I find it hugey ironic that in this video Douglas Murray is explaining the need to be rational in one's assesment of any group in society, he says "we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people". In the comments many of his fanboys are dismissing whole swathes of people by saying things like "I came to see what a bunch of self-serving ignorant humourless bigots the Left Wing really are." People are so moronic sometimes it is comedic.
Oh no. The dreaded "racist" death touch label. As a former militant hardcore leftist activist involved in "racial justice", you're all being duped and exploited by Marxists. But there's nothing you can really do about it because the Left controls our societies with an iron fist. The long term goal must be to overthrow the Left in the West. Only then can we save our civilization from the slow motion suicide orchestrated by the Left.
Well said. As an accident of birth I happen to be white, male & hetrosexual. All my life I had been a leftie: anti-racist, anti-sexist, gay lib, anti-capitalist etc. - Then, when I turned visibly middle-aged I was shocked & horrified to find other lefties automatically assuming that I was "the enemy": attacking me before they even knew what I was about; trying to prevent me from speaking etc.
I came to see what a bunch of self-serving ignorant humourless bigots the Left Wing really are.
Secularists have no chance of stopping Islamisation. Muslims will outbreed you in your own nation. CATHOLIC STATE for the future.....this alone will stop your secular government's secret plans for Islamisation.
Douglas Murray has the ability to be obscenely posh but still connect with the working man. That's an achievement in itself; it's like he perfectly articulates what ordinary people are thinking.
Douglas does not support the EDL !!! And never has, yes he is against shariah law, like most normal people are, but that doesn't mean he supports the EDL !!!!
Halo polishing indeed. It's only ever the Left that take the stance of supporting the oppression of freedom of thought and speech of anyone it considers 'right-wing', yet the right-wing never does this to the left. There is a real streak of fascist intolerance about the leftist mindset that seeks to close down opposition. As Noam Chomsky said: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
Having just looked at the comments on this video , i've come to a full conclusion that murray is right about the left in the way they ect , many times down me local I've had debates with them , its too much for me they froth and shout and wont listen to what you have to say , I hate them stuck up middle class bastards
@cambershots Perfectly put Comrade ! LOL Sham pain socialists are the most vile hypocrites. TV arts entertainment , are riddled with them (Disproportionate a mis representation of Society)Fat cat luvvies with their cloned patronising puke ( they haven't the balls / or brains to dissent from the Establishment= neo McCarthyism). The educated working class stand on our own 2 feet,are scum sucking pigs to them. Well I'd rather be scum,sucking pig, than pig sucking scum..
@cambershots i say here! here! from the States :P love how you guys speak :)) lol great video by the way he is speaking what is right not what is popular
@cambershots Tell me about it, im not pro right wing, but these stupid tree hugging lefties are the most brainwashed of them all.
They will start an argument just to win, and shout things like racist and nazi along the way, there is just no reason or compromise with them at all, and the sooner they wake up and smell the coffee the sooner we can sort our differences out without fear of being labelled.
Until then i'm gonna go right ahead and call them fucking idiots.
The false prophet Muhamad was a deranged warlord who united the tribes using the delusionary power of religion behind him so he could continue to rape, loot, thieve, and murder his way around with 'god given' impunity. A mass murdering sadistic and perverted psychopath, nothing else.
And this is the role model and perfect human according to Muslims. European politicians abuse our democracy to protect the teachings of a Bedouin Hitler
douglas murray bends over for the zionists! ZIONISM IS A DIRTY EVIL RELIGION! READ the HATE in the ZIONIST TALMUD against (Mary & Jesus) THEN read how the Koran DEFENDS the Virgin Mary & Christ!
@whitechristian1066 Isn't it great to have the right to insult the belief of others without fear of violence? No one is going to threaten your life or call you name like racist or phobic. Doens't that feel great? Well, when Islam stops threatening others with violence for insulting and disagreeing with it, and insisting on silencing freedom of speech, then maybe people will not be so against it.
@sonia0865 What are you talking about? All you are is a Zionist Anti-Christ! Why don't you & your Zionist Immigrants fuck off back to the eastern european ghettos you came from! CHRIST ARYAN WARRIOR!
@whitechristian1066 Isn't it great to have the right to insult the belief of others without fear of violence? No one is going to threaten your life or call you name like racist or phobic. Doens't that feel great? Well, when Islam stops threatening others with violence for insulting and disagreeing with it, and insisting on silencing freedom of speech, then maybe people will not be so against it.
Douglas has clearly stated that he is not a supporter of the EDL multiple times. In this video he is merely giving an example of the psyche behind individuals on the left who may judge the EDL who he merely uses as an example. He specifically says that he is not making a judgement on the EDL in the actual video. Misleading and idiotic title that will only damage Douglas' representation unfairly.
He's not racist, he has never commented about someone's race. He has commented a lot about religion. Religion and race are two completely separate issues.
I'm clever enough and have read enough of his material to know that he lives in a naiive, carefully constructed bubble, a bubble mastered over centuries of elitist British education. Neo-conservative... If the Axis powers won WW2 he'd be a neo-socialist, if communism globalised instead of capitalism he'd be a neo-communist. If he went to a state school he'd probably be a rent boy. He's a bandwagon jumper, clueless about the reality of how his fellow Britons live and the impact his ideology has.
Murray makes my blood boil. Spoilt etonian who sucks cock, living in his own bubble. A man who has no idea about real human life, love to see where he'd be without rich parents and brainwashing elitist education. Growing up in a 2 room council flat in fanily of 5, growing up surrounded by inner-city smackheads, prostitues, peados, poverty, muggings, drug abuse etc. He'd get the shit kicked out of him, little faggot. I hope he dies.
Murray is a little boy jumped up by the zionists, the zionists dont realise that they are so clearly exposed by using this little boy with a brain of an ant, simply getting him to repeat their zionist mantra won't make him any more credible
@DancinJim "The left ALWAYS..." – what more can I say? You really don't get it.
How you fail to see the irony in accusing me of biased against Murray whilst at the same time spouting bias subjective opinions about "the left" is beyond me.
Whilst I've found the ever shrinking circles your argument has been spinning in rather amusing, the amusement has faded into boredom.
Finally - Murray is to Hitchens as a Rover is to a Ferrari - Similarities yes, the same thing? I'm afraid not.
@K411UM You still can't see it, bless you. It's ok to make generalisations...when they are correct. Murray is correct, however those who claim that all who want a debate over immigration, etc. are racist, are not. Murray can generalise, because his generalisations have a truth to them. The generalisations of the reverse, are entirely false. You fail to see the shift. Also, the Ferrari comment was silly, and gives me an opportunity, which I will hold back from. Murray is the heir to Hitchens.
@DancinJim - Yes the left speak out in favour of minorities, as a large concern for maintaining equality and human rights is inherently leftist – they do NOT always GENERALISE (which, if you listen, is what Murray said) – a tendency to generalise is not implied by anything within leftist ideology and so any claim that the left does generalise more than any other group would require empirical research and actual statistics to back it up.
@K411UM Once again, Murray is making a CORRECT generalisation about a majority, whereas the Left always make an incorrect generalisation about a minority. As for Murray/Hitchens. It's as clear as day. You can't see it because you don't like Murray. It's your vision at fault. The fact I love Hitchens and think he is an amazing speaker and writer, and I also can see how Murray is following in his footsteps, plus all the others who have said this, is al the proof needed.
@HULLOHULLO15 Who doesn't? All they do is detest others. They adhere to their marxist dogma, they divide people into categories, and then they decide whom they love and whom they hate, who is to blame, who is to be punished, and so on. I hate all authoritarians and leftists are probably the worst, because they don't even have the guts to admit it. They prefer to hide behind the 'will of the people' and the 'good of the people', by 'people' meaning 'marxist commitee'... It's a mental disorder.
@HULLOHULLO15 I am neo-communist far left winger that hates political correctedness, liberal pandering to muslims, and liberal self-hatred and the former soviet stalinist regime... I think you missed Douglas Murray's point about making sweeping assumptions...
@vkvladman i'm a neo-communist fat left winger who hates everything ever written by karl marx, believes in private enterprize, and supports sara palin.
with all due respect, yes we english need some kind of heritage to keep hold of and the large growth of different ethnic groups has affected this yet many edl memebers use violence as a way of protesting. it seems most members use this violence and attention seeking as a way of ridding their own guilt of not trying hard enough to get a well paid job which they claim is been given to foreigners.
@DancinJim - Hitchens has his moments, I disagree with him on many issues but on others, water-boarding for example, I agree with him (Murray I think you'll find, disagrees with Hitchens on this).
Also, as many problems as I have with Hitchens, he is incomparably better than Murray. I have some respect for Hitchens even when I disagree with him. The same is not true for Murray.
@K411UM Murray is younger and has 40 or so years to mature until he is Hitchens' age. It is bizarre and illogical that you respect the Hitch and not Murray, as it is recognised that Murray is the 'heir to Hitchens', in terms of speaking style, opinions, etc.
@DancinJim - I disagree with what you believe the 'majority of the left' say as without evidence it is merely an opinion, just as is my viewpoint. Calling either anything more is wrong without providing evidence.
As for it "not being a big deal", whilst in another discussion I might (possibly) agree with you, in this particular argument Murray is making a critique of generalisation. In such a context, generalising anyone in any way IS a big deal as it serves to contradict his entire argument.
@K411UM I said it could be reworded that "many on the left feel this way". This is because it is true. No statistics are needed to prove it - it's an obvious trend in the Left in Britain. Anytime you speak out on anything regarding a minority, it is always an organisation from the Left who tries to counter you. It's obvious.
I think basic common sense and an understanding of the current leftist mindset (and a daily leafing through The Guardian) should make it clear that the majority of the left view any criticism of Islamism to be a needless distraction from more pressing issues, and view most criticisms of Islam to be racist.
If I was to tell you that I believe crowds of anti-fascist protesters should set their sights on al-Muhajiroun rather than the EDL, you'd probably think "This guy hates Asians!"
On a personal note I do not find Murray impressive in the slightest; there are far more intelligent and eloquent public figures who share his opinions & who do not make such basic mistakes - even in mainstream British politics. And frankly, being less impressive than British politicians is no mean feat.
I know I banged on, but you provided me with a lot to go on haha!
@K411UM While you are entitled to view Murray however you want to, I vehemently disagree. I've watched Murray many times since he made a great account of himself on Question Time a few years ago. I've seen him win countless debates (both in terms of points made and audience votes) and speak in a very concise, thoughtful, confident and convincing manner. The moment I saw him I considered him the heir to Hitchens. Now you will tell me you don't like Hitchens either. That will explain a lot... lol.
@DancinJim Without Murray citing any empirical evidence to suggest that “the left ALWAYS do this” his point does not stand - it is merely an opinion. Whilst not to necessarily dismiss his point, his way of presenting it was poor.
It WOULD be a generalisation to say all those in the “far right” are prone to violence just as it is a generalisation for you to say “as a rule the majority of leftists tending to attack anyone who speaks out against radical Islam” as these are not traits inherent to either political opinion. Short of your being able to cite any empirical evidence to support such a claim, I would be extremely reluctant if I were you to make such statements.
@K411UM I would say that it is not a rash generalisation to say that the Far Right does tend to be racist. Just as like Murray said, the Left tends to be condemning of anyone who speaks out with their concerns over Islamism. The worst you can really accuse him of is not being more specific and stating that "many on the Left" have this tendency, instead of wording it to sound like they all do. Doesn't seem a big deal to me, compared to what he was complaining about.
@Dancinjim The “far right” is, by definition, separatist & prone to espousing racism. It is no more a generalisation to say that the majority the “far right” are in favour of racial/religious segregation, than to say the majority of the “far left” favour complete equality. These concepts are implied by these terms. Right wing politics in general on the other hand, which is what I believe what you were referring to, do NOT necessarily imply segregation or readily espouse racism.
@K411UM I should clarify my last post... When I said far right I was actually tired and not concentrating. I was not referring to the far right at all. I was thinking about the general everyday groups, not necessarily even in the right, that feel concern about Islamism. I feel the point I made stands up perfectly with this correction made.
@K411UM Maybe I should have been clearer as you seem to have missed the point entirely. Forget empirical evidence - we all know that you can find a rule that summarises a majority, even if it's not 100% accurate. His generalisation is largely correct, whereas the Left's generalisations are flawed and incorrect. That's the point. You can say you hate generalisations altogether, but I actually think when they are largely accurate as Murray's is, they are useful. When they are flawed they are not.
Quite right, he is not "in" support of the EDL but he is "in" support of an all inclusive debate or political arena, that will never be solved if a section of it is not given a voice. The EDL are a reactionary group, they were directly caused by Muslims in Luton chanting at the funeral parades of British soldiers, screaming
"your troops are in hell" amongst battle cries of allahu ackbar. Whilst surrounded by British police protecting "their" freedom of speech and right to assemble.
Douglas isn't actually in support of the EDL as the title of this video suggests... He is actually in support of freedom of expression and does not begrudge any group their opinion (including the EDL) unless they are overtly racist like the BNP. Very misleading title.
@1878EFC2008 Nope. He doesn't say "I support what the EDL stands for" at any point in this video (or the full, unedited video, which I have also seen). He is making a broader point regarding not dismissing whole groups of people as racists or harbouring dangerous views, using the EDL as an example. I agree with him in what he is saying, but it clearly is not at any point a glowing endorsement of the EDL - he even states that there have been BNP-elements exposed within the EDL...
No he doesnt say that but I can of made the assumption based on what he said. He supports the EDL's message, he supports kicking out the racist elements... what do you think he disagrees with?
@1878EFC2008 That's the trouble - you are making an assumption based on no facts. Also, your original statement was that :"He says he supports what the EDL stands for, therefore he supports the EDL." You are now admitting that you made the assumption and he did not directly say that. With all due respect, as much as you are entitled to your opinion, it is an ill-measured response based on nothing but your own guesses, with no evidence to back it up.
@1878EFC2008 You said: "He says he supports what the EDL stands fo, therefore he supports the EDL." You then admitted: "he doesnt say that but I can of made the assumption based on what he said". Now you have backtracked again and said: "i'm basing the assumption on the fact that he's on record in this very video as saying he supports the EDL". The reason you are puzzled, is because you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You have contradicted yourself twice and must be confused.
No, no, no, you're getting all confused. He does say he supports what the EDL stand for; what i said he didn't say was " I love dem EDL guys!" The 2 things do not contradict each other in the slightest.
This isn't rocket science so I don't know why you're all confused.com.
He says he supports what the EDL stand for, no sharia law, end of islamofascism (abusing gays, women, other religions etc). not just in this video but in many others.
And let me just remind you, you have now twice said that you have ASSUMED this about him. Anyone of any intelligence knows that an assumption will never stand up in a debate and furthermore would seen with no credibility, as it is backed up by no evidence whatsoever, other than the biased hunch of the person who assumes it.
@1878EFC2008 You need to look up the definition of what a 'supporter' is. Think about supporters of individual people, e.g. supporters of other political parties. Think how they behave and act - endorsing and promoting. Murray has not done any of these things with the EDL. Had you said he was in support of every person having the right to express genuine concerns freely, without being labeled a racist, I'd have agreed with you. But that wouldn't specifically be the EDL, it would be ANYONE.
@1878EFC2008 ...which brings us back full-circle to my original post, where I said: "He is actually in support of freedom of expression and does not begrudge any group their opinion (including the EDL) unless they are overtly racist like the BNP." So there we have it, nice and tidy ending. Job done.
@1878EFC2008 Here's the final chance for you: Give me the time reference in this video, where he explicitly states, in those very terms, that he supports the EDL. It's impossible, because he doesn't say that. The reason? Because he doesn't support them. I've already proven that previously, but this should be the only way of making it clear to you - if you have no proof and you are merely assuming (which means "to take for granted or without proof"), then your claims have no credibility.
@1878EFC2008 I asked for you to provide me with a clear and overt verbal expression of support for the EDL. You can't, because he has never and will never say that he supports the EDL. Once again, you fail to see this in the context of his entire speech, because you're obsessed with the idea that this is some great endorsement of the EDL. He's using them as an example. He does not support them. I quote: "Let me give you an example - the English Defence League". They are just an example for him.
I probably couldn't provide you with a 'clear and verbal expression' (!) of Goebbel's support for Hitler. I just, you know...kind of make that assumption... don't you?
They aren't just an example... he goes on to say in that very sentence that he agrees with their stance against the burka, their opposition to islam's persecution of gays, women and jews and their olicy of hrowing out racists.
@1878EFC2008 That's it... Keep clutching at straws. You lost this a long time ago, the moment you realised you couldn't prove me wrong so resorted to name-calling. I love the way you try to form a strange analogy with the idea that you "probably couldn't form a 'clear and verbal expression' of Goebbel's support for Hitler". Yes, actually, you quite clearly could - seeing as there is a wealth of historical documents to use as evidence. You have no evidence, as all you have is your assumptions.
@1878EFC2008 If you need to tell yourself that, go ahead little one. I already one when it went full-circle. Just stumbled back across the same video whilst enjoy various Douglas Murray videos. Notice you didn't come up with a rebuttal. Same old, same old then... lol
@1878EFC2008 Simply put - no, you didn't. You lost miserably, the moment you allowed the debate to go full-circle back to my original point. You started poorly, attempted a revival mid-way by trying to muddy the waters, then lost again miserably. Fortunately, the entire string is here for everyone to see how wrong you are. I simply wanted to add insult to injury by pointing out the case study example of how two people who are entirely unsupportive of each other can still agree on something :)
@1878EFC2008 HAHA! You fell into the trap! You're quite right - you didn't allow the debate to go anywhere - which is precisely why we ended up right where we started, despite all your stalling techniques, attempts to muddy the waters, change tact... etc! I have dominated you beyond all expectations. This is perfect. Utterly, utterly, perfect. I am going to print this thread to PDF so I can keep it forever- what a beautiful victory for me! Thanks for being so braindead. Easy victory for me :) x
You're conceding that the debate's direction is down entirely to me. Whilst i have a vastly superior intellect to you and the argument's progress , therefore, is mainly due to my whims and demands, i cannot control what you say.
Ergo, this debate's impasse was brought about by you and your inability to deal with the points i presented with great clarity and intellect.
@1878EFC2008 You miss the entire point once again. No surprise, but amusing, as you pretend you know what's going on. There has been no conceding - yet you walked right into my trap, which was rather handy to say the least! Your come-back? The usual grasping at straws that we have become so accustomed to! What a laughable individual you are. Well, I say individual, but everything you say is manufactured and run-of-the-mill. Not original. So really, you're just another loser who can't keep up...
@1878EFC2008 I own an iPhone. Yet bizarrely your arguement contradicts itself, as it's far quicker to type on a keyboard than it would be on an iPhone, and it would also mean you would have to be obsessed with YouTube conversations and check them constantly in order to use the iPhone to reply. You lose again. Twice. Ouch!!!!!
P.s. You can't print internet conversations, because: A) You probably don't have print to PDF function, and B) You have never won an arguement. LOLOLOLOLOLOL! :) XXX
You don't have an iphone, please don't lie. Tbh, you're an intellectual midget and i won't be wasting anymore of my valuable time on your 6th form rhetoric.
Come back if you ever graduate from uni and maybe we can have a more grown up and intelligent discussion.
@1878EFC2008 With a view to your ineptitude, the topic can be brought to a close with the conclusion that you have made no points whatsoever, I've embarrassed you throughout, printed the entire conversation to PDF to show others, and can come away comfortably knowing how superior I am to you. Not that I needed reinforcement, as let's face it, you're about as intellectually-threatening as a pre-pubescent smurf who is learning to cut his toenails. Ok, I'll be honest, I'm jealous you're blue :) xxx
@1878EFC2008 You can't print internet conversations, because: A) You probably don't have print to PDF function, and B) You have never won an arguement.
@1878EFC2008 Just to answer your question: "what do you think he disagrees with?" You once again make the mistake of assuming that he either agrees or disagrees with their organisation. He shows he is impartial in the quote I already gave you: "does that mean that they aren't racist or they are...? I'm not making a definitive point, I'm just saying these things are extremely complex and we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people." Being impartial is not the same as support.
That question is clearly a rhetorical one you utter, utter idiot!
JEsus Christ, that was possibly your silliest post yet, please think before you respond again as you clearly aren't very bright, so consequently your replies need a lot of work before they give me enough intellectual fat to chew on.
@1878EFC2008 It is absolutely absurd, in the most ironic of senses, that someone like you, who cannot muster the intelligence to understand such a basic point as this, is calling me an idiot. You're one of these people who bite off more than they can chew, then simply keep shouting idiot when the other person proves them wrong, as I have done. The fact you've got so angry also shows how you're annoyed that you've been proven wrong. That's probably the fifth time you've shown that weakness.
@1878EFC2008 Re: the rhetorical Q: It is, but not in the sense you want it to be. He answers with an impartial view, far from endorsing them: "I'm not making a definitive point, I'm just saying these things are extremely complex and we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people". Saying we must not dismiss swathes of people is true, but it isn't related solely to the EDL, nor is he saying that he is making a definitive point as to whether or not they are a racist organisation.
It's not related solely to the EDL. Of course it isn't. It DOES relate to them. Thank you for admitting this as well.
Progress is being made and i'm proud of you.
Still some way to go though, a man who points out he supports the EDL's objectives, commends their policy of throwing out racists and refutes the lazy MSM agenda of porttraying them as racist yobs = Support.
@1878EFC2008 Also, if you were referring to your question being rhetorical, let me say this: It is not the rhetoric that's the issue. You make the mistake of once again assuming that he has to agree or disagree with them. You should take care to remember that he is an impartial observer making a point about the Left labelling people unfairly as racist, and happens to be using the EDL as an example where they did this. He's not making a political endorsement of any party or organisation.
@1878EFC2008 cont... He also points out they have tried to kick out BNP elements. He is clearly an objective onlooker, not an EDL supporter as you would have people believe. He confirms this view when he says: "does that mean that they aren't racist or they are...? I'm not making a definitive point, I'm just saying these things are extremely complex and we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people." He's not overtly supporting the EDL, nor is he attacking them.
@DancinJim The irony is that EDL are as much racist or more than the BNP. Full of drunk skinheaded football hooligans who think Pakistanis have "Muslamic ray guns" and want to bring "Iraqi law."
The elephant in the room is that the EDL are devoid of opinion because they are quite honestly ignorant and thick.
@Eamon No. He's a a spokesman and director of the EDL. The EDL also has a Jewish division with regular Jewish speakers. So how can you call it a racist organization when it 1) has non-white, Sikh and Jewish members 2) has made great efforts to kick out people who spout overtly racist rhetoric and 3) as far as I know, a condition to join a rally includes a form which promises to no racist chanting. The left's only way of debating is to cry 'racist', because they have no argument.
@CMTours732 You purposely ignored the video I linked lol. Regardless of what divisions there are, the united purpose is racism against a specific group and in this case it's the Muslim community. You can keep dismissing debates as "the left just crying racist" but the facts are pretty clear.
Racism isn't just discriminating against everyone. It's also discriminating against a single community too.
@Eamon The 'Muslim community' is not a race. It's a religious group. If the EDL were racist then they'd be racist against all Asians, including Sikhs and Hindus. This however, is not the case, considering one of the leading members is Guramit Singh. No, the facts aren't 'pretty clear', you're trying to pass off assertion as fact rather than engaging with the argument. I won't deny that there are some racists in the EDL, but clearly this doesn't make it a racist organization.
@Eamon There is no irony at all, seeing as he is not supporting the EDL. I don't care what you think about the EDL, nor does Murray. He is simply stating that nobody should be dismissed in the way the the Left does to fringe groups. Anyone who disagrees with them is automatically labeled a 'racist'.
Murray is excellent.. the left is irrational thats why they are pro islam and pro islamisation of our societies and country.. they rather sell our free nations on a silver plate to islamists than criticize islam
Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his sentiment, it must be conceded that whilst Douglas Murray is attacking "the left" for generalising whole groups of people and saying that "they" believe certain things or behave in a certain way, that Murray himself is committing the same crime when he refers to 'the left' as a singular entity, going on to make such statements as "such a bloody left wing thing to do" and "the left loves doing this". The hypocrisy is unbelievable.
@K411UM I don't believe there is any hypocrisy. As a rule, the majority of Leftists do tend to attack anyone who speaks out on radical Islam, whereas it's only the minority of far right supporters who harbour racist views. In terms of generalisations, he's correct, whereas in those same terms the Left are incorrect to dismiss the majority of those who speak out as being racist. If neither side used generalisations, he'd simply change his wording to "many in the Left". His point would still stand
Well done ol-boy! Good for you ol-chap! The only portion I question points out the sole problem with "democracy" and of course when "political correctness", coined in 1929 by Joseph Stalin, is that all Communists and Islamists should be kicked out due to the fact their entire ideologies are predicated on expansionism, submission and murder. I'm sure these bloody communists would quickly give it up should they be in contra-opinion to their dictator. Ask Solzhenitsyn, Pasternak or Trotsky!
@BNPification Communism and like pseudo-intellectual philosophies had been around long before the 18th century however in 1929 Joseph Stalin coined the term for control and guidance over the Communist International's propaganda efforts within the various foreign non-Socialist countries of operation. Regards, SRA.
@DrAvrington "Communism and like pseudo-intellectual philosophies had been around long before the 18th century"
Irrelevant garbage, the term PC was originally used in text as literally termed, to be politically correct in your thinking rather than any left rhetoric.
@DrAvrington "Joseph Stalin coined the term for control and guidance over the Communist"
Stop backtracking, you're now debating Stalin origins of PC, rather than the origins of political correctness itself as previously stated. PC under Stalin had a different meaning to what you are pertaining to discuss anyway as it concerned political, social & ideological totalitarian consistency of the population i.e. control of the masses, not being PC would mean dissent of the state.
@BNPification Stalin's PC over the control of the International and the ideology of self-censorship of the masses is exactly the same ideology with only differences being those having their free speech suppressed - for purely politically corrupt socialist schema. Please library cards are free.... PC is a socialist schema, Stalin was a Socialist....Logically a Socialist would follow and "improve" on Socialist doctrine.
@DrAvrington "Stalin's PC over the control of the International and the ideology of self-censorship of the masses is exactly the same ideology"
Stating Stalin was corrupt doesn’t qualify as erudite. You claimed Stalin coined political correctness to debase the term PC, you were wrong and have posted irrelevant nonsense since.
@BNPification Although, although in my politically in-correct opinion your attacks indicate a supine mind. You should not attack my position however, refer to historian Arthur Herman's work "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator" although M. Stanton Evans' "Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies" is much more worthy in my opinion. Happy reading....SRA
Murray is part of the British marxist and increasingly islamist regime and runs a government funded think tank on 'social cohesion' Here is trying to co-opt the EDL for the one party self-declared 'communitarian' and 'progressive' state which is deligitimising Israel. It's foreign secretary William Hague called for "Peaceful resistance to Israel.". He is attempting to side-line the nationalists who support Israel but who are currently poorly led. The EDL will not fall into this trap.
douglas said something brilliant on one show - i think it was question time - or maybe not he said that people should not be scared to speak out and to do it cos it emboldens others to speak out against the overbreeding parasitical type of islam
@diamondgeezeredl The trouble is, it's that "rough around the edges" look that will forever stop the EDL from achieving national credibility, as there are too many people who dislike that image. Bizarrely, although the BNP are awful, their leader Nick Griffin was actually smart enough to realise that the party needed a smartly-dressed, more well-spoken leader. Their problem was that their racism was obvious. The EDL aren't racist, but do need to change their appearance to appeal more.
Stop taking the contraceptives your gov gives you.......they just seem to want to get rid of you! Look to the Pope rather that your gov.....who are trying to get rid of you. CATHOLIC STATE for the future please!!
Oh.....so you want people to continue behaving in a depraved but sterile fashion. Why?! Do you want to get rid of them like the gov does?! All the more reason to reject the contraceptive sweeties that the powers that be hand out like smarties folks. There is an evil agenda at work here. CATHOLIC STATE please!!
They need to stop blowing hot air here and start tackling the problem...then there WONT be a need for the EDL who want our country and its children safe and free from the dangers radical islam.....but me thinks fat chance of that.
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murray is so terrified of islam / muslims that he spends his life publically criticising them!
just another gentile zionist useful idiot, by their friends ye shall judge them
GriefTourist 4 days ago
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GriefTourist 4 days ago
Wow, the fans of this Youtube video are the typical right-wing conspiracy nut cases.
junaidnoorim 6 days ago
Smart man.
TheFlyingScotsman01 1 week ago
fucking legend
bm2g 2 weeks ago
I find it hugey ironic that in this video Douglas Murray is explaining the need to be rational in one's assesment of any group in society, he says "we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people". In the comments many of his fanboys are dismissing whole swathes of people by saying things like "I came to see what a bunch of self-serving ignorant humourless bigots the Left Wing really are." People are so moronic sometimes it is comedic.
nathfrancis01 2 weeks ago
EDL aren't far right, the media are far left!
2912770 3 weeks ago
Oh no. The dreaded "racist" death touch label. As a former militant hardcore leftist activist involved in "racial justice", you're all being duped and exploited by Marxists. But there's nothing you can really do about it because the Left controls our societies with an iron fist. The long term goal must be to overthrow the Left in the West. Only then can we save our civilization from the slow motion suicide orchestrated by the Left.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 3 weeks ago
Well said. As an accident of birth I happen to be white, male & hetrosexual. All my life I had been a leftie: anti-racist, anti-sexist, gay lib, anti-capitalist etc. - Then, when I turned visibly middle-aged I was shocked & horrified to find other lefties automatically assuming that I was "the enemy": attacking me before they even knew what I was about; trying to prevent me from speaking etc.
I came to see what a bunch of self-serving ignorant humourless bigots the Left Wing really are.
freeman8128 1 month ago 4
Secularists have no chance of stopping Islamisation. Muslims will outbreed you in your own nation. CATHOLIC STATE for the future.....this alone will stop your secular government's secret plans for Islamisation.
amaqula 1 month ago
@amaqula starting to think you're right, dude
JyeDante777 1 month ago
This guy is exceptionally clever. I feel like a fuck*** in comparison.
BarriosGroupie 1 month ago
I dont want to agree with him but i cant stop myself lol
spookycheeseballs 1 month ago
Douglas Murray is brilliant. I havn't been this impressed with someone since I discovered Christopher Hitchens....
Stevo6452 1 month ago
I wish that Douglas Murray will be president of UK.
monsey3262 3 months ago
Brillant!
bnbalenda 5 months ago
Douglas Murray is without a doubt the most important political thinker of our time and is therefore far too over qualified to be prime minister.
Aireysghost1 5 months ago
Douglas Murray for Prime Minister!
hurro67 6 months ago 2
Why Isn't This Man Prime Minister Already? ... I Know, Too Many Bloody Lefties!!!!!!!!!!!
PedroGooner 6 months ago 2
Excellent!
Octavius0 6 months ago
Douglas Murray has the ability to be obscenely posh but still connect with the working man. That's an achievement in itself; it's like he perfectly articulates what ordinary people are thinking.
Riiye 7 months ago 21
@Riiye Precisely
JZZ31 7 months ago
@Riiye That's because he is sincere - Rene
mammyoriordan 1 month ago
Douglas does not support the EDL !!! And never has, yes he is against shariah law, like most normal people are, but that doesn't mean he supports the EDL !!!!
theworldvideos1 7 months ago
Halo polishing indeed. It's only ever the Left that take the stance of supporting the oppression of freedom of thought and speech of anyone it considers 'right-wing', yet the right-wing never does this to the left. There is a real streak of fascist intolerance about the leftist mindset that seeks to close down opposition. As Noam Chomsky said: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
CrankCase08 7 months ago
Having just looked at the comments on this video , i've come to a full conclusion that murray is right about the left in the way they ect , many times down me local I've had debates with them , its too much for me they froth and shout and wont listen to what you have to say , I hate them stuck up middle class bastards
cambershots 8 months ago 14
@cambershots Perfectly put Comrade ! LOL Sham pain socialists are the most vile hypocrites. TV arts entertainment , are riddled with them (Disproportionate a mis representation of Society)Fat cat luvvies with their cloned patronising puke ( they haven't the balls / or brains to dissent from the Establishment= neo McCarthyism). The educated working class stand on our own 2 feet,are scum sucking pigs to them. Well I'd rather be scum,sucking pig, than pig sucking scum..
wasabimanic 8 months ago
@cambershots i say here! here! from the States :P love how you guys speak :)) lol great video by the way he is speaking what is right not what is popular
MrJoshya3 2 months ago
@cambershots Tell me about it, im not pro right wing, but these stupid tree hugging lefties are the most brainwashed of them all.
They will start an argument just to win, and shout things like racist and nazi along the way, there is just no reason or compromise with them at all, and the sooner they wake up and smell the coffee the sooner we can sort our differences out without fear of being labelled.
Until then i'm gonna go right ahead and call them fucking idiots.
yesweknowthedrill 2 days ago
I like this chap
MrCrusader363 8 months ago 3
The false prophet Muhamad was a deranged warlord who united the tribes using the delusionary power of religion behind him so he could continue to rape, loot, thieve, and murder his way around with 'god given' impunity. A mass murdering sadistic and perverted psychopath, nothing else.
And this is the role model and perfect human according to Muslims. European politicians abuse our democracy to protect the teachings of a Bedouin Hitler
/watch?v=JYpl122kay8
TheRockZH 8 months ago 2
douglas u muppet
hydromalik 8 months ago
douglas murray bends over for the zionists! ZIONISM IS A DIRTY EVIL RELIGION! READ the HATE in the ZIONIST TALMUD against (Mary & Jesus) THEN read how the Koran DEFENDS the Virgin Mary & Christ!
whitechristian1066 8 months ago
@whitechristian1066 Isn't it great to have the right to insult the belief of others without fear of violence? No one is going to threaten your life or call you name like racist or phobic. Doens't that feel great? Well, when Islam stops threatening others with violence for insulting and disagreeing with it, and insisting on silencing freedom of speech, then maybe people will not be so against it.
sonia0865 7 months ago
@sonia0865 What are you talking about? All you are is a Zionist Anti-Christ! Why don't you & your Zionist Immigrants fuck off back to the eastern european ghettos you came from! CHRIST ARYAN WARRIOR!
whitechristian1066 7 months ago
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@whitechristian1066 Isn't it great to have the right to insult the belief of others without fear of violence? No one is going to threaten your life or call you name like racist or phobic. Doens't that feel great? Well, when Islam stops threatening others with violence for insulting and disagreeing with it, and insisting on silencing freedom of speech, then maybe people will not be so against it.
sonia0865 7 months ago
Douglas has clearly stated that he is not a supporter of the EDL multiple times. In this video he is merely giving an example of the psyche behind individuals on the left who may judge the EDL who he merely uses as an example. He specifically says that he is not making a judgement on the EDL in the actual video. Misleading and idiotic title that will only damage Douglas' representation unfairly.
BritishNeoCon 8 months ago 4
I think DancinJim said everything that needs to be said. If you have an agenda, keep it to yourself, thanks.
shrapn0 8 months ago
"we should be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people."
Oh the irony
callmeal84 9 months ago
He's not racist, he has never commented about someone's race. He has commented a lot about religion. Religion and race are two completely separate issues.
markod2002 9 months ago
Douglas Murray is quite simply a racist idiot, who cares what he has to say.
Georgebushbent 9 months ago
I'm clever enough and have read enough of his material to know that he lives in a naiive, carefully constructed bubble, a bubble mastered over centuries of elitist British education. Neo-conservative... If the Axis powers won WW2 he'd be a neo-socialist, if communism globalised instead of capitalism he'd be a neo-communist. If he went to a state school he'd probably be a rent boy. He's a bandwagon jumper, clueless about the reality of how his fellow Britons live and the impact his ideology has.
urdeadalready2150 9 months ago
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@urdeadalready2150 what on earth are you rambling about?
CMTours732 9 months ago
What a pompous little ass
callmeal84 9 months ago
Murray makes my blood boil. Spoilt etonian who sucks cock, living in his own bubble. A man who has no idea about real human life, love to see where he'd be without rich parents and brainwashing elitist education. Growing up in a 2 room council flat in fanily of 5, growing up surrounded by inner-city smackheads, prostitues, peados, poverty, muggings, drug abuse etc. He'd get the shit kicked out of him, little faggot. I hope he dies.
urdeadalready2150 9 months ago
@urdeadalready2150 Aren't you clever? Silly little fuck.
CMTours732 9 months ago
what...?
MrJayman91 9 months ago
Murray is a little boy jumped up by the zionists, the zionists dont realise that they are so clearly exposed by using this little boy with a brain of an ant, simply getting him to repeat their zionist mantra won't make him any more credible
d4vstone 10 months ago
The title of this video is completely misleading. Change it. Do not hijack the words of a good man.
tallulahdandy 10 months ago
@DancinJim "The left ALWAYS..." – what more can I say? You really don't get it.
How you fail to see the irony in accusing me of biased against Murray whilst at the same time spouting bias subjective opinions about "the left" is beyond me.
Whilst I've found the ever shrinking circles your argument has been spinning in rather amusing, the amusement has faded into boredom.
Finally - Murray is to Hitchens as a Rover is to a Ferrari - Similarities yes, the same thing? I'm afraid not.
Later Jimbo
K411UM 10 months ago
@K411UM You still can't see it, bless you. It's ok to make generalisations...when they are correct. Murray is correct, however those who claim that all who want a debate over immigration, etc. are racist, are not. Murray can generalise, because his generalisations have a truth to them. The generalisations of the reverse, are entirely false. You fail to see the shift. Also, the Ferrari comment was silly, and gives me an opportunity, which I will hold back from. Murray is the heir to Hitchens.
DancinJim 10 months ago
@DancinJim - Yes the left speak out in favour of minorities, as a large concern for maintaining equality and human rights is inherently leftist – they do NOT always GENERALISE (which, if you listen, is what Murray said) – a tendency to generalise is not implied by anything within leftist ideology and so any claim that the left does generalise more than any other group would require empirical research and actual statistics to back it up.
As for Murray/Hitchens... hahaha
K411UM 10 months ago
@K411UM Once again, Murray is making a CORRECT generalisation about a majority, whereas the Left always make an incorrect generalisation about a minority. As for Murray/Hitchens. It's as clear as day. You can't see it because you don't like Murray. It's your vision at fault. The fact I love Hitchens and think he is an amazing speaker and writer, and I also can see how Murray is following in his footsteps, plus all the others who have said this, is al the proof needed.
DancinJim 10 months ago
islam is a lie
exmuslimNfree
exmuslimNfree 10 months ago
Hear!Hear!
MrTomahawg 10 months ago
I strongly detest the left wing.
HULLOHULLO15 10 months ago 20
@HULLOHULLO15 Who doesn't? All they do is detest others. They adhere to their marxist dogma, they divide people into categories, and then they decide whom they love and whom they hate, who is to blame, who is to be punished, and so on. I hate all authoritarians and leftists are probably the worst, because they don't even have the guts to admit it. They prefer to hide behind the 'will of the people' and the 'good of the people', by 'people' meaning 'marxist commitee'... It's a mental disorder.
topperheartramada 5 months ago
@HULLOHULLO15 I am neo-communist far left winger that hates political correctedness, liberal pandering to muslims, and liberal self-hatred and the former soviet stalinist regime... I think you missed Douglas Murray's point about making sweeping assumptions...
vkvladman 5 months ago
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@vkvladman i'm a neo-communist fat left winger who hates everything ever written by karl marx, believes in private enterprize, and supports sara palin.
topperheartramada 4 months ago
@vkvladman well said
fringeailments 4 months ago
Destruction of Universities of Ancient India by Muslims-
Nalanda University - Gr8est University in World (4th AD to 12th AD)
Vickramasila 800 A.C
Odantapuri- Second oldest of India's universities after Taxila
Somapura University
Jagaddala University
Vallabhi University
Sanskrit College of Visaladeva
In return, Madarsaas to generate more terrorists
anu123km 10 months ago
what a good speaker tip my cap to him
sorted65 10 months ago 26
Douglas Murray for PM. He's my hero.
gunner23 10 months ago
with all due respect, yes we english need some kind of heritage to keep hold of and the large growth of different ethnic groups has affected this yet many edl memebers use violence as a way of protesting. it seems most members use this violence and attention seeking as a way of ridding their own guilt of not trying hard enough to get a well paid job which they claim is been given to foreigners.
prisspross32 1 year ago
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Check out my Islamophobia Video please! Thanks!
teroristpro 1 year ago
does ayaan hirsi ali agree with the EDL?
volound 1 year ago
@DancinJim - Hitchens has his moments, I disagree with him on many issues but on others, water-boarding for example, I agree with him (Murray I think you'll find, disagrees with Hitchens on this).
Also, as many problems as I have with Hitchens, he is incomparably better than Murray. I have some respect for Hitchens even when I disagree with him. The same is not true for Murray.
K411UM 1 year ago
@K411UM Murray is younger and has 40 or so years to mature until he is Hitchens' age. It is bizarre and illogical that you respect the Hitch and not Murray, as it is recognised that Murray is the 'heir to Hitchens', in terms of speaking style, opinions, etc.
DancinJim 10 months ago
@DancinJim - I disagree with what you believe the 'majority of the left' say as without evidence it is merely an opinion, just as is my viewpoint. Calling either anything more is wrong without providing evidence.
As for it "not being a big deal", whilst in another discussion I might (possibly) agree with you, in this particular argument Murray is making a critique of generalisation. In such a context, generalising anyone in any way IS a big deal as it serves to contradict his entire argument.
K411UM 1 year ago
@K411UM I said it could be reworded that "many on the left feel this way". This is because it is true. No statistics are needed to prove it - it's an obvious trend in the Left in Britain. Anytime you speak out on anything regarding a minority, it is always an organisation from the Left who tries to counter you. It's obvious.
DancinJim 10 months ago
@K411UM
Hi.
I think basic common sense and an understanding of the current leftist mindset (and a daily leafing through The Guardian) should make it clear that the majority of the left view any criticism of Islamism to be a needless distraction from more pressing issues, and view most criticisms of Islam to be racist.
If I was to tell you that I believe crowds of anti-fascist protesters should set their sights on al-Muhajiroun rather than the EDL, you'd probably think "This guy hates Asians!"
terratrema 10 months ago
@DancinJim
On a personal note I do not find Murray impressive in the slightest; there are far more intelligent and eloquent public figures who share his opinions & who do not make such basic mistakes - even in mainstream British politics. And frankly, being less impressive than British politicians is no mean feat.
I know I banged on, but you provided me with a lot to go on haha!
K411UM 1 year ago
@K411UM While you are entitled to view Murray however you want to, I vehemently disagree. I've watched Murray many times since he made a great account of himself on Question Time a few years ago. I've seen him win countless debates (both in terms of points made and audience votes) and speak in a very concise, thoughtful, confident and convincing manner. The moment I saw him I considered him the heir to Hitchens. Now you will tell me you don't like Hitchens either. That will explain a lot... lol.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim Without Murray citing any empirical evidence to suggest that “the left ALWAYS do this” his point does not stand - it is merely an opinion. Whilst not to necessarily dismiss his point, his way of presenting it was poor.
K411UM 1 year ago
@DancinJim
It WOULD be a generalisation to say all those in the “far right” are prone to violence just as it is a generalisation for you to say “as a rule the majority of leftists tending to attack anyone who speaks out against radical Islam” as these are not traits inherent to either political opinion. Short of your being able to cite any empirical evidence to support such a claim, I would be extremely reluctant if I were you to make such statements.
K411UM 1 year ago
@K411UM I would say that it is not a rash generalisation to say that the Far Right does tend to be racist. Just as like Murray said, the Left tends to be condemning of anyone who speaks out with their concerns over Islamism. The worst you can really accuse him of is not being more specific and stating that "many on the Left" have this tendency, instead of wording it to sound like they all do. Doesn't seem a big deal to me, compared to what he was complaining about.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@Dancinjim The “far right” is, by definition, separatist & prone to espousing racism. It is no more a generalisation to say that the majority the “far right” are in favour of racial/religious segregation, than to say the majority of the “far left” favour complete equality. These concepts are implied by these terms. Right wing politics in general on the other hand, which is what I believe what you were referring to, do NOT necessarily imply segregation or readily espouse racism.
K411UM 1 year ago
@K411UM I should clarify my last post... When I said far right I was actually tired and not concentrating. I was not referring to the far right at all. I was thinking about the general everyday groups, not necessarily even in the right, that feel concern about Islamism. I feel the point I made stands up perfectly with this correction made.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
Hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behaviour does not conform.
Murray: “we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people”
Murray: “the left ALWAYS do this”
Regardless of what he may have intended to say, these statements are absolutely, unequivocally hypocritical.
K411UM 1 year ago
@K411UM Maybe I should have been clearer as you seem to have missed the point entirely. Forget empirical evidence - we all know that you can find a rule that summarises a majority, even if it's not 100% accurate. His generalisation is largely correct, whereas the Left's generalisations are flawed and incorrect. That's the point. You can say you hate generalisations altogether, but I actually think when they are largely accurate as Murray's is, they are useful. When they are flawed they are not.
DancinJim 1 year ago
Quite right, he is not "in" support of the EDL but he is "in" support of an all inclusive debate or political arena, that will never be solved if a section of it is not given a voice. The EDL are a reactionary group, they were directly caused by Muslims in Luton chanting at the funeral parades of British soldiers, screaming
"your troops are in hell" amongst battle cries of allahu ackbar. Whilst surrounded by British police protecting "their" freedom of speech and right to assemble.
WTF?
123backinyerface 1 year ago
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Folderol1992 1 year ago
@Folderol1992
The full clip has been uploaded elsewhere, it exposes your claims of editing as a lie.
Sorry to disappoint you.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
Douglas isn't actually in support of the EDL as the title of this video suggests... He is actually in support of freedom of expression and does not begrudge any group their opinion (including the EDL) unless they are overtly racist like the BNP. Very misleading title.
DancinJim 1 year ago 39
@DancinJim
He says he supports what the EDL stands fo, therefore he supports the EDL. Attempting to disagree with this obvious fact makes you look stupid.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 Nope. He doesn't say "I support what the EDL stands for" at any point in this video (or the full, unedited video, which I have also seen). He is making a broader point regarding not dismissing whole groups of people as racists or harbouring dangerous views, using the EDL as an example. I agree with him in what he is saying, but it clearly is not at any point a glowing endorsement of the EDL - he even states that there have been BNP-elements exposed within the EDL...
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
No he doesnt say that but I can of made the assumption based on what he said. He supports the EDL's message, he supports kicking out the racist elements... what do you think he disagrees with?
You're puzzling me.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 That's the trouble - you are making an assumption based on no facts. Also, your original statement was that :"He says he supports what the EDL stands for, therefore he supports the EDL." You are now admitting that you made the assumption and he did not directly say that. With all due respect, as much as you are entitled to your opinion, it is an ill-measured response based on nothing but your own guesses, with no evidence to back it up.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
No, i'm basing the assumption on the fact that he's on record in this very video as saying he supports the EDL.
You continue to puzzle me.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 You said: "He says he supports what the EDL stands fo, therefore he supports the EDL." You then admitted: "he doesnt say that but I can of made the assumption based on what he said". Now you have backtracked again and said: "i'm basing the assumption on the fact that he's on record in this very video as saying he supports the EDL". The reason you are puzzled, is because you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You have contradicted yourself twice and must be confused.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
No, no, no, you're getting all confused. He does say he supports what the EDL stand for; what i said he didn't say was " I love dem EDL guys!" The 2 things do not contradict each other in the slightest.
This isn't rocket science so I don't know why you're all confused.com.
He says he supports what the EDL stand for, no sharia law, end of islamofascism (abusing gays, women, other religions etc). not just in this video but in many others.
Like I say.. it's not rocket science!
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
And let me just remind you, you have now twice said that you have ASSUMED this about him. Anyone of any intelligence knows that an assumption will never stand up in a debate and furthermore would seen with no credibility, as it is backed up by no evidence whatsoever, other than the biased hunch of the person who assumes it.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
Assumption stand up in debates all the time. You, for example, have ASSUMED he doesn't support the EDL, when there is clear evidence to the contrary.
You see?
You really aren't sharpest tool in the shed.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 is there a problem with Murray supporting the EDL?
CMTours732 9 months ago
@CMTours732
Not as far as i'm concerned.
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@1878EFC2008 You need to look up the definition of what a 'supporter' is. Think about supporters of individual people, e.g. supporters of other political parties. Think how they behave and act - endorsing and promoting. Murray has not done any of these things with the EDL. Had you said he was in support of every person having the right to express genuine concerns freely, without being labeled a racist, I'd have agreed with you. But that wouldn't specifically be the EDL, it would be ANYONE.
DancinJim 1 year ago
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@1878EFC2008 ...which brings us back full-circle to my original post, where I said: "He is actually in support of freedom of expression and does not begrudge any group their opinion (including the EDL) unless they are overtly racist like the BNP." So there we have it, nice and tidy ending. Job done.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 Here's the final chance for you: Give me the time reference in this video, where he explicitly states, in those very terms, that he supports the EDL. It's impossible, because he doesn't say that. The reason? Because he doesn't support them. I've already proven that previously, but this should be the only way of making it clear to you - if you have no proof and you are merely assuming (which means "to take for granted or without proof"), then your claims have no credibility.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
Thanks for offering me one last chance! Your kindness will be rewarded with the service of 16 virgins in the afterlife!
0.50 - 0.57
He doesn't get up and scream "E-E-EDL", however, only someone with a limited IQ can not see this as support for the EDL.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 I asked for you to provide me with a clear and overt verbal expression of support for the EDL. You can't, because he has never and will never say that he supports the EDL. Once again, you fail to see this in the context of his entire speech, because you're obsessed with the idea that this is some great endorsement of the EDL. He's using them as an example. He does not support them. I quote: "Let me give you an example - the English Defence League". They are just an example for him.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
I probably couldn't provide you with a 'clear and verbal expression' (!) of Goebbel's support for Hitler. I just, you know...kind of make that assumption... don't you?
They aren't just an example... he goes on to say in that very sentence that he agrees with their stance against the burka, their opposition to islam's persecution of gays, women and jews and their olicy of hrowing out racists.
Still 'just an example'?
REally?
Are you an idiot?
Oh yeah, I forgot.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 That's it... Keep clutching at straws. You lost this a long time ago, the moment you realised you couldn't prove me wrong so resorted to name-calling. I love the way you try to form a strange analogy with the idea that you "probably couldn't form a 'clear and verbal expression' of Goebbel's support for Hitler". Yes, actually, you quite clearly could - seeing as there is a wealth of historical documents to use as evidence. You have no evidence, as all you have is your assumptions.
DancinJim 10 months ago
@DancinJim
It took you a month to come up with that?
Fucking hell, can't wait for the school holidays to end.
1878EFC2008 10 months ago
@1878EFC2008 If you need to tell yourself that, go ahead little one. I already one when it went full-circle. Just stumbled back across the same video whilst enjoy various Douglas Murray videos. Notice you didn't come up with a rebuttal. Same old, same old then... lol
DancinJim 10 months ago
@DancinJim
I came up with are rebuttal several weeks ago. Do try to keep up.
1878EFC2008 10 months ago
@1878EFC2008 Simply put - no, you didn't. You lost miserably, the moment you allowed the debate to go full-circle back to my original point. You started poorly, attempted a revival mid-way by trying to muddy the waters, then lost again miserably. Fortunately, the entire string is here for everyone to see how wrong you are. I simply wanted to add insult to injury by pointing out the case study example of how two people who are entirely unsupportive of each other can still agree on something :)
DancinJim 10 months ago
@DancinJim
I didn't allow the debate to go anywhere. You lacked the mental equipment to see my point so just reiterated your original point.
You aren't terribly bright and the fact you think the 'string' will show you in a good light confirms this.
1878EFC2008 10 months ago
@1878EFC2008 HAHA! You fell into the trap! You're quite right - you didn't allow the debate to go anywhere - which is precisely why we ended up right where we started, despite all your stalling techniques, attempts to muddy the waters, change tact... etc! I have dominated you beyond all expectations. This is perfect. Utterly, utterly, perfect. I am going to print this thread to PDF so I can keep it forever- what a beautiful victory for me! Thanks for being so braindead. Easy victory for me :) x
DancinJim 10 months ago
@DancinJim
You're conceding that the debate's direction is down entirely to me. Whilst i have a vastly superior intellect to you and the argument's progress , therefore, is mainly due to my whims and demands, i cannot control what you say.
Ergo, this debate's impasse was brought about by you and your inability to deal with the points i presented with great clarity and intellect.
It's change *tack'* by the way.
"Change tack" lol. You are really stupid.
1878EFC2008 10 months ago
@1878EFC2008 You miss the entire point once again. No surprise, but amusing, as you pretend you know what's going on. There has been no conceding - yet you walked right into my trap, which was rather handy to say the least! Your come-back? The usual grasping at straws that we have become so accustomed to! What a laughable individual you are. Well, I say individual, but everything you say is manufactured and run-of-the-mill. Not original. So really, you're just another loser who can't keep up...
DancinJim 9 months ago
@DancinJim
You print internet conversations.
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@1878EFC2008 Yes. To PDF. But you reply within hours... that's something I can't hope to do, due to having a life...
DancinJim 9 months ago
@DancinJim
When you can afford an iphone then you'll be able to . Keep reaching for the stars.
ps you print internet conversations
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@1878EFC2008 I own an iPhone. Yet bizarrely your arguement contradicts itself, as it's far quicker to type on a keyboard than it would be on an iPhone, and it would also mean you would have to be obsessed with YouTube conversations and check them constantly in order to use the iPhone to reply. You lose again. Twice. Ouch!!!!!
P.s. You can't print internet conversations, because: A) You probably don't have print to PDF function, and B) You have never won an arguement. LOLOLOLOLOLOL! :) XXX
DancinJim 9 months ago
@DancinJim
Argument*
You don't have an iphone, please don't lie. Tbh, you're an intellectual midget and i won't be wasting anymore of my valuable time on your 6th form rhetoric.
Come back if you ever graduate from uni and maybe we can have a more grown up and intelligent discussion.
ps you print internet conversations
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@1878EFC2008 With a view to your ineptitude, the topic can be brought to a close with the conclusion that you have made no points whatsoever, I've embarrassed you throughout, printed the entire conversation to PDF to show others, and can come away comfortably knowing how superior I am to you. Not that I needed reinforcement, as let's face it, you're about as intellectually-threatening as a pre-pubescent smurf who is learning to cut his toenails. Ok, I'll be honest, I'm jealous you're blue :) xxx
DancinJim 9 months ago
@DancinJim
You print internet conversations.
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@1878EFC2008 You can't print internet conversations, because: A) You probably don't have print to PDF function, and B) You have never won an arguement.
DancinJim 9 months ago
@DancinJim
Why would losing an argument (please note the spelling) prevent me from printing it? Nothing you say makes any sense.
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@1878EFC2008 Just to answer your question: "what do you think he disagrees with?" You once again make the mistake of assuming that he either agrees or disagrees with their organisation. He shows he is impartial in the quote I already gave you: "does that mean that they aren't racist or they are...? I'm not making a definitive point, I'm just saying these things are extremely complex and we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people." Being impartial is not the same as support.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
That question is clearly a rhetorical one you utter, utter idiot!
JEsus Christ, that was possibly your silliest post yet, please think before you respond again as you clearly aren't very bright, so consequently your replies need a lot of work before they give me enough intellectual fat to chew on.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 It is absolutely absurd, in the most ironic of senses, that someone like you, who cannot muster the intelligence to understand such a basic point as this, is calling me an idiot. You're one of these people who bite off more than they can chew, then simply keep shouting idiot when the other person proves them wrong, as I have done. The fact you've got so angry also shows how you're annoyed that you've been proven wrong. That's probably the fifth time you've shown that weakness.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
It is most definitely ironic that you are calling me absurd. Thanks for admitting it. ;)
Stupidity always irritates intelligent people, it isn't the first time it's happened and it won't the last.
the stupid person's ability to be impervious to facts logic and reason is a source of mystifying anger to the intelligent people.
Sadly you'll never know.
You're an idiot.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 Re: the rhetorical Q: It is, but not in the sense you want it to be. He answers with an impartial view, far from endorsing them: "I'm not making a definitive point, I'm just saying these things are extremely complex and we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people". Saying we must not dismiss swathes of people is true, but it isn't related solely to the EDL, nor is he saying that he is making a definitive point as to whether or not they are a racist organisation.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
It's not related solely to the EDL. Of course it isn't. It DOES relate to them. Thank you for admitting this as well.
Progress is being made and i'm proud of you.
Still some way to go though, a man who points out he supports the EDL's objectives, commends their policy of throwing out racists and refutes the lazy MSM agenda of porttraying them as racist yobs = Support.
It's really quite clear.
Unless you're an idiot?
Oh right.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 Also, if you were referring to your question being rhetorical, let me say this: It is not the rhetoric that's the issue. You make the mistake of once again assuming that he has to agree or disagree with them. You should take care to remember that he is an impartial observer making a point about the Left labelling people unfairly as racist, and happens to be using the EDL as an example where they did this. He's not making a political endorsement of any party or organisation.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim
Of course he has to agree or disagree with the core objectives of the EDL.
He agrees.
It's really rather obvious.
1878EFC2008 1 year ago
@1878EFC2008 cont... He also points out they have tried to kick out BNP elements. He is clearly an objective onlooker, not an EDL supporter as you would have people believe. He confirms this view when he says: "does that mean that they aren't racist or they are...? I'm not making a definitive point, I'm just saying these things are extremely complex and we ought to be careful before dismissing whole swathes of people." He's not overtly supporting the EDL, nor is he attacking them.
DancinJim 1 year ago
@DancinJim The irony is that EDL are as much racist or more than the BNP. Full of drunk skinheaded football hooligans who think Pakistanis have "Muslamic ray guns" and want to bring "Iraqi law."
The elephant in the room is that the EDL are devoid of opinion because they are quite honestly ignorant and thick.
Eamon 9 months ago
@Eamon despite the fact that one of their principal spokesmen is Guramit Singh, an Asian Sikh?
CMTours732 9 months ago
@CMTours732 That's the comedy. He's basically their mascot like this confused dude:
/watch?v=sBT9aoeXdWM
Eamon 9 months ago
@Eamon No. He's a a spokesman and director of the EDL. The EDL also has a Jewish division with regular Jewish speakers. So how can you call it a racist organization when it 1) has non-white, Sikh and Jewish members 2) has made great efforts to kick out people who spout overtly racist rhetoric and 3) as far as I know, a condition to join a rally includes a form which promises to no racist chanting. The left's only way of debating is to cry 'racist', because they have no argument.
CMTours732 9 months ago
@CMTours732 You purposely ignored the video I linked lol. Regardless of what divisions there are, the united purpose is racism against a specific group and in this case it's the Muslim community. You can keep dismissing debates as "the left just crying racist" but the facts are pretty clear.
Racism isn't just discriminating against everyone. It's also discriminating against a single community too.
Eamon 9 months ago
@Eamon The 'Muslim community' is not a race. It's a religious group. If the EDL were racist then they'd be racist against all Asians, including Sikhs and Hindus. This however, is not the case, considering one of the leading members is Guramit Singh. No, the facts aren't 'pretty clear', you're trying to pass off assertion as fact rather than engaging with the argument. I won't deny that there are some racists in the EDL, but clearly this doesn't make it a racist organization.
CMTours732 9 months ago
@Eamon There is no irony at all, seeing as he is not supporting the EDL. I don't care what you think about the EDL, nor does Murray. He is simply stating that nobody should be dismissed in the way the the Left does to fringe groups. Anyone who disagrees with them is automatically labeled a 'racist'.
DancinJim 9 months ago
Murray is excellent.. the left is irrational thats why they are pro islam and pro islamisation of our societies and country.. they rather sell our free nations on a silver plate to islamists than criticize islam
Islam666AntiChrist 1 year ago
Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his sentiment, it must be conceded that whilst Douglas Murray is attacking "the left" for generalising whole groups of people and saying that "they" believe certain things or behave in a certain way, that Murray himself is committing the same crime when he refers to 'the left' as a singular entity, going on to make such statements as "such a bloody left wing thing to do" and "the left loves doing this". The hypocrisy is unbelievable.
K411UM 1 year ago
@K411UM I don't believe there is any hypocrisy. As a rule, the majority of Leftists do tend to attack anyone who speaks out on radical Islam, whereas it's only the minority of far right supporters who harbour racist views. In terms of generalisations, he's correct, whereas in those same terms the Left are incorrect to dismiss the majority of those who speak out as being racist. If neither side used generalisations, he'd simply change his wording to "many in the Left". His point would still stand
DancinJim 1 year ago
Good, measured, intelligent response to the EDL. Not some hysterical lefty response.
EnglishG3nt 1 year ago
The liberals fascists hate those who defend England instead of Islamofascists.
StoogeWatcher 1 year ago
I thought he put it very well. Good to hear people sticking up for the E.D.L
rw9259 1 year ago
Well thanks to this video and it's title this man will never be taken seriously again
nbarrett100 1 year ago
Well done ol-boy! Good for you ol-chap! The only portion I question points out the sole problem with "democracy" and of course when "political correctness", coined in 1929 by Joseph Stalin, is that all Communists and Islamists should be kicked out due to the fact their entire ideologies are predicated on expansionism, submission and murder. I'm sure these bloody communists would quickly give it up should they be in contra-opinion to their dictator. Ask Solzhenitsyn, Pasternak or Trotsky!
DrAvrington 1 year ago
@DrAvrington "political correctness", coined in 1929 by Joseph Stalin"
Oh shut up you clown, it can be found in 18C texts.
BNPification 1 year ago
@BNPification Communism and like pseudo-intellectual philosophies had been around long before the 18th century however in 1929 Joseph Stalin coined the term for control and guidance over the Communist International's propaganda efforts within the various foreign non-Socialist countries of operation. Regards, SRA.
DrAvrington 1 year ago
@DrAvrington "Communism and like pseudo-intellectual philosophies had been around long before the 18th century"
Irrelevant garbage, the term PC was originally used in text as literally termed, to be politically correct in your thinking rather than any left rhetoric.
BNPification 1 year ago
@DrAvrington "Joseph Stalin coined the term for control and guidance over the Communist"
Stop backtracking, you're now debating Stalin origins of PC, rather than the origins of political correctness itself as previously stated. PC under Stalin had a different meaning to what you are pertaining to discuss anyway as it concerned political, social & ideological totalitarian consistency of the population i.e. control of the masses, not being PC would mean dissent of the state.
BNPification 1 year ago
@BNPification Stalin's PC over the control of the International and the ideology of self-censorship of the masses is exactly the same ideology with only differences being those having their free speech suppressed - for purely politically corrupt socialist schema. Please library cards are free.... PC is a socialist schema, Stalin was a Socialist....Logically a Socialist would follow and "improve" on Socialist doctrine.
DrAvrington 1 year ago
@DrAvrington "Stalin's PC over the control of the International and the ideology of self-censorship of the masses is exactly the same ideology"
Stating Stalin was corrupt doesn’t qualify as erudite. You claimed Stalin coined political correctness to debase the term PC, you were wrong and have posted irrelevant nonsense since.
BNPification 1 year ago
@BNPification Although, although in my politically in-correct opinion your attacks indicate a supine mind. You should not attack my position however, refer to historian Arthur Herman's work "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator" although M. Stanton Evans' "Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies" is much more worthy in my opinion. Happy reading....SRA
DrAvrington 1 year ago
Murray is part of the British marxist and increasingly islamist regime and runs a government funded think tank on 'social cohesion' Here is trying to co-opt the EDL for the one party self-declared 'communitarian' and 'progressive' state which is deligitimising Israel. It's foreign secretary William Hague called for "Peaceful resistance to Israel.". He is attempting to side-line the nationalists who support Israel but who are currently poorly led. The EDL will not fall into this trap.
edlpirateradio 1 year ago
douglas said something brilliant on one show - i think it was question time - or maybe not he said that people should not be scared to speak out and to do it cos it emboldens others to speak out against the overbreeding parasitical type of islam
there are too fucking many of them
timewilltell7 1 year ago
does this mean Douglas Murrays facebook relationship with the EDL read "It's Complicated"?
rah33ls99 1 year ago
errrr yeah, I think I agree...
MrLittletomdj 1 year ago
EDL was never going to be a quick fix, but our massive growing membership, and focus on the mission has gained alot of attension & support.
We was lied about and called nazi's... then we showed a massive jewish following world wide.
We was lied about and called racist... then black & asian members joined and spoke up for us.
We was called anti-asian... then sihk's, hindu's decended from asia joined us.
The EDL may be rough around the edges but we stand up for what is right...
E-E-EDL
diamondgeezeredl 1 year ago
@diamondgeezeredl The trouble is, it's that "rough around the edges" look that will forever stop the EDL from achieving national credibility, as there are too many people who dislike that image. Bizarrely, although the BNP are awful, their leader Nick Griffin was actually smart enough to realise that the party needed a smartly-dressed, more well-spoken leader. Their problem was that their racism was obvious. The EDL aren't racist, but do need to change their appearance to appeal more.
DancinJim 1 year ago
Stop taking the contraceptives your gov gives you.......they just seem to want to get rid of you! Look to the Pope rather that your gov.....who are trying to get rid of you. CATHOLIC STATE for the future please!!
amaqula 1 year ago
@amaqula Fuck off you extremist bitch, not got a husband you could be fucking?
truthseeker9577 1 year ago
@truthseeker9577
Oh.....so you want people to continue behaving in a depraved but sterile fashion. Why?! Do you want to get rid of them like the gov does?! All the more reason to reject the contraceptive sweeties that the powers that be hand out like smarties folks. There is an evil agenda at work here. CATHOLIC STATE please!!
amaqula 1 year ago
EDL needs to stay and needs to grow , We know what the problem is and EDL should nit stop until it is complete , no half measures ,
It says it in the title.English Defence League.
This is the same for all country's .
We all work together because the politicians are out of touch with the rest of human life.
They need to be put back in track.NSE
thenosurrender09 1 year ago 2
Good on you mate!
LeighTheGenius 1 year ago
They need to stop blowing hot air here and start tackling the problem...then there WONT be a need for the EDL who want our country and its children safe and free from the dangers radical islam.....but me thinks fat chance of that.
demibrookes1 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
demibrookes1 1 year ago