Greg Boyd: Jesus, Caesar's Coin, and Government

[bajojohn]

Greg isn't saying that we shouldn't submit to the government, but we should not be loyal to it. If the government is doing the right thing, that is wonderful, but when it is doing the wrong thing, we will not comply. We should not just oppose the government because it's the government. Romans 12 and 13 basically says if your going to be persecuted by the law, be persecuted because you are doing the right thing, not the wrong thing (because you will deserve it then).

[musicappreciate]

In the Bible, we have David the warrior, and Solomon the man of peace. They had different roles to fill in God's redemptive plan, but the same Lord. Christians are wired differently by God, and some will just never be military or government employee material.

Personally, I've come to see myself with them.

[FBCWillowsPastor]

We aren't called to a dual allegiance. But we are called to submit to Ceasar and to any government we find ourselves under as part of our allegiance to Christ. Rom 13:1-7 makes it clear. The governing authorities are God's servants (whether they recognize this or live up to it or not). When we submit to Ceasar we are submitting to God. The only time we are permitted to reject governmental authority is when submission to that authority puts us in direct violation of God's explicit will.

[newcamper]

@FBCWillowsPastor There are two types of sins: Those of comission where someone willfully transgresses; and those of omission where someone neglects to do something they should. James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." What's the point of this? There has to be a distinct line where believers collectively put their feet down to any man made "authority."

[newcamper]

@FBCWillowsPastor What I gather from your statement is that this line exists only where submitting to an authority puts us in direct violation of God's explicit will. Tell me then, were individuals active in smuggling stolen slaves north; concealing people that National Socialsim deemed trash; or those many more millions destined for the gulag in anyway guilty of rejecting this authority of which you speak?

[newcamper]

@FBCWillowsPastor Is it wrong for us to willfully pay taxes because someone can argue it is required biblically? even though these tax dollars will be used to finance the greatest holocaust this earth has ever seen? namely, the murder of defenceless babies trapped in the womb. Or can I for a pitance, take my neighbors land for my drive? Putting a uniform or flag on a bully, doesn't make his robbery, murder and debauchery magically "ordained" and worthy of a Christians submission.

[musicappreciate]

Hermeneutics are screwed up. It's just as egregious as "America first" theology. Paul played his Roman citizenship card to get out of beatings. And God didn't fault him. Submission to authorities is one sphere of submission to God. We are to acknowledge heavenly citizenship without thumbing our noses at Caesar. The tone suggests a fleshly  oppositionalism.

[bajojohn]

@musicappreciate Greg isn't telling us to renounce our citizenship, just live like we don't belong here. Paul used his Roman citizenship to appeal to Caesar and continue preaching the gospel not to get out of beatings. I would liken it to using our citizenship to visit another country to preach the gospel. For Paul and I think Greg, citizenship is a tool for the gospel, not our right.

[donaleah53]

Excellent! Sincere disciples will understand but others will reject this Truth, and the man who speaks it.

[caucazhin]

then get of your 501C3 and quit kissing ceasars ass ! ! !