Thousands flee fighting in DR Congo - 08 Sep 07

[PATRICELUMUMBAS]

no  blood en congo

[spany17]

just lets pray God for the future of our country

[MsKivu]

shut up! there were thousounds of Russians who were also force to leave their homes in Moscow because the"French", who are also "WHITE" like Russians, invaded Russia. lol Americas, which are "whites were also slaved by the English, which are also whites. its over now, one day it will also be over in africans country. it will take us time to love another, just like it took whites time to learn that "whites are brothers": usa and uk are brothes! french and russians are brothers!!!

[MsKivu]

Is not like DRCongo is fighting against themselves. they fighting against "another country" that it is trying to harm its population. Just like USA fought England for harming its people. Just like France fought the Germans for harming its people. Just like Russia fought the french for harming its population. Today the misery its over and the "hatred story" its covered! Soon, "Africans hatred story" will also be over and covered! If only white men agree to get out in our business and harmony!

[MsKivu]

you white men act like if you never killed yourself. During the reign of LOUIS the 14th. you guys were slaved of no race but whites. fights were among your govenors in order to obtain freedom and innocent people were also dying! today, you guys fight and obtain your freedom, what proves that we will never obtain ours too? your women were slaved of their men, just like it is in Africa. today ur women are free. today its ur time, maybe our time will be tomorrow!

[Whitetiger141]

Welcome to Africa,. population: Niggers.

[MsKivu]

when you conquered bad to good, learn how to help those that remain bad to also conquer them, instead of laughing at them or calling them "stupid". cause there is a day god will ask u, i gave u power what u do with it? oh God i used to laugh and slaved others!Straiht to hell! bother way, you gys never been perfect. u guys were also fighting among u remember: "WWI and WWII"? today u guys learn how to love another, give Africa time to learn that too! Everything takes time!

[Physicspilot]

@Whitetiger141 That's our home.Something wrong about that!?

[CULAVE]

Of course I should emphasise there is more to Northern Ireland than the conflict. Belfast is great cultural city to visit, there is the Titanic and CS Lewis connections, British PM Andrew Bonar Law (an Ulster-Canadian) connection, many historical links with the US and some of the most beautiful scenery in western Europe- as well as a world heritage site.

[CULAVE]

cont... when there were 476 bomb attacks, 289 shootings and 84 dead (bearing in mind the small population) Much of the modern conflict has been marked by low-level guerilla warfare (similiar to Beirut, but not quite as bad) and sectarian rioting and attacks. Really its only the latest stage in a 500 year conflict- its very deeply imbedded in people's psyche. I think its therefore important to focus on the young and their integration. I would recommend watching 'The Boxer' with Daniel Day Lewis;

[CULAVE]

cont... or 'The Devils Own' with Brad Pitt- I think both films demonstrate well the social impact the troubles have had on the province. You may be also interested in watching an ad called 'Cats in the Cradle-NI' It is a powerful commercial used in the late 1980s by the NI Office Anti-Terrorist Campaign to demonstrate the stupidity of the cycle of violence in Ulster- its here on youtube.

[CULAVE]

their campaign of violence in Ulster and Great Britain including bomb attacks on civilians in London, Birmingham and elsewhere (funded by Irish-American organisations)- this lead to loyalist groups like the UVF forming to commit reprisals. It lead to tit-for-tat killings. For instance 5 Protestants would be shot in a pub- the next night 10 Catholics would be killed in another pub. The worst year was 1972 when there were 10,628 shootings, 1,853 bomb attacks and 457 dead. This compares to 1993;

[CULAVE]

The current conflict began in 1968 when Catholics and moderate Protestants began a civil rights campaign because Catholic did not feel they had equal civil rights in Ulster, in housing for instance. At first it was rioting and attacks and British troops were sent in as peacekeepers (resented and mistrusted by both sides who thought they were protecting the other) but following a notorious massacre in 1972 (the details of which are still debated) the IRA increased their membership and escalated;

[CULAVE]

cont... in many ways but ugly incidents still occur and in some places sectarianism is still strong. If you look at any youtube video on Northern Ireland, the childish and sometimes fanatical unionist-nationalist mudslinging demonstrates this. Football is also a factor and the Scottish city of Glasgow has some of the sectarian problems Belfast has. I try to be optimistic but when the sort of violence witnessed this year occurs, its difficult. By the way feel free to ask anything. Thankyou.

[CULAVE]

cont... evben many nationalists distance themselves from this group. Likewise I think it is important for the unionist community to denounce their extremists such as the gang of thugs who attacked families of 100 Romanian migrants in Belfast recently. One of the successes of power sharing has been the creation of the PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland)- this was formerly known as the Royal Ulster Constabury, which was seen as an inflammatory and isolating name. Things have improved cont;

[CULAVE]

cont.... what she didn't know was that I had grown up in Northern Ireland and I certainly didn't feel 'oppressed' by the British. There is so much I could write and comment on related to this, but ive already writen a lot.

[wabdinur]

I could see why this conflict lasted for so many years now. What do you think about the recent peace treaty between the warring factions? Will it last forever?

[CULAVE]

wabdinur- The former combatants are now the politicians and they are fighting with words and not guns,which is a positive step. Earlier this year when two British soldiers were killed in the province, Martin McGuinness, nationalist deputy first minister and former IRA Warlord strongly denounced the unprovoked killings- 15 years ago, this would have been unthinkable. The group responsible for those killings seemed to be very small and have little support except perhaps in one or two estates. con;

[CULAVE]

wabdinur- perhaps the best middle east analogy would be with the Israel-Arab conflict- it is a mostly low level conflict, but one which provokes great passions. And like NI, religion and boundaries play a role- both conflicts have fundamentally lasted centuries. There are actually Republican/Nationalist murals in Belfast supporting the Palestinian cause. But there are obvious differences too. In the DRC, I think its fair to say the two main factors are rewsources and Hutu/Tutsi tension.

[CULAVE]

cont... I do find myself getting frustrated when people around the world say things like 'Free Ireland' as if everyone on the island are somehow 'slaves' to the British. I don't want to sound like an apologist for British imperialism, because we do have a lot to answer for but when people say that they are proving they have only listened to one side- ie the nationalist side. I remember having a heated debate with someone from Greece who said 'You are British- you don't know what its like'- cont;

[CULAVE]

cont... to my knowledge never felt 'Irish' but rather 'Northern Irish' which is much more closely associated with British. When nationalists chant 'Brits Out' they tend to be referring to British soldiers (whose role is peacekeepers-ironically sent originally to protect Irish Catholic civilians) as opposed to the unionists. I can't claim to be an expert on the troubles but its worth noting that the Catholic-Protestant conflict and Unionist-Nationalist conflict is not allways the same thing. con;

[CULAVE]

wabdinur cont... as much in common with the Republic as I do with the Czech Repulic (just a random example) ie- I genuinely find it an interesting place with a rich history but I just don't feel any personal connection other than the fact they are fellow Europeans. But I do feel connection with the rest of the UK. Because NI is a small place (pop 1.7 million) the Northern Irish identity is rarely promoted. Actually the author CS Lewis is a good example- he was born in Belfast but to my cont....

[CULAVE]

wabdinur- therefore appreciate that you have, and I also appreciate the question. The problem with middle east analogies is that the conflict is so much smaller. About 3,800 people have died in NI in 40 years, up to 1 million plus have died in Iraq in 6 years- so in world terms NI is a comparatively insignificant conflict with very little impact outside the UK or Republic of Ireland. What im trying to emphasise is that many people in NI don't consider themselves to be Irish. Regards

[CULAVE]

cont.... I do not feel much animosity in the way some members of the unionist and nationalist/republican communities do because I have a liberal background. Unfortunately there remains deep divisions which sometimes spills into violence. But even in mainland Britain people are often ignorant about 'Northern Irish identity' and many people in England simply generalise everyone from the island as 'Irish' and won't even try to acknowledge the crucial Northern Irish (aka British) identity- I cont...

[CULAVE]

wabdinur cont... factor. Political boundaries also play a part here. It would take too long to discuss every aspect of this conflict because it goes back a long way but the (predominately) protestant unionist community in Northern Ireland is generally descended from English and Scottish plantation settlers who moved over to Ulster (the ancient kingdom NI covers) in about the 1580s onwards. So culturally they have more in common with Scotland than with the Irish Republic. Speaking personally con;

[chiefspackers]

All i have to say is look we don't care about our soldiers dying in iraq why would we care about africans our society doeesnt care about anyone but ourselves were such great people our religion hashelped us so well! congrats everyone!

[hooah91]

Africa was so much better when the Europeans ruled it

[wabdinur]

Keep dreaming.

[hooah91]

sorry id rather be ruled by a

foreign power than have my family raped, tortured and murdered by the local militia :)

[wabdinur]

Are you talking about the Northern Ireland problem or Africa?

[hooah91]

Africa....

[wabdinur]

"sorry id rather be ruled by a

foreign power than have my family raped, tortured and murdered by the local militia :)" -I would never give up my country to some foreign power just because my country is experiencing a civil unrest. I think you're giving up more than you bargain for.

[hooah91]

...your from CANADA lol you were ruled by England till 1982, lol talking about not giving up my country for a foreign power lol your fucking Canadian lol, and civil unrest? N Ireland...that was fucking civil unrest, Africa...thats Genocide, ok if the IRA started killing and raping millions of people when they gained control of Ireland...i would want England to rule

[wabdinur]

Well, Canada formed union of British North American colonies on July 1 1867 as a step to independence and the UK recognized Canada's independence on December 11 1931.

Besides, most Canadians were (and still are) of British descent and they felt that Great Britain was their motherland. That's kinda different when Britain took over parts of Africa and sent colonial troops to keep them subjugated.

Even so, I guess Canada now being independent from British rule would support my argument.

[hooah91]

oh im not disagreeing with you btw i hate England with a fucking passion i hope the bastards all rot, but you cant honestly say that Africa is better now than in the 80s

[wabdinur]

You're right, some parts of Africa is messed up but let's not forget how many trials and errors other countries underwent in order to get their act together. Most African countries have just gained their independence back in the 1960s.

What is alarming to me is that there are countries out there that actually profit from the civil wars/genocides of Africa by selling weapons to known criminals. The same goes for those international firms that bribe their way into controlling Africa's resources.

[CULAVE]

wabdinur- Are you aware that most people in NI choose to be part of the UK?

[wabdinur]

I never really could grasp the true story behind this issue. Arent the folks in Northern Ireland and the folks in Southern Ireland the same people with only two different religions? Like in Iraq, both Shias and Sunnis are Arabs but one side seeks refuge/support from the Sunni Arabs and the Shias seek Persian Shias for support.

[CULAVE]

wabdinur- they are not the same people- there are distinct cultural differences. The problem is that the image of the island of Ireland which is promoted to the world is only of the Republican, predominately catholic side. Northern Ireland is predominately unionist and protestant (although the latter is balancing out with Catholic) The unionist community is very pro-British and deeply resent being called 'Irish' as they are British citizens. Religion is a factor but it is not the only cont....

[CULAVE]

wabdinur- I hope I didn't make that sound 'sectarian'- its just that culturally there is quite a difference.

But to put the NI Troubles in perspective, the death toll there is 6,458 times less than the Second Congo War and its aftermath.

[wabdinur]

So what about the folks that want that region to be part of Ireland? Do they think that you're part of them?

[CULAVE]

wabdinur- yes and no. There are nationalists who will acknowledge the cultural difference and then nationalists that think unionists are brainwashed or not even acknowledge that there is a difference- but the point is the British influence in Ulster is not new- its existed for hundreds of years. For me its quite difficult because I don't want to be associated with those unionists who are extreme and sectarian- I have a number of friends from the Republic for instance. Its just that I have con;

[zweeterion]

The UN should secure camps like this and not look for ways to supply the irresponsible govt. troops.

[NotreCongo]

#These poor people are dying because of the wealth

beneath their feet (Diamonds,coltan etc.). Big corporates have been sponsoring wars to uproot the locals since the mid-90s.

#First mistake: Bill Clinton feels guilty for not

stopping the rwandan genocide and gave a free ride to rwandan tyrant Paul "Hitler" Kagame who has driven people who don't look like him in the bush of the

neigbouring Congo where his militias wrongly known

as congolese rebels are doing the killing for him.

[NotreCongo]

#Second mistake: The french (Beranrd Krouchner)

want to send troops in to stop the killings but since

that goes against british interests, he is stopped by

David Milliband of Britain.

#The war in Congo is the war of plunder just like

the war of oil in the mideast!

[gnzirama]

Nkunda is my HERO!!!!!

[NotreCongo]

Because he fucks your mother, tutsi women are bitches!

[gnzirama]

Tutsi women are the most beautiful people on earth. Your mother is a whore! You seem really pissed of hahahahaha! and Nkunda is still my hero!

[mbimbi9]

now you nkunda you'll never get that support from the u.s. we're gonna hit you really hard. i'm ready to give my blood just to get u arrested or killed u as u did in my country. Injustuce is ruling this world. why a such criminal should get support from any country,INJUSTICE but GOD will step in. We'll put ya ass in prison or kill you stupid soldier!

[andrione123]

Kenapa harus ada perang...??? kami dari indonesia suka damai....mari kta berdamai...

[slayermat0]

or from european contries

[31b1776]

I still dont get it?People still say some how this is the U.S and its their fault.How so? I have been on so many so many human rights missions and the people in these countrys love us to death!!!!Yes we fight and we kill! But we also help those that cannot help them selfs!

[mbimbi9]

one day,one day all these shit will disappear,you nkunda you 're gonna pay for your killings. "we must adress to the governemnt",you ain't even congolese. One day GOD will intervene for those innocents people y'all killing for money...

[rudasumbwa]

get over it, he was born in congo i dnt c y u forgot to mention dat kabila is rwandan 2, soon u realise dat ur country is mess sooner u will find solutions.

[mbimbi9]

pussy nigga we don't consider y'all as congolese,if you were from my country you couldn't kill my people. i'm saying this,we will never have another negociation with y'all. let's die but something is certain we will get that guy's ass in prison.

[papicooler]

man, congolese needs wise people to adresse their problemes most of them are selfish like mobutu. and nobody will give u peace even UN but congolese themselves. genocide in rwanda must be a lesson to africans UN or west can not help u but u can help yourseves . 1994 world was watchin' genocide in rwanda like they watchin' congo . be wize

[Muzungumatata]

L'Afrique a besoin d'identité dans chacune de ses nations, jusqu'en voyant ceci nous pouvons déterminer, que nostros mêmes nous le prenons comme un tout, non messieurs, nous parlons de la République Démocratique du Congo, nous devons alors reconnaître depuis déjà leur identité, RDC est RDC, et ils doivent trouver leur identité sans abandonner leurs coutumes.

[Muzungumatata]

Africa needs identity in each one of its nations, until seeing this can determine, that nostros same we took it like a whole, nongentlemen, is speaking of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, then we must recognize already from its identity, RDC is RDC, and they must find their identity without leaving their customs.

[webby686]

why dont you try something new and read a book! i recommend 'guns, germs and steel' by jared diamond.  but maybe science scares you when it doesnt propetuate racist thought..

[mikeisgreen14]

Afica needs colonies again.

[Measapon]

even if they didn't have all those things, witch they did, where do Europeans get the authority to tell them how to live?

[jklasdfjdfksl]

maybe you have not heard of ancient egypt, when africans were constructing pyramids all the way to nubia, had written language, and many other advancements while western europeans were running around in forests naked.

[jklasdfjdfksl]

it is not a question of race, race does not apply, humans are extremely genetically similar; modern science has shown us that there are no sub-species of humans, which race is suppossed to represent. there are no inferior humans, this is just a myth that used by western civilization to justify their extreme crimes around the world.

[mikeisgreen14]

before colonialism, africa had no written language, no cities, not even roads and the population didnt care for "resources". canibalism was wide spread and the poor dumb niggers sold each other to the arab slave traders. in fact, the niggers should be thankful for the efforts their colonial powers spent to school them. yeah, nigger were even better off on a chain than left for themselfes, cause no slavemaster would damage his possesion on purpse - as useless as it is.

[kelseysthecause]

your name says it all, green, novice, ignorant. It's morons like you that give white people a bad name. Did you possibly step through a portal in time. Man oh man are you a dork or what...

[maniachris]

im guessing you live in a trashy caravan park in the american deep south and have never been to a proper school...

[brick4sale]

Umm but they did some of the oldest cities, and some the oldest texts are from Africa. You see Africa is a continent with many different tribes, cultures, and varying terrain, shall I draw you a map? Am I using complex language that you cannot comprehend?

[webby686]

its something called 'colonialism' - centuries of it - which makes africa so f**ked today, because europe just HAD to bring 'civilization' to the 'savages'... and steal their natural resources...

[Vendikta]

I like the way you put some quotation marks. Just a question...

How come then if we were not "civilized" and they were not "savages" that we totally owned them?

[traveler89]

Wow racists?

[ericlemba]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh­hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh­hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh­hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh­hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh­hhhhhhhhhhhh

Ca m'enerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr­rrrrrrrrrrrrrrve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

J en ai maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrre

[justabrit]

How Sad some people are ..We stand back and watch children being taken from there families and a rifle put in there hand and then told to kill some one even if they dont want to ..whate or black dont make any differance to me ..inside we are the same colour!!!

[msgg81]

why cant there be a cease fire to let the aid through.

behind these fight there are leaders whoever they are they are all scums

no respect for human life at all

[chris832]

i dnt get you? the UN is there just let them do there job

[boooyaaa2u]

it's just sad how ignorant some people can be... i just wish you would say that in public without any mask on, you are weak, don't write these things on youtube, do it in public, show yourself

[michael0845]

LOSERS .

[jamil316]

USA Troops need to go in and free them just like iraq let freedom ring lolzzzzzz ohh wait theres no OIL there i geuss not

[jklasdfjdfksl]

the US/france/etc. have been funding militias and helping carry out the violence to ensure that diamonds, etc. continue to be available to them at low prices. the western role is why there is no outrage towards the congo violence, which has claimed millions of lives. at the same time, bush etc. show how they respect human rights by condemning the "evil arabs" in the sudan for darfur. both are bad situation, but this shows the US is only concerned with political posturing.

[TruthbHeard]

US fuels these wars, they sell weapons to both sides, if Bush was so noble he would push to help fight poverty not imaginary Terorism. We all kno 9/11 was done by Bush zeitgeistmovie dot com

[slayermat0]

wow stfu and dont post shit on youtube again fucking conspirist all you fucking wakos ooooh 9/11 was an inside job the american government did osama ben laden dosent exist fuck you he does fuck you he had is stnky ara friends run the planes into the towers and pentagon, the US dosent need to be the mothe to every fucking country that cires, thats why were are fucked right now and before in vietnam, all we do is get in more trouble, and africa this is always happening and will continue.

[crazycatfguy]

You could have summed that up in 4 words. I am a sociopath.

[jklasdfjdfksl]

unfortunately, much of western society encourages people to be sociopaths. it keeps them divided and worried about how they can finance their next hummer so they can show up their neighbor. the result is a country with democratic institutions that are not used by the people, but by the elite who use media and money to control the "free" people.

[notikaone]

Uness the Tutsi people feel safe, there should never be talks of stability in eastern Congo. A people that was almost exterminated in 1994 as the world watched must stay never never again, just as the jews said after the holocaust. If the world cannot protect the Tutsi, let them protect themselves.

[lebambi]

WHy does the UN send white people in COngo? doesn't the UN secretary general knows that white people equal oppression, organizers of civil wars and dangerous racists with a mind to destroy the african race? White people should not be allowed to act as representant of international organisation in africa, because they are identical to HIV/AIDS for african people. this is time for the AU to act to protect peace in COngo

[dahlakislands]

i hear ya. african need to organize themselves and stop hating eachother and get their acts together and work to better their people's standared of living. the fight of povery is really the fight to make the african man realize that the white man is no good.

[slayermat0]

just so you know most of the UN forces are arabs lol retard

[slayermat0]

most of theUN forces are ehtier arabs or Europeand fuck nuts.

[SolAurum]

Usually rebel forces in countries like these use brutal torture and genocide to further their goals, so I'm inclined to support the government on this one.

[kgc124]

Your broad generalizations are not helpful or even accurate.  'Usually' it is the governments who conduct genocide in 'countries like these', Uganda, Sudan, Zaire (this same country), Rwanda (the same Tutsi people, literally, were the victims then), etc. So I wonder why you even made that post. Are you just ignorant or are you promoting ignorance?