let me debate him
1tim31617 2 years ago
baptistfaith 2 years ago
U didn't answer my question.....did he sin & get away w/ it?????......if it wasn't a big deal y did he hang himself????....there's no point to worry ab it if ur still saved...right????
In Acts...The Bereans read their Bibles daily, which means we r to read our Bibles daily...btw, there is such thing as righteous judgement....if ur brother sins against you take it to him, if he refuses...take 2 or 3 w/ u...if that doesnt work take it to the elders, if there wasn't...Preachers wouldn't b needed
1tim31617 2 years ago