BitCoin = The End of the Banking Cartel - A totally De-Centralized Anonymous STABLE Currency!

[antibrainwash]

I have to say I'm quite amused at all the folks who think bitcoin can be hacked/destroyed in some way. The banksters have billions in fiat money plus access to the printing presses. Don't you think if they could have taken out bitcoin they would have done so already? First they ignore you then they laugh at you then they fight you - then you win. We're now at the fighting stage - as you can tell from the really bad press bitcoin has been getting lately. Cheers!

[SteamyThePunk]

If the value goes up 400%, and then I lose 75%, I'm back to square one. Furthermore, over the weeks you mentioned the value was still very unstable, and infact peeked, since then it's dropped and maintained it's current value. demand is dropping for the currency as a way to make quick money, and people will be pulling out, this will also cause the currency to depreciate, the drop in the value will cause others see that the bitcoin is in decline and will also pull out. Soon it will be worthless.

[ytgv3fc7]

/watch?v=c2Yi5jcx38Y Bitcoin the gathering : this is what's really going on

Anyhow now we know who started it all ... /watch?v=915pHIwUfAA

[ytgv3fc7]

Bitcoin is completely unstable. The gold standard will return to money, silver likely too as barter cash but bitcoins? No power, no stability, no deal.

[maveric2005]

Donate Bitcoins and become mor coins back :)

Donate Bitcoins : 17R42r7LE8JfWfDDmfomnm6G9Xvpsn­2VWR

[aotule]

puting hard currency into something that is virtual, that i cant hold? sounds a bit sketchy to me

[NeztyKash]

@aotule What are you talking about? you can convert it to Paypal or Western Union etc. (-_-)

[akirafactor]

@aotule like your bank account?

[MumblingMickey]

@aotule yeah it is a ponzi scheme but as I said above over 3 weeks it did increase in price making a profit... but it wouldn't be wise to treat it like an actual currency... but whilst people are dumb enough to want it...even if its fresh air or vaporware then buy it...and sell it!

However as I said its not long for this world so do that soon!

[goldengyrl2010]

It takes intelligence to understand how bitcoins work, therefore most Americans will be totally baffled and fearful.

[InsanePorcupine]

@goldengyrl2010 thats what they said about computers. The key was using children. If a child could use a computer people on mass can. basically it needs to be simplified but could very well be used by almost everyone.

[4Th3Truthful]

If the network goes underground through Russian proxies or even the BATMAN Linux based P2P ISP. Someone should setup a video on how all the miners could use BATMAN over the lines without a ISP/NSA/BANKERS looking at it. It is all about security and trust, NSA format 256-bit encrypted cyrpto-currency Bitcoin. So if they refuse to let Bitcoin work then tear down all the Cell towers and destroy all and eat all who oppose the Constitution.

[yaimavol]

This is actually not new -- it's just an expansion of a local currency idea. The Swiss have been using the WIR system of local currency since the 30's and it's worked very well for them. There are alternatives out there, folks. Do your research.

[cincofone]

@smallen642 While it's not technically fiat, it still has all the properties of monopoly money except in digital form. It's value only derives from its demand, nothing else.

The reason I bring up competing currencies is because you can just create a currency that is a clone of bitcoin with next to no effort. Any currency that you can just make a duplicate of for virtually zero cost isn't worth shit in my books.

If it was a gold-bit or silver-bit then it wouldn't be made by mining.

[cincofone]

Bitcoin is retarded. Each bitcoin has absolutely no intrinsic value (at least fiat coins and paper are worth the metal/paper their made of). Also, whats to stop me starting my own competing currency, called bitcoin2, that's based on the same algorithms? It'd have exactly the same decentralized properties and everything that make bitcoin attractive. And bitcoin3, bitcoin4,etc.

Asset-based currencies (gold, silver, etc.) are far superior to any fiat currency, no matter how decentralized it is.

[alertjustice]

It's going to be really hard to sell bitcoins to the cast of idiocracy, they actually think green dollars have a plan or system. Encryption, Hashes, computational burden is tough for the uninitiated. They'll see when the wiser get on board around them. Most of the arguments leveled against bit coins are arguments against fiat currencies in general. All fair enough.

Try buying something off Ebay with a brick of gold or a silver coin. For now we have to use a fiat currency of some kind.

[SteamyThePunk]

@alertjustice your conclusion is based on the assumption that a flat currency is good, but I'm not convinced entirely. I still think bitcoin would be easier to accept if its value was not only a product of their present demand, it makes it too much like a fad item like pogs or beaniebabies.

[alertjustice]

I feel some of the beanie babies vibe in the irc chat. But there are some big differences.

The weusecoins video is pushing the beanie baby line because they know that the real market will figure it out. You could never launder cash, buy dope, gamble overseas online with beanie babies.

I guess it all boils down to ... will enough people believe in it. A property that is all the more lacking in the dollar. Dollars which seem to be the primary market movers if you watch the charts.

[SteamyThePunk]

@alertjustice fair enough. but pogs were like currency to kids in the short time they were popular I remember buying a Gameboy with my collection of pogs (which only cost like $30 to collect so I didn't complain), and very much like bitcoins their worth among my peers was based solely on demand. Eventually pogs fell out of fashion, and they became worthless. Marketing bitcoins as actual currency will likely keep demand high longer than it was for pogs, but how much longer? They might be a fad.

[cincofone]

@SteamyThePunk You are correct, it is as large a bubble market as can be created. A bubble market is one where the value of a good is heavily overvalued. I'd say the day these could be exchanged for anything they were overvalued! The bubble market which is inflating these coins will only last while there are buyers, as soon as they depreciate people will look to dump these things quickly, most likely resulting in a currency collapse.

[cincofone]

@cincofone And when it's over, there will still be the same amount of wealth in the world, it's just that playing the market will have made some richer and some poorer. The companies that offer exchanges for bitcoins will be the ones that get crushed when the currency collapses, as they'll be left with a bunch of worthless bitcoins after giving everyone else actual money/goods.

[JasonJensen1986]

Bitcoins, being a limited currency, is just as flawed as the gold standard. It will likely have an impact, but probably only a marginal one.

[SteamyThePunk]

@JasonJensen1986 Well it helps that each bitcoin can be split into 100,000,000 pieces, and it's tracked digitally so you're not fiddling with microscopic scraps of gold. So from the limited currency stand point it's not that bad, my gripe is that it's not clear where bitcoins get their value from...

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk Bitcoins get their value from scarcity so far, but could become even stronger should people accept them. Very similar to gold really, but you're not carrying around gold f***ing bricks. Gold too would be worthless without peoples acceptance of it as currency, you can't eat it, you can't use it for tools (too soft), All it does is sit around and be shiny.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi your right, but I think most people will hold bitcoins like they do stock and it will never reach the status of cash because of human nature.

[cincofone]

@triotheyoshi Gold has many industrial uses in electronics. Also sitting around and being shiny is desirable for jewelry. The price of everything, money or not, is driven by supply/demand. Gold is also a physical, tangible good, whereas a bitcoin is not.

[jaminunit]

Bitcoins will be the only thing that can dismantle the federal reserve system.

[SteamyThePunk]

The greatest difference between bitcoin and modern currencies is that each bitcoin represents a tone of computational power used to find the bitcoin, where as modern currencies represent the work and time put into the economy divided by the number of bills available. That is to say that modern currency units represent positive constructive work, where as a bitcoin represents wastes computational power that could have been used addressing much more constructive problems. That's my criticism.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk modern currency is represented by a fucking printer.... no work was put into bringing the stuff into circulation. Modern currency is utterly and hopelessly rape-grappled. The value of the bills cannot be determined by the economy, because it's not transparent.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi the argument is that modern currency is based on the gdp divided by the estimated number of bills in circulation where as bitcoins are made worth something by the wasted computation power used to mine them that could have been used constructively. I am not defending inflation or the non transparent nature of paper currency. I'm saying that bitcoins are an economy of wasted potential. I mean do you think the value of a bitcoin covers the expense of mining the average bitcoin?

[TeamSquiggles]

Does anyone want to buy some beanie babies? This idiot on the Internet told me someday they'd be a stable source of currency! (I also have pongs).

[MumblingMickey]

@TeamSquiggles Hey they might become as stable as original star wars figures in their plastic packaging....

The story of the value of 'tulips' springs to mind here..... only as valuable as people think... and when they think something else the value disappears in a puff of logic!

[DroneFragger]

It's not stable at all, what are you retarded? The value of bitcoins rose by NINE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT in less than TWO WEEKS. THIS IS NOT A STABLE CURRENCY.

[MumblingMickey]

@DroneFragger yeah its weird that.... clearly some new definition of 'stable' and 'zero inflation' is being put forward here... If the euro or dollar rose in value by 900% there would be a total collapse of almost every other currency....since it would in comparison be worthless as a tool to buy anything.

Thankfully the total amount of bitcoins produced to date alone with all trades carried out since inception represents a seconds worth of daily trading fees in real currency!

[MumblingMickey]

I can see an obvious flaw with this system...and you mentioned it yourself.

The fiat system is certainly protected by those that have a vested interest in it.

They won't like this.

Now bitcoin is protected too...if someone hacks the system everyone would know... but thats the weak point... as soon as that happens all faith and trust in this currency will evaporative in the blink of an eye and it will fail.

And the hackers might do it solely to destroy the trust in bitcoin.

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey Hack what? In P2P systems you would have to hack every single machine and that would not effect any other machine on the network. The bad data would be dumped, same as in bittorrent transfers.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor You are assuming such an attempt would be made to infiltrate the system... I'm assuming it would be made to utterly destroy it...

A p2p system can be destroyed as easily as any other network... DOS, malware, faux updates containing whatever, rootkits or even just rumours and any other crap can bring it down. Every single node on this p2p broadcasts its IP... that alone is all thats needed.

But its not actually worthy of such action...nobody stands to benefit by doing so.

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey A faux update would be a trojan, Malware = trojan/virus. Rootkit = trojan.

"A p2p system can be destroyed as easily as any other network" Complete BS, being that a virus would be OS specific. Trojans would require the user to be gullible enough to fall for it. Rootkit being OS specific and would not have anything to do with the network architecture.

So none of your attack vectors are even significant, except a DOS which which doesn't "destroy" anything.

Pure hyperbole.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor In this case the only thing that needs to be done to destroy the entire system is to demonstrate that the system is prone to attack... it wouldn't even have to be attacked...damage to the trust is damage to the entire system.

So targeting just a few of those engaged in it would do that! Either way yes it can be infiltrated...so can bittorrent. Three is no system of networking that is immune to infiltration.

And yes people are gullible. I draw your attention to 99% of those online!

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor You could also do the same thing with real currency... in fact in case you hadn't noticed there are the same resources in this world there were 5 years ago...and even more consumers! There is MORE value...yet we are in the middle of a recession.... and as far as we know thats without any intervention in the system by anyone!

Any person claiming any system is bullet proof is to be honest talking from their arse!

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey No intervention? Two words: Quantitative Easing.

Your opinions are have gone from poor to batshit insane.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor Yeah erm... didn't that happen AFTER the monetary system collapsed?

Maybe you would be better able to explain how something done AFTER a system collapses was the cause of that collapse in the first place without invoking Cramer et al in relation to retrocausality.

clearly if you go on thinking that this system is rock solid your gonna be well disappointed.

And from what i know of math (after 23 years in physics) you're barking up the wrong tree!

but hey...prove me wrong.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor Now if you actually want to make money from bitcoins then buy a shit load... wait a month...and sell them all... and make money from the stupidity of others..cos very soon its gonna collapse around your ears.

Currency must not only be generally accepted as tender. If people don't do that...its not currency...by definition!

but hey... I'll make a point of coming back and pointing that out to you when it does okay! You can do the same when your a bitcoin billionaire... lol

[MumblingMickey]

CONT. Actually forget about that... just looked it up... total sales of bitcoins today... just 19 of the fucking things...

19! nineteen of them... one... nine...you gotta be fucking shitting me? what sort of a currency trades just 19 of them a day?

at $8.60 each? a grand total of $160 worth.... for a days trading?

Thats fucking pathetic... how the fuck could you sell bitcoins at that rate? It'd take 20 years to trade $1mil!

seriously...collect star wars figures...the market is much bigger!

[triotheyoshi]

@MumblingMickey kinda sad you judge the currency by its size, it'll grow, just you fucking wait.

[MumblingMickey]

@triotheyoshi yeah I'll wait... but I won't hold my breath doing that!

Yes a currency is valued by its size, volume, value, and purchasing power... thats not sad... thats business!

bit coin could be bought up in full by the average high street independent bank at the moment and hung on their wall just to impress investors! lol

The market for beanie babies is many times bigger!

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey BS, you can only buy what is listed for sale.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor YEah thats right... if someone offered twice the price nobody would sell? yeah sure thats the way everything works isn't it!

Give me a break...this is fucking monopoly money... it has no value..... theres no economy, reserves or anything to back it up...and even if there were its fucking tiny...

Enough time wasted on this crap! My time spent typing account for fucking days worth of bitcoin!

Go trade beer bottle caps...they are worth more...and theres more of them!

[triotheyoshi]

@MumblingMickey What makes monopoly money any worse than real money? The stuff has some power, research that shit well, and think FUCKING HARD about it. A single bitcoin is worth nine dollars now, and was 3 about 5 weeks ago. It has no intrinsic value, but is rare to get from it's source. Your dollar is a worthless slip of cheap paper being raped and abused by our government, bitcoin is unrapeable, Because it takes a lot of electricity and computing power to find one.

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey Doesn't matter old man. The young and brilliant are flying right by you getting rich in the process.

Shoulda woulda coulda

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor Yeah problem with that idea is along with qualification in physics I also have 5 compiled languages, almost all the uncompiled scripting languages and along with teaching idiots how the universe works I've been online since the late 1980's... seen a lot come and go in that time.

And I've seen shit like this come and go... so go beat your heart out... it'll be gone in a year.

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey Those who can't do, teach.

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey Still meaningless. Ever heard of Forex trading. Bitcoin is just another currency to trade to and from and to profit from.

Stupidity? You really don't know what you talking about do you?

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor ohh yeah I heard of forex trading but there is a slight difference... If you take all stocks/shares traded on a daily basis real currency trading outweighs the sum of it all by many times over.

Thats cos currency has a value! Beanie babies are a friggin currency you can trade...if thats what you think a currency is... but try exchanging them at a gas station and see how that pans out!

As I said... lets see selling this monopoly money. I'm sure you'll be a billionaire in no time!

[MumblingMickey]

@MumblingMickey Here look.. I just created a new currency in my head... I'm gonna call it bartercoins... now since there is only 3000 of them...then I'll set the exchange rate of 1 of my coins to 10,000 bitcoins... wanna swap... lol

You can use my currency to erm... buy and sell bitcoins ... (sheesh)

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey So you've heard of it. That tells me you must not know much about Forex then. Currency value?

Definition of currency: something that is used as a medium of exchange.

Do we exachange Bitcoins? All day long.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor

ohh yeah its wonderful... hurrah for bitcoin...

Of course I'm only saying that cos I just done the only thing you can do with bitcoins... buy them (three weeks ago at $7) and sell them ... (two days ago at $12)... Then take the profit and do the same with it!

But I can't actually exchange them for goods or services. So not a currency... but a good old ponsi scheme.

Remove your emotional attachment to monetary issues or you'll die poor!

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey All you proved is that your a hypocritical piece of shit.

Your reasoning is bull. Euro's for example are a currency and I can't buy a single good or service in the US without coverting them. Same thing with any other currency and no different with bitcoin.

You try to call bitcoin a ponzi scheme and talk about profit you made from it.

All you proved is that your an unethical hypocrite, human garbage.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor If people didn't make profits from ponzi schemes they would never arise to begin with.

A ponzi scheme is where the top of the pyramid always makes the money, there aren't enough people in the pyramid to allow everyone to make anything but a loss.. which is what WILL happen to bitcoin...its a math certainty. Next you can't buy anything with bitcoin at all!

What the fuck are you getting so defensive and emotional about?

also please don't bother to question my math.

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey MumblingMickey has no clothes. Don't question the idiot Mickey, he can only Mumble.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor yeah yeah...whatever... but this erm...'idiot' also has no worries about his intellect. If only I was dumber... to be honest it would make my life a lot easier.

Good luck with the monopoly money there...

[kerimil]

@MumblingMickey

wait isn't that exactly the same with traditional currencies ?? ppl buy a given currency when it's cheap and sell when its value increases :-D

[MumblingMickey]

@kerimil yeah but that also works with beany babies on ebay... plus beanie babies actually exist!

are you suggesting they are a currency?

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor Lets say word got out somehow, whether real or not that the mining software was in fact using machines as a bots in a net...and infected them with assorted viruses.

You might say... 'but its open source, people can examine that code'

Yes they can, now do you think they can all examine the code?

This system relies on gullibility as much as trust and fear is an absolutely excellent attack method.

But as I said bitcoin is safe precisely because its useless at present.

[akirafactor]

@MumblingMickey Boy are you stretching. First you said you could destroy the network with attack vectors that are not even specific to bitcoin or p2p.

Now you backpedal all the way to FUD and a smear campaign as an example and the only attack you cited is to DOS every single system connected by ip address.

Pathetic examples, while people are making stacks of money with bitcoin.

MumblingMickey is pure mumbling hyperbole.

[MumblingMickey]

@akirafactor "First you said you could destroy the network with attack vectors that are not even specific to bitcoin or p2p."

I first said nothing of the sort... go back and read my first message...

In fact you are dead right... FUD is in fact the very best way to end something that has no intrinsic value...the value is all in the opposite of FUD... lets call that Trust,Certainty and Faith...

Now would I actually have to do much to remove the TCF of Bitcoin enthusiasts? I think not...

[greeksteam]

This is revolutionary. I was very skeptical at first but the more I've researched this, the more I am impressed. This is the most blown away I have been by an ingenius idea in a long time

[1eyednewt]

The IRS isn't a Federal tax collector either. They are interest collectors for the PRIVATE Federal Reserve Bank.

[hetgow]

Its not decentralized because I can effect become a bank!

I can open a bitcoin bank/s, charge excessive interest, manipulate it by hoarding bitcoins or flooding the market w/ bitcoins to devalue its worth. I could control the inflation in this virtual world of bitcoin & nothing can stop me. I can also dictate exchange rates & make even more $. Its just another fiat money system.

IOW I can do exactly what the fed reserve banks (end the fed & IRS) are doing (which is wrong).

Just my 2 cents.

[antibrainwash]

@hetgow - You can't do any of that with bitcoin. God you people are really depressing me. I though you were more intelligent than this... at least the folks who subscribe to my channel anyway... (sigh).

[triotheyoshi]

@hetgow you could not HOARD the bitcoins.... the more you buy, the more they cost, and you will run out of money before the market runs out of bitcoins. the reason this is decentralized is because no one can simply make bitcoins super easy, and distribute them however they like. No one asshole has his finger on the bitcoins' production, and no one asshole can use deflation with said control to shake people from their possessions.

[hetgow]

@triotheyoshi you can hoard or change the worth of them was said by politicians who said the same thing about their fiat money system, the dollar.

If I cannot touch the gold & silver in the coins, then its just another fake, fiat money system = No thanks.

;)

[triotheyoshi]

@hetgow the thing he forgot to mention is that the bitcoins themselves are numbers, very long, special numbers, that answer a very hard math problem. and your computer spends days and days looking for them, therefore, the money rains down on people very randomly, instead of being given out in huge amounts as grants to hoarders & huge business. A big, powerful bank can only do so much, but because absolute control over the currency (printing&minting) is not given, it is decentral. N00B

[hetgow]

@triotheyoshi Ohhh... so replacing one fiat money system with another is ok.

Not one fiat money system has survived or can guarantee it cannot be manipulate - history shows this as fact.

So dont go trying to support a failing system with another failing fiat system. Return to the gold & silver standard or nothing.

;)

[MumblingMickey]

@hetgow Or alternatively just pick something not used commercially that there is only a certain amount of. Gold is used a lot in industry...and a lot of it is not recyclable... micro processors for example...

But if we picked something that was rare, unique and pretty hard to make... like einsteinium...or diamonds marked with radio isotopes then the base...however silly, would be solid

[hetgow]

@MumblingMickey whatever is chosen it has to have wealth & worth around the world. The ONLY thing that fits that bill is gold, silver & precious metals (which has a 100% track record). Everything else has failed &/or is not recognized as having value around the world.

I'm just saying those who say bitcoin is the answer to a failing fiat currency are forgetting its just another fiat currency (& it will fail too).

:)

[MumblingMickey]

@hetgow Well we can't use god any more... previously it had no intrinsic value cos it wasn't used in industry... it was used cos it was a shiny indestructibly metal that people liked.

Nowadays its used for other purposes...which makes it not just a commodity...but a non replaceable one that is being used up!

Its not a coincidence that the gold standard was dropped when gold began to be used in electronics.

But I agree an 'anchor' is required and bitcoin is certainly not an anchor!

[triotheyoshi]

@hetgow The switch to dollars was done because carrying around gold is a bit barbaric and inflexible. yes, the system would eventually fail, but it would last a hell of a lot of longer than the rest. Go look up the definition of Fiat currency... Fiat isn't non-gold money, but money that has value because someone is holding a gun, saying that it is valuable... because of regulations. Bitcoins have intrinsic value just like gold, because they're rare. without rarity, gold too would be nothing.

[hetgow]

@triotheyoshi Rare = worth? I have a rare pen but it does not have worth. Funny how I have traveled the world & can buy anything anywhere with G&S but not with bitcoin. Its a 2 bit wanna-be fiat currency.

Isnt it interesting that bitcoin is not considered a precious metal; 1 more thing our founding fathers intended currency to be based on G&S but I guess you know more than them? I think not.

If you want to delude yourself = fine but dont kid yourself its fiat too.

[akirafactor]

@hetgow

Bitcoin is decentralized. Has no interest. You would have to buy Bitcoins to hoard them. With a 21 million limit you can't inflate Bitcoins because you don't have the authority to create more Bitcoins above that. You don't control exchange rates anymore than any other money you don't control either.

[cycletrade]

@hetgow You can't do that. But, what you can do is repackage the bitcoin open source, name it dumbcoin and run it to the public. You, as the starter of dumbcoin can have early start to mine the new currency. When it raise the value, cash in for real dollar and start over with dickcoin.

[MumblingMickey]

@cycletrade You think they haven't thought about that already? All good ponzi schemes have one thing in common... it relies on the 'sucker born every minute' mentality... but I'd say it'll continue to increase in value until they make another few bucks from it... remember the originators have already made a bundle... so everything else is now a bonus...

but I'd say theres a margin in it if you buy and close off every couple of days... that way when the collapse comes it won't matter so much.

[hetgow]

Hmmm.... No thank you.

Any fiat currency can be manipulated easier in the virtual world than in the physical. You might as well use World of Warcraft currency. The problem is bitcoin is not backed by precious metals & is indeed another fiat currency. Your purchasing fiat currency ($) to purchase bitcoin (another fiat currency).

Its so easy to manipulate bitcoin, flood the market with bitcoins or buy & hold to drive up the worth.

Nothing special = another fiat currency.

[greeksteam]

@hetgow FYI, World of Warcraft currency is still centralized. The government could go to Blizzard and tell them to shut down all of their servers essentially destroying the currency if they wanted to. Although wanting a decentralized currency is nothing new, using P2P to have a truly decentralized currency is a revolutionary idea. I'm not sure if bitcoins themselves will last, but if they don't something else similar will replace them. Pandora's box has been opened.

[triotheyoshi]

@hetgow Bitcoin is backed by the trust that someone will accept it as payment. but the paper money has a MAJOR disadvantage and that is that it is debt currency, borrowed from the feds and requiring interest. Al in all, do summore god damn research.

[hetgow]

@triotheyoshi sorry but when you resort to swearing, that means your out of intelligent things to say.

With that said, thanks for the discussion.

Bye

[OCSnowBoarder]

Thanks for the suggestion of using a blunt object... LOL I'm sorry you are not getting the feed back of choice. One of my job duties, at work, is software developement and I'm fully aware on how P2P systems works. Thank you for sharing and posting.

[SuperCleaton]

this is bull shit sorry i like the other videos but this will never work

[antibrainwash]

I just gotta say I am SHOCKED and APPALLED at the comments on this thread. I am REALLY DISAPPOINTED in you guys! SHAME SHAME SHAME on you as you are guilty of the same thing all these de-facto agents are guilty of - A total unwillingness to research new information.

[SteamyThePunk]

@antibrainwash I don't think you've thought too critically about bitcoins. I mean the process of finding bitcoins in and of itself is a huge waste of time computational power, and effort. So basically each bitcoin's worth is equal to that WASTE put into it. How are we to equate this wasted computational power into other modern currencies which are based on positive constructive work put into an economy. Even if the units of modern currency are inflated like crazy, at least it's not waste based.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk Bitcoins are BROUGHT INTO THE SYSTEM by mining, just like gold, but can be used as currency otherwise... as in... hiring people to construct stuff with it... the currency is very strong and the software behind it is open source... you have it all wrong, the whole mining stuff is only to put the bitcoins into circulation. not all bitcoins are mined, and currently, the currency is already strong, running at 7$ per bitcoin. and each bitcoin can be split into 100,000,000 pieces.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi I understand that there are a finite number of coins in the protocol, but that is irrelevant to my argument. Bitcoins are valued due to the artificial mining process that doesn't even need to be there. It would be better if the mining process benefited something like folding at home or something and its worth was deprived from that.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk the mining process is relevant, if there wasn't a limiting rate of introduction into the system, bitcoins would be worthless.... think of gold, it wouldn't be worth shit if it was everywhere, and how would folding be better? You have all of the puzzle pieces here, you spent some time researching... maybe, but you sure as hell haven't put them together, put some more thought into this, the system is ingenious, it is unabusable and untrackable, it is a great currency, but not used.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi Why is it worth anything if introduced slowly when compared to introduced all at once? Demand, that's the ONLY thing. If bitcoins are only worth anything based on demand, then it wont be very stable when the bitcoin limit is reached (around 21 million bitcoins in circulation). The link into folding or some other distributed computation network is that "mining" would actually have a product output, and a bitcoin could have worth based on that product rather than demand alone.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk DEMAND??!! BTC's value isn't based SOLELY on demand! Give it some F***ING CREDIT!! the price has jumped from 9 to 23 dollars a coin in the last god damn 48 hours!!! I don't see what the hell you are trying to tell me! It would take hundreds of years to hit the 21 million limit! The mining does have an output, and that is the block of BTC itself. What you speak of is barter... folded swans or whatever... don't make a very good medium of exchange. Nobody wants to carry 500

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk Think about it... Why is gold more valuable than dirt? You could spraypaint a bunch of dirt yellow and it still wouldn't be gold.  RARITY IS PART OF IT, not just demand. If everyone is just folding at home, nothing gets done, and there are a million... cranes everywhere. That's where computers come in, they don't take away manual labor. So there's a strength over... fucking paper cranes.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. Scarcity is a factor of demand, folding at home has nothing to do with origami, and you have shown ignorance in many facets of economy and how currency works, since you won't actually engage in a constructive argument I'm not going to bother discussing this further with you.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk well.... will you at least explain the folding? You left a wide hole open there for assumption.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi if you bothered to Google it you'd know that folding at home is a distributed computing approach to calculate the folding of proteins for use in pharmaceuticals research.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk OK... so I did some looking.. which I should have done in the first place, and folding currency, (ADJECTIVE, NOUN) not to be mistaken for (VERB, NOUN), are just bills that can be traded for gold, or silver, or whatnot. I took you for an idiot, which I shouldn't have done. OK,, now that that is clear, I can find the weaknesses of F.C., and point them out..... OK, F.C. can be counterfeited, while BTC can not. More FC can be made than promised gold, which allows for abuse.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi that definition is outdated as currency isn't directly interchangeable with any raw good. Sure bitcoins are more secure but they still do not represent anything of worth other than themselves, so they have no intrinsic value outside of their demand.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk A BIG HOLE IN INTRINSIC VALUE. What makes gold valuable? you can't eat it, it is highly useless for construction or tools. It pretty much only looks pretty, and that isn't much. Gold also only relies on demand, and has the illusion of being intrinsic. OH BTW, you leave another hole open, a question which you must assume that I need answered, What is folding currency now, and why "at home". You leave f***ing potholes everywhere for me to trip up in.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi I'm not defending gold based currencies please actually read my posts if you want to argue, on the same note I've already explained folding @ home has nothing to do with currency right now, but accomplishes work that is valuable. Just use Google and stop noon raging at me because of your ignorance.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk OH.. I am not raging, you are imagining emotion into my text, and you are right, bitcoin does only have the value of demand, but it's a currency that is very good at being a currency. The price of a bitcoin is now about 35$, and people are going to be jumping on the boat very quickly, I suggest you do too. my father has already quadrupled his 600$ investment. OK, now that I am done blabbing, what are you arguing exactly?

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi it's difficult to not read emotion into profanity riddled text, how can you arguing with me and not know what my argument is? Here it is in a nutshell: bitcoins only get value from demand, as such they're less stable than a stock. Most people invest in them right now because they believe the value will go up, so demand is up, and the value goes up. Eventually it'll level out, people will sell, demand drops, value drops (and so on), it will collapse. Not a good currency.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi Being purely based on demand is a bad idea, the only other thing you can compare it to (loosely) is a stock but the main difference between a bitcoin and a stock is that a stock's fluctuation of demand and value comes from the public's perceived value of the company represented by the stock. Bitcoins don't have that when their demand is their perceived value. Once value or demand in the bitcoin levels out or decreases, it'll just spiral down to nothing.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi However, my initial argument did state that I felt that the bitcoin economy was an economy of waste, this was based on the idea that all the computers trying to mine bitcoins are effectively wasting computational energy when that energy could have been put to better use on distributed computational networks like folding@home. Further it would have been better for bitcoins to be attached to the work done in these networks. So that their value would have support other than demand.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk AH, I see what you mean, you want bitcoins to be a digital product or representation of accessable computational power, you could make one disappear by making a bunch of computers do work for you. I can imagine no other meaning for your words. However, there are TONS of unused computational power in the network alone. Bitcoins is one of the only things that uses that other than gaming. Folding at home itself is a network which will complete its goal long before bitcoin.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk anyhow, there is a problem with the Idea that bitcoins would not be "waste-based". The whole bitcoin network would become nought, because there would have to be some sort of issuing man, or an issuing program, rather than a mining program. Either the system would become void because it now has an issuer (it's main point would have been taken away.)" or the system would spring a big-ass, untraceable leak. could prolly hack self BTC's with cheat engine.

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi Okay you're not reading my posts. That's the only way you could still be misunderstanding me. The argument is that I think the production of bitcoins should be related to some distributed computations network (such as folding at home) whose products can be linked to the value of bitcoins thus supporting them and giving them SOMETHING that gives them worth. I'm not going to bother arguing the point with you further however, as you just don't seem to be able to... read?

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk I am reading your comments, it is just not as obvious as you may think to put it all together in 30 seconds. So you are thinking that instead of generating coins based on... generating the coins, the generation of the coins is based on the computation spent in a network that actually gets stuff done, and coins are... rewarded somehow for the computation. I am not going to put up an argument, just make sure I decompressed this right before I do.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk OH... the Youtube 500 character limit is so terrible. I need to find some good debate forums.

[triotheyoshi]

@SteamyThePunk OH, and we're not having a shortage of fucking electricity... how often do you have blackouts and power shortages because people are using it all, oh that's right, ONLY IN POOR-ASS COUNTRIES!!!

[SteamyThePunk]

@triotheyoshi I'm not talking about electricity, I'm talking about what better use the computational power could have been put too, which has less to do with electricity and more to do with the time and computational facility of the computers wasted on finding these imaginary "coins" in a artificial protocol made up to emulate the mining of a natural resource. I mean why is the mining necessary?

[antibrainwash]

I'm not trying to insult you guys - I'm hoping you'll say "why is he saying I'm ignorant... am I missing something?" - Think about it before knee-jerking back at me.

[antibrainwash]

@CP91311 - @CP91311 - Okay I watched it and I'm betting you did NO RESEARCH EITHER - PEOPLE WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM? DO YOU EVERY PUT NEW INFORMATION IN YOUR HEAD'S BEFORE MAKING A DECISION- DO YOU RESEARCH BEFORE THESE IDIOTIC KNEE JERK RESPONSES.... AAAHHAHHHARGGGG! AS I'VE SAID MANY TIMES.... THE PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM - LOOK IN THE DAMN MIRROR YOU'RE THE PROBLEM.... STOP BEING SO IGNORANT - DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE MAKING DECISIONS!!!

[OCSnowBoarder]

It's another trap... I disagree with you buddy! Any 3rd party control/management is bad... building 7 had all the information. If you're into animes check out "Spice and wolf" Free market trade is the only safe option. I'm just saying...

[antibrainwash]

@OCSnowBoarder - Ugh... the ignorance on this thread is unbelievable. I'm guessing you did no research into this either. THIS IS FREE MARKET TRADE DUDE... it's about as FREE AS YOU'RE GOING TO GET!

[antibrainwash]

@OCSnowBoarder - When did I mention anything about "3rd party control/management" - do you know what "De-Centralized" means? Unbelievable.... please take a large blunt object and BEAT YOURSELF with it. If you are unconscious you're not able to spout complete ignorance on my youtubes.

[PYRO200055412]

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is completely fucking retarded. Who do you think really is behind this? A virtual currency would be just as unstable and traceable as the FRN which is essentially a virtual currency as well. The only thing we had that was a formidable opponent of the FRN was the Liberty dollar currency which was promptly shutdown and the owners imprisoned. The best thing would be no money, a food commodity backed currency or a pure silver currency.

[antibrainwash]

@PYRO200055412 - So I see that you actually went and read over the website and did your due-diligence - NOT! Your comment tells me you make decisions based on the current rocks in your head. You are the type to not place any new information in your noggin - regarding a new idea - before making a decision about it. Your comment is therefore null and void on it's face.

[PYRO200055412]

@antibrainwash Yes. I haven't done my due diligence. I have no idea what I'm talking about which is why everyone seems to be agreeing with your premise. Lol. This currency can only be fully utilized for online gambling sites, porn, novelty items, web hosting and shit like that. Accessing the real "cash" value of it it quite limited. It's nothing but Facebook funny money.

[fabianhjr]

@PYRO200055412 There is a client for android and a bounty for an iphone one. Feel free to download and try it. People are buying pizza and food.

There is even a lawyer working for Bitoins! billroundsjd

[antibrainwash]

@antibrainwash - As if you've even read a word I've written here... I'm just going to tell you you're wrong - and if you did more research on it you would find that out. You can buy/sell trade and utilize bitcoin like just about any other currency considering you can buy a visa debit card with bitcoin which is then accepted everywhere... however I'm sure these comments also will be ignored.

[triotheyoshi]

@PYRO200055412 ONE, it can not be traced, the whole network is P2P, peer to peer, very similar to bittorrent, which evidently, CANNOT BE TRACED! TWO, it IS STABLE, not as stable as gold or silver, but stable nonetheless. The currency is randomly rained down upon the population instead of arbitrarily distributed at the whim and will of a MINT OR BANK. IT CANNOT BE MANIPULATED. THREE It has advantages over gold and silver that come with digitalization. That is its' trump card!

[antibrainwash]

@CP91311 - Your "wallet" can be stored online as a backup.

[antibrainwash]

@CP91311 - Bro I know what an EMP is and I know what you're getting at. This is hands down the best alternative that we have available to us. Search "printing money out of thin air"